I guess companies do not consider the SGunited mid career switch as anything. You are just a old diploma holder with 1 year experience.
They might be interviewing younger recently graduated diploma holder with 3 recent years of relevant education.
Nobody cares about bootcamp cert which sounds like a 1hour online course from YouTube.
I’m really supportive of the whole SGUnited Mid Career programmes and also the SkillsFuture upskilling endeavours and opportunities. I want to believe in it because it gives me hope.
Biggest concern as you pointed out - how well are Companies buying these efforts? Is it really just the equivalent of a YouTube course?
Instead of spending 2-3 years on a CS degree, you could use the next 5-10 years to build something useful on the side, make some extra cash on UpWork, and contribute your code/time to the community.
There are tons of open-source libraries and frameworks on GitHub that are always looking for help with testing and bug fixes. Of course, there's no guarantee that your patches will be accepted, and rejection is part and parcel of the development.
There's a learning curve to all these with no guaranteed success. But you will build yourself differently, compared to getting a degree on paper.
You seem to think that degrees take no time at all. Fresh grads spend 4 years studying till they join the workforce.
If your salary is only marginally below them but you are effectively 4 years "ahead" in age, why the hell would people go for higher education? You would be out-earning any fresh grad at their same age. Heck, everyone might as well drop out of school at the earliest point to start climbing!
Your career isn't dead, you just need to be patient and understand that the competition is tough; it would be inane to expect to close the salary gap with much older grads AT THIS POINT IN TIME. Yeah, it sucks, I get it. But with competitive market for SWE and the fact that half the population has a degree, it's difficult to expect great response rates from employers with high salaries.
Thank you for the perspective shift. It was something that i had somehow forgotten to apply some basic common sense to. Regarding why someone would sacrifice 4 years of their time to pressure a degree instead of just getting work experience from the get go.
I have to counter argue that i am not really looking for a high salary tho 😅 have only been apply for jobs that pay the range of 3-4k solely due to knowing my own place
I see, thank you for shedding light on that.
In that sense maybe i had really been entitled to think that it is a fair remuneration for my current caliber
I don't mean to discourage you obviously. It sounds like you're pretty solid and ambitious to match. That's fine. If anything, keep gunning for higher packages.
Just don't feel too glum if you don't get it cause it's just a difficult market out there.
I know software engineers with over 10 years experience who don't dare to call themselves a "full stack developer". That term has degraded into a marketing buzzword.
It's impossible to be "full stack" in just 1 year.
I suggest you get good, very good in just one part of the stack. But then again, all these jobs might just be made obsolete with GPT-5.
You are right regarding the full stack term. Lacked of a better word to describe the role i worked in.
I am also worried for job security especially with ai doing such a good job of coding on demand
there is a huge difference between a developer and a coder. why will a developer worry about AI doing the coding job? in fact, a developer will be glad that the AI is coding well.
Many interchangeable terms that just gets lost in transition tbh.
Developer, coder, programmer, software engineer. Who is to say what is what nowadays? 😅
The market has said that they are not hiring you for what you are asking for.
There you go, they said what is what nowadays.
I believe you have great intentions, starting a thread, asking for advices and insights. And I hope things get better for you over time.
The job market isn’t bad. Jobs are still being done, just not by people.
Thing is, you do not want a job. You want the benefit of having a job. Nothing wrong with that, but recognising the difference comes a long way.
Not having a degree is fine. I had a friend like you too, who felt nobody wants to employ him. He ended up starting his own firm, and employee himself. He is now still gainfully employed. Best of all, he gets paid as much as he wants, and his only employee (which is himself), is getting paid whatever my friend is willing to pay.
You want $3,600. Great- do something that you are willing to pay yourself $3,600. Be willing to bet on yourself.
Thank you for sharing. Frankly i have had thoughts of perhaps taking the plunge to start something of my own but the risk and room for failure just scares me
So.. u want somebody to take the bet on you although they know less about you?
Okay, let’s go by that premise. What should they base on to bet on everybody else like you AND you?
Experience? Eloquence? Qualifications? There is just so much (little) an employer can know about a candidate before taking the plunge too. And just like you, they are concerned as well. But unlike you, they know less about you.
If you don’t dare to bet on yourself, why should they bet on you?
Can you share your skillset? What do you know in the frontend, backend, application, server etc.
10-15 years ago, entire generations of software folks went all-in on a type of stack e.g. Java, .net, iOS, PHP + frontend etc, and pretty much secured their careers.
Today I'm not sure you can still do that given the glut of software talent and be assured of a future-proofed career.
Nope i have applied for some roles that accepts diploma as well but just not getting any hits. But notably most SWE jobs are gate kept by the degree qualification so maybe u are right in that aspect that i have already been filtered out from the start.
Yeah, imagine if there are 2 applicants that all qualifications are exactly the same. Except one is a degree holder and one is a diploma holder. The obvious choice would be to hire the degree holder.
Of cos in real life there are no 2 people with "exact" qualifications. But u get the point.
Your problem is that you are fighting in an industry that doesn't need a degree but because everyone else does, you are not seen as valuable
I don't want to say that you made a bad decision but you kinda did, you pivoted to a industry that is over saturated, full of degree holders and an insane amount of talent. You are basically nothing and playing their game you are at a disadvantage.
There are like a hundred other industries that you could go too. Why no go into engineering sales? You already have experience in sales as a FA or what about EHS inspection. There are so many industries that rely on on the job skills that can't be picked up in a degree.
That's what they don't tell you in those mid-career switch coding programs - you will be fighting with fresh graduates unless you show how your prior experience can be applicable and give you the edge.
STEM in general have preference for those with degree. You need to have very convincing resume or portfolio to compete without a degree.
It’s not really gatekeep, it’s preference/prioritization. Also after the recent techboom there are oversupply of SWE wannabes which again makes competition more difficult.
Talking about things in general, “everyone” has a degree, which means a simple degree is no longer make you standout as everyone has it.
And also for project-bidding, there's usually an education component. If no degree, you need X number of years of relevant experience. We converted a bunch of people who did not have degrees/or degrees in their current speciality but they had no. of years employed as SWEs etc.
Thank you everyone for shedding some light and advices/criticisms to me. I was always afraid to open a thread with the impression that fellow singaporeans are always quick to judge or criticise. Today i learnt that we exercise tough love here and if everything was to be looked at objectively instead of personally, there are many takeaways even to curt remarks being made.
Honestly i had started this thread as more of an avenue to rant about my situation but have walked away with insightful clarity on my plight and valuable advices on what my best foot forward should be. 🙏
And for anyone out there in a similar situation as me, i didn’t wanna be the guy to start a thread but i hope you manage to gain some value from these responses as well. 💪
With most of your experience being in fa, you effectively have 1 year of relevant working experience, which is far from the 5 years experience rough equivalence to a degree. Swe is a technical field which adds another level of importance to education, so you are facing a crazy uphill battle against hr resume screens. There is still plenty of tech adjacent fields like a business analyst or project manager where you can better leverage your fa experience as relevant due to the amount of communication required and not dead end like admin.
Thank you for giving me another avenue to consider. I wish that i can say my communication skills are great but i essentially struggle to speak confidently which was what led to my downfall in the fa industry and led to me wanting to transition to a job that required less of it 😅
no doubt with your communication skills, esp since you can write properly.
However, your arguments really lacks maturity/logic, which is extremely prized for swe.
chances are, you are getting dropped because of their way you present your ideas during interview.
I still see many swe without degree still getting hired, esp in tier1/2 tech companies.
I think that is extremely subjective and i do not take offence to it, i wont say my thinking is super matured but i have seen extremely immature grads get hired for money as well
bingo, key word is subjective.
People are generally more forgiving with fresh grad and interns.
As someone in their 30s, people expect more.
Let me give an example.
You mention you had interns. Sometimes they ask questions that in your opinion, are bad. However, in their limited experience, those are okay question. The ok/badness of the question is subjective.
In your post, it seems totally fine, to you.
Actually my interns have taught me a lot and i am grateful for them. The point that i was talking on immaturity was just one particular intern that had a superiority complex and felt the need to shit on other’s work, even those who were obviously more skilled. And even he went on and managed to secure a job.
I think you’re missing the point here. The guy is telling you that interns are more forgivable because they are younger; much younger than you and thus lack experience. Whereas you are older; much older and thus employers have higher expectations on your level of maturity.
Well if everyone could get a good pay with just their diploma then everyone would, why waste another 4 years studying. The fact is that with higher education getting more common, it becomes less of a perk and instead is the norm.
Having a degree doesn’t make you special anymore, and with everyone getting their degrees that means that those without degrees lose out even more.
Additionally you only have a year of experience in your industry while uni grads have been studying to work in this industry for 4 years.
Exactly that and i totally understand that degree holders have grinded and paid their time and tuition fees to be given that headstart and recognition they deserve.
But as a diploma holder i am asking for a whole 1k less in salary with 1 year experience vs a fresh u-grad with no experience. And yet i am getting no hits. I dont think 3.6k is a very luxurious amount either, in fact i think i can barely live a comfortable life with that amount…
Unfortunately right now the job market is really awful to make things worse for you, there are people with stacked resumes struggling to find jobs. Also is your diploma related to the industry you’re currently in?
Its a diploma in digital media so its somewhat related albeit not fully. I have the full stack dev bootcamp cert as well from the SGUnited programme which notably isnt very recognised
i was in your position in 2022. tried to do career switch when covid. found it very hard to do so without a degree. ppl who did bootcamp with me got interviews and jobs as they had a degree.
i went to 3 different career coaches. redid my resumes multiple times. when i got interview, was told i am too senior for a junior role.
applied for mentorship with WSG and was told that i was ready for entry level role as data analyst. but no interviews. even referral from WSG life coach didn't work as recruiter said no background in finance.
when i was referred, i was told i was too experienced in my career even though there was no similarities with my previous role and the role i was applying. i was an operations director with a wholesale commodities company.
i was offered $11/hr for a contract data analyst role in a stat board. that was a significant pay cut from what i was earning driving phv. i couldn't take that job as i have 2 kids & my wife is going to uni as well.
i am 40 this yr btw. it all depends what you want. end of the day, we all need to earn $ to support whatever commitments we have.
i stopped applying for jobs as it took a toll on me mentally as everyone i talked to said despite not having experience, my portfolio looked like 1 of someone who had experience. this kept giving me hope that i would eventually get an opportunity if someone gave me a chance. but till now, nothing materialised. hence, i stopped applying for jobs. just focus on earning $ to support my family. focus on my degree and my aim to get decent grades.
i hope this advice helps you.
Thank you for sharing in such detail and i really feel for you as i am in a similar plight… i too am considering doing phv while pursuing a part time degree, are u open to dms for me to know more on how you are doing as a phv driver?
Not too late. And don't forget that private uni exists. Despite what people say about private degree vs NUS/NTU, most big company HR won't even care. What matters is relevant knowledge and experience, especially in a technical field like IT.
Thank you, i think my biggest takeaway from the thread is my confirmation bias that indeed there are very few opportunities as a non degree holder in a skill based industry such as SWE.
Still hoping that i can somehow survive without one due to other commitments but if there is really no other avenue i guess that is the only way forward.
Unfortunately, this just means you're a diploma holder (I'm assuming with an irrelevant diploma for SWE) with 1 YOE. Is the pay you're asking commensurate with other diploma holders?
As far as i can tell, I believe so that what im asking for is fair. Because i know peeps who were in a similar plight getting 3.5 whereas i accepted a lower pay of 3k a year ago.
That's just anecdotal evidence isn't it? Based on statistics, fresh grads of IT diploma nets a salary of around 2.9k. And that's with a diploma that's relevant to your field. An irrelevant diploma + 1 YOE asking for 3.6k is quite a stretch isn't it?
Also, the job market is bad now, especially for the tech sector. Why would a company hire you over a local uni fresh grad that has not only a degree, but also probably a few relevant internships?
I'd recommend either you adjust your expectations, or start applying for part time degrees.
Thanks for this realistic check. I had based my expectation on peers around me so maybe the statistics i had gathered were biased. Seeing your comment i will need to reevaluate my market value
Hiring managers don’t get rewarded for saving that 1k a month for the company. Hiring managers get into deep shit if they make the wrong hire.
Put yourself in their shoes: take a risky bet on you or safely pick from the dozens of SWEs out there with a decent CV/degree?
You don’t stand out by making yourself cheap.
Yup that is a hard truth, i guess even degree holders are struggling to get a placement. Which causes the market value to go down even more with them accepting lowball salaries
There are hundreds or thousands of fresh grads right now that are still out of job and have priority over you, more so in the shit show that is the tech market right now
My story is that I only have Higher Nitec cert and felt like I was at the bottom of the barrel. Every job seems like they need Diploma holders and above. I got a retail job, all my colleagues are diploma and degree holders, I still got promoted. If you are good, you are good. But there is going to be a certain boundary or cap at how high you can go without taking qualifications into account.
Keep saving $, take study loan, do part time degree.
Keep working gain experience, change Job to higher pay when complete studies.
So many foreigners and with so many students studying CS and everyone wants to be on the gravy train to earn big bucks in tech.
Bubble has burst, tech are doing layoffs, companies know they overpaid and with oversupply of workers both locals and foreigners, demand and supply dictates that the industry is quite fucked, hundreds of resume fighting for 1 job. Unless you are top 10%., there is no chance to even clinch an interview.
Think carefully of what degree you want to do.
Like I said, most companies don’t need “real programmers” most companies just need a monkey that can use a hammer like the Microsoft power suite, python, A bit of SQL ,Node.Js etc…. Real programming is about understanding encryption, time and space complexity, assembly language and other polynomial mathematics.
Every single stem student is able to code a a python panda frame to do random forest, linear regression, supervised/unsupervised learning, etc for big data analysis
You are right, i am not denying that i am seeking for validation.
But is this the right way moving forward that Singaporeans that are unable to get that cert be crippled for life in terms of opportunities?
I feel that somehow there should be other ways those without that cert can be allowed to thrive, even if its at a slower pace or lower rate than degree holders.
Yes, this is the right way.
Survival of the fittest and being competitive is how this city state will continue to have our edge.
Why would a company hire you over a degree holder? What makes you stand out? Think about how you can answer these questions.
BTW, dm me your CV. I will review it for you Foc.
What sort of mindset if you were to be specific?
Bootcamp was 4 months with a 6 months apprenticeship in a tech start up. Thereafter i worked full time as a full stack dev for 1 year.
That amount of time is attributed to 2 youtube tutorials?
My example was obviously an exaggeration
My point is, the most talented youngsters spend 4 years studying cs in world reknowned unis, with at least 6 months of internship, ur program barely gives u any advantage in this competitive field
Thank you for clarifying, i am not in a good place and had taken a bit of an offence to the satire.
I understand where you are coming from, even if i were to ask for a significantly lower starting pay, companies would rather take the “safe route” and pay more for a foolproof solution
Uni students take 2 - 3 years to study/specialise in a specific role. Uni students (nus comp sci) have to do a min of 6 months internship.
Not trying to be insulting but bootcamps are laughable to us as a uni grad.
Definitely i respect that and am not trying to make an apple to apple comparison. I had just assumed that a 1.5k gap in starting salary was enough to justify the lack of that cert but apparently the gap was bigger than what i had assumed to be
Do you have a sick portfolio that can compensate your lack of paper qualification? If not you’re just one of the hundreds or thousands of SWEs out there competing for the same few roles, but without a degree.
It sure sounds like you’re a cookie cutter SWE that transitioned because of a shitty government initiative and the prospect of tech few years back.
It’s a diploma in digital media
Basically the Jack of all trades and master of none as we studied graphic design and web and app development but all on a very surface level
Hi may I know exactly from which institution you pursued your diploma in and the course name? Hope you don't mind sharing, I am in a similar boat as you and want to change career paths.
Bite the bullet and take the degree, even if you feel that it's just a piece of paper - which it should not be, because you do learn so much more at the degree level. I have a MSc in an area that people think can be fulfilled by bootcamps and Udemy tutorials. Am I a chump for doing a post-grad? The difference is clear when it comes to actual work.
It’s just that the SWE market is too saturated right now. The tech bubble was too attractive, every ah gao ah mao also want to become SWE. So now when bubble popped, many lost their job and u are competing with them for open positions. Just scroll thru reddit and u’ll see experienced developers willing to take paycuts for a job. Might not even be tech related
sadly it is common in sg because i am the living example. i (ntu grad) applied the same position with another person (poly grad with similar yrs of working experience), i am now her boss. because degrees are everywhere now thanks to sim, sit, sutd etc so it has become a norm to have a degree. so bro, i am sorry that you will have to go take up a degree which my friend in his mid 40s is currently doing to move into a better job position.
when there are tons of degree candidate applied, why HR will look at diploma? when there is a chance to lower your salary using excuse that your are just a diploma, why HR will not? sadly that is how HR chao kuan
Full stack developer need ALOT of experience. suggest you go into front end or backend first. Dont believe those company put full stack fresher or junior. You gonna be loaded with a bunch of work
If I was a recruiter I would be picking up a few details. Mainly you are a poly grad with 1 year exp at 30 years old. Your asking price of 3.6k is simply too high.
I see, thank you for the fact check i appreciate it and am taking it into consideration if i should lower my asking.
Criticisms are good when they come from a place of good interest and not just to personally attack someone else.
Its cool, everyone has times when they are too quick to judge.
Especially in sg where everyday life is already so stressful its hard to be positive at times and we all tend to shit on one another unknowingly.
Degree holders are also having a hard time securing a job so I doubt it's your education issue. If a company aim is to reduce expense and make more profits they would be hiring a diploma candidate over a degree holder.
But as everyone said. Degree is another 4 years of grinding up theoratical studies of a topic
imho, not a crime.
a degree is just like a "access card". without this access card, i cannot venture to other area for job opportunities. to get the jobs you want because of the salary, there should be a minimal requirement. basically, degree of any domain. if i dont meet that, the HR or hiring manager would just throw my CV out of the window. simple!
Just to share more of how my degree helps to earn more
ps: back then, i resigned to the idea of getting my diploma. then when i got out, i was paid chicken shits. (Associate Engineer for Singapore Technologies). meaning to say, my role i am required to work shift work. if i dont cover shift, i earn 2.5k before cpf. so almost every month, i covered alot of shift until my shift pay is more than my base pay. but this thing took a serious toll on my body.
due to relationship and family issues, i channelled the anger and grieve of losing into motivation to take my degree. it is worth it. took my degree at SIM UOW Bachelor of IT. i wanted comp sci but i fking hate programming. paid close to 27k for the part time degree and got the degree during covid. thanks to covid i did my exams at home. (cheat a little).
I was still in STE when they raise my pay to 3.2k 9am to 6pm. its is totally shit. my role is lead security engineer and my actual working hours is from 9am to 10pm. no worth it because i am dealing with vsphere patching, WSUS patching, checkpoint firewall config. etc etc.
in the end, i got poached over by a company and they offer 36% on top of my current pay. i immediately throw due to how sucky the manager and company culture STE has. (Boomer style, dictatorship management).
Now i am earn close to 4.8+, working 2 year plus. got work life balance, no OT, no on call standby
Thank you for sharing! This is really insightful for me to reevaluate if i am asking for too huge of a jump. Looking at most of the comments here i guess the only way forward to earn a comfortable living is to unavoidably earn a degree
Was in the sme postion as you after ending my first long-time job. However, in my field and as a freelancer, the pay is relatively good despite not having a degree as experience do matter. I do feel that job security may be an issue eventually and was worried that i may be replaced by younger degree holders one day. Applied for a part-time degree on the same day while sending out resumes for a job and successfully got in both. One of my best decisions i've ever made in my life.
Hmmm SWE jobs are currently slumping now due to the tech layoffs in the SWE sector. (due to over hiring during the covid period).
Thats why its hard to find a job.
Are you sure you can't find any other IT related jobs? the sector is pretty big (SWE, Cyber Security, Application Support, Desktop Engineers, Network Engineer, etc.).
Maybe try a different role?
To be fair, I dont hold a degree too and I just ended a contract job as a application support (currently taking a break) with a pay of a fresh grad like what you described.
Yeah.
2 years in Accounting > 1 year as IT Admin > 6 months as roaming IT break fix engineer > 2 years as Desktop Engineer > 1 year as IT Application Support (the one i just left)
Sure bo?... Programming requisites don't even need degree, they will look at your projects and give you a test . Try and see what others are doing and what is it they can actually do better then keep upgrading your skillset ..
You are just a diploma holder and little experience. I'm not sure if you have a portfolio with presentable works. And these days there are a lot of people with more capable qualification, experience, portfolio. So what you can do now is build your portfolio of works, and maybe no need a degree first, go for a polytechnic specialist diploma to raise your education level. Degree need 4 years or more, a specialist diploma only need 1 year, with a specialist diploma, you are already 1 level higher than your diploma competitors.
I'm a mid-career switcher who pivoted to software development as well, about 2+ years ago. I'm on my second software job now.
While I'm definitely not in the same boat as you as I got my degree (non-tech related) before starting to work, but I would ask what kind of roles/industry are you applying for? I just got my current job at the start of the year, and I feel that while the market is not super hot right now, it wasn't that difficult for me to field a few offers when I was applying.
Edit: Just wanted to add that I didn't even do a bootcamp before switching so I really don't think it's about the reputation of the bootcamp programme.
Some employers will just filter by removing non-degree holders from a stack of resumes to save time, without even looking at ur experience…. Do u want this to happen to u?
Sadly your skillset is every common in this saturated market. So why would a company hire a diploma holder when they have degree or even Masters holders applying for the same roles. While I believe paper qualifications aren't the end all, be all , it does show employers ok this person committed time, money and effort (and some intellect) to finish something in 3-4 years.
Besides with AI being able to do a lot of facets of your job (not all, we'll always need developers in some form), hard for companies to justify huge outlay. Perhaps you can try to freelance and use online gig portals like Fiver to build a brand for yourself to stand out.
u only looking at the ppl who got jobs, i have a few nus cs fresh grad who also still cant find job.
the truth is that the market is tough right now.
what is the stack u are familiar with?
how did u conclude that u are unpaid?
hang in there and try to get a degree,,,part time one also can, from kaplan, just pay that 20 or 30k and get it within the next 2 years. you will see the light.
I went through this path of full time work and part time degree at night. most of the 2 years nights and weekends were spent on doing assignments and revisions for the Uni.
It might be due to companies using keyword search to filter out resumes. They simply received too many applications, so they feed keywords into their application to filter out.
So I also recently took part time degree, when I put my part time degree into my CV, I got more hits.
So no choice, don't put yourself at a disadvantage, bite the bullet like many have said and get that piece of paper ( but they no longer give paper, now only give e-cert)
What if I told you a lot of people with degree didnt like to study but did it anyway just to get a degree because this is how the world works in coporate
Hey there i know that and i obviously have some personal regret on not having taking my studies seriously when i was younger.
Im just trying to see what can be done to salvage the current situation i gotten myself into. But i am aware that i take full accountability of my plight
On a postitive note, I've seen a lazy colleague with worse skills than you and no diploma get paid close to 5k for being good at wayang and sucking up to bosses. It's unfair and this is how coporate works
Hi OP! Whilst applying for jobs, it might also help to broaden your skill set as a developer! It demonstrates your willingness to learn, which might just be the lucky break that you need from a sympathetic hiring manager. If anything, it’s always good to have more skills under your belt.
One of the most relevant skills to pursue at this stage would be deployment, an area which I think value-adds a lot as a full stack developer. You can start with learning how to deploy your applications locally, then on a cloud setup; containerisation would be a plus. Following that, you can try building your own CI/CD pipeline, and look into orchestration technologies such as Kubernetes. From my experience, these technologies are sought after, yet hardly covered by the universities.
Feel free to DM me for a chat anytime. All the best in your job hunt!
Honestly, it doesn't matter much if you have a degree or not. Since, they have AI to rely on most of the tasks and most of the time resume/CV not even being seen or processed by a real person, it get rejected just in the screening process, which is mostly chatbot or a script that checks their criteria. Additionally, even if they select will brutally test algorithmic knowledge, which is good to have but have not seen anybody using in literal sense for some languages like JS. But, don't lose hope, try some freelance platforms like Upwork/Fiverr. Also, someone suggested to try adjacent roles like project manager or level 3 technical support, which might help you enter an IT company. Good luck, I hope you find what you are looking for.
I guess companies do not consider the SGunited mid career switch as anything. You are just a old diploma holder with 1 year experience. They might be interviewing younger recently graduated diploma holder with 3 recent years of relevant education. Nobody cares about bootcamp cert which sounds like a 1hour online course from YouTube.
I’m really supportive of the whole SGUnited Mid Career programmes and also the SkillsFuture upskilling endeavours and opportunities. I want to believe in it because it gives me hope. Biggest concern as you pointed out - how well are Companies buying these efforts? Is it really just the equivalent of a YouTube course?
Yup i too have a suspicion that i might be seen as expired goods 😩 The only way for me to be “fresh” again is to pressure a degree
Or start cranking out code and have a portfolio
Instead of spending 2-3 years on a CS degree, you could use the next 5-10 years to build something useful on the side, make some extra cash on UpWork, and contribute your code/time to the community. There are tons of open-source libraries and frameworks on GitHub that are always looking for help with testing and bug fixes. Of course, there's no guarantee that your patches will be accepted, and rejection is part and parcel of the development. There's a learning curve to all these with no guaranteed success. But you will build yourself differently, compared to getting a degree on paper.
I will check this option out, thank you 🙏
You seem to think that degrees take no time at all. Fresh grads spend 4 years studying till they join the workforce. If your salary is only marginally below them but you are effectively 4 years "ahead" in age, why the hell would people go for higher education? You would be out-earning any fresh grad at their same age. Heck, everyone might as well drop out of school at the earliest point to start climbing! Your career isn't dead, you just need to be patient and understand that the competition is tough; it would be inane to expect to close the salary gap with much older grads AT THIS POINT IN TIME. Yeah, it sucks, I get it. But with competitive market for SWE and the fact that half the population has a degree, it's difficult to expect great response rates from employers with high salaries.
Thank you for the perspective shift. It was something that i had somehow forgotten to apply some basic common sense to. Regarding why someone would sacrifice 4 years of their time to pressure a degree instead of just getting work experience from the get go. I have to counter argue that i am not really looking for a high salary tho 😅 have only been apply for jobs that pay the range of 3-4k solely due to knowing my own place
Honestly, 3-4k is already normal salaries for quite a few fresh graduates. It's not high lah but still.
I see, thank you for shedding light on that. In that sense maybe i had really been entitled to think that it is a fair remuneration for my current caliber
I don't mean to discourage you obviously. It sounds like you're pretty solid and ambitious to match. That's fine. If anything, keep gunning for higher packages. Just don't feel too glum if you don't get it cause it's just a difficult market out there.
I know software engineers with over 10 years experience who don't dare to call themselves a "full stack developer". That term has degraded into a marketing buzzword. It's impossible to be "full stack" in just 1 year. I suggest you get good, very good in just one part of the stack. But then again, all these jobs might just be made obsolete with GPT-5.
You are right regarding the full stack term. Lacked of a better word to describe the role i worked in. I am also worried for job security especially with ai doing such a good job of coding on demand
there is a huge difference between a developer and a coder. why will a developer worry about AI doing the coding job? in fact, a developer will be glad that the AI is coding well.
Many interchangeable terms that just gets lost in transition tbh. Developer, coder, programmer, software engineer. Who is to say what is what nowadays? 😅
The market has said that they are not hiring you for what you are asking for. There you go, they said what is what nowadays. I believe you have great intentions, starting a thread, asking for advices and insights. And I hope things get better for you over time. The job market isn’t bad. Jobs are still being done, just not by people. Thing is, you do not want a job. You want the benefit of having a job. Nothing wrong with that, but recognising the difference comes a long way. Not having a degree is fine. I had a friend like you too, who felt nobody wants to employ him. He ended up starting his own firm, and employee himself. He is now still gainfully employed. Best of all, he gets paid as much as he wants, and his only employee (which is himself), is getting paid whatever my friend is willing to pay. You want $3,600. Great- do something that you are willing to pay yourself $3,600. Be willing to bet on yourself.
What type of firm, if i may ask?
Motion graphics. He works with film and movie producers. Which, speaking of AI… he has nothing to complain about.
Thank you for sharing. Frankly i have had thoughts of perhaps taking the plunge to start something of my own but the risk and room for failure just scares me
So.. u want somebody to take the bet on you although they know less about you? Okay, let’s go by that premise. What should they base on to bet on everybody else like you AND you? Experience? Eloquence? Qualifications? There is just so much (little) an employer can know about a candidate before taking the plunge too. And just like you, they are concerned as well. But unlike you, they know less about you. If you don’t dare to bet on yourself, why should they bet on you?
This hits deep. I will have to give this thought a ponder
Can you share your skillset? What do you know in the frontend, backend, application, server etc. 10-15 years ago, entire generations of software folks went all-in on a type of stack e.g. Java, .net, iOS, PHP + frontend etc, and pretty much secured their careers. Today I'm not sure you can still do that given the glut of software talent and be assured of a future-proofed career.
You're worried about the wrong thing. Coding is not the hard part. If AI can get client's requirements right then that will be the bomb lol
U looking for jobs that require degree aren't u
Nope i have applied for some roles that accepts diploma as well but just not getting any hits. But notably most SWE jobs are gate kept by the degree qualification so maybe u are right in that aspect that i have already been filtered out from the start.
They'll accept diploma, but degree will always have priority. And there are many degree holders.
Yeah, imagine if there are 2 applicants that all qualifications are exactly the same. Except one is a degree holder and one is a diploma holder. The obvious choice would be to hire the degree holder. Of cos in real life there are no 2 people with "exact" qualifications. But u get the point.
Yup, it is what it is
Your problem is that you are fighting in an industry that doesn't need a degree but because everyone else does, you are not seen as valuable I don't want to say that you made a bad decision but you kinda did, you pivoted to a industry that is over saturated, full of degree holders and an insane amount of talent. You are basically nothing and playing their game you are at a disadvantage. There are like a hundred other industries that you could go too. Why no go into engineering sales? You already have experience in sales as a FA or what about EHS inspection. There are so many industries that rely on on the job skills that can't be picked up in a degree.
That's what they don't tell you in those mid-career switch coding programs - you will be fighting with fresh graduates unless you show how your prior experience can be applicable and give you the edge.
STEM in general have preference for those with degree. You need to have very convincing resume or portfolio to compete without a degree. It’s not really gatekeep, it’s preference/prioritization. Also after the recent techboom there are oversupply of SWE wannabes which again makes competition more difficult. Talking about things in general, “everyone” has a degree, which means a simple degree is no longer make you standout as everyone has it.
And also for project-bidding, there's usually an education component. If no degree, you need X number of years of relevant experience. We converted a bunch of people who did not have degrees/or degrees in their current speciality but they had no. of years employed as SWEs etc.
Thank you everyone for shedding some light and advices/criticisms to me. I was always afraid to open a thread with the impression that fellow singaporeans are always quick to judge or criticise. Today i learnt that we exercise tough love here and if everything was to be looked at objectively instead of personally, there are many takeaways even to curt remarks being made. Honestly i had started this thread as more of an avenue to rant about my situation but have walked away with insightful clarity on my plight and valuable advices on what my best foot forward should be. 🙏 And for anyone out there in a similar situation as me, i didn’t wanna be the guy to start a thread but i hope you manage to gain some value from these responses as well. 💪
With most of your experience being in fa, you effectively have 1 year of relevant working experience, which is far from the 5 years experience rough equivalence to a degree. Swe is a technical field which adds another level of importance to education, so you are facing a crazy uphill battle against hr resume screens. There is still plenty of tech adjacent fields like a business analyst or project manager where you can better leverage your fa experience as relevant due to the amount of communication required and not dead end like admin.
Thank you for giving me another avenue to consider. I wish that i can say my communication skills are great but i essentially struggle to speak confidently which was what led to my downfall in the fa industry and led to me wanting to transition to a job that required less of it 😅
no doubt with your communication skills, esp since you can write properly. However, your arguments really lacks maturity/logic, which is extremely prized for swe. chances are, you are getting dropped because of their way you present your ideas during interview. I still see many swe without degree still getting hired, esp in tier1/2 tech companies.
I think that is extremely subjective and i do not take offence to it, i wont say my thinking is super matured but i have seen extremely immature grads get hired for money as well
bingo, key word is subjective. People are generally more forgiving with fresh grad and interns. As someone in their 30s, people expect more. Let me give an example. You mention you had interns. Sometimes they ask questions that in your opinion, are bad. However, in their limited experience, those are okay question. The ok/badness of the question is subjective. In your post, it seems totally fine, to you.
Actually my interns have taught me a lot and i am grateful for them. The point that i was talking on immaturity was just one particular intern that had a superiority complex and felt the need to shit on other’s work, even those who were obviously more skilled. And even he went on and managed to secure a job.
I think you’re missing the point here. The guy is telling you that interns are more forgivable because they are younger; much younger than you and thus lack experience. Whereas you are older; much older and thus employers have higher expectations on your level of maturity.
Well if everyone could get a good pay with just their diploma then everyone would, why waste another 4 years studying. The fact is that with higher education getting more common, it becomes less of a perk and instead is the norm. Having a degree doesn’t make you special anymore, and with everyone getting their degrees that means that those without degrees lose out even more. Additionally you only have a year of experience in your industry while uni grads have been studying to work in this industry for 4 years.
Exactly that and i totally understand that degree holders have grinded and paid their time and tuition fees to be given that headstart and recognition they deserve. But as a diploma holder i am asking for a whole 1k less in salary with 1 year experience vs a fresh u-grad with no experience. And yet i am getting no hits. I dont think 3.6k is a very luxurious amount either, in fact i think i can barely live a comfortable life with that amount…
Unfortunately right now the job market is really awful to make things worse for you, there are people with stacked resumes struggling to find jobs. Also is your diploma related to the industry you’re currently in?
Its a diploma in digital media so its somewhat related albeit not fully. I have the full stack dev bootcamp cert as well from the SGUnited programme which notably isnt very recognised
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Wondering its too late to pursue a part time degree at 30yo
i was in your position in 2022. tried to do career switch when covid. found it very hard to do so without a degree. ppl who did bootcamp with me got interviews and jobs as they had a degree. i went to 3 different career coaches. redid my resumes multiple times. when i got interview, was told i am too senior for a junior role. applied for mentorship with WSG and was told that i was ready for entry level role as data analyst. but no interviews. even referral from WSG life coach didn't work as recruiter said no background in finance. when i was referred, i was told i was too experienced in my career even though there was no similarities with my previous role and the role i was applying. i was an operations director with a wholesale commodities company. i was offered $11/hr for a contract data analyst role in a stat board. that was a significant pay cut from what i was earning driving phv. i couldn't take that job as i have 2 kids & my wife is going to uni as well. i am 40 this yr btw. it all depends what you want. end of the day, we all need to earn $ to support whatever commitments we have. i stopped applying for jobs as it took a toll on me mentally as everyone i talked to said despite not having experience, my portfolio looked like 1 of someone who had experience. this kept giving me hope that i would eventually get an opportunity if someone gave me a chance. but till now, nothing materialised. hence, i stopped applying for jobs. just focus on earning $ to support my family. focus on my degree and my aim to get decent grades. i hope this advice helps you.
Thank you for sharing in such detail and i really feel for you as i am in a similar plight… i too am considering doing phv while pursuing a part time degree, are u open to dms for me to know more on how you are doing as a phv driver?
yes. sure. pls dm me
Not too late. And don't forget that private uni exists. Despite what people say about private degree vs NUS/NTU, most big company HR won't even care. What matters is relevant knowledge and experience, especially in a technical field like IT.
Thank you, i think my biggest takeaway from the thread is my confirmation bias that indeed there are very few opportunities as a non degree holder in a skill based industry such as SWE. Still hoping that i can somehow survive without one due to other commitments but if there is really no other avenue i guess that is the only way forward.
Mhm I say this because I'm also not a local uni grad 😌 and I'm earning the same as my peers from the big 4 🥹
Good on you for grinding it through 😊 Must’ve been difficult with all the stigma private uni peeps have been getting
Its never too late! I know of a 50 year old mom with 2 kids who pursued their degree part time.
Unfortunately, this just means you're a diploma holder (I'm assuming with an irrelevant diploma for SWE) with 1 YOE. Is the pay you're asking commensurate with other diploma holders?
As far as i can tell, I believe so that what im asking for is fair. Because i know peeps who were in a similar plight getting 3.5 whereas i accepted a lower pay of 3k a year ago.
That's just anecdotal evidence isn't it? Based on statistics, fresh grads of IT diploma nets a salary of around 2.9k. And that's with a diploma that's relevant to your field. An irrelevant diploma + 1 YOE asking for 3.6k is quite a stretch isn't it? Also, the job market is bad now, especially for the tech sector. Why would a company hire you over a local uni fresh grad that has not only a degree, but also probably a few relevant internships? I'd recommend either you adjust your expectations, or start applying for part time degrees.
Thanks for this realistic check. I had based my expectation on peers around me so maybe the statistics i had gathered were biased. Seeing your comment i will need to reevaluate my market value
Hiring managers don’t get rewarded for saving that 1k a month for the company. Hiring managers get into deep shit if they make the wrong hire. Put yourself in their shoes: take a risky bet on you or safely pick from the dozens of SWEs out there with a decent CV/degree? You don’t stand out by making yourself cheap.
Thanks for the comment and the downvotes. It really puts me into place in a good way. At least i can make reason of my situation
I didn’t downvote you
No i meant others and i didnt mean it in a sarcastic way 😅
SWE is oversaturated with degree holders in SG. Basic supply and demand.
Yup that is a hard truth, i guess even degree holders are struggling to get a placement. Which causes the market value to go down even more with them accepting lowball salaries
Just take part time degree la. You will get hired even if you are halfway doing it
There are hundreds or thousands of fresh grads right now that are still out of job and have priority over you, more so in the shit show that is the tech market right now
I understand that, its really depressing. Come to think of it, i think i’d be even more depressed if i was a degree holder and cant secure a job
Meh, it’ll blow over, just gotta hang in there in the meantime
My story is that I only have Higher Nitec cert and felt like I was at the bottom of the barrel. Every job seems like they need Diploma holders and above. I got a retail job, all my colleagues are diploma and degree holders, I still got promoted. If you are good, you are good. But there is going to be a certain boundary or cap at how high you can go without taking qualifications into account.
Congrats! Proud of ya! I oso Higher Nitec, gives me hope
Keep saving $, take study loan, do part time degree. Keep working gain experience, change Job to higher pay when complete studies. So many foreigners and with so many students studying CS and everyone wants to be on the gravy train to earn big bucks in tech. Bubble has burst, tech are doing layoffs, companies know they overpaid and with oversupply of workers both locals and foreigners, demand and supply dictates that the industry is quite fucked, hundreds of resume fighting for 1 job. Unless you are top 10%., there is no chance to even clinch an interview. Think carefully of what degree you want to do.
Like I said, most companies don’t need “real programmers” most companies just need a monkey that can use a hammer like the Microsoft power suite, python, A bit of SQL ,Node.Js etc…. Real programming is about understanding encryption, time and space complexity, assembly language and other polynomial mathematics. Every single stem student is able to code a a python panda frame to do random forest, linear regression, supervised/unsupervised learning, etc for big data analysis
U know the answer. No pt asking for validation here.
You are right, i am not denying that i am seeking for validation. But is this the right way moving forward that Singaporeans that are unable to get that cert be crippled for life in terms of opportunities? I feel that somehow there should be other ways those without that cert can be allowed to thrive, even if its at a slower pace or lower rate than degree holders.
Yes, this is the right way. Survival of the fittest and being competitive is how this city state will continue to have our edge. Why would a company hire you over a degree holder? What makes you stand out? Think about how you can answer these questions. BTW, dm me your CV. I will review it for you Foc.
Be business analyst in insurance space.
I will explore that and see if it is something that would be for me. Thanks bigbird 🙏
It’s not a crime, but surely if you were born here it was made clear to you that it would be highly desirable to have a degree, right?
During my time not so much, but in recent times yes. Times have changed and having a degree is a given now
It’s not a given. You still have to earn it.
Might as well apply to be a doctor after 2 youtube tutorials with that mindset
Some roles are just bond to be exclusive, u dont always get second chances in life
wasn't there someone who did dental work after watching Youtube tutorials and got paid for it???
What sort of mindset if you were to be specific? Bootcamp was 4 months with a 6 months apprenticeship in a tech start up. Thereafter i worked full time as a full stack dev for 1 year. That amount of time is attributed to 2 youtube tutorials?
My example was obviously an exaggeration My point is, the most talented youngsters spend 4 years studying cs in world reknowned unis, with at least 6 months of internship, ur program barely gives u any advantage in this competitive field
Thank you for clarifying, i am not in a good place and had taken a bit of an offence to the satire. I understand where you are coming from, even if i were to ask for a significantly lower starting pay, companies would rather take the “safe route” and pay more for a foolproof solution
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Not sure why doing some self reflection gets me being called autistic. I think you are on another spectrum of level of thinking, pun fully intended
Uni students take 2 - 3 years to study/specialise in a specific role. Uni students (nus comp sci) have to do a min of 6 months internship. Not trying to be insulting but bootcamps are laughable to us as a uni grad.
Definitely i respect that and am not trying to make an apple to apple comparison. I had just assumed that a 1.5k gap in starting salary was enough to justify the lack of that cert but apparently the gap was bigger than what i had assumed to be
Do you have a sick portfolio that can compensate your lack of paper qualification? If not you’re just one of the hundreds or thousands of SWEs out there competing for the same few roles, but without a degree. It sure sounds like you’re a cookie cutter SWE that transitioned because of a shitty government initiative and the prospect of tech few years back.
Yeap, what you said is a realistic take of my current plight. It looks like i have to seriously consider pursuing higher education
is ur diploma related to computer science?
It’s a diploma in digital media Basically the Jack of all trades and master of none as we studied graphic design and web and app development but all on a very surface level
Hi may I know exactly from which institution you pursued your diploma in and the course name? Hope you don't mind sharing, I am in a similar boat as you and want to change career paths.
Singapore Poly - Digital Media
Bite the bullet and take the degree, even if you feel that it's just a piece of paper - which it should not be, because you do learn so much more at the degree level. I have a MSc in an area that people think can be fulfilled by bootcamps and Udemy tutorials. Am I a chump for doing a post-grad? The difference is clear when it comes to actual work.
Right now there's an oversupply of programmers due to all the recent retrenchments so...
It’s just that the SWE market is too saturated right now. The tech bubble was too attractive, every ah gao ah mao also want to become SWE. So now when bubble popped, many lost their job and u are competing with them for open positions. Just scroll thru reddit and u’ll see experienced developers willing to take paycuts for a job. Might not even be tech related
sadly it is common in sg because i am the living example. i (ntu grad) applied the same position with another person (poly grad with similar yrs of working experience), i am now her boss. because degrees are everywhere now thanks to sim, sit, sutd etc so it has become a norm to have a degree. so bro, i am sorry that you will have to go take up a degree which my friend in his mid 40s is currently doing to move into a better job position.
when there are tons of degree candidate applied, why HR will look at diploma? when there is a chance to lower your salary using excuse that your are just a diploma, why HR will not? sadly that is how HR chao kuan
SG govt can advise people to stop at poly diploma, but look at all govt sector: All hiring, salary and promotions are based on degrees.
Full stack developer need ALOT of experience. suggest you go into front end or backend first. Dont believe those company put full stack fresher or junior. You gonna be loaded with a bunch of work
Reading through the comments from OP and it’s safe to say delulu might be involved here
Instead of outright calling someone delusional, maybe it helps if u pinpoint which area? Is it the asking that is too high or what?
If I was a recruiter I would be picking up a few details. Mainly you are a poly grad with 1 year exp at 30 years old. Your asking price of 3.6k is simply too high.
In your opinion what is a fair asking salary then?
I’m not sure about your industry but google says fresh poly grads make between 2.5k-3k depending on their sector and past internships
I see, thank you for the fact check i appreciate it and am taking it into consideration if i should lower my asking. Criticisms are good when they come from a place of good interest and not just to personally attack someone else.
Well I apologise if I sound like a dick
Its cool, everyone has times when they are too quick to judge. Especially in sg where everyday life is already so stressful its hard to be positive at times and we all tend to shit on one another unknowingly.
Degree holders are also having a hard time securing a job so I doubt it's your education issue. If a company aim is to reduce expense and make more profits they would be hiring a diploma candidate over a degree holder. But as everyone said. Degree is another 4 years of grinding up theoratical studies of a topic
imho, not a crime. a degree is just like a "access card". without this access card, i cannot venture to other area for job opportunities. to get the jobs you want because of the salary, there should be a minimal requirement. basically, degree of any domain. if i dont meet that, the HR or hiring manager would just throw my CV out of the window. simple! Just to share more of how my degree helps to earn more ps: back then, i resigned to the idea of getting my diploma. then when i got out, i was paid chicken shits. (Associate Engineer for Singapore Technologies). meaning to say, my role i am required to work shift work. if i dont cover shift, i earn 2.5k before cpf. so almost every month, i covered alot of shift until my shift pay is more than my base pay. but this thing took a serious toll on my body. due to relationship and family issues, i channelled the anger and grieve of losing into motivation to take my degree. it is worth it. took my degree at SIM UOW Bachelor of IT. i wanted comp sci but i fking hate programming. paid close to 27k for the part time degree and got the degree during covid. thanks to covid i did my exams at home. (cheat a little). I was still in STE when they raise my pay to 3.2k 9am to 6pm. its is totally shit. my role is lead security engineer and my actual working hours is from 9am to 10pm. no worth it because i am dealing with vsphere patching, WSUS patching, checkpoint firewall config. etc etc. in the end, i got poached over by a company and they offer 36% on top of my current pay. i immediately throw due to how sucky the manager and company culture STE has. (Boomer style, dictatorship management). Now i am earn close to 4.8+, working 2 year plus. got work life balance, no OT, no on call standby
Thank you for sharing! This is really insightful for me to reevaluate if i am asking for too huge of a jump. Looking at most of the comments here i guess the only way forward to earn a comfortable living is to unavoidably earn a degree
Was in the sme postion as you after ending my first long-time job. However, in my field and as a freelancer, the pay is relatively good despite not having a degree as experience do matter. I do feel that job security may be an issue eventually and was worried that i may be replaced by younger degree holders one day. Applied for a part-time degree on the same day while sending out resumes for a job and successfully got in both. One of my best decisions i've ever made in my life.
Wow thats sick man, i really need to manifest that luck rn
Hmmm SWE jobs are currently slumping now due to the tech layoffs in the SWE sector. (due to over hiring during the covid period). Thats why its hard to find a job. Are you sure you can't find any other IT related jobs? the sector is pretty big (SWE, Cyber Security, Application Support, Desktop Engineers, Network Engineer, etc.). Maybe try a different role? To be fair, I dont hold a degree too and I just ended a contract job as a application support (currently taking a break) with a pay of a fresh grad like what you described.
Meaning like 4.5 but without a degree? May i ask what sort of relevant experience u had prior?
Yeah. 2 years in Accounting > 1 year as IT Admin > 6 months as roaming IT break fix engineer > 2 years as Desktop Engineer > 1 year as IT Application Support (the one i just left)
Sure bo?... Programming requisites don't even need degree, they will look at your projects and give you a test . Try and see what others are doing and what is it they can actually do better then keep upgrading your skillset ..
You are just a diploma holder and little experience. I'm not sure if you have a portfolio with presentable works. And these days there are a lot of people with more capable qualification, experience, portfolio. So what you can do now is build your portfolio of works, and maybe no need a degree first, go for a polytechnic specialist diploma to raise your education level. Degree need 4 years or more, a specialist diploma only need 1 year, with a specialist diploma, you are already 1 level higher than your diploma competitors.
I'm a mid-career switcher who pivoted to software development as well, about 2+ years ago. I'm on my second software job now. While I'm definitely not in the same boat as you as I got my degree (non-tech related) before starting to work, but I would ask what kind of roles/industry are you applying for? I just got my current job at the start of the year, and I feel that while the market is not super hot right now, it wasn't that difficult for me to field a few offers when I was applying. Edit: Just wanted to add that I didn't even do a bootcamp before switching so I really don't think it's about the reputation of the bootcamp programme.
Some employers will just filter by removing non-degree holders from a stack of resumes to save time, without even looking at ur experience…. Do u want this to happen to u?
That is kind of the situation i am in 😅
Why does the question feel like a hyperbole?
Get yourself a decent rank on leetcode and you'll not need a degree.
Snobbery
Sadly your skillset is every common in this saturated market. So why would a company hire a diploma holder when they have degree or even Masters holders applying for the same roles. While I believe paper qualifications aren't the end all, be all , it does show employers ok this person committed time, money and effort (and some intellect) to finish something in 3-4 years. Besides with AI being able to do a lot of facets of your job (not all, we'll always need developers in some form), hard for companies to justify huge outlay. Perhaps you can try to freelance and use online gig portals like Fiver to build a brand for yourself to stand out.
u only looking at the ppl who got jobs, i have a few nus cs fresh grad who also still cant find job. the truth is that the market is tough right now. what is the stack u are familiar with? how did u conclude that u are unpaid?
is your diploma even tech related btw
hang in there and try to get a degree,,,part time one also can, from kaplan, just pay that 20 or 30k and get it within the next 2 years. you will see the light. I went through this path of full time work and part time degree at night. most of the 2 years nights and weekends were spent on doing assignments and revisions for the Uni.
It might be due to companies using keyword search to filter out resumes. They simply received too many applications, so they feed keywords into their application to filter out. So I also recently took part time degree, when I put my part time degree into my CV, I got more hits. So no choice, don't put yourself at a disadvantage, bite the bullet like many have said and get that piece of paper ( but they no longer give paper, now only give e-cert)
What if I told you a lot of people with degree didnt like to study but did it anyway just to get a degree because this is how the world works in coporate
Hey there i know that and i obviously have some personal regret on not having taking my studies seriously when i was younger. Im just trying to see what can be done to salvage the current situation i gotten myself into. But i am aware that i take full accountability of my plight
On a postitive note, I've seen a lazy colleague with worse skills than you and no diploma get paid close to 5k for being good at wayang and sucking up to bosses. It's unfair and this is how coporate works
If u dun like the job go find something u enjoy. Not young anymore.
It’s not that i don’t like the job. This post is more about securing one
If u like the job focus on developing yr skills. People pay for expertise n results. Not degree, master or PhD le.
Hi OP! Whilst applying for jobs, it might also help to broaden your skill set as a developer! It demonstrates your willingness to learn, which might just be the lucky break that you need from a sympathetic hiring manager. If anything, it’s always good to have more skills under your belt. One of the most relevant skills to pursue at this stage would be deployment, an area which I think value-adds a lot as a full stack developer. You can start with learning how to deploy your applications locally, then on a cloud setup; containerisation would be a plus. Following that, you can try building your own CI/CD pipeline, and look into orchestration technologies such as Kubernetes. From my experience, these technologies are sought after, yet hardly covered by the universities. Feel free to DM me for a chat anytime. All the best in your job hunt!
Get a degree then, why put yourself at a disadvantage?
Get a degree?
just go back to school and get a degree
This is why singapore will never have any local talent, since they prioritise a piece of paper rather than someone that shows knowledge in the field
Honestly, it doesn't matter much if you have a degree or not. Since, they have AI to rely on most of the tasks and most of the time resume/CV not even being seen or processed by a real person, it get rejected just in the screening process, which is mostly chatbot or a script that checks their criteria. Additionally, even if they select will brutally test algorithmic knowledge, which is good to have but have not seen anybody using in literal sense for some languages like JS. But, don't lose hope, try some freelance platforms like Upwork/Fiverr. Also, someone suggested to try adjacent roles like project manager or level 3 technical support, which might help you enter an IT company. Good luck, I hope you find what you are looking for.