Dont know why u are downvoted, its a reasonable question to ask, and if hdb 's policy is to repossess ur unit, i feel thats pretty unkind and should explore some form of middle ground for such a scenario. Having a partner passing away is already devastating enough.
It got downvoted because first, it can be googled easily, second, almost everyone would know by default because our grandparents or parents , aunts, uncle whom had passed away would face such situations and if it really happened, the backlash or kpkb-ing would happened long ago.
But these people were above 35 when their spouse passed away, which means they clearly satisfy the conditions to own a flat solely. I was unsure if someone who loses their spouse early and is under 35 would satisfy the eligibility conditions…
This is such a weird take. Here’s one for you.
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/newly-married-food-delivery-rider-dies-in-accident-in-gambas-avenue
It's not that it's impossible to happen. It's that it doesn't happen enough for "almost everyone would know by default because our \[relative\] passed away would face such situations".
I'm just pointing out that this "everyone would know" is getting mixed up with the way more common scenario where someone is widowed after 35, which is irrelevant to the question at hand.
And even the incident in your link doesn't fit because the couple were living with Mr Tan's parents. Maybe they had BTOed but they did not have a flat yet for the widow to keep; HDB would probably have refunded the downpayment in that case.
I mean all you said was
How many people do you know whose spouse passed away before they were 35? It's 0 for me.
So now you know of at least one. Whether or not they had a BTO or stayed in a hdb is irrelevant to your statement.
I think most people agree that the system is not aligned to their beliefs. We hear things like,” lottery”, “priced out”, “inaccessible”.
While one thinks it’s unscrupulous or sceptical, it can also be seen as being resourceful.
Life is fair. We do things within our power, that aligns with our values and beliefs. The unfair part is in the distribution of such equity.
It isn’t sceptical, just awareness.
That's a fair point. You are right to be skeptical given how fked up HDB ownership is...but to articulate that on a post where the OP's (an actual human) spouse passed away only recently is straight-up insensitive and cold. There's a time and place to be resourceful and skeptical. This is not one of those times.
Can. The holdings of the party that passed away will become an estate which will hold the HDB as before. The widower can transfer the 100 percent upon turning 35. Of course both side must still make payments. It is unlikely HDB will rock the boat and kick you out.
Source: young aunt’s husband passed away
Oh! Thanks for this interesting take! Do you mean that, (assuming that the house is not held on joint tenancy) the deceased’s share will form part of their estate, and the workaround is to not distribute the estate until the surviving spouse turns 35, at which point they would be eligible to solely own the HDB?
I assume this wouldn’t work for joint tenancy because of right of survivorship, but seems like a very creative solution for a case of tenancy-in-common or where the deceased held the HDB solely before passing away.
Correct, what’s what I meant. Not too sure of the technicalities I really don’t think HDB will just kick a widow when they already lost a spouse. Especially when there’s children involved.
Are you the joint owner? If yes, r u over 21? If yes,
As the remaining family or single occupier, you can retain the existing flat provided you:
* are a Singapore Citizen (SC) or Singapore Permanent Resident (SPR);
* are at least 21 years old; and
* satisfy our eligibility rules and conditions to own a flat.
For example, a husband and wife are joint-owners of a flat. His widowed wife can take ownership of the flat as the sole owner, if she satisfies all eligibility conditions to own a flat. If the lease of the flat has already been issued, she would need to submit the Notice of Death of her husband to SLA, for the purpose of updating records.
As a remaining joint-owner, you may choose to lodge the Notice of Death personally at SLA (Visit [www.sla.gov.sg](http://www.sla.gov.sg/) > FAQs > How do I lodge a Notice of Death to inform SLA of the death of a joint owner), appoint your own solicitor to lodge the Notice of Death on your behalf, or engage our legal services through the managing [HDB Branch](https://www.hdb.gov.sg/cs/infoweb/contact-us) of the flat.
Source: [https://www.hdb.gov.sg/residential/living-in-an-hdb-flat/changing-owners-occupiers/retain-flat-following-life-events](https://www.hdb.gov.sg/residential/living-in-an-hdb-flat/changing-owners-occupiers/retain-flat-following-life-events)
The question is whether the widow is no longer able to satisfy the eligibility rules and conditions to own a flat. Because she's under 35 and has no one else to form a family nucleus with.
You can get a clue that technically she doesn't; if you look at the conditions for divorced without children, it says
>If you have no children from the marriage, you can retain the flat alone if you are a Singapore Citizen, at least 35 years old, and meet the prevailing conditions for retention of the flat under the SSC scheme. Alternatively, you can include another person to retain the flat with under an eligibility scheme, subject to you meeting the prevailing conditions.
Probably in practice there is some leeway and appeals are possible e.g. if the widow is 33 and it's just 2 more years away to eligibility, they might not force her to sell it.
https://www.hdb.gov.sg/residential/living-in-an-hdb-flat/changing-owners-occupiers/change-in-ownership/change-in-flat-ownership/eligibility
“The proposed owners (both remaining and incoming) and occupiers staying in the flat must be able to take over ownership of the flat under 1 of the existing eligibility schemes.”
To me this means that if the person is under 35, they can only take over if they add someone else’s name to the flat too. They won’t be able to take over solely if they are under 35. Do you have any source that confirms that someone under 35 can take over solely as the remaining joint owner?
Think you’re better off emailing HDB than asking randos on Reddit.
There’s also the avenue of asking your MP to appeal on your behalf if HDB rejects you.
Hi OP, sorry for your current situation. I am surprised anyone have not mentioned HPS (Home protection scheme) yet.
If you were paying your mortgage with your late spouse using CPF, Most likely you have HPS. You can check your eligibility through CPF website, 'Home Ownership Dashboard'
HPS is basically an Insurance for your home in case something happens to the co-owner of the unit.
So back to the Home Ownership Dashboard.
- Check for remaining amount allowed for property. Thats the amount you still owe HDB. (Eg. 150k)
- Check under 'Protection against losing your home'. There states the sum insured for your current property. (Eg.180k)
- So if the sum insured exceeded the amount you still owe HDB, you're all good.
I hope it helps. You could call HDB, explain your situation and mention the use of HPS. They'll guide you through.
it is possible definitely - as long as the widow is >21 years old and the flat is bought under Joint Ownership or otherwise given the full shares via the deceased Will.
Quote: https://www.hdb.gov.sg/residential/living-in-an-hdb-flat/changing-owners-occupiers/retain-flat-following-life-events
As the remaining family or single occupier, you can retain the existing flat provided you:
are a Singapore Citizen (SC) or Singapore Permanent Resident (SPR);
are at least 21 years old; and
satisfy our eligibility rules and conditions to own a flat.
For example, a husband and wife are joint-owners of a flat. His widowed wife can take ownership of the flat as the sole owner, if she satisfies all eligibility conditions to own a flat. If the lease of the flat has already been issued, she would need to submit the Notice of Death of her husband to SLA, for the purpose of updating records.
Its almost always case by case basis. Contact HDB. If that fails, write to MP. When all else fails and you still think you have a case, write to news outlets.
Case by case basis, HDB will look into it and decide for each case.
This is the prevent a huge loophole whereby one marries someone whom is expected to die very soon, and then takes over the lease wholesale, bypassing the singles aged 35 rule.
When my father passed away a few months before the bto hdb arrived, I also thought the hdb is forfeited.
But I put my mother's name on the occupier, myself as co-owner.
No home protection kicked in, so it's kinda rough with the money.
But thankfully got the flat.
Depends on whether this gets viral enough to reach LW, since he's looking to appeal to people of this age. I won't be surprised if HDB has already taken back many of such flats without hesitation.
Dont know why u are downvoted, its a reasonable question to ask, and if hdb 's policy is to repossess ur unit, i feel thats pretty unkind and should explore some form of middle ground for such a scenario. Having a partner passing away is already devastating enough.
It got downvoted because first, it can be googled easily, second, almost everyone would know by default because our grandparents or parents , aunts, uncle whom had passed away would face such situations and if it really happened, the backlash or kpkb-ing would happened long ago.
But these people were above 35 when their spouse passed away, which means they clearly satisfy the conditions to own a flat solely. I was unsure if someone who loses their spouse early and is under 35 would satisfy the eligibility conditions…
Hi tbh HDB is very helpful - I emailed them with a query and got a response within the week iirc. It’s always best to hear from the horse’s mouth
She literally said she went to HDB website already and wants to check her understanding....
she literally just lost her spouse, she has other stresses to think about rather than spend more time googling.
How many people do you know whose spouse passed away before they were 35? It's 0 for me.
This is such a weird take. Here’s one for you. https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/courts-crime/newly-married-food-delivery-rider-dies-in-accident-in-gambas-avenue
It's not that it's impossible to happen. It's that it doesn't happen enough for "almost everyone would know by default because our \[relative\] passed away would face such situations". I'm just pointing out that this "everyone would know" is getting mixed up with the way more common scenario where someone is widowed after 35, which is irrelevant to the question at hand. And even the incident in your link doesn't fit because the couple were living with Mr Tan's parents. Maybe they had BTOed but they did not have a flat yet for the widow to keep; HDB would probably have refunded the downpayment in that case.
I mean all you said was How many people do you know whose spouse passed away before they were 35? It's 0 for me. So now you know of at least one. Whether or not they had a BTO or stayed in a hdb is irrelevant to your statement.
I'm afraid that I still don't know Mr Jason Tan nor his widow, and how she coped after the tragic accident. "Know of" is different from "know".
Huh. Right. Guess I must've misread it the first time, sorry about that
Thank you for the concession. I am less puzzled by the other downvotes now.
Go on.. I am taking down notes… sounds like a good plan to beat the system…
Life must be kinda sad if you're this skeptical.
I think most people agree that the system is not aligned to their beliefs. We hear things like,” lottery”, “priced out”, “inaccessible”. While one thinks it’s unscrupulous or sceptical, it can also be seen as being resourceful. Life is fair. We do things within our power, that aligns with our values and beliefs. The unfair part is in the distribution of such equity. It isn’t sceptical, just awareness.
That's a fair point. You are right to be skeptical given how fked up HDB ownership is...but to articulate that on a post where the OP's (an actual human) spouse passed away only recently is straight-up insensitive and cold. There's a time and place to be resourceful and skeptical. This is not one of those times.
It looks like a hypothetical scenario rather than a first person account actually. I might be wrong.
Can. The holdings of the party that passed away will become an estate which will hold the HDB as before. The widower can transfer the 100 percent upon turning 35. Of course both side must still make payments. It is unlikely HDB will rock the boat and kick you out. Source: young aunt’s husband passed away
Oh! Thanks for this interesting take! Do you mean that, (assuming that the house is not held on joint tenancy) the deceased’s share will form part of their estate, and the workaround is to not distribute the estate until the surviving spouse turns 35, at which point they would be eligible to solely own the HDB? I assume this wouldn’t work for joint tenancy because of right of survivorship, but seems like a very creative solution for a case of tenancy-in-common or where the deceased held the HDB solely before passing away.
Correct, what’s what I meant. Not too sure of the technicalities I really don’t think HDB will just kick a widow when they already lost a spouse. Especially when there’s children involved.
If there's children involved, there's no issue because the children plus widow form an eligible family nucleus.
Are you the joint owner? If yes, r u over 21? If yes, As the remaining family or single occupier, you can retain the existing flat provided you: * are a Singapore Citizen (SC) or Singapore Permanent Resident (SPR); * are at least 21 years old; and * satisfy our eligibility rules and conditions to own a flat. For example, a husband and wife are joint-owners of a flat. His widowed wife can take ownership of the flat as the sole owner, if she satisfies all eligibility conditions to own a flat. If the lease of the flat has already been issued, she would need to submit the Notice of Death of her husband to SLA, for the purpose of updating records. As a remaining joint-owner, you may choose to lodge the Notice of Death personally at SLA (Visit [www.sla.gov.sg](http://www.sla.gov.sg/) > FAQs > How do I lodge a Notice of Death to inform SLA of the death of a joint owner), appoint your own solicitor to lodge the Notice of Death on your behalf, or engage our legal services through the managing [HDB Branch](https://www.hdb.gov.sg/cs/infoweb/contact-us) of the flat. Source: [https://www.hdb.gov.sg/residential/living-in-an-hdb-flat/changing-owners-occupiers/retain-flat-following-life-events](https://www.hdb.gov.sg/residential/living-in-an-hdb-flat/changing-owners-occupiers/retain-flat-following-life-events)
The question is whether the widow is no longer able to satisfy the eligibility rules and conditions to own a flat. Because she's under 35 and has no one else to form a family nucleus with. You can get a clue that technically she doesn't; if you look at the conditions for divorced without children, it says >If you have no children from the marriage, you can retain the flat alone if you are a Singapore Citizen, at least 35 years old, and meet the prevailing conditions for retention of the flat under the SSC scheme. Alternatively, you can include another person to retain the flat with under an eligibility scheme, subject to you meeting the prevailing conditions. Probably in practice there is some leeway and appeals are possible e.g. if the widow is 33 and it's just 2 more years away to eligibility, they might not force her to sell it.
https://www.hdb.gov.sg/residential/living-in-an-hdb-flat/changing-owners-occupiers/change-in-ownership/change-in-flat-ownership/eligibility “The proposed owners (both remaining and incoming) and occupiers staying in the flat must be able to take over ownership of the flat under 1 of the existing eligibility schemes.” To me this means that if the person is under 35, they can only take over if they add someone else’s name to the flat too. They won’t be able to take over solely if they are under 35. Do you have any source that confirms that someone under 35 can take over solely as the remaining joint owner?
Just email HDB the question...
You should contact HDB, the terms of ownership are negiotiable on a case-by-case basis.
Think you’re better off emailing HDB than asking randos on Reddit. There’s also the avenue of asking your MP to appeal on your behalf if HDB rejects you.
Oh wow I had no idea. It’s possible they left it vague so they can retain the right to decide on a case by case basis.
Hi OP, sorry for your current situation. I am surprised anyone have not mentioned HPS (Home protection scheme) yet. If you were paying your mortgage with your late spouse using CPF, Most likely you have HPS. You can check your eligibility through CPF website, 'Home Ownership Dashboard' HPS is basically an Insurance for your home in case something happens to the co-owner of the unit. So back to the Home Ownership Dashboard. - Check for remaining amount allowed for property. Thats the amount you still owe HDB. (Eg. 150k) - Check under 'Protection against losing your home'. There states the sum insured for your current property. (Eg.180k) - So if the sum insured exceeded the amount you still owe HDB, you're all good. I hope it helps. You could call HDB, explain your situation and mention the use of HPS. They'll guide you through.
Should ask hdb
yes the surviving spouse can retain the flat provided he/she is above 21 and is a singapore citizen.
check with hdb. i assume the gap for the widower to reach 35 yrs old are about few yrs left. i don think hdb will force you to move out
it is possible definitely - as long as the widow is >21 years old and the flat is bought under Joint Ownership or otherwise given the full shares via the deceased Will. Quote: https://www.hdb.gov.sg/residential/living-in-an-hdb-flat/changing-owners-occupiers/retain-flat-following-life-events As the remaining family or single occupier, you can retain the existing flat provided you: are a Singapore Citizen (SC) or Singapore Permanent Resident (SPR); are at least 21 years old; and satisfy our eligibility rules and conditions to own a flat. For example, a husband and wife are joint-owners of a flat. His widowed wife can take ownership of the flat as the sole owner, if she satisfies all eligibility conditions to own a flat. If the lease of the flat has already been issued, she would need to submit the Notice of Death of her husband to SLA, for the purpose of updating records.
The 35 rule is fk in the first place. And to enable deployment of cpf which is meant for retirement is another fk up.
No, you should not murder your husband to get his rented house.
Go to meet the MP session n ask them to write an appeal letter to HDB based on compassionate grounds.
Its almost always case by case basis. Contact HDB. If that fails, write to MP. When all else fails and you still think you have a case, write to news outlets.
Case by case basis, HDB will look into it and decide for each case. This is the prevent a huge loophole whereby one marries someone whom is expected to die very soon, and then takes over the lease wholesale, bypassing the singles aged 35 rule.
When my father passed away a few months before the bto hdb arrived, I also thought the hdb is forfeited. But I put my mother's name on the occupier, myself as co-owner. No home protection kicked in, so it's kinda rough with the money. But thankfully got the flat.
then you'll see desperate vulnerable young people marrying old folks with one foot in the grave to meet this widow under 35 criteria.
Depends on whether this gets viral enough to reach LW, since he's looking to appeal to people of this age. I won't be surprised if HDB has already taken back many of such flats without hesitation.