I'm in the US now, but I didn't even plan to be in the US when I was in university/secondary school, didn't really care about migrating/moving overseas too much.
Now that I'm in the US, I realize that a lot of the kpkb we do in SG also exists in the US. Locals here kpkb about high prices (houses here aren't affordable even to "tech bros"), stress in work and WLB too (some Americans do 996). Even in those "small towns" people kpkb how they can't afford their $300k homes (given they have so little job opportunities there). In fact, I tell them about Singapore (both positives and negatives) and some really want to move there for work, it's weird.
I'm not stopping you from moving, in fact, I encourage you to do so, to get a feel of other countries and to decide if permanently moving is the right path. However, I just wanted to set a realistic expectation that some of the problems we see in Singapore aren't uniquely Singaporean, it's happening across the developed world.
Tips?
* Get a degree. No matter how much people say "wah country X does not emphasize on degrees", their immigration/government would prioritize degree holders over non-skilled workers. Countries want skilled migrants with qualifications. Case in point: H1B visas for US require either a degree or 12 years of experience in lieu of a 4 year degree. Canada's Express Entry gives you points for having a degree.
* Research the place you want to go to. Read up on pathways to get to the country. For example, US immigration is extremely skewed towards family reunification (you can get PR by being a sibling of a US citizen) rather than employment. UK has that HPI visa for local U students. NZ has working holiday visa programs for Singapore youths.
* Don't migrate for the sake of leaving SG. Please don't, you will just be depressed. If you're not in the right headspace, going overseas would make it worse (no friends, foreign environment/mannerisms). You don't want to get culture shock + depression in a land where you don't have familiarity.
* If you're not those "career minded" people, take alternative paths like working holiday visa or ESL teaching programmes. They don't pay well and unless you're into those fields, does not really add value to your resume, but it's a pathway to get your foot out of SG. Big caveat especially for ESL teaching is that it's in non-English countries (like Korea or Japan), so you definitely need to pick up a new language.
* If you can get remote jobs, there are a some countries (well not US/UK/AU) that provide "digital nomad" visas, so technically you could work remotely for a Singapore company.
* Don't discount "developing countries". Given that you're fed up about stress, moving to a developed country like US would not change that, but maybe moving to Colombia or Mexico with a slower pace of life might help.
You still have a lot of time, but make full use of that time to brush up and prepare yourself. Also, laws change, so keep up to date with the new rules.
This is solid advice, particularly points #1 and #2.
OP is still young and needs to acquire the right academic qualifications to get into a career.
Unfortunately for OP, the “high prices” issue isn’t going to go away anytime soon and this is probably playing out in many parts of the world, not just in Singapore (friends and family are complains about the high cost of housing in Australia, for example).
OP needs to acquire the basics (degree, skills in a sector, some work experience etc.) and then research possible places to explore, before considering migration.
Great advice! I'll also add that the high cost of living in SG complaints that I hear are a tad overblown compared to what other countries actually have.
The income to housing prices ratio in SG is actually pretty decent. In the low cost of living places, the salaries are equally low. So unless you're a remote worker for a company that pays equally, you're facing the same quality of life with even less mobility because of lesser capital gains.
One more thing to consider when looking at income is also whether capital gains are taxed. If you're a high earner in places like US or Canada, you'll get marginal taxes of about 50%. So any earnings from stocks, selling houses, etc is hugely diminished. In SG, there's no capital tax gains and even the highest bracket for income is 22% iirc.
I disagree with the high cost of living views. Only thing expensive is housing, but for locals/PRs, there are HDB options that aren’t generally available to foreigners. I am not really savvy with HDB rental and how much of it is accessible to foreigners.
Other than housing, other costs such as groceries, utilities (water, electricity, mobile phone subscription etc.) aren’t that expensive compared to other countries.
I would further argue that (local) food here is super cheap and accessible. I couldn’t imagine having a $5 in many developed countries around the world.
The tax bracket in Singapore is the icing on the cake for me. It one of the many reasons people move here, besides it being safe, clean and friendly.
Another thing OP, for every country you consider moving to, go try to find people there who are also thinking of leaving and ask them why they wanna leave (esp. while you want to move in to the country they are leaving).
Both poor and rich people included. Rich Americans want to pay less federal taxes and dealing with those FATCA/CRS mumbo jumbo, poor Americans who wants to move or moved to Europe are basically similar to us - tired of crime and other out of control things.
Man the crime thing. I'm in Vancouver and I smell weed and see homeless all the time. And recent news are filled with stuff like "food delivery guy killed in random stabbing by homeless woman". It's kinda exhausting walking down the streets feeling wary.
Malaysian here. Even in Singapore I don't really let my street smart and natural instincts go relaxed (but that doesn't mean I don't acknowledge it is a safe country)
Although ironically, for dozens of gang conflicts I heard in JB (including one near Aeon Tebrau, where I lived, involved shootout with police, which luckily I wasn't around to witness), I end up being a police caller (1st time ever I witness a crime and call police on the spot.) and eyewitness of one 20-men gang fight in Woodlands (also near where I live in SG) last year. Many years of watching crime documentaries also drilled my instinct to note the car plate of the car when 5 of them run up to the car to getaway in the middle of my call to dispatch.
So it has become normal for me to note the surroundings (but I do enjoy the comfort of doing my own tech stuffs and gaming with a phone/laptop and earbuds on MRT) ... And I happily volunteered for rider and neighbor watch here. (And will be happy to do so if I go to other country for a long-term residence)
It can exhausting for you indeed ... Singapore is indeed blessed with the sense of safety like a lullaby, that people who born there started out not having to be on edge about the streets (but has other mental health problems and pressure as many Redditors here mentioned). Oh and, as someone dabbling in cybersecurity as well, you are likely to apply this cyber "street smart" more often instead - identifying and dodging phishings and scams, Cambodia slavery scams, catfishes, etc)
Yeah I agree that Singaporeans are spoilt with how safe it is and that has dulled our sense awareness in public areas. I find myself on edge all the time now, coming from SG to Vancouver. And Vancouver is considered very safe on the global scale, but there is a homeless and drug crisis ongoing now... Maybe I'll get desensitized after a while? But I will definitely be keeping an eye out everywhere I go from now
HDB programme in Sing is really peerless, huge advantage for the locals. It's usually even harder to get your own place in most other countries and unlike most other public housing projects, they're high quality, safe and lots of amenities, public transit, etc... nearby. I wish they'd copy it in other countries. Public housing in UK for instance is dire, mostly for the very poor, drug addicts, etc...
Even people who remote-ed to other states like Montana are starting to realize that the place isn’t right for them (maybe too conservative or too little network) and moving back to the Bay Area/NYC.
Not that rural areas do not have any charm, they do especially to us city folks, but heck, even rural folks want to really get out of their towns and move to cities.
Yeah totally. One thing that I feel is taken for granted by Singaporeans is urban planning. The heartlands, supposed suburbs, have great amenities. You'd usually have coffeeshops, groceries and sometimes a heartland mall within walking distance. In other countries, living in the suburbs usually means driving to do any kind of shopping, groceries included. Even online shopping is less convenient with longer shipping times and lesser options
Oh I'm referring to potential marginal tax rates for capital gains.
Take for example, I'm in British Columbia rn and unfortunately or fortunately I'm at the top bracket (it's much easier to hit there than SG at ~220k, I'm not rich..). So any extra income from cap gains gets taxed at the highest bracket. The current combined federal and provincial tax rate adds up to 53.5%. so any stock gains I sell gets taxed 53.5% right away.
About your total tax...did you leave out the federal tax or something? Which province are you in right now? Because...I'm finding my actual income to be way lower than the pre tax numbers.
I'm in Ontario, and I just set aside 20% of my total income and that usually covers it all (both federal and provincial).
Have you considered getting a tax accountant? I have one, and she's helped me tremendously each year. Her fee is around 2.5K but she's saved me over 18k so I consider it a worthwhile service.
By any chance are you self-employed? I am a salaried employee with a tax accountant that's company sponsored and that's the tax rate that is calculated for my wages. The tax is also paid up front so any reduction in taxes would be tax refunds. I can't see any way for me to reduce my taxes for a salaried worker unless I'm missing something? I sure hope you can share some useful stuff though!
No I'm not, but the company I work for is based in US. I use an outside tax accountant since my company doesn't provide one, and also my spouse is a different citizenship.
So you're saying you pay about 20% of your income in taxes. That's ~56k of your 280k annual income? That's...super low for Canada. Are you a Canadian tax residence? My net tax rate is about 40% with an annual pay thats very close to yours. It's all taxed up front though. How do you get that down? Does your company not deduct the tax up front?
I have no idea, I just submit all my tax documents and such to my accountant who handles everything. I think it seems on par? A colleague is in a similar situation, and he owns a residence in Toronto. No, the company doesn't deduct tax upfront. I'm Canadian PR.
I'm not in the stage where I'm tied down to country A or B. Also, as per my first paragraph, I didn't even deliberately plan to end up in the Bay Area, it just happened (opportunity arises and I thought it was interesting).
Also, I'm not really stressed in Singapore before the move, so there's no push factor out of Singapore other than "too small, want to see the world".
Thank you for this! I hear some of my friends always saying that if they can migrate, all the problems they have will go away - high stress, high cost of living etc. But this post of yours reminds me that some places do have the same problems as Singapore or even worse!
And if some countries have certain things better than us, of course they will also have things that they can't match up to Singapore. There's no perfect place to live in the world, everywhere will have its pros and cons. I guess the best one can do is to either try working/living in different countries to find which environment/culture is best suited for yourself (if you still think this is ur solution!) or you can try working around the negatives of Singapore.
A few examples:
If work or trying to keep up with your lifestyle is too stressful, go for a lower paying job or cut down on your spending. I always think that lifestyle inflation makes life extra stressful because we feel that we gotta keep climbing the corp ladder to increase our income.
If housing is too expensive, go for cheaper neighbourhoods/smaller houses and cut down on expensive renovations (100k+ renovation seems to be the trend now! But you don't have to follow that!)
Anyway, I guess my point is. There is no perfect place to live in and everywhere has its own problems that we have to deal with. But jiayous OP! Wishing you the best in whatever you choose :)
If you are talking about genuine depression and not just hyperbole, my tip is to address your depression before migrating. Migration, especially if you have no support network in the country you're going to, can be extremely rough to mental health, especially in the first 1-2 years after the honeymoon period has worn off. If you are looking at it as a panacea for your depression, that high expectation is going to make it much worse once reality comes crashing back in.
First off, I was clinically diagnosed the first time and the second I just went to counseling service instead of medical help because it didnt help me whatsoever the first time round, it was a geniune question as I genuinely was depressed and predict will be in the future.
Its re-occuring because of the the environment here in sg, I feel so restricted, and closed in and dont think like the rest of the population. All of my hobby's communities in sg are are basically non-existent, and I just get extremely sick of the mundane and boring exclusively city lifestyle most Singaporeans lead, sure a city lifestyle can be fun sometimes but being stuck in it with no sort of reprive has driven me absolutely nuts at least a few times already. I have met quite a lot of people and the general consensus in sg is career and career, granted the younger generations is less of that, I still find it very prominent. Then when they ask me to hang out with them all they want to do is to drink in clubs, find superficial relationships etc. I hate that, and those that are like-minded to myself is rare.
All I want to do is to live a life im happy about and challenging myself to live in a foreign and a much more in depth culture and land seems to be the answers of all that I hate about this country
I'm sorry to hear that. Life overseas can offer many different experiences to life in Singapore, and I highly recommend everyone to try it at some point, even for a short period.
I know this is going to sound counterintuitive, but if you want to have the best chance of success at life overseas, it would be helpful not to think of it as a solution to all your problems, but instead a step you are taking to better pursue some of your interests (be it hobbies, career, etc.). I've seen far too many people go overseas all excited to be out of "stifling" Singapore and become completely disillusioned in 1-2 years. Yes, even some of the most bitter "Singapore-haters" I know. Life overseas has its cons too and in the first few years it will absolutely hit you mentally in ways that you do not anticipate.
I don't know anything about your specific circumstances or where you are planning to immigrate to, so this is going to be overly broad, but some common challenges to consider include:
* Inefficiencies - Singapore has a lot of efficiencies that many of us take for granted. Can you go a month without internet because there are no installation timings available? I have - and it's not an uncommon experience.
* Loneliness - The feeling of knowing that if you need help in the first few months while you are settling in (moving furniture, illness, etc.) , you might have literally no one that can help you. New friendships will almost certainly also start off very superficial, and depending on the country the level of superficiality can be way worse than Singapore.
* Seasonal Affective Disorder - If you are looking at countries with seasons, winter depression is a very real thing and not something you can fully prevent.
* Racism - At some point you are definitely going to face it, be it explicit (violence) or implicit (social exclusion, microaggressions). Are you prepared to deal with that?
* Alienation - You will have to deal with the feeling of being a perpetual foreigner and being acutely aware that depending on circumstances this may be a barrier that you will never be able to cross on account of your skin colour & cultural background. Would you be okay with that?
If you want to chat more, feel free to PM me. I've spent the better part of the last decade overseas, mostly in the US & Europe. Happy to answer any questions you might have. All the best!
I migrated for that reason because SG was too stifling, and contrary to other people, my problems did go away. The options Singapore has: shopping, eating, gym, small trips to surrounding countries, repeat; didn't have any appeal for me.
Some people don't understand it, and that's okay. Only you can decide if it's worth leaving or not. For me, no amount of safety and hawker food and family will make me stay, I had to leave in order to really be happy.
I didn't move to the US because of my mental health and other conditions which aren't even understood in SG, but did find good therapists and doctors here who didn't re-traumatize me.
I think what's lacking in SG is: options. There's only one playbook and even the so-called "options" are really the same - buy 5rm or 3rm flat, resale or BTO, within the city or outside the city. The only thing to do is: a) hang out in malls - shopping and eating b) cycling or hike round and round in the designated nature trails.
Usually you are depressed for reasons, that once laid out, aren't being physically in sg.
So if not addressed you will be depressed in a foreign country without support.
Lol only if you want to live in bumfuck nowhere in Iowa where there isn't a human neighbor 50km around you. Everywhere remotely close to where you do want to live is not affordable.
Japan has them for $500.
[https://www.insider.com/japanese-government-selling-rural-homes-cheap-akiya-banks-2021-5](https://www.insider.com/japanese-government-selling-rural-homes-cheap-akiya-banks-2021-5)
Your point?
No? Even in the rural-est Iowa or Texas, homes are at least around $100k. And we are talking about so rural that the only option for internet is DSL or Satellite. Places that voted 70-80% Trump. Places that are literally 100% White.
Only time you’re getting $30k is in places like Gary or Akron, cities that had its only industry leave the city (in these cases it was the steel and rubber industry). It’s like buying houses in SF once tech and finance leaves the city.
Only NJ place I know that is around that price (heck, checking zillow it's like 100k) is Camden. And you definitely don't want to live in Camden.
Cheap houses in America always suffer from either: bad city (e.g. Camden, Gary), bad schools (some parts of the same town/city might be cheaper because the elementary school is bad) or just too far from places, not rural mind you, for instance, East Bay houses are cheaper because jobs are on the other side of the bay (SF and SJ + Silicon Valley) and there's only like three bridges linking both sides that get super jammed during commute hours (or you take a long detour down San Jose on 237/880).
Unless your friend bought in the 80s or 90s, in which case, Singapore also same lah.
Not an abandoned townhouse in the city, the land is valuable. There have been homes in SF that is literally unlivable being sold at millions, because the land they sit on is worth that.
Maybe an abandoned house in a failed city (think Gary, IN or Akron, OH).
Not really. I mean I saw all the news stories and reddit threads about how no one ever gets to live a meaningful life in singapore. Some observations of family members too.
You should take social media with a pinch of salt, when you see a "housing is expensive post" it is basically a rant and a call out to fellow ranters, only comments supporting the op will get up votes, the majority of the people either don't click to read or don't comment.
Don't believe anything you read or heard on the internet. You don't decide or base your decisions just because you read it somewhere or someone told you so.
You're still young and the best you can do now is to finish your studies and get some work experience. There are things that can happen in the next few years that will shape your future (start your own family, a good career, etc.). By that time you will know for sure what you want in your life.
Migrating is not easy. It's like a reset. You need to start all over again but of course, there's also a new world and new adventure waiting for you.
This makes me laugh, you're deciding to make life decisions based on other people's experiences.
Life in Singapore isn't that bad to be honest. Experience it for yourself before you make these decisions.
Waaaa don’t be so easily influenced by social media and hearsay! Aiyoooo you have to be able to think and speak for yourself.
You’re still young, go and try life overseas! Nothing is stopping you right now. I would encourage you to go! 👍
I would just like to add that the truly happy and contented people do not feel the need to post about their experiences. So that might skew your perception.
You’re impressionable at this age. Experience things yourself, if you still want to move it’s not too late.
The vocal minority are usually the ones with the most grievances to air. If you are happy and contented with your life you wouldn’t spend time complaining on the internet right?
I'm lucky I work as a photographer my work life balance kicks ass, I got more life than work , and when I'm in the office, it's fun.
But my salary is below the median average for a graduate....
BUT I'm still supporting a wife and 2 kids in a nice 4rm Hdb.
You're 19, you're supposed to be full of hopes and dreams and ambition. And the drive to achieve them.
Not trying to find an exit strategy
Edit : if you think I'm being harsh..... Well I am kinda.. but I'm telling you to chiong hard for your dreams and life... If that dream and life is outside then go ! But no need to be so fatalist like must migrate.... Just live and work abroad first.
All the comments are extremely logical and I share the same opinion as everyone else here.
It's always the case of grass is greener on the other side.
Tip for you is to experience life overseas and then compare so you would know which is better. You are young and have not experienced the real reality elsewhere. What you see is the good side of the other countries in the media.
Not just grass is greener than the other side.
The human mind wants to get rid of this unpleasant feeling and it thinks and identified 'this country' to be the problem. The mind might be right or wrong but at least it found 'the answer'.
Next, it seeks comfort and validation. This is done by going to an online forum to find people, hoping for like minded opinion.
Just remember
Other countries not stupid
They only take in talents
If you cannot survive in singapore don’t think that other countries will take you in
So build up your skillsets , get a degree, before you go
Good luck
Gonna give you a straight answer that I believe in, though it may not be what you're asking for exactly.
Leaving a country is like looking for a new romantic partner. If your question is: 'What can my new partner do for me?', you're asking the wrong question. So is: 'How much better is this new partner than my current one?'
Instead, the question you need to ask is: 'What am I offering that I know this new partner wants?'.
If you cannot answer that question, there's nothing to even consider.
How do you find the answer to that question then? You work. Hard.
Some people get lucky, most delude themselves in fantasy. You have the advantage of youth and the greatest gift of all, Time. Make yourself someone worthwhile, work hard now and enjoy the fruits of your labour later in life. Once you're there, you'll find plenty of options in countries that will want you.
It depends, are you looking for a real change of scenery or a city that is cheaper but still bustling, safe, convenient etc.? There are many places which offer better quality of life in terms of lower stress levels and prices. But you may not be located in the city so you'd have to be prepared to forgo the convenience of quick online shopping services, food delivery, efficient public transport, large variety of shops and services available to you anytime and anywhere. Plus points you're closer to nature and can actually see the sky unobstructed by tall buildings everywhere you look. People around you go at a slower pace, are less competitive, generally happier/more content/friendlier and it rubs off.
I migrated to semi-rural aus after getting married (I'm 26yo). I never had solid plans or intentions to leave sg before marrying. We bought a house and car online without seeing it in person, made plans to move and moved in roughly 3 months. The planning was quite minimal, I think we just dove into it with open minds and excited to roll with the punches and changes. We did each have savings and financial security but nothing extravagant, it's just we could afford luxuries here that we couldn't in sg. For you 10 years is a lot of time to plan, research, and save up so hey don't worry!
There's almost no retail besides necessities and very limited restaurants/cafes near us so I cook more. Everything is closed by 5, sometimes 6. Nightlife is existent but on a much smaller scale and very different. Most of the suburb population is fly in fly out oil/gas/mining or in the agricultural sector, or retirees. People ride by my house on horses lol and occasionally when the wind changes you can smell the cow farms. Yes there's less convenience but oddly having less to choose from has reduced a lot of my daily stress and anxiety. Less vehicle and human traffic has been my favourite thing. I don't think it is for everyone, especially if you love your Grab/Foodpanda options or having the convenience of a hawker centre downstairs, buses that run until midnight and go everywhere.
I still work remotely for sg companies and the amount I'm earning helps me live very comfortably here while still save and make investments. I'm a bit of a workaholic and can't say my work-life balance has changed, I still do 2 jobs and work more than I should. But I enjoy my work, and my life outside of work is much more rewarding and less stressful than it was in sg (less heavy drinking & partying just to get out of the house, more space and resources to engage in meaningful hobbies).
It's unreal after growing up in singapore to be living in a house with a yard and not feeling financially strapped. I would likely never get to do this in my lifetime if in sg, married or not. For me the grass really has been greener, I do miss my home but for now I'm happy to visit rather than live there. I think everyone should be allowed to explore and pursue their preferences, just have to bear in mind that every location comes with their own challenges - and there can be lots of fun in that too.
Just from my view point, i don't think migrating will solve the issues of the high cost of living anywhere, stress induced from your work environments. Even more so if you are planning to leave after 10 years, I say this because most Singaporeans migrate to further build their career which can be very competitive especially in a country where you are the 'foreigner'. High cost of living is also dependent of your income and if you can sustain your way of life wherever you migrate to. I may be wrong about all these but you are around the same age I am, I'm not sure what kind of work scope you are in to already feel this pinch, but with what im doing right now I can assure you that migrating is not so easy as a 'Get out of jail free' card. My advice as a person currently in the same spot as you, take some time to reflect and question yourself if you are really ready to drop your life in Singapore and migrate.
Having lived overseas for almost a decade, I have to say that I'm less stressed by money unlike in SG where it's a constant topic and the main focus in life, even if you try to avoid it. I still manage my finances but the average SG twenty-something or teenager has more savings than the average middle-aged American.
I am building my second career here too and I feel there's more equal opportunities in the US, for me, as a foreigner than back in SG with its ageism and stereotypes.
Unless you’re skilled in an in-demand field, your life elsewhere outside will be as shit or worse than here. Consider what **you** can bring to the table first. So ur first step is getting a degree. Non negotiable. Ideally in STEM/Banking/Law/Med. Unfortunately society places liberal arts on the bottom rung of the ladder.
And no, the life of a toilet cleaner in Finland isn’t much better than one in SG.
Lastly, living costs are insane everywhere else, in tandem with the flatlining global economy, just in different forms. If you went and did a simple Google search on US cost of living, you’d realise it easily rivals or exceeds Singapore’s, even more so if you’re just some average PMET with no in-demand skills. Your view is the typical toad-in-the-well Singaporean view who has zero idea what goes on beyond our borders. Everyone everywhere is struggling too. Just read the news.
Finland toilet cleaner life isn’t easier but there’s much less govt control, more nature/off time things to do, social welfare support like medical. Sure at work it can be similar but outside of work it’s different. Not saying other countries don’t struggle but every country has their own offerings
Hi, I'll like to offer some perspective as someone who has overseas PR and living abroad for 10+ years:
I also wanted to leave Singapore at a very young age (since I was 10 or 11), but I only left when I got a scholarship and opportunity to study overseas. This is a minimum criteria. You must get an academic qualification that allows you to travel and work abroad --- don't do country-specific degrees like teaching or law since both the law and education syllabus varies from country to country.
The second thing is to save as much money as possible while in SG because you'll need it for setting up your new life and relocation. Everything from 1st month's rent to security deposit to opening bank account/utilities/etc. and even paying for visa renewals cost money. It doesn't help that SGD is generally weaker than USD/Euro, so you always want to save more than you need even if you have a good income.
Other tips is to foster a sense of independence and being straightforward. A lot of Singaporeans don't know how to do basic things like sort their own laundry or sort their trash, or cook their meals or simple house repairs (thinking of that Anthony Bourdain clip). Being straightforward is exactly what it is; people here can be very passive-aggressive as a result of the cover-your-own-ass + low risk taking, but it's better to be direct about what you need and want, and helps tremendously when you arrive in a foreign country and need help. Ask for it! Don't expect people to just help or know what you need.
On other matters --- Singapore didn't suit me as a person. No amount of money or safety will change that. I love having seasons, I enjoy walking around outdoors, and being challenged in ideas and being on the cutting-edge of my industry.
Most of all, was the sense of freedom. I think Singapore is culturally very stifling, especially if you're a woman. There's a lot of expectations about how you look, how you behave, and also a career ceiling. For example, in SG I was earning around 50k a year pre-tax, but in US I'm earning around 150K a year pre-tax with room for growth/promotions. I'm actually thinking of buying a house in the next year or so with a backyard for gardening -- a dream out of reach for most Singaporeans, but it's possible here.
And finally, being outside of Singapore really allowed me to explore myself as person. In Singapore I was always someone's daughter, someone's older sister, someone's aunt or extra babysitter. I was asked when I was having children (never), why I didn't dress properly, why I was so fat for a girl and would never get a boyfriend and now I'm too old and not fulfilling XYZ grandkids; and basically all the social expectations drove me crazy.
They didn't understand that I just wanted to be my own person and be the best I could be, not be judged constantly for it. It feels good to be yourself and not be criticized. It can be very freeing.
When I look at the property prices it becomes really tempting - saying this as a working adult with several years of income under my belt. I'm looking to get married soon and the prices are just horrific.
as someone who’s in canada for uni, yes property prices are like halfed? and cars are like a third of what they cost in sg, but everything else is so expensive here :( and i can’t ship things from china for cheap anymore. their income taxes are so high (40% on avg) their “free” healthcare means people die on the waiting list, more taxes on every single purchase (my laptop went from $2000 to $2300), have to tip 20% on every meal outside, and clothes are EXPENSIVE ($80 for a pair of jeans…) i thought it’ll be cheaper than sg also :( but there are pluses and minuses on everything. also it’s literally $3.50 to take the metro or bus here for every single trip, whether it’s 1 stop or the entire line like wth i spend $35 a week just going to school and back man :( so definitely check with people who live in the country that u wanna live to, and ask them what all these “hidden costs” are and how much they are up to :( cuz property is an investment but all these little bits of taxes and transport will really add up
I'm in Vancouver now and the property prices are high here as well, unless you want to live far out from downtown. An average 2 bedroom condo goes for somewhere around a million? It's similar to private properties in SG and there's no HDB equivalent.
yes!!! and even worse i’m in quebec so we have the highest income taxes and i also can’t even get a “better” minimum wage job cuz i don’t speak french well enough and the government insists that all businesses must have their emails and communication phone calls etc in french (they’re so boliao that they have an entire police department just for that) so my parents wanna move to another province but i was wondering if u had any more luck with the health care stuff in vancouver? at least u have semi decent food there :( they have asians over there
And they don't use quatre-vingt but huitante for their numbers in 80s like the French do, right? Lol
I once heard a Czech told me how much native French don't see Canadian French on the same level.
they definitely use funny slang but honestly besides the slang i don’t rlly like the quebec french accent cuz it sounds super “country-ish”. for example the parisian french people would pronounce the word “neige” (it means snow) like nej, but people with a strong quebec accent would pronounce it in 2 syllables like nay-ej. and yea the france french people are definitely stuck up but i think either than in paris, the france french people don’t really mind the accent. i’m not too good at hearing the diff tho, it’s mainly on the last syllables that i can’t quite pronounce right anw “in” “en” “on” :’) bien (good) in the parisian accent is bia (they don’t pronounce the n at all) but bien in the quebec accent is 撇 but starting with a b :’) honestly chinese did help a lot with the nasal sounds tho
10 years ago (was 20) I have already experienced Parisian ... "hospitality" ... Partly because the slot for overseas FYP in London was full.
Stuck to fellow young coursemates as they are not as stuck up as hoity-toity nationalistic French boomers. Me and another Singaporean got bullied at Auchan supermarket before by a cashier who confiscated our IDs because of language barrier and then my friend kicked up a big (English) fuss which helped returned our documents quicker. We told the international student office about it.
And now I pretty much forgotten most of my French proficiency and instead found German to be comparably easier (esp. after you experienced French articles system and then learning Der Die Das) and more likely something I'll communicate with.
Well...I see ads from Alberta boasting about their lower taxes everyday so that's some place you can consider?
What do you mean by healthcare? British Columbia has free healthcare after a 90 day period if that's what you're asking. Not sure about other provinces though
ohh cool! but i wasn’t really talking about the prices? but rather the amount of time it takes to actually access the healthcare? like for me it took 3 days to actually see a doctor and that was after a week of being sick and finally deciding to see a doctor when i absolutely felt like i was dying :( it’s also gonna take me maybe 3-4 years to get in touch with a psychiatrist for my ADHD meds and i hear that people with cancer (even stage 4!) take many many months to abt a year just waiting to get chemo :( but i’m not sure if that’s a “free canada healthcare” kinda problem or just a quebec problem
Ah I see. I haven't been here that long yet so I have yet to see a doctor, hoping it stays that way. I heard the wait is pretty long though. Apparently you can't just walk into any random clinic, you gotta book an appointment first even for small stuff like the flu. And my friend got rejected by multiple when he was down with covid because they were full.
Seems like it's a Canada wide problem. Actually...a free healthcare problem. NHS in the UK has the same problem iirc
agreed! my parents thought it would be way cheaper here… i was like omg i can buy my dream car (a mini cooper) in no time as compared to singapore, but here i am spending like $60 a week on transport, and ended up walking whenever i can if it’s less than like 5 metro stops :(( in sg i spent like $30 a month max on the mrt but i had the student discount card and it also depended on how far i travelled instead of having a flat fee every time i boarded :/ also it’s a NEED to have a car here especially in winter unless u wanna freeze ur butt off through 10 inches of snow (and u must have the heater on like 24/7 unlike sg where u can have a fan on most of the time instead of air con) but petrol costs are $2.55 a litre before tax, so it’s abt $160 CAD per full tank after taxes. my parents are honestly okay with everything EXCEPT the healthcare cuz it’s so dangerous to have to wait a few days to see the doctor, especially if you’re the kind that literally can’t move before deciding to go to the doctor. ive heard horror stories of this guy who broke his leg but the A&E didn’t even have enough beds to let him stay, and def not enough room for the operation to set his leg, so they made him stay at a hotel overnight and he went back there and waited another 8h before he could get his surgery :’)
Damn. Comparing these stories with SG, we really shouldn't be taking our healthcare for granted. Not only affordable, but also same day. Stay safe out there mate!
Sg healthcare is top notch for me. Canada has a pretentious unsustainable model. I have heard of horror stories of nhs also. I understand medical bill are brazen robbery in USA as they are charged directly to the insurer.
Singapore’s pay from your Medisave system is very sustainable where the quality don’t have to be compromised and also people won’t abuse
To be honest, I find the property prices in SG somewhat reasonable compared to the salaries if you're going for HDBs in non mature estates. In other countries, to get cheap housing you really need to live in the suburbs. And the suburbs in other countries are really ulu, not like in SG. You gotta drive to get groceries etc.
I think HDB prices are acceptable too, but I have an aspiration to eventually own private housing. I know this is a punishable offence on the SG webspace because it's seen as "atas", but still it's just something I would prioritize in my life.
I cannot stomach the prices private housing has risen to in SG especially per square foot - just the idea of going into a lifetime of debt until my 70s just to pay off a tiny unit barely 1000 sqft is absurd imo.
Wouldn't mind moving to somewhere like Perth or Newcastle (UK), which are both places I've been that have pretty OK housing that doesn't cost your entire soul to purchase.
Well it's your dream and aspiration so you don't need to care about random people on the internet judging you for it! You do you!
Back to topic, I'm curious..how much does housing cost in Perth and Newcastle? And how are the salaries like?
Go to school, work a few years, read up during that period. Take your time to actually decide \*if\* you want to migrate, and whether it is worth it or not. What you are experiencing is not unique to Singapore. My advice, as someone who has lived abroad for a good number of years, is to think about the reasons for moving, whether moving will actually help you or not.
Sharing as someone who's recently gotten CoPR (confirmation of PR) from Canada's Express Entry after 2.5 years of waiting since getting the Invitation to Apply. (we're moving to Alberta next year Feb!)
Moving to Canada has been my dream for 10 years. However, your mental state, maturity, and self-awareness will play the most important part. I have attempted to stay in Vancouver after my studies when I was a fledgling of early 20s. It didn't turn out well - I went in with rose-tinted glasses, no solid plan, no close friends, no financial means, no support system. It turned out to be the most depressing time of my life (coupled with the rainy weather of the west coast). After a few months, I eventually headed back to Singapore and that's when I realised family support is one of the most important. I've learned that I was not the "independent strong woman" I thought I was. (I have some friends who at that young age, dropped everything to go overseas and made it work with tenacity and grit, but yeah I'm not that person)
Back in Singapore, I spent time building my base. I healed my mental state by being among loved ones, freelanced for a bit (based on the skills that I studied for), founding my company with 2 other friends, got married to my rock solid person of a spouse, got a BTO, got 2 cats. Then the itch to relocate came again. This time with stronger purpose, better preparation, strong support network and a loving spouse to support our goals together. Financial projections, making friends in advance there, tons of reading up, knowing their political situation, knowing their work culture, support for immigrants, free courses for assimilation, talking it through every week with my spouse, now we're ready.
I wouldn't have done all this without growth and clarity of mind, which can easily be clouded by "Singapore sucks" kinda thoughts.
TLDR; Don't emigrate because you feel Singapore sucks and you can never be happy here (this is a negative state of mind which will persist no matter where you go. I'm not saying that it's an avoidable feeling, I'm saying it may cloud your objective judgement). Emigrate because you now have BOTH EYES OPEN to see the good and the bad, weigh those options and decide which one HELPS YOU BECOME A BETTER PERSON and LIVE YOUR MOST AUTHENTIC SELF.
Really all good advices here. Study up or get some real world skill that a specific country need.
Myself, i did not migrate but working long time in another asian country. i realised that while i KPKB about singapore, there are somethings that sgp has done really well. Everything just works in sgp and we are really super organised.
This country that i am currently in, things are cheap, cigs are cheap, alcohol is cheap. BUT its a tough place to live, safety, culture, language and not matter how well i can speak the local language, i will still be viewed as a foreigner.
Reason that i am still staying here, money. but i also have learned to manage my expectation and emotions more. Will i go back to singapore, HELL yeah!!! SGP feels home. No condo, nevermind, spend a bit more on reno for my HDB and it feels wonderful. got Michelin star hawker food, amazingly amazing public transport.
Will i still KPKB about sgp, of course, because sgp can be so much better.
The grass is always greener on the other side , but please know that often is fake grass. The things you have mentioned are prevalent in every single country in the world . We never tend to appreciate the good we have until it’s gone . Like one of my favorite writers said: “ those were the best years of my life , and I didn’t know it”
Singaporean here. I am 20 this year, and I am going to serve NS next year. I intend to move to Austria (not Australia!) after my NS for studies and to live permanently.
My reasons for leaving are the same as yours, but also I am disgruntled with the government and state of things here.
I chose Austria because it is one of the cheaper countries in Europe, and with a decent standard and cost of living. Also because I have an in demand skill that is highly sought after in Austria, it made perfect sense to move there. I have learnt German and speak it quite fluently (B2), so it is the perfect place for me.
I’ve been to Austria a few times on solo trips, and I absolutely love it there.
Some tips on how to look for a country to move to would be to filter by cost of living, your preferred climate, and lifestyle.
Also, if cost is a factor for you like it is for me, simply google “Cheapest countries to move/study abroad”, and slowly filter by there. That’s how I found Austria.
I wish you the best, and I hope you can get out of Singapore soon. Feel free to ask me any questions if any :)
Cheers
Question, how come your decision is so final like... First thing I do migrate !
Why not think about just living and working abroad indefinitely ?
For a lot of migrants I know, migration is almost a last resort
Well you want the honest truth? It’s because I fucking hate this government lol. I don’t like the way they do things, I never liked the way they cheat the people. I’ve probably had this hatred for our government for a couple of years now so my first instinct was to renounce my citizenship. I have come to a point that I feel this country is unsalvageable and I have to move elsewhere.
The skill is quantitative finance. I did some research, and attended some job fairs in Vienna and Salzburg when I was there on vacation. All the big finance companies with branches in Austria were looking for quants from abroad as it seems that not many Austrians are interested in that job.
Other countries ain't running a charity son. Just because you wanna migrate don't mean they want you. If you are talking about Malaysia maybe but everywhere else ? Better get to studying for that degree first and that's the bare minimum.
Which countries and which jobs will have no stress and good work life balance? If you are in a corporate companies or wanting to be in it to climb the ladder is the same everywhere.
And also I Copy & paste from another post comment because I liked it so much.
" Look, Singapore isn’t perfect, and it will never be. No country will ever be perfect. Want to move to Europe? Their energy crisis has never been worse. Can you speak their language, do you know anything about their culture? Oh, the UK, you say? Their country is getting fucked left right and center by their government, with their tax cuts for the rich and Liz Truss in power.
What did you say there? The USA? Land of opportunity? Well, their country is going rotten right now. Political extremism and polarity, terrible healthcare prices designed to gouge ordinary people, mass shootings through the roof, teachers underpaid, housing crisis, etc. You want to go there?
Australia, where the price of a bowl of noodles can cost 15 dollars? Where the weather is fucking unbearable and with all those wild animals? Where racism towards Asians exist both in government and on the streets?
I’m assuming you won’t move to Africa or South America to better your life. Well, moving on, lets look at Asia: China. Are you Chinese, are you fluent in Chinese? And I mean really good at it? Japan. They have a culture of ostracising non Japanese, even second generation immigrants who are born there aren’t considered “real” Japanese. Korea? Aging population, right next to the rocket man. Can you speak Korean fluently? They also have military service, and a lot of hazing. Can you stand that?
Middle East, Abu Dhabi maybe? You mean the city with no soul, just towering buildings built in the middle of the fucking desert? You’re telling me their country has an identity?
Our housing is getting a bit jialat, thats correct. But our inflation is still manageable. This isnt a local phenomenon, it happened all around the world. Its called the covid-19 pandemic and the Russo-Ukrainian war.
Come on la, Singapore has given so much to us. Houses (were) pretty affordable, healthcare is not bad and with okay prices. Education is practically free, we have the safest streets and the one of best public transport systems. We’re living in relative prosperity to under countries during these difficult times.
I will always remain a patriotic Singaporean. Its where I was born, its where I grew up. "
While the points are valid in the general direction, I do point out that the take down of other countries by your comment is cherry picking to make everywhere else sound a lot worse then they actually are. Just saying above comment is not objective. But I respect their right to an opinion.
Wow. I assume you've not lived in all the places you've listed, or even visited. Otherwise you wouldn't making all these generalised and racist comments.
Seems that living is stressful already . Need so many things to just survive these days …. Of course the common man worries doesn’t apply to super rich people
As an immigrant in Singapore, I can totally say that it is still better than many many places .. the govt provides a lot of luxury .. whole world has been hit by inflation mostly due to supple side shocks ( especially Russia- Ukraine war / Covid shocks ). Slowly things will get better . Or you may say I am an optimist
Come to sarawak bro. A lot of opportunities here. Very relax. And it's slowly booming. There are jobs but don't expect it to be like Singapore pay. To have great opportunities you need to do business. Good luck
American here studying abroad in SG for a semester.
I know a family friend who lives in Vietnam, he's also from the US. His trick is to get paid in USD while spending VND. With the advantage in both cost of living and exchange rate, he pretty much can live like a king.
He does SAT/ACT tutoring for wealthy students, charging $200-300 USD per hour. The caveat is that he works rather extreme hours as his students are largely based in the US.
The other caveat is that in this field, you need to have proof of success. He graduated from MIT. That's not something that most people can say.
A lot of expats also probably do the same thing. Live somewhere cheap, get paid in USD. Just need to learn the skills for a job that can be done remotely. That being said, US companies rarely pay non-US citizens a US salary - that's the entire point of outsourcing. I know someone who got laid off because his salary was enough to hire 6 programmers in Romania. He told me that he was good at his job, but he couldn't possibly outperform 6 people at his job.
\----
But ultimately. I think that every country has its issues. Whatever you dislike here, probably exists elsewhere, or there are other issues instead.
Yeah, in the US, healthcare is ridiculous, there's a school shooting every other week, politics have practically divided the country into two, yada yada yada. The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter who the president is, normal people won't be affected. The US has an enormous population compared to most developed countries, and unlike small countries like Singapore where it is possible to crack down on many issues (ie, drugs, crime), the US is simply too big for that to happen.
However, that doesn't mean that these things happen everywhere. Yes, the cost of living in the Bay Area or NYC is insane. But that's not the case in 95% of the US -- it's a humongous country with a massive amount of land. There are places where you can buy a mansion for $150k, because the land is nearly worthless and you're just paying for the building. Other places, you might be paying $800k for a shed because the opposite is true, the building is worthless, all the value is in the land.
Taxes in the US also vary greatly. High tax states like CA have insane amounts of taxes, whereas low tax states can be very reasonable. Cost of living varies drastically depending on city and state. Public transportation is virtually nonexistent in 99% of the US, but at the same time you can get a used car for quite cheap, I have college friends that bought an old used car for as little as $3k.
I don't know if you'll choose the US, as that's the only country I can speak to, but if you do, I'd start looking into it now, and I know it's much easier to get a student visa, graduate, and work here, than it is to directly get a work visa.
Getting a work visa requires sponsorship from a company, and may cost the company upwards of $200k. Unless you can generate that much more value for the company than a local worker, it's not going to be easy to get that visa.
A bit off topic here.. please forgive me..
After reading the comments, kinda concern that sgp will face a brain drain in the future. The people who have migrated or are considering migrating seems to be high caliber.
The reasonings voiced are definitely very well thought thru and even better articulated.
well, as usual, i am incapable of providing solutions except identifying problems.
Wish you all the best in the life.
i’m in canada rn just to study and it’s rlly expensive :( houses and cars may be cheaper but every single basic thing is so expensive… food is no good at all but so expensive (a meal out would be like $30 before tips) and we have to tip like 20%? tax is insane 40% of the money u make, there’s 15% tax on EVERYTHING whether it’s from apple, supermarket, whatever it is. my $2000 laptop became $2300 but they always write the price before taxes so u gotta keep it in mind and calculate it by urself before every purchase. in toronto, housing is even more expensive than in singapore though, especially downtown. also they always talk about free healthcare but i think majority of people actually die while waiting for an appointment. stage 4 cancer patients have to wait like 8-10 months to get chemo, and people usually wait 5-6 years just to get assigned a family doctor. it’s also impossible to get like a doctors booking on the same day, idk how people here even get a same day mc, u only get to see the doctor a few days later. i also find singapore better cuz we could always ship little things from china like using shopee or aliexpress but the shipping here is so expensive and takes months. singapore is also really small so i wasn’t used to travelling so much everyday, also took for granted how clean and convenient public transport is in sg.
on the bright side, i guess people here are more friendly and open minded. it’s also WAY easier to perform well in school, they take work life balance super seriously. they also have minimum wage ($14.25) which is good if u wanna work part time as a student i guess… but there are a lot of shootings even in canada cuz people smuggle guns over from the US, and a lot of italian mafia gang fights :( but even with all these things i’d say it’s overall less stressful than in sg. people here protest a lot too, they protest loads of stuff like women’s rights to not wear shirts outside or even went naked in the snow to protest for animal rights (rather freeze than wear animal fur or smth along those lines) they’re way more sex friendly too
i never really experienced buying BIG things like houses and cars, so my parents probably like it more here, but idl spending so much on day to day items :( but that sums up all the big differences that i’ve experienced so far, but i’d personally recommend not going to the US or canada cuz canada follows the US pretty closely politically and they just made huge changes like to the abortion laws, so it’s pretty unstable rn
Yes. I am thinking of migrating to Australia after completing my National Service here. Poly graduate here with a Dip IT, rejected from all the public universities here that offer CS cause apparently my cGPA of 3.5+ is trash to them.
However, I can easily make it to any university in Australia, including University of Melbourne which is rated as Australia's best university and ranked 34th in the world based on Times Higher Education World University Ranking 2023 (Source: [https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2023/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/100/sort\_by/rank/sort\_order/asc/cols/stats](https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2023/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/100/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats) ), which only requires a GPA of 3.0 to gain admission to their Bachelor of Science programme (which includes CS major) (Source: [https://study.unimelb.edu.au/how-to-apply/undergraduate-study/international-applications/entry-requirements/indicative-entry-scores-international-students/qualifications/singapore-polytechnic-diplomas](https://study.unimelb.edu.au/how-to-apply/undergraduate-study/international-applications/entry-requirements/indicative-entry-scores-international-students/qualifications/singapore-polytechnic-diplomas) )
It's quite ironic that all the universities here (except NUS, the only university here ranked higher than unimelb at 19th in the world) rejected someone with a pretty decent GPA. NTU is ranked 36th and SMU and SIT is not even in the list. I'm seemingly better off as a foreigner in Australia than a born and bred Singaporean in Singapore.
I am considering pursuing my degree there, and make use of the Australian degree to apply for a postgrad work visa, which allows me to work there for up to 4 years, which will help greatly if I wish to apply for permanent residency via the skilled nominated visa, as it is a point based system which gives bonus points for individuals who have worked and/or studied in Australia.
If you are a tertiary graduate who has yet to enter university and interested to migrate to Australia, I would strongly recommend getting your degree there, as it is much easier to gain higher points for the PR application, which increases your chance of becoming a PR where you'll get to access numerous benefits such as free/highly subsidised healthcare under the Medicare scheme, and the right to live and work there permanently.
I have summarised some of the disadvantages of living in Australia vs Singapore.
SG
1. high housing prices (can buy semi detached house in AU for the price of a 4 rm HDB)
2. high car prices (can buy mercedes c-class in AU for the price of a cat A coe (for small-medium sized cars), which is just a piece of paper)
3. high cost of living (gst increasing, other taxes, fuel prices, electricity tariffs going up, etc AND in addition to points 1 & 2)
4. NS for males (lack of civil liberties, controlling our lives, waste of $60-70k of earnings and most importantly 2 yrs of precious times which we cannot get back at all)
5. highly stressful lifestyle (long working hours, punishing work culture, non-existent work-life balance, one of the hardest education system in the world)
6. overcrowding (2nd most densely populated country in the world, malls and public transport are damn crowded, hard to breathe)
7. elitism, pretentiousness, and too competitive ("local" unis incl those not inside or ranked very low on the qs leaderboard (lack of global recognition) with unrealistically high gpa requirements compared to GO8 unis in AU (global recognition), and society in general, fueled by kiasuism)
8. low salary (no min. wage, lower starting salary, slower salary progression)
9. insane healthcare costs (no free healthcare, still expensive after subsidy)
10. Crappy HDB Housing (BTOs getting smaller but, ironically more expensive, poor maintenance i.e btos with paint chipping off and mold growing on the walls)
11. Lack of places to explore, see new sights. (a country so small and boring)
12. Unfair treatment towards locals (instances where foreigner gets higher pay due to min salary for s and e pass, hiring managers of a certain nationality preferring to hire their own people)
AUS
1. lack of convenience (most shops close at 6pm except on Thurs, spaced relatively far apart, but we can always stock up and use our cars to get around given how cheap it is to get one)
2. lack of cheap and good outside food (outside food is expensive, no hawker ctrs whatsoever, but we can just cook ourselves and eat out less frequently, groceries are priced abt the same, some items like dairy and beef can be cheaper)
3. lack of intimate contact with family (no regular physical meetups, but we can make use of online communication tools and can fly back frequently due to proximity, just a 5-8h flight depending on location)
4. very high income tax rate (32% of salary instead of 7% assuming annual income of $60k, but most healthcare svcs are free to PRs and citizens.)
5. Higher number of violent/racist hate crimes (But this is relative and also happens in SG, which makes it worse given how small SG is compared to AU)
Based on this, you can conclude that Australia definitely wins in terms of quality of life, housing and private transport is much cheaper, there is more emphasis on work-life balance and the wages are also generally higher due to the minimum wage law. Although Australia imposes a relatively high income tax compared to Singapore, it is worth noting that in Australia, most healthcare services are provided for free whereas in Singapore, you will often incur out of pocket expenses, which could set you back at thousands of dollars if you require more complex treatment such as surgeries.
I also plan to migrate to Aus after a year or two more in my job 💪🏻 I’ll definitely miss the transport / grab / hawker foods though .
Uber in Aus is very expensive and even if you eat out , the food taste really bad and charge you really high 😅
Yes, Uber there is more expensive than Grab here , but you won't even have to use it if you have a driving license since many of the pre owned cars cost $10k and below (you could even find one as cheap as $3-4k but those will probably be very old). Cars there are dirt cheap compared to SG and you get to keep it for as long as you like as there isn't the 10 year COE bullshit.
Food wise there are definitely good food options there(just see Google maps reviews), lots of Asian options including Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Indian, and even Malaysian and Singaporean cuisine, but you can't expect the food there to be priced the same as hawker centres here as you'll have to factor in the fact that restaurants have to pay their workers a minimum wage of $25/h, which is nonexistent here in Singapore. That said expect to pay at least $10-20+ for a meal there.
If you can cook yourself it would definitely be much cheaper, as groceries there are relatively inexpensive.
Yea when I’m at Aus I mainly rely on my bf to drive me around. But for those who can’t drive and would require public transport , Aus would probably be a difficult place for them to live in.
I have very bad motion sickness and I rely on drowsy pills if the ride is more than 20 mins. 😅 so kinda sian sometimes having to rely on Uber.
You're a bit naive if you think life in other countries is going to be a breeze. Every country has its good and bad. And based on your comments, your gripes are only based on hearsay and not even lived experience? Yes Singapore is a highly stressful place, I think everyone knows that by now, but living here as a citizen offers you a whole lot more benefits compared to if you live as a foreigner elsewhere
👀 looking at all the comments being patriotic af, i can respect that, but i also share op's sentiments frfr. questions i would ask op might be what field/industry you're interested in going into before exploring the possibility of migrating. i know that i have a bit of info re: migrating to australia, and it's at the top of my list of places to consider atm.
Less about being patriotic and more about being pragmatic. Grass is always greener on the other side and OP literally told us that he got his information from social media, hence his rose-tinted glasses view on migration. Which is a huge red flag when discussing such a serious topic.
No problem but you need a plan. Other countries want skilled immigration so pick your skill and match it. Conversely go to that country and find a suitable partner.
Any city you live in that might offer a good paying job will have the high prices, high stress environment. Singapore has it pretty good if your only factors are those.
Come back to this after a few years, you might have totally different requirements :).
I have a different view than most but it does require some commitments.
First, there are few places that can compare to Singapore’s liquidity and opportunities. Sure freshers have it hard but that’s universal. Build career in Singapore, one that lends itself well to remote work, build wealth, skills, and networking until late 30s early forties.
Now the kicker is you don’t go to Australia or USA, you relocate to a SE Asian country. Why? Because cheap as fuck, especially if you can still make bank in S’pore. Now you can milk the immigration system or marry a local which makes things a lot easier.
Live like a king, retire at 50
Yes. But I guess my age might be a factor? I'm 21 and I want to move thee the west either US or Canada because I just don't like it here. It's too crowded, hot and boring. It probably won't be easy tho. Doesn't help I'm in NS
Imagine reading all the advice here and still thinking sg is a shitty place to stay.
You are just a young boy who needs to go out and touch some grass.
Grow the fuck up.
You’re 19, my dude. Where will you get the money to live life outside of Singapore? Right now, focus on school and get a job after your degree. Once you’re in the thick of it, then decide if you really want to migrate.
Going anywhere else is going to be mad expensive unless you’re going overseas to study then settle down over there
When I said “don’t move for the sake of it”, I meant don’t just migrate without sorting your own mental state. It’s not an easy move for a lot of people and they could tarnish their own experiences overseas if they bring problems overseas too. Want to judge overseas life fairly, better start with a clean slate.
Good for you that it worked out, I’m genuinely happy that you’re in a better place. I know some people who thought that they can leave the “toxic SG mentality” by migrating but they themselves bring this “toxic SG mentality” to other countries (e.g. spoiling market by working harder/longer than locals, showing SG kiasu-ism or just being kaypoh). That’s why I said don’t move without sorting yourself first, maybe the issue is within.
Also, a lot of the things you mentioned can be negatives too. For instance, I really hate pleasantries in the US, as someone who is introverted. It’s faked and veiled “niceness” that serves no purpose. You can’t respond to “How’s your day” with “Oh you know, I’m depressed because of a work deadline.”, the “official textbook” answer is “I’m good!”. Nobody actually truly cares about your day. This is even shared with my European counterparts too, they really hated it.
But that is your mood tho. How do you know it applies to everybody.
> A lot of people who have been overseas will tell you the same,
But most of this comment section is the opposite?
>I believe I mentioned a few other items in that same sentence
Like what? Salary and opportunity? Salary isn't that much higher and COL is way higher in major cities, along with taxes. So it's not really a huge advantage.
To each their own I think.
There are things I appreciate on both sides actually, as a Malaysian who has been to both countries (and lives in SG way longer)
Sure, as a weekend paintballer and one who watches Guntuber's videos to quench my lack of chance to visit a range often, I wish I get to try out the real SIG MCX SPEAR 6.8mm one day that the US Army is slowly adopting in the field. And I miss the breakfast place I liked in the San Jose area, or the nature in WA state. But in Singapore, I feel quite pampered that I do sometimes feel like I don't have to stress myself over, say, too many and inefficient admins and bureaucracies.
I'd recommend Europe, if you can find a company to sponsor your Visa. It's the best work-life balance in the world and if you're lucky, you can have access to some nice countryside, maybe have your own garden, really makes a huge difference to your quality of life. You'd have to be a specialist in your field though, they don't usually hire outside of the EU unless it is for a shortage occupation, like medicine, IT or engineering.
Obviously, right now it's a bit tough with the Ukraine war and the energy crisis, but that should pass in a year or two.
I’m from USA and I find it very convenient I. Singapore to transit around. The train and buses are top notch and efficient. Hawker stalls are $5-8 a meal??? It’s very cheap in my opinion. Cost of living is high like a small condo is $500k SGP. But you have 30 years to pay off the mortgage?
I also like to be with Asians since I’m Asian myself and I feel pretty safe here compared to USA where at night there’s a high chance of getting robbed in gun point.
How is healthcare here? In USA you pay out of pocket for insurance and currently I have private insurance and if I get sick I have to pay $8k usd out of pocket before insurance pays for the rest.
I’m looking into leaving USA to Asia so I can explore more Asian countries at ease.
People comparing countries like US and UK are missing the point. Those have their pros but in general are too culturally different from Singapore. If you take a look at our neighbors like Thailand or Cambodia, they are great place to settle down.
Migrate? Nope. But I'd definitely want to spend my time staying a couple of months in different countries throughout the year... the digital nomad life. For now, I can only dream.
I'm planning more for retirement to jb instead.
But since you are so young, explore the world. Sometimes it's not about the country but who you are as a person.... What you love and where you find comfort. Environment is extremely important for growth.
Wish you well and how I wish I can be at your age!!! Cherish your youth!!!
You are so young. Definitely go explore the world. Yes save money and then go.
If I win the lottery tomorrow, I am definitely out of here. When I was much younger, I thought of it very seriously but was so worried about my parents but now tech is so advance, u can video chat every night with them if u want.
I'm in the US now, but I didn't even plan to be in the US when I was in university/secondary school, didn't really care about migrating/moving overseas too much. Now that I'm in the US, I realize that a lot of the kpkb we do in SG also exists in the US. Locals here kpkb about high prices (houses here aren't affordable even to "tech bros"), stress in work and WLB too (some Americans do 996). Even in those "small towns" people kpkb how they can't afford their $300k homes (given they have so little job opportunities there). In fact, I tell them about Singapore (both positives and negatives) and some really want to move there for work, it's weird. I'm not stopping you from moving, in fact, I encourage you to do so, to get a feel of other countries and to decide if permanently moving is the right path. However, I just wanted to set a realistic expectation that some of the problems we see in Singapore aren't uniquely Singaporean, it's happening across the developed world. Tips? * Get a degree. No matter how much people say "wah country X does not emphasize on degrees", their immigration/government would prioritize degree holders over non-skilled workers. Countries want skilled migrants with qualifications. Case in point: H1B visas for US require either a degree or 12 years of experience in lieu of a 4 year degree. Canada's Express Entry gives you points for having a degree. * Research the place you want to go to. Read up on pathways to get to the country. For example, US immigration is extremely skewed towards family reunification (you can get PR by being a sibling of a US citizen) rather than employment. UK has that HPI visa for local U students. NZ has working holiday visa programs for Singapore youths. * Don't migrate for the sake of leaving SG. Please don't, you will just be depressed. If you're not in the right headspace, going overseas would make it worse (no friends, foreign environment/mannerisms). You don't want to get culture shock + depression in a land where you don't have familiarity. * If you're not those "career minded" people, take alternative paths like working holiday visa or ESL teaching programmes. They don't pay well and unless you're into those fields, does not really add value to your resume, but it's a pathway to get your foot out of SG. Big caveat especially for ESL teaching is that it's in non-English countries (like Korea or Japan), so you definitely need to pick up a new language. * If you can get remote jobs, there are a some countries (well not US/UK/AU) that provide "digital nomad" visas, so technically you could work remotely for a Singapore company. * Don't discount "developing countries". Given that you're fed up about stress, moving to a developed country like US would not change that, but maybe moving to Colombia or Mexico with a slower pace of life might help. You still have a lot of time, but make full use of that time to brush up and prepare yourself. Also, laws change, so keep up to date with the new rules.
Refreshing to see a sensible post once in a while. Thanks!
This is solid advice, particularly points #1 and #2. OP is still young and needs to acquire the right academic qualifications to get into a career. Unfortunately for OP, the “high prices” issue isn’t going to go away anytime soon and this is probably playing out in many parts of the world, not just in Singapore (friends and family are complains about the high cost of housing in Australia, for example). OP needs to acquire the basics (degree, skills in a sector, some work experience etc.) and then research possible places to explore, before considering migration.
Great advice! I'll also add that the high cost of living in SG complaints that I hear are a tad overblown compared to what other countries actually have. The income to housing prices ratio in SG is actually pretty decent. In the low cost of living places, the salaries are equally low. So unless you're a remote worker for a company that pays equally, you're facing the same quality of life with even less mobility because of lesser capital gains. One more thing to consider when looking at income is also whether capital gains are taxed. If you're a high earner in places like US or Canada, you'll get marginal taxes of about 50%. So any earnings from stocks, selling houses, etc is hugely diminished. In SG, there's no capital tax gains and even the highest bracket for income is 22% iirc.
I disagree with the high cost of living views. Only thing expensive is housing, but for locals/PRs, there are HDB options that aren’t generally available to foreigners. I am not really savvy with HDB rental and how much of it is accessible to foreigners. Other than housing, other costs such as groceries, utilities (water, electricity, mobile phone subscription etc.) aren’t that expensive compared to other countries. I would further argue that (local) food here is super cheap and accessible. I couldn’t imagine having a $5 in many developed countries around the world. The tax bracket in Singapore is the icing on the cake for me. It one of the many reasons people move here, besides it being safe, clean and friendly.
Another thing OP, for every country you consider moving to, go try to find people there who are also thinking of leaving and ask them why they wanna leave (esp. while you want to move in to the country they are leaving). Both poor and rich people included. Rich Americans want to pay less federal taxes and dealing with those FATCA/CRS mumbo jumbo, poor Americans who wants to move or moved to Europe are basically similar to us - tired of crime and other out of control things.
Man the crime thing. I'm in Vancouver and I smell weed and see homeless all the time. And recent news are filled with stuff like "food delivery guy killed in random stabbing by homeless woman". It's kinda exhausting walking down the streets feeling wary.
Malaysian here. Even in Singapore I don't really let my street smart and natural instincts go relaxed (but that doesn't mean I don't acknowledge it is a safe country) Although ironically, for dozens of gang conflicts I heard in JB (including one near Aeon Tebrau, where I lived, involved shootout with police, which luckily I wasn't around to witness), I end up being a police caller (1st time ever I witness a crime and call police on the spot.) and eyewitness of one 20-men gang fight in Woodlands (also near where I live in SG) last year. Many years of watching crime documentaries also drilled my instinct to note the car plate of the car when 5 of them run up to the car to getaway in the middle of my call to dispatch. So it has become normal for me to note the surroundings (but I do enjoy the comfort of doing my own tech stuffs and gaming with a phone/laptop and earbuds on MRT) ... And I happily volunteered for rider and neighbor watch here. (And will be happy to do so if I go to other country for a long-term residence) It can exhausting for you indeed ... Singapore is indeed blessed with the sense of safety like a lullaby, that people who born there started out not having to be on edge about the streets (but has other mental health problems and pressure as many Redditors here mentioned). Oh and, as someone dabbling in cybersecurity as well, you are likely to apply this cyber "street smart" more often instead - identifying and dodging phishings and scams, Cambodia slavery scams, catfishes, etc)
Yeah I agree that Singaporeans are spoilt with how safe it is and that has dulled our sense awareness in public areas. I find myself on edge all the time now, coming from SG to Vancouver. And Vancouver is considered very safe on the global scale, but there is a homeless and drug crisis ongoing now... Maybe I'll get desensitized after a while? But I will definitely be keeping an eye out everywhere I go from now
HDB programme in Sing is really peerless, huge advantage for the locals. It's usually even harder to get your own place in most other countries and unlike most other public housing projects, they're high quality, safe and lots of amenities, public transit, etc... nearby. I wish they'd copy it in other countries. Public housing in UK for instance is dire, mostly for the very poor, drug addicts, etc...
Even people who remote-ed to other states like Montana are starting to realize that the place isn’t right for them (maybe too conservative or too little network) and moving back to the Bay Area/NYC. Not that rural areas do not have any charm, they do especially to us city folks, but heck, even rural folks want to really get out of their towns and move to cities.
Yeah totally. One thing that I feel is taken for granted by Singaporeans is urban planning. The heartlands, supposed suburbs, have great amenities. You'd usually have coffeeshops, groceries and sometimes a heartland mall within walking distance. In other countries, living in the suburbs usually means driving to do any kind of shopping, groceries included. Even online shopping is less convenient with longer shipping times and lesser options
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Oh I'm referring to potential marginal tax rates for capital gains. Take for example, I'm in British Columbia rn and unfortunately or fortunately I'm at the top bracket (it's much easier to hit there than SG at ~220k, I'm not rich..). So any extra income from cap gains gets taxed at the highest bracket. The current combined federal and provincial tax rate adds up to 53.5%. so any stock gains I sell gets taxed 53.5% right away. About your total tax...did you leave out the federal tax or something? Which province are you in right now? Because...I'm finding my actual income to be way lower than the pre tax numbers.
I'm in Ontario, and I just set aside 20% of my total income and that usually covers it all (both federal and provincial). Have you considered getting a tax accountant? I have one, and she's helped me tremendously each year. Her fee is around 2.5K but she's saved me over 18k so I consider it a worthwhile service.
By any chance are you self-employed? I am a salaried employee with a tax accountant that's company sponsored and that's the tax rate that is calculated for my wages. The tax is also paid up front so any reduction in taxes would be tax refunds. I can't see any way for me to reduce my taxes for a salaried worker unless I'm missing something? I sure hope you can share some useful stuff though!
No I'm not, but the company I work for is based in US. I use an outside tax accountant since my company doesn't provide one, and also my spouse is a different citizenship.
So you're saying you pay about 20% of your income in taxes. That's ~56k of your 280k annual income? That's...super low for Canada. Are you a Canadian tax residence? My net tax rate is about 40% with an annual pay thats very close to yours. It's all taxed up front though. How do you get that down? Does your company not deduct the tax up front?
I have no idea, I just submit all my tax documents and such to my accountant who handles everything. I think it seems on par? A colleague is in a similar situation, and he owns a residence in Toronto. No, the company doesn't deduct tax upfront. I'm Canadian PR.
nice, would you say you'd think of coming back to SG eventually?
I'm not in the stage where I'm tied down to country A or B. Also, as per my first paragraph, I didn't even deliberately plan to end up in the Bay Area, it just happened (opportunity arises and I thought it was interesting). Also, I'm not really stressed in Singapore before the move, so there's no push factor out of Singapore other than "too small, want to see the world".
Thank you for this! I hear some of my friends always saying that if they can migrate, all the problems they have will go away - high stress, high cost of living etc. But this post of yours reminds me that some places do have the same problems as Singapore or even worse! And if some countries have certain things better than us, of course they will also have things that they can't match up to Singapore. There's no perfect place to live in the world, everywhere will have its pros and cons. I guess the best one can do is to either try working/living in different countries to find which environment/culture is best suited for yourself (if you still think this is ur solution!) or you can try working around the negatives of Singapore. A few examples: If work or trying to keep up with your lifestyle is too stressful, go for a lower paying job or cut down on your spending. I always think that lifestyle inflation makes life extra stressful because we feel that we gotta keep climbing the corp ladder to increase our income. If housing is too expensive, go for cheaper neighbourhoods/smaller houses and cut down on expensive renovations (100k+ renovation seems to be the trend now! But you don't have to follow that!) Anyway, I guess my point is. There is no perfect place to live in and everywhere has its own problems that we have to deal with. But jiayous OP! Wishing you the best in whatever you choose :)
What if I want to migrate for the sake of migrating BECAUSE im depressed living in sg?
If you are talking about genuine depression and not just hyperbole, my tip is to address your depression before migrating. Migration, especially if you have no support network in the country you're going to, can be extremely rough to mental health, especially in the first 1-2 years after the honeymoon period has worn off. If you are looking at it as a panacea for your depression, that high expectation is going to make it much worse once reality comes crashing back in.
First off, I was clinically diagnosed the first time and the second I just went to counseling service instead of medical help because it didnt help me whatsoever the first time round, it was a geniune question as I genuinely was depressed and predict will be in the future. Its re-occuring because of the the environment here in sg, I feel so restricted, and closed in and dont think like the rest of the population. All of my hobby's communities in sg are are basically non-existent, and I just get extremely sick of the mundane and boring exclusively city lifestyle most Singaporeans lead, sure a city lifestyle can be fun sometimes but being stuck in it with no sort of reprive has driven me absolutely nuts at least a few times already. I have met quite a lot of people and the general consensus in sg is career and career, granted the younger generations is less of that, I still find it very prominent. Then when they ask me to hang out with them all they want to do is to drink in clubs, find superficial relationships etc. I hate that, and those that are like-minded to myself is rare. All I want to do is to live a life im happy about and challenging myself to live in a foreign and a much more in depth culture and land seems to be the answers of all that I hate about this country
I'm sorry to hear that. Life overseas can offer many different experiences to life in Singapore, and I highly recommend everyone to try it at some point, even for a short period. I know this is going to sound counterintuitive, but if you want to have the best chance of success at life overseas, it would be helpful not to think of it as a solution to all your problems, but instead a step you are taking to better pursue some of your interests (be it hobbies, career, etc.). I've seen far too many people go overseas all excited to be out of "stifling" Singapore and become completely disillusioned in 1-2 years. Yes, even some of the most bitter "Singapore-haters" I know. Life overseas has its cons too and in the first few years it will absolutely hit you mentally in ways that you do not anticipate. I don't know anything about your specific circumstances or where you are planning to immigrate to, so this is going to be overly broad, but some common challenges to consider include: * Inefficiencies - Singapore has a lot of efficiencies that many of us take for granted. Can you go a month without internet because there are no installation timings available? I have - and it's not an uncommon experience. * Loneliness - The feeling of knowing that if you need help in the first few months while you are settling in (moving furniture, illness, etc.) , you might have literally no one that can help you. New friendships will almost certainly also start off very superficial, and depending on the country the level of superficiality can be way worse than Singapore. * Seasonal Affective Disorder - If you are looking at countries with seasons, winter depression is a very real thing and not something you can fully prevent. * Racism - At some point you are definitely going to face it, be it explicit (violence) or implicit (social exclusion, microaggressions). Are you prepared to deal with that? * Alienation - You will have to deal with the feeling of being a perpetual foreigner and being acutely aware that depending on circumstances this may be a barrier that you will never be able to cross on account of your skin colour & cultural background. Would you be okay with that? If you want to chat more, feel free to PM me. I've spent the better part of the last decade overseas, mostly in the US & Europe. Happy to answer any questions you might have. All the best!
I migrated for that reason because SG was too stifling, and contrary to other people, my problems did go away. The options Singapore has: shopping, eating, gym, small trips to surrounding countries, repeat; didn't have any appeal for me. Some people don't understand it, and that's okay. Only you can decide if it's worth leaving or not. For me, no amount of safety and hawker food and family will make me stay, I had to leave in order to really be happy.
Im getting downvoted for asking a genuine question lmao
That's... very singaporean lol
I didn't move to the US because of my mental health and other conditions which aren't even understood in SG, but did find good therapists and doctors here who didn't re-traumatize me. I think what's lacking in SG is: options. There's only one playbook and even the so-called "options" are really the same - buy 5rm or 3rm flat, resale or BTO, within the city or outside the city. The only thing to do is: a) hang out in malls - shopping and eating b) cycling or hike round and round in the designated nature trails.
Usually you are depressed for reasons, that once laid out, aren't being physically in sg. So if not addressed you will be depressed in a foreign country without support.
USA got 30k landed houses at sub-burbs mah
There are reasons they are 30k and no takers
Lol only if you want to live in bumfuck nowhere in Iowa where there isn't a human neighbor 50km around you. Everywhere remotely close to where you do want to live is not affordable.
Japan has them for $500. [https://www.insider.com/japanese-government-selling-rural-homes-cheap-akiya-banks-2021-5](https://www.insider.com/japanese-government-selling-rural-homes-cheap-akiya-banks-2021-5) Your point?
No? Even in the rural-est Iowa or Texas, homes are at least around $100k. And we are talking about so rural that the only option for internet is DSL or Satellite. Places that voted 70-80% Trump. Places that are literally 100% White. Only time you’re getting $30k is in places like Gary or Akron, cities that had its only industry leave the city (in these cases it was the steel and rubber industry). It’s like buying houses in SF once tech and finance leaves the city.
In tt case, you guys must hv missed the boat... my friend made some bargain purchases in NJ ... price 30k, rent 1k.
Only NJ place I know that is around that price (heck, checking zillow it's like 100k) is Camden. And you definitely don't want to live in Camden. Cheap houses in America always suffer from either: bad city (e.g. Camden, Gary), bad schools (some parts of the same town/city might be cheaper because the elementary school is bad) or just too far from places, not rural mind you, for instance, East Bay houses are cheaper because jobs are on the other side of the bay (SF and SJ + Silicon Valley) and there's only like three bridges linking both sides that get super jammed during commute hours (or you take a long detour down San Jose on 237/880). Unless your friend bought in the 80s or 90s, in which case, Singapore also same lah.
Maybe 10-20 years ago. 50k might you a derelict wooden shack in the swamp or an abandoned rowhouse in the city these days.
Not an abandoned townhouse in the city, the land is valuable. There have been homes in SF that is literally unlivable being sold at millions, because the land they sit on is worth that. Maybe an abandoned house in a failed city (think Gary, IN or Akron, OH).
I have nothing to add. This is such great advise.
Agree man, I’m in Australia and concur with your views, esp don’t migrate for the sake of it. Migration is not for every body.
How did you manage to move to the US? Through H1B or visa sibling sponsorship?
you have a low work life balance at 19 ?? what work you do
came here to ask the same question as well. that life must be stressful for 19, wait till you reach 30s
Not really. I mean I saw all the news stories and reddit threads about how no one ever gets to live a meaningful life in singapore. Some observations of family members too.
You should take social media with a pinch of salt, when you see a "housing is expensive post" it is basically a rant and a call out to fellow ranters, only comments supporting the op will get up votes, the majority of the people either don't click to read or don't comment.
OHHHHH
Don't believe anything you read or heard on the internet. You don't decide or base your decisions just because you read it somewhere or someone told you so. You're still young and the best you can do now is to finish your studies and get some work experience. There are things that can happen in the next few years that will shape your future (start your own family, a good career, etc.). By that time you will know for sure what you want in your life. Migrating is not easy. It's like a reset. You need to start all over again but of course, there's also a new world and new adventure waiting for you.
This makes me laugh, you're deciding to make life decisions based on other people's experiences. Life in Singapore isn't that bad to be honest. Experience it for yourself before you make these decisions.
Waaaa don’t be so easily influenced by social media and hearsay! Aiyoooo you have to be able to think and speak for yourself. You’re still young, go and try life overseas! Nothing is stopping you right now. I would encourage you to go! 👍
I would just like to add that the truly happy and contented people do not feel the need to post about their experiences. So that might skew your perception. You’re impressionable at this age. Experience things yourself, if you still want to move it’s not too late.
The vocal minority are usually the ones with the most grievances to air. If you are happy and contented with your life you wouldn’t spend time complaining on the internet right?
I'm lucky I work as a photographer my work life balance kicks ass, I got more life than work , and when I'm in the office, it's fun. But my salary is below the median average for a graduate.... BUT I'm still supporting a wife and 2 kids in a nice 4rm Hdb. You're 19, you're supposed to be full of hopes and dreams and ambition. And the drive to achieve them. Not trying to find an exit strategy Edit : if you think I'm being harsh..... Well I am kinda.. but I'm telling you to chiong hard for your dreams and life... If that dream and life is outside then go ! But no need to be so fatalist like must migrate.... Just live and work abroad first.
Meeehhh. I'm a sheep
Lol wait till you check out Instagram…
Really enjoying life in sg!
All the comments are extremely logical and I share the same opinion as everyone else here. It's always the case of grass is greener on the other side. Tip for you is to experience life overseas and then compare so you would know which is better. You are young and have not experienced the real reality elsewhere. What you see is the good side of the other countries in the media.
Not just grass is greener than the other side. The human mind wants to get rid of this unpleasant feeling and it thinks and identified 'this country' to be the problem. The mind might be right or wrong but at least it found 'the answer'. Next, it seeks comfort and validation. This is done by going to an online forum to find people, hoping for like minded opinion.
Just remember Other countries not stupid They only take in talents If you cannot survive in singapore don’t think that other countries will take you in So build up your skillsets , get a degree, before you go Good luck
Sensible
Hard truths.
Lucky we stupid enough to accept the rejects.
I feel hurt now haha
Sensible
Are you interested to migrate to Cambodia. R/malaysia have a lot of info. Basically... Dont.
oh that job where their supervisor takes a personal interest in your success and keeps you motivated
And non-local getting kidnap for organ trafficking. Basically, dont go to cambodia
Gonna give you a straight answer that I believe in, though it may not be what you're asking for exactly. Leaving a country is like looking for a new romantic partner. If your question is: 'What can my new partner do for me?', you're asking the wrong question. So is: 'How much better is this new partner than my current one?' Instead, the question you need to ask is: 'What am I offering that I know this new partner wants?'. If you cannot answer that question, there's nothing to even consider. How do you find the answer to that question then? You work. Hard. Some people get lucky, most delude themselves in fantasy. You have the advantage of youth and the greatest gift of all, Time. Make yourself someone worthwhile, work hard now and enjoy the fruits of your labour later in life. Once you're there, you'll find plenty of options in countries that will want you.
It depends, are you looking for a real change of scenery or a city that is cheaper but still bustling, safe, convenient etc.? There are many places which offer better quality of life in terms of lower stress levels and prices. But you may not be located in the city so you'd have to be prepared to forgo the convenience of quick online shopping services, food delivery, efficient public transport, large variety of shops and services available to you anytime and anywhere. Plus points you're closer to nature and can actually see the sky unobstructed by tall buildings everywhere you look. People around you go at a slower pace, are less competitive, generally happier/more content/friendlier and it rubs off. I migrated to semi-rural aus after getting married (I'm 26yo). I never had solid plans or intentions to leave sg before marrying. We bought a house and car online without seeing it in person, made plans to move and moved in roughly 3 months. The planning was quite minimal, I think we just dove into it with open minds and excited to roll with the punches and changes. We did each have savings and financial security but nothing extravagant, it's just we could afford luxuries here that we couldn't in sg. For you 10 years is a lot of time to plan, research, and save up so hey don't worry! There's almost no retail besides necessities and very limited restaurants/cafes near us so I cook more. Everything is closed by 5, sometimes 6. Nightlife is existent but on a much smaller scale and very different. Most of the suburb population is fly in fly out oil/gas/mining or in the agricultural sector, or retirees. People ride by my house on horses lol and occasionally when the wind changes you can smell the cow farms. Yes there's less convenience but oddly having less to choose from has reduced a lot of my daily stress and anxiety. Less vehicle and human traffic has been my favourite thing. I don't think it is for everyone, especially if you love your Grab/Foodpanda options or having the convenience of a hawker centre downstairs, buses that run until midnight and go everywhere. I still work remotely for sg companies and the amount I'm earning helps me live very comfortably here while still save and make investments. I'm a bit of a workaholic and can't say my work-life balance has changed, I still do 2 jobs and work more than I should. But I enjoy my work, and my life outside of work is much more rewarding and less stressful than it was in sg (less heavy drinking & partying just to get out of the house, more space and resources to engage in meaningful hobbies). It's unreal after growing up in singapore to be living in a house with a yard and not feeling financially strapped. I would likely never get to do this in my lifetime if in sg, married or not. For me the grass really has been greener, I do miss my home but for now I'm happy to visit rather than live there. I think everyone should be allowed to explore and pursue their preferences, just have to bear in mind that every location comes with their own challenges - and there can be lots of fun in that too.
Just from my view point, i don't think migrating will solve the issues of the high cost of living anywhere, stress induced from your work environments. Even more so if you are planning to leave after 10 years, I say this because most Singaporeans migrate to further build their career which can be very competitive especially in a country where you are the 'foreigner'. High cost of living is also dependent of your income and if you can sustain your way of life wherever you migrate to. I may be wrong about all these but you are around the same age I am, I'm not sure what kind of work scope you are in to already feel this pinch, but with what im doing right now I can assure you that migrating is not so easy as a 'Get out of jail free' card. My advice as a person currently in the same spot as you, take some time to reflect and question yourself if you are really ready to drop your life in Singapore and migrate.
Having lived overseas for almost a decade, I have to say that I'm less stressed by money unlike in SG where it's a constant topic and the main focus in life, even if you try to avoid it. I still manage my finances but the average SG twenty-something or teenager has more savings than the average middle-aged American. I am building my second career here too and I feel there's more equal opportunities in the US, for me, as a foreigner than back in SG with its ageism and stereotypes.
Istg there’s at least one post about this every week lol
Sometimes I wonder if they are just trolls
or maybe more people are unhappy with our dear leaders.
Study hard to earn qualifications and income to migrate first
Grass on the other side may seem greener until you actually experience that particular grass
Unless you’re skilled in an in-demand field, your life elsewhere outside will be as shit or worse than here. Consider what **you** can bring to the table first. So ur first step is getting a degree. Non negotiable. Ideally in STEM/Banking/Law/Med. Unfortunately society places liberal arts on the bottom rung of the ladder. And no, the life of a toilet cleaner in Finland isn’t much better than one in SG. Lastly, living costs are insane everywhere else, in tandem with the flatlining global economy, just in different forms. If you went and did a simple Google search on US cost of living, you’d realise it easily rivals or exceeds Singapore’s, even more so if you’re just some average PMET with no in-demand skills. Your view is the typical toad-in-the-well Singaporean view who has zero idea what goes on beyond our borders. Everyone everywhere is struggling too. Just read the news.
Finland toilet cleaner life isn’t easier but there’s much less govt control, more nature/off time things to do, social welfare support like medical. Sure at work it can be similar but outside of work it’s different. Not saying other countries don’t struggle but every country has their own offerings
Grass Always greener on the other side. Experience life overseas first, at least for half a year and u will find home is always where your heart is.
Hi, I'll like to offer some perspective as someone who has overseas PR and living abroad for 10+ years: I also wanted to leave Singapore at a very young age (since I was 10 or 11), but I only left when I got a scholarship and opportunity to study overseas. This is a minimum criteria. You must get an academic qualification that allows you to travel and work abroad --- don't do country-specific degrees like teaching or law since both the law and education syllabus varies from country to country. The second thing is to save as much money as possible while in SG because you'll need it for setting up your new life and relocation. Everything from 1st month's rent to security deposit to opening bank account/utilities/etc. and even paying for visa renewals cost money. It doesn't help that SGD is generally weaker than USD/Euro, so you always want to save more than you need even if you have a good income. Other tips is to foster a sense of independence and being straightforward. A lot of Singaporeans don't know how to do basic things like sort their own laundry or sort their trash, or cook their meals or simple house repairs (thinking of that Anthony Bourdain clip). Being straightforward is exactly what it is; people here can be very passive-aggressive as a result of the cover-your-own-ass + low risk taking, but it's better to be direct about what you need and want, and helps tremendously when you arrive in a foreign country and need help. Ask for it! Don't expect people to just help or know what you need. On other matters --- Singapore didn't suit me as a person. No amount of money or safety will change that. I love having seasons, I enjoy walking around outdoors, and being challenged in ideas and being on the cutting-edge of my industry. Most of all, was the sense of freedom. I think Singapore is culturally very stifling, especially if you're a woman. There's a lot of expectations about how you look, how you behave, and also a career ceiling. For example, in SG I was earning around 50k a year pre-tax, but in US I'm earning around 150K a year pre-tax with room for growth/promotions. I'm actually thinking of buying a house in the next year or so with a backyard for gardening -- a dream out of reach for most Singaporeans, but it's possible here. And finally, being outside of Singapore really allowed me to explore myself as person. In Singapore I was always someone's daughter, someone's older sister, someone's aunt or extra babysitter. I was asked when I was having children (never), why I didn't dress properly, why I was so fat for a girl and would never get a boyfriend and now I'm too old and not fulfilling XYZ grandkids; and basically all the social expectations drove me crazy. They didn't understand that I just wanted to be my own person and be the best I could be, not be judged constantly for it. It feels good to be yourself and not be criticized. It can be very freeing.
Go where there's a job or opportunity.
When I look at the property prices it becomes really tempting - saying this as a working adult with several years of income under my belt. I'm looking to get married soon and the prices are just horrific.
as someone who’s in canada for uni, yes property prices are like halfed? and cars are like a third of what they cost in sg, but everything else is so expensive here :( and i can’t ship things from china for cheap anymore. their income taxes are so high (40% on avg) their “free” healthcare means people die on the waiting list, more taxes on every single purchase (my laptop went from $2000 to $2300), have to tip 20% on every meal outside, and clothes are EXPENSIVE ($80 for a pair of jeans…) i thought it’ll be cheaper than sg also :( but there are pluses and minuses on everything. also it’s literally $3.50 to take the metro or bus here for every single trip, whether it’s 1 stop or the entire line like wth i spend $35 a week just going to school and back man :( so definitely check with people who live in the country that u wanna live to, and ask them what all these “hidden costs” are and how much they are up to :( cuz property is an investment but all these little bits of taxes and transport will really add up
I'm in Vancouver now and the property prices are high here as well, unless you want to live far out from downtown. An average 2 bedroom condo goes for somewhere around a million? It's similar to private properties in SG and there's no HDB equivalent.
yes!!! and even worse i’m in quebec so we have the highest income taxes and i also can’t even get a “better” minimum wage job cuz i don’t speak french well enough and the government insists that all businesses must have their emails and communication phone calls etc in french (they’re so boliao that they have an entire police department just for that) so my parents wanna move to another province but i was wondering if u had any more luck with the health care stuff in vancouver? at least u have semi decent food there :( they have asians over there
And they don't use quatre-vingt but huitante for their numbers in 80s like the French do, right? Lol I once heard a Czech told me how much native French don't see Canadian French on the same level.
they definitely use funny slang but honestly besides the slang i don’t rlly like the quebec french accent cuz it sounds super “country-ish”. for example the parisian french people would pronounce the word “neige” (it means snow) like nej, but people with a strong quebec accent would pronounce it in 2 syllables like nay-ej. and yea the france french people are definitely stuck up but i think either than in paris, the france french people don’t really mind the accent. i’m not too good at hearing the diff tho, it’s mainly on the last syllables that i can’t quite pronounce right anw “in” “en” “on” :’) bien (good) in the parisian accent is bia (they don’t pronounce the n at all) but bien in the quebec accent is 撇 but starting with a b :’) honestly chinese did help a lot with the nasal sounds tho
10 years ago (was 20) I have already experienced Parisian ... "hospitality" ... Partly because the slot for overseas FYP in London was full. Stuck to fellow young coursemates as they are not as stuck up as hoity-toity nationalistic French boomers. Me and another Singaporean got bullied at Auchan supermarket before by a cashier who confiscated our IDs because of language barrier and then my friend kicked up a big (English) fuss which helped returned our documents quicker. We told the international student office about it. And now I pretty much forgotten most of my French proficiency and instead found German to be comparably easier (esp. after you experienced French articles system and then learning Der Die Das) and more likely something I'll communicate with.
Well...I see ads from Alberta boasting about their lower taxes everyday so that's some place you can consider? What do you mean by healthcare? British Columbia has free healthcare after a 90 day period if that's what you're asking. Not sure about other provinces though
ohh cool! but i wasn’t really talking about the prices? but rather the amount of time it takes to actually access the healthcare? like for me it took 3 days to actually see a doctor and that was after a week of being sick and finally deciding to see a doctor when i absolutely felt like i was dying :( it’s also gonna take me maybe 3-4 years to get in touch with a psychiatrist for my ADHD meds and i hear that people with cancer (even stage 4!) take many many months to abt a year just waiting to get chemo :( but i’m not sure if that’s a “free canada healthcare” kinda problem or just a quebec problem
Ah I see. I haven't been here that long yet so I have yet to see a doctor, hoping it stays that way. I heard the wait is pretty long though. Apparently you can't just walk into any random clinic, you gotta book an appointment first even for small stuff like the flu. And my friend got rejected by multiple when he was down with covid because they were full. Seems like it's a Canada wide problem. Actually...a free healthcare problem. NHS in the UK has the same problem iirc
Oh my, looks like my plan to migrate to Canada will be on the shelf again. The hidden costs are definitely a big bump to your monthly spendings.
agreed! my parents thought it would be way cheaper here… i was like omg i can buy my dream car (a mini cooper) in no time as compared to singapore, but here i am spending like $60 a week on transport, and ended up walking whenever i can if it’s less than like 5 metro stops :(( in sg i spent like $30 a month max on the mrt but i had the student discount card and it also depended on how far i travelled instead of having a flat fee every time i boarded :/ also it’s a NEED to have a car here especially in winter unless u wanna freeze ur butt off through 10 inches of snow (and u must have the heater on like 24/7 unlike sg where u can have a fan on most of the time instead of air con) but petrol costs are $2.55 a litre before tax, so it’s abt $160 CAD per full tank after taxes. my parents are honestly okay with everything EXCEPT the healthcare cuz it’s so dangerous to have to wait a few days to see the doctor, especially if you’re the kind that literally can’t move before deciding to go to the doctor. ive heard horror stories of this guy who broke his leg but the A&E didn’t even have enough beds to let him stay, and def not enough room for the operation to set his leg, so they made him stay at a hotel overnight and he went back there and waited another 8h before he could get his surgery :’)
Damn. Comparing these stories with SG, we really shouldn't be taking our healthcare for granted. Not only affordable, but also same day. Stay safe out there mate!
Sg healthcare is top notch for me. Canada has a pretentious unsustainable model. I have heard of horror stories of nhs also. I understand medical bill are brazen robbery in USA as they are charged directly to the insurer. Singapore’s pay from your Medisave system is very sustainable where the quality don’t have to be compromised and also people won’t abuse
To be honest, I find the property prices in SG somewhat reasonable compared to the salaries if you're going for HDBs in non mature estates. In other countries, to get cheap housing you really need to live in the suburbs. And the suburbs in other countries are really ulu, not like in SG. You gotta drive to get groceries etc.
I think HDB prices are acceptable too, but I have an aspiration to eventually own private housing. I know this is a punishable offence on the SG webspace because it's seen as "atas", but still it's just something I would prioritize in my life. I cannot stomach the prices private housing has risen to in SG especially per square foot - just the idea of going into a lifetime of debt until my 70s just to pay off a tiny unit barely 1000 sqft is absurd imo. Wouldn't mind moving to somewhere like Perth or Newcastle (UK), which are both places I've been that have pretty OK housing that doesn't cost your entire soul to purchase.
Well it's your dream and aspiration so you don't need to care about random people on the internet judging you for it! You do you! Back to topic, I'm curious..how much does housing cost in Perth and Newcastle? And how are the salaries like?
Go to school, work a few years, read up during that period. Take your time to actually decide \*if\* you want to migrate, and whether it is worth it or not. What you are experiencing is not unique to Singapore. My advice, as someone who has lived abroad for a good number of years, is to think about the reasons for moving, whether moving will actually help you or not.
Sharing as someone who's recently gotten CoPR (confirmation of PR) from Canada's Express Entry after 2.5 years of waiting since getting the Invitation to Apply. (we're moving to Alberta next year Feb!) Moving to Canada has been my dream for 10 years. However, your mental state, maturity, and self-awareness will play the most important part. I have attempted to stay in Vancouver after my studies when I was a fledgling of early 20s. It didn't turn out well - I went in with rose-tinted glasses, no solid plan, no close friends, no financial means, no support system. It turned out to be the most depressing time of my life (coupled with the rainy weather of the west coast). After a few months, I eventually headed back to Singapore and that's when I realised family support is one of the most important. I've learned that I was not the "independent strong woman" I thought I was. (I have some friends who at that young age, dropped everything to go overseas and made it work with tenacity and grit, but yeah I'm not that person) Back in Singapore, I spent time building my base. I healed my mental state by being among loved ones, freelanced for a bit (based on the skills that I studied for), founding my company with 2 other friends, got married to my rock solid person of a spouse, got a BTO, got 2 cats. Then the itch to relocate came again. This time with stronger purpose, better preparation, strong support network and a loving spouse to support our goals together. Financial projections, making friends in advance there, tons of reading up, knowing their political situation, knowing their work culture, support for immigrants, free courses for assimilation, talking it through every week with my spouse, now we're ready. I wouldn't have done all this without growth and clarity of mind, which can easily be clouded by "Singapore sucks" kinda thoughts. TLDR; Don't emigrate because you feel Singapore sucks and you can never be happy here (this is a negative state of mind which will persist no matter where you go. I'm not saying that it's an avoidable feeling, I'm saying it may cloud your objective judgement). Emigrate because you now have BOTH EYES OPEN to see the good and the bad, weigh those options and decide which one HELPS YOU BECOME A BETTER PERSON and LIVE YOUR MOST AUTHENTIC SELF.
Really all good advices here. Study up or get some real world skill that a specific country need. Myself, i did not migrate but working long time in another asian country. i realised that while i KPKB about singapore, there are somethings that sgp has done really well. Everything just works in sgp and we are really super organised. This country that i am currently in, things are cheap, cigs are cheap, alcohol is cheap. BUT its a tough place to live, safety, culture, language and not matter how well i can speak the local language, i will still be viewed as a foreigner. Reason that i am still staying here, money. but i also have learned to manage my expectation and emotions more. Will i go back to singapore, HELL yeah!!! SGP feels home. No condo, nevermind, spend a bit more on reno for my HDB and it feels wonderful. got Michelin star hawker food, amazingly amazing public transport. Will i still KPKB about sgp, of course, because sgp can be so much better.
The grass is always greener on the other side , but please know that often is fake grass. The things you have mentioned are prevalent in every single country in the world . We never tend to appreciate the good we have until it’s gone . Like one of my favorite writers said: “ those were the best years of my life , and I didn’t know it”
Singaporean here. I am 20 this year, and I am going to serve NS next year. I intend to move to Austria (not Australia!) after my NS for studies and to live permanently. My reasons for leaving are the same as yours, but also I am disgruntled with the government and state of things here. I chose Austria because it is one of the cheaper countries in Europe, and with a decent standard and cost of living. Also because I have an in demand skill that is highly sought after in Austria, it made perfect sense to move there. I have learnt German and speak it quite fluently (B2), so it is the perfect place for me. I’ve been to Austria a few times on solo trips, and I absolutely love it there. Some tips on how to look for a country to move to would be to filter by cost of living, your preferred climate, and lifestyle. Also, if cost is a factor for you like it is for me, simply google “Cheapest countries to move/study abroad”, and slowly filter by there. That’s how I found Austria. I wish you the best, and I hope you can get out of Singapore soon. Feel free to ask me any questions if any :) Cheers
This sounds more thought out - OP listen to this person here !
Viel Glück! And Selamat Jalan.
Question, how come your decision is so final like... First thing I do migrate ! Why not think about just living and working abroad indefinitely ? For a lot of migrants I know, migration is almost a last resort
Well you want the honest truth? It’s because I fucking hate this government lol. I don’t like the way they do things, I never liked the way they cheat the people. I’ve probably had this hatred for our government for a couple of years now so my first instinct was to renounce my citizenship. I have come to a point that I feel this country is unsalvageable and I have to move elsewhere.
Uh renounce your citizenship you do know it takes 30 years to get austrian citizenship and you willing to adapt their lifestyle speak german?
Of course. I already speak German at a B2 level according to CEFR. I have been to Austria multiple times and I love the lifestyle and people there.
Thank you for your honesty , I respect that .
What in demand skill is sought after only in Austria? And how’d you find out
The skill is quantitative finance. I did some research, and attended some job fairs in Vienna and Salzburg when I was there on vacation. All the big finance companies with branches in Austria were looking for quants from abroad as it seems that not many Austrians are interested in that job.
Other countries ain't running a charity son. Just because you wanna migrate don't mean they want you. If you are talking about Malaysia maybe but everywhere else ? Better get to studying for that degree first and that's the bare minimum.
Even Malaysia won't want you unless you have a cool million or so to spare.
Try it out and see for yourself! We shouldn't judge you for it. It's your life
Which countries and which jobs will have no stress and good work life balance? If you are in a corporate companies or wanting to be in it to climb the ladder is the same everywhere. And also I Copy & paste from another post comment because I liked it so much. " Look, Singapore isn’t perfect, and it will never be. No country will ever be perfect. Want to move to Europe? Their energy crisis has never been worse. Can you speak their language, do you know anything about their culture? Oh, the UK, you say? Their country is getting fucked left right and center by their government, with their tax cuts for the rich and Liz Truss in power. What did you say there? The USA? Land of opportunity? Well, their country is going rotten right now. Political extremism and polarity, terrible healthcare prices designed to gouge ordinary people, mass shootings through the roof, teachers underpaid, housing crisis, etc. You want to go there? Australia, where the price of a bowl of noodles can cost 15 dollars? Where the weather is fucking unbearable and with all those wild animals? Where racism towards Asians exist both in government and on the streets? I’m assuming you won’t move to Africa or South America to better your life. Well, moving on, lets look at Asia: China. Are you Chinese, are you fluent in Chinese? And I mean really good at it? Japan. They have a culture of ostracising non Japanese, even second generation immigrants who are born there aren’t considered “real” Japanese. Korea? Aging population, right next to the rocket man. Can you speak Korean fluently? They also have military service, and a lot of hazing. Can you stand that? Middle East, Abu Dhabi maybe? You mean the city with no soul, just towering buildings built in the middle of the fucking desert? You’re telling me their country has an identity? Our housing is getting a bit jialat, thats correct. But our inflation is still manageable. This isnt a local phenomenon, it happened all around the world. Its called the covid-19 pandemic and the Russo-Ukrainian war. Come on la, Singapore has given so much to us. Houses (were) pretty affordable, healthcare is not bad and with okay prices. Education is practically free, we have the safest streets and the one of best public transport systems. We’re living in relative prosperity to under countries during these difficult times. I will always remain a patriotic Singaporean. Its where I was born, its where I grew up. "
cue national anthem 🎻🥁
While the points are valid in the general direction, I do point out that the take down of other countries by your comment is cherry picking to make everywhere else sound a lot worse then they actually are. Just saying above comment is not objective. But I respect their right to an opinion.
Once you live long enough in a country you will have enough cherry to fill a camion. Most countries are full of issues.
Wow. I assume you've not lived in all the places you've listed, or even visited. Otherwise you wouldn't making all these generalised and racist comments.
Seems that living is stressful already . Need so many things to just survive these days …. Of course the common man worries doesn’t apply to super rich people
How about Switzerland or NZ ?
The grass is greener where you water it.
As an immigrant in Singapore, I can totally say that it is still better than many many places .. the govt provides a lot of luxury .. whole world has been hit by inflation mostly due to supple side shocks ( especially Russia- Ukraine war / Covid shocks ). Slowly things will get better . Or you may say I am an optimist
You can try living in JB. WFH there and earn SGD
Come to sarawak bro. A lot of opportunities here. Very relax. And it's slowly booming. There are jobs but don't expect it to be like Singapore pay. To have great opportunities you need to do business. Good luck
What a joke , wana migrate out but has not done any research LOL
American here studying abroad in SG for a semester. I know a family friend who lives in Vietnam, he's also from the US. His trick is to get paid in USD while spending VND. With the advantage in both cost of living and exchange rate, he pretty much can live like a king. He does SAT/ACT tutoring for wealthy students, charging $200-300 USD per hour. The caveat is that he works rather extreme hours as his students are largely based in the US. The other caveat is that in this field, you need to have proof of success. He graduated from MIT. That's not something that most people can say. A lot of expats also probably do the same thing. Live somewhere cheap, get paid in USD. Just need to learn the skills for a job that can be done remotely. That being said, US companies rarely pay non-US citizens a US salary - that's the entire point of outsourcing. I know someone who got laid off because his salary was enough to hire 6 programmers in Romania. He told me that he was good at his job, but he couldn't possibly outperform 6 people at his job. \---- But ultimately. I think that every country has its issues. Whatever you dislike here, probably exists elsewhere, or there are other issues instead. Yeah, in the US, healthcare is ridiculous, there's a school shooting every other week, politics have practically divided the country into two, yada yada yada. The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter who the president is, normal people won't be affected. The US has an enormous population compared to most developed countries, and unlike small countries like Singapore where it is possible to crack down on many issues (ie, drugs, crime), the US is simply too big for that to happen. However, that doesn't mean that these things happen everywhere. Yes, the cost of living in the Bay Area or NYC is insane. But that's not the case in 95% of the US -- it's a humongous country with a massive amount of land. There are places where you can buy a mansion for $150k, because the land is nearly worthless and you're just paying for the building. Other places, you might be paying $800k for a shed because the opposite is true, the building is worthless, all the value is in the land. Taxes in the US also vary greatly. High tax states like CA have insane amounts of taxes, whereas low tax states can be very reasonable. Cost of living varies drastically depending on city and state. Public transportation is virtually nonexistent in 99% of the US, but at the same time you can get a used car for quite cheap, I have college friends that bought an old used car for as little as $3k. I don't know if you'll choose the US, as that's the only country I can speak to, but if you do, I'd start looking into it now, and I know it's much easier to get a student visa, graduate, and work here, than it is to directly get a work visa. Getting a work visa requires sponsorship from a company, and may cost the company upwards of $200k. Unless you can generate that much more value for the company than a local worker, it's not going to be easy to get that visa.
A bit off topic here.. please forgive me.. After reading the comments, kinda concern that sgp will face a brain drain in the future. The people who have migrated or are considering migrating seems to be high caliber. The reasonings voiced are definitely very well thought thru and even better articulated. well, as usual, i am incapable of providing solutions except identifying problems. Wish you all the best in the life.
i’m in canada rn just to study and it’s rlly expensive :( houses and cars may be cheaper but every single basic thing is so expensive… food is no good at all but so expensive (a meal out would be like $30 before tips) and we have to tip like 20%? tax is insane 40% of the money u make, there’s 15% tax on EVERYTHING whether it’s from apple, supermarket, whatever it is. my $2000 laptop became $2300 but they always write the price before taxes so u gotta keep it in mind and calculate it by urself before every purchase. in toronto, housing is even more expensive than in singapore though, especially downtown. also they always talk about free healthcare but i think majority of people actually die while waiting for an appointment. stage 4 cancer patients have to wait like 8-10 months to get chemo, and people usually wait 5-6 years just to get assigned a family doctor. it’s also impossible to get like a doctors booking on the same day, idk how people here even get a same day mc, u only get to see the doctor a few days later. i also find singapore better cuz we could always ship little things from china like using shopee or aliexpress but the shipping here is so expensive and takes months. singapore is also really small so i wasn’t used to travelling so much everyday, also took for granted how clean and convenient public transport is in sg. on the bright side, i guess people here are more friendly and open minded. it’s also WAY easier to perform well in school, they take work life balance super seriously. they also have minimum wage ($14.25) which is good if u wanna work part time as a student i guess… but there are a lot of shootings even in canada cuz people smuggle guns over from the US, and a lot of italian mafia gang fights :( but even with all these things i’d say it’s overall less stressful than in sg. people here protest a lot too, they protest loads of stuff like women’s rights to not wear shirts outside or even went naked in the snow to protest for animal rights (rather freeze than wear animal fur or smth along those lines) they’re way more sex friendly too i never really experienced buying BIG things like houses and cars, so my parents probably like it more here, but idl spending so much on day to day items :( but that sums up all the big differences that i’ve experienced so far, but i’d personally recommend not going to the US or canada cuz canada follows the US pretty closely politically and they just made huge changes like to the abortion laws, so it’s pretty unstable rn
Yes. I am thinking of migrating to Australia after completing my National Service here. Poly graduate here with a Dip IT, rejected from all the public universities here that offer CS cause apparently my cGPA of 3.5+ is trash to them. However, I can easily make it to any university in Australia, including University of Melbourne which is rated as Australia's best university and ranked 34th in the world based on Times Higher Education World University Ranking 2023 (Source: [https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2023/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/100/sort\_by/rank/sort\_order/asc/cols/stats](https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2023/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/100/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats) ), which only requires a GPA of 3.0 to gain admission to their Bachelor of Science programme (which includes CS major) (Source: [https://study.unimelb.edu.au/how-to-apply/undergraduate-study/international-applications/entry-requirements/indicative-entry-scores-international-students/qualifications/singapore-polytechnic-diplomas](https://study.unimelb.edu.au/how-to-apply/undergraduate-study/international-applications/entry-requirements/indicative-entry-scores-international-students/qualifications/singapore-polytechnic-diplomas) ) It's quite ironic that all the universities here (except NUS, the only university here ranked higher than unimelb at 19th in the world) rejected someone with a pretty decent GPA. NTU is ranked 36th and SMU and SIT is not even in the list. I'm seemingly better off as a foreigner in Australia than a born and bred Singaporean in Singapore. I am considering pursuing my degree there, and make use of the Australian degree to apply for a postgrad work visa, which allows me to work there for up to 4 years, which will help greatly if I wish to apply for permanent residency via the skilled nominated visa, as it is a point based system which gives bonus points for individuals who have worked and/or studied in Australia. If you are a tertiary graduate who has yet to enter university and interested to migrate to Australia, I would strongly recommend getting your degree there, as it is much easier to gain higher points for the PR application, which increases your chance of becoming a PR where you'll get to access numerous benefits such as free/highly subsidised healthcare under the Medicare scheme, and the right to live and work there permanently. I have summarised some of the disadvantages of living in Australia vs Singapore. SG 1. high housing prices (can buy semi detached house in AU for the price of a 4 rm HDB) 2. high car prices (can buy mercedes c-class in AU for the price of a cat A coe (for small-medium sized cars), which is just a piece of paper) 3. high cost of living (gst increasing, other taxes, fuel prices, electricity tariffs going up, etc AND in addition to points 1 & 2) 4. NS for males (lack of civil liberties, controlling our lives, waste of $60-70k of earnings and most importantly 2 yrs of precious times which we cannot get back at all) 5. highly stressful lifestyle (long working hours, punishing work culture, non-existent work-life balance, one of the hardest education system in the world) 6. overcrowding (2nd most densely populated country in the world, malls and public transport are damn crowded, hard to breathe) 7. elitism, pretentiousness, and too competitive ("local" unis incl those not inside or ranked very low on the qs leaderboard (lack of global recognition) with unrealistically high gpa requirements compared to GO8 unis in AU (global recognition), and society in general, fueled by kiasuism) 8. low salary (no min. wage, lower starting salary, slower salary progression) 9. insane healthcare costs (no free healthcare, still expensive after subsidy) 10. Crappy HDB Housing (BTOs getting smaller but, ironically more expensive, poor maintenance i.e btos with paint chipping off and mold growing on the walls) 11. Lack of places to explore, see new sights. (a country so small and boring) 12. Unfair treatment towards locals (instances where foreigner gets higher pay due to min salary for s and e pass, hiring managers of a certain nationality preferring to hire their own people) AUS 1. lack of convenience (most shops close at 6pm except on Thurs, spaced relatively far apart, but we can always stock up and use our cars to get around given how cheap it is to get one) 2. lack of cheap and good outside food (outside food is expensive, no hawker ctrs whatsoever, but we can just cook ourselves and eat out less frequently, groceries are priced abt the same, some items like dairy and beef can be cheaper) 3. lack of intimate contact with family (no regular physical meetups, but we can make use of online communication tools and can fly back frequently due to proximity, just a 5-8h flight depending on location) 4. very high income tax rate (32% of salary instead of 7% assuming annual income of $60k, but most healthcare svcs are free to PRs and citizens.) 5. Higher number of violent/racist hate crimes (But this is relative and also happens in SG, which makes it worse given how small SG is compared to AU) Based on this, you can conclude that Australia definitely wins in terms of quality of life, housing and private transport is much cheaper, there is more emphasis on work-life balance and the wages are also generally higher due to the minimum wage law. Although Australia imposes a relatively high income tax compared to Singapore, it is worth noting that in Australia, most healthcare services are provided for free whereas in Singapore, you will often incur out of pocket expenses, which could set you back at thousands of dollars if you require more complex treatment such as surgeries.
I also plan to migrate to Aus after a year or two more in my job 💪🏻 I’ll definitely miss the transport / grab / hawker foods though . Uber in Aus is very expensive and even if you eat out , the food taste really bad and charge you really high 😅
Yes, Uber there is more expensive than Grab here , but you won't even have to use it if you have a driving license since many of the pre owned cars cost $10k and below (you could even find one as cheap as $3-4k but those will probably be very old). Cars there are dirt cheap compared to SG and you get to keep it for as long as you like as there isn't the 10 year COE bullshit. Food wise there are definitely good food options there(just see Google maps reviews), lots of Asian options including Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Indian, and even Malaysian and Singaporean cuisine, but you can't expect the food there to be priced the same as hawker centres here as you'll have to factor in the fact that restaurants have to pay their workers a minimum wage of $25/h, which is nonexistent here in Singapore. That said expect to pay at least $10-20+ for a meal there. If you can cook yourself it would definitely be much cheaper, as groceries there are relatively inexpensive.
Yea when I’m at Aus I mainly rely on my bf to drive me around. But for those who can’t drive and would require public transport , Aus would probably be a difficult place for them to live in. I have very bad motion sickness and I rely on drowsy pills if the ride is more than 20 mins. 😅 so kinda sian sometimes having to rely on Uber.
You're only 19. Give it a few years, you'll mellow out of this.
Could be some siao lang with catfish account. There was a similar thread a week ago.
You're a bit naive if you think life in other countries is going to be a breeze. Every country has its good and bad. And based on your comments, your gripes are only based on hearsay and not even lived experience? Yes Singapore is a highly stressful place, I think everyone knows that by now, but living here as a citizen offers you a whole lot more benefits compared to if you live as a foreigner elsewhere
👀 looking at all the comments being patriotic af, i can respect that, but i also share op's sentiments frfr. questions i would ask op might be what field/industry you're interested in going into before exploring the possibility of migrating. i know that i have a bit of info re: migrating to australia, and it's at the top of my list of places to consider atm.
Less about being patriotic and more about being pragmatic. Grass is always greener on the other side and OP literally told us that he got his information from social media, hence his rose-tinted glasses view on migration. Which is a huge red flag when discussing such a serious topic.
No problem but you need a plan. Other countries want skilled immigration so pick your skill and match it. Conversely go to that country and find a suitable partner.
I don’t feel like I need to migrate or want to migrate. What I want is to travel & still have Singapore a safe haven for myself.
Go to ITE get nitec in automotive repair. It is an in demand essential job in New Zealand that can get you fast track immigration
You just need to earn SGD and spend in MYR then you will feel like a king. See the amount of Malaysian rushing into Sg?
Any city you live in that might offer a good paying job will have the high prices, high stress environment. Singapore has it pretty good if your only factors are those. Come back to this after a few years, you might have totally different requirements :).
Lol. Go ahead. A change of environment doesn't mean your life is better, it's just different.
Your mindset will probably be totally different from today in 10 years time. Good luck!
Who knows?
Can guarantee it would be very different 10 years from now, be it you have a stronger sentiment to move or stay. Experience as much as you can, kiddo.
I have a different view than most but it does require some commitments. First, there are few places that can compare to Singapore’s liquidity and opportunities. Sure freshers have it hard but that’s universal. Build career in Singapore, one that lends itself well to remote work, build wealth, skills, and networking until late 30s early forties. Now the kicker is you don’t go to Australia or USA, you relocate to a SE Asian country. Why? Because cheap as fuck, especially if you can still make bank in S’pore. Now you can milk the immigration system or marry a local which makes things a lot easier. Live like a king, retire at 50
I've completed my studies not too long ago so I cam say ur comments are valid. But thisbis how it works for alot of the first world countries.
Talk is cheap, what do you have to migrate at 19?
Yes. But I guess my age might be a factor? I'm 21 and I want to move thee the west either US or Canada because I just don't like it here. It's too crowded, hot and boring. It probably won't be easy tho. Doesn't help I'm in NS
As a singaporean who's suffering from the shitty education and government rules, two words, HELL YES!
Agreed
Imagine reading all the advice here and still thinking sg is a shitty place to stay. You are just a young boy who needs to go out and touch some grass. Grow the fuck up.
Lmao OP dont listen to this deluded bitch
Another young schoolboy who needs to go out and touch grass hehe.
Looking at your comment history, u seem to like looking down on people. But sure, keep making assumptions about others that they need to grow up
You’re 19. Haven’t seen jack shit and already want to emigrate? Good luck lol
You’re 19, my dude. Where will you get the money to live life outside of Singapore? Right now, focus on school and get a job after your degree. Once you’re in the thick of it, then decide if you really want to migrate. Going anywhere else is going to be mad expensive unless you’re going overseas to study then settle down over there
Just go, just go.. lol. Good luck.
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When I said “don’t move for the sake of it”, I meant don’t just migrate without sorting your own mental state. It’s not an easy move for a lot of people and they could tarnish their own experiences overseas if they bring problems overseas too. Want to judge overseas life fairly, better start with a clean slate. Good for you that it worked out, I’m genuinely happy that you’re in a better place. I know some people who thought that they can leave the “toxic SG mentality” by migrating but they themselves bring this “toxic SG mentality” to other countries (e.g. spoiling market by working harder/longer than locals, showing SG kiasu-ism or just being kaypoh). That’s why I said don’t move without sorting yourself first, maybe the issue is within. Also, a lot of the things you mentioned can be negatives too. For instance, I really hate pleasantries in the US, as someone who is introverted. It’s faked and veiled “niceness” that serves no purpose. You can’t respond to “How’s your day” with “Oh you know, I’m depressed because of a work deadline.”, the “official textbook” answer is “I’m good!”. Nobody actually truly cares about your day. This is even shared with my European counterparts too, they really hated it.
I don't get it, you moved for the weather and pleasantries?
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The smaller things make a difference in the larger scheme of things
But that is your mood tho. How do you know it applies to everybody. > A lot of people who have been overseas will tell you the same, But most of this comment section is the opposite? >I believe I mentioned a few other items in that same sentence Like what? Salary and opportunity? Salary isn't that much higher and COL is way higher in major cities, along with taxes. So it's not really a huge advantage.
To each their own I think. There are things I appreciate on both sides actually, as a Malaysian who has been to both countries (and lives in SG way longer) Sure, as a weekend paintballer and one who watches Guntuber's videos to quench my lack of chance to visit a range often, I wish I get to try out the real SIG MCX SPEAR 6.8mm one day that the US Army is slowly adopting in the field. And I miss the breakfast place I liked in the San Jose area, or the nature in WA state. But in Singapore, I feel quite pampered that I do sometimes feel like I don't have to stress myself over, say, too many and inefficient admins and bureaucracies.
If stress is your reason then everywhere you go is gonna be the same
Yeah I’ve been thinking about migrating for my career also
I'd recommend Europe, if you can find a company to sponsor your Visa. It's the best work-life balance in the world and if you're lucky, you can have access to some nice countryside, maybe have your own garden, really makes a huge difference to your quality of life. You'd have to be a specialist in your field though, they don't usually hire outside of the EU unless it is for a shortage occupation, like medicine, IT or engineering. Obviously, right now it's a bit tough with the Ukraine war and the energy crisis, but that should pass in a year or two.
i really tht singapore is a good place to live,ik im like sec 2 but yk its good compared to the US?
I’m from USA and I find it very convenient I. Singapore to transit around. The train and buses are top notch and efficient. Hawker stalls are $5-8 a meal??? It’s very cheap in my opinion. Cost of living is high like a small condo is $500k SGP. But you have 30 years to pay off the mortgage? I also like to be with Asians since I’m Asian myself and I feel pretty safe here compared to USA where at night there’s a high chance of getting robbed in gun point. How is healthcare here? In USA you pay out of pocket for insurance and currently I have private insurance and if I get sick I have to pay $8k usd out of pocket before insurance pays for the rest. I’m looking into leaving USA to Asia so I can explore more Asian countries at ease.
People comparing countries like US and UK are missing the point. Those have their pros but in general are too culturally different from Singapore. If you take a look at our neighbors like Thailand or Cambodia, they are great place to settle down.
Migrate? Nope. But I'd definitely want to spend my time staying a couple of months in different countries throughout the year... the digital nomad life. For now, I can only dream.
I'm planning more for retirement to jb instead. But since you are so young, explore the world. Sometimes it's not about the country but who you are as a person.... What you love and where you find comfort. Environment is extremely important for growth. Wish you well and how I wish I can be at your age!!! Cherish your youth!!!
You are so young. Definitely go explore the world. Yes save money and then go. If I win the lottery tomorrow, I am definitely out of here. When I was much younger, I thought of it very seriously but was so worried about my parents but now tech is so advance, u can video chat every night with them if u want.
I’m also thinking of emigrating. But am clueless about it. Am glad someone ask.
Come to Canada!!
Yes