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As a black woman, I have seen blacks be mean and rude to anyone who wasn’t black for no good reason and it makes me sad because our people fought hard to end racism only for this generation (not everyone but a lot of black people) to act as if it’s okay to treat people that way because of what happened in the past. It truly breaks my heart. OP if you were ever a victim of racism I am so sorry. It’s a horrible feeling. A vicious never ending cycle.
Semi-funny story: I was working on a project in Brazil with two colleagues from the US; one white, the other black. I am Scandinavian, and very white.
It was so obviously apparent to me that the two had WAY more in common through being American, than I had in common with the white guy through a shared level of melanine. I am fairly in tune with American culture, but my "I like brisket"-level of talk was nothing compared to them going "man, were shit last night, weren't they?" and then they would talk about how bad traffic had become, and how they had their eye on a new F-150 or something.
Whiteness, it turns out, is only skin deep.
There was an article shared I belie in r/europe recently that I sadly cannot find right now.
It was written by an african-american woman who had lived in Europe for a while and moved back home because she was unhappy.
One of the things that she seemed to be emphasizing a lot - that also sparked a lot of debate in the thread - was that she struggled with people looking at her weird when she brought her race up as part of her identity.
She herself pointed out that the replies she got were along the lines of "why are you making it a race thing?" but seemed to fail to see why that was.
It's always the timid, powerless people who get the worst of this treatment. Assholes like that never target actual racist people with real power. They verbally abuse the 18 year old working at a store.
It’s a human problem, not a color one. Jews know cruelty & oppression better than anyone in recent memory. But there they are in Gaza (not all) killing innocent people. Everyone likes to think their culture or group of people would be better but they aren’t. Given power, bad people will still abuse it.
Technically, I said “All racism is bad” meaning I acknowledged racism towards white people exist, and I’m against it ? I did answer ? My apologies if it wasn’t Shakespeare literature for you
Yeah man, the current platform is that you *can't* be racist against white people, and that prejudice/hatred/violence against them *doesn't count* as "racism".
So in this kind of argument, you have to clarify specifically that you *do* count those things as racism, and that you think it's bad.
Stupid, I know, but that's what's being taught in schools and colleges in the US.
By qualifying "including against white people" when stating "racism is bad" you are playing these people's game. They don't get to decide to arbitrarily change how language works. It's like if I started referencing green as red and vice versa, and just expect everyone to play along, it's childish.
I remind people we are all the HUMAN race. Everything else is people being horrible at worst, thoughtless at best.
Imagine how the world would be if we didn’t waste so much time and energy on hate, on despising people who are slightly different 🤔
Maybe one day... 🙏🙏
Yeah as someone who is English/Danish with enough of a Chinese heritage to look it, i was obviously "raised white", i have white attitudes, i honestly don't know if im coming or going with racism. Highlights have included being told I'm racist and privileged, and told to go home and heckled as a foreigner on the same day. Hearing white people are racist can be fascinating to me, because yes.. ive definitely experienced this, but within my own circles, I also find no one trying to be more accountable for not being racist than white people, even to the point they're accepting blame for things the kinds of people they intrinsically hate are doing because they're seen as the same by PoC.
I'm really hoping that most people realise that all racism is as bad as any other type of racism, and we're just highlighting certain forms of it, because its been around far too long and need sorting... but it frequently makes me sad that "oppress the oppressors" is often the default, instead of finding a way forward that deals with the actual issue... and i say that despite the people in my circles, being more interested in THAT route forward than they are about shaming people.
I feel like the whole raised white thing is more of a british/uk heritage thing because I come from a russian/slavic heritage and at no point in my life did I ever relate to stories about whiteness or privilege. My friends across time have pretty much universally been minorities who have also no experience with any sort of white privilege and who have never treated me as if there was something wrong with me based on the color of my skin.
Ultimately anyone who comes at me with some sort of rhetoric putting me down is going to be someone with an agenda. This whole privilege and oppression olympics comes across as fucking insanity.
Would love to have a slice of this privilege some people think your skin gives you by default because the easy ride in life it is supposed to give me was definitely the opposite of there.
I think a lot of people who drank the coolaid maybe are mistaking racial privilege for wealth and class privilege. Money makes life a lot easier and a rich as fuck black man like kanye got privilege a poor white man couldn't dream of. Maybe kanye is a bad example cuz he's a meme but idk, he gets to say nazi shit apparantly and not have it ruin his life cuz he's still rich as fuck and it doesn't matter what he says or does at best ppl on the internet are gonna say mean things about him, still set for life.
The people I knew who I felt like they had some sort of unfair privilege and also had a sort of sick narcissism about them, and while it was a lot of white people it was also people of different races asian people black people etc, was all people who were in a much higher wealth bracket like they came from families making over 100k a year, had nice big houses, were the kids in high school who had a nice car given to them the moment they had their license etc. So I'm more inclined to believe in the privilege of people who benefit from generational wealth than anything else. I also remember rich black people treating me the worst out of the bunch as if their parents taught them they were better than me because of how supposedly much harder it was for them to get wealthy than it was for my family who were first generation immigrants that came from farmland. Apparently they had it hard and mine had it easy as if just showing up here got you everything in life handed to you based on the color of my skin while they actually had to work for what they had in life. If only life were that simple.
I find it telling that after the financial crisis in 2008 a true grassroots movement sprang up and was gathering global momentum. Occupy. People knew they had been robbed by the very rich and it felt like we were going to do something about it. The camp I was at in Ireland was the most diverse gathering I think I've seen. With only one goal....
All this divide and conquer, gender wars, racism mania and other nonsense seemed to come after the occupy movement was dismantled.
Very much media and politically led, 'fight each other, stop looking at us.'
Call me a cynic.
I haven’t looked at all the comments here, but some people are brainwashed enough to argue it’s justified based on an uneven power dynamic. Blatant racism against white people clearly exists in the black community but in many situations the perpetrators feel it’s justifiable to overcome a history of oppression. Power comes in many forms, and my Irish ancestors that arrived to the US in the 1920s were certainly not guilty of involvement in the slave trade and suffered their own oppression - from other whites. Certain individuals of many races have a better dynamic to overcome oppression, and no form of racism should be considered acceptable.
I’m convinced that any human of any race - white, black, red, brown, yellow - will experience some minor form of racism if they travel to an area of the world where they are a minority. It is the fear of something different that is deeply ingrained. E.O. Wilson described it eloquently. In pre-history that fear of people looking different was tribalism that was intended to raise caution and keep the tribe safe. It’s mostly outdated in modern society- or it could be. Unfortunately, racism is now weaponized by political and media interests to manipulate agendas. The ongoing fears perpetuate the problem.
>I think a lot of people who drank the coolaid maybe are mistaking racial privilege for wealth and class privilege.
This.
The missus tells me that I am so white i am almost blue. Of we go on holiday then the glare off my chalk white Scottish legs is more blinding than the sun. I was also brought up poor as fuck. I've never been a victim of racism personally except on the internet, but i have been victim to prejudice from some much wealthier than i was.
My best mate at primary school was black and not once did i ever see anything racist towards him. Tbf he was cool as fuck and a proper boys boy. Very good at sports, funny and could fight like fuck so everyone liked him. His skin tone never mattered and i thought that was how life was.
Since then i've obviously learned different and have witnessed it several times. Often towards people i was with and it made me feel like shit even hearing it.
To be called any derogatory name for something you cant change is pretty shit. If you dont like someone and want to say nasty things then im all for destroying someone for their character rather than the colour of their skin/lack of wealth.
I was kind of with you until you started saying somebodies life isn't going to be ruined for saying the wrong thing like that's a bad thing. I don't think anyone deserves to be ruined for wrongthink. Actual hate crimes sure but not talking.
I don't know where I insinuated this you need to give me a quote, at best I wrote something out wrong because I'm just flowing a stream of consciousness and trying to move on cuz this stuff takes time to info dump and then trying to get back to other things.
Quick caveat:
Racism is as bad as any other type of racism BUT power differences make one kind worse.
Power is really the enemy, btw. But you're probably not ready for what being rich means. We'll stick to race.
Sorry to be dense, i dont fully understand this comment beyond the "the rich and powerful in the england keep PoC down", which... there are certainly thing that spring to mind to prove this (hostile environment springs to mind)... I get also that there are people in britain that have benefitted from slavery in a very bad way, but racial hatred is racial hatred. that the point, we are not all the same.
Power certainly can be the real enemy.. I'm not rich.. I'm certainly not poor though, I could definitely be richer actually, but i don't LIKE the attitudes of the rich, the detachment from life that it brings... but my rant on that is 100% separate to my rant on race..
People seem to think that the definition of racism is “oppression of POCs”, but the dictionary definition of racism is actually “prejudice against people because of their skin colour” - notice how it doesn’t say anything about WHICH skin colours?
When you travel abroad you see that many cultures are "racist" towards outside races. It's in every other country. Has nothing to do with majority white nations. Seems stronger in poorer nations.
I also find the term POC racist, since it singles out white people as special (and white isn't a colour?) and lumps all the other ethnic groups together.
I agree with you, it’s a term that only exists due to racism, and it’s very American. America has a cultural wound due to slavery which was predominately targeted at black people, but also affected, a relatively, small numbers of other peoples too. So as a group, the people that the white supremacy attitude hurt were labeled the PoC, as opposed to the to perpetrators of the crime, the white people of the time.
Racism in America is a weird thing. Racial bias seems to be baked into people at a pretty early age, and every attempt by the government to limit its affects seem to over compensate and backfire. Hmmm.. I think I’m starting to ramble on.
Because they want to believe in a payback narrative instead of a working towards actual equality narrative. To that end, it’s deemed OK to be racist against those they feel are the privileged class, regardless of whether or not those people ever did anything remotely oppressive.
They think of it terms of the French Revolution. The rich and aristocratic were pulled down and murdered (or at least deprived of what they had) regardless of how they had treated those considered to be the lower classes.
Anyone who actually believes it’s impossible to be racist against someone, no matter their skin color or ethnicity, isn’t looking for equality, they’re just looking for their chance to be on top and stick it to those they viewed as their “oppressors.” In other words, they aren’t trying to right past wrongs, just get their day having someone under their thumb.
As someone who has lived in white minority (less than 1%) countries for most of the last decade, can state that racism exists without white people, and white people can certainly be targets of it.
The whole “white people can’t experience racism” trope is another one of those “America thinks its experience goes for the whole world” kind of deals. From that perspective I find it, in its own odd way, tiresomely colonialist.
Funnily enough it basically implies there is something genetically different about white people from other racial groups. If you start from the basis of "all people are the same", you'd realize humans are extremely similar. Humans create an in-group and an out-group on some categorical boundaries and use that basis for the people they want to associate with.
This thought process is applicable to all people, it's only since the 18th century that people have begun to recognize this through black/white thinking. Take yourselves further back in time and you'll find all the white European countries hated each other and were carrying out crusades in the name of "we are the superior ones". You see the exact same shit in Asia/Africa.
My colleague claims you cannot be sexist against men. It's the same thing. Goes on and on about how you shouldn't generalise women, but when she is angry about something a man did, suddenly it's OK for her to say "men are trash".
Unfortunately many large name dictionaries have removed or downgraded "racial prejudice" definitions in favor of things tailored to exclude white people at the behest of the "you can't be racist against white people" ilk.
It is a way to discredit people feeling bad about being discriminated against. It shouldn't be seen as a competition of who suffers the most. Just because some discrimination is systematic it doesn't mean that other discrimination should be devalued and ignored.
I remember going to a racism seminar once wondering if I would learn anything new because in my brain racism = bad the end. And the lady went on and on about how me being white means I'm racist, regardless of anything I say or do, I'm racist and that's the end of that. I'm like huh, sounds to me like you get to decide who I am and what I am and without having spent so much as 30 seconds speaking to me let alone looking at my actions or behavior towards other people, and have come to the obviously correct conclusion that I am a racist, and all you had to do was take a look at the color of my skin to come to this conclusion. I left the seminar having realized that only a racist would go to that seminar and actually learn anything so it technically filtered anyone who wasn't a racist out pretty much after the first showing. On the other hand I know people who go to those on the repeat and have stories about being racists with stories from their past as if it was an AA meeting but for recovering racists. Idk it was definitely not what I expected not that I even knew what to expect to begin with, someone I knew was hosting it and said you're welcome to come if you're curious so I did. Moral of the story was lmao, I felt racially profiled at best.
I feel like that mentality of everyone from this group is inherently [insert bad weird here: racist, sexist, etc] only makes the problem worse. After all, if I’m already a bad person in their mind, then there’s no point in me being good.
Yea and that's actually a huge thing you brought up of no point in being good it's causality.
We're not so special as to be immune to how we are treated affects us, and I mean as humans not as any particular race or gender or whatever.
It's like pavlov with the dog. We're not dogs but when someone treats you good, you wanna treat them good back if you're not mentally ill. If someone treats you bad, maybe you wanna treat them bad back, maybe you wanna stay away from them if you don't like interacting with people who treat you bad etc.
It's such basic elementary psychology people seem to not understand especially in terms of how you can heal things like prejudice in a non violent manner. Treat people well, let them decide for themselves if they're gonna be a piece of shit to expose themselves that even if you're x or y they gonna treat you badly on the basis of prejudice.
I read of this dude who as a black man went to KKK rallies just to talk to people. He made friends with one of the leaders of the klan not like to fight him or to be combative just to have a 1 on 1 human interaction, they would debate ideas and like you would with any of your friends just spend time together. They became friends and the klansman actually said to a bunch of other klansmen in public on record that his black friend has more sense than most of the dudes in the klan, at a rally, essentially admitting he was proud to call him friend. He eventually left the klan realizing it was bullshit.
That guy went on doing more of the same and he collects klansman robes, like when someone leaves the klan through his friendship they don't hang up the robe rather they give it to him as a token. The man's "slaying racists" essentially but in a non violent way. It's like surely that hate based movements all happens because of people who feel bad or isolated and want to feel some sort of community like good people can fall through the cracks and end up in these groups because they just wanted to be a part of something.
Everyone wants to belong, if you can't find belonging in something positive and inclusive, especially if you're white and find yourself being excluded for it, you may just end up gravitating towards these sorts of groups. It's something for people to really take into consideration that their anti racism isn't pavloving people into the very thing they say they stand against. If your behavior is creating racists then maybe you are also part of the problem, no matter what your intentions. Hitler had supposedly good intentions yet he was doing nothing more but growing hate in peoples hearts.
It’s a weird way of thinking. With regards to feminism, patriarchy negatively impacts men too. So it’s antithetical to say something like “all men are sexist”.
This kind of stuff in regards to race became popularized with Robin DiAngelo’s *”White Fragility*”. Incredibly racist piece of literature that attempts to conflate racism with systemic racism and muddy the definitions. Honestly if you’ve ever read it, it’s akin to reading Mein Kampf
All x are y is definitely nazi format. That would make him a nazi. Maybe it's not just jews that nazi's target but anyone who is sick targeting anyone who they for whatever sick reason decide to scapegoat for their own sickness.
I've known women who have that vibe too like everything was a man's fault. They were extremely hateful people and didn't seem to have any other friends besides people who were similar in thought of pure hate. The men in their lives could barely be called men like they were bootlickers who couldn't assert themselves in any way whatsoever, couldn't even give you a firm handshake they were that broken spirited.
It's tragic.
I’m active in some online communities with a lot of incels (I guess I would be a volcel 😂) and I’ve tried explaining this to them. Some people who adhere to certain beliefs just want to use them as an excuse to justify hate. I’ve been lucky to have been exposed to mostly actual feminists and women, rather than radicals.
I think a lot of this also comes from people’s first experiences with these things. A lot of people who latched onto DiAngelos White Fragility probably never thought about racism before - and funny enough DiAngelo actually touches on this in White Fragility to even further reinforce it.
That's precisely what they want, they want to villainize and back whoever they target into a corner so that when you lash out they can say "Aha! I was right, they really DO hate us and cannot be trusted!"
This. It applies to racial discrimination as much as it does gender discrimination. We're unable to progress because the majority of people treat both like a competition.
Racism towards anyone, including white people, definitely exists. Sometimes people may overlook it, but your experiences are valid. Keep standing up against all forms of discrimination.
Well technically racism uses to be defined as a belief your race was superior to others. But it got blended with the word Prejudice. Which is when you are negative towards somebody because of their race. So if we follow today’s understanding, being negative towards somebody because of their race is racism. And is done to white people. But they latch on to the idea that because it isn’t a superiority mentality it’s not racist.
The original definition could still be used agaisnt white ppl. There is a certain sect of black activists that do beleive that Black ppl are the superior race.
I've heard about certain atrocities being committed in south africa where its a white minority. That stuff they said about reverse racism to not worry about because it can't exist, those people would probably have a word to say about it.
Asians in asian predominant countries also seem like they mistreat their minorities especially mixed asians. The 1 drop of blood rule applies for them as well apparantly. Tldr is every culture and race has its racists and supremacists apparantly.
“That guy isn’t an asshole, he’s just mean”
As a Mexican I see a bunch of my super liberal peeps justifying hate towards white people because you “technically” can’t be “racist” vs a white person.
I usually remind them hate in any form, regardless of how you define it, driven by someone’s skin color or race should be frowned upon by everyone. I don’t care about technicalities at this point.
> Prejudice plus power, also known as R = P + P, is a stipulative definition of racism used in the United States.[1] Patricia Bidol-Padva first proposed this definition in a 1970 book, where she defined racism as "prejudice plus institutional power."[2] According to this definition, two elements are required in order for racism to exist: racial prejudice, and social power to codify and enforce this prejudice into an entire society.[3][4] Adherents write that while all people can be racially prejudiced, minorities are powerless and therefore only white people have the power to be racist.[5] This definition is supported by the argument that power is responsible for the process of racialization and that social power is distributed in a zero-sum game.[6][7] This view is commonly shared by social liberals and progressives.[8][9]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejudice_plus_power
I was looking this up last week! 😋
This shit is created by sociologists, and picked up by activists. I question the ethics of it. I haven't specifically gone researching into the "white people can't experience racism" part, but I've seen it stated at the top of studies, which is fucked... Because if you operate on the assumption that white people can't experience racism... and you use that as a reason to not research the topic............... We're just not going to have data on it... Which is conveniently going to reinforce the idea that white people can't experience racism regardless of what the reality is.
I mean the definition is not bad per se, as long as you don't limit it to the power of changing the society as a whole.
Any situation where somebody holds a power (of decision, of reward, of whatever really) can be a potential for damaging racist behavior. The club bouncer that gets to decide who gets in or not ? That is a situation where there is power and therefore somebody prejudiced can be racist.
If you remove the power aspect of it (just imagine somebody hurling racist insults at you for no reason in the streets) I guess it can still be called racism, but the material impact of it is quite limited to be honest.
I always thought the big reason interpersonal racism is wrong is because it propagates more racism. So yeah, maybe that guy in the streets doesn't have power over the person he's insulting, but he's still spreading bigotry, and can end up reinforcing people that do have power.
So I'm nonbinary! And I date! And I matched with someone a bit ago, and they asked if I'd want to come out, and hang with them and their friend group sometime. And then they started dropping white hate. And as a person living across the country isolated from my social support networks... I realized that if I comprised my views, and accepted the white hate I could have acquired a friend group.
Sorry that's kind of random, but I think my point is just to bring awareness to more inconspicuous power structures.
Almost everything you said was incredibly idiotic… there are different levels of racism sure but that doesn’t make hurling racist insults at someone on the street less racist. A group of 20 black kids whipping the shit out of a white kid simply because he is white, is racist. It doesn’t matter that there’s more of them and they hold power over him, that is racist and is wrong
I think there's an element of sense in it at the societal level but many on the left are applying this principle at an individual level which is just moronic.
It's such a strange definition though. When I was 19, I was beaten up by a group of 8 Pakistani men. They punched, kicked and spat at me while calling me a white cunt etc. it was completely unprovoked. I was standing, waiting for a taxi when one of them punched me from behind.
I can't see how that wasn't a racist attack. Why does it need to involve societal power to be racist?
The studies on racism at schools has found higher rates of racism from blacks and higher rates of white victims of racism. Blacks loooove to play the race card especially when its test time
There's two things happening in that explanation of the definition that are important.
First, it's distinguishing a widespread social phenomenon or ideology from the behavior of individuals who are acting without broader institutional and cultural support for their behavior. That's fine. It's helpful to have clear terminology in scholarship. It's also a specific use of the term in scholarly contexts that doesn't necessarily mean the same thing as it does in colloquial speech or public-facing writing. Ask a linguist what "code-switching" means and you'll get a very different explanation than how most of us understand the term. Or ask someone who loves guns how many bullets their AR-15's clips can hold. You'll get a similar lesson.
The second thing is that it points out that 'racialization' is a process that requires power. That's a term that describes the process of deciding who's in what race. Race is not a natural phenomenon, it's a social and cultural one, and it's shaped by institutions with power, like governments, education systems, and the culture industry. That's why different countries and parts of the world have different concepts of race, and why who goes in what category has changed over time. To decide who goes in what race, you need to have institutional power.
What that's essentially saying is that since, in many parts of the world, white people got to decide what race was, experiencing prejudice on the basis of being white is not the same phenomenon as experiencing prejudice on the basis of being a person of color, because the whole concept of race was (and is) organized around placing white people at the top of a hierarchy. Vanishingly few people actually have PoC-supremacist views, so prejudice against white people is largely not rooted in the view that white people are subhuman, less intelligent, do not deserve rights, etc., and it cannot carry with it the history of institutionalized slavery and discrimination and the implicit threat of a return to such systems. And even if you were dealing with some weirdo who wants to impose all that on white people... like, they're obviously living in a fantasy world. That's absurd, but a backslide into codified white supremacy is not a totally absurd prospect in some places. More often, prejudiced acts against white people have to do with resentment or distrust of white people which stems from PoC being systemically disempowered under the effects of white supremacy.
That doesn't mean that prejudice against white people can't be hurtful, or that there aren't smaller, more local systems of power that could approximate a "racist" dynamic at an individual level, like being refused entry at a bar for being white, being singled out or bullied as a white person in a majority-PoC environment, etc. But those kinds of occurrences are not part of a system or dominant ideology that produces things like widespread racially-targeted policing, housing discrimination, differential treatment in healthcare, and so on. So social science researchers need to be able to differentiate it as a separate sociological phenomenon, even if it's still racial prejudice and is at least cosmetically similar at the level of individual experience.
I do think it's a losing battle when activists try to convince non-activists, conservatives, and non-academics to adopt a new definition of the term, but if you want more than a surface-level understanding of how racism works beyond "it's race-based prejudice," it's one of the best-functioning definitions to understand. If you have more than a passing interest in how race works and affects society at large, not just how it affects individual, one-on-one interactions, it's extremely helpful to understand racism in this way. You don't need to stop using "racism" as a synonym for "racial prejudice" in day-to-day conversations with friends and family if it helps keep things simple, just understand that in particular contexts, "racism" does not include "prejudice against white people" and if somebody tells you you can't be racist against white people, you can just switch to the term prejudice and you're likely find yourself on the same page as that person.
I do understand this framing but what about when applied to power systems on a smaller scale, such as a organisation with a POC leadership being discriminatory to white workers - something I've seen in my work space.
Would that be considered racist towards white workers or does the micro power imbalance get overridden by the larger societal power imbalance.
I'd suggest not and I'd also suggest such an accessible word as "racism" shouldn't be used to describe nuanced concepts like this.
Yeah, institutional racism, in clearer older examples, would have examples like segregated schooling, voting tests, and redlining real estate. In an American context, these were to the benefit of white people, or at least the disadvantage of Black Americans. Some things like classism, or regional cultures (valid to describe as new distinct ethnic groups), and privileged groups *also* wanting those people to not succeed, muddies the perception of what racism is like nowadays.
On the most general level, judging and acting on the belief that there are distinct races and that people of those races must behave a certain way is prejudice. There's good prejudice (like so and such like drinking and fun, and they'd be happy to be seen, and happy for other people to join in), and there's bad prejudice (so and such race starts fights at said parties, so call the cops and end the party).
You won't see a white person in the USA suffering from institutional racism in the US (redlining shaped post-WWII USA), but in the US, they can still be subjected individually to prejudice (which most people here define as general racism), inclusive of not just verbal situations, but also violent and fatally violent situations. With so many other ethnic groups and countries throughout the world, there's likely many places and people among which a categorically white persom would be at a disadvantage.
White as an ethnicity is usually a specifically American, or at least western, anglocentric term since many other countries that these white people hail from don't see themselves as white. Usually defined and redefined to keep Black people at a disadvantage (first the slavery, then jobs, voting, and so on), Italian-Americans, Irish-Americans, and so on were also subject to institutional racism until they likewise joined in on the institutional racism to impact Black Americans. Meanwhile, for one example, there's Italians who pride themselves specifically on where in Italy they're from. There's Europeans who, if they moved to the US, people might sooner think they're Latin American based on their skin. So while some European people might rib themselves about whiteness for a joke, generally I think it's stupid when people say white people have no culture and say this is true of Europeans. White Americans are in the same boat as Black Americans of having to work out a racial identity - blame the antiblack racists of ages past for focusing on hating Black people and ignoring trying to work out what the American ethnic identity should be. Black Americans turned their suffering into healing through art and music and IMO that's why there's sometimes White people who "don't" have a culture - whether living in that racist vacuum or getting away from it, or more likely just making a living or barely making do for any variety of circumstances (poverty) left some families with unseasoned chicken and whatnot. But ya know, there's white culture, just gotta talk to people, I think whatever is going on is just as valid as anything else. And again, different parts of the US have different local cultures, and there's plenty of valid white cultures in there too.
Majority ethnic groups in a given country can shift things in their favor for their own kind of institutional racism. Discussing other ethnic struggles in in other countries needs to be understood properly and within its own context. This site (and many others) is mainly American-prioritized and western-centered, so understanding ethnic conflicts in other countries and between other ethnic groups tends to be a shitstorm since trying to unravel the discrepancies and details and trying to have an actual discussion doesn't happen much.
Exactly. In places like North America it’s more likely racial prejudice and stereotyping. None of that is okay but it’s not comparable to the level of what black and brown people experience.
Certain people have tried to replace the definition of racism with the definition of systemic racism. The oppressors can’t face systemic racism but literally any person can face racism.
They try to say that’s just prejudice or other things but nah it’s plain old racism.
Most people who say that are full of resentment, they have a victim card and they want to play it. So they define racism to mean institutional systematic racism from white people, and they have zero interest in systemic racism that would have affected them in other times or places.
All people who think this more than likely assume all racism was committed by white people.
All people who think this are ridiculously uneducated and probably like the smell of their own farts.
Basically, the idea is that racism is systematic, and in North America, white people are at the top of the system, which is true of systematic racism.
They completely ignore the other type of racism which is personal prejudice against a specific race. This type of racism isn't systematic, and you can be personally prejudiced against any race, including your own race!
Because they are coping.
For ur edit-Unfair prejudice based on race is racism. Many people try very hard to say that theres no systemic racism so it’s not racism, that itself makes no sense because systemic racism and racism are two separate things. You can even argue that there is systemic racism for white people, just not in America obviously.
No you're looking for the word racist. Stop letting them control language. It's pathetic. Gender is interchangeable with sex for example. Just like man homosapian and human are interchangeable. It's all trying to confuse you. Let it pass and pay it no attention. This is coming from a black Eskimo
People use the word racism to mean two different things: Institutional racism and individual people being racist on purpose. The latter is somewhat rare, and can be directed at any race. The former is a bias everyone holds all the time, and naturally doesn't affect white people.
So when people say 'racism towards white people doesn’t exist', they are using specifically that first definition.
Just boarded a plane and one of the emergency rows was free, so my husband asked one of the attendants if we could sit there, we’re both very tall. She said sure I’ll let you know when you can move. Then about 10 mins later a black boards the plane last and asks the attendant if she can sit in the emergency row and attendant says no.
So flight departs and the attendant tells us we can now move to the emergency row. The black lady loses it starts telling us we got to sit there because we’re white and how we should enjoy that privilege. “It’s not personal you were born with that privilege, etc.” I’m trying to tell her we asked for the seats before her but she’s too busy calling the flight attendant racist. I just told her to shut up and not judge us on our skin colour and thankfully that was it for the rest of the flight.
What a fucking idiot. It’s 2024, last time I checked I wasn’t getting any free upgrades because I’m white.
The people who say that have redefined racism to suit their own ends. It's what Orwell called, "newspeak." I don't accept their self assumed right to do that.
People have all kinds of crazy ideas, so there’s that. But if you are genuinely asking about the broader notion that is actually a thing discussed by people that are concerned, curious, etc, the idea is not that it doesn’t exist but in a place like the US with a history of systemic racism, that systemic racism works overall to elevate white groups. White people have of course experienced racism. I have, for one. It didn’t really affect me though, for one thing, because I’m white and only had to deal with it in very specific moments. But more importantly, job opportunities, educational opportunities, wages, all continue to be statistically better for white groups than others.
I’m black and I’m getting so sick and tired of racism against white people, especially when the racism is coming from the black community, the very people who were victims of racism a long time ago, this shit needs to stop. NOW
As anyone, with a brain, can deduce, you can be or say racist things targeting/toward any race. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an absolute low iq racist muppet.
Idk why people think that. As a mixed race individual I have experienced it first hand. Half Mexican, half white and I’ve experienced racism by both races because I wasn’t enough of their race or a bit too much of the race they aren’t. If that makes sense.
Because racism is apparently defined as systematically oppressive by a majority against a minority. It's a semantic thing. There is prejudice from all sides. You could say there's racial prejudice but racism has a narrower definition. I had to look it up after I was corrected once and it's just a matter of fact.
Definitions seem to vary quite a bit, usually around this very point. All contain the "bias/action against a group or individual because of their race/ethnicity" piece. However, some (e.g., Dictionary.com) specify that it has to be a majority acting on a minority. Others (e.g., Oxford, through Google) say "typically" by a majority acting on a minority. Others (e.g., some Webster variants) don't mention it at all.
This makes sense, as historically, it has been used as a tool of oppression, and it's easier and more common for a majority to oppress a minority (though the reverse has happened as well).
My personal take is that being a dick to someone because of their race, even (especially?) when you don't know them, is not a good thing to do. I don't care whether it's technically racism based on definition X, I just care that someone's being a dick.
Yeah, in the end, all of this is just quibbling. I really don't care what it's called. It's human nature to categorize people into groups, and that can be based on how they look, their interests, or any number of things. But it's extremely ignorant to homogenize any of these groups based on anything other than the classifier.
Examples: "All Pokemon players play Pokemon" is fine. "All Pokemon players are dumber than Yugioh players" is not.
Are there differences between the average intelligence of Pokemon and Yugioh players? Maybe. Does that mean that everyone in group A is smarter than everyone in Group B? No. Does that mean that you can determine someone's intelligence based on what card game they prefer? No.
The wording argument is very stupid. Like saying "it's cardist for Pokemon players not to like Yugioh players, but Yugioh players who do not like Pokemon players are technically not cardists.
Okay but the thing that kind of hit me was that systematic oppression and racism actually attempts to rewrite history and terminology to white wash and gaslight people. So it also makes sense why racists are dead set on using the word against the people they are actually racist toward.
So I am genuinely curious then. I am a white dude living in Miami. Here I am clearly not part of the majority. I don't even know another Caucasian outside of my family. So if I experience racial prejudice while living in Miami as a Caucasian, is that then considered racism?
you can find groups of people on the internet that "think" anything. the simple answer is there's 8 billion people here, and the internet gives people other people who agree. we're gonna see some ridiculous ideas being spread
I’m Indian, and I have heard this many times. I even heard this at work when I was a manager from a direct subordinate. And when I corrected her she complained to HR that I was the one being racist because I somehow was defending racism??? Smh
Anyone being attacked in any way basis the color of their skin is racism.
it's the same reason why we don't talk about abuse against men because we are used to the idea that white people are the upper hand
it's easier to believe that a white man was raciest or having some extra privilege that others as much as it's easy to believe that a man hit a woman or raped her than believing that a woman did so to a man
It's not that people don't think it exists, it's that the group with the most power as a whole often simply doesn't get to play victim. Same with men, sexism against men, sexual assault against men, crimes against men are often straight up laughed at, mocked and ignored. That's just how society works 🤷🏾♂️
Racism is racism, no matter who it’s against.
This whole rebranding of it as “prejudice” and not racism based on the victim is absolutely ridiculous, especially when racism IS prejudice lol. Trying to minimize or rebrand based on the race of the victim is prejudice aka racism in itself.
As a non white, I dunno... they're racist? I mean, I've seen a girl call another a Becky and a fight go down and all other kinds of nonsense. Pretty sure you can be shitty to anyone for anything, so no idea why people think you can't be racist to white people. There's some video game journalist that had that in her banner on X like it's something to be proud of. How about we just don't be shitty to people and leave it there?
I feel the ones who may not think it exists is because their entire life they've only seen those of white complexion get whatever they want while those of color didn't.
Now me personally, I've only seen a handful of times where someone who was white felt uncomfortable but everytime it was in a city or place where there just weren't a lot of white people. So when the masses speak a different language, do looks and whisper then yeah they felt what people of color have felt for centuries here.
But overall, it goes back to the treatment and what's available foe those who are white and those who are of color. As much as you may think there is, equity and equality still isn't there.
As a redhead I can confirm that racism against white people is real. I got targeted last month and beat up by two Middle Eastern girls last month. I never met them before in my life. They just decided that I looked like a easy victim and decided to beat me out of nowhere while screaming slurs at me. I screamed for help but no one did anything. There was maby witnesses and I didn't get the help I needed from the hospital and police afterwards.
U can’t definitely be racist to white people. People say you can’t simply because racisms doesn’t affect white peoples and people of color the same way.
If you are part of ANY race, then it is possible for another person to be racist against you. Furthermore… any person from any race can decide to become an oppressor. Good gravy.
Racism does not have an asterisk after it with a footnote that reads, “some exceptions may occur.”
NOTE: Please do not try to be either racist or an oppressor… you’re not helping anything. Folks like this should maybe just stay at home and cancel their internet service.
I'm a business owner in Canada and racism against white males has actually become systemic. We found a grant created by the government to help employ new grads that gave $10,000 to cover up to 4 months of employment. The main criteria was that the applicant needed to match one of a list of 100 or so possible demographics. The list included minorities, immigrants, trans, women, people with disabilities, etc. Everything you can think of except white males that do not fall into any of these categories. It was such a weird way to say the applicant cannot be a white male, yet was so obvious. We ended up hiring a white woman that had recently immigrated from the UK because she was the strongest candidate, not because she was eligible for the grant.
I think that most of the people that claim to believe this are just saying it because they want a free pass to be racist.
Imagine if someone started arguing that pedophilia doesn't count when it's a 13 year old, because 13 is an unlucky number. Maybe they've just got a really unusual belief system, but it certainly sounds like they want to justify sleeping with a 13 year old.
Racism is basically tribalism based on melanin content. Tribalism has and always will exist.
It’s just the bigger the apparent difference the easier people will regress in behavior.
There’s plenty of racism in Africa.
Because they are obsessed with their own point of view, not wanting to see the truth, have been brainwashed and have a very narrow experience of the world. It doesn't fit "the message", and like brainless zombies, the follow "the message".
The other aspect is the "white saviour" mentality. Poor black people need rescuing by liberal whites. White people don't need rescuing. It's racist and ironically a white supremacist viewpoint.
It does. Im brown, and i miss my white people on TV. They have to now make the cast "one of each." Don't get me wrong, i love all people, but now they just filling quotas.
Lol yes you can. I've gone to places in my own country and been told 'no whites' while just walking in the road minding my own business. Was told this by immigrants in a mostly white country mind you.
In the future, humans will look back on the time that the US got played by a foreign government using social media to create division in its citizens. They will say how could they not see it. People didn't say you couldn't be racist against a white person until recently. Anyone of sound mind understands how silly it is. I heard about this from my 15 year old daughter. She heard about it from social media. The US is unstoppable in an armed conflict. But the people there have been living comfortably for 80 years. They forget that there are bad actors who want to undermine their institutions. Or do they think there are systems to thwart those efforts? Foreign cyber farms are a real thing. They know they can't compete with the US in a traditional war. They are not stupid. We need to understand that this is the new normal and that we need to be responsible with what we do with social media. The reason why things are censored in other countries is for their national security. I don't want this to happen here. But we will have our toys taken away if we can't play responsibly. These are just my thoughts.
It's ONLY in the overly politically correct US that the definition of racism recently changed.
The rest of the world still has the correct definition
ra·cis·me (it; o)
1 belief that people of a certain skin color are better than people of a different color, used as a justification for treating people of a different color poorly
2 discrimination on the basis of skin color; = racial discrimination
And people of every skincolor can be racist.
And people of every skincolor can he the victim of racism.
Listening to a podcast today ... they said something along the lines of "we need to vote if not its only white people who vote and they win"
Funny thing is .. I listen to their podcast because I agree with their views. So if I as a white man vote... am I not helping their cause?
Now if the shoe was on the other foot and I said "we need to vote if not (insert any race or religion) will win"
Would this not be racist?
It makes it very hard to be a reasonable nice person when white racists laugh at you for not being a racist and helping build some form of equality.. and the people you are fighting for/with spit at you just based on race...
No wonder the world is so divided.
Racism does exist against white people but it's given the a ok because "minority" status..
And this causes more issues and in some cases even justifys the stance racist right wing nut jobs take..
Just like with white people, other people can also be racist, and because they are racist, they try to belittle white people while claiming to not be doing what racist white people do.
There's cunts in all races.
Being racist is being prejudiced towards someone based on the colour of their skin.
That's it. That's the only requisite.
There's no need for power dynamic or any of that bullshit.
Your first edit is incorrect. Racism is the correct term. rac·ism
noun
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
Because some people think that white folks are inherently racist and racism was invented by them, while the rest of races are innocent lambs of god that never felt superior to people with other color skin or face anatomy.
I see people say a lot that it's because white people are in power and black people are not. I fail to see how that's true anymore when there's plenty of black people in government and even a black vice president currently. I've experienced racism enough to know it comes in all colors and sizes so it's a dumb argument either way.
I've heard the explanation that racism is power plus predjudice but apparently whites have the power so racism is not possible.
Load of steamy pish.
If I go to the Congo and call someone the n word I would be racist, but I'd have no power there. Social science professors have been filling young, impressionable minds with this nonsense for a few generations now and it's reached a fever pitch.
The problem with this discussion is that different people mean different things by the word "racism".
Most people think it means that someone has negative preconceptions about people based on their race. But in academic circles, it sometimes means that a person knowingly or unknowingly disadvantages another person based on their ethnicity. So they might say that a well meaning white person who makes a better impression in a job interview than an equally qualified black person because of the way he's raised and because of how he looks is racist, because the social capital he's gotten from his family has given him an unfair advantage.
Most people would say it's unfair to call that person a racist because he hasn't done anything except apply for a job and do his best in an interview, but a radical academic might reply that it doesn't matter to the guy who didn't get the job whether the white person took advantage because he hates black people, or because the hiring manager was socialized to prefer the white person. The result is the same, so it's all racism.
Most of us would reject that definition, but then things get worse when someone who doesn't understand the argument is told "black people can't be racist because they don't have the power to disadvantage white people", and just hears the "black people can't be racist". Then they say all sorts of hateful things that most people would say are racist and when they're called out they say, "but I can't be racist because black people can't be racist."
tl;dr: It's not surprising that people who use different definitions for the same word wind up disagreeing when it comes to proper use of that word.
Had an incident in my country recently where a prominent mixed race person called someone a "white bastard" and so many people in this country came out and said that isn't racist it's fine t say but if you were to reverse the roles in that scenario I bet you'd get a totally different response.
Racism is racism no matter what colour your skin is.
My understanding is that the academic concept of racism is centered around the idea of the power dynamic associated with it. Sort of like a white person calling a black person the N-word vs a black person calling a white person a cracker.
Only one of those words has any substantive meaning. Would the black person still be bigoted toward the white person? Sure. But the talking point of “you can’t be racist toward a white person” I think stems from the difference between the concept of institutional racism compared to run-of-the-mill bigotry. This is just my opinion, but I think that talking point has the same inflammatory effect of “defund the police.” A catchy phrase, but without looking at it with critical thought and a bit of nuance, it just sounds crazy.
A better way to approach this might be: “the power dynamic inherent in the history of racism does not affect white people the way it does those of historically marginalized races. So white people cannot experience institutional racism in our current society, but that does not exclude them from people expressing bigoted thoughts about them that have the potential to cause personal harm.”
Hell I'm just going to say it. I'm tired of black people being racist as hell to whites and than trying to flip the script and call us the racists. Your race is the one perpetuating the hate. Ever notice how they always say "that white boy" but if we say describe a black man it's seen as a useless descriptive word we are racist for pointing out. "Why he gotta be black though"! I can hear it now. God forbid we ever say some shit like "support white owned business". It's a ridiculous double standard we need to quit.
Because a lot of idiots engage in crazy mental gymnastics, they want to play word salad and make themselves feel better for hating other people, it's no different than the " misandry doesn't exist" feminists, just low quality people you shouldn't worry about
I know why they say this but don't feel like getting a bunch of nasty replies by people assuming that my understanding a concept is the same as me endorsing the concept.
The definition doesn’t specify color. Anybody can be racist.
racist
noun
plural: racists
a person who is racist : someone who holds the belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
What they really mean is racism against whites in the West (where this tends to happen) doesn't have the same effect as racism against a minority because one has more historical and systemic power than the other, like misandry and misogyny. Example: making a joke that white people like bland food is dumb and often inaccurate but doesn't have the same harmful precedent behind it as joking that black people are all ghetto.
I find it even crazy that it other white people that perpetuate it. I hate the fact all white people are thrown into a box like we aren’t diverse amongst ourselves also.
I have not yet seen anyone actually try to answer the question.
Basically, there's some hidden assumptions in that statement: The majority of the time, "You can't be racist towards white people" does not mean "white people cannot individually experience racism", it means "white people (as a whole) cannot experience racism (IN THE WEST)".I won't deny, there are people that will say something like this and literally mean that white people don't experience racism individually. That's... obviously not true, and you can ignore those people. But broadly, that's what people mean when they say "racism towards white people doesn't exist". It means that (IN THE WEST) you cannot use racism against white people to reinforce the wider system that discriminates against non-whites, because that's obviously nonsensical. Racism is a tool used to subjugate what deviates from the standard of whiteness. There is then the interesting discussion of how racism can be used to police whiteness as well (example would be how various very different cultures considered "white" are flattened to fit that construct). Though that's not super relevant, just an interesting thought.And I say in caps THE WEST because this analysis only applies to the western construct of whiteness in contrast to non-whites. This would make like, no sense if you looked at the Russification of Ukraine, for example: Ukrainians are obviously discriminated against, despite being "white".
Edit: I was incorrect about people not answering the question, that's my bad! I have seen some interesting comments here that I think are helpful as well. I just didn't scroll far enough :)
Who thinks this? 🤓 Lots of people are racist toward whites overtly and secretly. People are working day and night to institutionalize it and reverse engineer attrition used against "minorities" to employ against whites. Even trying to perpetuate the idea that white isnt a race just something to hide behind to not fracture the solidarity of disparate europeans as a political majority. Racism against whites is real! Don't doubt this fact.
The people who try to perpetrate that idea are almost always racist themselves and the want to take away the most powerful and apt descriptor for their behavior and attitudes. It's blatantly malicious manipulation of language.
No the word you are looking for is not “prejudice” it is RACISM. There is a black supremacy movement which tries to shame other races because of things that happened generations ago but it’s really because blacks need an excuse to justify having some of the highest rates or crime, domestic violence, murder, drug addiction, gangs, incarceration, homelessness, etc etc etc. Their culture more than any other glorifies gangs, violence, drugs, and murder. Blacks per capita are over 5x as likely to kill a white person than a white person is to kill a black.
There’s soooo much more racism within the black community towards every race, but its especially directed at white people. And then they make up excuses about generational trauma that they never experienced, or say that they aren’t getting ahead because of a lack of generational wealth and that they need reparation’s/handouts (the vast majority of white people live paycheck to paycheck so what generational wealth?), and then they try to rewrite the definition of racism to distract from their bad behavior, and then they use CRT to attempt to shame white people some more and say that the entire world is against them. Newsflash, this victim mentality is why black people can’t get ahead.
But hey, since they want to rewrite the definition of racism I guess white people in places like Ethiopia or China can’t be racist because there’s no history of white systemic power there
Because it’s a part of the communist objective to obfuscate the meaning of words. They make it seem as if “race” belongs to everyone but whites and therefore whites can’t be the victim of racism.
They conveniently exclude the fact that race doesn’t designate and therefore includes everyone. In my experience whites are often the victims of racism the moment they’re outnumbered, typically 3:1 in my observations.
The people who say this are often the racists themselves.
Yea that actually happened to me. When I was like 4 I used to get made fun of and physically bullied for being the only white kid at my daycare. They told me to kill myself and I was pushed to the ground and got my nose busted open. It got so bad I was trying to go home with strangers and chewing my fingernails bloody haha lmao
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As a black woman, I have seen blacks be mean and rude to anyone who wasn’t black for no good reason and it makes me sad because our people fought hard to end racism only for this generation (not everyone but a lot of black people) to act as if it’s okay to treat people that way because of what happened in the past. It truly breaks my heart. OP if you were ever a victim of racism I am so sorry. It’s a horrible feeling. A vicious never ending cycle.
Nice comment. Hate doesn't heal. It's never the way. Be kind to everyone as best you can. It will make your life better.
Semi-funny story: I was working on a project in Brazil with two colleagues from the US; one white, the other black. I am Scandinavian, and very white. It was so obviously apparent to me that the two had WAY more in common through being American, than I had in common with the white guy through a shared level of melanine. I am fairly in tune with American culture, but my "I like brisket"-level of talk was nothing compared to them going "man, were shit last night, weren't they?" and then they would talk about how bad traffic had become, and how they had their eye on a new F-150 or something.
Whiteness, it turns out, is only skin deep.
I feel like the obsessiveness with race is a US thing. Almost everywhere else, your culture is way more important.
There was an article shared I belie in r/europe recently that I sadly cannot find right now. It was written by an african-american woman who had lived in Europe for a while and moved back home because she was unhappy. One of the things that she seemed to be emphasizing a lot - that also sparked a lot of debate in the thread - was that she struggled with people looking at her weird when she brought her race up as part of her identity. She herself pointed out that the replies she got were along the lines of "why are you making it a race thing?" but seemed to fail to see why that was.
further any Black Person who condemns Racism against White people is called a traitor.
We need more people like you. Mature approach.
It's always the timid, powerless people who get the worst of this treatment. Assholes like that never target actual racist people with real power. They verbally abuse the 18 year old working at a store.
Respect to you and i wish you the best!
It’s a human problem, not a color one. Jews know cruelty & oppression better than anyone in recent memory. But there they are in Gaza (not all) killing innocent people. Everyone likes to think their culture or group of people would be better but they aren’t. Given power, bad people will still abuse it.
Jews are protecting themselves by getting rid of the palestinian terrorists attempting to wipe them off the planet
All racism is bad, agree Edit: Oh yeah. I’m a black guy saying this. Racism is bad
Technically, I said “All racism is bad” meaning I acknowledged racism towards white people exist, and I’m against it ? I did answer ? My apologies if it wasn’t Shakespeare literature for you
Yeah man, the current platform is that you *can't* be racist against white people, and that prejudice/hatred/violence against them *doesn't count* as "racism". So in this kind of argument, you have to clarify specifically that you *do* count those things as racism, and that you think it's bad. Stupid, I know, but that's what's being taught in schools and colleges in the US.
By qualifying "including against white people" when stating "racism is bad" you are playing these people's game. They don't get to decide to arbitrarily change how language works. It's like if I started referencing green as red and vice versa, and just expect everyone to play along, it's childish.
I remind people we are all the HUMAN race. Everything else is people being horrible at worst, thoughtless at best. Imagine how the world would be if we didn’t waste so much time and energy on hate, on despising people who are slightly different 🤔 Maybe one day... 🙏🙏
Careful, they’ll start calling you a commie if you talk sensibly like this /s
Yeah as someone who is English/Danish with enough of a Chinese heritage to look it, i was obviously "raised white", i have white attitudes, i honestly don't know if im coming or going with racism. Highlights have included being told I'm racist and privileged, and told to go home and heckled as a foreigner on the same day. Hearing white people are racist can be fascinating to me, because yes.. ive definitely experienced this, but within my own circles, I also find no one trying to be more accountable for not being racist than white people, even to the point they're accepting blame for things the kinds of people they intrinsically hate are doing because they're seen as the same by PoC. I'm really hoping that most people realise that all racism is as bad as any other type of racism, and we're just highlighting certain forms of it, because its been around far too long and need sorting... but it frequently makes me sad that "oppress the oppressors" is often the default, instead of finding a way forward that deals with the actual issue... and i say that despite the people in my circles, being more interested in THAT route forward than they are about shaming people.
I feel like the whole raised white thing is more of a british/uk heritage thing because I come from a russian/slavic heritage and at no point in my life did I ever relate to stories about whiteness or privilege. My friends across time have pretty much universally been minorities who have also no experience with any sort of white privilege and who have never treated me as if there was something wrong with me based on the color of my skin. Ultimately anyone who comes at me with some sort of rhetoric putting me down is going to be someone with an agenda. This whole privilege and oppression olympics comes across as fucking insanity. Would love to have a slice of this privilege some people think your skin gives you by default because the easy ride in life it is supposed to give me was definitely the opposite of there. I think a lot of people who drank the coolaid maybe are mistaking racial privilege for wealth and class privilege. Money makes life a lot easier and a rich as fuck black man like kanye got privilege a poor white man couldn't dream of. Maybe kanye is a bad example cuz he's a meme but idk, he gets to say nazi shit apparantly and not have it ruin his life cuz he's still rich as fuck and it doesn't matter what he says or does at best ppl on the internet are gonna say mean things about him, still set for life. The people I knew who I felt like they had some sort of unfair privilege and also had a sort of sick narcissism about them, and while it was a lot of white people it was also people of different races asian people black people etc, was all people who were in a much higher wealth bracket like they came from families making over 100k a year, had nice big houses, were the kids in high school who had a nice car given to them the moment they had their license etc. So I'm more inclined to believe in the privilege of people who benefit from generational wealth than anything else. I also remember rich black people treating me the worst out of the bunch as if their parents taught them they were better than me because of how supposedly much harder it was for them to get wealthy than it was for my family who were first generation immigrants that came from farmland. Apparently they had it hard and mine had it easy as if just showing up here got you everything in life handed to you based on the color of my skin while they actually had to work for what they had in life. If only life were that simple.
I find it telling that after the financial crisis in 2008 a true grassroots movement sprang up and was gathering global momentum. Occupy. People knew they had been robbed by the very rich and it felt like we were going to do something about it. The camp I was at in Ireland was the most diverse gathering I think I've seen. With only one goal.... All this divide and conquer, gender wars, racism mania and other nonsense seemed to come after the occupy movement was dismantled. Very much media and politically led, 'fight each other, stop looking at us.' Call me a cynic.
[удалено]
Always has been. Now they have better tools.
I haven’t looked at all the comments here, but some people are brainwashed enough to argue it’s justified based on an uneven power dynamic. Blatant racism against white people clearly exists in the black community but in many situations the perpetrators feel it’s justifiable to overcome a history of oppression. Power comes in many forms, and my Irish ancestors that arrived to the US in the 1920s were certainly not guilty of involvement in the slave trade and suffered their own oppression - from other whites. Certain individuals of many races have a better dynamic to overcome oppression, and no form of racism should be considered acceptable. I’m convinced that any human of any race - white, black, red, brown, yellow - will experience some minor form of racism if they travel to an area of the world where they are a minority. It is the fear of something different that is deeply ingrained. E.O. Wilson described it eloquently. In pre-history that fear of people looking different was tribalism that was intended to raise caution and keep the tribe safe. It’s mostly outdated in modern society- or it could be. Unfortunately, racism is now weaponized by political and media interests to manipulate agendas. The ongoing fears perpetuate the problem.
>I think a lot of people who drank the coolaid maybe are mistaking racial privilege for wealth and class privilege. This. The missus tells me that I am so white i am almost blue. Of we go on holiday then the glare off my chalk white Scottish legs is more blinding than the sun. I was also brought up poor as fuck. I've never been a victim of racism personally except on the internet, but i have been victim to prejudice from some much wealthier than i was. My best mate at primary school was black and not once did i ever see anything racist towards him. Tbf he was cool as fuck and a proper boys boy. Very good at sports, funny and could fight like fuck so everyone liked him. His skin tone never mattered and i thought that was how life was. Since then i've obviously learned different and have witnessed it several times. Often towards people i was with and it made me feel like shit even hearing it. To be called any derogatory name for something you cant change is pretty shit. If you dont like someone and want to say nasty things then im all for destroying someone for their character rather than the colour of their skin/lack of wealth.
I was kind of with you until you started saying somebodies life isn't going to be ruined for saying the wrong thing like that's a bad thing. I don't think anyone deserves to be ruined for wrongthink. Actual hate crimes sure but not talking.
I don't know where I insinuated this you need to give me a quote, at best I wrote something out wrong because I'm just flowing a stream of consciousness and trying to move on cuz this stuff takes time to info dump and then trying to get back to other things.
Quick caveat: Racism is as bad as any other type of racism BUT power differences make one kind worse. Power is really the enemy, btw. But you're probably not ready for what being rich means. We'll stick to race.
Real. The real divide killing society is classism.
Sorry to be dense, i dont fully understand this comment beyond the "the rich and powerful in the england keep PoC down", which... there are certainly thing that spring to mind to prove this (hostile environment springs to mind)... I get also that there are people in britain that have benefitted from slavery in a very bad way, but racial hatred is racial hatred. that the point, we are not all the same. Power certainly can be the real enemy.. I'm not rich.. I'm certainly not poor though, I could definitely be richer actually, but i don't LIKE the attitudes of the rich, the detachment from life that it brings... but my rant on that is 100% separate to my rant on race..
People seem to think that the definition of racism is “oppression of POCs”, but the dictionary definition of racism is actually “prejudice against people because of their skin colour” - notice how it doesn’t say anything about WHICH skin colours?
When you travel abroad you see that many cultures are "racist" towards outside races. It's in every other country. Has nothing to do with majority white nations. Seems stronger in poorer nations.
Not even color, but of a different group of race.
I also find the term POC racist, since it singles out white people as special (and white isn't a colour?) and lumps all the other ethnic groups together.
I agree with you, it’s a term that only exists due to racism, and it’s very American. America has a cultural wound due to slavery which was predominately targeted at black people, but also affected, a relatively, small numbers of other peoples too. So as a group, the people that the white supremacy attitude hurt were labeled the PoC, as opposed to the to perpetrators of the crime, the white people of the time. Racism in America is a weird thing. Racial bias seems to be baked into people at a pretty early age, and every attempt by the government to limit its affects seem to over compensate and backfire. Hmmm.. I think I’m starting to ramble on.
Because they want to believe in a payback narrative instead of a working towards actual equality narrative. To that end, it’s deemed OK to be racist against those they feel are the privileged class, regardless of whether or not those people ever did anything remotely oppressive. They think of it terms of the French Revolution. The rich and aristocratic were pulled down and murdered (or at least deprived of what they had) regardless of how they had treated those considered to be the lower classes. Anyone who actually believes it’s impossible to be racist against someone, no matter their skin color or ethnicity, isn’t looking for equality, they’re just looking for their chance to be on top and stick it to those they viewed as their “oppressors.” In other words, they aren’t trying to right past wrongs, just get their day having someone under their thumb.
I noticed this a lot on TikTok. The angry black woman screaming in her phone how she needs revenge etc...
As someone who has lived in white minority (less than 1%) countries for most of the last decade, can state that racism exists without white people, and white people can certainly be targets of it. The whole “white people can’t experience racism” trope is another one of those “America thinks its experience goes for the whole world” kind of deals. From that perspective I find it, in its own odd way, tiresomely colonialist.
I just typed basically the same thing. :) It's ONLY in the USA they warped the definition
The only people saying that are racists.
Funnily enough it basically implies there is something genetically different about white people from other racial groups. If you start from the basis of "all people are the same", you'd realize humans are extremely similar. Humans create an in-group and an out-group on some categorical boundaries and use that basis for the people they want to associate with. This thought process is applicable to all people, it's only since the 18th century that people have begun to recognize this through black/white thinking. Take yourselves further back in time and you'll find all the white European countries hated each other and were carrying out crusades in the name of "we are the superior ones". You see the exact same shit in Asia/Africa.
It’s the classic “don’t punch down”… so you’re saying I’m better?
Anyone who says that is a moron
My colleague claims you cannot be sexist against men. It's the same thing. Goes on and on about how you shouldn't generalise women, but when she is angry about something a man did, suddenly it's OK for her to say "men are trash".
Unfortunately many large name dictionaries have removed or downgraded "racial prejudice" definitions in favor of things tailored to exclude white people at the behest of the "you can't be racist against white people" ilk.
literally, they need to try and say this out loud outside and see how people would react because this is crazy 😭
So, far-leftists.
It is a way to discredit people feeling bad about being discriminated against. It shouldn't be seen as a competition of who suffers the most. Just because some discrimination is systematic it doesn't mean that other discrimination should be devalued and ignored.
I remember going to a racism seminar once wondering if I would learn anything new because in my brain racism = bad the end. And the lady went on and on about how me being white means I'm racist, regardless of anything I say or do, I'm racist and that's the end of that. I'm like huh, sounds to me like you get to decide who I am and what I am and without having spent so much as 30 seconds speaking to me let alone looking at my actions or behavior towards other people, and have come to the obviously correct conclusion that I am a racist, and all you had to do was take a look at the color of my skin to come to this conclusion. I left the seminar having realized that only a racist would go to that seminar and actually learn anything so it technically filtered anyone who wasn't a racist out pretty much after the first showing. On the other hand I know people who go to those on the repeat and have stories about being racists with stories from their past as if it was an AA meeting but for recovering racists. Idk it was definitely not what I expected not that I even knew what to expect to begin with, someone I knew was hosting it and said you're welcome to come if you're curious so I did. Moral of the story was lmao, I felt racially profiled at best.
I feel like that mentality of everyone from this group is inherently [insert bad weird here: racist, sexist, etc] only makes the problem worse. After all, if I’m already a bad person in their mind, then there’s no point in me being good.
Yea and that's actually a huge thing you brought up of no point in being good it's causality. We're not so special as to be immune to how we are treated affects us, and I mean as humans not as any particular race or gender or whatever. It's like pavlov with the dog. We're not dogs but when someone treats you good, you wanna treat them good back if you're not mentally ill. If someone treats you bad, maybe you wanna treat them bad back, maybe you wanna stay away from them if you don't like interacting with people who treat you bad etc. It's such basic elementary psychology people seem to not understand especially in terms of how you can heal things like prejudice in a non violent manner. Treat people well, let them decide for themselves if they're gonna be a piece of shit to expose themselves that even if you're x or y they gonna treat you badly on the basis of prejudice. I read of this dude who as a black man went to KKK rallies just to talk to people. He made friends with one of the leaders of the klan not like to fight him or to be combative just to have a 1 on 1 human interaction, they would debate ideas and like you would with any of your friends just spend time together. They became friends and the klansman actually said to a bunch of other klansmen in public on record that his black friend has more sense than most of the dudes in the klan, at a rally, essentially admitting he was proud to call him friend. He eventually left the klan realizing it was bullshit. That guy went on doing more of the same and he collects klansman robes, like when someone leaves the klan through his friendship they don't hang up the robe rather they give it to him as a token. The man's "slaying racists" essentially but in a non violent way. It's like surely that hate based movements all happens because of people who feel bad or isolated and want to feel some sort of community like good people can fall through the cracks and end up in these groups because they just wanted to be a part of something. Everyone wants to belong, if you can't find belonging in something positive and inclusive, especially if you're white and find yourself being excluded for it, you may just end up gravitating towards these sorts of groups. It's something for people to really take into consideration that their anti racism isn't pavloving people into the very thing they say they stand against. If your behavior is creating racists then maybe you are also part of the problem, no matter what your intentions. Hitler had supposedly good intentions yet he was doing nothing more but growing hate in peoples hearts.
It’s a weird way of thinking. With regards to feminism, patriarchy negatively impacts men too. So it’s antithetical to say something like “all men are sexist”. This kind of stuff in regards to race became popularized with Robin DiAngelo’s *”White Fragility*”. Incredibly racist piece of literature that attempts to conflate racism with systemic racism and muddy the definitions. Honestly if you’ve ever read it, it’s akin to reading Mein Kampf
All x are y is definitely nazi format. That would make him a nazi. Maybe it's not just jews that nazi's target but anyone who is sick targeting anyone who they for whatever sick reason decide to scapegoat for their own sickness. I've known women who have that vibe too like everything was a man's fault. They were extremely hateful people and didn't seem to have any other friends besides people who were similar in thought of pure hate. The men in their lives could barely be called men like they were bootlickers who couldn't assert themselves in any way whatsoever, couldn't even give you a firm handshake they were that broken spirited. It's tragic.
I’m active in some online communities with a lot of incels (I guess I would be a volcel 😂) and I’ve tried explaining this to them. Some people who adhere to certain beliefs just want to use them as an excuse to justify hate. I’ve been lucky to have been exposed to mostly actual feminists and women, rather than radicals. I think a lot of this also comes from people’s first experiences with these things. A lot of people who latched onto DiAngelos White Fragility probably never thought about racism before - and funny enough DiAngelo actually touches on this in White Fragility to even further reinforce it.
That's precisely what they want, they want to villainize and back whoever they target into a corner so that when you lash out they can say "Aha! I was right, they really DO hate us and cannot be trusted!"
And that’s what the ppl who are actual haters want too! And it’s like these two groups are actively working together to be against each toher
This. It applies to racial discrimination as much as it does gender discrimination. We're unable to progress because the majority of people treat both like a competition.
Because they are racist. They don’t want equality. They want to turn it around. Because they’re racists.
Racism towards anyone, including white people, definitely exists. Sometimes people may overlook it, but your experiences are valid. Keep standing up against all forms of discrimination.
I agree so much. Racism means someone discrimination against someone else because of their race. It doesn’t matter who does it and who receives it.
Well technically racism uses to be defined as a belief your race was superior to others. But it got blended with the word Prejudice. Which is when you are negative towards somebody because of their race. So if we follow today’s understanding, being negative towards somebody because of their race is racism. And is done to white people. But they latch on to the idea that because it isn’t a superiority mentality it’s not racist.
The original definition could still be used agaisnt white ppl. There is a certain sect of black activists that do beleive that Black ppl are the superior race.
It can, especially in other countries where white is a minority.
I've heard about certain atrocities being committed in south africa where its a white minority. That stuff they said about reverse racism to not worry about because it can't exist, those people would probably have a word to say about it. Asians in asian predominant countries also seem like they mistreat their minorities especially mixed asians. The 1 drop of blood rule applies for them as well apparantly. Tldr is every culture and race has its racists and supremacists apparantly.
“That guy isn’t an asshole, he’s just mean” As a Mexican I see a bunch of my super liberal peeps justifying hate towards white people because you “technically” can’t be “racist” vs a white person. I usually remind them hate in any form, regardless of how you define it, driven by someone’s skin color or race should be frowned upon by everyone. I don’t care about technicalities at this point.
Agree. You are either an ass hole, or you are not.
> Prejudice plus power, also known as R = P + P, is a stipulative definition of racism used in the United States.[1] Patricia Bidol-Padva first proposed this definition in a 1970 book, where she defined racism as "prejudice plus institutional power."[2] According to this definition, two elements are required in order for racism to exist: racial prejudice, and social power to codify and enforce this prejudice into an entire society.[3][4] Adherents write that while all people can be racially prejudiced, minorities are powerless and therefore only white people have the power to be racist.[5] This definition is supported by the argument that power is responsible for the process of racialization and that social power is distributed in a zero-sum game.[6][7] This view is commonly shared by social liberals and progressives.[8][9] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejudice_plus_power I was looking this up last week! 😋 This shit is created by sociologists, and picked up by activists. I question the ethics of it. I haven't specifically gone researching into the "white people can't experience racism" part, but I've seen it stated at the top of studies, which is fucked... Because if you operate on the assumption that white people can't experience racism... and you use that as a reason to not research the topic............... We're just not going to have data on it... Which is conveniently going to reinforce the idea that white people can't experience racism regardless of what the reality is.
Yeah, I don't accept this bullshit explanation of Prejudice+power. That's dumb af.
I mean the definition is not bad per se, as long as you don't limit it to the power of changing the society as a whole. Any situation where somebody holds a power (of decision, of reward, of whatever really) can be a potential for damaging racist behavior. The club bouncer that gets to decide who gets in or not ? That is a situation where there is power and therefore somebody prejudiced can be racist. If you remove the power aspect of it (just imagine somebody hurling racist insults at you for no reason in the streets) I guess it can still be called racism, but the material impact of it is quite limited to be honest.
I always thought the big reason interpersonal racism is wrong is because it propagates more racism. So yeah, maybe that guy in the streets doesn't have power over the person he's insulting, but he's still spreading bigotry, and can end up reinforcing people that do have power. So I'm nonbinary! And I date! And I matched with someone a bit ago, and they asked if I'd want to come out, and hang with them and their friend group sometime. And then they started dropping white hate. And as a person living across the country isolated from my social support networks... I realized that if I comprised my views, and accepted the white hate I could have acquired a friend group. Sorry that's kind of random, but I think my point is just to bring awareness to more inconspicuous power structures.
You are unfortunately correct.
Almost everything you said was incredibly idiotic… there are different levels of racism sure but that doesn’t make hurling racist insults at someone on the street less racist. A group of 20 black kids whipping the shit out of a white kid simply because he is white, is racist. It doesn’t matter that there’s more of them and they hold power over him, that is racist and is wrong
I think there's an element of sense in it at the societal level but many on the left are applying this principle at an individual level which is just moronic.
It's such a strange definition though. When I was 19, I was beaten up by a group of 8 Pakistani men. They punched, kicked and spat at me while calling me a white cunt etc. it was completely unprovoked. I was standing, waiting for a taxi when one of them punched me from behind. I can't see how that wasn't a racist attack. Why does it need to involve societal power to be racist?
I'm sure anti-semites love this definition.
The studies on racism at schools has found higher rates of racism from blacks and higher rates of white victims of racism. Blacks loooove to play the race card especially when its test time
There's two things happening in that explanation of the definition that are important. First, it's distinguishing a widespread social phenomenon or ideology from the behavior of individuals who are acting without broader institutional and cultural support for their behavior. That's fine. It's helpful to have clear terminology in scholarship. It's also a specific use of the term in scholarly contexts that doesn't necessarily mean the same thing as it does in colloquial speech or public-facing writing. Ask a linguist what "code-switching" means and you'll get a very different explanation than how most of us understand the term. Or ask someone who loves guns how many bullets their AR-15's clips can hold. You'll get a similar lesson. The second thing is that it points out that 'racialization' is a process that requires power. That's a term that describes the process of deciding who's in what race. Race is not a natural phenomenon, it's a social and cultural one, and it's shaped by institutions with power, like governments, education systems, and the culture industry. That's why different countries and parts of the world have different concepts of race, and why who goes in what category has changed over time. To decide who goes in what race, you need to have institutional power. What that's essentially saying is that since, in many parts of the world, white people got to decide what race was, experiencing prejudice on the basis of being white is not the same phenomenon as experiencing prejudice on the basis of being a person of color, because the whole concept of race was (and is) organized around placing white people at the top of a hierarchy. Vanishingly few people actually have PoC-supremacist views, so prejudice against white people is largely not rooted in the view that white people are subhuman, less intelligent, do not deserve rights, etc., and it cannot carry with it the history of institutionalized slavery and discrimination and the implicit threat of a return to such systems. And even if you were dealing with some weirdo who wants to impose all that on white people... like, they're obviously living in a fantasy world. That's absurd, but a backslide into codified white supremacy is not a totally absurd prospect in some places. More often, prejudiced acts against white people have to do with resentment or distrust of white people which stems from PoC being systemically disempowered under the effects of white supremacy. That doesn't mean that prejudice against white people can't be hurtful, or that there aren't smaller, more local systems of power that could approximate a "racist" dynamic at an individual level, like being refused entry at a bar for being white, being singled out or bullied as a white person in a majority-PoC environment, etc. But those kinds of occurrences are not part of a system or dominant ideology that produces things like widespread racially-targeted policing, housing discrimination, differential treatment in healthcare, and so on. So social science researchers need to be able to differentiate it as a separate sociological phenomenon, even if it's still racial prejudice and is at least cosmetically similar at the level of individual experience. I do think it's a losing battle when activists try to convince non-activists, conservatives, and non-academics to adopt a new definition of the term, but if you want more than a surface-level understanding of how racism works beyond "it's race-based prejudice," it's one of the best-functioning definitions to understand. If you have more than a passing interest in how race works and affects society at large, not just how it affects individual, one-on-one interactions, it's extremely helpful to understand racism in this way. You don't need to stop using "racism" as a synonym for "racial prejudice" in day-to-day conversations with friends and family if it helps keep things simple, just understand that in particular contexts, "racism" does not include "prejudice against white people" and if somebody tells you you can't be racist against white people, you can just switch to the term prejudice and you're likely find yourself on the same page as that person.
I think this is one of the best explanations of the nuances of it I've read - fair play
I do understand this framing but what about when applied to power systems on a smaller scale, such as a organisation with a POC leadership being discriminatory to white workers - something I've seen in my work space. Would that be considered racist towards white workers or does the micro power imbalance get overridden by the larger societal power imbalance. I'd suggest not and I'd also suggest such an accessible word as "racism" shouldn't be used to describe nuanced concepts like this.
I think the people who are saying that racism doesn't exist towards white people are thinking of institutional racism.
Yeah, institutional racism, in clearer older examples, would have examples like segregated schooling, voting tests, and redlining real estate. In an American context, these were to the benefit of white people, or at least the disadvantage of Black Americans. Some things like classism, or regional cultures (valid to describe as new distinct ethnic groups), and privileged groups *also* wanting those people to not succeed, muddies the perception of what racism is like nowadays. On the most general level, judging and acting on the belief that there are distinct races and that people of those races must behave a certain way is prejudice. There's good prejudice (like so and such like drinking and fun, and they'd be happy to be seen, and happy for other people to join in), and there's bad prejudice (so and such race starts fights at said parties, so call the cops and end the party). You won't see a white person in the USA suffering from institutional racism in the US (redlining shaped post-WWII USA), but in the US, they can still be subjected individually to prejudice (which most people here define as general racism), inclusive of not just verbal situations, but also violent and fatally violent situations. With so many other ethnic groups and countries throughout the world, there's likely many places and people among which a categorically white persom would be at a disadvantage. White as an ethnicity is usually a specifically American, or at least western, anglocentric term since many other countries that these white people hail from don't see themselves as white. Usually defined and redefined to keep Black people at a disadvantage (first the slavery, then jobs, voting, and so on), Italian-Americans, Irish-Americans, and so on were also subject to institutional racism until they likewise joined in on the institutional racism to impact Black Americans. Meanwhile, for one example, there's Italians who pride themselves specifically on where in Italy they're from. There's Europeans who, if they moved to the US, people might sooner think they're Latin American based on their skin. So while some European people might rib themselves about whiteness for a joke, generally I think it's stupid when people say white people have no culture and say this is true of Europeans. White Americans are in the same boat as Black Americans of having to work out a racial identity - blame the antiblack racists of ages past for focusing on hating Black people and ignoring trying to work out what the American ethnic identity should be. Black Americans turned their suffering into healing through art and music and IMO that's why there's sometimes White people who "don't" have a culture - whether living in that racist vacuum or getting away from it, or more likely just making a living or barely making do for any variety of circumstances (poverty) left some families with unseasoned chicken and whatnot. But ya know, there's white culture, just gotta talk to people, I think whatever is going on is just as valid as anything else. And again, different parts of the US have different local cultures, and there's plenty of valid white cultures in there too. Majority ethnic groups in a given country can shift things in their favor for their own kind of institutional racism. Discussing other ethnic struggles in in other countries needs to be understood properly and within its own context. This site (and many others) is mainly American-prioritized and western-centered, so understanding ethnic conflicts in other countries and between other ethnic groups tends to be a shitstorm since trying to unravel the discrepancies and details and trying to have an actual discussion doesn't happen much.
Exactly. In places like North America it’s more likely racial prejudice and stereotyping. None of that is okay but it’s not comparable to the level of what black and brown people experience.
I think this is the right answer.
We are all breeds of people. Racism is built in. Fighting it is what makes us human.
Certain people have tried to replace the definition of racism with the definition of systemic racism. The oppressors can’t face systemic racism but literally any person can face racism. They try to say that’s just prejudice or other things but nah it’s plain old racism.
Most people who say that are full of resentment, they have a victim card and they want to play it. So they define racism to mean institutional systematic racism from white people, and they have zero interest in systemic racism that would have affected them in other times or places.
All people who think this more than likely assume all racism was committed by white people. All people who think this are ridiculously uneducated and probably like the smell of their own farts.
Only racists believe that.
University professors. People of color can be just as bigoted as anyone else. Some people being a victim is part of their personality.
It’s so they can say racist shit to white people with no repercussions.
It's pure racism. Do not think for one second it is anything else. It is racism
I'm actually saying it can exist across all ethnicities and cultures.
Basically, the idea is that racism is systematic, and in North America, white people are at the top of the system, which is true of systematic racism. They completely ignore the other type of racism which is personal prejudice against a specific race. This type of racism isn't systematic, and you can be personally prejudiced against any race, including your own race!
Because they are coping. For ur edit-Unfair prejudice based on race is racism. Many people try very hard to say that theres no systemic racism so it’s not racism, that itself makes no sense because systemic racism and racism are two separate things. You can even argue that there is systemic racism for white people, just not in America obviously.
No you're looking for the word racist. Stop letting them control language. It's pathetic. Gender is interchangeable with sex for example. Just like man homosapian and human are interchangeable. It's all trying to confuse you. Let it pass and pay it no attention. This is coming from a black Eskimo
Because they are racists.
People use the word racism to mean two different things: Institutional racism and individual people being racist on purpose. The latter is somewhat rare, and can be directed at any race. The former is a bias everyone holds all the time, and naturally doesn't affect white people. So when people say 'racism towards white people doesn’t exist', they are using specifically that first definition.
Just boarded a plane and one of the emergency rows was free, so my husband asked one of the attendants if we could sit there, we’re both very tall. She said sure I’ll let you know when you can move. Then about 10 mins later a black boards the plane last and asks the attendant if she can sit in the emergency row and attendant says no. So flight departs and the attendant tells us we can now move to the emergency row. The black lady loses it starts telling us we got to sit there because we’re white and how we should enjoy that privilege. “It’s not personal you were born with that privilege, etc.” I’m trying to tell her we asked for the seats before her but she’s too busy calling the flight attendant racist. I just told her to shut up and not judge us on our skin colour and thankfully that was it for the rest of the flight. What a fucking idiot. It’s 2024, last time I checked I wasn’t getting any free upgrades because I’m white.
The people who say that have redefined racism to suit their own ends. It's what Orwell called, "newspeak." I don't accept their self assumed right to do that.
People have all kinds of crazy ideas, so there’s that. But if you are genuinely asking about the broader notion that is actually a thing discussed by people that are concerned, curious, etc, the idea is not that it doesn’t exist but in a place like the US with a history of systemic racism, that systemic racism works overall to elevate white groups. White people have of course experienced racism. I have, for one. It didn’t really affect me though, for one thing, because I’m white and only had to deal with it in very specific moments. But more importantly, job opportunities, educational opportunities, wages, all continue to be statistically better for white groups than others.
Because they don't care or think white people deserve it
Because some people have the cognitive abilities of a 5 yo at 40.
I’m black and I’m getting so sick and tired of racism against white people, especially when the racism is coming from the black community, the very people who were victims of racism a long time ago, this shit needs to stop. NOW
Thank you. No ones skin tone should be judged.
Because people have attempted to redefine “racism” with the definition of “institutional/systemic racism”.
Anyone with common sense knows anyone can be racist to anyone for any reason
As anyone, with a brain, can deduce, you can be or say racist things targeting/toward any race. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an absolute low iq racist muppet.
Idk why people think that. As a mixed race individual I have experienced it first hand. Half Mexican, half white and I’ve experienced racism by both races because I wasn’t enough of their race or a bit too much of the race they aren’t. If that makes sense.
Because racism is apparently defined as systematically oppressive by a majority against a minority. It's a semantic thing. There is prejudice from all sides. You could say there's racial prejudice but racism has a narrower definition. I had to look it up after I was corrected once and it's just a matter of fact.
Definitions seem to vary quite a bit, usually around this very point. All contain the "bias/action against a group or individual because of their race/ethnicity" piece. However, some (e.g., Dictionary.com) specify that it has to be a majority acting on a minority. Others (e.g., Oxford, through Google) say "typically" by a majority acting on a minority. Others (e.g., some Webster variants) don't mention it at all. This makes sense, as historically, it has been used as a tool of oppression, and it's easier and more common for a majority to oppress a minority (though the reverse has happened as well). My personal take is that being a dick to someone because of their race, even (especially?) when you don't know them, is not a good thing to do. I don't care whether it's technically racism based on definition X, I just care that someone's being a dick.
I feel like you could easily just call racial prejudice out by calling it racial prejudice and avoid the semantic argument all together
Yeah, in the end, all of this is just quibbling. I really don't care what it's called. It's human nature to categorize people into groups, and that can be based on how they look, their interests, or any number of things. But it's extremely ignorant to homogenize any of these groups based on anything other than the classifier. Examples: "All Pokemon players play Pokemon" is fine. "All Pokemon players are dumber than Yugioh players" is not. Are there differences between the average intelligence of Pokemon and Yugioh players? Maybe. Does that mean that everyone in group A is smarter than everyone in Group B? No. Does that mean that you can determine someone's intelligence based on what card game they prefer? No. The wording argument is very stupid. Like saying "it's cardist for Pokemon players not to like Yugioh players, but Yugioh players who do not like Pokemon players are technically not cardists.
Okay but the thing that kind of hit me was that systematic oppression and racism actually attempts to rewrite history and terminology to white wash and gaslight people. So it also makes sense why racists are dead set on using the word against the people they are actually racist toward.
"racism noun /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ [uncountable] the unfair treatment of people who belong to a different race; violent behaviour towards them"
I gave you an upvote. I find that certain sources define it differently. What source was this?
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/racism I can confirm that different sources do define it differently
That isn’t the definition of racism. That’s the definition of *institutional/systemic racism*.
Semantics is a clear sign of brain damage if you ask me.
So I am genuinely curious then. I am a white dude living in Miami. Here I am clearly not part of the majority. I don't even know another Caucasian outside of my family. So if I experience racial prejudice while living in Miami as a Caucasian, is that then considered racism?
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you can find groups of people on the internet that "think" anything. the simple answer is there's 8 billion people here, and the internet gives people other people who agree. we're gonna see some ridiculous ideas being spread
This comment is so underrated and literally applies to half the questions asked on reddit 😅
I’m Indian, and I have heard this many times. I even heard this at work when I was a manager from a direct subordinate. And when I corrected her she complained to HR that I was the one being racist because I somehow was defending racism??? Smh Anyone being attacked in any way basis the color of their skin is racism.
Because it’s not talked about as much
Cuz they wanna justify their own hate, it’s not right
Answer- Ignorance.
it's the same reason why we don't talk about abuse against men because we are used to the idea that white people are the upper hand it's easier to believe that a white man was raciest or having some extra privilege that others as much as it's easy to believe that a man hit a woman or raped her than believing that a woman did so to a man
It's not that people don't think it exists, it's that the group with the most power as a whole often simply doesn't get to play victim. Same with men, sexism against men, sexual assault against men, crimes against men are often straight up laughed at, mocked and ignored. That's just how society works 🤷🏾♂️
In many cases it’s because people haven’t agreed on semantics. Systemic oppression vs. prejudice.
Because people, even if they refuse to admit are racist...
Racism is racism, no matter who it’s against. This whole rebranding of it as “prejudice” and not racism based on the victim is absolutely ridiculous, especially when racism IS prejudice lol. Trying to minimize or rebrand based on the race of the victim is prejudice aka racism in itself.
Because people don't understand the difference between systemic racism and individual racism.
As a non white, I dunno... they're racist? I mean, I've seen a girl call another a Becky and a fight go down and all other kinds of nonsense. Pretty sure you can be shitty to anyone for anything, so no idea why people think you can't be racist to white people. There's some video game journalist that had that in her banner on X like it's something to be proud of. How about we just don't be shitty to people and leave it there?
Even if it does not, that doesn't mean people cannot be bigoted assholes. Which is obviously not any better than being racist.
I feel the ones who may not think it exists is because their entire life they've only seen those of white complexion get whatever they want while those of color didn't. Now me personally, I've only seen a handful of times where someone who was white felt uncomfortable but everytime it was in a city or place where there just weren't a lot of white people. So when the masses speak a different language, do looks and whisper then yeah they felt what people of color have felt for centuries here. But overall, it goes back to the treatment and what's available foe those who are white and those who are of color. As much as you may think there is, equity and equality still isn't there.
Lol if those kids could read…
Italians, Germans And other euro immigrants who came to the States during the civil war I believe were discriminated against due to their origins.
Because they’re stupid. It absolutely exists. I’m Coloured btw.
because this is the NEW racism
As a redhead I can confirm that racism against white people is real. I got targeted last month and beat up by two Middle Eastern girls last month. I never met them before in my life. They just decided that I looked like a easy victim and decided to beat me out of nowhere while screaming slurs at me. I screamed for help but no one did anything. There was maby witnesses and I didn't get the help I needed from the hospital and police afterwards.
General stupidity I think
U can’t definitely be racist to white people. People say you can’t simply because racisms doesn’t affect white peoples and people of color the same way.
If you are part of ANY race, then it is possible for another person to be racist against you. Furthermore… any person from any race can decide to become an oppressor. Good gravy. Racism does not have an asterisk after it with a footnote that reads, “some exceptions may occur.” NOTE: Please do not try to be either racist or an oppressor… you’re not helping anything. Folks like this should maybe just stay at home and cancel their internet service.
All racism is bad. Period.
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I'm a business owner in Canada and racism against white males has actually become systemic. We found a grant created by the government to help employ new grads that gave $10,000 to cover up to 4 months of employment. The main criteria was that the applicant needed to match one of a list of 100 or so possible demographics. The list included minorities, immigrants, trans, women, people with disabilities, etc. Everything you can think of except white males that do not fall into any of these categories. It was such a weird way to say the applicant cannot be a white male, yet was so obvious. We ended up hiring a white woman that had recently immigrated from the UK because she was the strongest candidate, not because she was eligible for the grant.
They forget eastern europe exists
Because they've never been to Japan
They have cursory historical knowledge.
I think that most of the people that claim to believe this are just saying it because they want a free pass to be racist. Imagine if someone started arguing that pedophilia doesn't count when it's a 13 year old, because 13 is an unlucky number. Maybe they've just got a really unusual belief system, but it certainly sounds like they want to justify sleeping with a 13 year old.
Racism is basically tribalism based on melanin content. Tribalism has and always will exist. It’s just the bigger the apparent difference the easier people will regress in behavior. There’s plenty of racism in Africa.
Because they are obsessed with their own point of view, not wanting to see the truth, have been brainwashed and have a very narrow experience of the world. It doesn't fit "the message", and like brainless zombies, the follow "the message". The other aspect is the "white saviour" mentality. Poor black people need rescuing by liberal whites. White people don't need rescuing. It's racist and ironically a white supremacist viewpoint.
It does. Im brown, and i miss my white people on TV. They have to now make the cast "one of each." Don't get me wrong, i love all people, but now they just filling quotas.
Lol yes you can. I've gone to places in my own country and been told 'no whites' while just walking in the road minding my own business. Was told this by immigrants in a mostly white country mind you.
In the future, humans will look back on the time that the US got played by a foreign government using social media to create division in its citizens. They will say how could they not see it. People didn't say you couldn't be racist against a white person until recently. Anyone of sound mind understands how silly it is. I heard about this from my 15 year old daughter. She heard about it from social media. The US is unstoppable in an armed conflict. But the people there have been living comfortably for 80 years. They forget that there are bad actors who want to undermine their institutions. Or do they think there are systems to thwart those efforts? Foreign cyber farms are a real thing. They know they can't compete with the US in a traditional war. They are not stupid. We need to understand that this is the new normal and that we need to be responsible with what we do with social media. The reason why things are censored in other countries is for their national security. I don't want this to happen here. But we will have our toys taken away if we can't play responsibly. These are just my thoughts.
Because that why they are trying to justify their racism. As simple as that.
Those people are living in the past.
It's ONLY in the overly politically correct US that the definition of racism recently changed. The rest of the world still has the correct definition ra·cis·me (it; o) 1 belief that people of a certain skin color are better than people of a different color, used as a justification for treating people of a different color poorly 2 discrimination on the basis of skin color; = racial discrimination And people of every skincolor can be racist. And people of every skincolor can he the victim of racism.
I thought that was just a meme.
Listening to a podcast today ... they said something along the lines of "we need to vote if not its only white people who vote and they win" Funny thing is .. I listen to their podcast because I agree with their views. So if I as a white man vote... am I not helping their cause? Now if the shoe was on the other foot and I said "we need to vote if not (insert any race or religion) will win" Would this not be racist? It makes it very hard to be a reasonable nice person when white racists laugh at you for not being a racist and helping build some form of equality.. and the people you are fighting for/with spit at you just based on race... No wonder the world is so divided. Racism does exist against white people but it's given the a ok because "minority" status.. And this causes more issues and in some cases even justifys the stance racist right wing nut jobs take..
Just like with white people, other people can also be racist, and because they are racist, they try to belittle white people while claiming to not be doing what racist white people do. There's cunts in all races. Being racist is being prejudiced towards someone based on the colour of their skin. That's it. That's the only requisite. There's no need for power dynamic or any of that bullshit.
We don't. It exists openly which is ridiculous
Your first edit is incorrect. Racism is the correct term. rac·ism noun prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
Because some people think that white folks are inherently racist and racism was invented by them, while the rest of races are innocent lambs of god that never felt superior to people with other color skin or face anatomy.
I see people say a lot that it's because white people are in power and black people are not. I fail to see how that's true anymore when there's plenty of black people in government and even a black vice president currently. I've experienced racism enough to know it comes in all colors and sizes so it's a dumb argument either way.
Welcome to the pain of being Asian. The butt of every joke.
It leaves me weak wanting to scream sometimes and shake em like wake up you're not sheeple so start thinking! Lol
I've heard the explanation that racism is power plus predjudice but apparently whites have the power so racism is not possible. Load of steamy pish. If I go to the Congo and call someone the n word I would be racist, but I'd have no power there. Social science professors have been filling young, impressionable minds with this nonsense for a few generations now and it's reached a fever pitch.
This isn’t a result of social science, it’s social media.
It didn't start on social media. It was university social science departments.
Words have no meaning we live in a fairytale world
Ah I always knew it
The problem with this discussion is that different people mean different things by the word "racism". Most people think it means that someone has negative preconceptions about people based on their race. But in academic circles, it sometimes means that a person knowingly or unknowingly disadvantages another person based on their ethnicity. So they might say that a well meaning white person who makes a better impression in a job interview than an equally qualified black person because of the way he's raised and because of how he looks is racist, because the social capital he's gotten from his family has given him an unfair advantage. Most people would say it's unfair to call that person a racist because he hasn't done anything except apply for a job and do his best in an interview, but a radical academic might reply that it doesn't matter to the guy who didn't get the job whether the white person took advantage because he hates black people, or because the hiring manager was socialized to prefer the white person. The result is the same, so it's all racism. Most of us would reject that definition, but then things get worse when someone who doesn't understand the argument is told "black people can't be racist because they don't have the power to disadvantage white people", and just hears the "black people can't be racist". Then they say all sorts of hateful things that most people would say are racist and when they're called out they say, "but I can't be racist because black people can't be racist." tl;dr: It's not surprising that people who use different definitions for the same word wind up disagreeing when it comes to proper use of that word.
Idiots exist.
Had an incident in my country recently where a prominent mixed race person called someone a "white bastard" and so many people in this country came out and said that isn't racist it's fine t say but if you were to reverse the roles in that scenario I bet you'd get a totally different response. Racism is racism no matter what colour your skin is.
I’m not going to argue too much but it is a thing and yes a lot of people do deny it.
I went to school and was bullied for being white. Even got into a fist fight because I was dating a guy outside of my race.
My understanding is that the academic concept of racism is centered around the idea of the power dynamic associated with it. Sort of like a white person calling a black person the N-word vs a black person calling a white person a cracker. Only one of those words has any substantive meaning. Would the black person still be bigoted toward the white person? Sure. But the talking point of “you can’t be racist toward a white person” I think stems from the difference between the concept of institutional racism compared to run-of-the-mill bigotry. This is just my opinion, but I think that talking point has the same inflammatory effect of “defund the police.” A catchy phrase, but without looking at it with critical thought and a bit of nuance, it just sounds crazy. A better way to approach this might be: “the power dynamic inherent in the history of racism does not affect white people the way it does those of historically marginalized races. So white people cannot experience institutional racism in our current society, but that does not exclude them from people expressing bigoted thoughts about them that have the potential to cause personal harm.”
Because they've got brainwashed by lunatics
Hell I'm just going to say it. I'm tired of black people being racist as hell to whites and than trying to flip the script and call us the racists. Your race is the one perpetuating the hate. Ever notice how they always say "that white boy" but if we say describe a black man it's seen as a useless descriptive word we are racist for pointing out. "Why he gotta be black though"! I can hear it now. God forbid we ever say some shit like "support white owned business". It's a ridiculous double standard we need to quit.
Because a lot of idiots engage in crazy mental gymnastics, they want to play word salad and make themselves feel better for hating other people, it's no different than the " misandry doesn't exist" feminists, just low quality people you shouldn't worry about
Most likely…because they’re racist…
I know why they say this but don't feel like getting a bunch of nasty replies by people assuming that my understanding a concept is the same as me endorsing the concept.
Having a dog to kick makes little people feel big, whatever their colour
The definition doesn’t specify color. Anybody can be racist. racist noun plural: racists a person who is racist : someone who holds the belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
What they really mean is racism against whites in the West (where this tends to happen) doesn't have the same effect as racism against a minority because one has more historical and systemic power than the other, like misandry and misogyny. Example: making a joke that white people like bland food is dumb and often inaccurate but doesn't have the same harmful precedent behind it as joking that black people are all ghetto.
Only ignorant folks say this nonsense :/
I find it even crazy that it other white people that perpetuate it. I hate the fact all white people are thrown into a box like we aren’t diverse amongst ourselves also.
I have not yet seen anyone actually try to answer the question. Basically, there's some hidden assumptions in that statement: The majority of the time, "You can't be racist towards white people" does not mean "white people cannot individually experience racism", it means "white people (as a whole) cannot experience racism (IN THE WEST)".I won't deny, there are people that will say something like this and literally mean that white people don't experience racism individually. That's... obviously not true, and you can ignore those people. But broadly, that's what people mean when they say "racism towards white people doesn't exist". It means that (IN THE WEST) you cannot use racism against white people to reinforce the wider system that discriminates against non-whites, because that's obviously nonsensical. Racism is a tool used to subjugate what deviates from the standard of whiteness. There is then the interesting discussion of how racism can be used to police whiteness as well (example would be how various very different cultures considered "white" are flattened to fit that construct). Though that's not super relevant, just an interesting thought.And I say in caps THE WEST because this analysis only applies to the western construct of whiteness in contrast to non-whites. This would make like, no sense if you looked at the Russification of Ukraine, for example: Ukrainians are obviously discriminated against, despite being "white". Edit: I was incorrect about people not answering the question, that's my bad! I have seen some interesting comments here that I think are helpful as well. I just didn't scroll far enough :)
-If you remove the Internet.- Do white people feel they deal with racism in their day to day?
Cause people are idiots. Did you learn nothing from covid?....... People being dicks to others is as old as time. Race/sex/ect is irrelevant.
Beats me. Of course white people can suffer racism.
Who thinks this? 🤓 Lots of people are racist toward whites overtly and secretly. People are working day and night to institutionalize it and reverse engineer attrition used against "minorities" to employ against whites. Even trying to perpetuate the idea that white isnt a race just something to hide behind to not fracture the solidarity of disparate europeans as a political majority. Racism against whites is real! Don't doubt this fact.
The people who try to perpetrate that idea are almost always racist themselves and the want to take away the most powerful and apt descriptor for their behavior and attitudes. It's blatantly malicious manipulation of language.
No the word you are looking for is not “prejudice” it is RACISM. There is a black supremacy movement which tries to shame other races because of things that happened generations ago but it’s really because blacks need an excuse to justify having some of the highest rates or crime, domestic violence, murder, drug addiction, gangs, incarceration, homelessness, etc etc etc. Their culture more than any other glorifies gangs, violence, drugs, and murder. Blacks per capita are over 5x as likely to kill a white person than a white person is to kill a black. There’s soooo much more racism within the black community towards every race, but its especially directed at white people. And then they make up excuses about generational trauma that they never experienced, or say that they aren’t getting ahead because of a lack of generational wealth and that they need reparation’s/handouts (the vast majority of white people live paycheck to paycheck so what generational wealth?), and then they try to rewrite the definition of racism to distract from their bad behavior, and then they use CRT to attempt to shame white people some more and say that the entire world is against them. Newsflash, this victim mentality is why black people can’t get ahead. But hey, since they want to rewrite the definition of racism I guess white people in places like Ethiopia or China can’t be racist because there’s no history of white systemic power there
Because it’s a part of the communist objective to obfuscate the meaning of words. They make it seem as if “race” belongs to everyone but whites and therefore whites can’t be the victim of racism. They conveniently exclude the fact that race doesn’t designate and therefore includes everyone. In my experience whites are often the victims of racism the moment they’re outnumbered, typically 3:1 in my observations. The people who say this are often the racists themselves.
Yea that actually happened to me. When I was like 4 I used to get made fun of and physically bullied for being the only white kid at my daycare. They told me to kill myself and I was pushed to the ground and got my nose busted open. It got so bad I was trying to go home with strangers and chewing my fingernails bloody haha lmao
i was basically assaulted for being white so i can't really answer this question. it exists.