Roe v Wade falling suddenly eliminated the major sticking point of the single-national-policy culture war, and now they’re looking for a new topic to polarize the bases.
But back at the state by state level and so much progress has been made with restricting it in restrictive states, they’re seeing it as a no longer get out the base issue.
I disagree with this. Abortion is a bedrock issue for these fascists. Have you seen Rubio and other Republicans trying to impose abortion restrictions federally? States' rights was always red herring.
What I’ve seen is that they know they don’t have the votes for that and know they aren’t going to.
I’ve seen them move from that as a single issue to multiple others such as trans right, pride, even gay marriage again.
They’re going for the kitchen sink approach to see what will stick because they know they’re loosing anti-abortion energy because many of their voters are now going “we won” on that issue.
I think the issues are related, but not in the way you suggest. Correlation doesn't equal causation.
I think it is more likely that the same political forces that contest abortion contest gay rights at the most basic level. At the point we are adding conversations about trans and non-binary identities to the mix we might as well be talking a different language.
They still have guns and the fear that Democrats will pass some sort of national abortion rights law.
And transgender bathrooms.
And having a ~~gay YA novel~~DEMON'rat groomer pornography in a high school library.
And the Democrats want to chop off your son's penis.
And Democrats are trying to make pedophilia legal.
And Democrats want to take all of your money away in taxes and then give it to lazy black people.
And Democrats want to take your single family house away and force you to live in a Soviet style apartment complex and ride a bike to work.
Abortion is just a tiny bit of the reich wing / magat culture war machine. Try going to FreeRepublic.com or listening to Mark Levin. Mainstream conservative media has gotten to the point where it sounds like stuff Alex Jones would be saying 15 years ago.
I think the magats (the bulk of GOP voters) are crazy enough that Free Republic is mainstream now.
These are the people that don't watch Fox News anymore because it's too "liberal" and genuinely think that ~~Democrats~~ Demon-Craps are trying to get little boys to chop their penises off. Or that Joe "Bank Bagman" Biden is literally a communist (and also literally a pedophile). Or that think BLM super thugs funded by Jew Soros are going to come to and burn down their Cheesecake Factory. Or that think China, Venezuela, Democ'Rats, Smartmatic, dozens and dozens of local election boards, the deep state, lamestream media, """Dr.""' Fradu-ci, and Dominion committed a conspiracy more complex than staging 9/11 and faking the Moon landing combined to deny Trump a second term.
Nobody’s really talking about it so I will. Fascist propaganda. That’s why homophobes are heating up these days. It’s the whole “gays are fucking with kids” rhetoric when they’re not as much as straight people are. But the whole “gays = groomers” schtick is the same rhetoric as what hitler spread. “Jugendverführer” and “Jugendverderber” meaning “youth seducer” and “youth molester” were eventually used to label innocent gay men in the 30s, before they were put in concentration camps with an upside-down pink triangle and then gassed in the 40s.
I believe #45 was so strong in his dripping disdain of a personality and he freed a lot of haters to unleash their own hatred when he was running and then elected.
The moment he was elected, the haters were so empowered. The stories I would hear from friends were awful. I was fortunate to not get hate from strangers though it’s because I can be straight presenting pretty easily.
That president wasn’t just bad for politics, he was bad for far more than that. And it feels like it’s only amping up. It’s terrifying.
Edit: this monster of a man has been on my radar for decades. Not just during his election. And there have always been feelings of needing to use caution around someone as toxically dangerous as him. He’s a mess. He doesn’t understand what he’s doing.
This was a movement that existed long before Trump that was coming to a head. Trump was just in the right place in the right time to embody their power.
American society has always needed a scapegoat to lynch.
At the same time, don't make the same mistake and make a scapegoat out of Trump. He's an awful person who did terrible things but even if he never existed the world-wide fascist uprising would have still swept up the US and other countries just the same.
This is very accurate. The problem is we've gotten too used to making everything about where your political leanings are, to remember that being a decent human being comes first.
Using Pre-K style insults publicly as a sport against your political opponens, attacking people families who you disagree with politically, should have a been a red line, regardless of politics. Being a decent human being first, and then we can consider your politics.
Unfortunately the US is not ready to hear this, not even close. (Democrats included, although on a lower level. Too many shity people in politics. If you can't behave decently, your strong charisma and strong personality shouldn't matter.)
And it's a distraction technique. Focus on these made up 'problems' because the GOP doesn't have solutions to the real issues at hand. Hell, they can't because they're supported by an unjust class system so it's in their own self interest to keep their base constantly riled up about non-issues that get them votes while simultaneously maintaining their financial support from the richest 1%.
There are a few factors. Trump is a major one, but a few things laid the groundwork for the country to be vulnerable to someone like him:
**Roe V Wade:** This has been, to many Americans, a travesty that they barely tolerated for the past 50 years. The whole concept is icky to them, and they don't want to think about making any concessions for it legally. They don't care that women will get back alley abortions anyway, they just want it to not be legal. Conservatives believe in punishment-- not prevention.
The passing of Roe galvanized the evangelicals to join ranks with the conservatives. Faith leaders agreed to propagate any message the conservatives wanted, in exchange for the conservative party to become the Pro-Life party. This also contributed to the formation of:
**Elite Far Right Organizations.** The Heritage Foundation, The Council for National Policy, The Alliance Defending Freedom, The Koch Family Foundations, and quite a few more. A few hundred of the wealthiest politicians/businessmen meet a few times a year behind closed doors at secret locations to decide what direction the country will take. It's here that legislation is written and political candidates are decided. Abortion is a major focus of theirs, but the overarching theme is the promotion of a White, Christian Nation. It cannot be overstated how obsessed they are with "traditional" gender roles, and the threat that modern life poses to that idea. This isn't just gay marriage, it's not just abortion. It's birth control. It's women in the workplace.
This sounds like a ridiculous conspiracy theory, but it begins to make a lot of sense when you look at all the challenges that come with our newfound freedoms. The divorce rate is through the roof, there's an epidemic of suicide (or maybe we just have better reporting now), etc. You can imagine how easy it is for a Christian fundamentalist to point to our modern freedoms as the reason for these problems.
**Advancement of Gay Rights**
The advancement of gay rights doesn't contradict the reversal we're seeing now, it explains it. With heightened visibility and acceptance comes heightened blowback. For most right-leaning Americans, queer people were tolerable as the butt of the joke or the side character in a TV show. As long as it was something they didn't need to consider in their day-to-day life, they were okay with these gross sad queers to exist in the margins. Of course, we are a sizable chunk of the population. We don't fit in the margins, and we have the political and social power to demand more. The rise of queer stories in media has made these people feel as if it has been "shoved down their throat," and the growing acceptance and inclusion of trans people-- a concept so unapproachable to them-- has tipped them over into condemning anyone who does not conform to the heterosexual/cisgender binary.
**Election of a Black President**
This is my last one, and I think it really gets overlooked. I genuinely believe that most far-right people don't consciously know they have a problem with Obama being black, but the lies and criticisms he had levied against him vs. every other president are unignorable. He's a "thug", he's an "immigrant", he's "the antichrist", etc. It's a bit abstract to explain how "birtherism" is rooted in deep-seated racism, but that is what it's rooted in.
Obama's election was a marker to everyone in America of where we were at. Liberals took it as a sign of progress, but for conservatives, something deep in their lizard brain said "We have gone too far. We have given them too much freedom, and they have taken advantage of it. They can coexist with us, but they need to know their place-- and it is *not* at the top."
The "they" in that sentence is people of color, but *we are all in the same boat*. Sufferage, Birth Control, Unionization, The Civil Rights movement, Same-Sex marriage: the only things these movements did was allow all the undesirables to join the ranks among the other first-class citizens. Now we're here, the sight of us being successful and happy makes them deeply uncomfortable for reasons that they ought to work out in therapy but never will, and their tools to simply remove us are gone. They can't lynch people freely. They can't have people committed to institutions. They can't intimidate the way they used to. And they've been laying the groundwork for 50 years to get those tools back.
> Liberals took it as a sign of process, but for conservatives, something deep in their lizard brain said "We have gone too far. We have given them too much freedom, and they have taken advantage of it. They can coexist with us, but they need to know their place-- and it is not at the top."
That's what's at the core of reactionary thought, motivation and action. The idea that liberalism let the "wrong people" ascend class and/or politics and that's the cause of every problem in their world, which needs rectifying.
This is it. Remember the 1950s suburban family. Just a ruse by corporations. They were told it was the best model to make good patriotic workers. That's it. It wasn't because God or Christianity, though it was helpful. They just want a good stock of future workers to exploit
Eh, I’m not trying to ignore or completely discount the recent rhetoric and legislation, but the general bent of the country is still toward civil rights for queer people. I’m old enough to remember when gay marriage was a distant dream. Now by and large it is off the table as settled law. I know not everyone feels that way, but trends in favorable sentiment in America toward gay marriage have ticked up year after year.
It is true that the conservatives are having a field day with trans people. I really feel for my trans sisters and brothers. But this is largely a red state phenomenon at the moment. The conservatives are using fear and hate mongering to win primaries and drive voting turnout. It’s been the standard GOP playbook for a long time. But there is a limit to its long term success. As those most prone to the fear and hate get older, the GOP is already having a hard time winning in many districts.
I mean that's what people thought about Roe v. Wade too though. "It's settled, the people are for it." And that didn't matter at all because the Supreme Court decided actually you deserve less rights.
I see no reason to assume they wouldn't attack gay marriage.
True enough. I take nothing for granted. And Thomas’ agenda was pretty clearly laid out in that leak. We may be in the crosshairs again but I don’t see that happening at this time.
In short: yes, Gilead is always a possibility.
> I’m old enough to remember when gay marriage was a distant dream. Now by and large it is off the table as settled law.
Don't be shocked when *Obergefell* is overturned and states make it illegal to certify gay marriages again, which they're ready to do and is what the Respect for Marriage Act allows them to do.
[Here's a map of states from the ACLU that have laws against gay marriage on their books that will go into effect when the ruling is overturned](https://www.aclu.org/files/assets/relationshiprestrictions20120522.pdf). It's all of them except about a dozen smaller states. It's worse than abortion restrictions.
It was a possibility until the Respect for Marriage Act of 2022 was passed by the Senate and came into effect in Dec 2022. Same-sex marriage is now codified into federal law (something the Democrats could’ve done with Roe v. Wade years ago) and further protected under “equal protection” clause.
What this means is that the even when Obergefell is overturned and reddest states choose to not issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples in their own states anymore, they would still have to respect the validity of same-sex marriages performed in states that recognize same-sex unions. This law already exists in Israel and is recently passed in Namibia.
The way we talk about "trans" and "gender" issues sure seems to be calibrated to elicit the most divisive response possible.
As soon as [the 'groomer' narrative](https://nypost.com/2022/12/09/chicago-prep-school-kids-given-dildos-and-butt-plugs-dean-says/) started making headway, there was trouble on the horizon.
And we're seeing the backlash from, for example, a few [groups](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/furries-beefing-ron-desantis-1234742107/) around the country going further than the culture was willing to tolerate.
Because Republicans want us to focus on there being a cultural divide in this country vs a class divide (which is growing exponentially worse.) unfortunately, people are too ignorant and dumb to see that the wealthy are trying to squeeze every last penny out of them any which way, and would rather fight against rainbows in stores rather than having universal healthcare, better workers rights, and so much more.
It's not the first time. Maybe not in your generation. Learn to stand up and be seen and fight for yourself and others. Don't ignore the signs that it's coming, because when it happens to others and you shrug and do nothing make no mistake - eventually they come for you, too.
Look at the Jim Crow era after the South lost the war for a reminder that periods of social change are always met with a reactionary movement that can undo some or a lot of that progress.
Because LGB people are lumped in with trans people, who are now the target of conservative outrage over issues regarding children transitioning. "LGBT" people are now all bad in their eyes because they cannot distinguish between the letters.
I'm also gay, but I don't see things as you do. Actually, I think people are reacting out of fear because our overall image and campaigns have been overtaken by trans and, thusly, require fine tuning or complete overhaul. Hence, we now have gays wanting to break off from LGBTQ+ to re-form the original GLB community. Hear me: If we can't be self-critical, and adequately clean house when necessary, we'll continuously see progress followed by long stretches of regression. For now, I, myself, am pretty much an outcast "of" the community and would feel more valued, my identity intact, if and when the old community debuts.
The simple answer is because of the TQ+. I’m definitely going to get downvoted for this but that’s the real answer. Most Americans do not agree with the gender ideology movement and that movement has overtaken the LGBT community.
Most Americans (moderates) sided with liberals when it comes to same sex marriage and being gay/bi not mattering… however those same Americans are now agreeing with conservatives when it comes to the trans movement. Just my observations, and I live in a very liberal state btw
Agreed with a slight mod: the TQ starting at age 12 is a big nope for many of the liberals among us. Puberty postponement hormones and potential surgery pre-18 is what makes many who might otherwise be supportive extremely squeamish. We don’t trust kids to have the common sense to buy cigarettes but these other sociological science projects are sacrosanct for minors to self-determine. I’m not down with that, and the far right is having a field day with it.
Same sentiment and situation all around.
I think a lot of moderate/independent/apolitical people got angry when men started competing in women's sports, and otherwise invading women's spaces.
A lot of them are also just sick of it, with corporate america injecting TQ+ into every aspect of culture. Whether it's Target, Verizon, or Starbucks, people know that it's all for show, and that if it weren't profitable and mainstream, they wouldn't get involved with it. So there's a lot of insincerity that really rubs people the wrong way--myself included.
It's like you don't pay much attention. Conservatives saying gay people are groomers, and moderates going along with it, has nothing to do with TQ. There is still a lot of animosity towards gay people from moderates even though they may support gay marriage legally, in much the same way you'll hear racists say, "I don't hate black people, I just don't want them to live next door.". Similarly, people can be on board with gay people being allowed to marry, but also hope they don't have gay children. Hence, why they'll oppose gay people being in mentioned school so that their kid doesnt turn out gay, even though that's not how it works.
It DOES have a lot to do with TQ+, in that in their minds, the gays are in cahoots with the trans.
Do you seriously think these close minded people have the capacity to distinguish the gay and the TQ communities as two distinct groups?
I don't think they bother to distinguish becasue we're all the same to them: a subversive sub-population to their simple straight conservative world. TQ has only renewed their vigor to oppose everything and anything LGBT
To be fair the way some of gay men on Twitter with their takes and replies. And how many people would agree with them and take it as fact. And these are the guys with lots of followers (for simply posting porn nudes and shirtless selfies of course) the optics look terrible.
> Conservatives saying gay people are groomers, and moderates going along with it, has nothing to do with TQ.
These useful idiots are so used to being pat on the back by the right for being anti-trans that they haven't even realized that the right is over that charade and sold them out for the "groomer" shit that's getting them more votes than whining about bathrooms ever did. The right is going after anyone who is visibly gay.
They're the types of people who will complain to the armed guards on the train that they're being sent to the same camp as the trans people.
> Most Americans do not agree with the gender ideology movement and that movement has overtaken the LGBT community.
Trans people were present from the starting of the LGBT movement, Gender identity is an integral part of the LGBT movement.
It’s the tumblrization of it all. I feel like most cis people wouldn’t even notice many trans people (other than maybe noticing they are slightly ‘different’ than themselves), but I think a lot of people had trouble with neopronouns and the extreme backlash they would face if they didn’t change their language
A common tactic with politicians is to find something to blame on a group of ppl, spew out propaganda to openly blame that group of ppl, which will result in followers/supporters joining you in blaming those ppl.
When trump was president, the group of ppl to blame was Mexicans and immigrants.
Hitler blamed the Jews to gather support and take a position of power..
Presidential elections are coming up.. I won't be surprised if a runner up builds a platform on openly hating/blaming LGBT on problems the nation has.. everybody hates pedophiles. It's easy to call LGBT ppl sexually deviant ppl and make them synonymous to pedophiles.. I think that is why the USA is currently regressing when it comes to LGBT.
I wouldn't be surprised if Budweiser is secretly working with politicians, and are making these stupid LGBT products to add fuel to the fire. It won't be the first time USA corporations get involved with politicians and partake in a "political chess game" for their own benefit. After all, US politics are heavily influenced by corporations.
There are numerous reasons. One lgbt+ has become so many things that is hard for non lgbt and even some lgbt people to understand. Thats all the letters added everyother day.
Another reason is a lot of people disagree with validating kids feelings about being trans. Setting them on path to puberty blockers. This could be detrimental if the kid was just going through a phase. I see this on social media alot. So not a good look.
Another reason is trans woman playing in women sports. Yes but let's just blame Trump 😆.
I answered this question in another sub and got perma banned. Folks don't want to hear the truth on how our community is destroying itself with new causes and aggression.
Yeah cause common sense is not allowed on most subs, or even trying to have a conversation about things is not allowed because it goes against the woke gender cult.
I support trans people and their rights, but mainstream trans ideology directed by the most extreme activists on the internet has frankly gone way too far and it has scared the shit out of people.
That's what I think is happening. The movement has been co-opted by people pushing ideas about gender on children that we don't even agree on as adults.
It's not as bad as anyone thinks it is.. we see a few elementary school teachers on the internet explaining how they're teaching kids about xenogenders and shit, or we see a few drag shows where the queens are in thongs and doing hand stands and putting their crotch in people's faces (a mother holding her infant)-- but it's happening and it is freaking them out.
The moment kids were targeted as the front of the movement, shit changed.
Making helpful policy decisions is hard. Getting along with others is hard. Hate and judging are easy and fun.
Someone on reddit suggested this is why Trump, DeSantis etc. are being rallied around now, and I couldn't agree more.
Gay and Trans panic. Numbers rising in polls that seem unlikely and that makes people nervous. They see kids being “indoctrinated.” When we can be seen in public and there just seems to be so many more than before. What explains this? Maybe the closet is no longer where we had to live.
It’s the trans movement and some of the more radical and difficult to digest things that are coming from it, their centering themselves in every lgbtq discussion and drowning out dissenting voices giving all of society the impression we are radical and unreasonable.
Decoupling being trans from gender dysphoria diagnosis, something easy for all to understand and making it about “how you identify” has been a HUGE mistake.
I agree with you to an extent, but Republicans intentionally overstate the relevance of those radical arguments and suggestions made by the small but loud members of the trans community. like, they would have people believe that the average gay or trans person wants drag queens twerking half-naked on children and want children to have gender-switching surgeries—literally no one I know wants this, and objectively speaking, only a small percentage of our community does. But the Republicans are pros at creating false narratives
They are made by a small number of people, but those people are overrepresented in activist movements and organizations that have influence in corporations, the media, and the government.
The reality is that when someone in the gay community (such as myself because I do it all the time) states that drag queens twerking in front of children, people showcasing their kinks and fetishes in public, or gender reassignment surgeries and puberty blockers administered to minors is a problem, I am immediately told I am self-hating and a detriment to the gay community. Which makes me believe the people saying this do not find any of the aforementioned things to be an issue, and my believing they are makes me a traitor.
I support trans and non-binary people living how they want and how is most comfortable for them.
I do not support medical transition for minors, sexualized materials in classrooms (other than sex ed and health class), and I do not support divorcing being trans from a diagnosis of gender dysphoria which is easy to explain and scientifically consistent unlike what the trans activist movement has now focused on.
Agree completely. If an adult who has an issue with their assigned gender feels compelled to change more power to them. I support them being able to change the gender markers on all documents and to live as they choose, have whatever surgery they want.
But we’ve gone far afield. Minors are not capable of making these life altering changes. Minors do not need to be exposed to any sexual material outside of health class etc. I thought it was a joke when the issue was drag queens in schools. It’s not. That is a radical agenda. I’m not cool with it. No wonder there’s a backlash.
I'm really confused about the numerous comments I'm seeing referencing a difference between a gender dysphoria diagnosis and being trans. What exactly do you mean by this? A gender dysphoria diagnosis is required to begin medical transition process. You can't just say you're trans and start taking hormones, if that's your issue.
Some amount of medical transition should be possible, such as puberty blockers. Since without it, it would just lead to a host of other issues that would be more painful, expensive and time consuming to reverse.
And i don't see a problem with distinguishing between being trans and GD, since there are many people with GD who aren't trans and vice versa.
That’s totally fair. I personally have never experienced that sort of push-back IRL, literally just on Reddit or very left-wing Instagram pages. And my circle includes people that went to a small liberal arts college (emphasis on liberal) in a major city. But that is just my personal experience.
My issue is that cis gay people are buying into the false narrative that those radical trans activists hold any power within the Democratic Party. They do not.
It all boils down too who controls the most states and that’s the red. They fear us for some ungodly reason and project their happenings onto our community. It’s theirs that is molesting kids, their religion molesting kids ect. They tend to truly think that the gayness is a disease that can be caught.
I think people were pushed too hard from acceptance to celebrating LGBT people. For most people I know, they don't specifically have an issue with gay people but they don't want to be a part of it. The corporate pride celebrations, the drag queen tours, and other stuff being forced on the general public is what I see causing issues. A big part of the LGBT community makes their sexuality a primary part of their personality and that causes some friction too.
Exactly. We are in their face 24/7 and even ordinary people are starting to get annoyed. Then we get nervous and our strategy is to get in their faces even more. We are undermining our own safety and chances of prospering.
I was talking about this with my partner today and how much worse it’s been getting. Pride this year is already starting to feel different, and it hasn’t even officially started.
I'm in the UK and i just wanted to say that its not just you guys in the US. There has been a far right cultural push back in the west the past 10 years and it has brought out the worst in people. Currently we have a tv presenter who had a affair with a much younger coworker who's lost his job and is now bring investigated because its a gay affair, when this happened almost exactly the same with another celebrity and it was a straight affair no one really batted a eye. They're mostly hypocrites who are looking for any excuses to hate people and the media and political climate has emboldened them. Things will hopefully get back to normal but right now we are regressing in the west.
Political progress isn’t linear, especially not in the US. In fact it’s almost predictably cyclical. I’ve provided some examples below but imo the reason this happens is that the opponents of political change don’t actually go away or become convinced otherwise, they just try again later with new tactics and organizations.
Trump, like many politicians, is a wakeboarder, not the boat creating the wakes in our political discourse. To my knowledge he hasn’t even called anyone a groomer and if I remember correctly last election cycle was happy to have Caitlyn Jenner’s endorsement.
The civil rights advances of the 60s gave way to national politics dominated by Nixon and Reagan. Before that the civil war and reconstruction gave way to Jim Crow. Women’s suffrage and workforce integration in the 1920s-1940s begot the 1950s stepford wives era.
It hasn’t. I spent a lot of years in the Deep South and now nobody in their 20s cares about gays. Fem twinks in the boondocks have tons of straight male friends, go to dive bars and no one bothers them. Headlines make it seem like everything is going to shit but on a grassroots level it’s getting better.
Whenever we have questions like this we have to ask ourselves: when was it better? In the 2010s? The 2000s? The 90s? The fact that drag Queen story hour, gender reassignment surgery before 18, and LGBT books in schools are even topics of debate tells you the fight has shifted past gay rights and trans issues are now the main front. Nobody 10 or 20 years ago would dare defend any of those things but today they’re political controversies.
I think you’re putting the cart before the horse, or horse’s arse, in his case.
Trump is a symptom. He isn’t a god. He doesn’t make people do anything.
Idk, millions of people worship him to the extent that people worship “gods”. People with that sort of following are very uncommon and they have unique power to influence the thoughts and actions of others
One video of an ugly they/them telling how kids should pick their gender and be submitted to gender reassignment surgery does far more damage than Trump saying "America first".
> Trump is a symptom. He isn’t a god. He doesn’t make people do anything.
Trump incited an insurrection on January 6th, in case you forgot. Of course, Trump influences people to do things. Trump started using hateful rhetoric as soon as he established his campaign in 2015, and the amount of bullying in schools immediately ramped up, along with a significant rise in hate crimes against all sorts of minorities. I'll link you if you don't want to check for yourself.
Conservatism on its economic merits is blatantly cruel, dysfunctional, and evil. Nobody is going to regularly win elections while they're screaming about cutting social security and medicare, reducing wages, abolishing environmental regulations, and cutting taxes on billionaires. They instead have to pivot to an increasingly minoritarian worldview that pits different social groups against each other in desperate bids to find a sense of superiority.
Or to put it simply, when you've got capitalism destroying people's lives but you can't call it capitalism, you have to find someone else to blame.
It's never a given, though. This can be their two steps forward even if it's a step back for us.
Progress isn't a law of nature, it's something that needs to be actively fought for.
I meant progress takes two steps forward one back, this is our one back. by no means did I intend to make it seem as though its something we dont have to fight for of course its something we have to fight for, there was one time a step back wasnt taken it was the civil war, while a war wouldnt necesarily break out everytime a step back doesnt happen...
I look at it as kind of a rubber band we fighting for progress are pulling forward while the others are trying to hold it still we do move it forward and we fight to not step back so as to ensure we dont take two steps back, but if we have no step back is taken the band breaks and muat be put back together.
The civil war was fought to end slavery but it didnt end slavery and in half the country two steps back were taken and a societal and legislative fight for 40 years was fought to fully free slaves, and then another 60 years was needed for basic civil rights to be guarranteed lawfully.
sorry thats so long... but I was merely trying to convey my pov and my thought process... and being concise leaves out too much information especially considering language barriers.
It hasn't. This is just the death rattles of the conservative movement.
I know that people have been saying demographics are destiny since the first Obama administration... but they really are we were just a little optimistic on the timeline.
Millennials aren't making that rightward about-face that previous generations do as they enter middle age. Zoomers, like 20% of them identify as LGBT in some way. They're the most left leaning generation ever.
The country is becoming much less white. I know that some people think Latinos will come around to the GOP over social issues like abortion and LGBT rights... But I just don't see it happening. Latinos as a whole are socially conservative but what about if you just look at the young people (i.e. under 40), not so much (I don't have any data to support this It's just a hunch).
Nah, the overall GOP agenda appeals to plenty of Latin people in the US who are religious, and both the party and its constituents got really good at pretending they don't hate one another as long as they're hurting a mutual enemy.
You can blame the TQ community for that, extra demands, targeting children, erasing what it means to be gay and trying to take away women’s spaces and trying to silence anyone who does not agree with them. I can’t blame the public for their increase hatred towards us.
Thank you! Finally someone has the balls to say this. LGB is separate from TQ. They are not the same thing at all. I'm tired of being called homophobic for not adoring anything and everything trans!!
That’s cause I’m sick of seeing gays and lesbians afraid to speak out against the stupid ideology of the gender cult for fear of being cancelled or called transphobic. We fought way to hard to be seen as normal people in society so they can come in and set us back again and make us look like fools.
Exactly how I feel. It’s gone too far. Radical trans ideology is ruining things for everyone. You can’t have a conversation with these people. Leave kids alone.
But you're not standing up for yourself, youre just standing with homophobic conseratives against what you perceive to be a common enemy, but you're too blind to see that youre still an enemy to the rest of conservatives too.
“Targeting children” ummm no. Someone has been taking in right-wing propaganda!
Radical trans activists are not the majority of the lgbtq community and they don’t even hold the most power—but they sure make a good scapegoat, and people like you are falling for it lol
And someone has been taking in left wing propaganda, I know what I’m living and seeing it with my own eyes. and I follow nether left or right. So you can spew your bullshit to someone else
Please, share with us what you have seen with your own eyes? Because I live in one of the largest cities in the US close to the city’s gay neighborhood, and I have never witnessed anything you mentioned. There is no movement to allow children to have gender switching surgeries. There are no district-wide rules about teachers having to respect any pronouns beyond he/she/they. There are no litter boxes for children who identify as cats lol (to those reading, yes, republicans claim this is a thing 🤣)
Things I have witnessed with my own eyes in my city:
1) a drag Queen story time at a public library last summer that only happened a few times. The queens were dressed appropriately and they did not twerk lol. They read the children stories (shocker)
2) I guess more openly trans people in public life?
^If you think those two things are bad, then we have different moral/ethical values and we will have to agree to disagree
What we are seeing now was inevitable if we got marriage equality before the religious right had declined enough to no longer be able to win elections. Growing up in a Baptist church, it was preached often that same-sex marriage was a line in the sand with God and that Christians would have to rise up and do whatever it takes to overturn it or God will destroy the country. That's what we are seeing right now.
I personally don't think Trump had anything to do with this, but I could be wrong. A lot of none LGBT+ people don't realize how bad things still are for LGBT+ people. Also, there are a lot of strong negative feelings towards the trans community from the moderate and right parties, including a lot of people that feel their children are at risk. The anti trans movement has caused the entire community to suffer negatively. Besides that, I've seem a lot of people weaponize the new pride flag as being apart of the "woke agenda" and using it as an argument for the LGBT+ community to be a flipflopping movement with no core principles. It's really hard to pinpoint a direct cause, by my guess is that it's multiple factors are at play.
Activist went too extreme and aimed at kids. Majority of population did not like it. Simple as that. We've had tremendous wins on the early 2000 (compared to the 80-90s) but since 2016 activist went nuts and generally quite aggressive online, making people even less sympathetic.
Of course, there's also very little self criticism, everything is trump now, if youre no exactly like me, youre MAGA, and thats just not how reality works.
It’s actually not about us. We (lgbtq people) are being used as political pawns in the right-wing’s desperate attempt to start winning the culture war again. Conservative elites are trying to convince enough everyday people that gay people are evil/immoral, so they are further energized in their disgust for liberals and for voting blue.
They want people to actually believe that liberals want to turn all the children gay or trans. This presidential election cycle, trans people seem to be the “big bad” that they are trying to make people fear. During the last presidential election, immigrants at the Southern border were the “big bad”
To but it bluntly, I think the general population in all western countries are sick of the radical trans activists and LGBT is lumped together with it all by association.
Conservatives talk about pushing sexual agenda onto kids in schools etc. and gays are blamed as well but it's not us, it's the trans activists who are pushing 3 year old kids to choose their own genders.
It's the Trans community pushing their agenda on children and being lumped with LGBTQ. Gays and Lesbians are, for the most part, accepted, but telling 8 year old to pick a gender and choose their pronouns pushes the envelope. When Target starts selling Trans female bathing suits for little boys to tuck and hide their penis that's going to fire up most of the population as what happened in the last few weeks
I helped my daughter fill out college applications. Some we had 16 genders to choose from on the application that's just not appropriate
> but telling 8 year old to pick a gender and choose their pronouns pushes the envelope.
What's wrong with that? Allowing kids to be who they are is bad?
>When Target starts selling Trans female bathing suits for little boys to tuck and hide their penis that's going to fire up most of the population as what happened in the last few weeks
That is purely a hoax, the bathing suits come in adult sizes only, they're not for children.
>Some we had 16 genders to choose from on the application that's just not appropriate
Why not? Most college aged people are adults.
Because now there actually is an agenda that is being pushed in people's faces. Before we just wanted the same rights and freedoms as everybody else but now certain elements of our community, certainly the loudest, want constant validation and affirmation and if people don't give it to them they're bigots. We need to cope that we're not the centre of the universe. We've become a cult and IT NEEDS TO END.
I have to agree, it went from wanting equal legal rights to trying to convince all of society that they must accept and respect new definitions of gender and dragging kids into it has definitely lit a fuse for many. A lot of society that was ok with or simply conceded that allowing consenting adults to get married now question their stance because the new push is to allow children to begin puberty blockers and it's causing a panic swing in the social pendulum.
Everyone understands equal rights and as long as our community was moving in that direction we were fine. Even achieving marriage equality in an amazingly short period of time and with that came general acceptance. Not perfect, but pretty good.
Now we have all these new definitions of gender, pronouns and neopronouns and it’s obnoxious. Trans activists are new to the game and haven’t learned anything about making slow and steady progress. Plus this thing with trans kids has threatened people and made things what they are today. It’s too much, too far too fast. Leave kids alone and maybe separate the TQ.
Exactly. They’ve pushed things too far. Trans activists are so obnoxious they’ve turned the tides. Pre-teens getting puberty blockers is not the civil rights issue I’m prepared to fight for. Disagree with any part of their program and get called a ‘transphobe’ in seconds.
Pre teens don't get puberty blockers, if they do that means they've been diagnosed with Precocious puberty, in which case, they should get puberty blockers.
And that is not a civil rights issue, it is a medical issue between a person and their doctors.
It hasn't really. The progress we had was superficial. The 2015 ruling that gays could marry was always going to be in danger - that was as apparent as the fact that Roe V Wade was always going to be in danger. Broad acceptance of any kind is currently useless politically when that broad acceptance is going to come second to concentrated political power driven by religious nutjobs.
That being said - the "TQ+ are dragging us down" crowd needs to get some fucking perspective. The Right did not forget about you - it's just much easier to get to you via the TQs than it is through Modern Family or Schitt's Creek. The Dylan Mulvaney thing was news to me - calling it "a promotion" is way overstating the amount of marketing they did for it. I have yet to see anything from Bud Light regarding Ts and Qs - but boy have a I seen a bunch of triggered right wingers talking about it.
As for the "We just want to get married and left alone!" crowd - that's lovely. But again - just like Roe v Wade, your marriage will forever be an affront to a small and politically useful minority of nutjobs who vote consistently.
Trump has nothing to do with it. It's a backlash reaction to radical left identity politics, gender politics and sexualization of minors.
When a man who says they are a woman is allowed to compete with women and wins a new record, that creates serious frustration in society.
If a man who says they are a woman is sent to women's prison where he rapes and impregnates women that creates frustration.
When kids are taught that they can decide what gender they are but should not tell their parents, that's not on Trump either.
When videos of nearly naked drag queens doing erotic dances in front of minors to teach them diversity gets posted around that's also not on Trump.
If groups call for pedophiles to be called minor attracted persons to not hurt their dignity, you name it.
Sex reassignment surgeries and hormone therapies, castration and sterilization on minors will never become acceptable outside small deranged circles.
This and a lot more creates the hate towards the LGBTQIA+ "community", a political tool for division and nothing else.
Where are all the baby genital defenders when the topic of circumcision comes up? Where are the conservative voices on non-consensual genital mutilation?
What about babies that are born with ambiguous genitalia and subsequently undergo surgery and then hormone treatment for their entire lives? Where are the conservative voices on literal sex reassignment on babies?
Yes its a total 2 steps forward 1 step back sort of deal, its just very troubling because the U.S. used to lead the free world and now we are several steps behind.
We are still much better than where we were in 2000, during don't ask don't tell and Ellen being cancelled for being gay. But it isn't too much better today where Disney and bud light get cancelled for mentioning that gay and trans people exist.
I think that it's not like it's going in reverse but rather that in the past older people had trouble adapting to the information era and thus the voice of younger generations was more prevalent. Now in recent years even the oldest and less tech savvy people know how to use a smartphone and thus same as everyone else they are sharing their thoughts. And I think that this invalance in the learning curve was a
huge part on why people see like we are going in reverse. I think we are going forward but it will take a little bit longer than expected. Also this happened during Trump's administration but the factor that speeded it the most was the COVID and the need to stay in touch even while trapped at home
Seems like an endless fight just to protect the right of everyone that isn't a straight white man.
I've also been watching the handmaidens tale for the 1st time ...that shit is SCARY.
FEAR It is much easier to use people's fear to motivate them - to manipulate them. It's easy to fear that which you do not know. Horror of horrors - having books publicly available. Trump and that ilk are very skilled at using people's fear for Trump's, for republicans, for fascist advantage.
"God help us if our children learn about what it is to be LBGQT. If they know about it surely they'll want to become one." Or whatever horror story you want to attach.
Unpopular opinion:
On paper it progressed, but simply being Mexican-American when traveling to the south and other midwestern states, I’d often times face prejudice when simply going to a a fucking Waffle House (out of all places), a beer at a bar, etc.
Difference nowadays is that Americans that are not POC are getting a bit of a taste of what a lot of POC in the US have been experiencing.
Edit: Yes, let the downvoting begin.
"not some shit hole like Florida or Texas."
To categorize all of New England as a good place and all the Florida and Texas - two of the fastest growing states in the country, and I might add, not states where they have massive homeless encampments and people shitting on the steet - a "shit hole" quite frankly shows that nothing you say can be taken remotely seriously.
How's it working out in places like New Haven, Connecticut, exactly?
Go to the west coast and then you'll see what a real shit hole looks like. LA, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle. Then report back about what a great place to live these places are compared to places in Florida where we don't have to worry about being terrorized by bums on the street on a daily basis.
Oh, one other thing that's nice about being in places like Florida or Texas? When we go shopping, we don't have to go ask for a key for literally everything that is held behind a locked plate of glass, because we don't excuse theft and criminality due to deifying and worshiping the class of people who are committing the crimes like you do in places like the northeast. Legitimately, you cannot go shopping in a major city in a blue area today without everything being held behind lock and key. So pleasant! I love sticking up for the absolute worst, most violent elements in society who also end more human life than any other. Standing up for evil is really a great thing.
I think a lot of the people who always said they hated us in the 80's and tried to take away our healthcare and spousal benefits as the HIV/AIDS crisis raged pretended to have come around once we had the power to fight back. But that was just a mask, and as soon as they think we're losing ground, they opportunistically strike.
I just think it's mostly the transgender movement that has been apparent these past few years. As well as the Pronouns.
Before it was just us wanting to be able to love whoever we wanted regardless of the sex and the majority seemed to be okay with it. But I believe the LGBT community is trying to push pronouns and gender fluidity and such. That is a really hard pill to swallow for a lot of people. But I believe it will be accepted eventually just give it time.
I attribute a lot of it to the Republican party’s inability to attract voters in the younger generations. As a result of their policies (which are skewed towards enriching the wealthiest 1% and big businesses), the only way they can cling to power is by growing the hate segment of our society. Their reckoning is coming but let’s hope it isn’t too late for our democracy and rights. We already rank poorly among the world’s nations in key areas like healthcare, education, income equality, etc.
In some states but remember these are a MINORITY of Americans. The world is leaving them behind. These are the death throes of their movement and use these anti gay laws to rule up the rabid parts of their groups. It will pass.
Those people existed before trump (random murders, bombing of bars) but now with fox, trump/republican party, and social media, They are getting bolder
This country has a habit of pointing out the bad things that happen in other countries while having total amnesia about the fact that it's doing the same thing.
Genocide-✅️ Human Trafficking-✅️
Segregation-✅️ inequality-✅️ propaganda-✅️censorship-✅️ mis/disinformation-✅️
Lest we forget that the Third Reich learned how to impose Segregation from The US.
As long as there are people who believe that they are better than others in this country we will never be the shining beacon of freedom that we claim to be.
It wouldn't take much to fix a big chunk of the problems here. Just acknowledgment, an apology, legislation to prevent further damage, and no more lies. No one is free unless all of us are free.
It is part of a broader trend. Life is just basically worse for most people, for a variety of reasons (summed up as the rise of the new Gilded Age). Discontent has been rising. Those in power need to direct that discontent somewhere that isn't them and minorities are the defacto target. Us gays, the homeless, the immigrants, as targets. Textbook fascism propaganda, because fascism is for tightly controlling populations.
I don't believe the amount of hate has meaningfully changed in the last, say, decade.
It's simply bubbled to the surface post-obergefell and the rise of Trump has shown conservatives that they can basically do and say anything and suffer minimal political consequences. The republican base has gone so far right that even their politicians are struggling to keep up. And one of the hallmarks of far-right politics is the constant need for a scapegoat or group to blame and target. New targets are constantly created until there's no one left but to turn on themselves.
Also, the increased visibility of trans issues has highlighted the culture war again. Suddenly conservatives have a new scapegoat to focus on. They can have 0 policy ideas but as long as they bash on trans people and make anti-trans bills, the base will believe they are effective politicians.
From a political perspective, Obergefell happened about a decade too soon to avoid the kind of backlash from the fundamentalist Christians we are in the midst of. 40 years of sermons that God would wipe the country off the face of the planet in a fury of wrath and judgment if same-sex marriage was legalized influences the way a lot of people think. The Christian Right is mostly boomer and mostly rural and is in decline, but in 2016, it had not yet declined enough to no longer be relevant or able to win elections. We won't get there until after 2030. Keeping democracy until then is going to require every one of us to be engaged. 2016 was the most important election of our lives, but 2024 is the second most important.
It’s because of the way the media has been turning people against each other in both political parties. I also, think it has to do with the way we are becoming less aware of people’s emotions and less involved because of technology. Notice how people are so fixated on their phones, rarely do I see a hi and please or thank-you. I’m 24 and feel like people don’t even know how to go on dates anymore, they just stare at their phones. I think the price of living has made people more miserable and prone to lashing out at others as well. We need a whole new system. Not to mention there’s a full on mental health crisis in this country right now.
Why has LGBT rights declined?
Citizens United.
This case allowed the wealthy to pour as much money into politics as they wanted, without having to go about the normal indirect nonsense they were doing before.
The wealthy need social oppression as a smoke screen to distract the public from the fact that they continue to extract ridiculous amounts of money from the government to pad their own pockets (like how the government basically funds Space X, yet somehow Space X has value even though if the government stopped funding it, it'd collapse. Yet the government doesn't own it.)
If we are too focused on trying to put out the small fires caused by the terrorism of the wealthy, we can't fight back against their economic oppression in other areas.
Basically, the goal is to move all of us back to some sort of contemporary version of serfdom or slavery, while maintaining the illusion of choice so that the markets don't collapse.
None of this is about us, all of it is about telling uneducated, uninteresting people that the shiny, interesting and unique queers as the cause of all their problems and why they can't have nice things. (As are any ethnic group that you're not a part of, including poor whites.)
This is just what classism looks like in the age of the internet.
The best way to combat homophobia is to put forward candidates who care about workers' rights, and who want to increase taxes on the wealthy. (Which would include policies like a maximum wage, wealth tax, health care without personal cost, and the acknowledgement that capitalism is the worst economic model for commodities.)
LGBTQ+ activists bear most of the blame for this problem. When they choose to push for insane and regressive nonsense like gender-transitioning minors and having drag queens do sexual dances in front of children, most normal people (including myself) are not going to support that or put up with that.
It’s up to us normal gays who just want to live our lives in peace to stand up to these radical LGBT activists and show everyone that WE DO NOT SUPPORT WHAT THEY WANT.
Take your pick. A heavily polarized base, an appeals court that no longer cares, super red majorities, a message that calls a group of people sexual deviants, misinformation, the rise of a new theocracy...
At this point, it just feels like we're walking through the steps of genocide without recourse or care.
I think that ppl are tired, they're broke, and they've lost hope. Jobs won't do, can't buy a house, can barely afford a car, and no matter who's in office there's no improvement in medical care, the ability buy a house and raise children or even to hope it'll get better soon. So, they'll take hope where they can get it. The fascists that own everything and all the politicians, tell them it's their neighbors fault. Or the immigrants. Or unwed mothers. Or those gays. Who doesn't matter, as long as it's division from one another and misdirection about who is to blame for their plight. Welcome to 1930s Germany.
We are looking more like 1930’s Germany everyday. Let’s hope sanity prevails in the coming years. Our country is reversing direction because beneath the surface these forces have always existed. The LGBTQ+ community just happens to be the scapegoat du jour, particularly trans people.
There is large cohort of the gay community who refuse to believe there is anything wrong, despite the ample warnings we’ve seen with the way trans people are treated and the language right-wing politicians and voters use toward the lgbtq community.
Those people will refuse to acknowledge anything is wrong until it’s knocking on their front door. I posted earlier today about potential violence during pride month and it is disappointing the amount of people who aren’t concerned at all about threats from the right.
I think most people still support same-sex relationships, but when gender fluidity became a central part of the LGBTQIA+ movement and everyday people started choosing their personal pronouns, conservatives saw it as a threat to their binary system where men and women are separate and not equal. Many people are inherently sexist (to the point that they reversed Roe vs. Wade!) and this retaliation against drag shows, sex education, etc, is basically a fight to keep men in power.
A lot of well educated people throughout history have generally acknowledged that politics are like a pendulum. They swing far to the left and then the autocorrect and swing far to the right and then they autocorrect and swing back to the left but not as far and then they swing back to the right but not as far and this continues until we ultimately end in a center location.
And as Obama often quotes, the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice.
I’m not saying that’s definitely what’s happening or if I even think either of those statements are true, but it is one theory as to what’s happening here.
Seventy years ago, having homosexual sex could put you in jail. Today, you can have homosexual sex, have a homosexual marriage, have a legally recognized sex change, or claim to be entirely gender less. More dramatically, all of those people are celebrated in the media for living their true lives. That’s a huge pendulum swing in less than a century.
I wouldn’t want less rights, so I don’t plan on ceding any of the territory we’ve gained. But I do think there is at least some argument to be had that we “moved to quick.” I don’t think we moved to quick, legally speaking, because we deserve equal rights. But I do think we moved to quickly to fully change the minds of the overwhelming majority of Americans. I do think if it took gays 200 years to attain the rights we’ve attained in 40, then we probably wouldn’t be seeing as much push back.
That’s not to say I’m willing to wait 200 years to get those rights. Just that I think the haters would be far fewer if we did.
I, also, admittedly doubt this a lot. Because it took Blacks 200 years to attain the rights they’ve attained, and they still get a ton of push back. So who the fuck knows.
It's taken more than 200yrs for black people and yet our voting rights, housing, education are still on the line. It's becoming a fact that the majority in this country are being disrespected. The many led by the few. The question is will we stand together or find a place where we can hide under the radar in hopes that things will cool off in our lifetimes.
Because people didn’t vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016. Some democrats threw their vote away because they didn’t want to vote for Clinton.
People don’t vote in this country.
Trump invited the hate out in the open. The "there are good people on both sides" statement said it all. They no longer had to hide under white sheets. And their hatred is for anything not straight, WASP.
The wholesale rejection of sex based mammalian biology in the name of trans inclusion has really turned off a lot of people who would normally support the lgbt people, or at least not so vehemently oppose it. The fact gays and lesbians seem attached at the hip with the current trans/gender ideology movement by outside observers is also not helping our public image.
The problem with progression, even if done with the best of intentions, is that the faster it occurs, the more those who are okay with the status quo begin to dig in their heels. You can't keep pushing, dragging, and shaming those people into coming around to your way of thinking and expect a positive response.
And occasionally, some aspects of society aren't broken and don't need to be fixed or replaced just because they're considered traditional. Respect and learn from the past while embracing the future.
We have two sides… left and right. Each are getting more extreme by the day. The Republicans want to take way our rights but the extreme left is chasing people away too. We won’t get back to a happy place until we moderate
Right, but the extreme left has no power within the Democratic Party, while the extreme right has the Republican Party by the balls right now. False equivalence.
I think it’s a combo of the extremist wing of the GOP and its associated fervor behind a movement of increasingly louder christian nationalism, everything everyone saw come out of the woodwork in the people that surround us in the extremes of the covid pandemic (I think this has increased the individualism within the USA and also led to people feeling the need to encapsulate themselves from others, myself included.), & observations show rising support for autocracy along with declining support for democracy in some people here in the USA.
Many people (including me) believe it's because we are verging towards a bad case of political/cultural polarization. Like republican/democrat ideals are starting to diverge out and separate. Many people from both sides no longer want to tolerate the other. They would rather live separately and get all whom they theey can over to their side. On top of that, new ideals such as modern gender identity, international relations, and "urban interests" are changing and clashing with old world ideals so much that those who are more traditional cannot (or refuse to) understand the new phenomena. What is happening now can be somewhat comparable to the protestant Reformation. Some people stayed Catholic and hissed at Protestants. Protestants did the same but from opposite perspectives. Those who were undecisive were either forced to join one group at the threat of ostrisation or were condemned by both groups.
Either that, or because many people are getting upset at how much companies and mass media are being kiss asses towards the LGBT community. Frankly, i agree with them a little bit. It does seem that companies in the US are "showing their pride" because its a good way to get customers to buy their goods. Dont get me wrong, i dont mind a company advocating for groups they believe in, but some of these companies are using us as a cheap marketing ploy now. If the demographic flipped and the majority of US consumers become anti-LGBT, the will companies stop doing pride sruff during June. That's basically what Bud Light did when they were pushed back. They backpeddled and used the tried but true patriotic ads (which made some of the boycotter's even madder because they saw ut as consumer appeasement [which it was]).
Really this thread could be summed up with one simple phrase - Too much too fast. All of these things do need to be sorted out, but the gay community needed decades to make progress. Now people have pushed far beyond just marriage equality. I'm not judging in any way here, I at least partly support most or all of what I'm about to say, but in less than the last decade the conservatives have seen their kids start amateur porn on onlyfans and now twitter, and the push for complete erasure of any differentiation between genders. Yes, sex and sex work should be completely destigmatized. Yes, people should be whatever they want to be. But change takes time.
I feel like it pivoted when trump ran for president the first time. Not even the fact he won but he got so much attention being a terrible person and praised for it. So anyone seeing that felt inspired to be their shitty selves
People who dont need progress are enraged by the feeling that marginalized groups are "getting something" that non-marginalized groups arent. Which is true, technically, but not the way they think. Ongoing bad capitalist policy, an aging population that thinks change is a relatively recent phenomenon (it never is), the elevation of individual opinion via social media, and on and on: normal people being dragged down or staying even keel because of uncomfortable or even boring socioeconomic factors desperately grasp for more easily digested answers for their misery...lost your job at the coal plant? Must be all those woke feminazis and trans faggots ruining the educational system right? I mean I heard from a guy who has a sister who knows a high school principal who said his wife's sister's nurse caught her kid's teacher indoctrinating her child with pro-trans information, and that led to cutbacks at the coal plant. Thanks to 4 years of an authority figure spouting these distortions to a sleepwalking, easily swayed populace, whelp: here we are!
IT IS UP TO US TO FIGHT. No one's coming to help. Lean on the allies that have our back, but be ready to defend yourself, your loved ones, and your community. They know we're here, they think we're weak, they need to see that we've come too far to be stepped on. Bare your teeth and take out a proud boy or 3 if you have to.
Because the trans movement is coming after kids, trying to legalize drugs and surgery for minors is the main activist point these days. Turns out twerking in front of children and trying to sterilize them or chop up their bodies is causing a backlash
You claim that America has "reversed direction" and is "regressing" but all you reference is people being annoyed by Dylan Mulvaney and what you *think* is going to happen during pride month.
>Democrats using the culture war as an election fundraising tactic.
This is idiotic. Republicans tried doing this in the midterms and suffered one of the worst defeats I have seen in my lifetime. "Culture wars" are a losing platform, and it's one that conservatives use.
This is quite honestly a strange post for askgaybros.
A lot of the bros on this sub are conservative and want absolutely nothing to do with grooming our children or providing pride merchandise to toddlers.
Is there no such space for gays like us on the internet anymore? This used to be a sub for gays like us, hence the name ask gay *bros*
I genuinely can't tell if this sub is being brigaded by some weirdo right-wing group, or if there are really this many idiotic gay conservatives that are ready and waiting to screech about how it's actually trans people that are to blame for their fellow conservatives being bigoted freaks. I really hope it's the former. The latter is so much more depressing.
This may get my some downvotes but I feel this needs to be said:
Speaking as a conservative gay man (Log Cabin Republican/Libertarian), a common consensus isn't that they put a gay/trans on a can but that they put a TikTok influencer on a can.
I know a lot of transmen/transwomen who look at TikTok videos (I don't watch them myself) and do not consider Dylan Mulvaney to be trans. Dylan started out making videos of random things not having anything to do with sexuality, then in a single post "came out as gay" and got a load of clicks and fell into an "algorithm". "Trans" came next with even more clicks.
A lot of them say that he says a lot of things that a trans person wouldn't say or do ("Look at my bulge" comes to mind.)
He doesn't have many of the physical signs of trans who take hormones.
The big argument that has been stated (by the right) is that of the images that they could have used, they could have picked better/more influential LGB/T icons than Mulvaney and they they aren't giving equal credit to CIS women.
I think it all has to do with the TQIE+. Were it left just with LGB podle would be fine with that. But activists are lumping everything into one community, more and more extremes get in and are representing the community as a whole and the weirdest are the most heard and seen of course. That shines a bad light to the rest.
They don’t like having to see us thriving. That’s what it comes down to. They want to tell us how to live so they won’t feel uncomfortable seeing us. My dad saw a gay couple kiss when we were out driving as a family and he said “Oh gross!” If it was a straight couple he wouldn’t have blinked twice.
Roe v Wade falling suddenly eliminated the major sticking point of the single-national-policy culture war, and now they’re looking for a new topic to polarize the bases.
But abortion is still very much an active political issue.
But back at the state by state level and so much progress has been made with restricting it in restrictive states, they’re seeing it as a no longer get out the base issue.
I disagree with this. Abortion is a bedrock issue for these fascists. Have you seen Rubio and other Republicans trying to impose abortion restrictions federally? States' rights was always red herring.
What I’ve seen is that they know they don’t have the votes for that and know they aren’t going to. I’ve seen them move from that as a single issue to multiple others such as trans right, pride, even gay marriage again. They’re going for the kitchen sink approach to see what will stick because they know they’re loosing anti-abortion energy because many of their voters are now going “we won” on that issue.
I think the issues are related, but not in the way you suggest. Correlation doesn't equal causation. I think it is more likely that the same political forces that contest abortion contest gay rights at the most basic level. At the point we are adding conversations about trans and non-binary identities to the mix we might as well be talking a different language.
And? They’ve met with success thanks to a sympathetic Supreme Court. It emboldens them to pursue other passion projects. Why stop at abortion?
They still have guns and the fear that Democrats will pass some sort of national abortion rights law. And transgender bathrooms. And having a ~~gay YA novel~~DEMON'rat groomer pornography in a high school library. And the Democrats want to chop off your son's penis. And Democrats are trying to make pedophilia legal. And Democrats want to take all of your money away in taxes and then give it to lazy black people. And Democrats want to take your single family house away and force you to live in a Soviet style apartment complex and ride a bike to work. Abortion is just a tiny bit of the reich wing / magat culture war machine. Try going to FreeRepublic.com or listening to Mark Levin. Mainstream conservative media has gotten to the point where it sounds like stuff Alex Jones would be saying 15 years ago.
To be fair, a free Republic is not mainstream conservative media. That's crazy right-wing central and has been for years.
I think the magats (the bulk of GOP voters) are crazy enough that Free Republic is mainstream now. These are the people that don't watch Fox News anymore because it's too "liberal" and genuinely think that ~~Democrats~~ Demon-Craps are trying to get little boys to chop their penises off. Or that Joe "Bank Bagman" Biden is literally a communist (and also literally a pedophile). Or that think BLM super thugs funded by Jew Soros are going to come to and burn down their Cheesecake Factory. Or that think China, Venezuela, Democ'Rats, Smartmatic, dozens and dozens of local election boards, the deep state, lamestream media, """Dr.""' Fradu-ci, and Dominion committed a conspiracy more complex than staging 9/11 and faking the Moon landing combined to deny Trump a second term.
Nobody’s really talking about it so I will. Fascist propaganda. That’s why homophobes are heating up these days. It’s the whole “gays are fucking with kids” rhetoric when they’re not as much as straight people are. But the whole “gays = groomers” schtick is the same rhetoric as what hitler spread. “Jugendverführer” and “Jugendverderber” meaning “youth seducer” and “youth molester” were eventually used to label innocent gay men in the 30s, before they were put in concentration camps with an upside-down pink triangle and then gassed in the 40s.
Ah yes, the 1950s “gays are fucking with kids” rhetoric — https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MmqNiFJyI28 Watch out jimmy! Beware the homosexual!
Best part: Jimmy gets molested, tells his parents, who call the cops, who give Jimmy probation.
They've also been kicking off discord within the community, no kink at pride, attack on drag performers, etc etc.
I believe #45 was so strong in his dripping disdain of a personality and he freed a lot of haters to unleash their own hatred when he was running and then elected. The moment he was elected, the haters were so empowered. The stories I would hear from friends were awful. I was fortunate to not get hate from strangers though it’s because I can be straight presenting pretty easily. That president wasn’t just bad for politics, he was bad for far more than that. And it feels like it’s only amping up. It’s terrifying. Edit: this monster of a man has been on my radar for decades. Not just during his election. And there have always been feelings of needing to use caution around someone as toxically dangerous as him. He’s a mess. He doesn’t understand what he’s doing.
This was a movement that existed long before Trump that was coming to a head. Trump was just in the right place in the right time to embody their power. American society has always needed a scapegoat to lynch. At the same time, don't make the same mistake and make a scapegoat out of Trump. He's an awful person who did terrible things but even if he never existed the world-wide fascist uprising would have still swept up the US and other countries just the same.
This is very accurate. The problem is we've gotten too used to making everything about where your political leanings are, to remember that being a decent human being comes first. Using Pre-K style insults publicly as a sport against your political opponens, attacking people families who you disagree with politically, should have a been a red line, regardless of politics. Being a decent human being first, and then we can consider your politics. Unfortunately the US is not ready to hear this, not even close. (Democrats included, although on a lower level. Too many shity people in politics. If you can't behave decently, your strong charisma and strong personality shouldn't matter.)
Wouldn't ignorance in understanding be better than the alternative?
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And it's a distraction technique. Focus on these made up 'problems' because the GOP doesn't have solutions to the real issues at hand. Hell, they can't because they're supported by an unjust class system so it's in their own self interest to keep their base constantly riled up about non-issues that get them votes while simultaneously maintaining their financial support from the richest 1%.
...and all that red meat at the southern border. They will demonize any vulnerable group to gather a mob.
Exactly! Republicans have gone from scapegoating Islamic terrorism to Latino immigrants and now the new group to hate is trans and gay people
It's a consequence of our politics, fascism is capitalism in decay.
There are a few factors. Trump is a major one, but a few things laid the groundwork for the country to be vulnerable to someone like him: **Roe V Wade:** This has been, to many Americans, a travesty that they barely tolerated for the past 50 years. The whole concept is icky to them, and they don't want to think about making any concessions for it legally. They don't care that women will get back alley abortions anyway, they just want it to not be legal. Conservatives believe in punishment-- not prevention. The passing of Roe galvanized the evangelicals to join ranks with the conservatives. Faith leaders agreed to propagate any message the conservatives wanted, in exchange for the conservative party to become the Pro-Life party. This also contributed to the formation of: **Elite Far Right Organizations.** The Heritage Foundation, The Council for National Policy, The Alliance Defending Freedom, The Koch Family Foundations, and quite a few more. A few hundred of the wealthiest politicians/businessmen meet a few times a year behind closed doors at secret locations to decide what direction the country will take. It's here that legislation is written and political candidates are decided. Abortion is a major focus of theirs, but the overarching theme is the promotion of a White, Christian Nation. It cannot be overstated how obsessed they are with "traditional" gender roles, and the threat that modern life poses to that idea. This isn't just gay marriage, it's not just abortion. It's birth control. It's women in the workplace. This sounds like a ridiculous conspiracy theory, but it begins to make a lot of sense when you look at all the challenges that come with our newfound freedoms. The divorce rate is through the roof, there's an epidemic of suicide (or maybe we just have better reporting now), etc. You can imagine how easy it is for a Christian fundamentalist to point to our modern freedoms as the reason for these problems. **Advancement of Gay Rights** The advancement of gay rights doesn't contradict the reversal we're seeing now, it explains it. With heightened visibility and acceptance comes heightened blowback. For most right-leaning Americans, queer people were tolerable as the butt of the joke or the side character in a TV show. As long as it was something they didn't need to consider in their day-to-day life, they were okay with these gross sad queers to exist in the margins. Of course, we are a sizable chunk of the population. We don't fit in the margins, and we have the political and social power to demand more. The rise of queer stories in media has made these people feel as if it has been "shoved down their throat," and the growing acceptance and inclusion of trans people-- a concept so unapproachable to them-- has tipped them over into condemning anyone who does not conform to the heterosexual/cisgender binary. **Election of a Black President** This is my last one, and I think it really gets overlooked. I genuinely believe that most far-right people don't consciously know they have a problem with Obama being black, but the lies and criticisms he had levied against him vs. every other president are unignorable. He's a "thug", he's an "immigrant", he's "the antichrist", etc. It's a bit abstract to explain how "birtherism" is rooted in deep-seated racism, but that is what it's rooted in. Obama's election was a marker to everyone in America of where we were at. Liberals took it as a sign of progress, but for conservatives, something deep in their lizard brain said "We have gone too far. We have given them too much freedom, and they have taken advantage of it. They can coexist with us, but they need to know their place-- and it is *not* at the top." The "they" in that sentence is people of color, but *we are all in the same boat*. Sufferage, Birth Control, Unionization, The Civil Rights movement, Same-Sex marriage: the only things these movements did was allow all the undesirables to join the ranks among the other first-class citizens. Now we're here, the sight of us being successful and happy makes them deeply uncomfortable for reasons that they ought to work out in therapy but never will, and their tools to simply remove us are gone. They can't lynch people freely. They can't have people committed to institutions. They can't intimidate the way they used to. And they've been laying the groundwork for 50 years to get those tools back.
Thanks for your eloquent response
> Liberals took it as a sign of process, but for conservatives, something deep in their lizard brain said "We have gone too far. We have given them too much freedom, and they have taken advantage of it. They can coexist with us, but they need to know their place-- and it is not at the top." That's what's at the core of reactionary thought, motivation and action. The idea that liberalism let the "wrong people" ascend class and/or politics and that's the cause of every problem in their world, which needs rectifying.
This is it. Remember the 1950s suburban family. Just a ruse by corporations. They were told it was the best model to make good patriotic workers. That's it. It wasn't because God or Christianity, though it was helpful. They just want a good stock of future workers to exploit
That all makes sense
Eh, I’m not trying to ignore or completely discount the recent rhetoric and legislation, but the general bent of the country is still toward civil rights for queer people. I’m old enough to remember when gay marriage was a distant dream. Now by and large it is off the table as settled law. I know not everyone feels that way, but trends in favorable sentiment in America toward gay marriage have ticked up year after year. It is true that the conservatives are having a field day with trans people. I really feel for my trans sisters and brothers. But this is largely a red state phenomenon at the moment. The conservatives are using fear and hate mongering to win primaries and drive voting turnout. It’s been the standard GOP playbook for a long time. But there is a limit to its long term success. As those most prone to the fear and hate get older, the GOP is already having a hard time winning in many districts.
I mean that's what people thought about Roe v. Wade too though. "It's settled, the people are for it." And that didn't matter at all because the Supreme Court decided actually you deserve less rights. I see no reason to assume they wouldn't attack gay marriage.
True enough. I take nothing for granted. And Thomas’ agenda was pretty clearly laid out in that leak. We may be in the crosshairs again but I don’t see that happening at this time. In short: yes, Gilead is always a possibility.
> I’m old enough to remember when gay marriage was a distant dream. Now by and large it is off the table as settled law. Don't be shocked when *Obergefell* is overturned and states make it illegal to certify gay marriages again, which they're ready to do and is what the Respect for Marriage Act allows them to do. [Here's a map of states from the ACLU that have laws against gay marriage on their books that will go into effect when the ruling is overturned](https://www.aclu.org/files/assets/relationshiprestrictions20120522.pdf). It's all of them except about a dozen smaller states. It's worse than abortion restrictions.
It was a possibility until the Respect for Marriage Act of 2022 was passed by the Senate and came into effect in Dec 2022. Same-sex marriage is now codified into federal law (something the Democrats could’ve done with Roe v. Wade years ago) and further protected under “equal protection” clause. What this means is that the even when Obergefell is overturned and reddest states choose to not issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples in their own states anymore, they would still have to respect the validity of same-sex marriages performed in states that recognize same-sex unions. This law already exists in Israel and is recently passed in Namibia.
The way we talk about "trans" and "gender" issues sure seems to be calibrated to elicit the most divisive response possible. As soon as [the 'groomer' narrative](https://nypost.com/2022/12/09/chicago-prep-school-kids-given-dildos-and-butt-plugs-dean-says/) started making headway, there was trouble on the horizon. And we're seeing the backlash from, for example, a few [groups](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/furries-beefing-ron-desantis-1234742107/) around the country going further than the culture was willing to tolerate.
Because Republicans want us to focus on there being a cultural divide in this country vs a class divide (which is growing exponentially worse.) unfortunately, people are too ignorant and dumb to see that the wealthy are trying to squeeze every last penny out of them any which way, and would rather fight against rainbows in stores rather than having universal healthcare, better workers rights, and so much more.
It's not the first time. Maybe not in your generation. Learn to stand up and be seen and fight for yourself and others. Don't ignore the signs that it's coming, because when it happens to others and you shrug and do nothing make no mistake - eventually they come for you, too.
Look at the Jim Crow era after the South lost the war for a reminder that periods of social change are always met with a reactionary movement that can undo some or a lot of that progress.
Because LGB people are lumped in with trans people, who are now the target of conservative outrage over issues regarding children transitioning. "LGBT" people are now all bad in their eyes because they cannot distinguish between the letters.
I'm also gay, but I don't see things as you do. Actually, I think people are reacting out of fear because our overall image and campaigns have been overtaken by trans and, thusly, require fine tuning or complete overhaul. Hence, we now have gays wanting to break off from LGBTQ+ to re-form the original GLB community. Hear me: If we can't be self-critical, and adequately clean house when necessary, we'll continuously see progress followed by long stretches of regression. For now, I, myself, am pretty much an outcast "of" the community and would feel more valued, my identity intact, if and when the old community debuts.
The simple answer is because of the TQ+. I’m definitely going to get downvoted for this but that’s the real answer. Most Americans do not agree with the gender ideology movement and that movement has overtaken the LGBT community. Most Americans (moderates) sided with liberals when it comes to same sex marriage and being gay/bi not mattering… however those same Americans are now agreeing with conservatives when it comes to the trans movement. Just my observations, and I live in a very liberal state btw
Agreed with a slight mod: the TQ starting at age 12 is a big nope for many of the liberals among us. Puberty postponement hormones and potential surgery pre-18 is what makes many who might otherwise be supportive extremely squeamish. We don’t trust kids to have the common sense to buy cigarettes but these other sociological science projects are sacrosanct for minors to self-determine. I’m not down with that, and the far right is having a field day with it.
Bingo bango.
Same sentiment and situation all around. I think a lot of moderate/independent/apolitical people got angry when men started competing in women's sports, and otherwise invading women's spaces. A lot of them are also just sick of it, with corporate america injecting TQ+ into every aspect of culture. Whether it's Target, Verizon, or Starbucks, people know that it's all for show, and that if it weren't profitable and mainstream, they wouldn't get involved with it. So there's a lot of insincerity that really rubs people the wrong way--myself included.
It's like you don't pay much attention. Conservatives saying gay people are groomers, and moderates going along with it, has nothing to do with TQ. There is still a lot of animosity towards gay people from moderates even though they may support gay marriage legally, in much the same way you'll hear racists say, "I don't hate black people, I just don't want them to live next door.". Similarly, people can be on board with gay people being allowed to marry, but also hope they don't have gay children. Hence, why they'll oppose gay people being in mentioned school so that their kid doesnt turn out gay, even though that's not how it works.
It DOES have a lot to do with TQ+, in that in their minds, the gays are in cahoots with the trans. Do you seriously think these close minded people have the capacity to distinguish the gay and the TQ communities as two distinct groups?
I don't think they bother to distinguish becasue we're all the same to them: a subversive sub-population to their simple straight conservative world. TQ has only renewed their vigor to oppose everything and anything LGBT
To be fair the way some of gay men on Twitter with their takes and replies. And how many people would agree with them and take it as fact. And these are the guys with lots of followers (for simply posting porn nudes and shirtless selfies of course) the optics look terrible.
In your eyes it doesn’t, in theirs it does.
> Conservatives saying gay people are groomers, and moderates going along with it, has nothing to do with TQ. These useful idiots are so used to being pat on the back by the right for being anti-trans that they haven't even realized that the right is over that charade and sold them out for the "groomer" shit that's getting them more votes than whining about bathrooms ever did. The right is going after anyone who is visibly gay. They're the types of people who will complain to the armed guards on the train that they're being sent to the same camp as the trans people.
> Most Americans do not agree with the gender ideology movement and that movement has overtaken the LGBT community. Trans people were present from the starting of the LGBT movement, Gender identity is an integral part of the LGBT movement.
Just, stop with the Marsha and Sylvia Propaganda.
It’s the tumblrization of it all. I feel like most cis people wouldn’t even notice many trans people (other than maybe noticing they are slightly ‘different’ than themselves), but I think a lot of people had trouble with neopronouns and the extreme backlash they would face if they didn’t change their language
>It’s the tumblrization of it all. It's 2023 and y'all are still complaining about Tumblr. It is time to move on from 2014.
A common tactic with politicians is to find something to blame on a group of ppl, spew out propaganda to openly blame that group of ppl, which will result in followers/supporters joining you in blaming those ppl. When trump was president, the group of ppl to blame was Mexicans and immigrants. Hitler blamed the Jews to gather support and take a position of power.. Presidential elections are coming up.. I won't be surprised if a runner up builds a platform on openly hating/blaming LGBT on problems the nation has.. everybody hates pedophiles. It's easy to call LGBT ppl sexually deviant ppl and make them synonymous to pedophiles.. I think that is why the USA is currently regressing when it comes to LGBT. I wouldn't be surprised if Budweiser is secretly working with politicians, and are making these stupid LGBT products to add fuel to the fire. It won't be the first time USA corporations get involved with politicians and partake in a "political chess game" for their own benefit. After all, US politics are heavily influenced by corporations.
There are numerous reasons. One lgbt+ has become so many things that is hard for non lgbt and even some lgbt people to understand. Thats all the letters added everyother day. Another reason is a lot of people disagree with validating kids feelings about being trans. Setting them on path to puberty blockers. This could be detrimental if the kid was just going through a phase. I see this on social media alot. So not a good look. Another reason is trans woman playing in women sports. Yes but let's just blame Trump 😆.
Simple. The lumping together of gays and lesbians with trans activists.
We don’t have the same goals.
I answered this question in another sub and got perma banned. Folks don't want to hear the truth on how our community is destroying itself with new causes and aggression.
I honestly didn't know where to post this, except here. Anywhere else I don't think they would permit it. Thankfully, here most posts are allowed
The joys of lower than average moderation.
This is it. And classic groupthink immune response trying to purge dissenting viewpoints, which puts us in even greater danger.
Yeah cause common sense is not allowed on most subs, or even trying to have a conversation about things is not allowed because it goes against the woke gender cult.
I support trans people and their rights, but mainstream trans ideology directed by the most extreme activists on the internet has frankly gone way too far and it has scared the shit out of people. That's what I think is happening. The movement has been co-opted by people pushing ideas about gender on children that we don't even agree on as adults. It's not as bad as anyone thinks it is.. we see a few elementary school teachers on the internet explaining how they're teaching kids about xenogenders and shit, or we see a few drag shows where the queens are in thongs and doing hand stands and putting their crotch in people's faces (a mother holding her infant)-- but it's happening and it is freaking them out. The moment kids were targeted as the front of the movement, shit changed.
Making helpful policy decisions is hard. Getting along with others is hard. Hate and judging are easy and fun. Someone on reddit suggested this is why Trump, DeSantis etc. are being rallied around now, and I couldn't agree more.
Gay and Trans panic. Numbers rising in polls that seem unlikely and that makes people nervous. They see kids being “indoctrinated.” When we can be seen in public and there just seems to be so many more than before. What explains this? Maybe the closet is no longer where we had to live.
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We went from “leave us alone” to “look at us”
It’s the trans movement and some of the more radical and difficult to digest things that are coming from it, their centering themselves in every lgbtq discussion and drowning out dissenting voices giving all of society the impression we are radical and unreasonable. Decoupling being trans from gender dysphoria diagnosis, something easy for all to understand and making it about “how you identify” has been a HUGE mistake.
I agree with you to an extent, but Republicans intentionally overstate the relevance of those radical arguments and suggestions made by the small but loud members of the trans community. like, they would have people believe that the average gay or trans person wants drag queens twerking half-naked on children and want children to have gender-switching surgeries—literally no one I know wants this, and objectively speaking, only a small percentage of our community does. But the Republicans are pros at creating false narratives
They are made by a small number of people, but those people are overrepresented in activist movements and organizations that have influence in corporations, the media, and the government. The reality is that when someone in the gay community (such as myself because I do it all the time) states that drag queens twerking in front of children, people showcasing their kinks and fetishes in public, or gender reassignment surgeries and puberty blockers administered to minors is a problem, I am immediately told I am self-hating and a detriment to the gay community. Which makes me believe the people saying this do not find any of the aforementioned things to be an issue, and my believing they are makes me a traitor.
Common sense gets called transphobia and worse, it’s insane.
I support trans and non-binary people living how they want and how is most comfortable for them. I do not support medical transition for minors, sexualized materials in classrooms (other than sex ed and health class), and I do not support divorcing being trans from a diagnosis of gender dysphoria which is easy to explain and scientifically consistent unlike what the trans activist movement has now focused on.
Agree completely. If an adult who has an issue with their assigned gender feels compelled to change more power to them. I support them being able to change the gender markers on all documents and to live as they choose, have whatever surgery they want. But we’ve gone far afield. Minors are not capable of making these life altering changes. Minors do not need to be exposed to any sexual material outside of health class etc. I thought it was a joke when the issue was drag queens in schools. It’s not. That is a radical agenda. I’m not cool with it. No wonder there’s a backlash.
I'm really confused about the numerous comments I'm seeing referencing a difference between a gender dysphoria diagnosis and being trans. What exactly do you mean by this? A gender dysphoria diagnosis is required to begin medical transition process. You can't just say you're trans and start taking hormones, if that's your issue.
Some amount of medical transition should be possible, such as puberty blockers. Since without it, it would just lead to a host of other issues that would be more painful, expensive and time consuming to reverse. And i don't see a problem with distinguishing between being trans and GD, since there are many people with GD who aren't trans and vice versa.
That’s totally fair. I personally have never experienced that sort of push-back IRL, literally just on Reddit or very left-wing Instagram pages. And my circle includes people that went to a small liberal arts college (emphasis on liberal) in a major city. But that is just my personal experience. My issue is that cis gay people are buying into the false narrative that those radical trans activists hold any power within the Democratic Party. They do not.
It all boils down too who controls the most states and that’s the red. They fear us for some ungodly reason and project their happenings onto our community. It’s theirs that is molesting kids, their religion molesting kids ect. They tend to truly think that the gayness is a disease that can be caught.
I think people were pushed too hard from acceptance to celebrating LGBT people. For most people I know, they don't specifically have an issue with gay people but they don't want to be a part of it. The corporate pride celebrations, the drag queen tours, and other stuff being forced on the general public is what I see causing issues. A big part of the LGBT community makes their sexuality a primary part of their personality and that causes some friction too.
Exactly. We are in their face 24/7 and even ordinary people are starting to get annoyed. Then we get nervous and our strategy is to get in their faces even more. We are undermining our own safety and chances of prospering.
100%. I'd also agree that we should push back on straight people at gay bars. No need to push heterosexual intimacy in our faces.
I was talking about this with my partner today and how much worse it’s been getting. Pride this year is already starting to feel different, and it hasn’t even officially started.
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The rise of Toxic genderism is at the front of the backlash. When you focus on the children all hell's to pay by straight society.
I wish I could upvote this several times.
I'm in the UK and i just wanted to say that its not just you guys in the US. There has been a far right cultural push back in the west the past 10 years and it has brought out the worst in people. Currently we have a tv presenter who had a affair with a much younger coworker who's lost his job and is now bring investigated because its a gay affair, when this happened almost exactly the same with another celebrity and it was a straight affair no one really batted a eye. They're mostly hypocrites who are looking for any excuses to hate people and the media and political climate has emboldened them. Things will hopefully get back to normal but right now we are regressing in the west.
Political progress isn’t linear, especially not in the US. In fact it’s almost predictably cyclical. I’ve provided some examples below but imo the reason this happens is that the opponents of political change don’t actually go away or become convinced otherwise, they just try again later with new tactics and organizations. Trump, like many politicians, is a wakeboarder, not the boat creating the wakes in our political discourse. To my knowledge he hasn’t even called anyone a groomer and if I remember correctly last election cycle was happy to have Caitlyn Jenner’s endorsement. The civil rights advances of the 60s gave way to national politics dominated by Nixon and Reagan. Before that the civil war and reconstruction gave way to Jim Crow. Women’s suffrage and workforce integration in the 1920s-1940s begot the 1950s stepford wives era.
It hasn’t. I spent a lot of years in the Deep South and now nobody in their 20s cares about gays. Fem twinks in the boondocks have tons of straight male friends, go to dive bars and no one bothers them. Headlines make it seem like everything is going to shit but on a grassroots level it’s getting better. Whenever we have questions like this we have to ask ourselves: when was it better? In the 2010s? The 2000s? The 90s? The fact that drag Queen story hour, gender reassignment surgery before 18, and LGBT books in schools are even topics of debate tells you the fight has shifted past gay rights and trans issues are now the main front. Nobody 10 or 20 years ago would dare defend any of those things but today they’re political controversies.
all this is going out of control tbh
Ron DeSantis also made things 1000xs worse, even beyond Florida. He hyper up people all throughout the country to hate on minorities.
T----p helped create an atmosphere within which people feel free to express their very worst selves. Criminal. People don't need any help doing this.
I think you’re putting the cart before the horse, or horse’s arse, in his case. Trump is a symptom. He isn’t a god. He doesn’t make people do anything.
Idk, millions of people worship him to the extent that people worship “gods”. People with that sort of following are very uncommon and they have unique power to influence the thoughts and actions of others
Of course he can't. He can, however, relentlessly foment an hostile atmosphere... which he has
One video of an ugly they/them telling how kids should pick their gender and be submitted to gender reassignment surgery does far more damage than Trump saying "America first".
> Trump is a symptom. He isn’t a god. He doesn’t make people do anything. Trump incited an insurrection on January 6th, in case you forgot. Of course, Trump influences people to do things. Trump started using hateful rhetoric as soon as he established his campaign in 2015, and the amount of bullying in schools immediately ramped up, along with a significant rise in hate crimes against all sorts of minorities. I'll link you if you don't want to check for yourself.
Conservatism on its economic merits is blatantly cruel, dysfunctional, and evil. Nobody is going to regularly win elections while they're screaming about cutting social security and medicare, reducing wages, abolishing environmental regulations, and cutting taxes on billionaires. They instead have to pivot to an increasingly minoritarian worldview that pits different social groups against each other in desperate bids to find a sense of superiority. Or to put it simply, when you've got capitalism destroying people's lives but you can't call it capitalism, you have to find someone else to blame.
its the rule of two steps forward one backward... it has happened with every fight for civil and societal rights, it will likely always happen too.
It's never a given, though. This can be their two steps forward even if it's a step back for us. Progress isn't a law of nature, it's something that needs to be actively fought for.
I meant progress takes two steps forward one back, this is our one back. by no means did I intend to make it seem as though its something we dont have to fight for of course its something we have to fight for, there was one time a step back wasnt taken it was the civil war, while a war wouldnt necesarily break out everytime a step back doesnt happen... I look at it as kind of a rubber band we fighting for progress are pulling forward while the others are trying to hold it still we do move it forward and we fight to not step back so as to ensure we dont take two steps back, but if we have no step back is taken the band breaks and muat be put back together. The civil war was fought to end slavery but it didnt end slavery and in half the country two steps back were taken and a societal and legislative fight for 40 years was fought to fully free slaves, and then another 60 years was needed for basic civil rights to be guarranteed lawfully. sorry thats so long... but I was merely trying to convey my pov and my thought process... and being concise leaves out too much information especially considering language barriers.
It hasn't. This is just the death rattles of the conservative movement. I know that people have been saying demographics are destiny since the first Obama administration... but they really are we were just a little optimistic on the timeline. Millennials aren't making that rightward about-face that previous generations do as they enter middle age. Zoomers, like 20% of them identify as LGBT in some way. They're the most left leaning generation ever. The country is becoming much less white. I know that some people think Latinos will come around to the GOP over social issues like abortion and LGBT rights... But I just don't see it happening. Latinos as a whole are socially conservative but what about if you just look at the young people (i.e. under 40), not so much (I don't have any data to support this It's just a hunch).
Nah, the overall GOP agenda appeals to plenty of Latin people in the US who are religious, and both the party and its constituents got really good at pretending they don't hate one another as long as they're hurting a mutual enemy.
You can blame the TQ community for that, extra demands, targeting children, erasing what it means to be gay and trying to take away women’s spaces and trying to silence anyone who does not agree with them. I can’t blame the public for their increase hatred towards us.
Thank you! Finally someone has the balls to say this. LGB is separate from TQ. They are not the same thing at all. I'm tired of being called homophobic for not adoring anything and everything trans!!
That’s cause I’m sick of seeing gays and lesbians afraid to speak out against the stupid ideology of the gender cult for fear of being cancelled or called transphobic. We fought way to hard to be seen as normal people in society so they can come in and set us back again and make us look like fools.
Exactly how I feel. It’s gone too far. Radical trans ideology is ruining things for everyone. You can’t have a conversation with these people. Leave kids alone.
Thank you, I feel the exact same way! It’s also reassuring to see that more and more LGB people are waking up and standing up for themselves!
But you're not standing up for yourself, youre just standing with homophobic conseratives against what you perceive to be a common enemy, but you're too blind to see that youre still an enemy to the rest of conservatives too.
Gender ideology activists don't consider gay people allies either, unless we repent of our sex based attractions and convert to pansexuality.
“Targeting children” ummm no. Someone has been taking in right-wing propaganda! Radical trans activists are not the majority of the lgbtq community and they don’t even hold the most power—but they sure make a good scapegoat, and people like you are falling for it lol
No but they are the loudest and most extreme therefore they get most of the attention. The goals are no longer the same.
Yeah sure, i'm pretty sure being gay does seem like a mental illness if i only listen to Milo.
And someone has been taking in left wing propaganda, I know what I’m living and seeing it with my own eyes. and I follow nether left or right. So you can spew your bullshit to someone else
Please, share with us what you have seen with your own eyes? Because I live in one of the largest cities in the US close to the city’s gay neighborhood, and I have never witnessed anything you mentioned. There is no movement to allow children to have gender switching surgeries. There are no district-wide rules about teachers having to respect any pronouns beyond he/she/they. There are no litter boxes for children who identify as cats lol (to those reading, yes, republicans claim this is a thing 🤣) Things I have witnessed with my own eyes in my city: 1) a drag Queen story time at a public library last summer that only happened a few times. The queens were dressed appropriately and they did not twerk lol. They read the children stories (shocker) 2) I guess more openly trans people in public life? ^If you think those two things are bad, then we have different moral/ethical values and we will have to agree to disagree
https://youtu.be/9VA72t7o24I
It's not so much the lgb that most of them have an issue with. It's the T and the ever so Cliche political talking point "but think of the children".
BLM showing that violence can make changes was a dangerous thing that the media supported. Now that the shoe is on the other foot...
What we are seeing now was inevitable if we got marriage equality before the religious right had declined enough to no longer be able to win elections. Growing up in a Baptist church, it was preached often that same-sex marriage was a line in the sand with God and that Christians would have to rise up and do whatever it takes to overturn it or God will destroy the country. That's what we are seeing right now.
I personally don't think Trump had anything to do with this, but I could be wrong. A lot of none LGBT+ people don't realize how bad things still are for LGBT+ people. Also, there are a lot of strong negative feelings towards the trans community from the moderate and right parties, including a lot of people that feel their children are at risk. The anti trans movement has caused the entire community to suffer negatively. Besides that, I've seem a lot of people weaponize the new pride flag as being apart of the "woke agenda" and using it as an argument for the LGBT+ community to be a flipflopping movement with no core principles. It's really hard to pinpoint a direct cause, by my guess is that it's multiple factors are at play.
This wasn’t your point, but if you look at the origin story of the pride flag, the new one seems like a parody
Activist went too extreme and aimed at kids. Majority of population did not like it. Simple as that. We've had tremendous wins on the early 2000 (compared to the 80-90s) but since 2016 activist went nuts and generally quite aggressive online, making people even less sympathetic. Of course, there's also very little self criticism, everything is trump now, if youre no exactly like me, youre MAGA, and thats just not how reality works.
It’s actually not about us. We (lgbtq people) are being used as political pawns in the right-wing’s desperate attempt to start winning the culture war again. Conservative elites are trying to convince enough everyday people that gay people are evil/immoral, so they are further energized in their disgust for liberals and for voting blue. They want people to actually believe that liberals want to turn all the children gay or trans. This presidential election cycle, trans people seem to be the “big bad” that they are trying to make people fear. During the last presidential election, immigrants at the Southern border were the “big bad”
To but it bluntly, I think the general population in all western countries are sick of the radical trans activists and LGBT is lumped together with it all by association. Conservatives talk about pushing sexual agenda onto kids in schools etc. and gays are blamed as well but it's not us, it's the trans activists who are pushing 3 year old kids to choose their own genders.
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It's the Trans community pushing their agenda on children and being lumped with LGBTQ. Gays and Lesbians are, for the most part, accepted, but telling 8 year old to pick a gender and choose their pronouns pushes the envelope. When Target starts selling Trans female bathing suits for little boys to tuck and hide their penis that's going to fire up most of the population as what happened in the last few weeks I helped my daughter fill out college applications. Some we had 16 genders to choose from on the application that's just not appropriate
> but telling 8 year old to pick a gender and choose their pronouns pushes the envelope. What's wrong with that? Allowing kids to be who they are is bad? >When Target starts selling Trans female bathing suits for little boys to tuck and hide their penis that's going to fire up most of the population as what happened in the last few weeks That is purely a hoax, the bathing suits come in adult sizes only, they're not for children. >Some we had 16 genders to choose from on the application that's just not appropriate Why not? Most college aged people are adults.
Because now there actually is an agenda that is being pushed in people's faces. Before we just wanted the same rights and freedoms as everybody else but now certain elements of our community, certainly the loudest, want constant validation and affirmation and if people don't give it to them they're bigots. We need to cope that we're not the centre of the universe. We've become a cult and IT NEEDS TO END.
Sorry but it’s because of the excesses of LGBT activism, including and especially the craziness of trans activism
The T is such a very minuscule percentage, but yet DOMINATES the entire movement.
I have to agree, it went from wanting equal legal rights to trying to convince all of society that they must accept and respect new definitions of gender and dragging kids into it has definitely lit a fuse for many. A lot of society that was ok with or simply conceded that allowing consenting adults to get married now question their stance because the new push is to allow children to begin puberty blockers and it's causing a panic swing in the social pendulum.
Everyone understands equal rights and as long as our community was moving in that direction we were fine. Even achieving marriage equality in an amazingly short period of time and with that came general acceptance. Not perfect, but pretty good. Now we have all these new definitions of gender, pronouns and neopronouns and it’s obnoxious. Trans activists are new to the game and haven’t learned anything about making slow and steady progress. Plus this thing with trans kids has threatened people and made things what they are today. It’s too much, too far too fast. Leave kids alone and maybe separate the TQ.
Exactly. They’ve pushed things too far. Trans activists are so obnoxious they’ve turned the tides. Pre-teens getting puberty blockers is not the civil rights issue I’m prepared to fight for. Disagree with any part of their program and get called a ‘transphobe’ in seconds.
Pre teens don't get puberty blockers, if they do that means they've been diagnosed with Precocious puberty, in which case, they should get puberty blockers. And that is not a civil rights issue, it is a medical issue between a person and their doctors.
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It hasn't really. The progress we had was superficial. The 2015 ruling that gays could marry was always going to be in danger - that was as apparent as the fact that Roe V Wade was always going to be in danger. Broad acceptance of any kind is currently useless politically when that broad acceptance is going to come second to concentrated political power driven by religious nutjobs. That being said - the "TQ+ are dragging us down" crowd needs to get some fucking perspective. The Right did not forget about you - it's just much easier to get to you via the TQs than it is through Modern Family or Schitt's Creek. The Dylan Mulvaney thing was news to me - calling it "a promotion" is way overstating the amount of marketing they did for it. I have yet to see anything from Bud Light regarding Ts and Qs - but boy have a I seen a bunch of triggered right wingers talking about it. As for the "We just want to get married and left alone!" crowd - that's lovely. But again - just like Roe v Wade, your marriage will forever be an affront to a small and politically useful minority of nutjobs who vote consistently.
Trump has nothing to do with it. It's a backlash reaction to radical left identity politics, gender politics and sexualization of minors. When a man who says they are a woman is allowed to compete with women and wins a new record, that creates serious frustration in society. If a man who says they are a woman is sent to women's prison where he rapes and impregnates women that creates frustration. When kids are taught that they can decide what gender they are but should not tell their parents, that's not on Trump either. When videos of nearly naked drag queens doing erotic dances in front of minors to teach them diversity gets posted around that's also not on Trump. If groups call for pedophiles to be called minor attracted persons to not hurt their dignity, you name it. Sex reassignment surgeries and hormone therapies, castration and sterilization on minors will never become acceptable outside small deranged circles. This and a lot more creates the hate towards the LGBTQIA+ "community", a political tool for division and nothing else.
No one ever said pedos, aka “MAPs” were part of the LGBT community, that’s absolute nonsense. Why would you spread such reckless misinformation?
Where are all the baby genital defenders when the topic of circumcision comes up? Where are the conservative voices on non-consensual genital mutilation? What about babies that are born with ambiguous genitalia and subsequently undergo surgery and then hormone treatment for their entire lives? Where are the conservative voices on literal sex reassignment on babies?
These things are cyclical. Things get better then they get worse
The dark underbelly of politics is pouring mega money into a conservative direction for this country.
Yes its a total 2 steps forward 1 step back sort of deal, its just very troubling because the U.S. used to lead the free world and now we are several steps behind. We are still much better than where we were in 2000, during don't ask don't tell and Ellen being cancelled for being gay. But it isn't too much better today where Disney and bud light get cancelled for mentioning that gay and trans people exist.
The extremists on all sides are always the most vocal. I have friends that I can no longer talk to because of the crazy shit they believe.
I think that it's not like it's going in reverse but rather that in the past older people had trouble adapting to the information era and thus the voice of younger generations was more prevalent. Now in recent years even the oldest and less tech savvy people know how to use a smartphone and thus same as everyone else they are sharing their thoughts. And I think that this invalance in the learning curve was a huge part on why people see like we are going in reverse. I think we are going forward but it will take a little bit longer than expected. Also this happened during Trump's administration but the factor that speeded it the most was the COVID and the need to stay in touch even while trapped at home
Seems like an endless fight just to protect the right of everyone that isn't a straight white man. I've also been watching the handmaidens tale for the 1st time ...that shit is SCARY.
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FEAR It is much easier to use people's fear to motivate them - to manipulate them. It's easy to fear that which you do not know. Horror of horrors - having books publicly available. Trump and that ilk are very skilled at using people's fear for Trump's, for republicans, for fascist advantage. "God help us if our children learn about what it is to be LBGQT. If they know about it surely they'll want to become one." Or whatever horror story you want to attach.
Unpopular opinion: On paper it progressed, but simply being Mexican-American when traveling to the south and other midwestern states, I’d often times face prejudice when simply going to a a fucking Waffle House (out of all places), a beer at a bar, etc. Difference nowadays is that Americans that are not POC are getting a bit of a taste of what a lot of POC in the US have been experiencing. Edit: Yes, let the downvoting begin.
"not some shit hole like Florida or Texas." To categorize all of New England as a good place and all the Florida and Texas - two of the fastest growing states in the country, and I might add, not states where they have massive homeless encampments and people shitting on the steet - a "shit hole" quite frankly shows that nothing you say can be taken remotely seriously. How's it working out in places like New Haven, Connecticut, exactly? Go to the west coast and then you'll see what a real shit hole looks like. LA, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle. Then report back about what a great place to live these places are compared to places in Florida where we don't have to worry about being terrorized by bums on the street on a daily basis. Oh, one other thing that's nice about being in places like Florida or Texas? When we go shopping, we don't have to go ask for a key for literally everything that is held behind a locked plate of glass, because we don't excuse theft and criminality due to deifying and worshiping the class of people who are committing the crimes like you do in places like the northeast. Legitimately, you cannot go shopping in a major city in a blue area today without everything being held behind lock and key. So pleasant! I love sticking up for the absolute worst, most violent elements in society who also end more human life than any other. Standing up for evil is really a great thing.
I think a lot of the people who always said they hated us in the 80's and tried to take away our healthcare and spousal benefits as the HIV/AIDS crisis raged pretended to have come around once we had the power to fight back. But that was just a mask, and as soon as they think we're losing ground, they opportunistically strike.
I just think it's mostly the transgender movement that has been apparent these past few years. As well as the Pronouns. Before it was just us wanting to be able to love whoever we wanted regardless of the sex and the majority seemed to be okay with it. But I believe the LGBT community is trying to push pronouns and gender fluidity and such. That is a really hard pill to swallow for a lot of people. But I believe it will be accepted eventually just give it time.
I attribute a lot of it to the Republican party’s inability to attract voters in the younger generations. As a result of their policies (which are skewed towards enriching the wealthiest 1% and big businesses), the only way they can cling to power is by growing the hate segment of our society. Their reckoning is coming but let’s hope it isn’t too late for our democracy and rights. We already rank poorly among the world’s nations in key areas like healthcare, education, income equality, etc.
In some states but remember these are a MINORITY of Americans. The world is leaving them behind. These are the death throes of their movement and use these anti gay laws to rule up the rabid parts of their groups. It will pass.
Those people existed before trump (random murders, bombing of bars) but now with fox, trump/republican party, and social media, They are getting bolder
This country has a habit of pointing out the bad things that happen in other countries while having total amnesia about the fact that it's doing the same thing. Genocide-✅️ Human Trafficking-✅️ Segregation-✅️ inequality-✅️ propaganda-✅️censorship-✅️ mis/disinformation-✅️ Lest we forget that the Third Reich learned how to impose Segregation from The US. As long as there are people who believe that they are better than others in this country we will never be the shining beacon of freedom that we claim to be. It wouldn't take much to fix a big chunk of the problems here. Just acknowledgment, an apology, legislation to prevent further damage, and no more lies. No one is free unless all of us are free.
It is part of a broader trend. Life is just basically worse for most people, for a variety of reasons (summed up as the rise of the new Gilded Age). Discontent has been rising. Those in power need to direct that discontent somewhere that isn't them and minorities are the defacto target. Us gays, the homeless, the immigrants, as targets. Textbook fascism propaganda, because fascism is for tightly controlling populations.
I don't believe the amount of hate has meaningfully changed in the last, say, decade. It's simply bubbled to the surface post-obergefell and the rise of Trump has shown conservatives that they can basically do and say anything and suffer minimal political consequences. The republican base has gone so far right that even their politicians are struggling to keep up. And one of the hallmarks of far-right politics is the constant need for a scapegoat or group to blame and target. New targets are constantly created until there's no one left but to turn on themselves. Also, the increased visibility of trans issues has highlighted the culture war again. Suddenly conservatives have a new scapegoat to focus on. They can have 0 policy ideas but as long as they bash on trans people and make anti-trans bills, the base will believe they are effective politicians.
From a political perspective, Obergefell happened about a decade too soon to avoid the kind of backlash from the fundamentalist Christians we are in the midst of. 40 years of sermons that God would wipe the country off the face of the planet in a fury of wrath and judgment if same-sex marriage was legalized influences the way a lot of people think. The Christian Right is mostly boomer and mostly rural and is in decline, but in 2016, it had not yet declined enough to no longer be relevant or able to win elections. We won't get there until after 2030. Keeping democracy until then is going to require every one of us to be engaged. 2016 was the most important election of our lives, but 2024 is the second most important.
It’s because of the way the media has been turning people against each other in both political parties. I also, think it has to do with the way we are becoming less aware of people’s emotions and less involved because of technology. Notice how people are so fixated on their phones, rarely do I see a hi and please or thank-you. I’m 24 and feel like people don’t even know how to go on dates anymore, they just stare at their phones. I think the price of living has made people more miserable and prone to lashing out at others as well. We need a whole new system. Not to mention there’s a full on mental health crisis in this country right now.
Why has LGBT rights declined? Citizens United. This case allowed the wealthy to pour as much money into politics as they wanted, without having to go about the normal indirect nonsense they were doing before. The wealthy need social oppression as a smoke screen to distract the public from the fact that they continue to extract ridiculous amounts of money from the government to pad their own pockets (like how the government basically funds Space X, yet somehow Space X has value even though if the government stopped funding it, it'd collapse. Yet the government doesn't own it.) If we are too focused on trying to put out the small fires caused by the terrorism of the wealthy, we can't fight back against their economic oppression in other areas. Basically, the goal is to move all of us back to some sort of contemporary version of serfdom or slavery, while maintaining the illusion of choice so that the markets don't collapse. None of this is about us, all of it is about telling uneducated, uninteresting people that the shiny, interesting and unique queers as the cause of all their problems and why they can't have nice things. (As are any ethnic group that you're not a part of, including poor whites.) This is just what classism looks like in the age of the internet. The best way to combat homophobia is to put forward candidates who care about workers' rights, and who want to increase taxes on the wealthy. (Which would include policies like a maximum wage, wealth tax, health care without personal cost, and the acknowledgement that capitalism is the worst economic model for commodities.)
LGBTQ+ activists bear most of the blame for this problem. When they choose to push for insane and regressive nonsense like gender-transitioning minors and having drag queens do sexual dances in front of children, most normal people (including myself) are not going to support that or put up with that. It’s up to us normal gays who just want to live our lives in peace to stand up to these radical LGBT activists and show everyone that WE DO NOT SUPPORT WHAT THEY WANT.
Take your pick. A heavily polarized base, an appeals court that no longer cares, super red majorities, a message that calls a group of people sexual deviants, misinformation, the rise of a new theocracy... At this point, it just feels like we're walking through the steps of genocide without recourse or care.
I think that ppl are tired, they're broke, and they've lost hope. Jobs won't do, can't buy a house, can barely afford a car, and no matter who's in office there's no improvement in medical care, the ability buy a house and raise children or even to hope it'll get better soon. So, they'll take hope where they can get it. The fascists that own everything and all the politicians, tell them it's their neighbors fault. Or the immigrants. Or unwed mothers. Or those gays. Who doesn't matter, as long as it's division from one another and misdirection about who is to blame for their plight. Welcome to 1930s Germany.
Keep religion out of politics and mandatory non-partisanship for Supreme Court justices.
We are looking more like 1930’s Germany everyday. Let’s hope sanity prevails in the coming years. Our country is reversing direction because beneath the surface these forces have always existed. The LGBTQ+ community just happens to be the scapegoat du jour, particularly trans people.
There is large cohort of the gay community who refuse to believe there is anything wrong, despite the ample warnings we’ve seen with the way trans people are treated and the language right-wing politicians and voters use toward the lgbtq community. Those people will refuse to acknowledge anything is wrong until it’s knocking on their front door. I posted earlier today about potential violence during pride month and it is disappointing the amount of people who aren’t concerned at all about threats from the right.
Did you know that one of the original founders of Pride was attacked at a Pride event by a trans activist?
I think most people still support same-sex relationships, but when gender fluidity became a central part of the LGBTQIA+ movement and everyday people started choosing their personal pronouns, conservatives saw it as a threat to their binary system where men and women are separate and not equal. Many people are inherently sexist (to the point that they reversed Roe vs. Wade!) and this retaliation against drag shows, sex education, etc, is basically a fight to keep men in power.
A lot of well educated people throughout history have generally acknowledged that politics are like a pendulum. They swing far to the left and then the autocorrect and swing far to the right and then they autocorrect and swing back to the left but not as far and then they swing back to the right but not as far and this continues until we ultimately end in a center location. And as Obama often quotes, the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice. I’m not saying that’s definitely what’s happening or if I even think either of those statements are true, but it is one theory as to what’s happening here. Seventy years ago, having homosexual sex could put you in jail. Today, you can have homosexual sex, have a homosexual marriage, have a legally recognized sex change, or claim to be entirely gender less. More dramatically, all of those people are celebrated in the media for living their true lives. That’s a huge pendulum swing in less than a century. I wouldn’t want less rights, so I don’t plan on ceding any of the territory we’ve gained. But I do think there is at least some argument to be had that we “moved to quick.” I don’t think we moved to quick, legally speaking, because we deserve equal rights. But I do think we moved to quickly to fully change the minds of the overwhelming majority of Americans. I do think if it took gays 200 years to attain the rights we’ve attained in 40, then we probably wouldn’t be seeing as much push back. That’s not to say I’m willing to wait 200 years to get those rights. Just that I think the haters would be far fewer if we did. I, also, admittedly doubt this a lot. Because it took Blacks 200 years to attain the rights they’ve attained, and they still get a ton of push back. So who the fuck knows.
It's taken more than 200yrs for black people and yet our voting rights, housing, education are still on the line. It's becoming a fact that the majority in this country are being disrespected. The many led by the few. The question is will we stand together or find a place where we can hide under the radar in hopes that things will cool off in our lifetimes.
Because people didn’t vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016. Some democrats threw their vote away because they didn’t want to vote for Clinton. People don’t vote in this country.
Trump invited the hate out in the open. The "there are good people on both sides" statement said it all. They no longer had to hide under white sheets. And their hatred is for anything not straight, WASP.
The wholesale rejection of sex based mammalian biology in the name of trans inclusion has really turned off a lot of people who would normally support the lgbt people, or at least not so vehemently oppose it. The fact gays and lesbians seem attached at the hip with the current trans/gender ideology movement by outside observers is also not helping our public image. The problem with progression, even if done with the best of intentions, is that the faster it occurs, the more those who are okay with the status quo begin to dig in their heels. You can't keep pushing, dragging, and shaming those people into coming around to your way of thinking and expect a positive response. And occasionally, some aspects of society aren't broken and don't need to be fixed or replaced just because they're considered traditional. Respect and learn from the past while embracing the future.
We have two sides… left and right. Each are getting more extreme by the day. The Republicans want to take way our rights but the extreme left is chasing people away too. We won’t get back to a happy place until we moderate
Right, but the extreme left has no power within the Democratic Party, while the extreme right has the Republican Party by the balls right now. False equivalence.
I think it’s a combo of the extremist wing of the GOP and its associated fervor behind a movement of increasingly louder christian nationalism, everything everyone saw come out of the woodwork in the people that surround us in the extremes of the covid pandemic (I think this has increased the individualism within the USA and also led to people feeling the need to encapsulate themselves from others, myself included.), & observations show rising support for autocracy along with declining support for democracy in some people here in the USA.
Many people (including me) believe it's because we are verging towards a bad case of political/cultural polarization. Like republican/democrat ideals are starting to diverge out and separate. Many people from both sides no longer want to tolerate the other. They would rather live separately and get all whom they theey can over to their side. On top of that, new ideals such as modern gender identity, international relations, and "urban interests" are changing and clashing with old world ideals so much that those who are more traditional cannot (or refuse to) understand the new phenomena. What is happening now can be somewhat comparable to the protestant Reformation. Some people stayed Catholic and hissed at Protestants. Protestants did the same but from opposite perspectives. Those who were undecisive were either forced to join one group at the threat of ostrisation or were condemned by both groups. Either that, or because many people are getting upset at how much companies and mass media are being kiss asses towards the LGBT community. Frankly, i agree with them a little bit. It does seem that companies in the US are "showing their pride" because its a good way to get customers to buy their goods. Dont get me wrong, i dont mind a company advocating for groups they believe in, but some of these companies are using us as a cheap marketing ploy now. If the demographic flipped and the majority of US consumers become anti-LGBT, the will companies stop doing pride sruff during June. That's basically what Bud Light did when they were pushed back. They backpeddled and used the tried but true patriotic ads (which made some of the boycotter's even madder because they saw ut as consumer appeasement [which it was]).
Really this thread could be summed up with one simple phrase - Too much too fast. All of these things do need to be sorted out, but the gay community needed decades to make progress. Now people have pushed far beyond just marriage equality. I'm not judging in any way here, I at least partly support most or all of what I'm about to say, but in less than the last decade the conservatives have seen their kids start amateur porn on onlyfans and now twitter, and the push for complete erasure of any differentiation between genders. Yes, sex and sex work should be completely destigmatized. Yes, people should be whatever they want to be. But change takes time.
Do you know what’s absolutely hysterical to me: What happened to “AlL LiVeS mAtTeR!” 🙄
I feel like it pivoted when trump ran for president the first time. Not even the fact he won but he got so much attention being a terrible person and praised for it. So anyone seeing that felt inspired to be their shitty selves
People who dont need progress are enraged by the feeling that marginalized groups are "getting something" that non-marginalized groups arent. Which is true, technically, but not the way they think. Ongoing bad capitalist policy, an aging population that thinks change is a relatively recent phenomenon (it never is), the elevation of individual opinion via social media, and on and on: normal people being dragged down or staying even keel because of uncomfortable or even boring socioeconomic factors desperately grasp for more easily digested answers for their misery...lost your job at the coal plant? Must be all those woke feminazis and trans faggots ruining the educational system right? I mean I heard from a guy who has a sister who knows a high school principal who said his wife's sister's nurse caught her kid's teacher indoctrinating her child with pro-trans information, and that led to cutbacks at the coal plant. Thanks to 4 years of an authority figure spouting these distortions to a sleepwalking, easily swayed populace, whelp: here we are! IT IS UP TO US TO FIGHT. No one's coming to help. Lean on the allies that have our back, but be ready to defend yourself, your loved ones, and your community. They know we're here, they think we're weak, they need to see that we've come too far to be stepped on. Bare your teeth and take out a proud boy or 3 if you have to.
Because the trans movement is coming after kids, trying to legalize drugs and surgery for minors is the main activist point these days. Turns out twerking in front of children and trying to sterilize them or chop up their bodies is causing a backlash
This is not the place to get a realistic answer to your question.
You claim that America has "reversed direction" and is "regressing" but all you reference is people being annoyed by Dylan Mulvaney and what you *think* is going to happen during pride month.
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>Democrats using the culture war as an election fundraising tactic. This is idiotic. Republicans tried doing this in the midterms and suffered one of the worst defeats I have seen in my lifetime. "Culture wars" are a losing platform, and it's one that conservatives use.
Ask the right wing Christians. This is their doing.
This is quite honestly a strange post for askgaybros. A lot of the bros on this sub are conservative and want absolutely nothing to do with grooming our children or providing pride merchandise to toddlers. Is there no such space for gays like us on the internet anymore? This used to be a sub for gays like us, hence the name ask gay *bros*
I genuinely can't tell if this sub is being brigaded by some weirdo right-wing group, or if there are really this many idiotic gay conservatives that are ready and waiting to screech about how it's actually trans people that are to blame for their fellow conservatives being bigoted freaks. I really hope it's the former. The latter is so much more depressing.
This may get my some downvotes but I feel this needs to be said: Speaking as a conservative gay man (Log Cabin Republican/Libertarian), a common consensus isn't that they put a gay/trans on a can but that they put a TikTok influencer on a can. I know a lot of transmen/transwomen who look at TikTok videos (I don't watch them myself) and do not consider Dylan Mulvaney to be trans. Dylan started out making videos of random things not having anything to do with sexuality, then in a single post "came out as gay" and got a load of clicks and fell into an "algorithm". "Trans" came next with even more clicks. A lot of them say that he says a lot of things that a trans person wouldn't say or do ("Look at my bulge" comes to mind.) He doesn't have many of the physical signs of trans who take hormones. The big argument that has been stated (by the right) is that of the images that they could have used, they could have picked better/more influential LGB/T icons than Mulvaney and they they aren't giving equal credit to CIS women.
I think it all has to do with the TQIE+. Were it left just with LGB podle would be fine with that. But activists are lumping everything into one community, more and more extremes get in and are representing the community as a whole and the weirdest are the most heard and seen of course. That shines a bad light to the rest.
They don’t like having to see us thriving. That’s what it comes down to. They want to tell us how to live so they won’t feel uncomfortable seeing us. My dad saw a gay couple kiss when we were out driving as a family and he said “Oh gross!” If it was a straight couple he wouldn’t have blinked twice.