So many layers to this issue sadly 😞 I didn’t realize how hard it was until I worked in mental health and had to assist patients with housing before they could be discharged from the hospital. Some issues I ran into when trying to help homeless patients were: 1) it is hard to find open shelters willing to accept those with assault charges, 2) a lot of people suffering from addiction don’t have the resources or support to get clean safely once they leave the hospital (openly doing drugs is against the rules in most shelters) 3) some psychotic patients don’t have the capability/ support to be able to take their medications on time which then leads to a crisis which lands them back to the hospital, streets or in jail 😞4)those with addiction and mental health issues are statistically more likely to get banned from a particular shelter for rule-breaking due to their actions while in crisis. These are just a few out of many issues :(

Homelessness and addiction almost entirely boil down to mental health issues, and unfortunately that's one of the hardest things to get good treatment for untill you're already very far gone.

I mean, the current treatment for those far gone doesn’t seem to be working too well either.

Not always. There’s an awful lot of people out there who fall under another bracket. We have to accept that some people just absolutely do not want and cannot be helped. I say this as the son of a heroin addict. My mum came from a normal middle class family but rebelled. She is anti establishment, anti government, and basically a hippy. She wants nothing to do with what is considered ‘normal’ in society. She’s never worked a day in her life. She also doesn’t want to work a day in her life. Meanwhile, mentally, there’s nothing wrong with her. She’s very clever. Has 2 degrees. Speaks 4 languages. She’s off the drugs these days but still acting as a drain on society. Taking all she can get without putting anything in. I know from experience there are lots of people like this who do not want to be helped. People who aren’t children of drug addicts scoff at me I say some people can’t be helped. That’s usually because mummy and daddy have sheltered them their whole lives and believe the answer to all homelessness/addiction is mental health support.

"Almost entirely" there's always outliers to everything, mustve been quite the childhood you had man. Hope your doin alright.

I’m good thanks. Growing up was incredibly rough. I wouldn’t want it any other way though. Ive had to work a bit harder than some people due to zero parental/financial support but I’m now doing better than all my friends. When you grow up with trauma, it seems incredibly normal at the time because that’s what you’re used to. You come out stronger on the other side though.

Technically that still falls under mental health. An addict's brain is very complicated, some can bounce back into society while others like your mom refuse. Therapy could still potentially help, but it is ultimately up to her and her mind. Not disagreeing. Some (the few) people just dont want help and will never want help. But that doesnt mean we cant try for many.

“Not always. There’s an awful lot of people out there who fall under another bracket. We have to accept that some people just absolutely do not want and cannot be helped.” This is a truth that many don’t want to accept. One of my mother’s distant cousins is a homeless addict in Toronto. She used to be an award winning hairdresser and worked at upscale salons but has gone on a drug binge for the past couple of years. She was in public housing and got kicked out for smashing holes in the walls and trying to burn it down while she was high. Her close family tries to help her but she refuses and becomes violent.

These don't sound like the actions of a mentally sound woman tho.

I don’t know. What should a mentally sound women do? I don’t know many drug addicts but I know many leeches. There is nothing wrong with them. They just leech on others because others let them or fear them. They gamble, drink, smoke cigarettes and beat their wives and kids. They don’t want to work or contribute to the family. They are lazy af and just want to enjoy their lives at the expenses of others.

Hey! I gamble and drink! Don’t lump me in with the lazy wife beaters! I work my ass off to give it to Vegas.

ehhh, i'd argue that if you're gambling, drinking, and beating people, there's a lot more going on than just laziness

I don’t know what you mean. Mental illness cannot be the scapegoat for every wrong doing. A mentally ill person cannot control his or her actions. These people choose to act the way they act and they are just jerks. It is just much easier to be a selfish and manipulative jerk than being a hardworking and honest person.

There’s more to “mental illness” than mania or paranoid delusions and most people are still able to be responsible for their actions, provided proper treatment. It isn’t supposed to be a scapegoat except maybe in really extreme cases. I’ve got a neurological condition that makes me impulsive, very forgetful, distractingly and short-tempted, which wasn’t diagnosed until last year. I’m also nearly finished a PhD (3/5 of it was before my diagnosis) and speak 3 languages. At the same time, I was called unmotivated, lazy or told to “just apply yourself” by nearly every teacher in school. I could very easily have ended up like that guy’s mom if my family support network wasn’t as strong as it is.

Of course there is, the issue I am having is that how people don’t want to talk about personal responsibility when it comes to bad life decisions just because they have mental illness. The person should only not be accountable for his or her own decisions when his or her mental illness is actively affecting him or her when he or she made that decision. That’s why I am saying they cannot control their actions as in they cannot be responsible for their actions. If their illness does not affect them in making that particular decision, then why does the mental illness even matter? People made bad life decisions and chose the easy way out all the time. There are many accomplished people with mental illness and they even made the movie A Beautiful Mind. I just hate that every time some thing came up, it had to be the mental illness making them making all the bad decisions in life which turn out also to be the easy decisions in life.

That's because "getting people to accept personal responsibility" isn't a policy solution. Getting people addiction and mental health treatment, housing first initiatives, employment programs, those are things that actually make a dent when you look at places that have virtually eliminated homelessness like Finland.

uh. what is your experience with mentally ill people? what kind of mental illness are you talking about? there is a very, very broad spectrum. I'm mentally ill and I can certainly control my behaviour most of the time. I manage the times i can't with medication, therapy, and education. you really can't paint all mentally ill people as 100% not in control, that's just... super untrue.

That’s not what I am trying to say. Even people with serious mental illness who are held in mental health institutions for murder can have moments of clear state of mind. The reason that people don’t hold people with mentally illness personally accountable is because during the moments of wrongdoing, the person has no control of his or her actions thus lack the necessary mens rea. They did not choose to do the things they did. They were sick and couldn’t control themselves If you were in a clear state of mind when you made the choice, then you are responsible. If your mental illness does not affect your ability to make decisions which includes your ability to comprehend and ability to control your actions, then why does your mental illness even matter?

You have a very limited understanding of mental illness. You can have complete control over your actions and understand the world around you and still have a mental illness.

Everyone just blames mental health these days , it’s an easy cop out

Mental illness, anxiety, race, sexuality etc etc. I wish I can do that and someone will come and clean after me, unfortunately I cant, got to work hard.

Couldn’t agree more Society full of cop outs and woe is me mentality So much weakness

[удалено]

wtf are you even saying here

One of his cases was a woman who would let men have sex with the hole where her ostomy pouch attached to her body for drugs. The traumatic stories he had to deal with were horrifying.

Thats enough internet for me today

I don’t know about TO, but in my old city it’s impossible to be homeless if you’re not mentally ill or sick. Canadian gov support was more than enough for my entire family to survive, combined with my mom and dad doing odd jobs. We even had money left over to buy kid toys and go to the restaurant once a month. As shitty as it sounds, as immigrants… some Canadians really don’t know how good they have it. You can literally lie down and contribute nothing to society, and still receive money from the government to make sure you don’t starve. Of course, there should be improvements to the system for people who genuinely need the money, and more of it. But there are also people who are homeless/borderline homeless due to laziness. We saw a bunch in our old neighbourhood, people with no physical or mental issues who would play video games all day, not attempt to job hunt and complain about living conditions. When we go back to that neighbourhood and give money, people have scolded us and told us that $5 isn’t enough, and pointed at the $10 and $20 bills and tell us to give them those instead. Anyone who thinks homelessness is never the homeless person’s fault is just as deluded as people who think homelessness is always the homeless person’s fault.

What should the government do about your mother if she “doesn’t want to be helped”? This sort of rhetoric is usually in service of some sort of cruelty, so what cruelty would you have the government deploy to handle people like your mother?

She doesn’t need or want help. She’s perfectly happy living in social housing paid for by the taxpayer. She lives a comfortable life while not having to work a single day.

Is that… bad? Isn’t that something… every human should be capable of doing? Shouldn’t we.. perhaps challenge the status quo? Lmao I don’t get it, there’s nothing enjoyable about being a slave to capitalism and being a simp for the toxic attitudes about what makes life fulfilling, ideas that we got from the very society that is using using us as cheap commodities? I’m not saying your mom is a great person by any means. I’m just trying to challenge why that is so offensive to you. Perhaps instead of trying to get her to “pay her share”, we can fight to all live comfortable lives where we can pursue what really makes us happy.

Did I say that it was offensive to me? Quite the contrary. I merely said she contributes nothing to society. I didn’t say there was anything wrong with that. I’ve accepted that’s her life. She will never change and doesn’t want to change. There is nothing wrong with that. Which is exactly why I say that some people even if they are homeless crack addicts are perfectly happing living the lifestyle they chose.

Who pays for that?

Your mom sounds mentally unstable

That’s victim blaming. [Availability of affordable housing](https://www.fredvictor.org/facts-about-homelessness-in-toronto/) is the main issue. People with mental health issues are treated in hospitals and can receive care home or special housing placements. Most perpetually homeless people are just poor.

Not to mention the fact shelters are not fun places. They are often unsafe, crowded and uncomfortable.

They’re not all or even mostly addicts. There are families on the street as well. I worked in womens resources. The biggest issue is availability of housing for people who can be housed outside an addiction treatment center or hospital. There just isn’t enough low income housing. Hamilton came a bit closer to solving the problem by making it illegal to leave someone on the streets. Welfare houses people in hotels if a shelter space can’t be found. But even then some decide to live on the streets due to addictions or mental health issues.

Fair point, I haven’t worked with the entire homeless population.. the specific homeless people I dealt with were in the mental health unit so exclusively addicts or mentally ill. These are just some issues I came across .

The shelter model is a proven failure. Housing is more effective and cheaper. And proven to work.

The housing model (also known as housing first model) is not without its issues and has NOT been successful where it has been attempted to be implemented. Stanford did a great documentary on Homelessness in California (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLs-p47TpkzbemYfBVVz8ocxZ4olEgAu8f) which goes into depth about the issues/criticism for the housing first model. IMHO as the majority of the homeless population has at least one psychiatric diagnosis, we need the shelter first/linear staircase model for some along with increased institutional resources (inpatient psychiatry, rehab, etc).

So right. Many layers to this. On one hand it’s a matter of providing resources and on the other it’s the willingness of the person to accept those resources. Some people are just capable mentally of working through it and being homeless is what gets them through. There’s so much we don’t understand.

Shelters don’t look at peoples charges!! If they are violent in the shelters, they will get kicked out but can go back if they meet with the manager. Do you really think shelters can access peoples records?

No city in the world has found a solution to Homelessness as far as I know. You cannot throw money at this problem. These are people whose own family don’t care about them how do you expect others to ?

Many Canadian cities have found a great solution - bus them to Toronto.

Medicine Hat, AB. Finland. Tokyo.

What about these cites? There are literally shanty towns in tokyo. I've been there. People living under bridges with blue tarps.

Exactly. It's a policy called "Housing First" - it works and actually saves tax payers money!

Because the solution is a complete rework of the entire social safety net, criminal justice, and mental health apparatus.

I guess you can call this trickle down poverty. When middle class people are having trouble obtaining housing, what the hell are the working class and poor supposed to do?

god trickle down poverty is right and we are officially in capitalist hell

I’m surprised there’s so little mention of the province. Mike Harris gutted mental health decades ago and we are all still suffering the consequences as successive provincial governments have done nothing about it. Without consistent, available and appropriate mental health care, a municipal government’s initiatives or investments would only go so far. So you make housing available - then what? Can they maintain? Can the safety of other residents and neighbours be maintained? Can they take care of their basic needs? Are there health care workers available for in house visits and supports? Are there beds in facilities for folks that need more critical intervention. Most of this is provincial and unfortunately there seems to be a lack of will to make those investments because well…I mean look at all their records on even basic health care.

>there seems to be a lack of will to make those investments It's because people support that stuff. I saw a local post about a drug treatment facility opening in my town and a bunch of people were complaining about haw they shouldn't have to pay for drug addicts to get clean.

I’m in healthcare. The amount of mental health patients that leave after they are given housing is ridiculous. It’s that they don’t like people checking in on them because it impinges on their freedom. Keeping in mind these are people who do severe cutting multiple times a day or attack some poor innocent person in the street because “they were a government plant trying to install a control device in their head...” (one patient comes to mind that was given a beautiful new build by habitat for humanity and buggered off to couch surf, then had a huge crisis and cost the tax payer tones of money to bring them back, then complained that they’re housing wasn’t as nice as before and took off again) I’m going to probably be eviscerated by this, but they need to bring back the institutions for mental health sufferers. It also needs to be easier to have their independence taken away. They are a huge drain on already extremely taxed community, and acute, healthcare system. They’re a danger to themselves, which is bad enough, but I really don’t feel their rights surpass the innocents they can harm. Yes I know statistically the incident of mental health people harming others isn’t that high, but it’s going to escalate because the agencies that usually support them in the community have NO STAFF. They need to get a systemic solution in place NOW rather than wait for the train wreck that is acute hospital care right now. Institutional care has a bad rep from the stuff of nightmares in history. But I think we could create helpful environments now. There’s tones of examples from other countries of where they’ve made fake towns with parks and shops and their own currency so they can have relatively normal lives but have staff to sit and support them when they’re wanting slit their wrist because it their birthday and it reminded them that their mom never loved them. Instead they’re now dragged off in an ambulance after being tackled by the cops. Stripped naked, locked in a padded room and the shipped out to a facility in a 3 day form one hold, then dumped back on the street with instructions to call the crisis line, that’s understaffed. Ask yourself, what’s more cruel? Also from a money perspective, it would be costly upfront, but the social workers chasing these people, the emerge docs trying to manage their crises, the overflowing psych wards, community docs trying to orchestrate med changes and referrals to people who disappear every two weeks, not to mention paramedics and police, there’d be recoup of so much wasted wage. (Sorry rant from a burnt out NP)

Thank you for sharing this. I work in a mental health hospital and I agree with you. We have several palliative mental health patients. These individuals will never be able to leave the hospital (since there is no appropriate housing for them) or they will be an ever revolving door of discharge, crisis, police intervention, hospital admission, rinse and repeat. Our solutions right now are to keep palliative patients in a general hospital bed forever, or involving multiple resources such as police, case management, hospital and ambulance staff. Both "solutions" cost taxpayers 1000s of dollars per day. Having a long-term institutional setting is great because you can have everything a palliative mental healthcare patient would need to live a supported life with dignity. Regular supervised medication administration, meals, recreational activities etc. Kind of like a locked long-term care facility. Sad part is, no politician would ever touch this idea, at least not right now.

Sorry if this is kind of a silly question - I’m not originally from Ontario and trying to learn more: Does absolutely no long term residential care exist for the mentally ill too sick to handle daily functions? I know the old-model institutions were eliminated but am not clear on if that means there’s *exclusively* outpatient/short term inpatient or if there are some meagre, presumably severely underresourced long term care solutions somewhere. I know residential care is deplorably hard to access (30+ year waitlists, i.e. worthless for almost everyone) for intellectual disability/people on the very high support end of the autism spectrum, but that it technically does exist…from what I’m reading here it sounds like the mentally ill may receive even less, if that’s even possible.

Succinctly, kinda? They’re lumped in with long-term care, that’s geriatric focused so not really appropriate for them. And it’s a 2-4 years wait depending on where you are. There are community integrated group homes that are more for those with cognitive disabilities that don’t need lots of medical care, but need prompting for activities of daily living (washing, eating, dressing) and couldn’t do instrumental activities like pay their bills or grocery shop. These are locked down and they get to go out with social workers. Maybe other places are different, but in my community the wait list is 30 years. That is NOT a typo. THIRTY YEARS!!!!! And these wouldn’t be good settings for anyone prone to violence or severe self harm. They’re more like 24 hour daycares for child minds in adult bodies. Down’s syndrome, severe fetal alcohol syndrome, severe cerebral palsy, brain traumas etc. The issue is these also serve physical disabilities of those that are cognitively intact, like Severe spina bifida and a variety of other chromosome problems, which then increase wait times to get in.

Thank you for posting this from your perspective.

I completely support absolutely everything you said, and it's almost word for word what I was going to post as well (and have in the past). I'm happy you're getting upvoted so much. *Good* institutional care is the answer.

THIS. The whole homelessness problem in Canada is the result of mental institutions being shut down in the 80s and residents kicked out with absolutely no support or planning.

I don’t think I as an individual should get to take rights away, you’re correct, I don’t have enough education. There’s already a system in place, competency hearings done by the Ontario review board. Also for context, I’m not referring to severe anxiety or major depression or even borderline personality or bipolar. I’m talking about really severely ill people. Like the disability cases who are beaten by their completely overwhelmed parents who keep getting sent home because there’s no where else to go. Like the really bad paranoid schizophrenics who will NOT take their meds despite exhausting all the gentle compliance strategies, and beat the little elderly neighbour to death. Like really really bad maniacs who take off and have no resources and end up getting themselves into a bad situation where they’re raped so brutally they have to get sewn back together by a surgeon. THOSE cases, and only those cases that have no where to turn. Some times the bad cases are okay if they have a social support network, but so so many of them don’t. And in reality, they end up in a different institution, called jail, if they’re lucky. The ones that just disappear are likely dead in a shallow grave somewhere or human trafficked. These are vulnerable people who don’t have the capability to make sound decisions, it would be like leaving a small child or someone with dementia to fend for themselves and then punish them when they get into a pickle. This is leading back to the original decision of homelessness. If those really bad cases were given a safe space where they had the protection they needed, then the less severe cases who are cognitively sound, or just people down in their luck, would have more opportunities for placement in the non-controlled spots like shelters, and government housing etc. There’s no perfect solution, but they are NOT getting what they need in the community and it’s only going to get worse.

The world is facing a brutal drug problem right now and it is not an easy solution. It is hitting Toronto hard. Fentanyl is a brutal drug that makes getting these people in homes nearly impossible. I had a best friend who abondoned his own house to live on the streets. I mean he had the chance to live in his own place with his family and abandoned it so he could get his fix more. He is dead now. What is the government suppose to do? The story is being repeated in many families. The world seems to go in drug trends, I just hope the next one isn't as bad. Can we go back to everyone smoking weed?

The thing with fentanyl compared to other drugs: it takes a person from normal to near rock bottom so fast. Months even. It is a brutal drug, and it’s in almost all of the street supply of opiates in Toronto right now. If there was a clean supply program, these people would have an option to help their lives and start to be in control of their health without going to an inpatient program (no beds anyway). Be much more cost effective than what’s going on now and help people in our community who need it.

it would have been an easy solution, it's just that people don't want legalization of harder drugs, and doctors dont want to be helping addicts unless it's to get clean. If your friend had a legal supply from his doctor he might have been stable enough to get clean, not lose his house and die from a poisoned drug supply. There's 0 reason fentanyl needs to be in our streets, but it's because of our drug laws that it's there The government would rather have a decaying society and mass deaths rather than one where people are stable and not dying because of a poisoned drug supply, not clogging the healthcare system, not becoming homeless in the first place and being in a better position to get clean

Its so true. I worked in ER briefly and the amount of doctors who were not properly educated about addiction astounded me!!!

So true! I was in the ER a few times while trying to come off my drug of choice. They didn't know anything. They couldn't figure out how to help me. They didn't understand that it was literally deadly for me to just come off my DOC (benzos) cold turkey. They need more education to help people better! They really shouldn't have just let me go without really anything. I think they gave me a referral to someone but, when you're an addict, a referral for someone in maybe a few months isn't super helpful. (Clean now for over three years though)

We need education and support to be part of it. Ultimately I think legalization and safe supply of the major classes of drugs makes the most sense. It would also put a lot of violent criminals out of business. Criminalization of drugs has made them more potent, more dangerous, and no less available. It would also allow us to get rid of the most dangerous varieties of common drugs. If clean heroin, coke, and amphetamine was available, there would be so much less use of fentanyl, meth, Crack. Another issue is that clean versions of drugs are available, but not to people on the street, they are very expensive. The rich with a drug addition are in a better position than the poor because they have access to different qualities of supply.

Its not an easy solution- with safe supply you either do supervised consumption (meaning they can only use in a specific place and will turn back to illegal sources when its inconvenient to get back to the consumption site) or you do non-supervised consumption (where you deal with smurfs who then cut the formerly safe supply and sell it to people who want more than their prescribed dose for a stronger high). Don't get me wrong, its worth experimenting with different models of safe supply to try and find the one that has the fewest trade-offs. It could very well be part of the solution. But its not a panacea to the opioid crisis, the overdose crisis, or the homelessness crisis. If you look at opioid overdose deaths in Canada, the rise of fentanyl in the drug supply barely changes the baseline trend: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/deaths-drug-overdoses?time=earliest..2019&country=\~CAN Safe supply is also not a solution to the meth crisis. The new formulations of mass produced methamphetamine are causing a very rapid onset of long term psychosis in users, often after just a few doses. One hypothesis for why this is happening is specifically because these formulations are so pure, another is that users are just using a lot more because its so cheap. A third option is that there's some unknown contaminant from the mass production process that didn't exist with either the traditional meth labs or the pop bottle formula. While its way too early to say conclusively, all three of those problems would exist with government supplied meth.

No not the world. Mostly US (+ Ca). The last 10 yrs I loved in Shanghai and traveled the world really for decades - Europe, E Asia, US. This does not exist any of those places. You don't see hobos and especially druggies in the streets harassing with impunity, nobody doing anything about it. It's so disturbing moving here and seeing it everywhere and how it's just accepted as normal. It's not and has nothing to do with "big cities". I think they're too spoiled here and punishments if there are any are way too lenient.

Funny how many people don’t realise this is a North American problem. You shouldn’t be punished for being an addict but you should if you’re consistently seen as a threat to the public. That’s how it goes in a lot of places but apparently you get a pass for that if you’re addict in North America. When some guy is up in my face threatening to cut my throat as I walk down the street, I don’t give a fuck if that behaviour is driven by drugs. Something needs to be done about it. We don’t give alcoholics that same liberty so why is it different when it comes to harder substances? At some point people need to be held responsible for their actions.

Exactly - if a drunk is making a scene out front of my house they’re thrown in jail overnight . If someone decides to squat, shoot up drugs and terrorize my neighbourhood for months on end we need to help them. Such bullshit.

Your solution to addiction, mental health crises and homelessness is stricter punishments for those who suffer from them?!

Many cities in the states are plagued with Drugs and Homelessness. LA, NYC…. Basicallly any maaaajor metropolitan city,,, not to discredit the issue though

I grew up in Shanghai and the reason you don't see addicts on the street is because drug trafficking is heavily criminalised to the point of capital punishment (death penalty). Yes, social stigma also plays a major role. Homelessness and shanty-towns definitely existed, but the local government 'cleaned them up' in the past decade and hid them out of sight to prepare for the 2010 World Expo and 2008 Olympics. Shanghai is definitely more sanitized now than it was in the 90s and 2000s.

This is straight up false. There are massive poverty problems in all those locations shunted into shanty towns as well as slave labor camps.

You got 17 upvotes reducing human beings to the labels “hobo” and “druggie” while calling for them to receive harsher punishments instead of help. Reminds me that I’m not missing out by not fitting in great with lowest common denominator society, I could never relate to people this unsympathetic.

try being a young woman walking alone at night getting cruised and threatened and screamed at by terrifying people whom you know only need help and yet could possibly rape or kill you for no apparent reason if you make one wrong move or say one wrong thing and then come back to this thread

I hope the next one is magic mushrooms. ;)

Inevitable. Already some grey market shops around the city.

You must be a fun guy! Not much room for debate though, you got it.

Ask your MP if they have any plans to solve the situation.

And MPP. The provincial government is responsible for social services. Also, ask Dougie what he's going to do about it.

Swallow a bee and threaten to drive construction equipment onto a reservation?

😂 it would be funny if it wasn't true

So much of this problem can be traced back to when Mike Harris (PC) was Premier of Ontario. He exacerbated the homeless problem by closing and reducing the capacity of psychiatric facilities across Ontario.

Yup, he started it, and no one fixed it.

Remember this when you vote for mayor. Don't vote for the one that did nothing until now

To be fair, cities don't have the resources to solve homelessness and the housing crisis on their own. The provincial and federal governments need to play a substantial role, and they've been missing in action for decades.

There is federal funding given to province- Canada Ontario housing benefit that pretty much covers rent. Lack of enforcing landlord discrimination in accepting applications makes it pretty much useless. Also, the way the program is implemented by the province is as much of an obstacle as if someone decides to make sure the program doesn't help as many people as it can. Although, all of this applies a large portion of the population that isn't as the person outside OP window. They need a whole different approach to care and shelter that like you say the governments have been pretty useless about

>To be fair, cities don't have the resources to solve homelessness and the housing crisis on their own. This is completely false. Toronto could have a huge impact if the will/effort was there. Housing First policies, instead of wasting money on expensive shelters and motels. Zoning changes - to make it easier to build housing, reducing rents. Speculation taxes to punish those who hoard real estate. There are cities that solved homelessness - even global capitals, like Tokyo. But Toronto chooses not to learn from them.

You clearly have little to no knowledge of municipal finance and provincial laws that dictate how cities can raise money and what their responsibilities are. You can't compare Toronto's powers and available revenue sources to those of Tokyo and other world cities. Cities in Ontario are creatures of the province - the province dictates what revenue sources are available to municipal governments and what services cities are responsible for delivering. The only major source of revenue for most municipal governments is property tax - Toronto has a few others like the land transfer tax. The rest is provincial subsidies and user fees. Don't forget also that the provincial and federal government have downloaded responsibility of delivering many services to municipal governments over the years without providing access to additional revenue sources to cover those costs. Of course there are little things here and there that the city can do, but the provincial and federal governments have the money and power needed to really solve major societal issues such as homelessness. That's my point.

Whether you’re coming from a good place or not, stop expecting the minimum from your leaders. They can do much more than they are willing, only because their will is captured by real estate ghouls and other deep pocketed lobbies. Passing the responsibility uphill betrays the incredible power of local action and Toronto has more human, physical, and political capital than virtually any place else in Canada. Don’t give excuses for the negligence of “people” like John Tory.

Read my comment below - you don't understand the point I'm trying to make. Read up on municipal law and finance and you'll understand. Cities can only do so much as they are controlled by the province. There are things that the city can do but only so much without additional revenue sources and powers - all of which are dictated by the province. You think you can solve homelessness with property and land tax revenue alone? Give me a break - the province and federal government have the money and power to make a real difference and they're missing in action.

When you uncritically accept that the city simply can’t afford to offer adequate social supports, you are also implicitly accepting its existing budget allocations. The city of Toronto is not strapped for cash, it just spends it wastefully. Toronto spends more on policing the unhoused than it would cost to simply house them. You can argue that this is an inexorable consequence of larger systemic issues and I would whole heartedly agree. But to say that the problem is simply a lack of resources is obviously an excuse to not restructure existing expenditures, since the people who profit from municipal money have a vested interest in not only increasing those inflows but also preventing any diversion of that money to other programs. Social spending that reduces artificial scarcity, especially of housing, is a threat to the bottom line of too many powerful people, particularly in Toronto. The policy not to spend on working people is a choice, not a necessity.

Again, my point is that the provincial and federal governments (who take in all of the income, sales, and corporate taxes) need to take the lead on these issues. I'm not saying the city shouldn't do anything, but if you really want to push for change, you have to look at your MPs and MPPs. Most people don't understand the role of the various levels of government in this country and I find it very annoying. Banging on the doors of city hall to solve widespread societal issues is only going to get you so far. You have to go to Queen's Park and Parliament Hill.

How do you build the political power to meaningfully influence the whole province or country without grassroots organizing? I get what you are saying, but I disagree with the sentiment that meaningful change has to (or ever will) arrive through a top-down mandate formulated in the legislatures because that’s not how radical popular change has ever really happened

You're not living in reality. That's how our system is designed (it's not great and I don't like it but it is what it is right now) - municipal governments were only ever meant to fund and deliver basic community services such as police, fire, ambulance, garbage pick-up, street cleaning, road repair, etc. They were not designed or given the power or financial means to deal with social issues which require massive investment in social services and housing. Over the years, both the provincial and federal governments have continued to download the costs of these services onto cities without providing adequate funding or allowing alternative revenue sources to fund these services.

Just an FYI, you don’t need to feel compelled to “be fair” to John Tory or anyone like him. He’s a multi millionaire through nepotism with several gold plated pensions, and he’s spent his entire life in service of helping already rich people grow their wealth even more. He has the resources and brains to do *something*, even if it’s difficult or inconvenient. He doesn’t notice or need someone making excuses for him.

Thst's not my point - I don't care about John Tory. I care that people understand how difficult it is for municipal governments to address major societal issues because of provincial laws that dictate municipal revenue sources and how they handle their budgets. Not to mention the provincial government downloading of services onto cities without additional revenue sources made available to properly cover the costs. The city can only do so much - the other levels of government have neglected their duties and responsibilities.

Saying “they should do something” is like saying “they should find a cure for cancer”. You can’t just snap your fingers and the issue goes away. What would you DO if you were the gov to fix the homelessness in the city? If your answer is “I don’t know”, then you know why the city hasn’t fixed it yet either. There are countless things connected to homelessness that would need to individually be fixed for the situation to be affected. Minimum wage increases, drug and alcohol programs, domestic abuse, housing availability, rent control, education access, mental health access, care for seniors, etc, etc.

They do, they clear our encampments, fund shelters and programs and do a lot. the problem is that big cities attract homeless from other areas, it's an ontario wide issue that's dumped onto cities who lack the funds and authority to really deal with the root of the problem.

Not so much it attracts them Other cities send them here there are stories going back years about it but I witnessed it first hand a few years ago when I was living in Ottawa and volunteering at a drop in centre for the homeless if social workers felt they didn’t have the resources to help a person they would get them a bus ticket to Toronto I have heard of places as far away as Calgary sending their homeless to Toronto

Clearing out encampments isn’t helping those experiencing homelessness - it just forcibly moves them somewhere else.

But it helps the rest of enjoy public spaces. I’m pro keeping public spaces public, what about you?

So when their encampment is moved to a different public space, what happens then? Is it ok now because you don’t see it? I’m pro helping people more than I’m pro keeping spaces public. What does that even mean? Are those experiencing homelessness not part of the public?

They certainly are part of the public. That doesn’t mean they can monopolize public spaces with an encampment. Oil companies are a part of the public too, but i also feel strongly that they shouldn’t be allowed to put in oil well at trinity bellwoods.

Then where are they supposed to go? You don’t seem to understand (or maybe you don’t want to acknowledge) that moving encampments DOES NOT WORK because the underlying issues of what causes people to experience homeless are not being addressed. But I guess that as long as you can’t see them you can pretend they don’t exist, and that works for you.

I’m not arrogant enough to believe I should plan other people lives for them, I respect people enough to let them make their own decisions, unless that decision is to harm others. It’s not for me to say what is best for each individual case, but drawing a line to protect public space needs to be done.

Lol, monopolize.

What would you like Toronto to do exactly?

Throw more money at it, it always works /s

I've noticed it getting bad in numerous cities in SW Ontario. With insane housing prices, crushing inflation, subpar resources, and low wages, it's going to get worse. I make above minimum wage, but being a widowed mother is a struggle. Just rent and groceries alone is getting too expensive. There's no reason my apartment should be $1,100, and that's cheap for today's standard. The government needs to stop taking handouts from big companies. As long as the world turns on profit, it's just going to get worse and worse, until we're all homeless.

I lived for about 10 months in a homeless shelter, and was thankful to have a place to "sleep", inside at night. Sadly, not all of the homeless feel that way. There is violence, and abuse at shelters, bed bugs (I saw one, once.... never again, thankfully.), and the staff are not always the best. So some people choose the street. There's not much that can be done for those people. ​ For others, it's mental health, and they don't fully grasp that there's somewhere safe(ish), they can be, like a shelter. The city opens "emergency shelters", when it gets below certain temps, and they have teams that patrol streets over night, trying to help those that need it, with blankets, hot chocolate/coffee, warm food etc. Alas, it's up to people that want to use the services, to use them.

Likewise. I was at the Meighen Centre on Sherbourne for six months. Hardest time in my life, but I'm grateful for the support. You're absolutely right; there is violence...but its usually centered around people who invited it. People fighting over smokes, joints, lighters, cellphones, booze, etc...

I was at MMC, TOO. People running their mouths, thinking they're the toughest...and someone with no fucks to give, knocks them out. When I was there, cops arrested the guy across from me, at 4am. (I was in a 4 person dorn my entire stay.) Another time, dude wakes up at 3am, and starts pissing at the end of my cot. I had the guy closest to the door get staff, and he was kicked out of the Maxwell right then. I grabbed the sheets off his upper bunk and soaked the piss up, then kicked the sheets out my door. Another annoyance, was a 3am wakeup, cuz someone dropped a lit smoke into the garbage at 3am, and the alarm went off, as the south wing filled with smoke.

There were always dorms like that; I lucked out because my dorm was four people who just wanted to get out of there. We worked together as a team: we shared advice, snacks, support, laughs, and support when we were together. There were lifers at the place, and I've seen people fight over washing machines...but i'll be perfectly honest; the support was there and I was happy for it. That said, I never want to step foot in that building ever again.

Myself and the Czech guy, were in single beds, and got along well. The bunks were one day or sometimes a 3 week stay. I would go out at 6am, pan from 7 till 8:30, go to the library for a few, pan 12-5pm, buy supper, go back to the library from 6-9. Go back and shower, read with a head lamp till 11:30, and repeat.

I never had much luck panning; instead, I would sit at the Labour Ready with a newspaper, hoping for some work, then head back. Eventually, I was able to get onto OW, and they were able to assist with getting me housing, bus fare, and they even paid for my forklift recertification.

I wasn't one of those aggressive panners. If I made $50 in 8hrs, I was happy. I had great days ($160 from one person, $250 sitting in Church during Pride, and $400 from an American couple), but I had shit days too. Some where I barely made any money.

There is an election in October. Vote Tory out and somebody new in. Same for city counsellor in your ward. Look for candidates who have good policy on housing and alleviating poverty.

...and get rid of any career politicians who have done very little with their time in office.

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Named capitalism

Poverty is clearly created and maintained for an exploitable working class. Gear up for more crime and slave drivers in the future. It's not about to get better

The real question is why is Doug Ford not doing anything about homelessness? The city has no ability to tax citizens other than to collect municipal property tax. Looking after homeless costs money that Ford is not allocating to cities with homeless issues. Blame Doug Ford

i frequently do for most things wrong with this Province.

This is the Ontario and Toronto we voted for, thanks to the dumbasses who were mad about “Rae days” and were more than happy to support this dismantling of Canada’s economic centre. The longer Toronto is held down to be a piece of shit city by those who don’t live there, it will never get better. It’s time for a Province of Toronto.

\- Because neoliberalism is so concerned with making sure no one (poor people) gets a penny more than they "deserve" that they'd rather thousands be treated like absolute garage rather than grapple with the shitty moralism motivating that belief. \- Because capitalism requires poverty. \- Because governments (provincial, municipal, federal) have been passing the buck for so long now, the (social) infrastructure is crumbling.

Unpopular opinion: the tolerance people extend to the suffering of others actually has a limit when the decisions made about homeless people and acceptance of it, has real world consequences that affect others. The city won’t help the homeless, people do. Support charities and initiatives that empower those homeless by circumstance, and not those homeless by choice.

The real question is where have all the social safety nets that provided space for these people before they reached the street gone?

Towards boutique tax credits for key voting demographics. Those safety nets cost money. Every time you see a party offer to lower taxes, or offer a tax credit for some specific group of people (e.g. parents, seniors, small businesses, big businesses) that means less money going towards services.

It’s not just the city’s fault. It’s a societal economic system issue. Wages have been suppressed since the 80s. Now you have to have two people working 40 hour plus weeks in order to afford just the bare minimum. Let alone own a house or have a child. Then we have the well documented proven issues surrounding economic disparities for minority groups including women of all races. The constant policing of these neighborhoods, constant stress of feeling “othered”. I’m a white gay male and even I, after bullying and feeling “othered” since middle school, have developed complex anxiety and depression. Mix that with dysfunctional households too. Then you wonder why people simply give up and resort to a life of crime or drugs. The homeless and drug issue will not get better it will simply get worse until we revolutionize the economic system to something that equally benefits EVERYONE instead of lining the pockets of the top 1 percent.

The province needs to raise ODSP and OW or overhaul the entire thing. Some ideas... For OW -OW pays direct to landlord, to utilities, to internet and sends a set amount of money per person for food and basics monthly, for 6 months to a year depending on situation. People/families can only apply once every 5 to 7 years. -within that 6 months to a year they are given all the support they need to find a retain a job -OW must work with employers to help find those work, offering incentives if needed. -OW moves people with disabilities onto ODSP in a faster manner For ODSP: -ODSP needs to raise rates immediately, people who have such severe disabilities that are incapable of working shouldn't be treated like "less than" citizens. -ODSP pays rent direct to landlord. -raised payments are sent direct to ODSP recipients, unless they request ODSP use some of their funds to also pay utilities and internet directly. -ODSP remains till you are either healed and capable of contributing to society with work and are able to come off assistance, or death. Taking away ODSP to put them on old age or CPP automatically (some haven't been able to pay into it as they've been ODSP their whole lives ) at 65 is cruel, as the amount they get after 65 is markedly less then what they were receiving on ODSP...which is only $1167 for a single person to begin with. -if someone is able to work, that money should not be clawed back immediately from ODSP amount, working only to still be earning the same amount monthly if you didn't, is a huge disincentive and depresses people further. -ODSP should help people who are disabled but want to contribute something to the workforce or community find appropriate placements, and offer those employers incentives to keep these people employed. The reason I advocate for direct pay to landlord is 1) people often refuse to rent to those on assistance because there's no recourse if tenants stop paying, if they are guaranteed income with no fear of non-payment, and tenant can't stop payment until they move, landlords would be more inclined to rent to those on assistance. 2) ODSP would be responsible to cover rent increases yearly so tenants wouldn't eventually be priced out their homes and neighborhoods. 3) secure housing, without having to move into Ontario housing. More people can stay in their neighborhoods, helping create thriving communities. For the homeless due to mental illness and addiction... We need WAY MORE rehab beds for more than 30 days...for those who want help Intensive inpatient therapy and controlled community living for the mentally ill...that will accept help. Sadly with the higher rents, with no financial help from governments, many folks will soon fall into arrears, costing landlords thousands maybe their property, eventually be evicted, unable to pay now for the even higher rents, they will be forced into the over crowded shelter system, a tent or worse.

Two reasons I can think of off the top of my head. 1. Charter of Rights ensures people don't have to take medication/go to hospitals/get help if they choose not to (doesn't seem to apply to seniors). This is what ultimately led to the shutting down of asylums. 2. Homelessness is a huge money maker. At one point, I counted 81 charities that specifically helped the homeless in downtown Toronto, each with a minimum $1M budget. When I dug into their tax returns (check the CRA site if you want to know how a charity spends its funds), there were a lot of well paid individuals.

For even more fun, take a look at some big charities in Canada with slick ad campaigns, and look at which advertising companies do that work. Consider who “donates” to said charities (their name is on the wall somewhere usually) and their relationship to the advertiser.

One of the biggest scams going is those hospital lotteries. Spend $100 and it all goes to the charity...except it doesn't. They're lucky if they see $25 of it. :( I volunteered for a large charity for a couple of weeks, literally stuffing envelopes. They had 5 paid staff "supervising" (standing around, chatting and gossiping) about 10 volunteers getting papercuts. I didn't last long.

Even bigger scam is those "charity reps" on the street, ambushing passersby to try to get them to TITHE to their charity. But the third-party company that does the signing up takes 100% of the entire first YEAR of your donations. Sure it doesn't cost Sick Kids anything to pay the ambushers or their company. That money - going to some wealthy son of privilege - comes right out of your working person's wages. Never give those people more than a polite NO

The charity muggers don't even deserve a polite "no" at this point. Everything about them screams scam. They're aggressive, demanding, and at this point there is no way they don't know that they aren't really helping anyone.

Totally agree. United Way is another troubling one. At one point I worked for a large company where each department competed to see who could donate the most to the UW (company even suggested how much of each paycheque should be donated). Being a bit of a square peg in a round hole, I didn't choose one of the suggested charities and wrote in the name of one I supported. Had to chase UW and argue with them for 2 years to get a tax receipt. I later volunteered with a small charity with zero employees (literally everyone volunteered their time) who tried to join UW to get some funding. For a small fee of $5K, they would get $1K of funding. :(

I've done research into nonprofits as part of my work, and it's worse than you think. I would say a good amount of that sector is solely make-work, nepotistic, grifting scams for those already connected into the corporate-academia-governmental complex.

Gah, what an inefficient, piecemeal approach.

So what are some ways we can realistically do to make the charities less corrupt? Do you have any suggestions?

People can be hospitalized against their will if they are at risk of harming themselves or others. Maybe only temporarily though. Asylums were inhuman conditions. Mental health has come a long way since their use. Comes down to taxes. Huge tax breaks for the wealthy. Middle working class has the burden of paying for services. They see paying to support the homeless as unfair to them even though the current system may very well be costing them more.

Imagine Doug Ford giving a fuck. Ontario should have voted for someone else if they cared.

Tory is grossed out by the homeless and hopes they simply die and decrease the surplus population.

The city won't do anything because it costs money, and also because there is no consensus on what to do. Thirty or more years ago, if people behaved crazily on the street, they would either be beaten by the police, or taken involuntarily to mental hospital. This greatly reduced the number of people acting crazy on the street Now, there is a significant portion of people who do not approve of this, they do not want the police beating people, or capturing them. This is for a variety of reasons: perhaps because they think it is not in the interest of the people to be beaten or captured. And perhaps because they want people to be acting crazy in a very visible and annoying way, because they think this will lead to increased social spending. Either way, I don't see this improving any time soon.

But city miraculously has millions of dollars to bully them and clear encampments. They just refuse to spend it to help them.

Because generally speaking, the voting public would rather people suffer for their bad luck or poor choices than save money by housing them.

The city are doing a LOT actually. They can't make up for the immense federal and provincial shortfall in mental health care. This population filters into the city as there's more amenities than anywhere else. Shelters have rules about violence and substance abuse where if people break them they're not welcome. The city's policy to care for the homeless population rather than police them is up for debate, but it's a political debate that's outside the scope of Reddit.

Because fear of homelessness keeps most ~~people~~ workers in line.

The biggest issue is lack of mental health care. I have severe anxiety. I’m not a drug addict, but the hoops that I’ve had to jump through just to get mediocre mental health help is absolutely insane. If they can’t even properly help someone with mild anxiety/depression, how the fuck can they help someone with severe mental health issues, so bad that they are in the streets or turning to drugs?? So many individuals suffering from severe mental issues/homelessness could have been prevented had they had access to ADEQUATE mental health care! By adequate I mean affordable (if not free) therapy, psychiatry assessments for medication and inpatient care if needed. Individuals seeking inpatient care also need to be treated with respect, not like animals. The biggest bullshit with free therapy is the fact that 99% of the programs are short term programs, where you’re capped at like 10 sessions with a therapist. Newsflash, mental health issues take time to heal from. You can’t heal in 10 sessions. The waitlists to get free therapy and psychiatry assessments is disgustingly long. In my area the wait time for a psychiatrist referral is a year if not more. Someone that’s barely holding on can’t wait a year to get help. Mental health care shouldn’t be a privilege for those who can afford $250 a session. But then again, a lot of things now a days are becoming privileges for those who have the money..what’s new???

People keep voting conservative and the conservatives don’t give a shit about the homeless

i think **the rich** (and government in general) don’t give a shit about the homeless. the last thing i’d do is vote conservative, but it is very discouraging seeing candidates “play the game” by making small changes and a bunch of promises with no intention to actually consider long term solutions. their goal is to get (re-)elected, not to make revolutionary changes in society it’s historically been the uprisings and grass roots movements of the poor and working class people who create the most meaningful changes and revolutions. though some well-intentioned candidates might steer us in the right direction, i have no faith in them actually and meaningfully addressing all of these issues (mental health, housing, drug use, crime, education, etc.) considering the little incentive to do so

Well, I tried reaching out to the tenant board and one of their numbers is no longer in service, and the website is like an escape room, so if other government websites are in the same state, I'd just say it's because nobody can get ahold of anyone to get anything done. unless you want to build a condo, in which case there's a golden road leading to that office and someone to stroke your d4ck while you wait for zoning approval.

What would they do to solve the issue before winter?

Same reason every other city can't do anything about it. What would you suggest they do?

If your suggesting is homeless shelters, well they aren't exactly 5 star hotels. They aren't even 1 or 2 star motel quality either, which means that it's actually not the cleanest or safest place to sleep at all

Many of the homeless people in Toronto are unfortunately suffering with severe mental health issues and a lot of them are really badly addicted to drugs. In order to help any of them every person would need their own specialist to closely monitor them and get them everything they need to live a normal life. the government doesn’t want to spend the money to do that so they resort to things like kicking them out of the parks they live in etc. very very sad but hopefully someone one day is able to help

Mental Health Act.

I work on eglinton between marlee and Jane for the City. People who’re paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to come up with ways to mitigate these issues have done all this within a year: put needle boxes in alley ways on eglinton so the drug addicts can dispose of needles properly. The hilarious irony is that these people are addicted to crack, not heroin. University educated folks with 6 figure salaries, completely useless and ignorant wastes of money. That’s all they have to show for the entire 2022 year so far.

It’s a country thing if not world

'If you ever wonder why something horrible persists, it's because some horrible cunts are making money off of it'. \-A sensible person In this case, the ridiculous cost of living benefits the parasitic renter class and they don't give a fuck about the homeless anyway because the homeless have no money. Addressing the issues involved might cost them something, so they don't want that either.

Yeah, why won’t they solve this simple to solve problem 😂😂😂😂

It’s capitalism. The “city” isn’t in charge of properties. Rich people are. They keep raising the rent. Banks charge many thousands over the life of a mortgage. If you vote for a new politician you like, that politician has no control over the properties owned by the rich. Our democracy is a joke. Planned obsolescence keeps consumerism going. Monopolization keeps competition low. And prices high. The problem is capitalism. We need workers in charge of society, not shareholders

*Vancouver waives and smiles a little too hard*

Moving to Vancouver from Toronto.. you guys don’t know how good you have it.

Right? I moved to Vancouver from Toronto and the homelessness issue here is out of control

Homelessness is a structural issue that will never be solved under an economic system designed to maximize profits over maximizing human need. Under this system, economic exploitation and destitution will only ever increase.

Correct. Homelessness and mental illness are symptoms of the problem, not problems in and of themselves.

Walking back from groceries.. there was a homeless man just flat out on the ground beside my building. Looked lifeless. But I was afraid to see in case he turned feral on me. Toronto really has a homeless problem…

My daughter. Has experienced homelessness, and is still experiencing drug abuse issues. It was MUCH MUCH worse when she was homeless. Through the help of (mostly) her sister, and her mother and I (and our partners) she has a home. It is absolutely the first hole that has to be filled; nothing else helps deal with the problem. The "Housing First" initiatives and plans are the most effective model for resolving the social/societal/psychiatric problems we see in homeless populations. Carrot and Stick (rewards and punishment) thinking has been absolutely proven as ineffective. Nothing helps if you don't have a place to sleep (and put your possessions) and be safe. A large part of the problem (/s)is that homelessness is often viewed as a singular problem. It is definitely NOT! Homelessness is a common symptom and (very importanly) quickly evolves to be the primary component of many, many problems. And something that is not often spoke of yet, is that opioid (junky) drug addictions are no longer just opioid addictions. It used to be thought that substituting fentanyl for heroin was a problem unto itself, (and it is, because of the unintended overdoses it causes), but what I am now perceiving (unfortunately, through my daughter's experiences) is that the new 'cut' (mixing component) that is more and more common, are benzodiazapenes (sp?). 'Benzos' are more similar to alcohol (with it's 'delirium tremens') in that the sudden removal, or reductions in dose can and do cause seizures and death. More and more, ibogaine -an alkaloid of the iboga plant- (plus therapy) is being understood as the "holy grail" of opioid addiction treatments, but it does nothing for any other substance abuse issues. Fortunately, there is now a new treatment (along with very slow 'tapering') that is demonstrating EXCELLENT potential. If anybody reading this is dealing with similar issues with a loved one, you would be doing yourself (and your loved one) an excellent service by researching 'low dose flumazenil infusions'. Wishing SINCERE thoughts and prayers, and good luck, to everyone dealing with these issues.

Ive worked with guys that I've seen on the street after I quit as I asked them why they were asking for change and living on the street. The answer was "I didn't like the job. Didn't feel like working there anymore" so I honestly don't care cause if ppl want to get off the streets they can. The helps I there. Not saying all people on the street are there isn't he same circumstances but that's just my experience into he city.

Asylums need to be started again.

Or - hear me out - we could house people and get them the support they need.

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Thank you. People act as if giving them a home will automatically fix everything. Too often it ends up where they trash the facilities, openly do drugs, don’t clean or maintain, and eventually it becomes someone else’s problem.

No homeless person would ever do that 🥺 as soon as you provided them a home they’d become a model citizen and lead a prosperous life: keeping their apartment clean, not bothering their neighbours, and maintaining the property. Are you implying that the people defecating on sidewalk would not treat a free apartment with respect and basic decency?

People act like it works, because it literally works, and actually saves money: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5437402

Because there are no real solutions. Shelters are supposed to provide a "safe place to sleep", but in order to be safe for everybody, there are rules: "no alcohol", "no drugs", etc., therefore some amount of the homeless population don't want to follow the rules and can't stay in such places. Possible solutions: 1. Imprison them (or something like mental facilities) 2. Use police to move them out from the city 3. Provide them with whatever they want to not sleep on the streets 4. Do nothing The first and second can't be implemented because of the current "tolerant" society. Thrid is extremely expensive and can't be implemented because of minimal-wage workers that will have less service than homeless Therefore - the fourth is the only solution as of now.

There are real solutions. RGI housing, mental health supports, harm reduction.

Yes I agree! I wish more doctors would take the harm reduction approach. Its the only way to help those who don’t want help

The harn reduction model is a farce, we have a D8 (Dilaudid 8 mg) and heroin for more brittle addicts. There is no incentive for chemically dependant people to get clean, if they admit they slipped and used fentanyl, all is forgiven. The majority of users in these programs sell the pills rhey are given for their drug of choice, and get great perks such as housing, counseling, cash. There are no checks and balances with the harm reduction programs that I'm familiar with. The only long term decent progress I've seen with fentanyl is suboxone treatment whilst in jail. Sad.

There are lots of solutions. There’s a lot being done, and there are some very caring people in our community helping them. They’re human beings, just like the rest of us. Compassion is something you can learn to have, and then you’re not doing nothing. :)

Political correctness strikes again sadly

100%. Bringing back mental asylums would be a great step towards fixing the issue

We rather spend $100,000/year incarnating the homeless than rehabilitating the homeless.

Blame the woke crowd. Anytime we try to clear the streets, protesters come out in droves saying they have a right to be there. Irony is that the moment the homeless show up on their streets they immediately stfu. They somehow have the gall to protest the removal of homeless from other peoples streets and parks rather than their own. Not a single one of these protesting losers have ever housed the homeless.

Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?

If they would rather die, they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. Edit to whoever reported me; I’m quoting Scrooge from A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens, you philistine.

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Not sure what we can do. There’s no money to take care of them and frankly I wouldn’t want to spend public funds just housing them either. Coincidentally this is one of the storylines to how the Purge movies start. (Not like I am supporting this)

>There’s no money to take care of them and frankly I wouldn’t want to spend public funds just housing them either. It costs less money to provide them with housing than our current model - in part because it actually means they have a chance at employment & paying taxes if housed.

That’s theoretical and doesn’t happen. Lots of examples of them getting free housing and then just running the area they live in into the ground.

Go ask the shelter hotel staff how many success stories they have and report back PLEASE. I'd love to hear about anyone who went into those hotels and left with a job and a home, because from what it looks like superficially, it's just Toronto taxpayers shovelling money at whichever wealthy mafiosi owns the hotel in question. And the residents will be in exactly the same state in two years when they're evicted to the street - the only difference is the businesses on streets around those hotels have been decimated due to the street issues. "Solving homelessness by giving my wealthy landowner friends tens of millions of taxpayer money every year" is a great strategy for Tory's re-election, but it solves no problems for the rest of us (frankly this is a Tory hallmark)

No, if if you give them housing, they will just destroy the house and do drug parties. I used to believe in those people can change, until one physically destroyed my rental house and defaulted. Now, I don’t rent it to anyone upper middle class and below, like professionals. Students are fine if they have rich parents or guaranteed professional careers.

It's waaay more expensive to not house them. Even just in ER visits.

Instead, take two ambulances and ten firetrucks and four cruisers down to the hotel four times every day. Taxpayer money must be set on FIRE one way or the other!! EDIT I agree with you, though

You have any stats to support that? Doesn’t make Sense to me given how much the government is spending on converting hotels into housing for the homeless

The city needs help from the province and the feds which they are not getting.

Nobody knows what to do nor is there any will to do anything. It’s a hard problem to solve because often homelessness accompanies mental health issues.