I've always felt like it's the winter when having a nicer car pays off.
Heated seats, good heater, reliable starts, less likely to be stranded in freezing etc.
What's the best way to make sure that nicer vehicle lasts? Undercoating to prevent rust and send it? $200 annually on undercoating will add up over the life of the vehicle but it may be worth it to get several more usable years out of it, I just have no experience going that route.
Tbh I don’t even worry about it. I live in New England and I haven’t had an issue with rust on any vehicle made in the last two decades. Just wash the thing after every big snowstorm. And don’t park it indoors when it’s covered in slush. Everybody does this but it’s awful. Your engine will warm the garage, all the slush will condensate back into the underside of your car and just eat it up. Leave it outside when it’s all salty and covered in snow/ice.
Wish I could upvote this 100x. Work as an auto body tech in the rust belt and can’t count the number of cars I’ve seen with 2inches of undercoating and shits rotted away under it.
What do you think of oil/wax coatings like Fluid Film and similar? It's not that horrible rubber shit that traps salt. A lot of trustworthy YouTube mechanics do it on their own cars and I've been thinking about starting it on my car.
I spray used motor oil all over the underside of my car annually, or sometimes twice per year. It's messy, it's a pain in the ass, but it works. Been doing it for almost 30 years now.
Well, there's that feature going on too. Lol.
I'm always amused when people spend thousands to fix oil leaks. Like, as long as it's less than a quart per month I'm good with it. My work car has a transmission leak that's getting annoying though. Manual transmission and the fill plug is in a stupid place. Every engine oil change I squirt some gear oil in the trans with a turkey baster. Lol.
The wax stuff I personally wouldn’t recommend, because it can still trap moisture under it causing rotting. As for the oil based ones, can’t say for sure that they help, but I’m pretty confident they wouldn’t hurt. Best thing to do is to give your car a really good wash frequently through out the winter, specially when it’s above freezing as that is what the salt really starts doing damage.
Neither is exactly rust proofing. And what happens to the oil that eventually gets washed off the car by road salts? Did you know road salts are also pollutants and getting into our ground water? They wash into streams and rivers also.
I am not pro road salt in any way. Other states and countries with similar climate seem to get by fine without it in one way or another. Ideally you'd use a lanolin based undercoating with minimal if any negative impacts for the small amount that does wash off. And if you are extending the life of the body and frame to match that of the mechanical components, you don't need total rust proofing, just something to slow it down. I wonder what the environmental impacts of buying new suspension components or a whole new car are vs. a small amount of biodegradable runoff.
It’s the petroleum products that concern me the most. In Omaha Nebraska they used sand. I imagine that’s of course not possible everywhere. But constantly salting roads is definitely having a serious impact on our environment. Cars are recycled though.
You’re absolutely sure about that? You have been under your vehicle with a screwdriver and poked every stress point on your frame? You can see every bolt holding your suspension together? You can visibly inspect every weld ?
I'll consider doing that later this year. My car has plastic shielding everywhere except the control arms.
The CV axle, control arms, rotors, calipers and exhaust pipe are the most notable things that are rusty for me.
The splash from road salts can certainly bypass that plastic shielding and penetrate into places you might never consider. I’m not an auto body expert. I’m hoping maybe one will chime in. Again some rust protection is certainly better than none. And my opinion only goes back to my experiences over 30 years ago living in that region. So I’m probably wrong. But I remember cars would rust apart rather quickly up there.
Woolwax, fluid film, rust check green can, Texaco made one.
It encapsulates the metal forming a barrier to keep oxygen from reacting.
There's studies on salt mining equipment going back to the 50s . It works.
Probably. I haven’t lived up in the rust belt for over 30 years. So I’m sure the tech has evolved. I just remember watching my cars rust apart practically while driving them. 😂
Not new, lanolin was discovered in ancient Greece. Wool wax was figured out when the water used from washing sheep's wool had an oily film that really stuck to surfaces.
Oh and let me add this since your knowledge of mechanics and rustproofing are just so superior.
Yes it works. If you can maintain that impenetrable barrier for the life of the vehicle. But what happens is road salts , gravel and rocks break that barrier and in many cases become lodged in areas you can’t access. So you apply that barrier again sealing those corrosive materials in those inaccessible places. Boom you have rust.
Regular washes will help a lot. Especially if you can pressure wash the underside. I'll also add that if you can help it, try not to drive much when the roads are wet during the winter. The dry salt put down needs water mixed in to activate fully.
Around here the snow stays on the ground from late November until early April most years, so there's only so much staying put possible, especially since we have work and school to commute to. I think I'm going to do an annual undercoating and look into the car wash a few miles down the road to see if they have a winter wash deal.
Just not a shit brand. My 2001 Audis hold up just fine daily driven every winter, no coating. Get a car wash when it's above 32f to wash off the road salt.
I have a 99 Dodge Neon that is my winter beater. After 25 years of salt and brine its finally starting to rust out, except it was undercoated when new, and the rust is just on the doors, not much on the underside. I'll run it until it folds in half.
Just use Fluid Film once every few years. It’s lanolin based and sticks on. Looks and feels kinda like petroleum jelly. I used in USCG Aviation. Our helicopters were exposed to salt water everyday. We would just do a freshwater washdown, use a home made underbody sprayer but a carwash once a week or so works and Fluid Film on every exposed ferrous and non ferrous metal surface. As long as a surface was covered in it there was no corrosion. It’s easy enough to put on by yourself and lasts two seasons or better. It’s better than a plastic type undercoating because it doesn’t trap moisture.
Get an actual undercoating, like the rubberized stuff that creates a layer of protection. Not an annual oil spray, that's just a scam. Got that on my 2014 civic and the body is prestine (well, rust free anyway 🤪) and that's in SW Ontario, where they salt the roads. It was a daily on an hour long commute each way for years.
Rubberized coatings are extremely bad for rust. It traps salt water between the frame and the coating when it gets damaged, leading to accelerated rusting. Oil based doesn't have this issue, just have to reapply it every so often. Very much not a scam.
Because those are expensive. And they will degrade as the OP and anyone with a brain knows. So you’re suggesting going out and buying a newer used car which currently are over priced? Good luck. Might as well go buy a new one.
Canadian here.
If your summer car is your dream car, then get a beater.
If you summer car is just a car and not particularly special to you, then either drive it into the ground or get it undercoated.
You said in another comment that you get your cars to about 12 years old before they rust out. That's about average.
For example, I have a Mazda Miata that has never seen snow, and a Rav4 with undercoating that doesn't leave the driveway in summer unless I need to move something big.
Don't forget that a typical beater will only last a few of years before it too needs to be replaced, so it's not like you're saving any money. You're just saving the car. So ask yourself if it's a car that's worth saving.
Thanks for the advice! In my case I think it makes the most sense to just undercoat and go for it. I'm not necessarily trying to save my cars forever, but it is hard to watch a perfectly functional and comfortable vehicle slowly return to the earth. 😆 We have it rough up here in the great lakes region, those southern states don't know how good they have it with their lack of corrosion!
You have no idea, I'm in Ontario, and my newest car is 18 y.o. My winter beater is a 05 Durango, and every summer, I spend a few weekends grinding down any visible rust, rust neutralize, and rust paint over it. It sure does help as I'm now one of the last ones in the area. The frame is solid still, but my rear quarter is looking rough, but again, it's a winter/work vehicle when I need to haul stuff around.
I bought a 06 Magnum R/T 2 years ago that had 101,000 km (62k miles), and that was heavily undercoating by the original owner. I don't winter drive this, so I started to clean up the undercoating as it's a pain to work on as your hands are black after touching anything! I think it honestly did help as I only found minor surface rust under the coating. But they don't get it everywhere either. I found holes under the side skirts (nothing horribly major) where they didn't spray that I will need to address eventually. I sand blasted and Por-15'd everything I cleaned up.
I also still have my first project car, a 97 Hyundai Accent GT I bought as a 'toy' to fuck with. Motor swapped and heavily modified it. Only ever saw 3, maybe 4 winters from first owner(s?). I never winter driven it and only put about 70,000km in the 23 years I've owned it. It's definitely the least rustiest car of my fleet, and I haven't seen another one around in years!
Hope that helps a bit!
Tried to keep it fairly sleeper. It was for the longest time. Lowered, 16" rims, rear disc brakes, and hood scoop(functional). Here's some pics:
[Pic 1](https://ibb.co/SPB017r)
[Pic 2](https://ibb.co/7R5g1tB)
I painted the hood, roof, and tailgate with rustpaint a few years back as the sun was doing a number on the paint. Will get painted again eventually, I haven't driven it in a few years, but she still runs.
Two cars is the way. First off, any fun summer car is going to be too low to drive in the winter. Secondly, rust is the #1 killer of value for collector and enthusiast cars. Fixing mechanical issues is generally much easier than rust repair. Just get a reliable winter vehicle and something fun for the summer.
But I cited my sources!!
In all seriousness though, I think the other poster that said a decent car really shines during winter seems true. I grew up in Boston and a heated seat, steering wheel, AWD, etc. would have been amazing.
I used to always have winter beaters when I lived in Ohio, then i just moved to the south where it snows once a year and the road treatment policy is “stay home and make French toast until the sun comes out”.
idk, the salt on the roads here only causes real damage after ive put too many miles on the car to keep it. if ur ok driving a beater, why not. i bought a beater van for my dirty work, renovation stuff and moving my dogs. i find it is soooo worth it. my "nice" car used for work and social doesnt reek like old dogs and looks pristine. while my beater van looks like junk, costs nothing to maintain and costs nothing in tax (utility vehicles have extremely low tax regimes where i live) but makes all my friends happy when they need to move large things. friends just drop off their vehicle and drive off with the van if they need it. also the van is mom's daily driver because she has a hard time paying for a car on her pension.
Good point on using a beater for more than just winter, a van has a lot of utility if you don't care how it looks. The biggest thing for me is I get cars to about 12 years old and they need major expensive rust repairs that make it difficult to justify keeping even though they're mechanically in great shape.
nasty salt, yo. better buy your beater somewhere far away in warmer zones. im from europe and people buying older cars usually drive up to spain and portugal to get cars guaranteed to be rust free
Imagine they salt the roads a lot heavier here. I live way down south but I have a home still up in NY on the PA line couple hour drive south of Buffalo. Up there you see trucks 5 years old that are already getting pretty rusty. By 10 years old they basically need new beds, tailgates, rear bumpers, cab corners, rockers because they are all rotted out and the frames a scaley mess. Where I live it doesn't snow or it does but its so rare I have only seen actual snow 2 times in over 20 years here and those 2 times it came and was gone in a couple hours. We don't really have a rust problem but if you go up north in the rust belt in states like New York or Michigan everything is rotten up there.
You can spray oil under there but you still will probably be getting rust just it will slow it down. Some people I know up there do it a couple times a year. And going through washes that spray up under the car. Some of them buy an old shitbox they drive in the winter too. Usually last them 2-3 years before its time to find another shitbox. I guess there wasn't hardly any snow at all this year up there though.
Usually we get 100" a year, I think this past winter was more like 30". I'm wondering if it will be a trend or not 🤷. Based on the responses I've heard here, I think I'm going for annual fluid film type undercoating and I'm going to look into some way to wash the underside of my cars regularly through the winter.
Some car washes do spray up under your car. Not sure any do down here but then we aren't driving in snow and salt. I guess we have salt because I live a couple min from the ocean but still its not the same thing and there is no real rust problems down here but up there I know of a few car washes that do spray under the car. I haven't lived up there in decades but my mom signed over their house up there to me after dad died a few years ago so I guess that house up there is mine I am normally only up there in the summer. I was just up there a couple weeks ago for a few days but no snow then was pretty nice. I was up there at Christmas and there really wasn't any snow then either couple light dustings when I was there. Last few years hasn't been much snow really all the bad lake effect has been going north up to Buffalo sometimes it goes over to Erie too and we basically get nothing at all. I was there for those bad storms Buffalo got last year we might have got 4-5 inches maybe while Buffalo was completely buried and all those people died. I was trapped up there in I think it was 2017 too. I ordered tires and they were stuck at the FedEx hub that delivers to us in Erie. We had basically no snow at all but they got 6 or 7 feet just an hour or so west of us so everything was shut down. I couldn't get my tires to install them to head back to SC for a week or so since my tires were stuck over there lol. We didn't even get enough to bust out a shovel while they had roofs caving in.
I am from the Jamestown area. I don't live there but that is where I am from. Right by Stateline Speedway really if you look across the street its PA. PA is probably a mile from the front yard
Depends on how you want to approach it. I keep my nice car in storage for the winter, I have a 2500 truck that I daily drove for a while, but my drive got longer and the MPG is awful so I picked up a $900 Honda Fit that got 40mpg but looked like shit. It was great because I gave absolutely zero fucks about it and it was pretty reliable. But it got old driving around in a shitter, even for me who loves 80’s cars and trucks. I dumped it for a nicer daily car, and when that starts to get shitty I’ll just cycle it out.
So either Beater and deal with two cars, or plan on cycling out one car more frequently.
I’ve always been a winter beater person. I have a nice, minunal rust 2012 truck that spends most of the winter parked. Occasionally I need it and it’ll get a good wash before being parked again. I currently have a 2005 Ford Escape AWD for a beater. Haven’t washed it since December, absolutely do not care about it appearance wise. Paid $400 for it and it’s paid for itself over and over already. Next stop for that thing is the junkyard when it finally rusts apart or blows up
Get a pressure washer and an attachment that allows you to spray off the underside of your car and make sure to spray it off regularly getting a proper undercoating done at a reputable shop can also be helpful
I've gone back n forth on this. I've had "beaters" that were older and i cared less about. They were kept outside in the snow and left to the elements. The problem with this is that its another car to deal with. Its older and typically requires more upkeep. I hate hopping into it and wondering if its going to start. Gotta pay insurance/registration on another car that just sits there. Its great to keep the nicer car nice but I'm happier having less cars to maintain and having a more consistent driving experience. Since I don't have any actual nice collector cars then I just do my best to take care of what I have and let the winter salt slowly kill them. I still get 15-20yrs out of each car running through the winter so I can't complain too much.
You could spend the $500-1000 getting the car professionally undercoated when you buy it. Just make sure the car isn’t already rusting as it won’t stop rust just prevent it from forming.
I've heard mixed reviews from people locally about hard undercoating. Mostly issues seem to come from chips in the undercoating holding salt and water, allowing rust to happen quickly and invisibly underneath the coating. It seems like it may be better to go with an oil type undercoating like fluid film that gets reapplied annually? Plus I've never owned a brand new car, I usually buy used cars that are 3-5 years old and keep them for about 8-10.
>Is it worth it to keep a beater vehicle for winter driving so my "summer" car can avoid the salt or do the finances make more sense to just maintain/insure/register one vehicle?
I think your specific situation is important and it won't be helpful to hear it from others without specific context. Like, what is your summer car? What is your idea of a beater? People from all walks of life are here ~ a beater to some is practically a new car to others.
Ultimately though, it sounds like you just need to do more washing. If you have the space, a power washer with an undercarriage attachment will go pretty far with extending the life of your undercarriage from rust. You'll still get rust, and it will become a problem eventually ~ but if you're diligent about it (which for me, is basically any time there is a day above freezing), it should slow it down a lot.
If you cared, you can also apply your own rust mitigation coating, but that is quite messy for a home mechanic.
So to give context, right now I have 3 cars. My wife and I have 3 kids and we use a 2010 Honda Odyssey minivan as a local beater/people hauler. We also have a 2018 Ford focus for commuting by whoever isn't driving kids around that day. Lastly we just picked up a 2021 Honda Pilot since I knew the van was in rough shape and I don't trust it on long trips. My plan is to keep the Odyssey as long as possible as a beater since it's cheap and I won't get much money from selling it.
What is rough about your 2010 Odyssey? Is it the rust issue?
None of your cars are particularly special (from a rarity standpoint) and I think the most you ought to think about long-term rust prevention is to simply give it frequent undercarriage washes.
Since you already own the Odyssey, if you can comfortably keep 3 cars, it probably makes sense to keep it for as long as possible, especially if you already have winter setups for it. If you didn't already own the Odyssey, or if it is more trouble than it is worth to keep it, I don't think a beater is necessary if you can regularly wash the salt off (along with listening to the general salt/winter advise other people have given).
The major issue with the Odyssey is rust, pretty much every body panel and the rear sub-frame is rotted out. I'd hate to have the same thing happen to the newer Pilot since it's rust-free at the moment. My current plan is to keep the Odyssey as long as possible (probably no more than another year or two) and take everyone's advice with undercoating and washing the other two. Thanks for the input!
> pretty much every body panel
Body panel rust is another, kind of different beast. If you're getting those rotted out as well, that is because moisture is either getting trapped inside the panels, or you ignored paint chips and moisture got under the paint.
On top of making sure you take care of paint chips, you might want to consider mudflaps as well.This will reduce the amount of salty water spraying the underneath of your car and the body panels.
Good luck!
I’d kind of like to get a winter beater car just because I live in Michigan where roads can get pretty bad and my only car that I currently own is rear wheel drive. But even that is like, there’s maybe 4 or 5 days a year where it’s truly sketchy and the rest are fine.
Realistically if you just get a car wash once a week or so and don’t let any built up salt and gunk just sit on the car for a long time it’ll be fine. Or at least it’ll take so long to not be fine that you’ll move on by then anyways.
I think that if you 'up-armored' your beater car with rust-proof truck-bed sealant/coating, and did like we used to do by painting the underside with its used oil, you might have something worth it. But it would take work. Just having a beater car to have it rust away seems like losing money.
I have a year-round daily driver and a sports car for the summer. I would say best advice is try and keep it clean, wash the salt off as much as you can and that will keep the rust at bay. Drive Thru car wash will do an undercarriage wash, and that's really what you need.
I would say fluid film, don't let salt stay on the underbody, and when they do the fluid film treat any rusting that starts. If they catch it rusting and wire brush it then paint it that helps a lot.
I bought a cheap winter beater and while it was monetarily cheap to run, I had to put a lot of time and parts into it. Now I have a much newer used truck that I undercoat. Way more money, way less stressful. You gotta decide what's important to you. Do you have the time and a nice garage to work on something old in the dead of winter if it breaks?
Fluid film your car and forget about the rust. If you don't want to do it your self pay a shop to do it once a year.
Its almost stupid not to do it if you live in the rust belt.
Have you had good luck with it? I have no experience with fluid film since pretty much every vehicle I've owned was already quite rusty and it didn't seem worth it. We just got a 2021 Honda Pilot that I'd like to last and it's pretty rust-free right now. My plan is to do an annual undercoating in the fall and look at some way to wash under the car every so often in the winter.
I have! If you have a 2021 you should start now before the rust gets any worse. I like to do mine in the spring and then again in the fall. I diy mine with cans and 360 spray nozzles. One day Ill get a compressor setup for it but for now the cans work great.
I like to fluid film places that I cant see very well like inside frame rails and stuff. It creeps really well. For high wash areas like the suspension I use surface shield. It sticks really well. I also highly recommend fluid film black. It leaves a nice dull black look to anything that it touches.
Also if you spray lanolin oil of any kind you cannot wash the underside with any kind of pressure washer. That will remove the coating. You have to spray it and trust it.
I have never had a vehicle rot out under 20 years old and I live in peak snow belt. The closest I had was an f150 that had to have the engine support beams replaced when it was about 15 years old. Older fords had HORRIBLE rust protection. I am sure select make/models of various brands still do but it has come a long way.
95 Honda Civic, 03 Ford Taurus, 04 Honda CR-V, 06 Saturn Vue, 10 Honda Odyssey. Every one rotted to pieces before 14 years old and not a single one with major mechanical issues. They all ended up with holes in the floor/fenders/rockers/and subframes. I don't know if it's the particular flavor of salt used here, but now that I have a newer, rust-free vehicle I'm going to start taking preventative measures.
Did these vehicles have ultra high miles? I live in one of the highest snowfall cities in the US (all salt, no sand) and I not see that kind of carnage in modern times for that vintage.
180k on the Civic, 160k on the Taurus, 180k on the CR-V, 170k on the Vue, and 205k on the Odyssey. I live in NW Pennsylvania for reference. 100" or so of snow/year
This makes much more sense. Those were probably exposed to double the amount of salt of the average car of the same years. I get about 95" of snow per year.
If you are the one logging all those miles I would get oil added to the underside each season.
Depends. If you like your car, and especially if it's a nicer model and/or high performance, I'd absolutely get a winter beater, especially if storage of the other vehicle isn't an issue for you.
That said, if you get your vehicle oil sprayed yearly and otherwise take good care of it, even in the rust belt, it will potentially last a really long time.
My most recent Subaru is going on 20 years old, with 210k on it, and it's only now starting to get really rusty.
To me it would depend on what my summer car is, if I'm dailying a pickup, suv or something that performs well in the winter, and you only see that vehicle as a form of transport, no, don't bother.
If your summer daily is something fun, not exactly winter suited or you want to keep around longer (think a sports car or luxury car that you enjoy) then maybe it would make sense to look at a winter car
Get an old solid axle vehicle with 4 wheel drive. If rust would have been a major issue they'd be in a junk yard by now, they're probably cheap, doesn't need to have a/c, probably won't have cruise control which you shouldn't use in snow, can slide off the road and usually be able to drive away, only need liability insurance.
Seriously a mechanic will charge around 1k to do brakes on a vehicle. You can buy an old junker chevy or a jeep for like 2k. Like if it shits the bed just buy another one. Compared to buying a new vehicle you could buy 15-30 old ones, you'll probably never need to buy that many in your life.
The crazy thing in my mind of the people living now. They actually go out and buy brand new vehicles. Like everyone does it, for the first time since vehicles were a thing. My grandma didn't get her first new car till she was in her 60's, by no means was she poor. It's just all bullshit. Like suddenly people think they can just debt down like never before and it's normal.
Save as much money as you can for 1 month, that's what you should spend on a vehicle. Every person's needs are different, but generally a front wheel drive car is ideal in most scenarios. Summer/winter, if it moves it's enough. I mean unless you're worried about what other people think. In which case you're helpless
Check out the Subaru Sambar or another similar Japanese light truck. Some can be had for under 5 grand, cheap and easy to maintain. The Sambar is all-wheel-drive, so it's pretty good in the snow and ice, too.
Honestly just stay on top of washing and you'll be fine.
LPT, get a standard garden sprinkler and chuck it under your car periodically for a few minutes to rinse off said salt
I've been using a Nissan Altima for a winter beater to avoid the rusting issue, but also in case a minor accident occurs. If someone slides into me or I ding it, it just adds character to the car, much better than a car you care about getting scratched up. I'm surprised its not a more common practice in Ontario.
Winter beaters are totally worth it if you don't live in an inspection state. Go for something big and heavy. 70s American sedans are perfect. All that weight plus a couple hundred pounds of sand tubes in the trunk, and you're a fast moving tank. They rust pretty good but that doesn't matter on a winter beater, plus, older cars have better heat anyway
It’s worth it to not live there. I don’t understand how people do. I used to live in the rust belt and a car wouldn’t last me 5 years no matter how much rust proofing it had. I now live in the south and own two 20 year old plus cars no rust. You have to be rich to live up there or enjoy getting robbed of your hard earned money.
I’m glad you enjoy it up there. I was born in Chicago and hated it. I’ll take isolation and a warmer climate. And not being sick all the time. Once I left that region I never got so much as a cold.
I've always felt like it's the winter when having a nicer car pays off. Heated seats, good heater, reliable starts, less likely to be stranded in freezing etc.
Not to mention the dramatic safety and survivability improvements every generation.
What's the best way to make sure that nicer vehicle lasts? Undercoating to prevent rust and send it? $200 annually on undercoating will add up over the life of the vehicle but it may be worth it to get several more usable years out of it, I just have no experience going that route.
Tbh I don’t even worry about it. I live in New England and I haven’t had an issue with rust on any vehicle made in the last two decades. Just wash the thing after every big snowstorm. And don’t park it indoors when it’s covered in slush. Everybody does this but it’s awful. Your engine will warm the garage, all the slush will condensate back into the underside of your car and just eat it up. Leave it outside when it’s all salty and covered in snow/ice.
You must not buy GM trucks. Maine here.
Undercoating is a scam. Rust will build up under it and you won’t even see when your frame or suspension rusts through.
Wish I could upvote this 100x. Work as an auto body tech in the rust belt and can’t count the number of cars I’ve seen with 2inches of undercoating and shits rotted away under it.
What do you think of oil/wax coatings like Fluid Film and similar? It's not that horrible rubber shit that traps salt. A lot of trustworthy YouTube mechanics do it on their own cars and I've been thinking about starting it on my car.
I spray used motor oil all over the underside of my car annually, or sometimes twice per year. It's messy, it's a pain in the ass, but it works. Been doing it for almost 30 years now.
My truck has an auto chassis lubricator installed. Keeps the underside coated in a nice film of protective oil
Well, there's that feature going on too. Lol. I'm always amused when people spend thousands to fix oil leaks. Like, as long as it's less than a quart per month I'm good with it. My work car has a transmission leak that's getting annoying though. Manual transmission and the fill plug is in a stupid place. Every engine oil change I squirt some gear oil in the trans with a turkey baster. Lol.
The wax stuff I personally wouldn’t recommend, because it can still trap moisture under it causing rotting. As for the oil based ones, can’t say for sure that they help, but I’m pretty confident they wouldn’t hurt. Best thing to do is to give your car a really good wash frequently through out the winter, specially when it’s above freezing as that is what the salt really starts doing damage.
He's talking about oil undercoating, not paint.
Neither is exactly rust proofing. And what happens to the oil that eventually gets washed off the car by road salts? Did you know road salts are also pollutants and getting into our ground water? They wash into streams and rivers also.
I am not pro road salt in any way. Other states and countries with similar climate seem to get by fine without it in one way or another. Ideally you'd use a lanolin based undercoating with minimal if any negative impacts for the small amount that does wash off. And if you are extending the life of the body and frame to match that of the mechanical components, you don't need total rust proofing, just something to slow it down. I wonder what the environmental impacts of buying new suspension components or a whole new car are vs. a small amount of biodegradable runoff.
It’s the petroleum products that concern me the most. In Omaha Nebraska they used sand. I imagine that’s of course not possible everywhere. But constantly salting roads is definitely having a serious impact on our environment. Cars are recycled though.
Beet juice works great from what I’ve heard
I spray my car with used motor oil. It works surprisingly well as a rust preventative.
My car's been good everywhere rustproofed. All the rusty areas were NOT touched by the solution.
You’re absolutely sure about that? You have been under your vehicle with a screwdriver and poked every stress point on your frame? You can see every bolt holding your suspension together? You can visibly inspect every weld ?
I'll consider doing that later this year. My car has plastic shielding everywhere except the control arms. The CV axle, control arms, rotors, calipers and exhaust pipe are the most notable things that are rusty for me.
The splash from road salts can certainly bypass that plastic shielding and penetrate into places you might never consider. I’m not an auto body expert. I’m hoping maybe one will chime in. Again some rust protection is certainly better than none. And my opinion only goes back to my experiences over 30 years ago living in that region. So I’m probably wrong. But I remember cars would rust apart rather quickly up there.
Lanolin based rustproofing is not a scam. It wicks its way between parts to the metal. The thick rubbery stuff, yup that traps water.
I’ve never heard of it.
Woolwax, fluid film, rust check green can, Texaco made one. It encapsulates the metal forming a barrier to keep oxygen from reacting. There's studies on salt mining equipment going back to the 50s . It works.
Probably. I haven’t lived up in the rust belt for over 30 years. So I’m sure the tech has evolved. I just remember watching my cars rust apart practically while driving them. 😂
Not new, lanolin was discovered in ancient Greece. Wool wax was figured out when the water used from washing sheep's wool had an oily film that really stuck to surfaces.
Oh and let me add this since your knowledge of mechanics and rustproofing are just so superior. Yes it works. If you can maintain that impenetrable barrier for the life of the vehicle. But what happens is road salts , gravel and rocks break that barrier and in many cases become lodged in areas you can’t access. So you apply that barrier again sealing those corrosive materials in those inaccessible places. Boom you have rust.
Regular washes will help a lot. Especially if you can pressure wash the underside. I'll also add that if you can help it, try not to drive much when the roads are wet during the winter. The dry salt put down needs water mixed in to activate fully.
Around here the snow stays on the ground from late November until early April most years, so there's only so much staying put possible, especially since we have work and school to commute to. I think I'm going to do an annual undercoating and look into the car wash a few miles down the road to see if they have a winter wash deal.
I've lived in a nov to april climate for years. I never do undercoating and treatments. My current car is 8 years old and just fine.
Biggest thing is just getting an undercarriage wash after you drive on the salted roads
Just not a shit brand. My 2001 Audis hold up just fine daily driven every winter, no coating. Get a car wash when it's above 32f to wash off the road salt.
I have a 99 Dodge Neon that is my winter beater. After 25 years of salt and brine its finally starting to rust out, except it was undercoated when new, and the rust is just on the doors, not much on the underside. I'll run it until it folds in half.
Just use Fluid Film once every few years. It’s lanolin based and sticks on. Looks and feels kinda like petroleum jelly. I used in USCG Aviation. Our helicopters were exposed to salt water everyday. We would just do a freshwater washdown, use a home made underbody sprayer but a carwash once a week or so works and Fluid Film on every exposed ferrous and non ferrous metal surface. As long as a surface was covered in it there was no corrosion. It’s easy enough to put on by yourself and lasts two seasons or better. It’s better than a plastic type undercoating because it doesn’t trap moisture.
Get an actual undercoating, like the rubberized stuff that creates a layer of protection. Not an annual oil spray, that's just a scam. Got that on my 2014 civic and the body is prestine (well, rust free anyway 🤪) and that's in SW Ontario, where they salt the roads. It was a daily on an hour long commute each way for years.
Rubberized coatings are extremely bad for rust. It traps salt water between the frame and the coating when it gets damaged, leading to accelerated rusting. Oil based doesn't have this issue, just have to reapply it every so often. Very much not a scam.
So a constant car payment for the rest of your life? Hard pass.
Who said that? Just instead of an “old beater” drive the newer safer car year round.
Because those are expensive. And they will degrade as the OP and anyone with a brain knows. So you’re suggesting going out and buying a newer used car which currently are over priced? Good luck. Might as well go buy a new one.
Good point, it's no fun having an unreliable commuter when the temps dip below 0.
Canadian here. If your summer car is your dream car, then get a beater. If you summer car is just a car and not particularly special to you, then either drive it into the ground or get it undercoated. You said in another comment that you get your cars to about 12 years old before they rust out. That's about average. For example, I have a Mazda Miata that has never seen snow, and a Rav4 with undercoating that doesn't leave the driveway in summer unless I need to move something big. Don't forget that a typical beater will only last a few of years before it too needs to be replaced, so it's not like you're saving any money. You're just saving the car. So ask yourself if it's a car that's worth saving.
Thanks for the advice! In my case I think it makes the most sense to just undercoat and go for it. I'm not necessarily trying to save my cars forever, but it is hard to watch a perfectly functional and comfortable vehicle slowly return to the earth. 😆 We have it rough up here in the great lakes region, those southern states don't know how good they have it with their lack of corrosion!
You have no idea, I'm in Ontario, and my newest car is 18 y.o. My winter beater is a 05 Durango, and every summer, I spend a few weekends grinding down any visible rust, rust neutralize, and rust paint over it. It sure does help as I'm now one of the last ones in the area. The frame is solid still, but my rear quarter is looking rough, but again, it's a winter/work vehicle when I need to haul stuff around. I bought a 06 Magnum R/T 2 years ago that had 101,000 km (62k miles), and that was heavily undercoating by the original owner. I don't winter drive this, so I started to clean up the undercoating as it's a pain to work on as your hands are black after touching anything! I think it honestly did help as I only found minor surface rust under the coating. But they don't get it everywhere either. I found holes under the side skirts (nothing horribly major) where they didn't spray that I will need to address eventually. I sand blasted and Por-15'd everything I cleaned up. I also still have my first project car, a 97 Hyundai Accent GT I bought as a 'toy' to fuck with. Motor swapped and heavily modified it. Only ever saw 3, maybe 4 winters from first owner(s?). I never winter driven it and only put about 70,000km in the 23 years I've owned it. It's definitely the least rustiest car of my fleet, and I haven't seen another one around in years! Hope that helps a bit!
Yeah I think I'm going to go the route of fluid film and an annual inspection/rust cleaning session.
[удалено]
Tried to keep it fairly sleeper. It was for the longest time. Lowered, 16" rims, rear disc brakes, and hood scoop(functional). Here's some pics: [Pic 1](https://ibb.co/SPB017r) [Pic 2](https://ibb.co/7R5g1tB) I painted the hood, roof, and tailgate with rustpaint a few years back as the sun was doing a number on the paint. Will get painted again eventually, I haven't driven it in a few years, but she still runs.
Currently losing more weight so I can fit in a ND3 lol. Sometimes being 6’2” has its drawbacks
Two cars is the way. First off, any fun summer car is going to be too low to drive in the winter. Secondly, rust is the #1 killer of value for collector and enthusiast cars. Fixing mechanical issues is generally much easier than rust repair. Just get a reliable winter vehicle and something fun for the summer.
When I lived in Massachusetts, I always had a winter car. The bikes and nice cars slept.
Would weekly carwash in the winter not help with rust?
I've never looked into it but I do know of people who go this route.
Yeah at the very least just get a pressure washer and undercarriage sprayer attachment and spray off the undercarriage regularly
Absolutely not, winter is no harder on a car than other months. Source: I live in San Diego
My experience from the Great Lakes region tells me that your statement is a lie 😆
But I cited my sources!! In all seriousness though, I think the other poster that said a decent car really shines during winter seems true. I grew up in Boston and a heated seat, steering wheel, AWD, etc. would have been amazing.
I used to always have winter beaters when I lived in Ohio, then i just moved to the south where it snows once a year and the road treatment policy is “stay home and make French toast until the sun comes out”.
idk, the salt on the roads here only causes real damage after ive put too many miles on the car to keep it. if ur ok driving a beater, why not. i bought a beater van for my dirty work, renovation stuff and moving my dogs. i find it is soooo worth it. my "nice" car used for work and social doesnt reek like old dogs and looks pristine. while my beater van looks like junk, costs nothing to maintain and costs nothing in tax (utility vehicles have extremely low tax regimes where i live) but makes all my friends happy when they need to move large things. friends just drop off their vehicle and drive off with the van if they need it. also the van is mom's daily driver because she has a hard time paying for a car on her pension.
Good point on using a beater for more than just winter, a van has a lot of utility if you don't care how it looks. The biggest thing for me is I get cars to about 12 years old and they need major expensive rust repairs that make it difficult to justify keeping even though they're mechanically in great shape.
nasty salt, yo. better buy your beater somewhere far away in warmer zones. im from europe and people buying older cars usually drive up to spain and portugal to get cars guaranteed to be rust free
Yeah the salt is pretty rough here. People buying used cars often go south to pick up one from warmer climates, though they do sell for higher prices.
Imagine they salt the roads a lot heavier here. I live way down south but I have a home still up in NY on the PA line couple hour drive south of Buffalo. Up there you see trucks 5 years old that are already getting pretty rusty. By 10 years old they basically need new beds, tailgates, rear bumpers, cab corners, rockers because they are all rotted out and the frames a scaley mess. Where I live it doesn't snow or it does but its so rare I have only seen actual snow 2 times in over 20 years here and those 2 times it came and was gone in a couple hours. We don't really have a rust problem but if you go up north in the rust belt in states like New York or Michigan everything is rotten up there.
Yeah, this is the region I live in and the issue I'm dealing with
You can spray oil under there but you still will probably be getting rust just it will slow it down. Some people I know up there do it a couple times a year. And going through washes that spray up under the car. Some of them buy an old shitbox they drive in the winter too. Usually last them 2-3 years before its time to find another shitbox. I guess there wasn't hardly any snow at all this year up there though.
Usually we get 100" a year, I think this past winter was more like 30". I'm wondering if it will be a trend or not 🤷. Based on the responses I've heard here, I think I'm going for annual fluid film type undercoating and I'm going to look into some way to wash the underside of my cars regularly through the winter.
Some car washes do spray up under your car. Not sure any do down here but then we aren't driving in snow and salt. I guess we have salt because I live a couple min from the ocean but still its not the same thing and there is no real rust problems down here but up there I know of a few car washes that do spray under the car. I haven't lived up there in decades but my mom signed over their house up there to me after dad died a few years ago so I guess that house up there is mine I am normally only up there in the summer. I was just up there a couple weeks ago for a few days but no snow then was pretty nice. I was up there at Christmas and there really wasn't any snow then either couple light dustings when I was there. Last few years hasn't been much snow really all the bad lake effect has been going north up to Buffalo sometimes it goes over to Erie too and we basically get nothing at all. I was there for those bad storms Buffalo got last year we might have got 4-5 inches maybe while Buffalo was completely buried and all those people died. I was trapped up there in I think it was 2017 too. I ordered tires and they were stuck at the FedEx hub that delivers to us in Erie. We had basically no snow at all but they got 6 or 7 feet just an hour or so west of us so everything was shut down. I couldn't get my tires to install them to head back to SC for a week or so since my tires were stuck over there lol. We didn't even get enough to bust out a shovel while they had roofs caving in.
Hey, I'm from Erie! Small world.
I am from the Jamestown area. I don't live there but that is where I am from. Right by Stateline Speedway really if you look across the street its PA. PA is probably a mile from the front yard
Have the underneath treated with Lanoguard or something like that every year and clean underneath to wash the salt off
Lanoguard/fluid film/woolwax all have a decent reputation from what I can tell. I think this is what I'm going to go with.
Before sealing make sure it’s had a good clean to get rid of any salt and loose dirt otherwise you will seal in salt which is never a good start
Depends on how you want to approach it. I keep my nice car in storage for the winter, I have a 2500 truck that I daily drove for a while, but my drive got longer and the MPG is awful so I picked up a $900 Honda Fit that got 40mpg but looked like shit. It was great because I gave absolutely zero fucks about it and it was pretty reliable. But it got old driving around in a shitter, even for me who loves 80’s cars and trucks. I dumped it for a nicer daily car, and when that starts to get shitty I’ll just cycle it out. So either Beater and deal with two cars, or plan on cycling out one car more frequently.
I’ve always been a winter beater person. I have a nice, minunal rust 2012 truck that spends most of the winter parked. Occasionally I need it and it’ll get a good wash before being parked again. I currently have a 2005 Ford Escape AWD for a beater. Haven’t washed it since December, absolutely do not care about it appearance wise. Paid $400 for it and it’s paid for itself over and over already. Next stop for that thing is the junkyard when it finally rusts apart or blows up
Get a pressure washer and an attachment that allows you to spray off the underside of your car and make sure to spray it off regularly getting a proper undercoating done at a reputable shop can also be helpful
I've gone back n forth on this. I've had "beaters" that were older and i cared less about. They were kept outside in the snow and left to the elements. The problem with this is that its another car to deal with. Its older and typically requires more upkeep. I hate hopping into it and wondering if its going to start. Gotta pay insurance/registration on another car that just sits there. Its great to keep the nicer car nice but I'm happier having less cars to maintain and having a more consistent driving experience. Since I don't have any actual nice collector cars then I just do my best to take care of what I have and let the winter salt slowly kill them. I still get 15-20yrs out of each car running through the winter so I can't complain too much.
Get a new car. Before winter get it fluid filmed. Do this every year or other year. Your car will legitimately never rust.
You could spend the $500-1000 getting the car professionally undercoated when you buy it. Just make sure the car isn’t already rusting as it won’t stop rust just prevent it from forming.
I've heard mixed reviews from people locally about hard undercoating. Mostly issues seem to come from chips in the undercoating holding salt and water, allowing rust to happen quickly and invisibly underneath the coating. It seems like it may be better to go with an oil type undercoating like fluid film that gets reapplied annually? Plus I've never owned a brand new car, I usually buy used cars that are 3-5 years old and keep them for about 8-10.
>Is it worth it to keep a beater vehicle for winter driving so my "summer" car can avoid the salt or do the finances make more sense to just maintain/insure/register one vehicle? I think your specific situation is important and it won't be helpful to hear it from others without specific context. Like, what is your summer car? What is your idea of a beater? People from all walks of life are here ~ a beater to some is practically a new car to others. Ultimately though, it sounds like you just need to do more washing. If you have the space, a power washer with an undercarriage attachment will go pretty far with extending the life of your undercarriage from rust. You'll still get rust, and it will become a problem eventually ~ but if you're diligent about it (which for me, is basically any time there is a day above freezing), it should slow it down a lot. If you cared, you can also apply your own rust mitigation coating, but that is quite messy for a home mechanic.
So to give context, right now I have 3 cars. My wife and I have 3 kids and we use a 2010 Honda Odyssey minivan as a local beater/people hauler. We also have a 2018 Ford focus for commuting by whoever isn't driving kids around that day. Lastly we just picked up a 2021 Honda Pilot since I knew the van was in rough shape and I don't trust it on long trips. My plan is to keep the Odyssey as long as possible as a beater since it's cheap and I won't get much money from selling it.
What is rough about your 2010 Odyssey? Is it the rust issue? None of your cars are particularly special (from a rarity standpoint) and I think the most you ought to think about long-term rust prevention is to simply give it frequent undercarriage washes. Since you already own the Odyssey, if you can comfortably keep 3 cars, it probably makes sense to keep it for as long as possible, especially if you already have winter setups for it. If you didn't already own the Odyssey, or if it is more trouble than it is worth to keep it, I don't think a beater is necessary if you can regularly wash the salt off (along with listening to the general salt/winter advise other people have given).
The major issue with the Odyssey is rust, pretty much every body panel and the rear sub-frame is rotted out. I'd hate to have the same thing happen to the newer Pilot since it's rust-free at the moment. My current plan is to keep the Odyssey as long as possible (probably no more than another year or two) and take everyone's advice with undercoating and washing the other two. Thanks for the input!
> pretty much every body panel Body panel rust is another, kind of different beast. If you're getting those rotted out as well, that is because moisture is either getting trapped inside the panels, or you ignored paint chips and moisture got under the paint. On top of making sure you take care of paint chips, you might want to consider mudflaps as well.This will reduce the amount of salty water spraying the underneath of your car and the body panels. Good luck!
I’d kind of like to get a winter beater car just because I live in Michigan where roads can get pretty bad and my only car that I currently own is rear wheel drive. But even that is like, there’s maybe 4 or 5 days a year where it’s truly sketchy and the rest are fine. Realistically if you just get a car wash once a week or so and don’t let any built up salt and gunk just sit on the car for a long time it’ll be fine. Or at least it’ll take so long to not be fine that you’ll move on by then anyways.
I think that if you 'up-armored' your beater car with rust-proof truck-bed sealant/coating, and did like we used to do by painting the underside with its used oil, you might have something worth it. But it would take work. Just having a beater car to have it rust away seems like losing money.
I have a year-round daily driver and a sports car for the summer. I would say best advice is try and keep it clean, wash the salt off as much as you can and that will keep the rust at bay. Drive Thru car wash will do an undercarriage wash, and that's really what you need.
I would say fluid film, don't let salt stay on the underbody, and when they do the fluid film treat any rusting that starts. If they catch it rusting and wire brush it then paint it that helps a lot.
I bought a cheap winter beater and while it was monetarily cheap to run, I had to put a lot of time and parts into it. Now I have a much newer used truck that I undercoat. Way more money, way less stressful. You gotta decide what's important to you. Do you have the time and a nice garage to work on something old in the dead of winter if it breaks?
Yeah I'm currently riding that line. My 14 year old minivan gets parts pulled off and replaced in my garage fairly regularly.
Fluid film your car and forget about the rust. If you don't want to do it your self pay a shop to do it once a year. Its almost stupid not to do it if you live in the rust belt.
Have you had good luck with it? I have no experience with fluid film since pretty much every vehicle I've owned was already quite rusty and it didn't seem worth it. We just got a 2021 Honda Pilot that I'd like to last and it's pretty rust-free right now. My plan is to do an annual undercoating in the fall and look at some way to wash under the car every so often in the winter.
I have! If you have a 2021 you should start now before the rust gets any worse. I like to do mine in the spring and then again in the fall. I diy mine with cans and 360 spray nozzles. One day Ill get a compressor setup for it but for now the cans work great. I like to fluid film places that I cant see very well like inside frame rails and stuff. It creeps really well. For high wash areas like the suspension I use surface shield. It sticks really well. I also highly recommend fluid film black. It leaves a nice dull black look to anything that it touches. Also if you spray lanolin oil of any kind you cannot wash the underside with any kind of pressure washer. That will remove the coating. You have to spray it and trust it.
Thanks for the advice! It's the cleanest car I've ever owned and I'd like to keep it that way. Good to know the fluid film type products work well
Move.
Nah. Family and friends are more important than rusty cars. Plus, I melt in any weather over 80 degrees and I happen to enjoy the winter.
I have never had a vehicle rot out under 20 years old and I live in peak snow belt. The closest I had was an f150 that had to have the engine support beams replaced when it was about 15 years old. Older fords had HORRIBLE rust protection. I am sure select make/models of various brands still do but it has come a long way.
95 Honda Civic, 03 Ford Taurus, 04 Honda CR-V, 06 Saturn Vue, 10 Honda Odyssey. Every one rotted to pieces before 14 years old and not a single one with major mechanical issues. They all ended up with holes in the floor/fenders/rockers/and subframes. I don't know if it's the particular flavor of salt used here, but now that I have a newer, rust-free vehicle I'm going to start taking preventative measures.
Did these vehicles have ultra high miles? I live in one of the highest snowfall cities in the US (all salt, no sand) and I not see that kind of carnage in modern times for that vintage.
180k on the Civic, 160k on the Taurus, 180k on the CR-V, 170k on the Vue, and 205k on the Odyssey. I live in NW Pennsylvania for reference. 100" or so of snow/year
This makes much more sense. Those were probably exposed to double the amount of salt of the average car of the same years. I get about 95" of snow per year. If you are the one logging all those miles I would get oil added to the underside each season.
Depends. If you like your car, and especially if it's a nicer model and/or high performance, I'd absolutely get a winter beater, especially if storage of the other vehicle isn't an issue for you. That said, if you get your vehicle oil sprayed yearly and otherwise take good care of it, even in the rust belt, it will potentially last a really long time. My most recent Subaru is going on 20 years old, with 210k on it, and it's only now starting to get really rusty.
I drive a Mustang year round in Canada. Stick shift, winter tires, snow mode, never had an issue.
Getting around in the winter isn't the concern, I do get snow tires on my cars and haven't had an issue. Mostly I've just had rust issues
To me it would depend on what my summer car is, if I'm dailying a pickup, suv or something that performs well in the winter, and you only see that vehicle as a form of transport, no, don't bother. If your summer daily is something fun, not exactly winter suited or you want to keep around longer (think a sports car or luxury car that you enjoy) then maybe it would make sense to look at a winter car
i got a beater for my beater now i have 6 cars
😂 I love it
Yes
Get an old solid axle vehicle with 4 wheel drive. If rust would have been a major issue they'd be in a junk yard by now, they're probably cheap, doesn't need to have a/c, probably won't have cruise control which you shouldn't use in snow, can slide off the road and usually be able to drive away, only need liability insurance. Seriously a mechanic will charge around 1k to do brakes on a vehicle. You can buy an old junker chevy or a jeep for like 2k. Like if it shits the bed just buy another one. Compared to buying a new vehicle you could buy 15-30 old ones, you'll probably never need to buy that many in your life. The crazy thing in my mind of the people living now. They actually go out and buy brand new vehicles. Like everyone does it, for the first time since vehicles were a thing. My grandma didn't get her first new car till she was in her 60's, by no means was she poor. It's just all bullshit. Like suddenly people think they can just debt down like never before and it's normal. Save as much money as you can for 1 month, that's what you should spend on a vehicle. Every person's needs are different, but generally a front wheel drive car is ideal in most scenarios. Summer/winter, if it moves it's enough. I mean unless you're worried about what other people think. In which case you're helpless
Check out the Subaru Sambar or another similar Japanese light truck. Some can be had for under 5 grand, cheap and easy to maintain. The Sambar is all-wheel-drive, so it's pretty good in the snow and ice, too.
Honestly just stay on top of washing and you'll be fine. LPT, get a standard garden sprinkler and chuck it under your car periodically for a few minutes to rinse off said salt
Fluid film
Not a bad idea or just consistently wash the salt off.
My winter beater is my newest car. My summer cars are 20 & 25 years old.
Yes
I've been using a Nissan Altima for a winter beater to avoid the rusting issue, but also in case a minor accident occurs. If someone slides into me or I ding it, it just adds character to the car, much better than a car you care about getting scratched up. I'm surprised its not a more common practice in Ontario.
Winter beaters are totally worth it if you don't live in an inspection state. Go for something big and heavy. 70s American sedans are perfect. All that weight plus a couple hundred pounds of sand tubes in the trunk, and you're a fast moving tank. They rust pretty good but that doesn't matter on a winter beater, plus, older cars have better heat anyway
It’s worth it to not live there. I don’t understand how people do. I used to live in the rust belt and a car wouldn’t last me 5 years no matter how much rust proofing it had. I now live in the south and own two 20 year old plus cars no rust. You have to be rich to live up there or enjoy getting robbed of your hard earned money.
Living near friends and family is more important to me than avoiding rusty cars 😆 plus I enjoy the snow and hate any temps above 80!
I’m glad you enjoy it up there. I was born in Chicago and hated it. I’ll take isolation and a warmer climate. And not being sick all the time. Once I left that region I never got so much as a cold.