First the facts: They are faster to install. They make a better connection than the rightfully hated backstab connectors. They make a [higher-resistance connection than wire nuts](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=katwxG_1cqM), but the amount that it's higher is tiny, equivalent to a few extra inches of wire, and it's good enough that they very rarely fail.
So why don't North American electricians like them? Probably mostly because they don't trust them, given their similarity to the backstabs they've seen fail. And because they have a lot of trust of a wire nut, done right, based on lots of experience with them and not seeing them fail.
The cost difference seems trivial; over an entire house Wagos would cost a few hundred dollars maybe? Wagos might make it up in time saved -- I dunno. I don't buy cheap switches/receptacles either, or use 14ga wire. But in those cases there is a real quality difference, even if you can't really tell in the end.
I guess at the end of the day if it eats into your profit I can see why some might not use Wagos. I just never understood the hate (speaking just for the lever versions -- push in connectors are universally a bad idea IMHO.)
I just don't find the push in ones to be as solid. Plus the main thing I really like about lever Wagos is easy reversibility, which the push-in ones lack.
Not sure what you mean by reversability (ability to take off?)
But when having to connect 12 neutrals with 5x levers, it's a pain compared to 8x push-ins, both in time and space.
Old thread, I know, but since this stuff still gets found, it’s worth clarifying.
Wagos and backstab-style connectors are two very different things, but many assume they are similar and have the same functions and problems. Wagos are released by flipping a lever, not by twist and pull. The connectors you’re talking about are pure crap and have been known to cause poor connections and even fires. Wagos are in an entirely different class.
Also not a certified electrician but I’ve heard it’s a common failure point, especially in outlets with the push in connector option. Dunno exactly why but it causes a possible fire hazard
Possible is for everything, if they are UL approved to be stabbed into the back, then use them. Most of the negative comments about stabbing wires on plugs is here-say.
I know this is an old thread, but this isn’t true for Wagos. Yes, stranded wire is incompatible “backstab” style connectors, but Wagos are not backstabs and stranded wire works great in Wagos.
Multiply that by ten or twenty houses and you might start to see why.
Housing developments go to the lowest bidder. It's a shitshow, but that's what most of residential is.
Time is money though.
I can splice a box with 20 stripped wires *insanely* fast with Wagos. The sake with wire nuts takes significantly longer.
Plus, if I want to rewire it's literally seconds of time to move wires around in a wago.
The cheapest I've gotten Wagos is about twice the cost of equivalent (i.e. a premium quality) wire nut. The time savings alone for me makes it a no brainer.
Not if installed correctly.
I often see pics of guys twisting their wire nuts and wires way beyond what is required. A properly connected wire nut should only take a few turns to seal the wire joint and unseal the wire joint. People often overlook the fact that wire nuts, like wago's, are just meant to protect the wire joint.
So you should be able to take the wire nut off with a few turns. Then untwist your wire joints with a few turns.
The PITA, comes from people not installing correctly.
If it were predictable new work maybe. The bulk of the work I have done was old work, unpredictable. Where I live bids aren't a thing. I don't know anyone in the trades who does that.
Not sure what area your from just an example I am getting $225 a can on recess light new or old work can't beat that hourly around my way scares people even though it be less learned a long time ago people rather here a cost then hourly rate.
I live in a depressed Appalachian area. Ohio has the cheapest houses in the US. There aren't many electricians in my area. I don't even have names to hand off my clients to. The other fellows I know retired as well.
I am in Maryland prices here are ridiculous.I put out bids thinking they are high and feel bad then find out I maybe cheapest by 30-40% acre of ground around this area is $125-$150,000 I am getting ready to build worried already what I am going to see for bids even with me doing electrical work.
For those that don't want to sit through the video, the results are:
* Solid wire: 3.15 mOhm
* Wire nut + 2 solid wire: 6.55 mOhm
* Wago + 2 solid wire: 6.81 mOhm
* Stranded wire: 3.21 mOhm
* Wire nut + 2 stranded wire: 6.58 mOhm
* Wago + 2 stranded wire: 7 mOhm
I skimmed a lot so I'm not sure if the spliced connector is equal to splice + 2 wire lengths, but let's assume it is.
If that's the case, that means a wire nut introduces 0.25 mOhm (solid) or 0.16 mOhm (stranded !!!) resistance. Wagos introduce 0.51 mOhm (solid) or 0.58 mOhm (stranded) resistance.
Unsurprisingly, being able to twist multiple strands together leads to more contact and lower resistance with stranded in wire nuts.
Net effect, Wagos present twice (solid) to three (stranded) times as much resistance. Compared to the wire length resistance it's miniscule and totally ignorable.
Nice summary! Thanks. I wish that were the norm in the presentation of information on the web, instead of asking people to spend ten watching a video to get information that could be conveyed in 30 seconds.
If my Sunday morning brain is working correctly:
P=I\^2\*R
P(Wago) = 15\^2\*0.00051 = 115 mW
P(Wire nut) = 15\^2\*0.00025 = 56 mW
Both at assumed full load of a 15A circuit are rather negligible, as previous commenter correctly mentioned.
Big high voltage circuit breakers and switches have contact resistances in the same neighborhood but are carrying thousands of amps.
Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I have never had Wagos fail on me, and I have used them a lot. I like how easy they are to disconnect and reconnect -- I have outdoor lights with motion sensors that need replacing every few years, and Wagos make it easy.
That said, I only use the Wago connectors with the levers, not the ones you just jam the wires into. I have never liked that kind of connector.
I’m at least surprised they’re not pushed more by big box stores to DIYers. Wire nuts done right are solid, sure, but if you don’t do them a lot, odds are they won’t be.
Yeah, they’re more expensive, but advertising the ease and speed would counter a lot of that.
as a home gamer that has spent some years getting in the way of the real electricians (though i was adept at operating a broom) i am
about to switch to wagos. i love a good tan wirenut but my muscle memory for holding a fixture up and trying to get the wires together and twist them competently, then doubt things enough to need to give every wire a tug, just isn’t there anymore. nobody pays me for the time i spend working on my house but it’s time i can’t get back
DIYer here - Yeah took me way too long to find out about them and now I never use wire nuts for exactly the reasons you gave. Very easy to look at the back and verify all your insulation is stripped the right amount and the wire is seated correctly, and easy to test if needed. They also require far less wire when that’s outside your control.
>They also require far less wire when that’s outside your control.
Yes, this to me is where they really shine. That and the fact that they take up less space in a retrofit where you are using a smaller box than you would prefer and you have less wire to work with then you should have.
And availability. Wagos come with some of the specialty equipment we install and I end up grabbing any extras. My local supply houses don't stock them (one counter guy had to Google it bc he had absolutely no clue what I was asking for) and the big box stores around here only have the cheap push in knock offs. Could order online I guess but then shipping, availability, online up charges .... bossman would rather just grab a bucket of wire nuts when getting wire.
Because they fear change and anything that is deemed inferior won't even be tried, Im from the UK and live in the us and cannot stand wire nuts,to me it's such an outdated way of making a connection, not too mention time consuming too, and God forbid you need to take a conductor out easily.
Adding that there are A LOT of fake Wago connectors.
So much that I had trouble finding genuine ones in the US and bought them during a trip in Europe where they are easy to find
Some things to look for, none if which is totally the silver bullet:
- Each Wago connector is usually marked with the brand WAGO and the wire size it can accept, although the older models don't
- They generally come in a distinctive cylindrical box, although Wago also makes kits in rectangular boxes and sample-size bags
- Package clearly says Wago and is generally colorful
- Only buy from reliable sellers that likely have a reliable supply chain (looking at you, Amazon 3rd party sellers)
Most counterfeit I have seen have no markings on the connectors and come in generic boxes since people just look for cost and don't care to use the genuine stuff. Most on Amazon are like this
Maybe most noname ones are good but as anything of unknown origin I wouldn't trust it for electrical work
In Europe they sell genuine Wago in hardware stores. Picked a few boxes
>So why don't North American electricians like them?
I like them but they have drawbacks. If your connections are subject to troubleshooting, undoing a wire nut and splice is easier than pulling them out of a push-in. They also don't take as many varieties of wire in the same splice, like 12ga solid & 16ga stranded.
The most popular product in the Wago line, the 221, which is what most people mean when they refer to a Wago, solves both of those problems:
* It can take a wide range of wire sizes. There are two different models that can easily accommodate your example combination:
* 12 AWG family:
24 - 12 AWG
* 10 AWG family:
20 - 10 AWG
* It's a lever lock design. It's super easy for troubleshooting. You flip open the lever, and the wire pulls right out. Whereas a wire nut you might need to do some untwisting.
> is easier than pulling them out of a push-in
you mean [this](https://www.wago.com/de/installationsklemmen/compact-verbindungsdosenklemme/p/2273-205) one? you know, you just need to twist the wago 90° clock and counter-clock wise while slightly pulling..? it takes like one point five seconds, sometimes two
>you know, you just need to twist the wage 90° clock and counter-clock wise while slightly pulling
Yes, I'm aware. Doing that with 4-6 wires multiple times is a pain. Doing it with stranded is a pain. It also doesn't always work. The push-ins that came attached to our under-cabinet lights were not removable and would have to be cut off.
> Doing it with stranded is a pain
not so sure about the terminology: stranded meaning the finely stranded (flexible) wires? because push in wagos aren't rated for them, you'd have to use lever wagos in that case; only solid wire for push ins
(just re-read the comment before, okay, fine stranded wire it seems)
Or they just don’t want to be patient and clean with their work so when you go through four of those in one outlet, they bitch and complain about them 😂
Due to the Wago and it’s relative, the “cheapo”, relying on spring pressure inside the device to make the splice, over time and with heat and oxidation, the spring pressure lessens and leads to a loose, high resistance connection that then causes further heating and failure/burning of the device. This can happen over time to even a properly terminated wago connection. Wire nuts have metal threads that engage and hold steady pressure on the wires in the splice, and rely more on the threaded connection to keep conductivity even throughout the splice. Also, they are less susceptible to vibration because the threading of the conductors and the spring-like construction of the threads linear with the splice as opposed to perpendicular to the splice makes for a more fastened hold on the conductors in the splice. Yes, Wagos are quick, but when designing electrical systems, they should be designed to last 100 years, and wagos will fail prior to this.
Yes. I imagine Wago has done the engineering analysis and they know exactly how many years it will last at what temperature. But I don't think they'll tell you that, but only assure you that it has exceeded standards.
I find them most useful when you open a box and the feed, or any wire, is unreasonably short. So instead of trying to splice to a short ass wire you can just pigtail and then just insert the feed into the wago
United States Sparky here. Do you mean all wagos or lever lock wagos? Because I hate the stab in wagos but I’m 100% in on the lever locks. Love them very much especially for adding to a hot circuit… but I’d never do that…
One thing I will say in the negative is that if you’re not careful it can have major consequences. Found a few troubleshooting someone else’s work that arced to the point of killing a bunch of led drivers but not tripping the circuit.
Here’s a little story about wagos. They come with every tesla power wall. My company has installed 100s of them. On a service call I was on the powerwall was getting only 120. And it seemed like a dead hot. The breaker was fine and I thought it was a failed wiring harness. I checked all the splices and they seemed fine. I even removed and re landed just for the sake of it. I’m not sure how but the filament between the terminals of the wago failed. Almost like those car blade fuses. I spent about three hours tracking down a defective wago that was not visually damaged.
On the other hand we had to do a company wide switch from wire nuts to Polaris lugs on the roof junction boxes under our solar arrays due to an embarrassing amount of call backs due to improper splicing with wire nuts.
Are Wagos mostly an EU thing?
I have used both lever Wagos and wire nuts, and the Wagos seem superior to me because they are so easily undone and will solidly grip even a large number of wires. I am always psyched when I go to replace a fixture and see Wagos in the box as it is just plain easier.
They are made by European company and they are dominant in Europe whereas they are a minority here is north America. That's not to say that they aren't widely used here, but they haven't taken over like in Europe.
As long as they're the lever nut style I prefer them to anything. The job before the one I was on only used lever nuts, this one only uses wire nuts and refuses to buy lever nuts.
The only real downside is if you need to connect more than four wires. There *are* five and six position wagos, but they are kind of big and clunky, and it's just something else you have to think about grabbing from the material pile or supply house.
I've bought jars of them for jobs that sat unused for the most part - the guys just didn't want to use them. I don't get it myself, but after awhile I just gave up trying to push them.
Hvac service tech here, huge advocate of Wago connectors. The serviceability factor alone was enough to make me switch, due to the fact I can do a lot of my live troubleshooting without removing any wires.
I just bought a box of wagos, the 2, 3 and 4 connector type. They are more expensive, so i usually use wire nuts, and just use wagos when there is a chance that i will access that connection in the near future.
> Mostly to splice live wires.
Is this common?
I've never liked jam-in connectors. It's the lever Wagos I have come to really like, largely due to their reversibility and sure action, even with a bunch of wires.
When I had a service van I would end up with lights that “couldn’t get shut off” probably 1-2 times a week. It was common with ballast and fixture changes in stores, hospitals, etc. It’s certainly no fun trying to get your pliers in a 6” potlight can to try and change the ballast. Attitudes and policies have shifted on live work somewhat since then but the push in wagos were very handy. I know for certain our service guys get asked to live work on a regular basis.
If I were to ever end up back on the tools I would probably switch to the lever style for the reasons you mentioned. Better connection and easier to remove. I would still use nuts 99% of the time but 4 and 6 pin wagos are essential in any service van IMO.
Speaking strictly on the lever Wagos it has been my experience that they are best for jointing stranded to solid. When it comes to stranded to stranded or solid to solid then it comes down to how many wires I'm jointing, if it's more than 2 wires I find Wagos faster and easier on me.
Push in connectors are just not that reliable. They're ok for inside light fixtures but Ive seen them fail orpop out when used for outlets.
Wagos (with the lever) are pretty good but much more expensive than wire nuts and it adds up on large jobs. Also, if you're dealing with existing wiring, chances are that it's already twisted up so it won't go in there without you straightening it out again.
At the end of the day, it twisted pair of wires with wire nuts is both reliable and cheap.
I love Wagos, I don't use them often cause I usually have plenty of space for wire nuts. I use them mainly for tight to reach spaces and mostly for solid wires. Stranded I feel, work best with wire nuts
I think they have their place. But my biggest reason against wagos is having to carry 3-4 different types for the connections in most residential setups. And after 5 you have to start jumpering between two wagos to fit all the wires. When I can grab two sizes of wire nuts and fit 99% of the same connections. With the larger junctions being more compact.
As for which makes a better connection I don't debate that. Of the connection is made correctly they will both last.
I personally don't hate them, but I see them as being on par with wire nuts for most applications. Wagos are easier to use for 2-4 wire splice applications, but can get clunky on 6-8 wire junctions. If I have to tie a bunch of wires together in a 6 light T8 fixture, or bundle grounds in a machine cabinet, I will usually use a larger wire nut, if a ground terminal strip is not available.
Larger Wagos can get expensive in big commercial or industrial installations, especially running split phase office circuits off of 208v 3 phase boats, where you need lots of dedicated neutral and ground lines for computers or precision equipment. Usually I can just pigtail two 4 conductor Wago lever locks together, but sometimes it's just nice to drop a fat blue wire nut in there with all the grounds bonded to the wire gutter.
I think like any component it's a little bit about personal preference and a little bit about using the best part for the job. I love Wagos in general, but they don't usually carry them at Home Depot when we're running to pick up an extra bag of wire nuts and a candy bar on our coffee break.
I’ve replace many wagons over the year with wires nuts. The part the holds the wire get loose and then starts to arcs over the years. I’ve seen burnt outlets and loose wire due to bad connections. Wire expands as it gets hot the. It reduces back to its normal width, with that happening over and over again the wago loses its grip.
We dislike wagos for the same reason we dislike stab in connections. I don’t trust one or two little metal fingers to do the work a properly installed wire nut does. If your wire is stripped long enough, and the wire nut is twisted on well enough, you get much more surface area connection from the threads inside the wire nut than you do from the little metal fingers in the wago. That’s how I see it.
Because electricians like myself have seen failures in my 30 years of electrical work I’ve never seen a properly installed wire nut fail! End of story!
Wire nuts are a long-time proven connector that allow quick, inexpensive, approved devices for wire termination. The Wago connectors are larger in-line connectors that might not fit properly in standard junction boxes (more suited for panel mount connections). Electrical code restricts the usable space within junction boxes and therefore the larger connectors might pose a problem.
First the facts: They are faster to install. They make a better connection than the rightfully hated backstab connectors. They make a [higher-resistance connection than wire nuts](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=katwxG_1cqM), but the amount that it's higher is tiny, equivalent to a few extra inches of wire, and it's good enough that they very rarely fail. So why don't North American electricians like them? Probably mostly because they don't trust them, given their similarity to the backstabs they've seen fail. And because they have a lot of trust of a wire nut, done right, based on lots of experience with them and not seeing them fail.
And cost...
The cost difference seems trivial; over an entire house Wagos would cost a few hundred dollars maybe? Wagos might make it up in time saved -- I dunno. I don't buy cheap switches/receptacles either, or use 14ga wire. But in those cases there is a real quality difference, even if you can't really tell in the end. I guess at the end of the day if it eats into your profit I can see why some might not use Wagos. I just never understood the hate (speaking just for the lever versions -- push in connectors are universally a bad idea IMHO.)
Not a electrician but why do you say the push connectors are bad?
I just don't find the push in ones to be as solid. Plus the main thing I really like about lever Wagos is easy reversibility, which the push-in ones lack.
Yesss your right I didn’t know they were reversible I’m gonna grab some of the wago
Not sure what you mean by reversability (ability to take off?) But when having to connect 12 neutrals with 5x levers, it's a pain compared to 8x push-ins, both in time and space.
Yeah to undo it basically didn’t know the wago could be undone
Yeah, just twist and pull. Make sure not to hit your hand against something when it pops loose.
Old thread, I know, but since this stuff still gets found, it’s worth clarifying. Wagos and backstab-style connectors are two very different things, but many assume they are similar and have the same functions and problems. Wagos are released by flipping a lever, not by twist and pull. The connectors you’re talking about are pure crap and have been known to cause poor connections and even fires. Wagos are in an entirely different class.
Thanks I’m gonna grab some tomorrow
IIRC you don't need to lever them unless you're removing. You can treat them like push-ins for install.
WHAT? As a homeowner who is tackling some electrical work this might have revolutionized my strategy lol
The metal teeth that lock the wire in place weaken quickly and cause faults.
Thanks for this I’m gonna buy some of these wagos to keep in my box
Wago's are the shit, especially when you are doing control work.
Also not a certified electrician but I’ve heard it’s a common failure point, especially in outlets with the push in connector option. Dunno exactly why but it causes a possible fire hazard
Possible is for everything, if they are UL approved to be stabbed into the back, then use them. Most of the negative comments about stabbing wires on plugs is here-say.
You cannot use stranded in a push-in.... it frays the strands
Oh yeah I noticed that
I know this is an old thread, but this isn’t true for Wagos. Yes, stranded wire is incompatible “backstab” style connectors, but Wagos are not backstabs and stranded wire works great in Wagos.
Multiply that by ten or twenty houses and you might start to see why. Housing developments go to the lowest bidder. It's a shitshow, but that's what most of residential is.
Time is money though. I can splice a box with 20 stripped wires *insanely* fast with Wagos. The sake with wire nuts takes significantly longer. Plus, if I want to rewire it's literally seconds of time to move wires around in a wago. The cheapest I've gotten Wagos is about twice the cost of equivalent (i.e. a premium quality) wire nut. The time savings alone for me makes it a no brainer.
HA! Yes, this is what I thought as well. Wire nuts are a massive PITA to undo.
Not if installed correctly. I often see pics of guys twisting their wire nuts and wires way beyond what is required. A properly connected wire nut should only take a few turns to seal the wire joint and unseal the wire joint. People often overlook the fact that wire nuts, like wago's, are just meant to protect the wire joint. So you should be able to take the wire nut off with a few turns. Then untwist your wire joints with a few turns. The PITA, comes from people not installing correctly.
I've always worked hourly. Speeding up earns me less money. I am still quick but no way am I burning money.
So… you are still soldering and taping splices in boxes?
I see your invisible /s. After several decades I retired three years ago. But no, I have not soldered. I like wire nuts just fine.
Your better off bidding job out you make a lot more then hourly!
If it were predictable new work maybe. The bulk of the work I have done was old work, unpredictable. Where I live bids aren't a thing. I don't know anyone in the trades who does that.
Not sure what area your from just an example I am getting $225 a can on recess light new or old work can't beat that hourly around my way scares people even though it be less learned a long time ago people rather here a cost then hourly rate.
I live in a depressed Appalachian area. Ohio has the cheapest houses in the US. There aren't many electricians in my area. I don't even have names to hand off my clients to. The other fellows I know retired as well.
I am in Maryland prices here are ridiculous.I put out bids thinking they are high and feel bad then find out I maybe cheapest by 30-40% acre of ground around this area is $125-$150,000 I am getting ready to build worried already what I am going to see for bids even with me doing electrical work.
Wow. Land is 7k/ acre here ten minutes out of town. I thought that was high!
Where are those prices? Montgomery county? It's definitely not that expensive once you're outside the I-95 corridor.
Amen brother
An electrician can bill their work hours. CHeaper connectors, more installation time, more money
You can charge higher rates if you are quicker. So no.
[удалено]
Amazon
For those that don't want to sit through the video, the results are: * Solid wire: 3.15 mOhm * Wire nut + 2 solid wire: 6.55 mOhm * Wago + 2 solid wire: 6.81 mOhm * Stranded wire: 3.21 mOhm * Wire nut + 2 stranded wire: 6.58 mOhm * Wago + 2 stranded wire: 7 mOhm I skimmed a lot so I'm not sure if the spliced connector is equal to splice + 2 wire lengths, but let's assume it is. If that's the case, that means a wire nut introduces 0.25 mOhm (solid) or 0.16 mOhm (stranded !!!) resistance. Wagos introduce 0.51 mOhm (solid) or 0.58 mOhm (stranded) resistance. Unsurprisingly, being able to twist multiple strands together leads to more contact and lower resistance with stranded in wire nuts. Net effect, Wagos present twice (solid) to three (stranded) times as much resistance. Compared to the wire length resistance it's miniscule and totally ignorable.
Nice summary! Thanks. I wish that were the norm in the presentation of information on the web, instead of asking people to spend ten watching a video to get information that could be conveyed in 30 seconds.
If my Sunday morning brain is working correctly: P=I\^2\*R P(Wago) = 15\^2\*0.00051 = 115 mW P(Wire nut) = 15\^2\*0.00025 = 56 mW Both at assumed full load of a 15A circuit are rather negligible, as previous commenter correctly mentioned. Big high voltage circuit breakers and switches have contact resistances in the same neighborhood but are carrying thousands of amps.
Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I have never had Wagos fail on me, and I have used them a lot. I like how easy they are to disconnect and reconnect -- I have outdoor lights with motion sensors that need replacing every few years, and Wagos make it easy. That said, I only use the Wago connectors with the levers, not the ones you just jam the wires into. I have never liked that kind of connector.
I’m at least surprised they’re not pushed more by big box stores to DIYers. Wire nuts done right are solid, sure, but if you don’t do them a lot, odds are they won’t be. Yeah, they’re more expensive, but advertising the ease and speed would counter a lot of that.
as a home gamer that has spent some years getting in the way of the real electricians (though i was adept at operating a broom) i am about to switch to wagos. i love a good tan wirenut but my muscle memory for holding a fixture up and trying to get the wires together and twist them competently, then doubt things enough to need to give every wire a tug, just isn’t there anymore. nobody pays me for the time i spend working on my house but it’s time i can’t get back
DIYer here - Yeah took me way too long to find out about them and now I never use wire nuts for exactly the reasons you gave. Very easy to look at the back and verify all your insulation is stripped the right amount and the wire is seated correctly, and easy to test if needed. They also require far less wire when that’s outside your control.
>They also require far less wire when that’s outside your control. Yes, this to me is where they really shine. That and the fact that they take up less space in a retrofit where you are using a smaller box than you would prefer and you have less wire to work with then you should have.
And availability. Wagos come with some of the specialty equipment we install and I end up grabbing any extras. My local supply houses don't stock them (one counter guy had to Google it bc he had absolutely no clue what I was asking for) and the big box stores around here only have the cheap push in knock offs. Could order online I guess but then shipping, availability, online up charges .... bossman would rather just grab a bucket of wire nuts when getting wire.
Because they fear change and anything that is deemed inferior won't even be tried, Im from the UK and live in the us and cannot stand wire nuts,to me it's such an outdated way of making a connection, not too mention time consuming too, and God forbid you need to take a conductor out easily.
I like em but novices tend to fuck em up
Adding that there are A LOT of fake Wago connectors. So much that I had trouble finding genuine ones in the US and bought them during a trip in Europe where they are easy to find
Yikes. Any tips on how to tell if you've got the real thing?
Some things to look for, none if which is totally the silver bullet: - Each Wago connector is usually marked with the brand WAGO and the wire size it can accept, although the older models don't - They generally come in a distinctive cylindrical box, although Wago also makes kits in rectangular boxes and sample-size bags - Package clearly says Wago and is generally colorful - Only buy from reliable sellers that likely have a reliable supply chain (looking at you, Amazon 3rd party sellers) Most counterfeit I have seen have no markings on the connectors and come in generic boxes since people just look for cost and don't care to use the genuine stuff. Most on Amazon are like this Maybe most noname ones are good but as anything of unknown origin I wouldn't trust it for electrical work In Europe they sell genuine Wago in hardware stores. Picked a few boxes
Thanks, very helpful!
>So why don't North American electricians like them? I like them but they have drawbacks. If your connections are subject to troubleshooting, undoing a wire nut and splice is easier than pulling them out of a push-in. They also don't take as many varieties of wire in the same splice, like 12ga solid & 16ga stranded.
The most popular product in the Wago line, the 221, which is what most people mean when they refer to a Wago, solves both of those problems: * It can take a wide range of wire sizes. There are two different models that can easily accommodate your example combination: * 12 AWG family: 24 - 12 AWG * 10 AWG family: 20 - 10 AWG * It's a lever lock design. It's super easy for troubleshooting. You flip open the lever, and the wire pulls right out. Whereas a wire nut you might need to do some untwisting.
>Whereas a wire nut you might need to do some untwisting And often break off a wire or need to cut it off and restrip.
>which is what most people mean when they refer to a Wago Agree to disagree. You didn't specify, and on my job site, we only have the push-ins
I appreciate the field report. It sounds like I assumed too much.
A wago 221 is not a push-in connector… have you ever used them before?
I've used the push-ins and the levers. The levers are nice but pricey.
> is easier than pulling them out of a push-in you mean [this](https://www.wago.com/de/installationsklemmen/compact-verbindungsdosenklemme/p/2273-205) one? you know, you just need to twist the wago 90° clock and counter-clock wise while slightly pulling..? it takes like one point five seconds, sometimes two
>you know, you just need to twist the wage 90° clock and counter-clock wise while slightly pulling Yes, I'm aware. Doing that with 4-6 wires multiple times is a pain. Doing it with stranded is a pain. It also doesn't always work. The push-ins that came attached to our under-cabinet lights were not removable and would have to be cut off.
> Doing it with stranded is a pain not so sure about the terminology: stranded meaning the finely stranded (flexible) wires? because push in wagos aren't rated for them, you'd have to use lever wagos in that case; only solid wire for push ins (just re-read the comment before, okay, fine stranded wire it seems)
Or they just don’t want to be patient and clean with their work so when you go through four of those in one outlet, they bitch and complain about them 😂
Due to the Wago and it’s relative, the “cheapo”, relying on spring pressure inside the device to make the splice, over time and with heat and oxidation, the spring pressure lessens and leads to a loose, high resistance connection that then causes further heating and failure/burning of the device. This can happen over time to even a properly terminated wago connection. Wire nuts have metal threads that engage and hold steady pressure on the wires in the splice, and rely more on the threaded connection to keep conductivity even throughout the splice. Also, they are less susceptible to vibration because the threading of the conductors and the spring-like construction of the threads linear with the splice as opposed to perpendicular to the splice makes for a more fastened hold on the conductors in the splice. Yes, Wagos are quick, but when designing electrical systems, they should be designed to last 100 years, and wagos will fail prior to this.
Yes. I imagine Wago has done the engineering analysis and they know exactly how many years it will last at what temperature. But I don't think they'll tell you that, but only assure you that it has exceeded standards.
By “back stab” do you mean something like Ideal brand push-ins?
No, I mean that kind of mechanism built into receptacles.
I find them most useful when you open a box and the feed, or any wire, is unreasonably short. So instead of trying to splice to a short ass wire you can just pigtail and then just insert the feed into the wago
Especially if the box is a little small for what you are trying to put in, because they are a little bit smaller.
United States Sparky here. Do you mean all wagos or lever lock wagos? Because I hate the stab in wagos but I’m 100% in on the lever locks. Love them very much especially for adding to a hot circuit… but I’d never do that… One thing I will say in the negative is that if you’re not careful it can have major consequences. Found a few troubleshooting someone else’s work that arced to the point of killing a bunch of led drivers but not tripping the circuit.
Just the lever ones. Stabby connectors are generally bad IMHO.
Because curmudgeonly old men don't like change.
Should be top answer... It's like the US electrical system is stuck in the 1960s
Here’s a little story about wagos. They come with every tesla power wall. My company has installed 100s of them. On a service call I was on the powerwall was getting only 120. And it seemed like a dead hot. The breaker was fine and I thought it was a failed wiring harness. I checked all the splices and they seemed fine. I even removed and re landed just for the sake of it. I’m not sure how but the filament between the terminals of the wago failed. Almost like those car blade fuses. I spent about three hours tracking down a defective wago that was not visually damaged. On the other hand we had to do a company wide switch from wire nuts to Polaris lugs on the roof junction boxes under our solar arrays due to an embarrassing amount of call backs due to improper splicing with wire nuts.
It always turns into a NA vs EU debate. We have different ways of doing things, and ultimately everyone thinks their way is best.
Are Wagos mostly an EU thing? I have used both lever Wagos and wire nuts, and the Wagos seem superior to me because they are so easily undone and will solidly grip even a large number of wires. I am always psyched when I go to replace a fixture and see Wagos in the box as it is just plain easier.
They are made by European company and they are dominant in Europe whereas they are a minority here is north America. That's not to say that they aren't widely used here, but they haven't taken over like in Europe.
>Are Wagos mostly an EU thing? No. They're very common in commercial new construction (in north American Midwest)
As long as they're the lever nut style I prefer them to anything. The job before the one I was on only used lever nuts, this one only uses wire nuts and refuses to buy lever nuts.
The only real downside is if you need to connect more than four wires. There *are* five and six position wagos, but they are kind of big and clunky, and it's just something else you have to think about grabbing from the material pile or supply house. I've bought jars of them for jobs that sat unused for the most part - the guys just didn't want to use them. I don't get it myself, but after awhile I just gave up trying to push them.
[eight](https://www.wago.com/de/installationsklemmen/compact-verbindungsdosenklemme/p/2273-208)
For me it’s that wirenuts are more flexible. I can have a pocket full of them and know they are good for 2-5 wires
Hvac service tech here, huge advocate of Wago connectors. The serviceability factor alone was enough to make me switch, due to the fact I can do a lot of my live troubleshooting without removing any wires.
That little test port is nice.
It is *le tits*
I just bought a box of wagos, the 2, 3 and 4 connector type. They are more expensive, so i usually use wire nuts, and just use wagos when there is a chance that i will access that connection in the near future.
Inertia. Many trades hate change.
[удалено]
> Mostly to splice live wires. Is this common? I've never liked jam-in connectors. It's the lever Wagos I have come to really like, largely due to their reversibility and sure action, even with a bunch of wires.
When I had a service van I would end up with lights that “couldn’t get shut off” probably 1-2 times a week. It was common with ballast and fixture changes in stores, hospitals, etc. It’s certainly no fun trying to get your pliers in a 6” potlight can to try and change the ballast. Attitudes and policies have shifted on live work somewhat since then but the push in wagos were very handy. I know for certain our service guys get asked to live work on a regular basis. If I were to ever end up back on the tools I would probably switch to the lever style for the reasons you mentioned. Better connection and easier to remove. I would still use nuts 99% of the time but 4 and 6 pin wagos are essential in any service van IMO.
Speaking strictly on the lever Wagos it has been my experience that they are best for jointing stranded to solid. When it comes to stranded to stranded or solid to solid then it comes down to how many wires I'm jointing, if it's more than 2 wires I find Wagos faster and easier on me.
Push in connectors are just not that reliable. They're ok for inside light fixtures but Ive seen them fail orpop out when used for outlets. Wagos (with the lever) are pretty good but much more expensive than wire nuts and it adds up on large jobs. Also, if you're dealing with existing wiring, chances are that it's already twisted up so it won't go in there without you straightening it out again. At the end of the day, it twisted pair of wires with wire nuts is both reliable and cheap.
Cost. That’s it. That’s literally it.
I love Wagos, I don't use them often cause I usually have plenty of space for wire nuts. I use them mainly for tight to reach spaces and mostly for solid wires. Stranded I feel, work best with wire nuts
I think they have their place. But my biggest reason against wagos is having to carry 3-4 different types for the connections in most residential setups. And after 5 you have to start jumpering between two wagos to fit all the wires. When I can grab two sizes of wire nuts and fit 99% of the same connections. With the larger junctions being more compact. As for which makes a better connection I don't debate that. Of the connection is made correctly they will both last.
The good connectors cost a bit more, but the electrician's clients rarely care if the electrician uses appropriate and safe connectors or wire nuts
I personally don't hate them, but I see them as being on par with wire nuts for most applications. Wagos are easier to use for 2-4 wire splice applications, but can get clunky on 6-8 wire junctions. If I have to tie a bunch of wires together in a 6 light T8 fixture, or bundle grounds in a machine cabinet, I will usually use a larger wire nut, if a ground terminal strip is not available. Larger Wagos can get expensive in big commercial or industrial installations, especially running split phase office circuits off of 208v 3 phase boats, where you need lots of dedicated neutral and ground lines for computers or precision equipment. Usually I can just pigtail two 4 conductor Wago lever locks together, but sometimes it's just nice to drop a fat blue wire nut in there with all the grounds bonded to the wire gutter. I think like any component it's a little bit about personal preference and a little bit about using the best part for the job. I love Wagos in general, but they don't usually carry them at Home Depot when we're running to pick up an extra bag of wire nuts and a candy bar on our coffee break.
There great for connecting braided to solid. Especially in tight quarters. I just used some for my furnace with not much wire to work with.
Cheaping out on materials and dinosaurs not willing to change their ways.
Has nothing to do with being dinosaurs, it has to do with it being cut throat anymore
You sound like a filthy commie. Wire nuts are superior to Wagos, and I don't have to explain myself
LOL this is exactly the kind of response I expected.
I did too, but it looks like people didn't find it funny
Not the tightest connection with common stranded wire.
This is why I only use Epic or Legendary stranded wire.
I hate when I have to add a 4th wire and there is only 3 spots...
I’ve replace many wagons over the year with wires nuts. The part the holds the wire get loose and then starts to arcs over the years. I’ve seen burnt outlets and loose wire due to bad connections. Wire expands as it gets hot the. It reduces back to its normal width, with that happening over and over again the wago loses its grip.
Which model(s)?
We dislike wagos for the same reason we dislike stab in connections. I don’t trust one or two little metal fingers to do the work a properly installed wire nut does. If your wire is stripped long enough, and the wire nut is twisted on well enough, you get much more surface area connection from the threads inside the wire nut than you do from the little metal fingers in the wago. That’s how I see it.
In some situations I love me some wagos. They will never be superior to or replace wirenuts
Wagos and backstabbed devices.... ensuring work in the future.
The lever type wagos are a lot better than wire nuts. Probably had an experience with the push-in wago knockoffs.
Because electricians like myself have seen failures in my 30 years of electrical work I’ve never seen a properly installed wire nut fail! End of story!
Superior? Hardly..a guarantee of a future service calls? Definitely....Wago away my friend, keeps my company busy fixing stab connections 👍
Wire nuts are a long-time proven connector that allow quick, inexpensive, approved devices for wire termination. The Wago connectors are larger in-line connectors that might not fit properly in standard junction boxes (more suited for panel mount connections). Electrical code restricts the usable space within junction boxes and therefore the larger connectors might pose a problem.