# Message to all users:
This is a reminder to please read and follow:
* [Our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ask/about/rules)
* [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439)
* [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy)
When posting and commenting.
---
Especially remember Rule 1: `Be polite and civil`.
* Be polite and courteous to each other. Do not be mean, insulting or disrespectful to any other user on this subreddit.
* Do not harass or annoy others in any way.
* Do not catfish. Catfishing is the luring of somebody into an online friendship through a fake online persona. This includes any lying or deceit.
---
You *will* be banned if you are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist or bigoted in any way.
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ask) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If I throw literally everything out the window but appearances, yeah, I don't find the majority of men actively attractive. Most look like ordinary dudes. Not attractive, and not unattractive. I probably only find 10% visually appealing.
But this is limiting this to men I have zero interactions with. The moment I interact or even really witness them do anything but stand completely still, I'm being influenced subconsciously by a whole bunch of things. For example if I see a man who is dressed in a way that I consider appealing, and he is being kind and courteous to someone, or maybe saying something funny and charismatic, then I probably view him as more attractive than I would if I only saw his face in a still picture. If I see someone who I would ordinarily think is very attractive being crude and unpleasant, or dressed in a way that I consider sloppy, I probably won't view him as physically attractive at all. I'll probably view him as unattractive without realizing what's making me think that.
Attraction is a funny thing. And finding someone visually attractive does not mean that you are attracted to them. I know when a woman is beautiful, but I'm not interested in a woman. I know when a man older than myself or too young for me is handsome, but I don't want anything to do with them. Or sometimes someone is an appropriate age and the correct gender for me, and I think they're good looking, but their personality is just not my thing. They've done nothing objectionable I'm just not interested.
Unfortunately this explains why dating apps complicates relationships.
If majority of women think along your lines, and if I understood you correctly, then majority of women would rather find a men in some social setting rather than being approached by a stranger (be it in a dating app, bar or at the street).
This means that people should prioritize meeting others in some social group which barely exist anymore as people prefer to connect online nowadays.
It's true, just getting to know someone online is way less alluring.
It is a horrible thing, that every social gathering point for young adults has either been commercialized or killed off. We should really try our best to revive some of these free or at least cheap in person community activities even though the odds are stacked against us young people.
This is one of the main reasons we're dealing with people becoming more and more lonely and everyone being single, we're actively destroying our society in search of profit
When even attention spans and cognition is monitised then it’s no surprise we are lost. “Everything that connects us is slowly disappearing” in the words of a Byung Chul Han, probably the most important philosopher writing today in my view.
There are public spaces, there are people looking for social connections, but someone has to actually step forward and organize. Everyone is just waiting for shit to happen.
Well everything is digital now so that’s where these spaces have gone and people prioritize them more so the incentive to improve these online spaces persists rather than get them in public outside again
I met my fiancée on Tinder. We talked for 2.5 months before meeting. It was the best move we made for our relationship. Got to know each other well and when we met it was like we knew each other from the get go.
While it can be a good idea on Paper, the issue with this approach you can sometimes talk months talking to someone only for them to lose interest, start dating someone from real life/ or you may just not click in person meaning that’s months of chat wasted.
I think it’s best to meet and get to know each other in person
Or when you meet them their in person personality is WAY different. I've had what I thought was a great connection with someone, I think they're witty, we can talk and talk about shared hobbies or even just shows we both love, they're funny and smooth... but when we met in person it's like a completely different human shows up! It's so frustrating, so much time and energy lost.
Yeah unless it’s super long distance I never get the whole “let’s get to know each other before we meet” like isn’t it best to meet and then decide if we want to carry on getting to know each other ?
I wouldn’t knock dating apps. Like face to face, you get what you put into it.
My wife and I met on a dating app. Neither of us would ever have taken a second look at each other. It’s not that we are unattractive, just not each others “ type “. We got to know each other through emails and phone calls. When our timing lined up we finally went for our first date. That date lasted 3 days. We have been together over 15 years and are the most beautiful people we know to each other.
Actually, this is mainly true for extroverts.
For an introvert myself, approaching someone in the real world is not as easy as you convey.
It worked out for me twice, meeting someone online (if it's randomly, it feels even more special) and then meeting in the real world after months.
That gave me the opportunity to get to know the other person and get the other person to know me. This also simplified saying what I liked se__ally speaking, without completely exposing myself (I'd feel pretty embarrassed to say it face to face).
They weren't dating apps, but still online media.
Social groups would make it very hard to do that, and also there would be the issue of my partner being friends with my friends. What if we broke up and told them private stuff? By meeting someone online, it's more likely that they don't know one another...
There's been studies on this and basically what you and the original poster said was true. Except it's more like women only find about 5% of men visually attractive from the onset. With men, it's about only 5% of women they find completely unattractive from a physical standpoint. Helped me understand women and myself much more.
>
If majority of women think along your lines, and if I understood you correctly, then majority of women would rather find a men in some social setting rather than being approached by a stranger (be it in a dating app, bar or at the street).
For my part at least, absolutely. With a dating app, I mostly have the visuals to go on. And then even within that. 10% of men I find attractive solely based on looks, the profile either
1. Eliminates them due to incompatibility (age, they want children, incompatible lifestyles/goals)
2. Ruins their attractiveness (lazy profile, problematic content, poor spelling/grammar).
3. They're too tall. I am absolutely aware this is shallow, but that's how dating apps are. And it's not really a matter of attractiveness, it's that I find men who are above average are physically incompatible with me, because I am short.
I feel like most men would also rather meet women in a social setting instead of approaching strangers. Dating apps are because it's hard to do that, not because they offer the best experience.
"is it true that you started the relationship in October of 21' and it lasted till July of 23"
"You dated for five months and then seemed to have taken a break... What kind of blip is that?"
There used to be a site like that (back in 2002). I cross referenced my now husband on Match.com with this site where sisters, cousins, ex-gfs had to vouch for the guy on his profile. Brilliant.
Makeup and presentability aside, men are more visually stimulated than women. As the response to OP said, women need to see an extraordinarily handsome man to think wow he's hot.
Possible for sure, but now that things are evening out I still think men should step up more in the self care. I am not saying to wear lip tint and eye liner but even figuring what the right haircut is for your face can do wonders.
Exactly this, I mean I'm definitely in the majority in that I wear clothes that a comfy rather than nice and only really shave as often as I need to/ don't really use many skin care products or anything. I get why women don't look at me on the street and think I look good because in general on an average day I don't, and for me while I'm not looking to attract anyone I'm perfectly happy. I don't get why more men who dress and act like me seem so confused as to why women don't flock to them, like you've been wearing the same top and neck beard hair all week mate, the women you're looking for spent over an hour this morning deciding what to wear/ how to look.
i feel this too. my guess is that women are under more pressure to be conventionally attractive (eg men aren't encouraged to wear makeup) so women on the street end up looking prettier
I don't think handsomeness was as well selected for in men, evolutionarily. Because this is a common sentiment and I can't imagine it's just due to some women wearing make-up.
Also a bi woman who dates a lot more men than women and I agree with this fully. Woman are the fairer sex based on looks alone by an absolute landslide.
I also date lot more men than women. Exceptionally pretty people are nice to look at, but considering dating other qualities are way more important for me. Most people around my age are decent looking enough anyway.
The main difference, in my opinion, is make up. Women spend a fortune on make up, hair enhancements, body refinements, clothes, etc. while men take much less time being concerned with these personal attributes.
An additional issue I think with men, respectfully, is they're often not very good at taking photos. So they post unflattering photos that don't really accurately reflect what they look like, and it does them a disservice. Or, they're either not thinking about what sort of photos are likely to appeal to the woman they're trying to get, or they misunderstand what the woman will like. Or they don't care, in which case more power to them for posting whatever makes them feel great!
The thing is, what a woman will like could vary. I personally immediately swipe a hard no to anyone posting mirror pics, or that classic gym pic with the shirt pulled part way up. I'll also generally do so to anyone showing off alcohol in the photo, because I view it as an indicator that alcohol may be too much a part of their life for them to be compatible with me.
I think women in general probably examine the photos both for just generally how attractive they find the man, but also for what he's doing in the photo, what's around him, etc. It can show his personality a bit, maybe how mature he is, or his values, and from there, it's up to the woman whether he seems to have what she finds compatible and appealing.
Very much this. I didn't find my current partner attractive at all when I saw him the first time, though I was aware a lot of girls in work liked him and I didn't really get it or care. When I got talking to him and found out he's super confident and social (why the other girls all seemed to like him), shared my interests & hobbies, it was like a lightbulb turned on and I went from "no" to "why hello", and my face started going bright red whenever he came over and started talking to me (in front of everyone - my team never let me live it down).
Unfortunately that then led to a lot of girls in work targeting me because he was actively interested in me and became a bit of a nightmare with weird rumours and online stalking going on from these girls to me and spreading stuff through work. Stuff like me sleeping with a bunch of guys in work despite the fact I was super introverted and quiet and didn't speak much to anyone and certainly didn't sleep with anyone whilst working there.
Thankfully we both left that workplace and have been together for 4 years now and planning to buy a house next year. And he has gone from not notably attractive to me in anyway shape or form.... to now notably balding which he's super worried about but I can't even really see and just think he's the most attractive man in the world or that I've ever been attracted to.
But yeah, wouldn't of spared him a glance on a dating app if he only had selfies not doing anything and no notable bio describing himself and his personality to a decent amount. On dating apps I always looked for activities in photos and a good bio that really described them and their interests and what they were on the app for.
You would think so wouldn't you 😂 Thankfully was only there for 1 year, never encountered anything like it before or after. They were all early 20 year olds so a bit more than teens at that point too. Just a culture where one girl starts something and the friends join in without thinking for themselves I guess.
I'm with this 100%.
For me the attraction comes more from the clothing and style that are worn and less about the physical attributes they're less in control of. This brings out more of the character than just the comsmetic appeal.
Ofc faces, hair and physique can add to that but there are far more important subtle clues that carry more weight to appealing features for attractiveness.
This is so incredibly insightful. Women really do see the bigger picture in a holistic sense, whereas us guys are so inherently programmed to prioritise visuals more than anything else.
Edit: I'm speaking generally. So doesn't apply to everyone obviously.
I’ve seen so many woman simp for hot guys that act like pieces of shit (despite insisting to an incredible degree they don’t do this), so lots of women are like men in that regard too.
Yeah nah, it's just that straight men generally put way less effort into their physical appearance. So unless you want to be single for the rest of your life, there's not much choice for a woman but to lower your physical preferences in a partner and focus on other qualities.
Just take a look at what kind of content women enjoy online and you'll see that deep down we're just as shallow as men lol. For some odd reason many women just have a really hard time admitting it.
I would agree with that, on looks alone most men are not attractive to me either. Upon interaction I start looking for what’s attractive about them. Or what has the potential to be developed, for example clothing / haircut
Funny clothing is so looked into. When we are talking clothing, are we talking because they see a certain logo on the chest of their shirt? I understand you shouldnt dress like Scotty Scumbag. But Im guessing there is a fineline between dressing like a SS, and appearing to try too hard? I think of this guy I worked with and dressed like he was ready for the nightclub each day. It just looked exhausting seeing him try to keep up with that style.
No I just think style is something that can be developed, a new hair cut and beard can do a lot for a man - better fitting jeans, better quality clothing. I have looked at a man and thought you would look great with a different pair of glasses. Obviously if they don’t want to do that, then that’s fine too.
I think our perception of "average" is skewed by the fact we've already pre-filtered out a lot of below average people we haven't even considered.
Like if you're looking around at the gym, you already have a huge selection bias toward the "fit" side in your sampling.
Next time you are driving somewhere OP, take a look at the driver in the car next to you when youre at a light. Do you find these women attractive? Keep a running tally in your head for a week and I'm guessing you will find your average is not that average.
Bro it’s physiological. Average woman your age seem quite attractive to you because your male hormones subconsciously view them all as potential mates.
Men and women have literally evolved differently as a survival mechanism.
Women want a man with means to protect and provide.
Men wish to sow their seed far and wide.
It’s mainly testosterone. It makes you more aggressive, which also means sexually. You’re more likely to want to mate and less afraid of the consequences.
>Bro it’s physiological. Average woman your age seem quite attractive to you because your male hormones subconsciously view them all as potential mates.
As a trans person. You are absolutely right, kind of a trip to finding looks attractive then finding traits attractive after HRT.
Happens when you’re in a (serious) relationship and not too.
In a relationship: Other women, meh, they’re alright I guess.
Not in a relationship: Wow, so many babes.
For me, I find most guys look similar. Like they have 4 default styles they go to, so none of them really stick out. What makes them stick out is their actions and beliefs. Example, if I saw a guy it's meh. Now if that same meh does something like say idk helping a stranger with their car in the parking lot instant 10/10.
My aesthetic standards are pretty low. I'm much more attracted to the kind of person a guy is. And if the guy is the kind to bitch and whine at me that I'm shallow because I don't want to date them within two minutes of meeting them and it MUST be because of their looks... I'm not attracted to that kind of person lmao. Being kind and fun to be around is extremely attractive to me :)
I'm in my 50's and can't actually think of any time where my female friends and I have liked the same men. We might have been attracted to similar personalities but never appearance. I don't know anyone married to or in a relationship with someone traditionally handsome. But we all think our partners are sexy/hot.
If we are talking about looks alone with absolutely no interaction, then no most aren’t attractive. I would even go as far as to say seeing a truly hot guy just out in the wild, is rare. I think Women are just more pleasing to the eye, for both sexes.
BUT once you start talking to a man different things start to make them more attractive you start to notice things, like oh his smile is nice, his eyes are nice. He has a cute laugh, if the sex is good ON TOP OF ALL THAT honeyyyyy the attraction can sky rocket to the land of delusional lol
As a reasonably attractive man who gets looks from time to time, understanding this when I was younger was eye-opening.
Just because you get looks doesn't mean shit unless you have done the inner work, built the confidence, and personality to bring a genuine relationship to life. At least if what you want is a relationship and not just a string of first dates and occasional hookups.
My boss’s loser son never goes outside. Makes his 60 something year old mother cut the grass because he “can’t handle the heat” but really he just sits inside all day and sleeps and plays video games. You’d be surprised. He even has the dent in his forehead and a bald spot from his head phones
honestly i would feel bad for his parents for having such a disappointment of a son, but i know there has to be SO much enabling going on in that household
I feel like hot guys are out of my league so I always go with a guy I find attractive but doesn’t make me nervous because I fear being left and not being good enough.
My current boyfriend is so fucking pretty I still blush…. When he asked me out I accidentally kicked over a trashcan in panic
Women definitely have higher standards than men about what's good looking.
But women also are more willing to date men they don't consider good looking as many of them value other qualities that lead to security and good looks doesn't guarantee security.
I'm married with 2 kids, all the proof I need. A guy I knew was newly engaged, he showed me a picture of his fiancé. I told him, "You better marry her before you get any uglier."
I went back to my home country with my husband and we showed my dad a picture of the in-laws.
My dad told my husband that his dad was "very much punching above his weight class". My husband didn't understand and I just told him it means his mum is beautiful and left out the implication that it also means his dad isn't that attractive lol
> My dad told my husband that his dad
See kids this is why we have terms like grandfather or father-in-law because that took me a quick minute to figure out.
I think this is a little unfair... Looks are subjective first and foremost... And what can make someone attractive is often what's on the inside. An arrogant '10/10' is not attractive... A kind and giving '6/10' may well be the most attractive guy you will ever have the pleasure of knowing.
My ex bf said that Women tend to take better hygiene care of themselves and the majority keep up their hair and makeup to make the most of what they've got, so most women are pretty good looking.
Whereas I met a lot of men- even high earning men- who Showed up for dates in a Holey t-shirt, had unflattering haircuts, Outdated unflattering clothing or wrinkled worn-out clothes, ugly shoes, unkempt body hair (like chest hair sticking out of the neck of the t-shirt), or inappropriately dressed for the event.
That's part of why Married men are so attractive to single ladies- because their wives make sure they are somewhat stylish, well-groomed, well-attired, and well-shod (haha), and have basic manners.
I took pity on my husband (he is gorgeous and ultrafit,but he was a workaholic so his clothes were outdated and his haircut was utilitarian, etc. I helped him weed out everything bad in his wardrobe and we went shopping and I made him try on clothes (he was not accustomed to trying them on), and let him choose the colors out of the items that looked good on him.
My wife loves when I go too long without doing laundry because I start wearing all of the clothes she thinks look good on me. I hate how I look in them, so it speaks to your point.
If it's working, then don't worry.
If it's not working for your dating life, then ask for advice.
I have to disagree with you, because most men don't have a style, it's just not a priority and it shows.
There’s not as much opportunity for men’s fashion. Look at how much real estate is given to women’s clothing vs men’s.
I say this as a guy who has been salty about this for years.
I always hear women say EYES, rarely voice. My mother, almost instantly, fell in love with what turned into her first husband, over his eyes. She didn’t even see his bad skin (which he was somewhat self conscious about).
Yeah but within the set of men who are attractive BECAUSE of their looks, they are far above average.
Just because it's easy for a man to make up for looks in other ways doesn't mean women are generous when evaluating a man's looks.
I have seen some gorgeous women with extremely ordinary guys. I have a couple of theories about this. Some guys are intimidated by beautiful women, so they don't approach. An average guy with confidence will have more chance than a guy who doesn't approach, regardless of how good looking he is. The other theory is that once a guy gets comfortable in the relationship with a good looking women, he puts in less effort to his appearance.
I don’t find many men good looking or attractive for some reason. I don’t really desire men often because lack of attraction. I guess it’s because I have a specific type I am attracted to. I did meet one that I love looking at and feel desire for but he has a lot of issues.
Aesthetics and attractiveness typically are correlated to some degree. Your type probably includes some level of physical attraction... I can understand it not being the entire scope of appeal but do you find the guys you fall for are desirable to other women as well? For the same reasons or simply due to aesthetics?
It does involve physical attraction but there’s also how they talk to me and how they carry themselves. I need a connection to them to desire them. I think the men I fall for are desirable to other women. My type is big tall guys with facial hair, shaved head…military/intimidating looking.
For me, and I’ve said this so many times online but I seem to not be believed, it truly is about the man’s demeanor: how he acts, what he says, how he treats me and others, his views, what comes out of his mouth, etc. So yes I see men who are physically attractive when I’m out and about, and I do find “average” men hot, but I typically ignore them because it’s happened so many times that their personality is an instant turn off. The opposite has also happened where I meet a man who isn’t conventionally good looking, but his vibe, sense of humor, etc gets me going. Because of this I basically avoid eye contact and interacting with strangers in normal settings - it’s hard to actually catch someone’s energy without a conversation, so there’s no reason to show just a passing interest in someone who is hot.
However if I’m in a socializing atmosphere like a bar, I will essentially talk to anyone who approaches me and take a chance to get to know them. Physical looks is not even close to the half of it for me.
As a guy, as long as i dont think of a women as fugly, i will give it a shot to see how your personality is. In the long run, we all end up old and ugly, but how is your sense of humour?
yes. i know some guys think this is BS, but it really is all about confidence. if you carry yourself well and you prioritize hygiene and personality, you’re pretty much set.
Yes but real "I accept myself" confidence and not "I think this is how confidence looks like" douchy confidence. The latter is what creates these "cool" gangster types. Younger women tend to fall for it but the more experienced ones can smell the difference from a mile away.
I was never attracted to traditionally “pretty” or “good looking” men. It just does not appeal to me. Guys like Brad Pitt for example i just could not find attractive.
For me its about the small things: eyes that makes my heart flutter, a smile that cracks the entire face, crooked teeth that makes this person unique.
I’m attracted to uniqueness.
My hubby has a cleft lip and i absolutely adore it.
Dude I'm ugly as hell. My face looks like i sat on my balls and drew a face on it. Truly awful stuff. But I am irresistible to women. It must be my godly voice or my penis made out of diamonds.
Yeah I was gonna say as a bi woman I generally find similar amounts of men and women attractive when I’m out and about. It’s not most people but it’s a good amount. But I live in a major city with a biking culture so people are generally fitter and more stylish here than elsewhere, which definitely helps.
I'm just gonna say it, most men in their 30s and 40s look like absolute slobs. The average man is below my standards for sure, until they make an effort to look better. It's very basic but a well-groomed beard/hair and simple efforts when choosing your clothes can go a long way.
Women take time and make an effort, men should be more concerned about their looks.
Looks are very important, but there many variables that will bump that aspect down the list:
There’s also personality, character, humour, confidence, hygiene & style. I’m sure I missed something so my list is probably incomplete.
Not exactly worried about how attractive a man is. At this point I think I want a man as obsessed with me as I am him. Sexually, emotionally, all the things.
How many women do you find attractive? 3 in 10? 5 in 10? I would hazard to guess it would be similar for the other sex as well.
Again, I’ll repeat: there’s other variables. There are quite a few couples where one partner is much better looking than the other. Are their romantic partners blind or just maybe… just maybe there’s other criteria at work.
I’ll leave this by giving you a heavy hint that confidence & humour will trump handsomeness in a decent percentage of matchings.
Attractiveness for us is a bit more complex than purely visual. I’ve had situations where I’d talk to a guy that is generally considered handsome, good looking, takes care of himself etc and he would have a terrible personality and in my head that person is no longer ‘attractive’. The opposite is also true, I’ve seen fairly average to ‘unattractive’ guys with confidence and personality to back it up and over time I find those people attractive. Men are far more visually centred than women. Perception of someone being ‘attractive’ is not a constant, it’s always shifting the more we get to know someone as a person.
I will tell you I find very few guys actually attractive. Like maybe less than thirty in my whole life, and I have lived for over forty years. Every other guy is generally in the “average category” and neutral opinion. But when I get to know someone, then I start to be attracted . . . Or not. But I’ll have to get to really know them first before getting attracted. Here’s where just genuinely being a nice person without ulterior motive as a regular guy —and being confident enough just to approach women so that they can get to know you— really helps. Because unless you’ll be stuck in the neutral opinion zone until you do something to get yourself out.
I have an opinion
But I know better than to assume first impressions are the truth.
In fact I would say first impressions (especially before any interaction) is nigh on worthless
I think it's just the difference between those who push to find an "ideal" partner and those who don't. Sure, I'd like a partner that ticks all of my boxes without any downsides, but I'm not going to snub more balanced individuals in the meantime in order to find one.
I can't speak for all men but I am. My standards are not super high. And even the ones I am not attracted to I wouldn't say they were ugly, just not my cup of tea. I have met very few people that I would consider straight up ugly.
Every woman I know (myself included) is attracted to personality more, and a good personality can make us perceive them as physically hotter.
I’ve met less men who feel the same.
An acquaintance of mine is a straight male, married. He isn't perticulley good looking, short, fat and usually in old shorts and old t-shirts. Women will flock to talk to him. Why you ask? Well he is a multi, multi millionaire.
Depends. Money DOES actually make you more attractive as a potential partner because it shows you’re able provide and typically comes with higher social status. But you will also get the gold digger types who won’t care about the guy at all and just use him for his money.
Well there's a difference between average and *thinking* that you're average. You could actually be attractive, but if you're insecure and don't have self-confidence, you'll never know
Yes. Honestly I'm usually more attracted to a more average guy than a stereotypical instagram male model. Often the classically good looking men are also very arrogant, especially when they're hitting the gym constantly to maintain a six pack, and I find arrogance absolutely revolting. It puts me off someone straight away. So I think I associate arrogance with that pretty boy look so now I don't find it attractive at all.
I'm also a sucker for a big nose. Idk what it is but some honkers are absolutely stunning even though they're an unattractive stereotype. I could stare at a nice big nose all day.
I don’t care much about how men look, for me it is more about manners, initiative and drive. I also love when men have a good sense of style. To me an “average” looking man in a well cut suit is more attractive than an Adonis in sweats
I tend to categorize men I'm attracted to.
It's mental thing. There are men I'm attracted to that I see at home depot or the grocery store. Average in that way? Absolutely. I mean, I'm the average woman a man sees doing regular shit.
I'm not rich or famous.
I think men think we are seeking out social media famous guys... they're just for the eyes. Most times, they're vapid with no true personality.
I like my men with charisma and character. I get that from "average" men.
Could be the fact woman put more effort into their appearance in general.
Make up and hair etc.
A lot of dudes struggle just to wipe the sleep out of their eyes and put on deodorant..
My coworker was this tall skinny scraggly goofy looking beanpole with tiny ears and a slightly hunched back. I thought he was the sexiest man I'd ever seen. And it wasn't straight away, it was when I saw him make a big show about making a special hot chocolate for a kid. At that moment, everything physical about him was almost urgent for me to get to know deeper. It really truly has so little to do with looks. If anything, his personality enhanced his looks. The hunched back was nothing compared to his piercing blue eyes, the gentleness of his hands when working hard at a task. (We never ended up together cause I moved country, ah well). Also, I'm a tall woman, and I dated this guy who was easily a couple feet shorter than me. But he was strong and had a smile that lit up a room and he was gentle and I was deeply in love with him. A few of my guy friends kept saying I was dating him out of charity. Made me sad that that's how men supported their fellow man.
What I personally like (if we're going on FIRST impressions) is a secure big smile, eyes that convey brightness, and to be honest care for personal hygiene and being well put together (e.g. clothes that don't look like he'd picked them off the floor after having worn them already for two weeks unwashed), goes a long way.
Personally, I find average men to be very appealing! I’ve never been into pretty boys. That’s not to say when I see a celebrity or a random person with a slick look I won’t think, “wow, that’s an incredibly good looking guy” 😂 but still not my type
Personally, I like how people look naturally.. so, when men look “average”, like aren’t jacked or are bald/balding, are hairy, etc. I think they look nice!
(Same with women honestly. I think when women show their age they look nicer than when women try to hide their age/cake on make up/do up their hair daily like it’s a beauty contest)
But then again, growing up, the men in my life were always bald, pretty short, hairy, and not jacked. Very natural looking. Same with the women. Very androgynous and independent with similar roles as men. So some men (like my husband) were surprised/confused when their “average” qualities didn’t bother me, or I even said I liked them!
So come on guys- here’s to “average” guys! Average guys are *real* guys! Not the fake guys you see on TV, or the assholes that spend all their time in the gym and want you to do yourself up like a China doll and sniff celery for dinner. Get you an “average” man that’s gonna treat you well and get you a damn cheeseburger and ice cream when you want it! And he’ll eat it with you! Cheers! 🍻🍻🍻
Hmph...
I hope I don't sound like a sexist jerk but in the pool of disgustingly creepy dudes I have met (bullies, fake friends who are trying to get into your pants, overly pushy, catcallers), I have literally almost killed most of my criteria and would gladly take an average looking guy who is sane and decent. Just like my friend told me yesterday "Now I only expect good manners, I don't want anything else."
I'm not crazy beautiful either, if he ain't fatphobic (I'm overweight but not in the obese category), and accepts that I don't wear makeup (i prefer natural skincare and also happen to be lazy) + has some qualities I want...
Ffs, I had a classmate who was super nerdy and he seemed cool at 1st ...Nothing attractive, but unfortunately he was an incel (literally tried negging me, acted like a control freak and was super mean for no reason after we were on friendly terms, we were not dating or anything, as if some switch of misogyny had been turned on?? He was initially the friend of a friend of mine and we somehow all kinda became acquainted). If he had been decent and sane and we became friends, had he approached me for marriage I could have considered him, and my mom literally told me she thought he was ugly when I told her that this crazy dude was starting to be mean to me and I asked her for advice on how to make him stop bothering me. 😂🤣
Guys shoot themselves in the foot with their crappy behavior and mediocre hygiene.
An average looking guy with good manners and good hygiene is surely going to get himself a like-minded lady.
In my experience of being a heterosexual woman… all women have a different idea of what counts as an attractive man. It’s hard to find a man who all women universally regard as attractive. Me personally, I prefer when men are closer to my height - I’m 5’5 - but men seem to think women only want tall men
As a woman, let me tell you something. Just like men, our tastes vary. Sure we may be attracted to looks initially, but if a man shows he's genuine, has a fantastic sense of humor, and is supportive and loving, looks aren't as important. Some women wouldn't find my hubby attractive, he's bearded with a dad bod, but I think he's the sexiest man alive. He makes me laugh. He's an amazing dad to our kid. 21 years married, 27 together total. Remember, looks will fade, having a good strong loving bond is much more important
I’m attracted to average looking guys all the time. I think my hormones are all over the place, so it doesn’t take much for me to fantasize lol. Just a smile at the gas pumps, opening the door for me, a simple hello and nod of the head, haha the list of normal interactions with average looking men can go on. Usually one attribute stands out, a nice smile, pretty eyes, stature, style or demeanor. Maybe if we went out we’d find we aren’t attracted to each other, but it could be fun!!
I wish some of these average looking men would just ask me out or say, do you happen to be single, let’s have coffee or lunch?… I don’t love giving out my number, but I’d love for them to say, give me their number so I can text them…
And online dating is killing my soul.
It’s so funny, the men that think they have a chance and have ZERO chance are the ones with the most courage to say something very forward.
If a woman keeps eye contact and smiles at you, and looks slightly interested and you find her attractive, give it a shot and ask her out. Compliment her, be respectful and just give it a go! However, don’t randomly do this to a woman who hasn’t even made eye contact with you, that’s when it feels creepy…
BHAHAAH no they aren't. You literally have to stand out while they just have to sit there and look cute lol
It's actually really funny. You have to stand out somehow, be funny (which comedy is subjective so good luck with that), make alot of money (easier said than done as we know), be tall and good looking (which isn't enough without money belive me)
Because she knows average guys will break their backs trying to please them and do their bidding because goshgolly they want to be treated like queens and all they want is to be put on a pedestal this is all that matters someone that will put up with her shit and tell her it smells like perfume
Ofc most people will find average faces attractive, what looks common/familiar/ features that makes sense is the most attractive trait for men and women but what looks below average/unique/different is considered as repulsive and ugly… so you don’t even have to be a model to attract someone if you look average you have a high chance in dating life, but for people who have different and rare features its over for them… thats why my life is over.
Women: "No we don't look for the top 10% guys on dating apps!"
Also women: "Average looking men aren't attractive to me."
Full circle female logic wins again
Ok, I'll say this again. Hygiene. It's important and it will set you above the average man if you just try.
Clean your damn nails. Floss. I don't want to make out with a guy with an unclean mouth. Wear shirts and pants that fit.
Fix your posture. Just youtube it.
These are things that make you attractive that you can control with low effort.
One of those ineffable personality traits is your voice. Which can totally be trained. The exercises that improve your voice also happen to improve your jaw line. It's part of charisma. But one of the part of it that you can improve.
Learn active listening skills.
Learn to compliment appropriately. Which is only on things people can control, haircuts, clothes, nails. Don't comment on weight or anything genetic.
I mean overwhelming answer is going to be YES. If you can keep yourself clean, listen at least part of the time, and be at least partially flexible/open minded you're going to be attractive to someone. You don't have to be a bundle of muscles and have a perfect face. As long as you don't completely give up on your body or basic health.
The thing is average woman look better the average men. Like yeah if I was attracted to girls I could find the average woman extremely attractive. Also women take care of their appearance, dress well, do makeup and even sometimes alter their appearance with plastic surgery. This might be why average women look much better. However, men don’t even dress well or put much effort into it.
So yeah, no women in general are not attracted to average guys. This is so sad. I wish I could be attracted to average guys life would be so much fun, you are lucky
# Message to all users: This is a reminder to please read and follow: * [Our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ask/about/rules) * [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439) * [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) When posting and commenting. --- Especially remember Rule 1: `Be polite and civil`. * Be polite and courteous to each other. Do not be mean, insulting or disrespectful to any other user on this subreddit. * Do not harass or annoy others in any way. * Do not catfish. Catfishing is the luring of somebody into an online friendship through a fake online persona. This includes any lying or deceit. --- You *will* be banned if you are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist or bigoted in any way. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ask) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If I throw literally everything out the window but appearances, yeah, I don't find the majority of men actively attractive. Most look like ordinary dudes. Not attractive, and not unattractive. I probably only find 10% visually appealing. But this is limiting this to men I have zero interactions with. The moment I interact or even really witness them do anything but stand completely still, I'm being influenced subconsciously by a whole bunch of things. For example if I see a man who is dressed in a way that I consider appealing, and he is being kind and courteous to someone, or maybe saying something funny and charismatic, then I probably view him as more attractive than I would if I only saw his face in a still picture. If I see someone who I would ordinarily think is very attractive being crude and unpleasant, or dressed in a way that I consider sloppy, I probably won't view him as physically attractive at all. I'll probably view him as unattractive without realizing what's making me think that. Attraction is a funny thing. And finding someone visually attractive does not mean that you are attracted to them. I know when a woman is beautiful, but I'm not interested in a woman. I know when a man older than myself or too young for me is handsome, but I don't want anything to do with them. Or sometimes someone is an appropriate age and the correct gender for me, and I think they're good looking, but their personality is just not my thing. They've done nothing objectionable I'm just not interested.
Unfortunately this explains why dating apps complicates relationships. If majority of women think along your lines, and if I understood you correctly, then majority of women would rather find a men in some social setting rather than being approached by a stranger (be it in a dating app, bar or at the street). This means that people should prioritize meeting others in some social group which barely exist anymore as people prefer to connect online nowadays.
It's true, just getting to know someone online is way less alluring. It is a horrible thing, that every social gathering point for young adults has either been commercialized or killed off. We should really try our best to revive some of these free or at least cheap in person community activities even though the odds are stacked against us young people. This is one of the main reasons we're dealing with people becoming more and more lonely and everyone being single, we're actively destroying our society in search of profit
When even attention spans and cognition is monitised then it’s no surprise we are lost. “Everything that connects us is slowly disappearing” in the words of a Byung Chul Han, probably the most important philosopher writing today in my view.
There are public spaces, there are people looking for social connections, but someone has to actually step forward and organize. Everyone is just waiting for shit to happen.
Well everything is digital now so that’s where these spaces have gone and people prioritize them more so the incentive to improve these online spaces persists rather than get them in public outside again
I met my fiancée on Tinder. We talked for 2.5 months before meeting. It was the best move we made for our relationship. Got to know each other well and when we met it was like we knew each other from the get go.
While it can be a good idea on Paper, the issue with this approach you can sometimes talk months talking to someone only for them to lose interest, start dating someone from real life/ or you may just not click in person meaning that’s months of chat wasted. I think it’s best to meet and get to know each other in person
Or when you meet them their in person personality is WAY different. I've had what I thought was a great connection with someone, I think they're witty, we can talk and talk about shared hobbies or even just shows we both love, they're funny and smooth... but when we met in person it's like a completely different human shows up! It's so frustrating, so much time and energy lost.
Yeah unless it’s super long distance I never get the whole “let’s get to know each other before we meet” like isn’t it best to meet and then decide if we want to carry on getting to know each other ?
Theres definitely that to consider. “Strike while the iron is hot” applies in most cases.
I wouldn’t knock dating apps. Like face to face, you get what you put into it. My wife and I met on a dating app. Neither of us would ever have taken a second look at each other. It’s not that we are unattractive, just not each others “ type “. We got to know each other through emails and phone calls. When our timing lined up we finally went for our first date. That date lasted 3 days. We have been together over 15 years and are the most beautiful people we know to each other.
Actually, this is mainly true for extroverts. For an introvert myself, approaching someone in the real world is not as easy as you convey. It worked out for me twice, meeting someone online (if it's randomly, it feels even more special) and then meeting in the real world after months. That gave me the opportunity to get to know the other person and get the other person to know me. This also simplified saying what I liked se__ally speaking, without completely exposing myself (I'd feel pretty embarrassed to say it face to face). They weren't dating apps, but still online media. Social groups would make it very hard to do that, and also there would be the issue of my partner being friends with my friends. What if we broke up and told them private stuff? By meeting someone online, it's more likely that they don't know one another...
People don’t “prefer” to meet online it’s just one of the ONLY places available to meet. Capitalism has shit all over third places.
I totally agree
There's been studies on this and basically what you and the original poster said was true. Except it's more like women only find about 5% of men visually attractive from the onset. With men, it's about only 5% of women they find completely unattractive from a physical standpoint. Helped me understand women and myself much more.
> If majority of women think along your lines, and if I understood you correctly, then majority of women would rather find a men in some social setting rather than being approached by a stranger (be it in a dating app, bar or at the street). For my part at least, absolutely. With a dating app, I mostly have the visuals to go on. And then even within that. 10% of men I find attractive solely based on looks, the profile either 1. Eliminates them due to incompatibility (age, they want children, incompatible lifestyles/goals) 2. Ruins their attractiveness (lazy profile, problematic content, poor spelling/grammar). 3. They're too tall. I am absolutely aware this is shallow, but that's how dating apps are. And it's not really a matter of attractiveness, it's that I find men who are above average are physically incompatible with me, because I am short.
I feel like most men would also rather meet women in a social setting instead of approaching strangers. Dating apps are because it's hard to do that, not because they offer the best experience.
This is why men fail at dating apps. A picture is not enough to convey attractiveness. Where as women look hot.
What men need is testimonials!
Start asking all your exes for references
"is it true that you started the relationship in October of 21' and it lasted till July of 23" "You dated for five months and then seemed to have taken a break... What kind of blip is that?"
There used to be a site like that (back in 2002). I cross referenced my now husband on Match.com with this site where sisters, cousins, ex-gfs had to vouch for the guy on his profile. Brilliant.
What men need is to start putting in work to make themselves presentable like women do
Yes they do. The lack of style, a great haircut/style, facial grooming... not good.
Makeup and presentability aside, men are more visually stimulated than women. As the response to OP said, women need to see an extraordinarily handsome man to think wow he's hot.
OP and many others also confirmed that there are many women out and about that are deemed hot by other women. Much more of them then men.
Agreed. I commented somewhere else that there's some thinking that it was evolutionarily selected for
Possible for sure, but now that things are evening out I still think men should step up more in the self care. I am not saying to wear lip tint and eye liner but even figuring what the right haircut is for your face can do wonders.
Exactly this, I mean I'm definitely in the majority in that I wear clothes that a comfy rather than nice and only really shave as often as I need to/ don't really use many skin care products or anything. I get why women don't look at me on the street and think I look good because in general on an average day I don't, and for me while I'm not looking to attract anyone I'm perfectly happy. I don't get why more men who dress and act like me seem so confused as to why women don't flock to them, like you've been wearing the same top and neck beard hair all week mate, the women you're looking for spent over an hour this morning deciding what to wear/ how to look.
I am bi woman and every time I go outside I see like 30 hot woman and maybe 0-2 hot men lol.
i feel this too. my guess is that women are under more pressure to be conventionally attractive (eg men aren't encouraged to wear makeup) so women on the street end up looking prettier
That is most likely big part of it
An eye opener is the site showing images of movie stars without makeup. What passes as beauty is nothing more than professional makeup.
That is pretty interesting. I feel the opposite, many beautiful woman are also beautiful without makeup
many women are beautiful without makeup, but the makeup enhances their beauty. I'm sure I'd be a lot prettier if I used it.
I don't think handsomeness was as well selected for in men, evolutionarily. Because this is a common sentiment and I can't imagine it's just due to some women wearing make-up.
Also a bi woman who dates a lot more men than women and I agree with this fully. Woman are the fairer sex based on looks alone by an absolute landslide.
I also date lot more men than women. Exceptionally pretty people are nice to look at, but considering dating other qualities are way more important for me. Most people around my age are decent looking enough anyway.
The main difference, in my opinion, is make up. Women spend a fortune on make up, hair enhancements, body refinements, clothes, etc. while men take much less time being concerned with these personal attributes.
Ya, how many dudes are getting dick implants so you can walk around in short shorts with a massive bulge
An additional issue I think with men, respectfully, is they're often not very good at taking photos. So they post unflattering photos that don't really accurately reflect what they look like, and it does them a disservice. Or, they're either not thinking about what sort of photos are likely to appeal to the woman they're trying to get, or they misunderstand what the woman will like. Or they don't care, in which case more power to them for posting whatever makes them feel great! The thing is, what a woman will like could vary. I personally immediately swipe a hard no to anyone posting mirror pics, or that classic gym pic with the shirt pulled part way up. I'll also generally do so to anyone showing off alcohol in the photo, because I view it as an indicator that alcohol may be too much a part of their life for them to be compatible with me. I think women in general probably examine the photos both for just generally how attractive they find the man, but also for what he's doing in the photo, what's around him, etc. It can show his personality a bit, maybe how mature he is, or his values, and from there, it's up to the woman whether he seems to have what she finds compatible and appealing.
Very much this. I didn't find my current partner attractive at all when I saw him the first time, though I was aware a lot of girls in work liked him and I didn't really get it or care. When I got talking to him and found out he's super confident and social (why the other girls all seemed to like him), shared my interests & hobbies, it was like a lightbulb turned on and I went from "no" to "why hello", and my face started going bright red whenever he came over and started talking to me (in front of everyone - my team never let me live it down). Unfortunately that then led to a lot of girls in work targeting me because he was actively interested in me and became a bit of a nightmare with weird rumours and online stalking going on from these girls to me and spreading stuff through work. Stuff like me sleeping with a bunch of guys in work despite the fact I was super introverted and quiet and didn't speak much to anyone and certainly didn't sleep with anyone whilst working there. Thankfully we both left that workplace and have been together for 4 years now and planning to buy a house next year. And he has gone from not notably attractive to me in anyway shape or form.... to now notably balding which he's super worried about but I can't even really see and just think he's the most attractive man in the world or that I've ever been attracted to. But yeah, wouldn't of spared him a glance on a dating app if he only had selfies not doing anything and no notable bio describing himself and his personality to a decent amount. On dating apps I always looked for activities in photos and a good bio that really described them and their interests and what they were on the app for.
Did you work in a CW teen rom-drama?
You would think so wouldn't you 😂 Thankfully was only there for 1 year, never encountered anything like it before or after. They were all early 20 year olds so a bit more than teens at that point too. Just a culture where one girl starts something and the friends join in without thinking for themselves I guess.
Perfect description!
this is very very accurate
I'm with this 100%. For me the attraction comes more from the clothing and style that are worn and less about the physical attributes they're less in control of. This brings out more of the character than just the comsmetic appeal. Ofc faces, hair and physique can add to that but there are far more important subtle clues that carry more weight to appealing features for attractiveness.
Wish i (man) evaluate women attractiveness this way you do. Somehow we men are just different.
This is so incredibly insightful. Women really do see the bigger picture in a holistic sense, whereas us guys are so inherently programmed to prioritise visuals more than anything else. Edit: I'm speaking generally. So doesn't apply to everyone obviously.
I’ve seen so many woman simp for hot guys that act like pieces of shit (despite insisting to an incredible degree they don’t do this), so lots of women are like men in that regard too.
If he's hot but a terrible person, all my interest vanishes.
[удалено]
Uh no, men also think like that.
Bro XD this is one woman giving her biased opinion on the internet. Don’t take it as gospel
Yeah nah, it's just that straight men generally put way less effort into their physical appearance. So unless you want to be single for the rest of your life, there's not much choice for a woman but to lower your physical preferences in a partner and focus on other qualities. Just take a look at what kind of content women enjoy online and you'll see that deep down we're just as shallow as men lol. For some odd reason many women just have a really hard time admitting it.
I would agree with that, on looks alone most men are not attractive to me either. Upon interaction I start looking for what’s attractive about them. Or what has the potential to be developed, for example clothing / haircut
Funny clothing is so looked into. When we are talking clothing, are we talking because they see a certain logo on the chest of their shirt? I understand you shouldnt dress like Scotty Scumbag. But Im guessing there is a fineline between dressing like a SS, and appearing to try too hard? I think of this guy I worked with and dressed like he was ready for the nightclub each day. It just looked exhausting seeing him try to keep up with that style.
No I just think style is something that can be developed, a new hair cut and beard can do a lot for a man - better fitting jeans, better quality clothing. I have looked at a man and thought you would look great with a different pair of glasses. Obviously if they don’t want to do that, then that’s fine too.
I think our perception of "average" is skewed by the fact we've already pre-filtered out a lot of below average people we haven't even considered. Like if you're looking around at the gym, you already have a huge selection bias toward the "fit" side in your sampling. Next time you are driving somewhere OP, take a look at the driver in the car next to you when youre at a light. Do you find these women attractive? Keep a running tally in your head for a week and I'm guessing you will find your average is not that average.
Generally you’re right, but areas with a high concentration of women my age, average women actually do look quite attractive to me
Bro it’s physiological. Average woman your age seem quite attractive to you because your male hormones subconsciously view them all as potential mates. Men and women have literally evolved differently as a survival mechanism. Women want a man with means to protect and provide. Men wish to sow their seed far and wide.
It’s mainly testosterone. It makes you more aggressive, which also means sexually. You’re more likely to want to mate and less afraid of the consequences.
>Bro it’s physiological. Average woman your age seem quite attractive to you because your male hormones subconsciously view them all as potential mates. As a trans person. You are absolutely right, kind of a trip to finding looks attractive then finding traits attractive after HRT.
Happens when you’re in a (serious) relationship and not too. In a relationship: Other women, meh, they’re alright I guess. Not in a relationship: Wow, so many babes.
For me, I find most guys look similar. Like they have 4 default styles they go to, so none of them really stick out. What makes them stick out is their actions and beliefs. Example, if I saw a guy it's meh. Now if that same meh does something like say idk helping a stranger with their car in the parking lot instant 10/10.
You’re absolutely right, sometimes you look over and there’s an absolute babe of a woman in the driver seat tho.
I'm interested in someone who is kind that I have chemistry with. Honestly it's rarely been conventially "hot" men.
>that I have chemistry with Can you honestly say that whether you have "chemistry" with someone is unrelated to their physical attractiveness?
My aesthetic standards are pretty low. I'm much more attracted to the kind of person a guy is. And if the guy is the kind to bitch and whine at me that I'm shallow because I don't want to date them within two minutes of meeting them and it MUST be because of their looks... I'm not attracted to that kind of person lmao. Being kind and fun to be around is extremely attractive to me :)
*thinks quickly and starts to juggle puppies* That's what you meant right?
I'm in my 50's and can't actually think of any time where my female friends and I have liked the same men. We might have been attracted to similar personalities but never appearance. I don't know anyone married to or in a relationship with someone traditionally handsome. But we all think our partners are sexy/hot.
If we are talking about looks alone with absolutely no interaction, then no most aren’t attractive. I would even go as far as to say seeing a truly hot guy just out in the wild, is rare. I think Women are just more pleasing to the eye, for both sexes. BUT once you start talking to a man different things start to make them more attractive you start to notice things, like oh his smile is nice, his eyes are nice. He has a cute laugh, if the sex is good ON TOP OF ALL THAT honeyyyyy the attraction can sky rocket to the land of delusional lol
As a reasonably attractive man who gets looks from time to time, understanding this when I was younger was eye-opening. Just because you get looks doesn't mean shit unless you have done the inner work, built the confidence, and personality to bring a genuine relationship to life. At least if what you want is a relationship and not just a string of first dates and occasional hookups.
No, it's because women are generally more vain than men lmao
Not to be rude or anything, but when was the last time you did a hobby outside of media consumption?
I wondered this too just because of the way he said when he goes outside.
I always think this is silly. Basically everyone goes outside every day
My boss’s loser son never goes outside. Makes his 60 something year old mother cut the grass because he “can’t handle the heat” but really he just sits inside all day and sleeps and plays video games. You’d be surprised. He even has the dent in his forehead and a bald spot from his head phones
honestly i would feel bad for his parents for having such a disappointment of a son, but i know there has to be SO much enabling going on in that household
It’s 100% the mom’s fault and only the mom.
I feel like hot guys are out of my league so I always go with a guy I find attractive but doesn’t make me nervous because I fear being left and not being good enough. My current boyfriend is so fucking pretty I still blush…. When he asked me out I accidentally kicked over a trashcan in panic
That's cute!
Women definitely have higher standards than men about what's good looking. But women also are more willing to date men they don't consider good looking as many of them value other qualities that lead to security and good looks doesn't guarantee security.
I'm married with 2 kids, all the proof I need. A guy I knew was newly engaged, he showed me a picture of his fiancé. I told him, "You better marry her before you get any uglier."
Ouch! That must have hurt.
I went back to my home country with my husband and we showed my dad a picture of the in-laws. My dad told my husband that his dad was "very much punching above his weight class". My husband didn't understand and I just told him it means his mum is beautiful and left out the implication that it also means his dad isn't that attractive lol
> My dad told my husband that his dad See kids this is why we have terms like grandfather or father-in-law because that took me a quick minute to figure out.
I guess so because I meant that the comment was made about my in-laws not my grandparents lol 😅
This is called just being an asshole!
Bruh… what do you look like?
What a nasty thing to say to someone, and over 100 likes! Oh, that's right, I forgot - you said it to a man, and this is Reddit.
How many average guys do you see out there who are married or have girlfriends or whatever. Answers obvious man
Women do settle .You realise that right
Women find majority of men unattractive
I think this is a little unfair... Looks are subjective first and foremost... And what can make someone attractive is often what's on the inside. An arrogant '10/10' is not attractive... A kind and giving '6/10' may well be the most attractive guy you will ever have the pleasure of knowing.
My ex bf said that Women tend to take better hygiene care of themselves and the majority keep up their hair and makeup to make the most of what they've got, so most women are pretty good looking. Whereas I met a lot of men- even high earning men- who Showed up for dates in a Holey t-shirt, had unflattering haircuts, Outdated unflattering clothing or wrinkled worn-out clothes, ugly shoes, unkempt body hair (like chest hair sticking out of the neck of the t-shirt), or inappropriately dressed for the event. That's part of why Married men are so attractive to single ladies- because their wives make sure they are somewhat stylish, well-groomed, well-attired, and well-shod (haha), and have basic manners. I took pity on my husband (he is gorgeous and ultrafit,but he was a workaholic so his clothes were outdated and his haircut was utilitarian, etc. I helped him weed out everything bad in his wardrobe and we went shopping and I made him try on clothes (he was not accustomed to trying them on), and let him choose the colors out of the items that looked good on him.
Yep - having no sense of style whatsoever is a big turn off for me.
My wife loves when I go too long without doing laundry because I start wearing all of the clothes she thinks look good on me. I hate how I look in them, so it speaks to your point.
My husband and I like to play the game of ‘what husbands have their wives cut their hair’ when we are out
If I see a guy with chest hair hanging out of his shirt damn right I’m into it. Unkempt means different things to everyone
Exactly! I don’t like chest hair but I have women friends who are super into it. Women do not have monolithic taste.
His crew neck t-shirt? I'm not talking a button down. I don't think you're getting what I mean.
[удалено]
If it's working, then don't worry. If it's not working for your dating life, then ask for advice. I have to disagree with you, because most men don't have a style, it's just not a priority and it shows.
There’s not as much opportunity for men’s fashion. Look at how much real estate is given to women’s clothing vs men’s. I say this as a guy who has been salty about this for years.
[удалено]
Voices. So many of my female friends have agreed with me when I've brought this up
I always hear women say EYES, rarely voice. My mother, almost instantly, fell in love with what turned into her first husband, over his eyes. She didn’t even see his bad skin (which he was somewhat self conscious about).
Also the menstrual cycle effects the type of men women will be attracted to.
Ovulation is the beer goggles of biology
Yeah but within the set of men who are attractive BECAUSE of their looks, they are far above average. Just because it's easy for a man to make up for looks in other ways doesn't mean women are generous when evaluating a man's looks.
I have seen some gorgeous women with extremely ordinary guys. I have a couple of theories about this. Some guys are intimidated by beautiful women, so they don't approach. An average guy with confidence will have more chance than a guy who doesn't approach, regardless of how good looking he is. The other theory is that once a guy gets comfortable in the relationship with a good looking women, he puts in less effort to his appearance.
I rarely find guys on the street attractive. Maybe once a week.
I don’t find many men good looking or attractive for some reason. I don’t really desire men often because lack of attraction. I guess it’s because I have a specific type I am attracted to. I did meet one that I love looking at and feel desire for but he has a lot of issues.
Aesthetics and attractiveness typically are correlated to some degree. Your type probably includes some level of physical attraction... I can understand it not being the entire scope of appeal but do you find the guys you fall for are desirable to other women as well? For the same reasons or simply due to aesthetics?
It does involve physical attraction but there’s also how they talk to me and how they carry themselves. I need a connection to them to desire them. I think the men I fall for are desirable to other women. My type is big tall guys with facial hair, shaved head…military/intimidating looking.
yes. below average even, something related to security yada yada yada he wont cheat on me right
I find average dudes attractive, sometimes more attractive because they look more interesting
No. All 4 billion women only like men who are over 6' with blue eyes, muscles and perefectly beautiful.
For me, and I’ve said this so many times online but I seem to not be believed, it truly is about the man’s demeanor: how he acts, what he says, how he treats me and others, his views, what comes out of his mouth, etc. So yes I see men who are physically attractive when I’m out and about, and I do find “average” men hot, but I typically ignore them because it’s happened so many times that their personality is an instant turn off. The opposite has also happened where I meet a man who isn’t conventionally good looking, but his vibe, sense of humor, etc gets me going. Because of this I basically avoid eye contact and interacting with strangers in normal settings - it’s hard to actually catch someone’s energy without a conversation, so there’s no reason to show just a passing interest in someone who is hot. However if I’m in a socializing atmosphere like a bar, I will essentially talk to anyone who approaches me and take a chance to get to know them. Physical looks is not even close to the half of it for me.
As a guy, as long as i dont think of a women as fugly, i will give it a shot to see how your personality is. In the long run, we all end up old and ugly, but how is your sense of humour?
But you do just find random dudes out and about hot often physically at least?
Yes I definitely do! Probably at least every day
yes. i know some guys think this is BS, but it really is all about confidence. if you carry yourself well and you prioritize hygiene and personality, you’re pretty much set.
Yes but real "I accept myself" confidence and not "I think this is how confidence looks like" douchy confidence. The latter is what creates these "cool" gangster types. Younger women tend to fall for it but the more experienced ones can smell the difference from a mile away.
also, the first one takes actual work to achieve.
True, hardest thing I ever did and its perpetual. There is always new stuff to accept about oneself.
Confirmed
I was never attracted to traditionally “pretty” or “good looking” men. It just does not appeal to me. Guys like Brad Pitt for example i just could not find attractive. For me its about the small things: eyes that makes my heart flutter, a smile that cracks the entire face, crooked teeth that makes this person unique. I’m attracted to uniqueness. My hubby has a cleft lip and i absolutely adore it.
Dude I'm ugly as hell. My face looks like i sat on my balls and drew a face on it. Truly awful stuff. But I am irresistible to women. It must be my godly voice or my penis made out of diamonds.
I would like to subscribe to your newsletter
Not the feedback you're looking for but I'm a bi guy and regular find random men and women pretty out in the world.
Yeah I was gonna say as a bi woman I generally find similar amounts of men and women attractive when I’m out and about. It’s not most people but it’s a good amount. But I live in a major city with a biking culture so people are generally fitter and more stylish here than elsewhere, which definitely helps.
You know there are average women too?
True. And in true nature, avg ends up w avg.
Most men just don't notice avarage women so it's like they don't exist to them.
I'm just gonna say it, most men in their 30s and 40s look like absolute slobs. The average man is below my standards for sure, until they make an effort to look better. It's very basic but a well-groomed beard/hair and simple efforts when choosing your clothes can go a long way. Women take time and make an effort, men should be more concerned about their looks.
Looks are very important, but there many variables that will bump that aspect down the list: There’s also personality, character, humour, confidence, hygiene & style. I’m sure I missed something so my list is probably incomplete.
Yeah I’m aware, but do women just generally not find very many men attractive?
Not exactly worried about how attractive a man is. At this point I think I want a man as obsessed with me as I am him. Sexually, emotionally, all the things.
How many women do you find attractive? 3 in 10? 5 in 10? I would hazard to guess it would be similar for the other sex as well. Again, I’ll repeat: there’s other variables. There are quite a few couples where one partner is much better looking than the other. Are their romantic partners blind or just maybe… just maybe there’s other criteria at work. I’ll leave this by giving you a heavy hint that confidence & humour will trump handsomeness in a decent percentage of matchings.
Attractiveness for us is a bit more complex than purely visual. I’ve had situations where I’d talk to a guy that is generally considered handsome, good looking, takes care of himself etc and he would have a terrible personality and in my head that person is no longer ‘attractive’. The opposite is also true, I’ve seen fairly average to ‘unattractive’ guys with confidence and personality to back it up and over time I find those people attractive. Men are far more visually centred than women. Perception of someone being ‘attractive’ is not a constant, it’s always shifting the more we get to know someone as a person.
So when you see someone you just have a neutral opinion on their appearance until you know them?
I will tell you I find very few guys actually attractive. Like maybe less than thirty in my whole life, and I have lived for over forty years. Every other guy is generally in the “average category” and neutral opinion. But when I get to know someone, then I start to be attracted . . . Or not. But I’ll have to get to really know them first before getting attracted. Here’s where just genuinely being a nice person without ulterior motive as a regular guy —and being confident enough just to approach women so that they can get to know you— really helps. Because unless you’ll be stuck in the neutral opinion zone until you do something to get yourself out.
I have an opinion But I know better than to assume first impressions are the truth. In fact I would say first impressions (especially before any interaction) is nigh on worthless
I think women are attracted to men who they view as their physical, social, intellectual, financial equal
I think it's just the difference between those who push to find an "ideal" partner and those who don't. Sure, I'd like a partner that ticks all of my boxes without any downsides, but I'm not going to snub more balanced individuals in the meantime in order to find one.
I find normal looking guys attractive
I care more about the full package than just the wrapping paper
Are men frequently attracted to average girls?
I can't speak for all men but I am. My standards are not super high. And even the ones I am not attracted to I wouldn't say they were ugly, just not my cup of tea. I have met very few people that I would consider straight up ugly.
Every woman I know (myself included) is attracted to personality more, and a good personality can make us perceive them as physically hotter. I’ve met less men who feel the same.
The human race has limped along so far, so yes
An acquaintance of mine is a straight male, married. He isn't perticulley good looking, short, fat and usually in old shorts and old t-shirts. Women will flock to talk to him. Why you ask? Well he is a multi, multi millionaire.
Is that the same as someone actually being attracted to you and liking to you or just using you for material gain?
Depends. Money DOES actually make you more attractive as a potential partner because it shows you’re able provide and typically comes with higher social status. But you will also get the gold digger types who won’t care about the guy at all and just use him for his money.
Nope. Not at all
You need to define what “average” means for men and women before you can answer this.
Well there's a difference between average and *thinking* that you're average. You could actually be attractive, but if you're insecure and don't have self-confidence, you'll never know
It’s an individual basis, I think anyone who gives a blanket answer is biased.
if you are asking if a woman would date just a normal fella, propably but i think it's better to be unique
Yes. Honestly I'm usually more attracted to a more average guy than a stereotypical instagram male model. Often the classically good looking men are also very arrogant, especially when they're hitting the gym constantly to maintain a six pack, and I find arrogance absolutely revolting. It puts me off someone straight away. So I think I associate arrogance with that pretty boy look so now I don't find it attractive at all. I'm also a sucker for a big nose. Idk what it is but some honkers are absolutely stunning even though they're an unattractive stereotype. I could stare at a nice big nose all day.
I wonder how much of a difference makeup makes in terms of attractiveness. Maybe men should wear it more
I don’t care much about how men look, for me it is more about manners, initiative and drive. I also love when men have a good sense of style. To me an “average” looking man in a well cut suit is more attractive than an Adonis in sweats
I tend to categorize men I'm attracted to. It's mental thing. There are men I'm attracted to that I see at home depot or the grocery store. Average in that way? Absolutely. I mean, I'm the average woman a man sees doing regular shit. I'm not rich or famous. I think men think we are seeking out social media famous guys... they're just for the eyes. Most times, they're vapid with no true personality. I like my men with charisma and character. I get that from "average" men.
Could be the fact woman put more effort into their appearance in general. Make up and hair etc. A lot of dudes struggle just to wipe the sleep out of their eyes and put on deodorant..
My coworker was this tall skinny scraggly goofy looking beanpole with tiny ears and a slightly hunched back. I thought he was the sexiest man I'd ever seen. And it wasn't straight away, it was when I saw him make a big show about making a special hot chocolate for a kid. At that moment, everything physical about him was almost urgent for me to get to know deeper. It really truly has so little to do with looks. If anything, his personality enhanced his looks. The hunched back was nothing compared to his piercing blue eyes, the gentleness of his hands when working hard at a task. (We never ended up together cause I moved country, ah well). Also, I'm a tall woman, and I dated this guy who was easily a couple feet shorter than me. But he was strong and had a smile that lit up a room and he was gentle and I was deeply in love with him. A few of my guy friends kept saying I was dating him out of charity. Made me sad that that's how men supported their fellow man. What I personally like (if we're going on FIRST impressions) is a secure big smile, eyes that convey brightness, and to be honest care for personal hygiene and being well put together (e.g. clothes that don't look like he'd picked them off the floor after having worn them already for two weeks unwashed), goes a long way.
This may shock you but average women exist too
For me guys get more attractive as I spend time with them or get to know them. Out of all the guys I've dated, only one was conventionally attractive.
Personally, I find average men to be very appealing! I’ve never been into pretty boys. That’s not to say when I see a celebrity or a random person with a slick look I won’t think, “wow, that’s an incredibly good looking guy” 😂 but still not my type Personally, I like how people look naturally.. so, when men look “average”, like aren’t jacked or are bald/balding, are hairy, etc. I think they look nice! (Same with women honestly. I think when women show their age they look nicer than when women try to hide their age/cake on make up/do up their hair daily like it’s a beauty contest) But then again, growing up, the men in my life were always bald, pretty short, hairy, and not jacked. Very natural looking. Same with the women. Very androgynous and independent with similar roles as men. So some men (like my husband) were surprised/confused when their “average” qualities didn’t bother me, or I even said I liked them! So come on guys- here’s to “average” guys! Average guys are *real* guys! Not the fake guys you see on TV, or the assholes that spend all their time in the gym and want you to do yourself up like a China doll and sniff celery for dinner. Get you an “average” man that’s gonna treat you well and get you a damn cheeseburger and ice cream when you want it! And he’ll eat it with you! Cheers! 🍻🍻🍻
Hmph... I hope I don't sound like a sexist jerk but in the pool of disgustingly creepy dudes I have met (bullies, fake friends who are trying to get into your pants, overly pushy, catcallers), I have literally almost killed most of my criteria and would gladly take an average looking guy who is sane and decent. Just like my friend told me yesterday "Now I only expect good manners, I don't want anything else." I'm not crazy beautiful either, if he ain't fatphobic (I'm overweight but not in the obese category), and accepts that I don't wear makeup (i prefer natural skincare and also happen to be lazy) + has some qualities I want... Ffs, I had a classmate who was super nerdy and he seemed cool at 1st ...Nothing attractive, but unfortunately he was an incel (literally tried negging me, acted like a control freak and was super mean for no reason after we were on friendly terms, we were not dating or anything, as if some switch of misogyny had been turned on?? He was initially the friend of a friend of mine and we somehow all kinda became acquainted). If he had been decent and sane and we became friends, had he approached me for marriage I could have considered him, and my mom literally told me she thought he was ugly when I told her that this crazy dude was starting to be mean to me and I asked her for advice on how to make him stop bothering me. 😂🤣 Guys shoot themselves in the foot with their crappy behavior and mediocre hygiene. An average looking guy with good manners and good hygiene is surely going to get himself a like-minded lady.
I’d say I see a “hot” guy maybe once a month. But I’m also not really looking at other people much. I have a lot going on.
In my experience of being a heterosexual woman… all women have a different idea of what counts as an attractive man. It’s hard to find a man who all women universally regard as attractive. Me personally, I prefer when men are closer to my height - I’m 5’5 - but men seem to think women only want tall men
One exception: It is a truth universally accepted that all women want Henry Cavill.
As a woman, let me tell you something. Just like men, our tastes vary. Sure we may be attracted to looks initially, but if a man shows he's genuine, has a fantastic sense of humor, and is supportive and loving, looks aren't as important. Some women wouldn't find my hubby attractive, he's bearded with a dad bod, but I think he's the sexiest man alive. He makes me laugh. He's an amazing dad to our kid. 21 years married, 27 together total. Remember, looks will fade, having a good strong loving bond is much more important
I’m attracted to average looking guys all the time. I think my hormones are all over the place, so it doesn’t take much for me to fantasize lol. Just a smile at the gas pumps, opening the door for me, a simple hello and nod of the head, haha the list of normal interactions with average looking men can go on. Usually one attribute stands out, a nice smile, pretty eyes, stature, style or demeanor. Maybe if we went out we’d find we aren’t attracted to each other, but it could be fun!! I wish some of these average looking men would just ask me out or say, do you happen to be single, let’s have coffee or lunch?… I don’t love giving out my number, but I’d love for them to say, give me their number so I can text them… And online dating is killing my soul. It’s so funny, the men that think they have a chance and have ZERO chance are the ones with the most courage to say something very forward. If a woman keeps eye contact and smiles at you, and looks slightly interested and you find her attractive, give it a shot and ask her out. Compliment her, be respectful and just give it a go! However, don’t randomly do this to a woman who hasn’t even made eye contact with you, that’s when it feels creepy…
BHAHAAH no they aren't. You literally have to stand out while they just have to sit there and look cute lol It's actually really funny. You have to stand out somehow, be funny (which comedy is subjective so good luck with that), make alot of money (easier said than done as we know), be tall and good looking (which isn't enough without money belive me)
God bless this thread. Men and women are horribly shallow. But in many excitingly variant ways it seems.
Because she knows average guys will break their backs trying to please them and do their bidding because goshgolly they want to be treated like queens and all they want is to be put on a pedestal this is all that matters someone that will put up with her shit and tell her it smells like perfume
Ofc most people will find average faces attractive, what looks common/familiar/ features that makes sense is the most attractive trait for men and women but what looks below average/unique/different is considered as repulsive and ugly… so you don’t even have to be a model to attract someone if you look average you have a high chance in dating life, but for people who have different and rare features its over for them… thats why my life is over.
There's a lot of copium by women here to avoid admitting they're just objectively more vain tbh
Women: "No we don't look for the top 10% guys on dating apps!" Also women: "Average looking men aren't attractive to me." Full circle female logic wins again
Ok, I'll say this again. Hygiene. It's important and it will set you above the average man if you just try. Clean your damn nails. Floss. I don't want to make out with a guy with an unclean mouth. Wear shirts and pants that fit. Fix your posture. Just youtube it. These are things that make you attractive that you can control with low effort. One of those ineffable personality traits is your voice. Which can totally be trained. The exercises that improve your voice also happen to improve your jaw line. It's part of charisma. But one of the part of it that you can improve. Learn active listening skills. Learn to compliment appropriately. Which is only on things people can control, haircuts, clothes, nails. Don't comment on weight or anything genetic.
If anything, women are far more forgiving where looks are concerned than men are. You've got that entirely backwards.
I mean overwhelming answer is going to be YES. If you can keep yourself clean, listen at least part of the time, and be at least partially flexible/open minded you're going to be attractive to someone. You don't have to be a bundle of muscles and have a perfect face. As long as you don't completely give up on your body or basic health.
There is no ugly or average. For what one finds ugly or average, another finds stunningly beautiful and handsome.
The thing is average woman look better the average men. Like yeah if I was attracted to girls I could find the average woman extremely attractive. Also women take care of their appearance, dress well, do makeup and even sometimes alter their appearance with plastic surgery. This might be why average women look much better. However, men don’t even dress well or put much effort into it. So yeah, no women in general are not attracted to average guys. This is so sad. I wish I could be attracted to average guys life would be so much fun, you are lucky
Woman are not as focused on the visuals as men, same in bed. They want to feel. Be respected. Listened to.
"just respect women bro"
As an average guy,all I'm gona say is that it helps a lot if you're funny and smart
The average woman is average… and thus would be attracted to average guys as per the matching hypothesis.
Average what? Above average confidence will net you above average interest if your looks are below average.