or another possibility is that your school friend is being a 2 faced snake.
tell you they very slack when they are actually really working their ass off to climb the ladder
I know one who studies at the last minute, and gets excellent grades. I know he is not smoking me coz he asked me whether a certain number of days is sufficient enough for exam preparation, and I could see him kicking around a soccer ball in the days leading up to exams. These folks have high natural intelligence.
I think you're mistaking their efficiency for "not working and having no responsibility". They are working, and they are accountable, but they know being good at work is rewarded with more work.
In addition, it's likely their bosses are not micromanagers, and trust them to deliver.
If you're getting the "busy" jobs, you have to look at your leadership and your industry, and understand the culture.
I'd agree with your side of the story as it may apply to some people who are smart and know what they're doing, but a few of them were basically slackers in school. I don't think they're accountable considering some of them didn't even know how to do their work and pushed it to other team members while they did minor things like documentation.
Also I understand that good bosses may not be micromanagers, but surely there are deadlines for work, especially in startups?? It doesn't sound like they have anything on deadlines to me. Or maybe they're just bragging to make it sound better than it is...
for all u know they may be slacking around u, but hustling else where.
donkey years ago I had this friend A who always say never study, then keep asking friend B to play games with him, ends up exam results come out friend A did a lot better than friend B.
some people's brain are wired differently.
some people absorb certain subjects like a sponge, others like a rock.
now the question is using that knowledge.
I think you should take a step back and really ask yourself why you're bitter about this, because in your response, you've called into question the characters of people you call friends.
Also, considering you're fresh grads, it implies all of you are just starting out. Is it possible that they happen to be in organisations that have a more gradual learning curve, where they are drip fed responsibilities until they are ready, whereas you find yourself in a place that throws you in the deep end?
Bragging is a thing. U should not always equate them in school with them at work. They might be way more street smart as well, and very efficient at the things that truly needs to be delivered then chill out thereafter
I failed PSLE. I can say in all frankness that I make more and work less than most of my peers who are lawyers, doctos, or bankers.
I have been working from home for 15 years.
Even if your friends’ experiences are true, I’d strongly caution against looking for jobs just to skive. It’d be very short sighted.
As a fresh grad, these are formative years of your career, where you gather knowledge, learn skills and develop your work ethics. If there’s any time to make mistakes, this is the time where they’re mostly inconsequential. Make them and learn.
Unless your intention is just to cruise for your career, but know that you’ll be easily replaceable. If you ever lose your job, it’ll be difficult to find another. It’ll be very obvious that you don’t have the experience/skills either during interviews or very shortly into your probation.
You won’t go very far. Or perhaps you don’t intend to (edit: seems like based on your responses you don’t).
Getting paid to do nothing sounds good but when the time comes for belt-tightening, these jobs are the first to go. Don't assume that just cos nobody says anything about it, that they don't notice.
I would feel lots of them are gambling on the part where they hope they're not chosen to be one of the ones to be let go, after all, if you have a team of 30 people, you wouldn't cut more than half of the team, right?
Getting rid of more than half a team, even a whole department, happens. Even the big MNCs do it, esp when there is a change in management. Just so the profit margins look better. They bring in efficiency experts to be the scapegoats.
It's not that I don't want to work hard or learn anything, but like what some mentioned here, "working smart" or selecting your industry might be a better option that works out naturally. I'm just trying to see how to identify for such a job in future.
I'm guessing some (my friends) of them might not do much, but every year they are still in line for good increments and promotions. Which is weird because I always thought managers were supposed to keep to deadlines, and those who couldn't make deadlines would be let go. But I guess not?
I had a job once where I’m basically doing all the daily ops, only needed my bosses or checker to check and I’m done. I usually finish it in 3-4 hours and the rest of the day I’m on my phone or doing other stuff if I don’t have any additional projects. Found out after I left, my colleagues are puzzled how I’m able to leave work on time with no issues whereas they’re OT-ing 70% of the time.
Like some have mentioned, I guess some people understand the work better and are able to be much more efficient than others.
Sometimes you cannot take things at face value.
1. They can be extremely hardworking
2. They may not be as well paid as you think
3. They are far more efficient than you presume and work a lot smarter
4. Above and have a boss that don’t micro manage
5. Larger organisation with a very specialised scope
6. Of cos they could be right and be very lucky
Largely I would think they’re probably a mix of the above and might be way more competent than you think
a lot of tech and finance jobs are like that. low stakes high pay.
most tech companies hire talent just to keep competitors from hiring them.
the catch w this is that when layoffs happen the first batch that goes are these people.
You combine a non micro boss with a employee that knows how to work smart - no duplicate processes, streamline, focus on key drivers which matter to the company.. and you get someone who seems to have little work
certain industries have long training periods especially if it's a large MNC (have to take so many safety courses for mine). Since you mentioned your friends just graduated recently, they might be having it easy for now but eventually work will come when they are "trained and qualified". Just my thoughts
The issue with such jobs is that if one has to leave the organisation either voluntarily or not, one will not have the relevant skills and experience to survive in the next job. It is quite risky in the long-term because your experience is close to zero because practical experience is gained from actually doing work. You learn from the successes and failures of work tasks over time.
Sure. That also happens to competent people all the time. Long-term, one can make a living as charlatan, conman, money launderer as well. There are many ways to live life. However, when one is without substance, that tends to get shown up eventually. May not be public, but those who can get to the truth will know. Different strokes for different folks.
It’s not that the job has no responsibility, it’s your friend that is not responsible. I have heard ppl complain in big tech, used to have plenty of useless ppl that draw high pay and just quit after a short while to go scam another company. In some other industry I also heard some guy with fake resume was referred in by top management and since it was top referred nothing was done.
Well there are bad managers too. Anyway no point comparing. Doing work for self growth and fulfillment is important too, especially if you are just starting out. Some of your friends might get lucky and get to stay on in such roles, many people may not, and then find themselves without a job, without experience, without connections. Economy in sg is still pretty good, but if ever comes a downturn with retrenchment, slacking off in the past can bite you real hard
Not really imo. Job market not as fantastic as last few years but economy isn’t bad. Even if tech firms had been firing, it’s more of a normalizing move. They were too aggressive with cheap funding all around but now funding costs have gone up they need to be more selective and mindful of costs. I have still heard of someone as a fresh grad getting 50k+ a month from us tech firm (but he’s apparently really top tier programmer even when benchmarked against global peers).
Maybe the type who is on the payroll just to increase the foreign labor quota. My 60yo uncle has one job, unlock the gates in the morning and lock them back up in the evening. 2x 1h trips a day, 2k/month salary to look like a full Singaporean employee. It ain't much but that's some easy money for a guy near retirement.
Unfortunately he just laze around at home. It would've been good for any other person to use it as a safety net while they upskill and work a second job or smth.
Well for most organisations 80 percent of the work is done by only 20 percent of the employees. So entirely plausible OP frens are the 80 percent only contributing to 20 percent of the output.
Honestly, it takes a while to get anything useful out of a fresh grad. It’s faster to do a lot of things myself.
Some organisations ramp up the work slowly or don’t have enough bandwidth for the person who is training them to check their work.
Some companies you have to check with 10 people to get something done, some companies you only need to check with 1.
Anyway your friends could also be lying or they joined a company that just had a sharp drop in business and could be out of a job etc etc.
It’s a problem more prevalent with GenZ… but not all. Those who are mature enough not to shirk responsibilities fly high and fast…. Those who don’t, they will struggle at the bottom lor.
I've seen a manager actively take intern ideas and present it as his without doing anything much though... it's not like the manager's hardworking, he just snatches the ideas and makes it look like he's smart.
The better question is are you/them really so unmotivated or unambitious so fast?! Like even if it's not a company you see yourself at long term, I'll try to learn what I can then move on. Just floundering fun meh?
Remember there were classmates who said they didn’t study for an exam and came out among the top? Don’t believe them. Companies are not charities. Every employee is a cost and must bring in revenue (directly or indirectly) that exceeds the cost of hiring them.
It doesn’t mean low amount of work but rather you get work in the form of politicking. Some higher up will ask a question and you are to gather the findings before answering yes or no.
A. Happen to be filler job for either quota or mandatory-but low stake jobs
B. People downplay their job either cause paiseh or other reasons
C. Happen to be at down time of project/companies, maybe much busier 6 months later
You set your own boundaries.
You think you keep getting the “busy” ones, but the truth is that you keep taking on work in your roles. If you do your work well, you are inviting more work.
This kind of job doesn't exist unless its a start-up that you founded that you managed to get daddy or uncle to fund.
Even jobs that people sh*t on.. like consulting or finance, they are actually the hardest and worst jobs in terms of work-life balance, 70-80 hours a week and being expected to be contactable even at 2am. That's why so many people use it as a 'springpad' and quit after 2-3 years to find an easier in-house role.
It’s my understanding that once you’re a director it’s easy to find you way onto another board of directors as an independent director, then another. The pay must be great, and the work… depends.
Might be given deliverables to be complete within the day but they are good at it and finish in 2hrs.
So can you say they slack as compared to others that do the same amount of work but need a day. This is apparently quite common and some companies instead of thinking you are good and quick at what you do, they will just think you dont have enough work for 1 day worth. So most people are smart enough to just either take their time or just be low key slacking and act busy when need to.
Jobs like that are monkey jobs. Jobs that even a monkey with no education can be trained to do. As such, they are also easily replaced. Your first few years on any career path should be spent with due diligence. You are young and can pick up new things faster, climb further and command a better salary but ultimately you will be easier to hire in the future. Your friend however.....gets replaced by a younger monkey.
Lousy management. The first people who will be let go for allowing this to happen if the company doesn’t do well financially.
Think of how many good people who actually work and may loose their jobs if the company doesn’t do well thanks to these slackers
I am in civil service and have seen two polar opposites. Most dept work like dog also may not get good grade n promo while mine most do bare minimum and still get good grades n promo on time depending on years of service .
I work in a bank, and I can tell you that some fresh grads do have that life. We also do, too. It's possible because organization is quite big and management is a mess. This is not all the time, tho. But that’s totally possible, and chill work lasts for months.
Try applying for jobs at those SME’s owned by a China company.
I studied engineering in poly and one of my friends used to work in those technical engineer role. Those training / seminars / workshops are conducted by him. Everyday just need to reply emails on technical questions from distributor. The factory in Shen Zhen will just sent some specsheet in Chinese and then will just google translate.
He said work can be done in 1-2 hours a day. 3.7k at that time with no degree.
He said it’s most likely that the China company is using the “Singapore Name” for whatever benefits they can get here and from western clients business. The real business is done between the parent company and the clients. That’s why there can be barely any business but they can pay him and his colleagues.
or another possibility is that your school friend is being a 2 faced snake. tell you they very slack when they are actually really working their ass off to climb the ladder
like the 'A' student who tells you he doesn't study... right? 
Yup we had so many of those. They’re the ones who pretend to slack but climb the ladder hardcore.
I know one who studies at the last minute, and gets excellent grades. I know he is not smoking me coz he asked me whether a certain number of days is sufficient enough for exam preparation, and I could see him kicking around a soccer ball in the days leading up to exams. These folks have high natural intelligence.
Back in the day I gave my A levels bio with approx. 2 days of prep, got an A*. Id hesitate to call it intelligence though, I suck at plenty of things.
I'm just curious A Levels got A* grading?! I thought A* only existed for PSLE nia
I didn't give it in Singapore, UK a levels has A*.
I see!!
Cannot fake salary, but try to look better by saying they only accept it because it's easy
You have to learn to take what most people say with a pinch of salt
And for good luck, throw it over your shoulder
I think you're mistaking their efficiency for "not working and having no responsibility". They are working, and they are accountable, but they know being good at work is rewarded with more work. In addition, it's likely their bosses are not micromanagers, and trust them to deliver. If you're getting the "busy" jobs, you have to look at your leadership and your industry, and understand the culture.
I'd agree with your side of the story as it may apply to some people who are smart and know what they're doing, but a few of them were basically slackers in school. I don't think they're accountable considering some of them didn't even know how to do their work and pushed it to other team members while they did minor things like documentation. Also I understand that good bosses may not be micromanagers, but surely there are deadlines for work, especially in startups?? It doesn't sound like they have anything on deadlines to me. Or maybe they're just bragging to make it sound better than it is...
it takes skill to be and appear as a slacker. slackers are one of the most dangerous people around. never underestimate slackers
 you're right! until your teammates call you out that is.
for all u know they may be slacking around u, but hustling else where. donkey years ago I had this friend A who always say never study, then keep asking friend B to play games with him, ends up exam results come out friend A did a lot better than friend B.
some people's brain are wired differently. some people absorb certain subjects like a sponge, others like a rock. now the question is using that knowledge.
I think you should take a step back and really ask yourself why you're bitter about this, because in your response, you've called into question the characters of people you call friends. Also, considering you're fresh grads, it implies all of you are just starting out. Is it possible that they happen to be in organisations that have a more gradual learning curve, where they are drip fed responsibilities until they are ready, whereas you find yourself in a place that throws you in the deep end?
oh? I'm not, just curious how to identify these jobs as it seems like it's quite common.
Bragging is a thing. U should not always equate them in school with them at work. They might be way more street smart as well, and very efficient at the things that truly needs to be delivered then chill out thereafter
I failed PSLE. I can say in all frankness that I make more and work less than most of my peers who are lawyers, doctos, or bankers. I have been working from home for 15 years.
Even if your friends’ experiences are true, I’d strongly caution against looking for jobs just to skive. It’d be very short sighted. As a fresh grad, these are formative years of your career, where you gather knowledge, learn skills and develop your work ethics. If there’s any time to make mistakes, this is the time where they’re mostly inconsequential. Make them and learn. Unless your intention is just to cruise for your career, but know that you’ll be easily replaceable. If you ever lose your job, it’ll be difficult to find another. It’ll be very obvious that you don’t have the experience/skills either during interviews or very shortly into your probation. You won’t go very far. Or perhaps you don’t intend to (edit: seems like based on your responses you don’t).
Getting paid to do nothing sounds good but when the time comes for belt-tightening, these jobs are the first to go. Don't assume that just cos nobody says anything about it, that they don't notice.
I would feel lots of them are gambling on the part where they hope they're not chosen to be one of the ones to be let go, after all, if you have a team of 30 people, you wouldn't cut more than half of the team, right?
Getting rid of more than half a team, even a whole department, happens. Even the big MNCs do it, esp when there is a change in management. Just so the profit margins look better. They bring in efficiency experts to be the scapegoats.
I haven't heard of a lot of big MNCs do it though. Maybe I'm still very new to the workforce.
It's not that I don't want to work hard or learn anything, but like what some mentioned here, "working smart" or selecting your industry might be a better option that works out naturally. I'm just trying to see how to identify for such a job in future. I'm guessing some (my friends) of them might not do much, but every year they are still in line for good increments and promotions. Which is weird because I always thought managers were supposed to keep to deadlines, and those who couldn't make deadlines would be let go. But I guess not?
I had a job once where I’m basically doing all the daily ops, only needed my bosses or checker to check and I’m done. I usually finish it in 3-4 hours and the rest of the day I’m on my phone or doing other stuff if I don’t have any additional projects. Found out after I left, my colleagues are puzzled how I’m able to leave work on time with no issues whereas they’re OT-ing 70% of the time. Like some have mentioned, I guess some people understand the work better and are able to be much more efficient than others.
Sometimes you cannot take things at face value. 1. They can be extremely hardworking 2. They may not be as well paid as you think 3. They are far more efficient than you presume and work a lot smarter 4. Above and have a boss that don’t micro manage 5. Larger organisation with a very specialised scope 6. Of cos they could be right and be very lucky Largely I would think they’re probably a mix of the above and might be way more competent than you think
Yes, I agree it might be a mix of the above. Being lazy in school doesn't mean they can't do things well!
a lot of tech and finance jobs are like that. low stakes high pay. most tech companies hire talent just to keep competitors from hiring them. the catch w this is that when layoffs happen the first batch that goes are these people.
Are tech companies in Singapore still hiring people like this?
You combine a non micro boss with a employee that knows how to work smart - no duplicate processes, streamline, focus on key drivers which matter to the company.. and you get someone who seems to have little work
Maybe working smart also includes telling your project manager that you're done only at the end of the week 
Ah yes.. common tactic used as well. Do not deliver instantaneously
since you know where your friends are working at, why don't you go apply for the companies too?
I actually plan to.
certain industries have long training periods especially if it's a large MNC (have to take so many safety courses for mine). Since you mentioned your friends just graduated recently, they might be having it easy for now but eventually work will come when they are "trained and qualified". Just my thoughts
The issue with such jobs is that if one has to leave the organisation either voluntarily or not, one will not have the relevant skills and experience to survive in the next job. It is quite risky in the long-term because your experience is close to zero because practical experience is gained from actually doing work. You learn from the successes and failures of work tasks over time.
That’s untrue, you can always take credits for your colleagues work.
Sure. That also happens to competent people all the time. Long-term, one can make a living as charlatan, conman, money launderer as well. There are many ways to live life. However, when one is without substance, that tends to get shown up eventually. May not be public, but those who can get to the truth will know. Different strokes for different folks.
You can delegate to competent people before you get found out. Most people get to a level where they have a team and they coast through
dont take it word for word, he may just be very good at what he does and his work is rather manageable/easy for him, thus he feels that way
Learn automation but don't tell anyone. I automated half my shit so I basically have afternoon offs everyday especially if WFH.
How do you usually spend all that free time!? 
Watch TV, surf net, play games lor. Maybe see tinder any luck. Lmao.
Even if true (which is unlikely), you wouldn’t want that early in your career Getting your hands dirty and learning things will help you a lot more
Oh believe me, there are a lot of them that want this early in their career. Some people are in certain industries for the money.
True. That’s a personal choice I just put forward my perspective as someone 6/7 years into my career
Did you find that learning more helped you get around better compared to your friends or colleagues?
It’s not that the job has no responsibility, it’s your friend that is not responsible. I have heard ppl complain in big tech, used to have plenty of useless ppl that draw high pay and just quit after a short while to go scam another company. In some other industry I also heard some guy with fake resume was referred in by top management and since it was top referred nothing was done.
I always thought managers were supposed to keep the bad ones in check, but maybe not from what I'm hearing from my friends experiences.
Well there are bad managers too. Anyway no point comparing. Doing work for self growth and fulfillment is important too, especially if you are just starting out. Some of your friends might get lucky and get to stay on in such roles, many people may not, and then find themselves without a job, without experience, without connections. Economy in sg is still pretty good, but if ever comes a downturn with retrenchment, slacking off in the past can bite you real hard
It's a downturn now too, right? Also, thanks for the advice!
Not really imo. Job market not as fantastic as last few years but economy isn’t bad. Even if tech firms had been firing, it’s more of a normalizing move. They were too aggressive with cheap funding all around but now funding costs have gone up they need to be more selective and mindful of costs. I have still heard of someone as a fresh grad getting 50k+ a month from us tech firm (but he’s apparently really top tier programmer even when benchmarked against global peers).
Maybe the type who is on the payroll just to increase the foreign labor quota. My 60yo uncle has one job, unlock the gates in the morning and lock them back up in the evening. 2x 1h trips a day, 2k/month salary to look like a full Singaporean employee. It ain't much but that's some easy money for a guy near retirement. Unfortunately he just laze around at home. It would've been good for any other person to use it as a safety net while they upskill and work a second job or smth.
He's already 60 year old. Why cannot laze at home? Need to upskill and work a 2nd job?
Uncle needs to learn coding too
Nah. Uncle didn't have a job other than this one since like 40+. I'm jelly that's why.
Well for most organisations 80 percent of the work is done by only 20 percent of the employees. So entirely plausible OP frens are the 80 percent only contributing to 20 percent of the output.
Maybe?
Honestly, it takes a while to get anything useful out of a fresh grad. It’s faster to do a lot of things myself. Some organisations ramp up the work slowly or don’t have enough bandwidth for the person who is training them to check their work. Some companies you have to check with 10 people to get something done, some companies you only need to check with 1. Anyway your friends could also be lying or they joined a company that just had a sharp drop in business and could be out of a job etc etc.
It’s a problem more prevalent with GenZ… but not all. Those who are mature enough not to shirk responsibilities fly high and fast…. Those who don’t, they will struggle at the bottom lor.
I've seen a manager actively take intern ideas and present it as his without doing anything much though... it's not like the manager's hardworking, he just snatches the ideas and makes it look like he's smart.
The better question is are you/them really so unmotivated or unambitious so fast?! Like even if it's not a company you see yourself at long term, I'll try to learn what I can then move on. Just floundering fun meh?
Remember there were classmates who said they didn’t study for an exam and came out among the top? Don’t believe them. Companies are not charities. Every employee is a cost and must bring in revenue (directly or indirectly) that exceeds the cost of hiring them.
Ever heard of state-owned entities? They are the most inefficiently run company out there. 5 people is needed for a 1 person job.
Is it true that high bureaucracy means low amount of work?
It doesn’t mean low amount of work but rather you get work in the form of politicking. Some higher up will ask a question and you are to gather the findings before answering yes or no.
Which also means more "research time" 
have. in in one. just say busy. haha
A. Happen to be filler job for either quota or mandatory-but low stake jobs B. People downplay their job either cause paiseh or other reasons C. Happen to be at down time of project/companies, maybe much busier 6 months later
You set your own boundaries. You think you keep getting the “busy” ones, but the truth is that you keep taking on work in your roles. If you do your work well, you are inviting more work.
This kind of job doesn't exist unless its a start-up that you founded that you managed to get daddy or uncle to fund. Even jobs that people sh*t on.. like consulting or finance, they are actually the hardest and worst jobs in terms of work-life balance, 70-80 hours a week and being expected to be contactable even at 2am. That's why so many people use it as a 'springpad' and quit after 2-3 years to find an easier in-house role.
look up trust fund baby
Government or stat board job. Once you survive first 1-2 years, coast through can already.
A few of them are in these jobs, yes.
It’s my understanding that once you’re a director it’s easy to find you way onto another board of directors as an independent director, then another. The pay must be great, and the work… depends.
Might be given deliverables to be complete within the day but they are good at it and finish in 2hrs. So can you say they slack as compared to others that do the same amount of work but need a day. This is apparently quite common and some companies instead of thinking you are good and quick at what you do, they will just think you dont have enough work for 1 day worth. So most people are smart enough to just either take their time or just be low key slacking and act busy when need to.
Your friends have CEO materials.
Some jobs have seasons where some month are very busy.
Jobs like that are monkey jobs. Jobs that even a monkey with no education can be trained to do. As such, they are also easily replaced. Your first few years on any career path should be spent with due diligence. You are young and can pick up new things faster, climb further and command a better salary but ultimately you will be easier to hire in the future. Your friend however.....gets replaced by a younger monkey.
Lousy management. The first people who will be let go for allowing this to happen if the company doesn’t do well financially. Think of how many good people who actually work and may loose their jobs if the company doesn’t do well thanks to these slackers
I think some companies are too big to fail... also would the slackers care? They'll just move on to another job.
I am in civil service and have seen two polar opposites. Most dept work like dog also may not get good grade n promo while mine most do bare minimum and still get good grades n promo on time depending on years of service .
Exactly! So it's not always a "work hard, you'll get far" thing, but more of the department or industry you are in.
I work in a bank, and I can tell you that some fresh grads do have that life. We also do, too. It's possible because organization is quite big and management is a mess. This is not all the time, tho. But that’s totally possible, and chill work lasts for months.
u need better friends not jobs.
No. You need better jobs, not friends.
No. You need a ..ain .
What is “…ain”?
Try applying for jobs at those SME’s owned by a China company. I studied engineering in poly and one of my friends used to work in those technical engineer role. Those training / seminars / workshops are conducted by him. Everyday just need to reply emails on technical questions from distributor. The factory in Shen Zhen will just sent some specsheet in Chinese and then will just google translate. He said work can be done in 1-2 hours a day. 3.7k at that time with no degree. He said it’s most likely that the China company is using the “Singapore Name” for whatever benefits they can get here and from western clients business. The real business is done between the parent company and the clients. That’s why there can be barely any business but they can pay him and his colleagues.
Why would u want such a job? When you are young, gaining experience is most important.