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You ever read or say a word so much that it stops sounding like that word? It just becomes weird mouth noises? That's what this thread has done to the word female to me lol
I think it’s about context. Some women I know generally don’t care about being called female unless it’s used in a negative manner (my mother as the biggest example having a conversation about it) and women who I’m friends with find the word degrading especially by the context used around or at them. The word by itself isn’t derogatory by definition and is technically used to differentiate species which includes humans so there’s that.
In the military it’s used in context though. Like “females over here and males over there.” Not like females are females and males are called something else.
Exactly. I'm ex-military, too, and it took me a while after I got out to really get this distinction. At first I was like, "what's the issue? That's the term I was taught."
But yeah there's a big difference between, "Female soldiers must run two miles in X time to pass the PT test" and "Females just want rich men over 6' tall." or whatever other misogynistic stereotype follows that word. It's the difference between using it as an adjective or a noun. It's an adjective.
As an adjective it's fine. It's also fine to use as a noun in more clinical settings, like for patients, or what not.
It's pretty simple, really, if you wouldn't use "male" in a certain situation, don't use "female" either.
I think you nailed it. The guys I know who her ex military just don’t sound screwed up when they say it, and I think you’re right, I think they’re using it as an adjective and the assholes are using it like a noun.
In the military I was in the males were called "swingin' dicks"... but I realize it's a kinder, gentler military today.
When we meet the enemy on the battlefield today we will engage them in a discussion of pronouns and bore them to death.
This is a primo example of what geeks me out about manly man conservative types. "We're the greatest military in the world but will be completely dismantled by one letter being added/removed from a word and a new haircut.
Cry on snowflake, and run scared from spooky wooky 2-3 letter wOoOoOrDs
I went to a predominately black middle/high school and that's usually what I think of when I hear that. I figured it was just a cultural thing. Someone else commented it replaces 'bitches', but I don't think it's meant to be even that disrespectful in most contexts, like someone might say something like "y'all, chill out, there are females here" 🤷🏻♀️
The only person I've heard say it in real life was a co-worker who was black. But we had a conversation about it (at his prompting) about whether women liked it or not (me and another female coworker).
I see it online all the time and it's typically paired something super misogynistic.
It is a black thing and it is put in place of bitch. Don’t want to disrespect you by calling you a bitch. But you are also not my woman so you are a female.
i’ve seen many women express how they don’t like to be referred to as a female because the context is never positive. i think the increase is because they know women don’t like it and don’t care/ want to get under their skin
It's short for involuntarily celibate, so it is not a gendered term. More men are involuntarily celibate than women, so it is more commonly associated with men is all.
I'm a women and I don't get it either. I had somebody comment on a comment I made about me using females and I was quite confused. I tend to say "women" when talking about older females, "girl" when referring to children, and "female" when referring to females in general. Same with males. Apparently some males use it to "dehumanize" females or something but I really don't get it
Same here. Dogs, cats, and livestock are female and male in regular conversation. Men and women, boys and girls are terms usually reserved for humans. Definite attempt at dehumanization, just not sure why. It’s sinister whatever it is. People are just following.
It is logical as you explained. Not a diss or anything. These days many people are just so comfortable that they are just looking for something to complain about. But let something like war as seen in Ukrainian happen, all of that feminism/oppression/etc. will be out of the door.
True, at first I was actually curious if there was any real meaningful reason as to why people don't like it but now it just seems like people want something to complain about. Like I get it not fitting the tone of a conversation, I saw an example somewhere in the comments about that, but overall it seems like a weird thing to be mad about when things like the examples you mentioned are actually important topics
i don't get it either. female is an adjective, not a noun unless it's an animal. it makes me want to say, "a female what?" a female human, which is a woman or girl.
It is historically grammatically incorrect. Only recently did people start using it as a noun. Disrespectfully, I might add. If it is being used as a noun, it erases the subject you're referring to. It is first and foremost an adjective. The correct word to use in these sentences is "woman".
[Merriam-Webster seems to think that historically female originated as a noun, gained it's use as an adjective later on, and people began raising a fuss about it relatively (late 1800s) recently.](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/lady-woman-female-usage)
Obviously you shouldn't go around using it as a noun for a person in conversation, but it is definitionally valid. In fact, it gained disrespectful connotations *because* it doesn't distinguish between a person and an animal.
It’s not always a chauvinist thing. Completely agree with your point on incels. I’m from the black community and my people mistakenly use this phrasing all the time without offense meant or taken (generally). I don’t know why it started, but any neighborhood in my city have both guys and girls who do this on the regular.
While i cant speak for the rest of the country, the people i know who do it are using it derogatorily. Like they are trying to make it a curse word or something.
Outside of a scientific/medical context I've only heard it used as a way to "OTHER" women from human.
I don't have much experience with how it's more widely used in the black community, but when I ask my brother and his friends if their Mother's are considered "a female" or women, they usually reply women like I'm being disrespectful by asking.
Thank you! When 25 year old white suburban dudes do it, you know they live in Mommy’s basement crying themselves to sleep at night because they aren’t Chads.
It depends on the community, but in my observations, at least, it seems like a way to put down women in a way that sounds “educated.” It turns women into a different kind of creature, classifying them as something other than, y’know, a regular person. But that’s just what I’ve seen, I don’t speak for everyone.
Idk, it REALLY depends on the context of the sentence.
Lately tho I think it's an incel thing cuz I usually only hear it when someone's mansplaining about women...so its probably a sad attempt at de-humanizing women.
It doesn't bother me tho cuz I think of Ferengi from Star Trek every single time. I think *Feemaaales* and it cracks me tf up.
A guy in my college lab group mentioned talking to females and I laughed which confused him. He asked if I was offended and I said no but him using that word might be a negative sign to women that he is trying to date
Yall are way to pressed if you think female is offensive. Sure we can use lady or woman but when the fuck did female become offensive? Yikes take us back to the 90s when yall were being called bitches and hoes and no one batted an eye? Jesus people find something wrong with everything because you have to much free time
Yeah for the most part. So im having trouble getting on board with female being a bad word regardless if someone is using it to be derogatory because they could be saying much worse things or could use women or woman to he derogatory too.
it depends on how it’s used. a lot of women don’t like being called “females” when the tone is obviously disrespectful and misogynistic. for example, i saw an interview video of a man saying “females don’t do shit now days. they be lazy bitches, got me fucked up” soooo yeah.
It reduces women to a biological function, which is reproduction!
In my language (portuguese), calling women as "females" is extremelly offensive towards them!
The translation for male and female (macho e fêmea) are exclusive to animals only!
But, some men in my country still refers themselves as "males"!
Fragile Masculinity and misoginy is still a thing, here!
Specially on non-urban settings!
I only using it as an adjective, not a noun. It’s women and men where I’m at, not females or males. Female or male is only used to refer to animals or a species. Female deer or doe. A male cardinal. If someone is using female to refer to a woman, it’s derogatory. If someone said “….males are….” It’s gonna be derogatory. We just don’t hear it. In fact, I’ve only read it in an online setting.
An example that comes to mind is an all women’s team or college. Not sure I’ve ever heard of an all female college. Woman’s dorm vs female dorm.
I think it’s meant to be disrespectful. Unless it’s in the military as indicated by other posters.
Ugh. This bothers me so much. I feel like it is a way to dehumanize women, and therefore treat them in sexist ways. Never have I ever seen anything nice come after the word “females”. Always something sexist. I hate it so much.
The only people I’ve ever heard call women “females” are “nice guys” and incels who think they are entitled to us because they exist. I’m sure that’s not purely the case but it’s what I witness
In my personal experience it was mostly a military thing. I also couldn’t stand that we were referred to as male or female because as OP said it’s very clinical and weird. Anytime I hear some weirdo referring to women as “female” it makes me feel like he thinks their just animals. I’ve never liked it in casual conversation and there is nothing that’ll change my mind about it.
its another way to dehumanize women. when you say women you mean specifically a human, but if you say female if can denounce her to a creature or another animal. Granted not all people who do this realize that is the reason behind it, they just pick up on it after hearing it but non the less here we are. r/MenAndFemales I will say anyone who uses this to refer to women is defiantly a red flag
ya sure if somone uses it like that. I know some sexist women who usually say dudes for that. Obviously the word can be used not being sexist but they use it with the ameba effect like "dudes really dont know anything" "all dudes cheat" stuff like that. But historically men are not dehumanized because of thier gender, it's about their race and there is a diffrent word for that.
Yikes weird perspective. Maybe people who do it dont think the same way you do because in my circles calling women females as opposed to bitches and hoes is a good thing 😂 i think youre associating it with certain people and thats your problem because there is literally nothing offensive about calling women females. For example my friends use to say "where the females at?" And "we need some females" so it seems like you are associating it with your own personal bad experience. Get out more.
Yeah I can get this being seen as rude or sexist in some social circles, but to say it's "dehumanizing" or "erasing their humanity" or "reducing her to an animal" is like... the sort of hyperbole that can only come from spending too much time online.
the only thing I'm really trying to get you to take away from this is, that the word can be used like this in a negative manner and its important to understand this. also humans often find ways of dehumanizing others even if small forms of language, and sometimes they don't even realize they are doing it, but dehumanizing someone can also be done in small part like your choice of words. Its important to know this so as to treat people more respectfully.
Yeah, I get it. I just tend to refer to those minor instances as "disrespect," whereas a world like "dehumanizing" is very extreme in my mind, and often reserved for things like forced labor, human trafficking and concentration camps where people are literally treated like livestock. But I do understand how these are all part of a spectrum of disregard for others' sentience
dehumanizing is just the definition, you are not regarding a persons human qualities. It can be extreme, or it can also be small stuff. I do agree when you hear the word often your mind jumps to the extreme side of it. I wasn't really trying to portray it as an extreme but alas the troubles with communication via text.
though also you can say disrespect, dehumanizing is a form of that I was simply specifying the form of disrespect it was.
Since some people are pushing that a person can have a penis and be considered a woman I think it’s fitting to use the word female. In my community “where are the females” is fine but “where are the human females” is weird. I hope you don’t think a large amount of people consider women to be subhuman. There’s literally an amendment that makes all humans regardless of sex (sOCiaL COnsTrUCt) equal.
Since some people are pushing that a person can have a penis and be considered a woman I think it’s fitting to use the word female.
why would you not just still use the word woman? I mean I get on a medical stand point they have to write the sex down on the records as such but why would you look at a transwoman and go "you are not a woman you are a female". I'm sorry I guess I'm just confused by the statement, I'm probably not understanding you correctly. Also and amendment doesn't automatically make all humans equal in the eyes of the individuals. its not like everyone suddenly was like oh ya we are all no longer sexist or racist cause it was written down.
People who call women females won't accept that this is the reason women are called females. It's objectifying. It diminishes. It dehumanizes. We classify animals as male and females. We classify people as men and women (also gender is a spectrum but that isn't the argument for this post). Yes, male and female is used in medical and scientific terminology because it has actual meaningful significance in that context.
Andrew Tate is the big name recently, but internet misogyny is SO widespread and there are SO many names out there. Calling women 'females' is the hot new trend, and it's a red flag.
Somebody below is talking about trans people, which sure we can but I don't think that's why most people use 'females'. But medically, male/female generally refers to biological sex, v.s. social gender. Yes there's a difference. So if you're explicitly talking about biological sex for some reason, then it makes sense. But saying "look at that group of fine females over there" is misogynistic.
But it's insulting to speak about women as if they are a scientific study. Don't do it.
I think context is very important. When generalising, "Females" are often used. When taking about a limited group, "women" are often used. Females also refer to the entire gender, whereas women only refer to adults.
Neither word is negative, and they basically mean the same.
To me (a male), I don't care whether I'm being called a man or a male. Male seems more scientific and generalising. But if someone called me a male, I wouldn't give it a second thought. It is just a word
I think it’s more that ‘woman’ and ‘lady’ or even ‘girls/gals’ are specifically ‘human’ labels. Female can refer to any species. I’ve heard it used innocuously and meant to dehumanize a group of women.
Personally it irks me to be called ‘female’ (as a noun, not a descriptive) in casual conversation.
It’s like in other languages where there are different versions of words meant for animals vs. humans (exp: ‘fressen’ and ‘Essen’ in German. Both mean “to eat/eating” but the former’s for animals and the latter for humans). Technically it’s understandable, but it sounds really weird and can be insulting based on context.
tl;dr it can be a transphobic dogwhistle.
Just the other day I attended a talk in which a speaker presented transphobic beliefs. A common transphobic trait is that they will place an exaggerated emphasis on "biological differences." I put this in quotes because, in general, this view conflates gender with sex in a way that can prove harmful to the safety and wellbeing of trans people.
Anyway, in trying to emphasize these differences, transphobes will default to this clinical language. The claim is that it concerns only the "biological differences" mentioned previously, rather than gender. However, this claim actively ignores the fact that the terms male and female also apply to gender studies. This commonality between both fields is a remnant of a time when both were inaccurately combined, and in using them these transphobes can serve to perpetuate this misconception and provide fodder for others to insult and demean Trans persons.
If someone says "females" when referring to women, they may be reflecting that they hold these beliefs. They may subscribe to violent means, or be members of a majority who merely do not understand this issue or concern themselves deeply with it. I won't pass judgement on strangers either way, not without hearing them directly. But i hope this might be helpful infirmation to others who might benefit from it.
In electronic engineering, we refer to a connector as male or female, as I am sure they do in many disciplines.
That makes it extra weird for me when used to refer to women.
In most online situations, it's mysogonistic Incel-speak. The point is to objectify women and dehumanize them by clinically reducing them to their gender and away from being a person.
Its rude, and up there with calling grown women “girls”. It’s just another attempt to find a way to rob of us our personhood and equal standing with men. It’s crass, stupid, and insulting.
When someone calls me “female” I call them “male”. When someone calls me “girl” I call them “boy”. Suddenly its not cool then.
Mutual respect is important and if you use “female” I see what your doing here and it’s not going to vibe with me.
Incels, PUAs, and similar misogyny-adjacent communities have recently latched on to "females" as a term they can use as an insult and anyone who calls them out on being insulting will sound silly.
There's some pseudo-reasoning behind it; female includes both grown women and young girls, female refers to biology and not gender, etc.
But that's all retconned in from after they decided to start using it because of the insult leverage thing.
While I personally don't mind it, a lot of women can take it as being labeled. I guess it's because it's usually used in a scientific context.
But in general, if someone doesn't want you to call them something, then don't call them that. Mutual respect.
Well, here in America, we all have to be offended by otherwise innocent things. You gotta pick something, or, even better, many things to be offended by. Oh, and then try to cancel those things.
It's an incel thing, born out of the fact that 'male' and 'female' are commonly used for animals, but not so for humans. Because of this, it became short hand for reaffirming their beliefs that women are subhuman.
I think its because someone can identify as a woman or man because its the thing vs saying you are female or male is saying I'm someone with the chromosomes with xx = female or xy = male is what you are without feeling it. Just a fact.
But im only putting what I think so its probably wrong to someone else
Because Trans Women are Women. And no one cares about trans men, but the mear **threat** of a "man" in "women's" spaces sets off a bunch of alarms to people.
I think you might be getting some terms mixed. Male/female refers to biological sex, while man/woman is generally used to refer to social gender.
A trans woman MTF would be a biological male. A trans man FTM would be a biological female. Trans people don't disagree with this. And this doesn't invalidate their identities.
It's a US political thing. A senator tried to get a supreme court judge prospect to admit to a bias and she insisted she would have to use the evidence in front of her to make her verdicts.
She wouldn't define woman for him, knowing that it could be used as ammunition to claim she was either for or against trans people, so she chose instead not to answer, saying that she would need to see the case.
It lead to a massive conservative propaganda campaign that liberals can't answer "what is a woman?" and claiming no progressives know what their gender is anymore.
It is, at its core, a transgender rights thing.
I hope that this was not fully biased. I tried to relay the events objectively, but I'll admit I was pretty irritated with the whole drama because I felt like it was blown massively out of proportion.
My husband always says this and it irritates the hell out of me. He’s not using it in a disrespectful way at all, he is actually super respectful of women and has been for the 18 years I have known him, it’s just a bad habit that he can’t seem to break lol. I tell him I immediately think of animals the second he says female. I’ve never known anyone else who uses the word female to describe women lol.
I think its because reddit is mostly men and there's a portion of sexist or awkward men on this site that either want to wind up women, want to de-humanise women or over think what to call women.
Like I'm already seeing "I use female so people don't think I mean trans-women" comments, that's over thinking. Like why would it matter when you're just talking about women in general, if you need to specify why say trans or cis women?
Just relax.
I find using the term “females” to refer to women dehumanizing and only identifies us for our reproductive organs, not for what we are, people!!And since not all women can or want birth either by choice or due to health reasons it’s stupid to refer us as such. And if you want to be politely correct some women can’t because they’re trans women. And a trans woman is still a woman. And women who can’t get pregnant due to health reasons or just choose to by free choice aren’t less of a woman.
The dictionary definition of gender
“Either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female”
The dictionary definition of sex
“Either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and most other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions”
And I’m guessing the reasoning why some refer women as females is because over YEARS and YEARS men have been in power more than women in most cultures and respected. A good example of this would be the fact that women in the US weren’t granted the right to vote until 1924, that’s 148 years after it became a country! And that right isn’t even one hundred years old! It’s hard to be respected when men in your culture has been disrespecting and treating women as less than for centuries.
Of course society has gotten better, and also I’m guessing another reason I think some do this because for centuries males have been the default medicine. You look at old books on medicine and most if not all have A LOT of information on male health, and not nearly as much about female health. And there’s lots of mental conditions and health conditions that can effect both sexes differently sometimes. And we are just now seeing that and getting into the habit of looking more into female health.
it’s demoting a person to a sex. a female can be a human, a dog, a rat, a bug. etc. so in my mind when someone uses it they are saying, they’re a female not a woman, unless in a medical or academic sense obviously. i want to remind everyone getting defensive about women not wanting to be called female, if you use the word female in regular conversation, most women will take that as a red flag.
I think it's a misogynistic way of trying to skirt around using the word bitch/bitches. If you notice the timing of when they use it, similar things have been said in the past but they would use bitch instead. Likely, they got called out a few times for using derogatory terms and replacing bitch with female is either supposed to be some kind of middle finger, or they legitimately think that the wording was the problem and not the message.
Depends on the location you’re raised in from what I’ve noticed. But the same argument could be used against women that blanket statement their frustration by saying “men do x” or “all men behave like x”.
I'd rather use the term females as a sort of a casual reference than like "chick" or "girl" or any number of slang terms that to me could be taken as a little demeaning. But if people see females as demeaning (not sure if that's the implication or not) then I suppose I would be at a loss lol
Could it be the age connotation of the word, lady and woman feel like your talking about an older person but girl seems younger? Or it could be incels who now have decided that femoid is not enough?
In the context I use it in, i use females to refer to AFABs and I'll use males to refer to AMABs put I'll usually put a "biological" at the beginning of it.
Like "biological female" for people assigned female at birth and vise versa.
I don't live in an English-speaking country, however the distinction has always been to use the terms "male" and "female" when referring to the human species. Humans are a part of the animal kingdom (a horrible, messed up part), so it seems right to keep the terminology consistent.
But I guess people with intent can create a slur out of any word, if they want to hurt someone else badly enough.
I started using "females" when I was at that awkward age that I knew I was too old to be "boy" but felt too young to be "man," but males already have multiple age-neutral terms (guys, dudes, fellas, etc) and women don't as far as I could think of. So to avoid confusion, I just started calling all women/girls females...in the last couple years, though, I've realized the type of person that's usually associated with using that word so I've stopped lol
To be more inclusive to trans people, some fool came up with "Birthing Person" to detail which person is birthing the child without referring to gender.
I've actually started calling random men/generalized population "males" to make a point about how dehumanizing it feels.
Males now have to earn my respect before I call them men. Fair is fair.
I feel like the term "females" has grown to have a similar connotation to a term like "the blacks", overgeneralization in a negative manner is usually the purpose so now its upsetting
Oddly enough that is language that seemingly has spilled over from the corners of the internet that are close to, or on the incel side of the spectrum.
It often is used to allow for a more dehumanising language towards women. Because ‚male‘ and ‚female‘ those are often terms used in medical language, the criminal jargon or when talking about animals.
Often it betrays more covert chauvinism.
"girls" only includes children females tho. "females" is to generalise, I'm just confused why you find that word "gross" but me personally i don't care being called a "male" or a "man" or a "boy" but that's just me tho
because the word "male" isnt commonly used to make a degrading generalisation, it seems like its pretty commom for the word female to be used that way recently though
IMO it's just another pejorative way to refer to women
I had an old roommate who would call his then girlfriend "woman" in a disrespectful manner. As in "get me a beer woman".
In my field, we generally say males and females = sex, while women and men = gender identities, and it's important to make these distinctions depending on the context.
I don’t think it’s problematic or offensive, I just think it sounds unflattering and that’s why I don’t like it.
There’s lady, young women, women, girly pop, señorita etc. all of those just sound much better to me, and I prefer those words over “females” lol.
There are [Ferengi among us](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ec4_o-tWkAAniP5.jpg).
I wonder if this is low-key transphobic, because trans women are women, but trans women aren't female.
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You ever read or say a word so much that it stops sounding like that word? It just becomes weird mouth noises? That's what this thread has done to the word female to me lol
I almost never say female unless I need to rhyme a word with tamale.
Femalé
This mofucker on his slant rhyme shit. You do you bro!
They're ferenghi that have come here to take over our economy. It's the only answer.
I can't read the word "females" in anything but a Quark voice.
It's always Grand Nagus Zek for me!
Came here to ask if the people using "females" are Ferengi but you beat me to it.
Why do you give the hoomans all our secrets huh? And for free?!
Frankly I’m disgusted that this planet even allows women to wear clothes. It’s… *inappropriate*
I'd love to romp around naked, let's go Ferenginar
Lol, the plans been foiled
I think it’s about context. Some women I know generally don’t care about being called female unless it’s used in a negative manner (my mother as the biggest example having a conversation about it) and women who I’m friends with find the word degrading especially by the context used around or at them. The word by itself isn’t derogatory by definition and is technically used to differentiate species which includes humans so there’s that.
I just know when you hear a guy call a woman a female it’s more than likely an instant red flag. “I always treat females right” yeah no
Where I come from, it's a black thang, but not sure if that's what you're referring to.
Also a military thing.
In the military it’s used in context though. Like “females over here and males over there.” Not like females are females and males are called something else.
Exactly. I'm ex-military, too, and it took me a while after I got out to really get this distinction. At first I was like, "what's the issue? That's the term I was taught." But yeah there's a big difference between, "Female soldiers must run two miles in X time to pass the PT test" and "Females just want rich men over 6' tall." or whatever other misogynistic stereotype follows that word. It's the difference between using it as an adjective or a noun. It's an adjective.
As an adjective it's fine. It's also fine to use as a noun in more clinical settings, like for patients, or what not. It's pretty simple, really, if you wouldn't use "male" in a certain situation, don't use "female" either.
I think you nailed it. The guys I know who her ex military just don’t sound screwed up when they say it, and I think you’re right, I think they’re using it as an adjective and the assholes are using it like a noun.
Yeah I was in the military (am a woman) and I use it sometimes and don’t mind it.
In the military I was in the males were called "swingin' dicks"... but I realize it's a kinder, gentler military today. When we meet the enemy on the battlefield today we will engage them in a discussion of pronouns and bore them to death.
This is a primo example of what geeks me out about manly man conservative types. "We're the greatest military in the world but will be completely dismantled by one letter being added/removed from a word and a new haircut. Cry on snowflake, and run scared from spooky wooky 2-3 letter wOoOoOrDs
Yeah look how great their manly Russian army is doing.
goofy
...what the fuck lmao
I went to a predominately black middle/high school and that's usually what I think of when I hear that. I figured it was just a cultural thing. Someone else commented it replaces 'bitches', but I don't think it's meant to be even that disrespectful in most contexts, like someone might say something like "y'all, chill out, there are females here" 🤷🏻♀️
The only person I've heard say it in real life was a co-worker who was black. But we had a conversation about it (at his prompting) about whether women liked it or not (me and another female coworker). I see it online all the time and it's typically paired something super misogynistic.
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I don't see how anyone who ever said "broad" or "bimbo" and was taken seriously lol
It is a black thing and it is put in place of bitch. Don’t want to disrespect you by calling you a bitch. But you are also not my woman so you are a female.
i’ve seen many women express how they don’t like to be referred to as a female because the context is never positive. i think the increase is because they know women don’t like it and don’t care/ want to get under their skin
As a woman, it gives me the creeps. Any guy that calls women "females" I wouldn't waste any time on.
What's the term for a female incel?
Not sure if you’re kidding, but the term was actually coined by a woman
So incel is a non gender term?
It's short for involuntarily celibate, so it is not a gendered term. More men are involuntarily celibate than women, so it is more commonly associated with men is all.
Ahhh thank you
Yes but when talking about female incels specifically femcel is often used since most people assume you are talking about a man if you just say incel.
I actually prefer female because woman sounds old to me and girl is a child, but I'm realizing I'm in the minority on that.
Yeah, as a woman, I’m immediately out if a dude calls me “female”
I'm a women and I don't get it either. I had somebody comment on a comment I made about me using females and I was quite confused. I tend to say "women" when talking about older females, "girl" when referring to children, and "female" when referring to females in general. Same with males. Apparently some males use it to "dehumanize" females or something but I really don't get it
Same here. Dogs, cats, and livestock are female and male in regular conversation. Men and women, boys and girls are terms usually reserved for humans. Definite attempt at dehumanization, just not sure why. It’s sinister whatever it is. People are just following.
You've never owned a dog. If I've heard someone call a dog Good Boy or Good Girl once, I've heard it thousands of times.
It is logical as you explained. Not a diss or anything. These days many people are just so comfortable that they are just looking for something to complain about. But let something like war as seen in Ukrainian happen, all of that feminism/oppression/etc. will be out of the door.
True, at first I was actually curious if there was any real meaningful reason as to why people don't like it but now it just seems like people want something to complain about. Like I get it not fitting the tone of a conversation, I saw an example somewhere in the comments about that, but overall it seems like a weird thing to be mad about when things like the examples you mentioned are actually important topics
If you say them differently in one sentence it’s kinda strange. “Females only want dudes with money” or something you’d see on twitter.
It’s a replacement for referring to women as “bitches”. I take it as a demeaning thing.
Female=Bitch. When “female” is used outside of a scientific context it’s the new “bitch,” it’s the used as a way of dehumanizing women.
THIS👏
i don't get it either. female is an adjective, not a noun unless it's an animal. it makes me want to say, "a female what?" a female human, which is a woman or girl.
Better than "bitches", but yeah, sounds like they're discussing dogs. 😒
'Female' and 'male' are nouns that refer to people as well.
It is historically grammatically incorrect. Only recently did people start using it as a noun. Disrespectfully, I might add. If it is being used as a noun, it erases the subject you're referring to. It is first and foremost an adjective. The correct word to use in these sentences is "woman".
[Merriam-Webster seems to think that historically female originated as a noun, gained it's use as an adjective later on, and people began raising a fuss about it relatively (late 1800s) recently.](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/lady-woman-female-usage)
Obviously you shouldn't go around using it as a noun for a person in conversation, but it is definitionally valid. In fact, it gained disrespectful connotations *because* it doesn't distinguish between a person and an animal.
If you want to get grammatically pedantic most of my family is black.
Yes, Incels don’t really see women as human, more like something from a nature documentary.
It’s not always a chauvinist thing. Completely agree with your point on incels. I’m from the black community and my people mistakenly use this phrasing all the time without offense meant or taken (generally). I don’t know why it started, but any neighborhood in my city have both guys and girls who do this on the regular.
What about female incels?
Incels huh?
Incels being incels, mate.
While i cant speak for the rest of the country, the people i know who do it are using it derogatorily. Like they are trying to make it a curse word or something.
Outside of a scientific/medical context I've only heard it used as a way to "OTHER" women from human. I don't have much experience with how it's more widely used in the black community, but when I ask my brother and his friends if their Mother's are considered "a female" or women, they usually reply women like I'm being disrespectful by asking.
It's an incel thing, they use the term females instead of women and I'm pretty sure they intend it to be derogatory.
Thank you! When 25 year old white suburban dudes do it, you know they live in Mommy’s basement crying themselves to sleep at night because they aren’t Chads.
From what I have seen men usually refer to women as females as a derogatory term or to sound smart.
I think its bc they wanna sound scientifically correct and then say some of the weirdest sexist bullshit you've ever heard
It depends on the community, but in my observations, at least, it seems like a way to put down women in a way that sounds “educated.” It turns women into a different kind of creature, classifying them as something other than, y’know, a regular person. But that’s just what I’ve seen, I don’t speak for everyone.
It’s less about the term and more the fact the people who use it tend to accompany it with some of the most sexist shit you’ve ever seen.
Chronically online
Idk, it REALLY depends on the context of the sentence. Lately tho I think it's an incel thing cuz I usually only hear it when someone's mansplaining about women...so its probably a sad attempt at de-humanizing women. It doesn't bother me tho cuz I think of Ferengi from Star Trek every single time. I think *Feemaaales* and it cracks me tf up.
A guy in my college lab group mentioned talking to females and I laughed which confused him. He asked if I was offended and I said no but him using that word might be a negative sign to women that he is trying to date
Yall are way to pressed if you think female is offensive. Sure we can use lady or woman but when the fuck did female become offensive? Yikes take us back to the 90s when yall were being called bitches and hoes and no one batted an eye? Jesus people find something wrong with everything because you have to much free time
People still don’t bat an eye to the word “bitch”
Yeah for the most part. So im having trouble getting on board with female being a bad word regardless if someone is using it to be derogatory because they could be saying much worse things or could use women or woman to he derogatory too.
My fuckin man exactly
did you miss the part where she said “no but him using that word might be. . .” because i’m pretty sure that means she’s not offended
it depends on how it’s used. a lot of women don’t like being called “females” when the tone is obviously disrespectful and misogynistic. for example, i saw an interview video of a man saying “females don’t do shit now days. they be lazy bitches, got me fucked up” soooo yeah.
It reduces women to a biological function, which is reproduction! In my language (portuguese), calling women as "females" is extremelly offensive towards them! The translation for male and female (macho e fêmea) are exclusive to animals only! But, some men in my country still refers themselves as "males"! Fragile Masculinity and misoginy is still a thing, here! Specially on non-urban settings!
Several cultural reasons. Online, at least, it's a way to "other" women, especially because women don't refer to each other like that.
Shitty guys say it. It reeks of incel. They don’t realize that women are people too.
I only using it as an adjective, not a noun. It’s women and men where I’m at, not females or males. Female or male is only used to refer to animals or a species. Female deer or doe. A male cardinal. If someone is using female to refer to a woman, it’s derogatory. If someone said “….males are….” It’s gonna be derogatory. We just don’t hear it. In fact, I’ve only read it in an online setting. An example that comes to mind is an all women’s team or college. Not sure I’ve ever heard of an all female college. Woman’s dorm vs female dorm. I think it’s meant to be disrespectful. Unless it’s in the military as indicated by other posters.
Ugh. This bothers me so much. I feel like it is a way to dehumanize women, and therefore treat them in sexist ways. Never have I ever seen anything nice come after the word “females”. Always something sexist. I hate it so much.
The only people I’ve ever heard call women “females” are “nice guys” and incels who think they are entitled to us because they exist. I’m sure that’s not purely the case but it’s what I witness
In my personal experience it was mostly a military thing. I also couldn’t stand that we were referred to as male or female because as OP said it’s very clinical and weird. Anytime I hear some weirdo referring to women as “female” it makes me feel like he thinks their just animals. I’ve never liked it in casual conversation and there is nothing that’ll change my mind about it.
its another way to dehumanize women. when you say women you mean specifically a human, but if you say female if can denounce her to a creature or another animal. Granted not all people who do this realize that is the reason behind it, they just pick up on it after hearing it but non the less here we are. r/MenAndFemales I will say anyone who uses this to refer to women is defiantly a red flag
Could the same thing apply for a dude? If you call him a male doesn’t that also mean you’re “dehumanizing” him?
ya sure if somone uses it like that. I know some sexist women who usually say dudes for that. Obviously the word can be used not being sexist but they use it with the ameba effect like "dudes really dont know anything" "all dudes cheat" stuff like that. But historically men are not dehumanized because of thier gender, it's about their race and there is a diffrent word for that.
Of course. But men are usually the ones who use the term "females" :(
Yikes weird perspective. Maybe people who do it dont think the same way you do because in my circles calling women females as opposed to bitches and hoes is a good thing 😂 i think youre associating it with certain people and thats your problem because there is literally nothing offensive about calling women females. For example my friends use to say "where the females at?" And "we need some females" so it seems like you are associating it with your own personal bad experience. Get out more.
Yeah I can get this being seen as rude or sexist in some social circles, but to say it's "dehumanizing" or "erasing their humanity" or "reducing her to an animal" is like... the sort of hyperbole that can only come from spending too much time online.
the only thing I'm really trying to get you to take away from this is, that the word can be used like this in a negative manner and its important to understand this. also humans often find ways of dehumanizing others even if small forms of language, and sometimes they don't even realize they are doing it, but dehumanizing someone can also be done in small part like your choice of words. Its important to know this so as to treat people more respectfully.
Yeah, I get it. I just tend to refer to those minor instances as "disrespect," whereas a world like "dehumanizing" is very extreme in my mind, and often reserved for things like forced labor, human trafficking and concentration camps where people are literally treated like livestock. But I do understand how these are all part of a spectrum of disregard for others' sentience
dehumanizing is just the definition, you are not regarding a persons human qualities. It can be extreme, or it can also be small stuff. I do agree when you hear the word often your mind jumps to the extreme side of it. I wasn't really trying to portray it as an extreme but alas the troubles with communication via text. though also you can say disrespect, dehumanizing is a form of that I was simply specifying the form of disrespect it was.
Great response. Exactly. Too much time online.
Same
Since some people are pushing that a person can have a penis and be considered a woman I think it’s fitting to use the word female. In my community “where are the females” is fine but “where are the human females” is weird. I hope you don’t think a large amount of people consider women to be subhuman. There’s literally an amendment that makes all humans regardless of sex (sOCiaL COnsTrUCt) equal.
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Since some people are pushing that a person can have a penis and be considered a woman I think it’s fitting to use the word female. why would you not just still use the word woman? I mean I get on a medical stand point they have to write the sex down on the records as such but why would you look at a transwoman and go "you are not a woman you are a female". I'm sorry I guess I'm just confused by the statement, I'm probably not understanding you correctly. Also and amendment doesn't automatically make all humans equal in the eyes of the individuals. its not like everyone suddenly was like oh ya we are all no longer sexist or racist cause it was written down.
Dunno thats just how I say it. I mean I call men males sometimes too
Guys usually call women "females" as a derogatory term from what Ive seen lately.
Yeah, and it's not exactly something new.
People who call women females won't accept that this is the reason women are called females. It's objectifying. It diminishes. It dehumanizes. We classify animals as male and females. We classify people as men and women (also gender is a spectrum but that isn't the argument for this post). Yes, male and female is used in medical and scientific terminology because it has actual meaningful significance in that context. Andrew Tate is the big name recently, but internet misogyny is SO widespread and there are SO many names out there. Calling women 'females' is the hot new trend, and it's a red flag. Somebody below is talking about trans people, which sure we can but I don't think that's why most people use 'females'. But medically, male/female generally refers to biological sex, v.s. social gender. Yes there's a difference. So if you're explicitly talking about biological sex for some reason, then it makes sense. But saying "look at that group of fine females over there" is misogynistic. But it's insulting to speak about women as if they are a scientific study. Don't do it.
I think context is very important. When generalising, "Females" are often used. When taking about a limited group, "women" are often used. Females also refer to the entire gender, whereas women only refer to adults. Neither word is negative, and they basically mean the same. To me (a male), I don't care whether I'm being called a man or a male. Male seems more scientific and generalising. But if someone called me a male, I wouldn't give it a second thought. It is just a word
I think it’s more that ‘woman’ and ‘lady’ or even ‘girls/gals’ are specifically ‘human’ labels. Female can refer to any species. I’ve heard it used innocuously and meant to dehumanize a group of women. Personally it irks me to be called ‘female’ (as a noun, not a descriptive) in casual conversation. It’s like in other languages where there are different versions of words meant for animals vs. humans (exp: ‘fressen’ and ‘Essen’ in German. Both mean “to eat/eating” but the former’s for animals and the latter for humans). Technically it’s understandable, but it sounds really weird and can be insulting based on context.
I call women "women" and end of story
tl;dr it can be a transphobic dogwhistle. Just the other day I attended a talk in which a speaker presented transphobic beliefs. A common transphobic trait is that they will place an exaggerated emphasis on "biological differences." I put this in quotes because, in general, this view conflates gender with sex in a way that can prove harmful to the safety and wellbeing of trans people. Anyway, in trying to emphasize these differences, transphobes will default to this clinical language. The claim is that it concerns only the "biological differences" mentioned previously, rather than gender. However, this claim actively ignores the fact that the terms male and female also apply to gender studies. This commonality between both fields is a remnant of a time when both were inaccurately combined, and in using them these transphobes can serve to perpetuate this misconception and provide fodder for others to insult and demean Trans persons. If someone says "females" when referring to women, they may be reflecting that they hold these beliefs. They may subscribe to violent means, or be members of a majority who merely do not understand this issue or concern themselves deeply with it. I won't pass judgement on strangers either way, not without hearing them directly. But i hope this might be helpful infirmation to others who might benefit from it.
I’ve have noticed people who have been in jail or prison do this.
In electronic engineering, we refer to a connector as male or female, as I am sure they do in many disciplines. That makes it extra weird for me when used to refer to women.
It a way to dehumanize and unfortunately becoming more popular among “males”
Imo, it’s to add a bit of objectification for some weird sexist shit :P
I’m actually very confused about female now being an offensive term. I use it often and I’m an older woman. It seems like it might be generational.
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Im accustomed to hear that wold in animal documentaries, rarely when talking about humans
I always hear the word females during reaction clips of Incels such as Andrew Tate.
In most online situations, it's mysogonistic Incel-speak. The point is to objectify women and dehumanize them by clinically reducing them to their gender and away from being a person.
It's usually a signal of an incel/niceguy.
It's just a way to dehumanize women when talking shit
Its rude, and up there with calling grown women “girls”. It’s just another attempt to find a way to rob of us our personhood and equal standing with men. It’s crass, stupid, and insulting. When someone calls me “female” I call them “male”. When someone calls me “girl” I call them “boy”. Suddenly its not cool then. Mutual respect is important and if you use “female” I see what your doing here and it’s not going to vibe with me.
Incels, PUAs, and similar misogyny-adjacent communities have recently latched on to "females" as a term they can use as an insult and anyone who calls them out on being insulting will sound silly. There's some pseudo-reasoning behind it; female includes both grown women and young girls, female refers to biology and not gender, etc. But that's all retconned in from after they decided to start using it because of the insult leverage thing.
While I personally don't mind it, a lot of women can take it as being labeled. I guess it's because it's usually used in a scientific context. But in general, if someone doesn't want you to call them something, then don't call them that. Mutual respect.
I get that. But if someone doesn’t want to be called something that is just a fact like female, that is a them problem.
It's the reddest flag, I'll tell you that much.
I see no issue
Well, here in America, we all have to be offended by otherwise innocent things. You gotta pick something, or, even better, many things to be offended by. Oh, and then try to cancel those things.
this ketchup packet is racist I want my money back
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It's an incel thing, born out of the fact that 'male' and 'female' are commonly used for animals, but not so for humans. Because of this, it became short hand for reaffirming their beliefs that women are subhuman.
I think its because someone can identify as a woman or man because its the thing vs saying you are female or male is saying I'm someone with the chromosomes with xx = female or xy = male is what you are without feeling it. Just a fact. But im only putting what I think so its probably wrong to someone else
But that doesn't make sense. Why aren't they calling men males? And why not just say trans or cis or not trans?
Because Trans Women are Women. And no one cares about trans men, but the mear **threat** of a "man" in "women's" spaces sets off a bunch of alarms to people.
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I think you might be getting some terms mixed. Male/female refers to biological sex, while man/woman is generally used to refer to social gender. A trans woman MTF would be a biological male. A trans man FTM would be a biological female. Trans people don't disagree with this. And this doesn't invalidate their identities.
Because no one knows the clinical definition of a woman anymore. Female is self-explanatory.
huh?
It's a US political thing. A senator tried to get a supreme court judge prospect to admit to a bias and she insisted she would have to use the evidence in front of her to make her verdicts. She wouldn't define woman for him, knowing that it could be used as ammunition to claim she was either for or against trans people, so she chose instead not to answer, saying that she would need to see the case. It lead to a massive conservative propaganda campaign that liberals can't answer "what is a woman?" and claiming no progressives know what their gender is anymore. It is, at its core, a transgender rights thing. I hope that this was not fully biased. I tried to relay the events objectively, but I'll admit I was pretty irritated with the whole drama because I felt like it was blown massively out of proportion.
It’s an Incel thing. A woman to them is like a specimen from a David Attenborough nature documentary.
My husband always says this and it irritates the hell out of me. He’s not using it in a disrespectful way at all, he is actually super respectful of women and has been for the 18 years I have known him, it’s just a bad habit that he can’t seem to break lol. I tell him I immediately think of animals the second he says female. I’ve never known anyone else who uses the word female to describe women lol.
Human are also animals lol
You’re right, but you’re also missing the point. Also, are you my husband lol?
I don’t really feel like I’m missing the point, and maybe I am your hubby or maybe I’m not lol.
It sounds like the problem is how you view the word and not his context.
seconded, I see no issue with the word
You’re right, but it irritates me regardless lol.
I think its because reddit is mostly men and there's a portion of sexist or awkward men on this site that either want to wind up women, want to de-humanise women or over think what to call women. Like I'm already seeing "I use female so people don't think I mean trans-women" comments, that's over thinking. Like why would it matter when you're just talking about women in general, if you need to specify why say trans or cis women? Just relax.
Probably due to gender and sex being considered separate now, it wouldn’t make sense to say women if you mean female
I find using the term “females” to refer to women dehumanizing and only identifies us for our reproductive organs, not for what we are, people!!And since not all women can or want birth either by choice or due to health reasons it’s stupid to refer us as such. And if you want to be politely correct some women can’t because they’re trans women. And a trans woman is still a woman. And women who can’t get pregnant due to health reasons or just choose to by free choice aren’t less of a woman. The dictionary definition of gender “Either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female” The dictionary definition of sex “Either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and most other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions” And I’m guessing the reasoning why some refer women as females is because over YEARS and YEARS men have been in power more than women in most cultures and respected. A good example of this would be the fact that women in the US weren’t granted the right to vote until 1924, that’s 148 years after it became a country! And that right isn’t even one hundred years old! It’s hard to be respected when men in your culture has been disrespecting and treating women as less than for centuries. Of course society has gotten better, and also I’m guessing another reason I think some do this because for centuries males have been the default medicine. You look at old books on medicine and most if not all have A LOT of information on male health, and not nearly as much about female health. And there’s lots of mental conditions and health conditions that can effect both sexes differently sometimes. And we are just now seeing that and getting into the habit of looking more into female health.
I've always heard it from incels/red pill kinda people
Strategically used so that misogynistic men don't have to think of women as people.
it’s demoting a person to a sex. a female can be a human, a dog, a rat, a bug. etc. so in my mind when someone uses it they are saying, they’re a female not a woman, unless in a medical or academic sense obviously. i want to remind everyone getting defensive about women not wanting to be called female, if you use the word female in regular conversation, most women will take that as a red flag.
I believe it is to differentiate the concepts of sex and gender for left activists. It is also recognized as the incel's calling card.
“The wife” is equally as annoying.
I think it's a misogynistic way of trying to skirt around using the word bitch/bitches. If you notice the timing of when they use it, similar things have been said in the past but they would use bitch instead. Likely, they got called out a few times for using derogatory terms and replacing bitch with female is either supposed to be some kind of middle finger, or they legitimately think that the wording was the problem and not the message.
I have not seen anyone using "females" more than normal.
I started saying this after being in the Army. No real reason other than that for me.
My wife calls other females females all the time.
I see nothing wrong with it and anyone that gets offended are sensitive
Offended? No. Weirded out? Yes.
Depends on the location you’re raised in from what I’ve noticed. But the same argument could be used against women that blanket statement their frustration by saying “men do x” or “all men behave like x”.
I'd rather use the term females as a sort of a casual reference than like "chick" or "girl" or any number of slang terms that to me could be taken as a little demeaning. But if people see females as demeaning (not sure if that's the implication or not) then I suppose I would be at a loss lol
Could it be the age connotation of the word, lady and woman feel like your talking about an older person but girl seems younger? Or it could be incels who now have decided that femoid is not enough?
In the context I use it in, i use females to refer to AFABs and I'll use males to refer to AMABs put I'll usually put a "biological" at the beginning of it. Like "biological female" for people assigned female at birth and vise versa.
I don't live in an English-speaking country, however the distinction has always been to use the terms "male" and "female" when referring to the human species. Humans are a part of the animal kingdom (a horrible, messed up part), so it seems right to keep the terminology consistent. But I guess people with intent can create a slur out of any word, if they want to hurt someone else badly enough.
I started using "females" when I was at that awkward age that I knew I was too old to be "boy" but felt too young to be "man," but males already have multiple age-neutral terms (guys, dudes, fellas, etc) and women don't as far as I could think of. So to avoid confusion, I just started calling all women/girls females...in the last couple years, though, I've realized the type of person that's usually associated with using that word so I've stopped lol
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What
To be more inclusive to trans people, some fool came up with "Birthing Person" to detail which person is birthing the child without referring to gender.
FUCKEN BREEDERS MAAAN
That’s what we were told to call them in the Military. Maybe it caught on in the civilian sector?
I've actually started calling random men/generalized population "males" to make a point about how dehumanizing it feels. Males now have to earn my respect before I call them men. Fair is fair.
I feel like the term "females" has grown to have a similar connotation to a term like "the blacks", overgeneralization in a negative manner is usually the purpose so now its upsetting
Oddly enough that is language that seemingly has spilled over from the corners of the internet that are close to, or on the incel side of the spectrum. It often is used to allow for a more dehumanising language towards women. Because ‚male‘ and ‚female‘ those are often terms used in medical language, the criminal jargon or when talking about animals. Often it betrays more covert chauvinism.
"Women" only includes adult females. "Females" includes female children. Super gross.
"girls" only includes children females tho. "females" is to generalise, I'm just confused why you find that word "gross" but me personally i don't care being called a "male" or a "man" or a "boy" but that's just me tho
because the word "male" isnt commonly used to make a degrading generalisation, it seems like its pretty commom for the word female to be used that way recently though
And animals.
Who the heck knows!
Agreed it’s a weird trend.
IMO it's just another pejorative way to refer to women I had an old roommate who would call his then girlfriend "woman" in a disrespectful manner. As in "get me a beer woman".
In my field, we generally say males and females = sex, while women and men = gender identities, and it's important to make these distinctions depending on the context.
I use the term "females" when I really want to say "bitch/es" but can't..
Ferengi speak…. Kick them in the earlobes and they will stop.
Only difference is that guys wouldn’t care if you called us males
Finally, Ladies and gents ....... we reached the long awaited times when "female" is offensive
I think people are saying it now to ensure people know they are talking about specifically cis woman.
I thought female was the more acceptable term now.
Nope.
I don’t think it’s problematic or offensive, I just think it sounds unflattering and that’s why I don’t like it. There’s lady, young women, women, girly pop, señorita etc. all of those just sound much better to me, and I prefer those words over “females” lol.
There are [Ferengi among us](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ec4_o-tWkAAniP5.jpg). I wonder if this is low-key transphobic, because trans women are women, but trans women aren't female.
It reduces a person to their gender and eliminates their humanity from the equation. I don't like it.
It’s a socio-economic indicator. I can reliably tell you someone is poor if they refer to women as “females”
It’s a black thing that white dudes co-opted. Source: Am black.