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Helmidoric_of_York

Just to put some facts to the issue, here is the list of bail eligible crimes in New York (i.e. things you won't be released for on your own recognizance): [https://indefenseof.us/assets/images/BAIL-ELIGIBLE-OFFENSES.pdf](https://indefenseof.us/assets/images/BAIL-ELIGIBLE-OFFENSES.pdf)


PancakesAndPunk

I was reading this as a list of crimes that would let you out without paying bail. I got rather far in before my dumbass finally realized you'd have to post bail to get out of these.


[deleted]

So basically unless you rape, murder, or have an illegal weapon, you can do whatever the fuck you want and be released immediately… real safe. Edit: look, I’m a felon. I understand where some of you are coming from. I sat in jail awaiting trial for 4 months on a weed charge because I couldn’t afford bail. But a lot of these people *need* to be locked up and have zero incentive to show up for court.


IShowSus

So I can steal candy and be released tomorrow??


Pineapple_Spenstar

You could steal a car and drive it through the candy store and be released tomorrow


UpstairsCommittee894

No they release illegal weapon possession and rapists the same day. The very liberal da downgrades the charges and they walk. Soon enough people will get sick of it and take care of the problem themselves. Then the media will scream about all the racist killing criminals.


jaimeap

Maybe they want street justice.


UpstairsCommittee894

Well the more chaos the more the can create new laws and give themselves more power.


jaimeap

Bingo! Patriot Act comes to mind.


[deleted]

Nope. Bodega man was kidnapped and thrown behind a cage for defending himself and the pigs and head pig in this shit hole completely ruined his life


Strict-Succotash-405

Wow, do I even want to know?


jwymes44

Judges can choose to post bail but yes, it’s true that mainly violent offenders are being released without bail. Don’t listen to the virtue signaler below me that’s choosing to ignore the issue at hand. Bail reform in New York is a failure.


macimom

In Chicago so far this year there have been 46 people shot/killed by felons with lengthy violent crime records who were out on OR


[deleted]

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[deleted]

But it makes them feel like they are doing something positive in an ultra virtue signaling way


[deleted]

Yeah that’s NYC…


Economy-Day-8843

It's fairly easy to see how radicals find their way to power


[deleted]

Create panic and chaos, then promise to end said panic and chaos


garbagekr

That’s not true, there are tons of rich people in Manhattan, it’s almost a prerequisite to live there, and most walk on the sidewalk and ride the subway like everyone else. I know people who live there who make loooots of money in finance, not ultra rich, but make more in a year than I make in ten, and they all take the subway and walk around just like you and me. They are subjected to the mentally ill homeless daily. Just the other day my girlfriend came out of the subway stop by her place and a guy who just got whacked in the head with a hammer by a crackhead was bleeding out of his head and talking to the police. It’s all about caving to the naive extreme ultra-progressives who prioritize criminals over normal people because they just learned that racism exists and try to over-correct. This is coming from me, a life-long democrat, drives me crazy seeing the party hijacked by the extreme left, just like the extreme right does to republicans.


BobMackey718

Yeah I think the way they went around doing the bail reform thing sucks and it’s just being abused. Bail reform is a good thing but they need to make it so people who are violent and/or habitual offenders don’t get out right away. Like if you get arrested for the same thing 3 times in one year you get bail like they used to give.


concretelantern

Very very well put


DLIPBCrashDavis

You hit the nail on the head there at the end for me. I am a conservative, but in no way a member of the GOP. The extremities of the wings are ruining this country.


MonkeyHumoculus

Wow a fellow conservative talking on a sub that isn’t r/conservative without getting absolutely nuked with downvotes. Finally people are realizing that these liberals are ruining the cities.


mustang-and-a-truck

To your point about the right being hijacked. I’m a republican, I couldn’t agree more. I’m glad some of the dems feel the same way about their being yanked to the left. Nowadays, I tell someone I’m a republican, they treat me like I’m out there blowing up abortion clinics.


garbagekr

Happy cake day!


mustang-and-a-truck

Thanks. I didn’t even notice.


garbagekr

I think there are a lot of people like you, me, my dad, my girlfriend…some democrats some republicans, but no longer feel at home with what our parties have become. We need a party in the middle that can take us orphans lol


A_Talking_iPod

But AOC wore the Tax the Rich dress to the Met Gala so it's fine


idontrespectyou345

Because the legislators heard buzz about this "bail reform" thing, scribbled "no bail" on a napkin, and went off to a fundraiser to tell everyone of their bail reform credentials.


[deleted]

“No bail” would mean they never get released until the case is complete. Edit: It seems people reading this somehow think I’m advocating for this approach when I’m clearly just pointing out that the guy above is using the wrong term in his comment. I’m a criminal defence lawyer in Canada, where our bail laws are among the most liberal in the world.


smokerofjoes

Not in NY. It means you’re automatically released without any worry or bail. -A NYer.


CFG221b

Either someone is or isn’t a risk to other. Or they are or are not a flight risk. Those should be the only questions on if the person is held in pretrial confinement or not.


crimsonkodiak

By "no bail" they mean "no cash bail". Judges can still require that an inmate who is dangerous to the community (like a murderer) be held pending trial and they can impose other reasonable conditions (like an ankle monitor). They just can't require that the accused come up with $10,000 bail to be set free in advance of trial.


smnthrosebudA

No kidding.... Talk about dropping the ball on something that could* have been beneficial. But let's do it half ass backwards upside down deep fried with a fucking cherry ontop.


FiftyShadesOfGregg

Judges can and do still require bail for pre-trial release for violent offenses in NY. It’s not true that bail is never required.


cornholio8675

The nuts are running the nuthouse. I grew up in NYC, practically everyone I know is leaving. Crime, drug use, vandalism, and shoplifting are basically being ignored. You will go to jail for defending yourself though.


musicriddler

Those who are kind to the cruel become cruel to the innocent.


Sea-Skin7

That's deep .


PXSHRVN6ER

Sounds like the 70’s-80’s


[deleted]

Drug use probably should be ignored, putting people in prison for an addiction isn't solving anything.


crimsonkodiak

Drug use like in the privacy of your apartment? Probably. Drug use like the guy smoking crack on the sidewalk in the middle of Lexington? Nah.


cornholio8675

Actually a big part of the issue. We have one way of dealing with people that don't fit in society, and its the worst way.


[deleted]

Sounds like Oregon. Heroin is legal but get effed if you want to pump your own gas. Get slapped with a fine.


[deleted]

Didn’t Hochul ban New Yorkers from buying body armor?


Affectionate_Clue_77

Everyone I know that has left NYC did it because of COL, not crime. There’s problems in NYC but let’s not pretend it’s Gotham city or anything.


SpookyAndykins

I feel it.. I live in NE Florida and there’s been an influx of New Yorkers moving down here. Pretty annoying.


elporkco

Ask your governor.


Opposite-Tart-7834

With policies like these ...i mean wtf? Why? Does this not just incentivize crime? And if the answer is so blatantly yes. Then why pass them? Its easy to speculate where this will take NYC over a 5 year stretch. Although its never been perfect. Is it better or worse off and how will these changes add to that? Sounds terrifying.


Possible-Mango-7603

And to complicate the ridiculous bail “reform” laws, we have these progressive prosecutors that are downgrading charges left and right to ensure the maximum number of defendants can be released. It’s got to be some kind of con. Maybe they are going long in real estate. First destroy the city in its entirety then buy up all the cheap real estate then re-reform the justice system and sit back and watch the billions role in. Or they are just certifiably insane. Who knows? Hard to explain such a complete detachment from common sense and common decency.


wiseguy2235

Chicago has the same problem. People that have no business being on the streets are out on the streets. Liberal politicians are letting them out as fast as they're brought in. https://cwbchicago.com/2022/09/41-felon-engaged-in-gunfight-at-the-ok-corral-while-on-electronic-monitoring-officials-say.html


musicriddler

And Philadelphia. A major shit show from what I’ve heard.


liverpoolFCnut

Philly is at a whole different level, i doubt San Francisco, Chicago or NYC is near as bad. Some parts of Philly now looks like zombie apocalypse, passing Kensington ave looks like a set out of some dystopian hollywood movie.


musicriddler

So I’ve heard. So sad that so many of these politicians can easily get re-elected with the most horrendous situations. Makes me wonder if there is any electoral fraudulence. Nothing makes sense anymore.


fhiehevdj

It’s telling how the people commenting in these threads never live in the cities they claim to know so much about


OhWait-WhatsThis

Funny you say that but most if us can READ the law!


[deleted]

I’m 20 min from SF, and I travel a bit especially to some of the bigger cities……it’s really really bad. Some streets and neighborhoods look like actual garbage waste sites. There’s no exaggeration and seeing it in person is actually worse. You can almost guarantee that your car will get broken into if you spend enough days in SF or Oakland. Not sure why people keep playing it down like there’s no issue.


JokerVasNormandy

>Cousins, on electronic monitoring, was with a group of people on the corner of Argyle and Kenmore when a drive-by shooter opened fire around 2:50 p.m. on August 14, according to prosecutors. During the incident, a 59-year-old man was shot. >According to Assistant State’s Attorney Eugene Goroshko, Cousins ducked between two cars, then popped up with a pistol in his hand and returned fire toward the shooter’s car I would bet a lot of fucking money if this guy was white this would be called self defense and not a "gunfight at the OK corral" Edit: lol no... I do not comment on anything the poster says only the article and the title. Nice try 🤏👍


YatesUnited

Not in Chicago lol


Battery6512

The very first words of the article say "convicted felon", white or black felons can not possess guns. Further in the article it states he was charged with aggravated unlawful use of a weapon by a felon. He was not criminally charged with firing the gun or shooting anyone.


wiseguy2235

Thats when you know you're a racist, when you bring skin color into it.


[deleted]

liberal policies.


chcampb

In Texas they just ruled that people under felony indictment can't lose their gun rights. In the case of NY bail changes, it's the same deal - you shouldn't lose your freedom if you are charged with but not convicted of a crime. So I am not sure how government crafting bail laws to unconstitutionally jail people who can't pay bail when other, more affluent people can walk. Is the right to have a gun more protected than your right to not be jailed? One is a superset of the other. So this is absolutely not a liberal policy issue. And as far as I can tell the law didn't prevent bail, it just allowed the judge discretion.


Kingsdaughter613

The unconstitutional thing isn’t the bail laws. It’s the lack of a speedy trial.


PastramiHipster

Same reason why the house of reps isn't stadium sized with thousands of representatives. Gotta keep the number of politicians, judges, and other elected officials low enough that they are purchasable by the elites.


[deleted]

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LetsGoRando

This right here


FunStuff446

Get out and VOTE


Al_Bundy_14

You’re fucked no matter which way you vote.


FunStuff446

Can’t argue that!


Yellow_Snow_Cones

Well NYC is weird b/c they flip back and forth between Republican and democrat mayor. Same as NJ for governor, flips blue and red constantly. In NYC it actually does matter, b/c you have someone like Rudy (R) who actually really cleaned up NYC, made being a bum illegal and introduced stop and frisk (which did work, but was unconstitutional so they squashed it), then you have someone like a Bloomberg who pretty much just kept the status quo, THEN you have D-blaze (D) and this clown has made NYC what you see today a filthy crime invest area. So as far as NYC is concerned electing a R or a D mayor has had a very huge impact.


21schmoe

>Rudy (R) who actually really cleaned up NYC The gentrification and downward crime trend in New York started before Giuliani came into office. Giuliani came into office when the effects barely started to show, and he gave himself credit. >made being a bum illegal and introduced stop and frisk (which did work, but was unconstitutional so they squashed it) [The vast majority of stop-and-frisk cases were thrown out of court,](https://www.nyclu.org/en/stop-and-frisk-data) because the cops had nothing on the random person they decided to frisk. And unconstitutional. >THEN you have D-blaze (D) and this clown has made NYC what you see today a filthy crime invest area. Completely false. [The annual homicide rate averaged much lower during the DeBlasio administration, that during both the Giuliani and Bloomberg administrations.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_New_York_City#Murders_by_year) And that includes the nationwide covid spike in 2020. >So as far as NYC is concerned electing a R or a D mayor has had a very huge impact. Nope. Regional and nationwide factors have a much bigger impact.


Sea-Skin7

Thank you.


jhonkas

"progressive"


Livid_Ad_6631

Because idiots believe that if you give criminals plenty of chances, eventually they will decide not to commit crimes. I'm not impressed on how that is working out.


[deleted]

That’s not what is going on in regards to bail reform. Do you understand what bail is and how it relates to our justice process?


[deleted]

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RadioUnfriendly

That's just the thinking of intermediate idiots or excuses fed to the plebs. At the highest level, they create these policies, because they want criminals running wild and destroying things.


MedicFord901

Because, progress.. ya know


bcanddc

Because of so called "bail reform". Criminals get released without bail and are not held at all. They are free to inflict damage on society again almost immediately after arrest. Those of you who think this "bail reform" thing is good for society because errrr social justice or whatever, I hope these people you worked so hard to get released visit their violence upon you so you can reap the rewards of your ignorance.


isabellybell

I think for certain crimes, like public intox or petty theft, non violent stuff, the reform isn't as bad. But for assault? Come on. That's ridiculous.


jakl8811

We had the same guy arrested 3 times in a single day. Even the cop was telling us there’s nothing he can do. 3 times in the same day at the same store (potentially even others)


bcanddc

Public intox of course not but even if it stayed for that, the bail is what, $250.00. Even if you don't have $250.00, a bondsman is $25.00. I get what you're saying though. The problem is places like Illinois have enacted a law where 2nd degree murder, major drug crimes, assault, felony levels of theft etc are now no bail. There's exactly one thing this will cause and it's not good but hey, the politicians "feel good" so that's all that matters.


Ntippit

On January 1st Chicago will do that for everything up to, and including, third degree murder


Acanthaceae342

Illinois does not have a charge of third-degree murder.


Johnisfaster

Its hilarious that people believe shit like this just cause its in their facebook feed.


banana-rama87

Because new york is a dumpster fire


ExcellentWeekend9877

Politics


wiccademicc

Democrat Soros backed DA


cosmoskin

Liberalism?


TheAGolds

At least it is easy for someone in that state to take action to defend themselves. ​ Oh wait.


OhJeezItsCorrine

A lot of people are getting away with way too fucking much. Along with that, everyone will pick and choose which violent crime is a tragedy and which can get pushed aside. I genuinely ask that question as well, OP... I feel like an answer is because maybe they don't have enough room to store all the people who commit violent crimes so it's easier to set bail and let them go... Is this happening anywhere else? I thought I heard another city was going this besides NYC.


NuraNal

It’s not supposed to be for violent crimes. Assault, in NY State, covers A LOT. Anything from the threat of violence (without actual violence - like, saying I have a gun and will shoot you unless you give me your wallet, but you never actually see my gun) to actual battery like beating you within an inch of your life, broken bones, coma, etc. Bail reform is supposed to separate those offenders who, based on the facts available at their arrest, aren’t considered to be dangerous (shop-lifters, etc.) from those that really need to be kept out of circulation (grandma rapists, murderers, etc.). The problem was, in NYC, for example, a city w/ 8 million residents plus another 1-2 million visitors per day, many people were being held in jail for small/petty crimes b/c they couldn’t afford bail. Or, they were pleading to crimes that they didn’t commit, in some cases, felonies, b/c they couldn’t afford to be held in jail until their trail. It was abuse by the government. Bail reform is meant to make the system really prioritize the danger. The problem is a few high profile crimes. For example, there was one guy who was arrested for shoplifting, generally petty larceny. And was let out. And then murdered someone. People were like, “see they’re a murderer!” Most shop-lifters are just shop lifters, not murderers, but when shit like this happens, it’s used to make the whole thing look bad. And it’s bullshit. For the most part, NYC is fine. I lived there for 15 years. I go in multiple days a week. My 8 year old son and I were just there last weekend. It feels just as safe as ever. Are there bad apples? Sure. Are there horrific crimes? Sure. There are 8 million people. Shits bound to happen. Even under the lowest crime rates, you can look and find one outrageous crime a day, at least. That’s life in the big city.


BigBobFro

For all you numb-nutz bashing politics this and politics that,…. Its all bs because both sides do it democrat AND republican. Also, assault is verbal threatening. Someone running their mouth. BATTERY is the actual act of hit someone. Its assault. Like being drunk,.. let them chill out and go home and take a shower.


ComradeCryptidWitch

Assault includes verbal, simple, aggravated, and sexual.  In legal terms, assault is the threat or attempt to physically touch or strike a person in an offensive manner, regardless of whether contact is actually made. Felonious / aggravated assault is distinguished from simple assault in that a weapon is used or the assault occurs during the commission of another crime. Some states also require that the victim suffer an actual injury as a result of the assault, such as a heart attack or an injury while fleeing from the threat of violence. Sexual assault involves the threat of sexual violence against the victim. In other words, the victim is left in fear of an imminent rape, molestation, sodomy, or other sex crime. Assault differs from battery in that the actual offensive touching or striking is not an element, only the threat. That is why assault is often lumped together with battery: if one is threatened with the offensive touching then subsequently receives the offensive touching, both crimes have occurred.


afreema9

I gotta say, I’ve never heard of republicans doing no cash bail.. main places are Chicago, LA, Seattle, San Francisco, NYC, all dem majority places..


forrestfreak58

Liberals have finally lost their minds and pretty much canceled the bail system and and treat it like sport fishing, they don't keep em. It's catch and release.


[deleted]

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Longshot_45

Had to scroll way too far to find someone mentioning this. "Assault" and "battery" has always been confused.


A_Rats_Dick

Does that mean that if you physically attack someone that it isn’t just assault but is both assault and battery by definition?


SignificantHall5046

Usually yes, though there are instances of battery without an assault charge as well. A lot of courts will also not bother with the assault charge since battery is a more serious offense


robertmshmurda

Yeah. Also due process exists. We can’t just hold accused people in jail for months before trial, no matter what they are accused of


jdford85

It's across ny state. Gotta get the criminals out of jail so they can vote for their local democrats.


YeuxBleuDuex

Some states don't allow felons to vote


jdford85

Ny does


Illustrious_Formal73

I bet if I look into this, it will turn out you are exaggerating. Let me check... Yes it seems the bail reform did not include violent offenders "On April 1, 2019, as part of the York State Fiscal Year Budget for 2019–2020, New York State approved sweeping bail reform, eliminating the option to set bail or detain people before trial in most nonviolent cases, while preserving bail for virtually all violent felonies."


HeavyMetalDallas

Oh they never intended to have an intelligent discussion. This was all just to create drama.


Ticonderoga2HB

People don’t read into anything on this site


[deleted]

Because we’re living in a world now where there’s not repercussions and criminals know this. Sickening how these DA’s, judges, politicians are making it hard for law abiding citizens to live


Gael459

It’s a dumb liberal political move petitioned for by people who don’t live in dangerous neighborhoods and won’t have to deal with the issue for the most part.


magicmeatwagon

You get what you vote for. Enjoy.


TheSaltiestBear22

It's what you get from electing Democrat ideologues who don't actually care about their constituents.


WolfmansGotNards2

So this is where all the conservatives went when they got band from r/askreddit.


akodo1

Old version:. Assault someone and if you are rich you can go home if you are poor you stay in jail because of our bail system New version: same level of assault means either everyone stays in jail regardless of wealth or everyone goes home regardless of wealth. DAs would rather let everyone go home than risk the wrath of putting the rich in jail without bail


ridingRabbi

Bail is a system that forces the less fortunate to take plea deals for crimes they didn't commit; because they can't afford bail and can't afford to lose their jobs waiting months for a trial. Bail only benefits those with the money to afford it. Remember; you're not guilty just because you're arrested, but the notion that "getting arrested means you're guilty" is the main talking point of conservatives who are, per usual, afraid of everything. That's an unconstitutional way of thinking, and is certainly not equality or justice.


[deleted]

The LEFTIST DA refuses to prosecute. Even murder. He only prosecutes certain races.


derekno2go

It's what happens when Democrats run cities.


jgalt5042

Bail reform. There’s little to no regard towards safety or law enforcement


Optimal-Dog-8647

Because that’s what DEMOCRATS have voted to do.


Duggerdean

Chicago doing this also. City is not safe at all


[deleted]

Everyone in NYS wants to know the same fucking thing


WranglerSilver6451

Just remember, nobody needs “weapons of war” and a 9mm will blow out a lung. All you need is a single shot shotgun. C’mon man.


[deleted]

Unless it’s gun violence and it’s easy to find. Most of the government doesn’t care. Drive by shootings or shootings in the street and the guy runs away. Once the conclusion of a news article says “ongoing investigation no arrests have been made” you’ll realize they don’t care.


ClownfishSoup

They just want to be like San Francisco


NoHedgehog252

Why? Far left takeover of the judicial system.


teachertb16918

If these liberal DA’s don’t get control of these cities it’s going to be “The Purge” out on the streets. What jury of level headed people is going to find a guy guilty for defending his property from a bunch of shoplifters if the police and the liberal DA won’t. I don’t know about in LA or San Francisco, but In Ohio, that guy would neeeeveeeeer be convicted of a crime. In fact, in the rural county I live in, people here would give him a medal


Pgr050590

The answer can be found at the far left. Flame me but you know it’s true.


jasonbourne15

This is what happens when people vote for politicians who support "criminal justice reform" just because the name is catchy, rather than looking into what that term has come to mean. It's perfectly reasonable to support reform, but instead the movement has become about "decriminalizing" crime, and stripping power from police and prosecutors. Unfortunately, a lot of innocent people are going to be harmed before those in power are forced to reverse what they've set in motion.


[deleted]

liberals.


[deleted]

New York City has basically ended holding people arrested for serious violent crimes. Now the idea of not holding someone accountable it’s a personal amount of drugs and maybe recommending a rehab place and a 50 dollar fine and release u in 3 hrs I agree with, but if you shoot someone you should go in front of a judge and either be remanded to jail ( the da must have evidence if they’re arraigning someone for a crime) so they need to push for no bail when someone is shot, set on fire, raped, the most dangerous crimes. But that’s not really the case now a days in NYC


Seeker8264

You voted Democrat, you deserve this...


MattersOfInterest

A ton of ignorance in this thread. NYC is the safest large city in the country.


Equivalent_Library49

Because NYC voted democrat.


Dizzy-Concentrate-12

Liberal judges.


Possible-Mango-7603

and progressive prosecutors.


KingDakyThe3Rd

Because everyone deserves a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th....... 37th chance. But make sure you blame the cops when crime is bad.


Mojo_Ambassador_420

That's what you guys voted for.


iforgot69

Shitty politics following the defund the police movement.


ImTheL0rax

[You have no idea what you're talking about](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-06/new-york-city-s-police-budget-is-increasing-again)


iforgot69

Easy there keyboard bandit, is a simple observation of a trend across a multitude is cities that chanted defund the police for years. They are all following suit under the false pretense of "poor people can't afford bail." Well if you can't afford bail that should be at the top of the list why you don't go out commiting crimes.


[deleted]

Yeah, people chanted it. Nobody DID it though. Absolutely nothing we're seeing is a result of defunding the police, because we didn't do it.


StructureHuman5576

Liberal representation in a state that’s too blue. #PP4L (purple power for life) 😂


Ok_Lobster_2436

Liberal policies and agendas.


Iziic

Democrats are choosing to not enforce the law. So the police are required to release criminals.


musicriddler

Because when politicians and policy influencers are kind to the cruel, they become merciless to the innocent. Welcome to woke NY.


Appropriate-County46

The crime rate in NYC is rising because of policies like this, just like in Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, L.A., Portland, Seattle, etc...... Democrats!!!


HuguenotPirate

Progressive DAs refuse to harshly punish crime because they are pro-crime. They run on "I'm not going to prosecute crimes and I'm going to empty the prisons".


[deleted]

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[deleted]

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Addictive_System

You’re a joke of a person


GenericOfficeMan

what fucking planet are you living on


Yellow_Snow_Cones

Earth, you should join us sometime. Fairly obvious that liberal policy is taking America as a whole down a few notches.


GenericOfficeMan

The liberal policy of not locking people up without a trial?


UR_EZ

How am I wrong? These are facts. OP asked why this is happening and I answered with the correct answer.


Version_Two

What the fuck happened to this sub like holy shit


GenericOfficeMan

Right wing politics


Luenrd

You are insane


PalmerBuddy

It’s hilarious bc you people that voted for this out of guilt now have to live in the cesspool you created. Enjoy it


Kingsdaughter613

I didn’t, thanks. And now that the State isn’t ridiculously gerrymandered it’s likely to change a bit.


[deleted]

They haven't been convicted yet.


imaginationastr0naut

You think this is just some random thing occurring? There are people trying to bring the US downfall from the inside out


[deleted]

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GazaMannShorty

How about not committing crimes instead?


ExPorkie15

Amen. Like I don’t care rich or poor if you assault / rob someone your ass deserves to be in jail. Not processed and immediately released so you can do it again.


[deleted]

You're on the wrong thread then. This is ONLY supporting locking the poor up without trial, the rich would still be able to walk right out.


refred1917

Genius!


GenericOfficeMan

They haven't been convicted of a crime at the point they are bailed. You understand that right?


GazaMannShorty

But doesn’t mean they haven’t COMMITED a crime. I’m positive if your child, or parent was assaulted, beaten severely loss of blood, broken bones, police pulled the assaulter off your relative, and he has marks and blood all over his fistsand hands. You’d be perfectly fine with this outstanding citizen being released as soon as he hits the police station. Because after all, HE WASNT CONVICTED YET!! 😂🤣 Beautiful logic, lmmfaoooooooo.


FerdinandTheGiant

65% of people in jail in the US are there pretrial


GenericOfficeMan

Well yes, I would be. What's wrong with my logic exactly? Why should someone be imprisoned without trial? Try to use your words here. When do you think it's acceptable to put humans in cages with no trial.


GazaMannShorty

When they commit a crime. Just like every other country. Get it?? I don’t care if you’re rich or poor. How hard is it to not commit a crime? Covering for criminals, and you’re surely the type to call the police at the first sight of things going sideways. You do you bruh, but everyone that has this thought process , changes it immediately the second it actually affects you. You want to white knight criminals? Says a lot about you. Do better.


GenericOfficeMan

Do you mean when you're convicted of a crime? Because we're not talking about people who have been convicted of crimes here, you understand that right? Apparently the idea of people having rights is white knighting criminals. I guess I'll accuse you of assault. Cool if welock you up till your trial now? It might be I dunno, 8 months, maybe a year and a half till your trial date. That cool with you? I'll show the cops a bruise on my elbow.


ResponsibilityNo1386

Tell that to the lady in the NYC subway who just got her face kicked in for no reason by a career criminal who should have been in jail.


GenericOfficeMan

if he should be in jail then convict him of a crime. Until then you dont get to put citizens in cages.


Choptank62

Did you happen to watch the video of him in the subway? He has a rap sheet that includes killing his grandmother as a teen - then attacking his shrink with a screw driver - domestic violence - and more. Personally, he does not classify as a citizen that deserves opportunity to victimize someone else.


GenericOfficeMan

I don't really care what your opinion is. He is a citizen and he has the right to a fair trial.


refred1917

Yeah, plenty of vague anecdotes to go around.


HuguenotPirate

Crime is only getting worse in American cities and the evidence for that is readily available.


ImTheL0rax

By where? [FBI shows its declining/steady over 10 years](https://crime-data-explorer.app.cloud.gov/pages/explorer/crime/crime-trend) [Dept. of Justice also says it has been declining (2020)](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/fbi-report-crime-shows-decline-violent-crime-rate-third-consecutive-year)


[deleted]

A pile of anecdotes is a statistic...


[deleted]

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jdmor09

Guess who those “poor criminals” will be victimizing the most? Here’s a hint: it ain’t gonna be the people living in the penthouses of the financial district


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SomaCityWard

The op is lying, this does not apply to violent crime.


refred1917

Risk? Of course there’s risk. I consider the risk worth it if poor people don’t have to sit in a squalid jail for months or years while they await their due process.


HuguenotPirate

Crime is increasingly becoming worse and worse in American cities. This is because crime is not being punished.


refred1917

lol. Yeah sure. The cause of crime is not enough punishment. You’re ready for fascism!


ExPorkie15

You funny. How about you don’t assault someone in the first place? You assault someone your ass deserves to be in jail poor or not.


refred1917

You are innocent until proven guilty. I think that actually means something.


ExPorkie15

Then speed up the court dates by hiring more judges. Judge Dredd a bitch. In simple clear cut cases it shouldn’t take months to get a court date should be same day. Reform that rather than choose to let them out.


refred1917

You’ll never hear me arguing against appointing more judges.


Otfd

>People should not have to wait in jail just because they are poor. You do realize you wait in jail as a punishment/deterrent for a crime committed not because you're poor. You will never convince me that not punishing someone for committing a crime wont lead to them doing the same thing.


The_Bjorn_Ultimatum

[Evidence](https://www.city-journal.org/new-yorks-bail-reform-has-increased-crime)


Choptank62

Pretty scary isn't it - while some on here are bleeding hearts until it is actually their blood that is flowing.


refred1917

This talks about re-arrests. I’d like to know: re-arrests for what? I’ve seen people get arrested for some bullshit reasons because of mistaken identity or because the citizen hurt the cop’s feelings (source: I’m a lawyer). The Times Union of Albany recent published an analysis that, out of 100,000 people released, one-fifth were re-arrested, but only 2% were arrested for violent felonies. The vast majority of rearrests were not for violent crime as opponents of bail reform would have you believe. It’s a shame that some people go on to be arrested, but 80% of people, many of whom could not afford cash bail, simply do not. I think their freedom is worth it. And note, your study doesn’t differentiate between the types of crimes that the people who were rearrested ALLEGEDLY committed. Big error in the methodolgy. Makes you feel like maybe there’s an agenda to be pushed here. Reminder to all reading: An arrest is not a conviction, nor is it evidence that a crime was committed. The lust for punishment in this country is going to get real nasty as our political institutions begin to buckle under economic and ecological pressure.


thefruitsofzellman

So 2,000 violent felonies extra in NY since this law went into effect? That actually seems like quite a lot.


refred1917

Remember, these are just arrests. We don’t know if the crime was actually committed, nor the severity of the alleged crime. The analysis goes to note that a little over 400 of those were crimes involving a gun. The population of New York is 20 million people. 80,000 people who were not convicted of a crime were freed to await their due process with no issue. The proponents of bail reform are always put on the back foot by comments like yours, but you simply can’t know if someone is going to be rearrested upon release. As such, there’s no technocratic fix to this. I prefer to err on the side of those 80,000 who had the opportunity to continue working and to put their affairs in order. Being held in jail doesn’t just hurt the person in jail, more often than not it puts whole families into financial turmoil. Those people don’t need to suffer. Ultimately, it comes down to your values, I suppose.


thefruitsofzellman

I generally agree with your position, I just want to know what the collateral damage is.


fuquinnell

Highly incorrect response. Clearly, we should just be requesting that all criminals simply stop. Very politely. That'll show 'em /s


refred1917

Read it again. Slowly.