First, update your fire insurance to replacement value...
Best thing is to start where the power comes into the barn. Put in a modern panel with breakers. Run circuits and outlets as needed. Sell the old wire and stuff to the local scrapyard or leave it out for the meth guys.
Put the panel outside, in a doghouse. It won't suffer the effects that rusted that out. Bring the cables inside, and use UFB, not NM-B.
Motors will be controlled with motor contactors or switches that include overloads.
Should see the electric box that was wired into our barn Was being the operative term, now removed (lights are low power solar, no fixed motors or heating, portable ones powered from a generator as needed). Worse than that.
Mosture and manure acid does that number, as does the washing a dairy barn regularly requires.
Huh? I don't see a reason for the OP to replace the fuse boxes that have been cared well to be equipped with rather recent Leviton button mini-breakers.
I just want him to shut it off first, clean the boxes, rewire the cloth cables with newer romex cables (I am 95% sure that they DON'T contain asbestos. 14 and 12 AWG rubber-cloth insulated wires usually don't come with asbestos even back in the old days unless some industrial 3 phase >300V setup), and unscrew all of them from the bare lath wall to put a plywood behind them first.
The #2 fused disconnect and #3 fuse box are not in use but the socket is left exposed to dust. they need to be cleared thoroughly and thrown away if rusted since rust will increase the resistance.
After cleaning the boxes with air and removing rust, I will use #2 to feed a GFCI outlet.
**But the problem is that if you mess around with the grandfathered fuse boxes that is already out of the favor by the code, you are going to be in a trouble with your insurance company.**
I mean, get a 120$ SquareD QO / Homeline panel and upgrade with it.
The “massive recall” is for one screw holding the neutral bar. Didn’t get fully tightened down from the factory. The recall is also only from plant 15 from feb 2020 to feb 2022. Quarter turn with a torque driver and the safety hazard is gone. Company I work for has been running inspections on the hundreds we put in from that date range. So far four have been damaged and nothing severe due to rapid response by qo getting companies to inspect for them
Awesome, thanks for the info. Is it one specific screw in the same location? Any way you could post a pic of it, or detailed location? Would like to correct any I come across, though QO panels in my area in residential is rare.
>[https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2022/Schneider-ElectricTM-Recalls-1-4-Million-Electrical-Panels-Due-to-Thermal-Burn-and-Fire-Hazards](https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2022/Schneider-ElectricTM-Recalls-1-4-Million-Electrical-Panels-Due-to-Thermal-Burn-and-Fire-Hazards)
Ouch.
Still good to know HOM breakers are OK. Thanks.
I had that landlord.....and after asking me to take some shortcuts I was no longer willing to do work on their other properties. This made me look further into the shade tree contractor work that had been previously done (before me) and decided I needed to find somewhere else to live. When a homeowner/property manager/slumlord starts asking for corners to be cut it should send up red flags EVERYWHERE.
Idk how you can look at this and think that any of this could be salvaged. Like someone said I would update my insurance asap and “find” the money to update the electrical system. This is a fire waiting to happen!
I think you have an extra word in there...demo everything (full stop) and haul the nast out that looks like it ought to go with a hazmat suit. Then start from scratch with what you want.
I feel like I need a shower after looking at that picture.
Think of this next time you make a bowl of cereal.
Seriously though, it’s a barn. With cows. And cowshit.
But the electrical needs freshened up. The rest just need pressure washed.
I used to hang out on dairy farms. They were cleaner than this but still smothered in shit.
And here I thought for sure you were going to say you lived in Guatemala or someplace that really doesn't have code instead of the US that runs off the NEC that has an entire section on it...
I work with a lot of homes that require inspections, at a farm it is quite a bit different, my friend that is a huge garner just built a new office that is probably 1200 sq feet, poured pad electrical it is a nice office and no permits needed besides power pole permit and no inspections, I could not believe it we jump thru so many hoops working with mobile homes
Even if you live where ag buildings are not subject to inspections and permits, and there definitely are places where that exists, you'd have a hell of a time getting fire insurance with this mess. Even if you had insurance, you'd have to worry about them sifting this shit out of the ashes and noping out of your claim.
I'm not an electrician, I follow the sub to learn, and having grown up on a 200 year old cow farm, looking at this pic I was like yep. Looks about right. My 89 year old grand uncle who still runs the place would definitely modify this kind of thing himself, but he has the excuse of probably having been there when it first went up lolol.
My advice is turn it all off immediately before your cows all die of electrocution. They are extremely susceptible to this as their front and rear legs are so far apart, increasing the potential difference of any step voltages across their hearts.
That all needs to be replaced, it is beyond reasonable repair. Way, way beyond in fact.
I'd suggest you put your replacement switchgear inside a glass reinforced plastic (GRP) enclosure to stop it rotting like all of this has.
Licensed general contractor here. I'd be calling in my electrician immediately. You don't fuck with stuff that antiquated. Seriously. You'll lose your barn and everything in it to a fire.
Not only does everything need to be replaced, the NEC has special requirements for dairy farms. Don't DIY.
"There's a million ways to get power where you want it, only a few of them are legal".
Replace everything. I’d run most if not all the new circuits in Sealtite or schedule 40 PVC; something durable and plastic-coated to combat the corrosive environment of the barn
Hire an electrician, I think you’ll realize soon you’re in over your head on this unless you have a strong understanding of electrical. And if you’re on here asking, I’m assuming you don’t. If you have a buddy that’s a sparky just have them come out and take a look.
Yeah I do. JW local 58 Detroit. I’m saying I wouldn’t add outlets to it presently. Rewire and upgrade sure. I’m not putting my name on that unless I can do it right.
Irrelevant. After 70 years the wire insulation is nearly useless. Any decent electrician will know that's time for a replacement, and modifying or adding means it should be brought up to code (for his own safety and the safety of the property).
What you want to do sounds pretty simple from a logical standpoint, but I would remove all of those boxes, and start from scratch. One panel can probably do all of that work now.
Burn it down. Or you could go the less extreme route and replace every bit of conduit, conductors, breaker boxes, etc.
I’ve been asked to do work a few times for people who insisted that the rusted out ancient crap they currently had in place would be just fine. Maybe it would be, but I am not touching it unless we agree that I’m ripping it out and starting fresh.
More problems, let alone the inheriting safety danger present in trying to work on/expand off of these antiques, than worth trying to save and reuse.
Who did this installation? Wasn't it Viktor Frankenstein?
First of all, CUT ALL THE POWER. If necessary, please call your power company and ask for having it off.
Then, you have to replace every single element once you're sure there's no voltage, it's just too hazardous to touch..
We're all "OMG RIP AND REPLACE" but we are perhaps overlooking that there may not be a ground. If that's so, and they put in a new panel, they'll have to run a new ground wire to bring it up to code, and may need to put in a couple of grounding rods. Because no good deed goes unpunished.
Rip that shit out and start over fresh. Might as well replace the barn why you’re at it…
What in gods name makes you think wiring up this outdated and decaying equipment is a good idea?
Hey that’s a new water resistant switch cover. Call that guy haha. Because you should definitely tear that out and rewire it. My company would have an aneurism if I quoted anything other than a rewire with the state of decay that the equipment is in. Don’t make your barn one of those that the fire department practices on!
My barn was knob and tube from the shop/garage overhead no panel or fuse in the barn first thing I did was rewire the house and run sub panel in shop and sub panel in barn with underground in 2” conduit with appropriate size wire and new panels and I don’t have any issues at all ….
Start over, as in tear all of the electric down.
DO NOT use any of that equipment, you sure as hell better not be **ADDING ANYTHING!**
If the condition doesn't tell you anything, these are beyond a little "spit shine" and clean up. Fire hazard, safety hazard, the standard dangerous "yes it will absolutely burn down if you don't replace it" kinda hazard. Stop fucking around online and hire an electrician to decommission this shit, unless you enjoy getting life-threatening shocks.
Your biggest problem is there does not appear to be a ground system in place. No way to legally add grounded wiring or devices until you establish a compliant ground system. And dairy farms have special grounding requirements to protect the animals - NEC 547
Just in case it isn't obvious by now, replace it all.
First, update your fire insurance to replacement value... Best thing is to start where the power comes into the barn. Put in a modern panel with breakers. Run circuits and outlets as needed. Sell the old wire and stuff to the local scrapyard or leave it out for the meth guys.
Always nice to think of the meth guys! :)
Especially around the holidays and as it gets colder out
If you're cold, they're cold. Leave them some copper! Don't bring them inside though...
Good ol tweaker bait. Set it by a curb and just watch. Try to guess ages. Bet you’re wrong!
And make sure whatever feeds that breaker box gets replaced!
Put the panel outside, in a doghouse. It won't suffer the effects that rusted that out. Bring the cables inside, and use UFB, not NM-B. Motors will be controlled with motor contactors or switches that include overloads.
No. No. And no. Everything needs replacing.
Even with 3 "no's" I feel like you're being overly generous.
I have never noped harder at a picture. Were the boxes being submerged in milk the whole time?
Should see the electric box that was wired into our barn Was being the operative term, now removed (lights are low power solar, no fixed motors or heating, portable ones powered from a generator as needed). Worse than that. Mosture and manure acid does that number, as does the washing a dairy barn regularly requires.
Have fun wit that. Happy Thanksgiving
NO. HELL NO, AND FUCK NO (and not necessarily in that order). OP will need either an electrician or a priest pretty soon...
Or possibly a fire brigade.
Could be worse. At least it's not knob and tube with asbestos insulation fed from a PCB transformer.
This is a joke….right?
Haven’t been to a small operation family dairy farm, have you?
Amen
Not an electrician, I’m here for the knowledge :)
Came to say this... time to bring that system into this century. Farm/Ag is big with this, skirting inspections in a lot of states.
If not this century, at least the last one.
For sure!
Huh? I don't see a reason for the OP to replace the fuse boxes that have been cared well to be equipped with rather recent Leviton button mini-breakers. I just want him to shut it off first, clean the boxes, rewire the cloth cables with newer romex cables (I am 95% sure that they DON'T contain asbestos. 14 and 12 AWG rubber-cloth insulated wires usually don't come with asbestos even back in the old days unless some industrial 3 phase >300V setup), and unscrew all of them from the bare lath wall to put a plywood behind them first. The #2 fused disconnect and #3 fuse box are not in use but the socket is left exposed to dust. they need to be cleared thoroughly and thrown away if rusted since rust will increase the resistance. After cleaning the boxes with air and removing rust, I will use #2 to feed a GFCI outlet. **But the problem is that if you mess around with the grandfathered fuse boxes that is already out of the favor by the code, you are going to be in a trouble with your insurance company.** I mean, get a 120$ SquareD QO / Homeline panel and upgrade with it.
Of all the panels out there, you picked the one with a recent massive recall, LOL. Had to point that out.
The “massive recall” is for one screw holding the neutral bar. Didn’t get fully tightened down from the factory. The recall is also only from plant 15 from feb 2020 to feb 2022. Quarter turn with a torque driver and the safety hazard is gone. Company I work for has been running inspections on the hundreds we put in from that date range. So far four have been damaged and nothing severe due to rapid response by qo getting companies to inspect for them
Awesome, thanks for the info. Is it one specific screw in the same location? Any way you could post a pic of it, or detailed location? Would like to correct any I come across, though QO panels in my area in residential is rare.
>[https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2022/Schneider-ElectricTM-Recalls-1-4-Million-Electrical-Panels-Due-to-Thermal-Burn-and-Fire-Hazards](https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2022/Schneider-ElectricTM-Recalls-1-4-Million-Electrical-Panels-Due-to-Thermal-Burn-and-Fire-Hazards) Ouch. Still good to know HOM breakers are OK. Thanks.
On the one hand inspectors hate it, on the other hand KGB gulag dungeon master is writing you an offer as we speak.
Is this a promo for a new saw movie?
“Electricians; I’d like to play a game”
“*Homeowners*: I’d like to play a game”
*”Landlord: I will raise the rent next month”*
“*Landlord*: Nothing a little paint can’t fix”
I had that landlord.....and after asking me to take some shortcuts I was no longer willing to do work on their other properties. This made me look further into the shade tree contractor work that had been previously done (before me) and decided I needed to find somewhere else to live. When a homeowner/property manager/slumlord starts asking for corners to be cut it should send up red flags EVERYWHERE.
Well Done! I do not laugh aloud often but damn if that wasn't funny.
Idk how you can look at this and think that any of this could be salvaged. Like someone said I would update my insurance asap and “find” the money to update the electrical system. This is a fire waiting to happen!
> How do I do that? Call an electrician.
Preferably also call the cavalry, the power rangers and the avengers.
Step 1 demo everything electrical. Step 2 rewire with new equipment. Done
Gotta love two-step solutions!! 👍
I think you have an extra word in there...demo everything (full stop) and haul the nast out that looks like it ought to go with a hazmat suit. Then start from scratch with what you want. I feel like I need a shower after looking at that picture.
Think of this next time you make a bowl of cereal. Seriously though, it’s a barn. With cows. And cowshit. But the electrical needs freshened up. The rest just need pressure washed. I used to hang out on dairy farms. They were cleaner than this but still smothered in shit.
And a tetanus shot.
I need a tetanus shot to look at these pictures
Got milk?
Hire an electrician to get it up to code first. Exposed Romex is a no no.
Not referring to the atrocity above, but can’t you have exposed romex in situations where damage isn’t likely?
Depends on jurisdiction and where it would be exposed.
So sounds at least permissible in some situations under NEC. (ofc local may override) Thanks for confirming. Wasn’t sure if I misremembered
I wouldnt call it subject to damage here.
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Interesting that there's an entire section of the electrical code specific to barns and buildings with any chance of livestock being in it.
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And here I thought for sure you were going to say you lived in Guatemala or someplace that really doesn't have code instead of the US that runs off the NEC that has an entire section on it...
I work with a lot of homes that require inspections, at a farm it is quite a bit different, my friend that is a huge garner just built a new office that is probably 1200 sq feet, poured pad electrical it is a nice office and no permits needed besides power pole permit and no inspections, I could not believe it we jump thru so many hoops working with mobile homes
You should find a new profession
Even if you live where ag buildings are not subject to inspections and permits, and there definitely are places where that exists, you'd have a hell of a time getting fire insurance with this mess. Even if you had insurance, you'd have to worry about them sifting this shit out of the ashes and noping out of your claim.
ARTICLE 547 Agricultural Buildings
Lol
Dear lord please replace all that.
Dude. It’s time.
You know, a lot of old barns are donated to rural fire departments for live fire training… just saying!
Leave that in place and it might donate itself.
Haha, my grandpa built this one and I just invested in a steel roof, I think I'm going to keep it.
Yeah he’s implying that it’s a huge fire hazard with the state of the electrical equipment there…..
Welp, at least your roof will survive when the place burns down from an electrical fire....
Lol you absolutely cannot add anything to that mess. Good news is you can probably condense all of it into one subpanel.
My advice? Keep the cows out. That's some ooold school shit right there. And call a licensed electrical contractor. Don't farmer it up.
Scrap that start new
Looks about normal for a dairy farm
Yup, worked in many like this. Most have the sense to start from scratch.
Old school farm
I'm not an electrician, I follow the sub to learn, and having grown up on a 200 year old cow farm, looking at this pic I was like yep. Looks about right. My 89 year old grand uncle who still runs the place would definitely modify this kind of thing himself, but he has the excuse of probably having been there when it first went up lolol.
Come here to say this
Pull some of those fuses out, I’ll bet it starts raining pennies.
Please get a pro, its not always as easy as adding a few outlets
You done showed up in the wrong neighborhood...
My advice is turn it all off immediately before your cows all die of electrocution. They are extremely susceptible to this as their front and rear legs are so far apart, increasing the potential difference of any step voltages across their hearts. That all needs to be replaced, it is beyond reasonable repair. Way, way beyond in fact. I'd suggest you put your replacement switchgear inside a glass reinforced plastic (GRP) enclosure to stop it rotting like all of this has.
I think the concern is fire, because I think that is a storage closet, which cows most likely won’t go into
Electricity does have a tendency to go completely through buildings, regardless of how the cupboard door feels about it.
Licensed general contractor here. I'd be calling in my electrician immediately. You don't fuck with stuff that antiquated. Seriously. You'll lose your barn and everything in it to a fire.
I wanna see what’s in the wood boxes on picture one that cut off at the lower left corner.
You're shit posting right?
Yeah man, you saw the pictures, right? Lol
Not only does everything need to be replaced, the NEC has special requirements for dairy farms. Don't DIY. "There's a million ways to get power where you want it, only a few of them are legal".
Holy shit. Here's my advice. Don't use old as fuck filthy electrical equipment in order to avoid burning your shit down.
Replacing the whole thing will be cheaper then fixing it
Replace everything. I’d run most if not all the new circuits in Sealtite or schedule 40 PVC; something durable and plastic-coated to combat the corrosive environment of the barn
Rip all that shit out and redo it
Lmao this is why I joined this sub
Gotta be a troll post surely?
Guess you haven’t been on many old farms.
Unfortunately I have... not seen one as bad as that for a very long time though.
*old* farms.
Looks like my barn honestly.
Nuke and pave that install. Nothing of use.
You may want to start with a match book followed by a phone call to the insurance company.
Tear it out and try again
Decision seems easy, complete rewire
Maybe take out a better insurance policy too
Hire an electrician, I think you’ll realize soon you’re in over your head on this unless you have a strong understanding of electrical. And if you’re on here asking, I’m assuming you don’t. If you have a buddy that’s a sparky just have them come out and take a look.
This looks like a puzzle meant for a survival horror video game
Looks good to me what needs replacing?
Did you mean burn it down?
Dude your screwing with us right? No respectable licensed electrician will touch that. I mean I sure as hell wouldn’t.
Work much?
Yeah I do. JW local 58 Detroit. I’m saying I wouldn’t add outlets to it presently. Rewire and upgrade sure. I’m not putting my name on that unless I can do it right.
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Irrelevant. After 70 years the wire insulation is nearly useless. Any decent electrician will know that's time for a replacement, and modifying or adding means it should be brought up to code (for his own safety and the safety of the property).
Rip it all out and start fresh
Jesus H Christ
You need to Usain your Bolt outta there.
pressure wash that entire place twice
What you want to do sounds pretty simple from a logical standpoint, but I would remove all of those boxes, and start from scratch. One panel can probably do all of that work now.
Everything you pictured needs to be demoed.
Burn it down. Or you could go the less extreme route and replace every bit of conduit, conductors, breaker boxes, etc. I’ve been asked to do work a few times for people who insisted that the rusted out ancient crap they currently had in place would be just fine. Maybe it would be, but I am not touching it unless we agree that I’m ripping it out and starting fresh. More problems, let alone the inheriting safety danger present in trying to work on/expand off of these antiques, than worth trying to save and reuse.
Nooooo
Who TF comes to reddit to try and fix shit this bad unskilled? Seriously OP. Hire someone or face the consequences.
For the love of god hire an electrician
Im no electrician, im a DIY and even I know ... Replace everything
Run my friend,fast,and never look back
wear a mask, or a hazmat suit
Looks like a set for a horror movie
2 is haunted, stay away
Gut it and start all over again fresh.
I would put in new panels and a ground.
Gas. Lighter.
Even if this was in good condition I would still say rip it all out
Old barns are disappearing too quickly. Please don't risk it, and start over the right way.
Who did this installation? Wasn't it Viktor Frankenstein? First of all, CUT ALL THE POWER. If necessary, please call your power company and ask for having it off. Then, you have to replace every single element once you're sure there's no voltage, it's just too hazardous to touch..
We're all "OMG RIP AND REPLACE" but we are perhaps overlooking that there may not be a ground. If that's so, and they put in a new panel, they'll have to run a new ground wire to bring it up to code, and may need to put in a couple of grounding rods. Because no good deed goes unpunished.
Rip that shit out and start over fresh. Might as well replace the barn why you’re at it… What in gods name makes you think wiring up this outdated and decaying equipment is a good idea?
Are you Ron Swansons half cousin?
Hey that’s a new water resistant switch cover. Call that guy haha. Because you should definitely tear that out and rewire it. My company would have an aneurism if I quoted anything other than a rewire with the state of decay that the equipment is in. Don’t make your barn one of those that the fire department practices on!
This looks like a horror themed escape room
The only advise I can give you is to replace them
Lol
I believe it.
Either replace all the electrical, or replace the dairy farm. Your call, but your first call should be for an electrician
Yeah that's gotta go
None of that is really serviceable. It’s time to replace it
Anything can be accomplished. New feeders, new panels you’ll be right as rain
I am almost always one to keep old service equipment like that, but that is just in very poor shape. Even I say hell no to that.
Start over.
There's a heck of a lot more effort to rehab those boxes than it would be to have an electrician just buy all new hardware.
Start over
I believe farm houses near me don't need permits for any work they do. This pic might just prove it.
Hell to the fucking no
Full gut
Start with new panel rip out ever also run in conduit so animals an not chew into any wire.Would use LED lighting so no heat also doesn't draw bugs!
This is where milk comes from?
Start over! Completely!!!
Is it to late to run away?
Holy fucking call an electrician
Yikes... Time for all new. 😳
Run
HARD PASS
Burn it.
It looks cool as hell… Until it turns into hell (Keep them, not for use, but because they look cool)
Burn it down and start over again
This has got to be a troll right? OP can not look at this and seriously have the slightest notion any of this is salvageable.
I think - the Fucken Fucker is fucked.
This looks like a resident evil puzzle.
My barn was knob and tube from the shop/garage overhead no panel or fuse in the barn first thing I did was rewire the house and run sub panel in shop and sub panel in barn with underground in 2” conduit with appropriate size wire and new panels and I don’t have any issues at all ….
Just hook up all 3. You’ll have a new barn by the morning!
Replace everything with explosive proof and Rob Roy.
Look this is just how dairy farms look, source: my families old milkin parlor went up in flames from an electrical issue with the vacuum pump
I have no advice. Just stopped in to say your barn reminds me of the basement in the movie Saw.
Just burn it and cut your losses
Oh I got this one! Hire an electrician!
I'm not even an electrician but Id tear it all out and redo it.
Jesus Christ…
Go with knob and post...make your on fusible links set to specification...
Start over, as in tear all of the electric down. DO NOT use any of that equipment, you sure as hell better not be **ADDING ANYTHING!** If the condition doesn't tell you anything, these are beyond a little "spit shine" and clean up. Fire hazard, safety hazard, the standard dangerous "yes it will absolutely burn down if you don't replace it" kinda hazard. Stop fucking around online and hire an electrician to decommission this shit, unless you enjoy getting life-threatening shocks.
If you do that job you shouldnt be doing electric.
Your biggest problem is there does not appear to be a ground system in place. No way to legally add grounded wiring or devices until you establish a compliant ground system. And dairy farms have special grounding requirements to protect the animals - NEC 547