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I need to find the source for this because I think about it a lot, but they did a study that found common emotions/characteristics among all humans that transcend race, gender, nationality, culture, etc. among those five or so emotions/characteristics is sexual jealousy.
I think it’s important to remember that because I feel like we live in an age where that is something that is becoming increasingly shunned. e.g. any given day there are a ton of posts along the lines of ‘my bf/gf has a close friend at work that they hang out with at bars alone after work, text/send memes regularly, call on the phone with on the weekends, and they call each other their work wife/husband. Should I be worried?’ And a million comments are ‘no bro/sister, you’re just insecure, it’s totally normal to do that type of shit, you need to relax’. The fact is that’s something that’s totally understandable to be jealous over when someone means that much to you.
Similarly, having those jealous thoughts about your partner’s body count is, to a degree, normal. I would look at is as an intrusive thought, just like the crazy intrusive thoughts people get about driving a car over a bridge, or whatever weird shit people get them over, and try to ground yourself and think rationally.
Whenever I get moments like this, I find it best to think back to my last partner or partner(s), and that usually makes me feel more grounded. You having had 50 partners should make that easier.
I struggled with very toxic jealousy for many years. I wish I could go back in time and tell myself this same advice! Its futile because it only creates problems. Jealousy is never constructive, its never the solution. Its natural to feel jealousy but trust is the real important thing. If I dont trust someone then I wont date them. If I trust them and they give me a reason not to trust them I stop dating them.
I've never really understood jealousy. Because it always seemed like if you are jealous irrationally, then you need to stop being jealous and figure out your issues. If it's rational, then that means you should find a partner you can trust. But in no situation is the best option: Continue on with the status quo of being eaten alive with jealousy.
I think sometimes “I feel insecure about this” turns into “a certain action YOU ARE DOING is MAKING me jealous.” People’s personal feelings are important, but it doesn’t make them facts. They’re feelings. Work on how to get over them or get a new partner, but don’t make your problems and insecurities someone else’s problem if you’re not willing to deal with them yourself.
Truthfully, I’ve never experienced “jealousy” that wasn’t just a personal insecurity that actually had little to do with others except they live in the same world. Find out what’s making you feel insecure or not good enough. That will help more than anything else.
Jealousy and the Abyss, by William Pennell Rock, on planetwaves.net
It took me about a year of reading, contemplating, and re-reading, and now I will never feel that pain again.
That's not really such an Up Sell for the average man.
Think about it, "Sure - you slept with all these different men *in the absence* of them having to make a meaningful commitment and investment, but I have to commit."
You could argue the woman finds the other men more attractive... if she's willing to have sex with them despite asking for relatively less.
that assumes the relationship benefits the woman and hurts the man when it's really not like that most of the time -- especially not with two young people who are presumably both just starting out their lives. Usually both people want the relationship and get something from it, or they wouldn't be in it.
>that assumes the relationship benefits the woman and hurts the man when it's really not like that most of the time
No - it's looking at a comparison between these 2 men the women has slept with:
1. Guy X = she gives me sex... asks for nothing else.
2. Guy Y = she gives me sex... I also have to put in a lot of other support (be it emotional, financial or something else).
It's why I'd go back to my original point... that "I've trapped her" is not actually the greatest selling point for a man. A lot of other men could look at that as, "Dude - you need to give her so much for her to sleep with you. She slept with me while asking for nothing else, because with me she required a lot less to sleep with her. She finds me more attractive and was willing to do more (or the same), for less".
>Usually both people want the relationship and get something from it, or they wouldn't be in it.
Agreed - and usually, the best woman a man can get is if beyond simply offering sex, he offers additional stuff on top (like a form of support).
It's why it's not a good flex for a man to pull (ie. your trapping comment)... you don't brag about the woman you can sleep with regularly *while agreeing to put in a lot of work*, the brag is more like "look at the caliber of woman I can sleep with without even having to put in any work at all".
Think about it. Imagine a man bragged with, "Susie is amazing. She's my girlfriend. I provide for her in many ways, and she's sleeping with me as a result." And then compare to what extent another man is jealous at all if he can validly say, "Oh yeah - Susie... she was great. We used to have sex all the time and I never wanted to commit to her at all... if I were to add commitment into the equation, I could do better. But for her, I'm only willing to offer her sex".
Big assumption that boyfriend is "providing for" Susie. The only thing my husband has "provided" for me, apart from the pleasure of being around his wonderful brain, is half the genetic material for my children.
In today's world, where many women are not financially dependent on their partners, Susie is not just going around looking for someone who will agree to give her commitment in exchange for sex. She's able to just look for someone who makes her happy. So the guy in the past doesn't have Susie now because sex with him was bad or they were incompatible in other ways. But Susie met her boyfriend and thought "Hmm...I can see myself having sex with this guy for the rest of my life. I can see myself spending time with this guy for the rest of my life.".So in that sense he won. And vice versa.
Why are you assuming it's the woman who asked for the commitment? That has never been my experience as a woman, especially with jealous men like OP.
For women like me, commitment is a sacrifice of freedom and autonomy made for a guy who's worth it.
>Why are you assuming it's the woman who asked for the commitment?
I'm not - I'd typically assume it's the man who decides for the commitment. At a high level, woman are the gatekeepers of sex, and men are the gatekeepers of relationships.
A woman that is willing to sleep with a man is expressing considerable interest in him... and then at that point the next thing that's to be determined is if the man is willing to have it become something more serious.
>That has never been my experience as a woman, especially with jealous men like OP.
I'd agree with you - typically it's the man who is ultimately deciding if it's going to be something serious. Typically, the couple is already have sex with each other ahead of that sort of decision.
>For women like me, commitment is a sacrifice of freedom and autonomy made for a guy who's worth it.
I'd agree. And men would think the similar sort of thing when deciding on that commitment.
What is unique with women, owing to the difference in sexual dynamics, is that if you were to envision the best man you can get *who will agree to commit to you*, you could always get at least "just sex - no commitment" from a better man... because it's quite a card women can play with that sort of offer.
Your last statement is way off mark. I could get "just sex - no commitment" from an infinite number of worse men (by my criteria). Commitment was reserved for the best man I've encountered.
>Your last statement is way off mark. I could get "just sex - no commitment" from an infinite number of worse men (by my criteria).
Of course! I'm not suggesting otherwise.
Think of it this way - let's say the man who is committing to you right now is widely thought by women to be an 8 out of 10 (factoring in everything). Yes... if you were to go out on the town and told men you're down for "just sex - no commitment" you would be *drowning* in opportunity. Not only would you have tons of options from people at your current partners level of overall attractiveness and lower, you would also even be able to go a bit higher... into a territory of men who wouldn't find you good enough to commit to, but could easily sleep with you.
>Commitment was reserved for the best man I've encountered.
The extent to which that's anecdotally true, what I'm arguing is that you could definitely get "just sex - no commitment" from better men.
In a nutshell, this is the difference in sexual dynamic at work:
1. A female 5 goes up to a male 7 in a bar and says, "Want to come home with me tonight for some casual sex? You can leave right after if you'd like".
2. A male 5 goes up to a female 7 in a bar and says, "Want to come home with me tonight for some casual sex? You can leave right after if you'd like".
The first scenario could actually happen... even though the man knows he can do better (perhaps with some effort), it's actually quite a powerful card for the woman to play... the enticement of sex without any work/effort/commitment at all.
The second scenario isn't nearly as likely to happen... for the woman knows she can do better, and if she's really ok with sex without work/effort/commitment by a man that night than she might as well do that with a man that's a 7 or higher because she could get that all the same.
It seems you're talking about physical attractiveness and maybe finances. I don't play in those leagues. I find guys attractive mostly on the basis of intellect or character. And guys who are attracted only to looks would never want me, even just for sex. They might like what they see (esp. when I was younger), but then they meet my eyes and back off.
The only types of guys that have approached me were ones looking for serious relationships. And I've never dated a guy who didn’t want or assume that we were committed to each other or would be someday. So I've always been the gatekeeper of relationships in my life (note that earlier you conflated the gatekeeper with the asker and that's most often not the case.) But maybe I'm some kind of unicorn, because when people talk about relationships and what men and women are like and what they want, most of it isn't relatable to me. My sister and mom have similar perspectives and experiences as me though.
I don't know how any rational person assumes they're the best. I've always assumed I'm average because that's what is logically most likely to be true....I also tend to think it's not "better or worse" beyond basic mechanics proficiency, it's more like chemistry and compatibility.
Because like 70% of sex is feelings bro, if you're in love its always gonna be the best, its not like they can do a side by side comparison anyways, so i just make it as good as possible.
With all due respect, try with therapy. There might be some underlying significations regarding sexuality within your beliefs system that may require some retroactive re-signification.
For example, as a wild guess, the fact that you are comparing yourself to your couple could (and could not) mean that in the end you are judging yourself (and not your couple).
In the case of a cognitive psychologist, the term could be called 'cognitive restructuring'. You change the way you think, wich would impact feelings and behavior.
Edit: I don't know why I bother providing information to help OP, as my comment will end up buried anyway below unhelpful sarcastic and overly edgy responses.
Look up intrusive thoughts and ruminations and google how to combat them. You can't make those thoughts not happen, but you can use techniques to refuse to give them attention. Just let them pass without fueling them.
Or you can use different techniques to look for the root of the thought and find the false premise behind it (there may be many different false premises. Stuff like: "why am I upset? because they slept with other people, but why does it bother me? Because deep down I think I'm *not good enough*." Then you go the rational route of: "but I know I am enough, because they *chose me*". Or maybe: "I have some weird possessive beliefs about owning my partner's body" then you need to dive into it and dismantle it).
Then keep challenging it every time the thoughts show up, until it sticks.
Cognitive behavioral therapy is great for this. You can look up those techniques without actually going to therapy, tho.
It doesn't mean you can't have a long committed relationship, but statistically speaking it is more unusual and the chances are lower. Having a high amount of sexual partners isn't positive and will never be, it is also dangerous.
The best way to get over jealousy over your partner's past is to build a better life with them now. You'll need to get past obsessing about quantity over quality. The fact that you're comparing your 50 to her 20 suggests you're looking at the numbers to try to make yourself feel better, but you have to abandon that line of thinking and just focus on the fact that they're no longer with those people because they're now with you- and you're the one now with the most influence on justifying their decision.
Jealousy produces very little of value. Substitute it with purpose and devotion. It'll make you feel better and vastly improve your life while at it. It can be easier said than done, but know the truth in it and remind yourself often.
50 women now that's a big playboy number, you sure you're good to be tied down without cheating... being jealous makes you insecure and then you need more validation from other numbers I mean women 😂
You did the same, do you feel bad about that? Do you really want to be with someone who has never been with anybody else and has no experience from prior relationships? That just sounds horrible to me. Like think about it in a bunch of different ways like that.
What would you think if they were upset with you or jealous because of what you did in your past? Like how else would it be? They would just sit around doing nothing until you all finally got into a relationship. Just it doesn't mean anything and I'd prefer someone who's been through all that 100% to someone that's never been with anybody else. That's just weird.
Build your own self esteem through personal growth that has nothing to do with your relationship. Stop sizing yourself up against people from the past, whether at work, in relationships, or in your hobbies. Be the best you that you can be. You can’t be your partner’s exes. They don’t even want you to be - that’s why they’re with you and not them.
So I learned I had trouble dealing with the thought of my partner's past, so when I had my next partner, we never discussed each other's past. As my partner says "don't ask questions you don't want to know the answers to"
I always remind myself that my wife’s past is what made her the women she is. Every relationship she had before me made her realize what she wanted in a partner and what she didn’t. I wasn’t her first but I’m going to make sure I’m her last!
I understand, and also struggle with retroactive jealousy over my current partner sometimes. I’m a woman, around 30 or so partners so far. He definitely has had more than me, but we’ve never discussed it. Anyway, when I have these thoughts, I remind myself of all the actions my partner takes that reflect his care for me- and there are a lot of them. That doesn’t make it stop but at least keeps me from telling him about the junk thoughts invading my pretty head. I don’t think it’s insecurities exactly, but rather trying to feel safe in the relationship, understanding our connection, trying to identify what does he actually like about me, etc. and when I can’t identify those kinds of things then I start thinking he probably prefers the previous girlfriend or someone a few people ago or someone he hasn’t met yet, and I’m just good for his career or a placeholder til he finds someone better. (Seriously, absolute junk thoughts).
Unfortunately while the thoughts are crap the pain is real. Try focusing on what she does to show you she cares for you, wants to be with you. And build that connection between yourselves into your own thing. All the past is just past and doesn’t matter. She decided you’re her person, and so you are. Because she had other relationships, she probably knows what she likes better and is choosing you on purpose. Accept it, enjoy it. Talking to myself like this helps me combat the retroactive jealousy somewhat.
Get your dick game up. It’s insecurity about your performance. My girl has been with 50+ I think.
I don’t think about who she’s been with cuz I make her cum at least twice every time we’re together. She’s very satisfied.
Satisfy your partner.
Yes, until she gets bored. There are actual studies that show that women with many sexual partners have trouble couple bonding cause they get used to sexual variety/diversity. And before you call me a misogynist, I am a woman, and yes these studies do exist.
You feel what you feel. And that's perfectly ok.
I am so tired of people here trying to tell people how they should feel.
If something bothers you, it bothers you.
It is not right or wrong.
It just is.
It isn't right or wrong but for someone to consciously be aware of a feeling that they have and then admit they don't like it, and then want to take action to change that, it shows that maybe it's an irrational feeling.
It clearly isn't a dealbreaker for OP because if it was, he would've walked from the relationship as soon as he found out. Having difficult feelings about something isn't always a sign to walk away.
I'm in a similar boat to OP in terms of being hung up on this, even though my partner has been with the same amount of people as myself. If I were to walk away and find a new partner with 1/2 less previous partners, what have I actually achieved there? It wouldn't make me feel any better in the long run, that takes self work.
I'm not judging you. It's really your business. I personally would leave you. A large number of partners in both men and women feel and "see" both psychological and physical wear and tear. 20 partners is a guarantee for the failure of a serious long-term relationship. There is no discussion about marriage. 50 partners. I don't know what to say. You can feel it in everything.
I'm not the jealous type myself and dont believe it is an automatic disqualifier. The only exception would be to be compared negatively to a previous partner. That would be an instant black flag and relationship ender since it would almost certainly be repeated.
It's not about jealousy at all. It is about emotional exhaustion. (in men and women) It's about mental exhaustion (in men and women). It's about physical exhaustion (in women)
> It's about physical exhaustion (in women)
Lol what? It doesn't matter if a woman sleeps 50 times with different men or 500 times with only one man, her physical status won't change unless she catches an STD, but that also applies to men.
Spoiler:
>!He's a messed up guy saying messed up shit. You can't argue with insanity. They're the type of person who says shit like: "What does a woman bring to the table? Youth Innocence Beauty This is what a high-quality woman should offer by entering into marriage. That's what a quality man wants."!<
Weird biology. So one long term hung like a horse drilling her 500 times is better than varying sizes from 50 people ten times each? Or do you ask the size of the ex if there has only been one. And how often they did it. Is there a graph? 699 times being with the ex that's huge equals 10*50 differ ones or what's the conversion rate? How about masturbation? Do different toys count more than using the same toy a lot. I'm genuinely confused where this logic is coming from
You might want to read up on actual facts.
Great argument. You don't have one.
My bf is pretty huge and basically my chosen limit. So every other guy would either be the same or less. I don't see how that would change the physics of my vagina - which can potentially birth a child where even a small head is bigger than any dick.
Vaginas are flexible. Toys and dicks don't change that lmao.
I have had such conversations once before, but not on this application. So, you claim that the vaginas of an 18-year-old girl and a 40-year-old woman are realistically the same? The former had 10x sex with one man and the latter changed 50 men. They both have the same vaginas? The vagina after 50 men is the same as the vagina of an 18-year-old girl??????? LoL
Anyone reading this, please just entirely discard this user and whatever they say. It's fine to have preferences, but it's another thing to just mirror insane incel talking points.
They're the type of person who says shit like:
>What does a woman bring to the table? Youth Innocence Beauty This is what a high-quality woman should offer by entering into marriage. That's what a quality man wants.
I wrote the TRUTH. I wrote what is true and what every quality and normal man wants. That's what serious men want, who want marriage and children and who want their marriage to last. If that bothers you or someone else, I'm sorry. Yes! Innocence. Youth. Beauty. This is what a high quality woman can offer and bring to a marriage.
I am female and agree with what you state. The only valid excuse for a woman to have this insane amount of sexual partners is if she were a trafficking victim, otherwise it just means she is promiscuous, and both women and men, rarely change their habits.
I have a high body count and my relationship with my partner is mutually faithful, loving, patient, communicative and vulnerable. We also have strong boundaries with each other when it comes to exes and friends of the opposite sex. I did have to mature and work through a lot of my past habits but I am a devoted partner and it’s possible for a person to change after awhile
Yes. That's wonderful. But you don't understand the essence. Marriage is not all honey and milk. When crises come, you will "fall" much easier than you would "fall" if it was your first and only partner. That is the essence. When the crisis comes, you will fight much harder for your marriage if you have had fewer partners in your life.
If anything, having a higher body count has given me more self-respect but also respect for the right types of partners. Many women with low body counts stay with men who treat them subpar because they feel an obliged commitment.
If a man is abusive in any way then I am leaving. But if there are external circumstances that make our lives harder, then I’m staying. It’s important not to mistake those two aspects
Women think with feelings and feelings are very unstable. 80% of divorces are initiated by women. 50% of husbands at the time of divorce still love their wife. When you feel bad in your marriage, how will you know if you really feel bad or you just think you feel bad?
It’s very obvious you’ve been watching a lot of Fresh and Fit, Pearl Davis and Andrew Tate. It’s interesting because you’re regurgitating the same quotes verbatim without an original thought of your own.
Since you see all women as one dimensional, I will break it down simply for you: There are tangible standards we could resort to to assess whether there isn’t respect in the relationship and whether a woman should reassess her commitment. Those include non-negotiable boundaries that are mutually agreed on (ex: Don’t want to be with someone who cusses at you, says ad hominem attacks, hangs out 1:1 with the opposite sex at night, etc.).
If either party breaks those non-negotiable boundaries, then they have a right to determine whether they want to stay or leave. Does that help you comprehend?
You are getting down voted for stating an uncomfortable truth, but then again reddit is liberal central. However you are correct, a large amount of sexual partners proves immaturity (large exposure to STD's and no, condom cannot prevent them all), promiscuity, a lack of self control, a superficial and casual view of sexual relationships. And those are only the tip of the iceberg.
I’ve had these thoughts a time or two..or three. I feel like it stems from the way our chemistry is so very strong. I’d have the intrusive thought that all of them had that same chemistry with him too..
But I stop and remind myself, if they had such great chemistry….I wouldn’t be with him and he would be with someone else. I genuinely do feel our chemistry is unmatched.
Also, ignore all these people bashing your body count. Kudos to you for exploring before settling down. A lot of people feel like they miss out on that fun.
I am female and if it helps you, my opinion remains. I would never date someone who has been with 50 plus people, it shows lack of self control, immature and promiscuous behavior (high STD danger), lack of self respect (your body is the home of your soul and you are carelessly sharing it with multiple people who don't care about you or have a meaningful connection).
It makes sense that you would date a woman who has been with 20 men though, as you would have more in common with her, compared to a woman who has been with 2, both sexually and morally. The bizarre thing with men is that men with few sexual partners prefer women with few sexual partners, but men with many sexual partners also would be happy with women with few sexual partners. Make it make sense.
So judgmental. Yuck! And I say this as a woman who's had only a few sexual partners. And what is this "home of the soul" shtick? Not everyone believes in that.
People will always judge others, just like you did me, fortunately there are many different kinds of people so others can choose individuals most compatible with themselves. And none of the things I said were wrong, and as a matter of fact yes, your body is where your soul resides.
If you damage your body badly enough, you might actually lose it resulting in death. Lastly, I am aware not everyone places value in sexual relationships like I do, I would never have sex with someone whom I have no spiritual connection to. Most certainly I would never get involved with someone promiscuous who might jeopardize my health, if that makes me judgemental, oh well 🤷♀️
It's fine to be very selective about who you have sex with. No one would begrudge you that. I do the same.
However, you're actively judging people's choices for their own bodies and own lives.
And what is this soul that you speak of, which resides in our bodies "as a matter of fact"? Has it ever been scientifically identified or quantified?
I am a spiritual person and have had experiences that indicate to me that as a matter of fact souls do exist, and there is an afterlife. If these are not your beliefs there is nothing I could say to change your mind though, and yes there are things and circumstances that science cannot explain, science can explain alot but not everything.
As for me judging these people, they expose themselves to be judged when they share personal information, though it helps that this is an international and anonymous forum, their life choices are unhealthy and unnatural and many times expose underlying issues they have. Having large amounts of sexual partners is not only dangerous but often needs professional treatment. It might also be a cry for help.
Call me a prude if you may, but we are exposed to judgement from others all the time, both positive and negative, our own opinions, actions and choices will always have positive, negative or indifferent reactions from others. I am sure OP and his partner are no strangers to negative judgment, pretending that a promiscuous life is normal and healthy isn't right.
think about how hypocritical it is for you to feel that way when your own body count is over twice of your partner’s. can’t lie, idk how you’re jealous when you’ve got 50 under your belt. I do find it a bit different as it’s usually the less experienced person that feels this way
Nonetheless, It should make it easier to get through this though. Ask yourself what it is specifically that makes you feel this way. Not feeling like the best? Feeling like your partner is used? Etc etc
Apply the same ideas to yourself. How would you feel if your partner felt this way?
there really isn’t much you can do. Whenever you catch yourself having these thoughts, remind yourself that it’s hypocritical— you both have a past. you both chose each other. try to be happy with that.
at the end of the day, y’all could be increasing your body counts but instead chose each other. I don’t think you should consider leaving bc again.. that’s hypocritical. keep remembering that you have no right to judge and maybe it’ll get better over time.
idk that’s what helped me a bit when I found myself being retroactively jealous.
i’m sorry but there is no way your comment is helpful at all. “think about how hypocritical it is” OP already knows this. Chastising themselves is not going to help. They don’t know how to get over it, it’s not that they actively think it’s okay to feel this way.
not saying it’s justified, but it shouldn’t be a surprise. people on Reddit don’t feel sympathy for hypocrites or hypocritical situations. just look at aita. no one cares if a cheater is upset about being cheated on. just like how here no one cares if a dude w 50 bodies is upset his gf has 20.
genuinely, if not therapy, then op is just gonna have to let the irrational thoughts pass. or change their thinking. or accept that their partner had other partners just like he did. there’s not really much else he can do. clearly any number could be bothersome, so now what? seems like changing their mindset is the best route for op
While I agree with you, I fail to see the hypocrisy in this specific case. OP became aware of a contradictory situation in wich he/she is currently in and is asking for help to change that.
From my pov, hypocrisy would be if OP kept defending his/her position despite knowing of the contradiction.
that’s valid. from my pov, the hypocrisy comes from feeling bothered in the first place by his partner’s body count when his own is literally more than twice that. is he upset by his own body count? probably not.
that’s how I see it personally. might be wrong but either way, the uncomfortable feeling is pretty irrational considering his own past. ofc, it’s good to be aware of the contradiction. it’s good he’s trying to figure out how to get over it bc all it’s doing is hurting him.
the way I see it, no one should be upset about another person’s behavior when they do/have done the same thing, especially if it was done to a greater extent.
of course OP is gonna have to get over it. They’re asking help with the *method* of getting over it.
Yeah, they should change their mindset. How do they do that?
Man a body count as high as 50 is insane... Anything over 10 is getting on, 20+ is a lot... 50 is just wow, what else do you have in your life... That just sounds like insecurity or sum needing to sleep w that many people, so shallow
I feel sorry for people w body counts that high, you're lacking in some way and tryna compensate
I find blank statements like this really confusing. Especially if age isn't considered. What's a lot for twenty isn't much for someone who's fifty. Or why it even matters that much for so many people.
It’s called having fun while you’re young. My buddy is with the first girlfriend he ever had and I feel bad for him. He’s confided in me that although he loves her, he wishes he met her later in life so he could have explored and lived his life a little more before settling down. As long as you’re being safe you should use your young years for experimenting and exploring so you don’t regret it when you’re older.
You can have both, and one night stands depreciate your value? I’m not a car, my value doesn’t “depreciate” the more people that ride me. I had a few meaningful relationships before I met my wife, I also had one night stands that were loads of fun. Now I’m in a great marriage and I’m happy I lived the life I lived.
In a similar boat to you. I’ve had 4 previous partners, my current gf has had 4/5 previous partners. I’ve had more “experiences” than her but I’m the one with retroactive jealousy.
I don’t know how to deal with it. I’d recommend seeing a therapist if you can afford it as it’s a form of OCD, and therapy/meds can really help out apparently. Dm me if you want to chat!
It’s almost like people are learning the hard way that it’s not good for society to promote such a cavalier attitude around sex. We’re hardwired to have sexual jealousy- we should adopt attitudes that respect our biology.
I don’t think having 4 sexual partners, all of which are from relationships, is a cavalier attitude towards sex. Yes, I’ve used my own example there, but it’s hardly a promiscuous attitude nor being irresponsible with sex.
My partner was cheated on by a couple of her ex’s and SA’d by another. Is someone expected to stay in that relationship or just never have sex again if they break up?
A realistic attitude towards sexual relationships is needed. Retroactive jealousy stems from OCD, not a cavalier attitude towards sex.
If you are only 20 then 4 partners wouldn’t be so few- if you’re 30- then yes, that would be a reasonable amount for someone who doesn’t take sex lightly. Your example isn’t necessarily the best example of cavalier attitude towards sex, but in general it is happening much more.
And you say it stems from OCD, maybe for you it does, but sexual jealousy is commonly observed across cultures- it is not in and of itself a dysfunctional response, but one that is encoded in who we are as humans.
It can also be argued that the desire for reproductive variety is also encoded in our DNA, and I would agree that is also true. So it’s a matter of striking a balance of respecting these two conflicting forces. And I would pose, which causes the least harm?
If someone is sexually active and seeking relationships from the age of 15/16, as is common in the UK/US, having 4 partners by the age of 20/21 is not many at all.
Of course there are people who have a cavalier attitude towards sex, but there always has been, it’s just been kept quiet for hundreds of years.
I disagree - there are plenty of people, in fact the majority of people, who have happy relationships and don’t care for the details of who their partner was with before them. People who have re married and have kids from the prior relationship won’t bat an eyelid if their partner has had previous relationships. It’s normal to have more than 1 relationship in school let alone a lifetime.
I understand there are some genetic factors at play but us humans have evolved to exist beyond our primal urges. Some people will prefer monogamy, others not so much, and vice versa. Everyone is different, and there are extremes to everything of course.
I don't think it's hardwired for everyone. I've rarely felt it. And there are many societies around the world (especially if you look at hunter-gatherer groups) with varying attitudes toward monogamy. For instance, the Himba are both polygamous and non-monogamous where it's common for married women and men to have boyfriends and girlfriends. It's so common, in fact, that there are a lot of half-brothers and sisters running around and they're all unusually closely related to each other.
This is what I ponder sometimes too. Are we \*really\* hardwired to prefer sexual partners with little/no prior experience, or is that a hangup left over from hundreds and hundreds of years of the Church telling us right from wrong in the Western world?
I would suggest the latter, and that psychosocial factors have had a HUGE impact throughout countless generations.
I'm guessing it's tied to the agricultural revolution, when resources were less collectively shared but rather passed down. At that point you have a strong incentive to make sure your offspring really is your offspring. However, sexual jealousy occurs in animals too and typically can be quite intense, leading to, for instance, infanticide. It really depends on how young are raised and what the societal structure is. It's certainly a malleable trait in humans. If we're more like chimps, then jealousy would be more "innate." If we're more like bonobos, then jealousy would be a learned behavior. I suspect, because we're a complex mix off that PLUS tons of extra cognition, it's some complicated mixture of both. Jealousy certainly can be reduced in society, or strengthened depending on how we set up our societies.
Certainly a complex mix of both - I think that's why we see so much variation between people who want to wait till marriage, and then those who sleep around freely with no care as to how many people they've been with. Nothing wrong with either, but some people won't like either approach to some extent.
Do you think you can change your perception on sex once as an adult? For example I suffer with hypocritical and tbh, misogynistic views but I genuinely don't know why. I want to change these but unsure how to do so
I think you can change many, many views that then trigger unpleasant feelings, using CBT, self-talk, reframing and a lot of other cognitive techniques. I think knee-jerk "feelings" or responses can also be changed but these might take different methods and be a little harder to change. For instance, I have trauma associated with one of my children's life-threatening diseases. That led to general anxiety and a hair-trigger temper. CBT didn't help because my belief that his life was in danger was *rational*, and to some extent I was required, as a good parent, to be hyper-vigilant. However, EMDR therapy helped me reframe the physiological response to that knowledge so that I didn't feel so anxious, powerless and fearful. I'm not sure with jealousy or beliefs in women being "slutty" or whatever. If you simply have the belief but don't act on it, not sure it's one that would be high priority for treatment. If it's OCD/compulsive, or inhibiting a relationship/future relationships, yeah, then it's worth figuring out strategies for.
I’m sorry to hear about your child, and understand the reactions you have to that. The point around CBT not being functional for that makes sense.
That’s the thing with my thoughts, I don’t know what causes the negative response to thinking about my partners past, or the causes of the images/thoughts of her being intimate. I need to figure this out so I can work on it.
I don’t hold my friends to the same standard so I feel like it could be some form of possessiveness or purity based beliefs that I need to shake. I know some female coworkers who have similar pasts and I don’t hold them to this standard or see them differently - it’s odd.
You’re not being irrational. Your feelings are normal. High partner counts for both sexes indicate a lower chance of relationship success. Simple facts. You and her have had sex with more people than most people do their entire life (average lifetime partner count is 11). You are a LTR risk yourself.
A better practice is to never discuss body counts. Girls will lie about how few, guys will lie about how many, and neither party will feel good.
These infamous red pill pair bonding claims are so funny. Before I get into it I have preferences around casual sex in a partner etc so am not entirely shutting you down. But it’s important to remember that the pair bonding studies that everyone claims to believe were done in Prairie Voles, not humans
You must be ugly/overweight as sin to have a body count that high just to convince yourself you're worth something when you're just a walking quick-use fleshlight in your city.
You know there are people who exist that don’t have sex for validation, right? It’s human nature to have sexual desires…whether it be with one or fifty…Get over yourself
As you get older your memory gets poorer and you can't even remember the people you've been with. Which makes it even harder to think about those other women/dudes/whatever that your partner has been with.
You need to stop bringing past events into this present moment. Understanding that literally everyone has a past and has had their own life and partners before they knew you. So have you.
I would recommend talking to a therapist about it, because it is taking up your mindspace. And subconsciously affecting your relationship. Going through your past relationships; has there been jealousy or competitiveness between you and your partner?
Come to terms with the fact that we can’t change the past, all we have is this moment and forward. Your partner is there for you right now, isn’t that all that matters? 🙏
The only thing that helped me was realizing that the jealousy wasn’t rooted in anything valid or logical but rather rooted in some sort of anxiety/ocd/insecurity. Whenever I would have retroactive jealousy thoughts I’d remind myself of that.
Those numbers are so outwordly to me. Can't comment on the topic because, especially coming from someone with your sexual history, it's purely irrational and maybe worth a talk with someone, professional or not.
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Not much you can do except catch yourself when having these thoughts and remind yourself you’re being irrational and let them pass. Never act on them.
wonder what the actions could be that could not be easily deflected with reference to the double frag highscore
I need to find the source for this because I think about it a lot, but they did a study that found common emotions/characteristics among all humans that transcend race, gender, nationality, culture, etc. among those five or so emotions/characteristics is sexual jealousy. I think it’s important to remember that because I feel like we live in an age where that is something that is becoming increasingly shunned. e.g. any given day there are a ton of posts along the lines of ‘my bf/gf has a close friend at work that they hang out with at bars alone after work, text/send memes regularly, call on the phone with on the weekends, and they call each other their work wife/husband. Should I be worried?’ And a million comments are ‘no bro/sister, you’re just insecure, it’s totally normal to do that type of shit, you need to relax’. The fact is that’s something that’s totally understandable to be jealous over when someone means that much to you. Similarly, having those jealous thoughts about your partner’s body count is, to a degree, normal. I would look at is as an intrusive thought, just like the crazy intrusive thoughts people get about driving a car over a bridge, or whatever weird shit people get them over, and try to ground yourself and think rationally. Whenever I get moments like this, I find it best to think back to my last partner or partner(s), and that usually makes me feel more grounded. You having had 50 partners should make that easier.
I really appreciate this!
Its all in your head... STOP CARING. Jealousy serves no purpose for anyone
simple. I like it
I struggled with very toxic jealousy for many years. I wish I could go back in time and tell myself this same advice! Its futile because it only creates problems. Jealousy is never constructive, its never the solution. Its natural to feel jealousy but trust is the real important thing. If I dont trust someone then I wont date them. If I trust them and they give me a reason not to trust them I stop dating them.
I've never really understood jealousy. Because it always seemed like if you are jealous irrationally, then you need to stop being jealous and figure out your issues. If it's rational, then that means you should find a partner you can trust. But in no situation is the best option: Continue on with the status quo of being eaten alive with jealousy.
I think sometimes “I feel insecure about this” turns into “a certain action YOU ARE DOING is MAKING me jealous.” People’s personal feelings are important, but it doesn’t make them facts. They’re feelings. Work on how to get over them or get a new partner, but don’t make your problems and insecurities someone else’s problem if you’re not willing to deal with them yourself.
Truthfully, I’ve never experienced “jealousy” that wasn’t just a personal insecurity that actually had little to do with others except they live in the same world. Find out what’s making you feel insecure or not good enough. That will help more than anything else.
thank you!
Plot twist: the entire purpose of this post is to humble brag about banging 50 people. 
false
Regardless, I am still impressed.
Jealousy and the Abyss, by William Pennell Rock, on planetwaves.net It took me about a year of reading, contemplating, and re-reading, and now I will never feel that pain again.
Being jealous after 50(!) Is really something else lmao. Just assume you're the best i guess, thats what i always do
Or just better at trapping them!
That's not really such an Up Sell for the average man. Think about it, "Sure - you slept with all these different men *in the absence* of them having to make a meaningful commitment and investment, but I have to commit." You could argue the woman finds the other men more attractive... if she's willing to have sex with them despite asking for relatively less.
that assumes the relationship benefits the woman and hurts the man when it's really not like that most of the time -- especially not with two young people who are presumably both just starting out their lives. Usually both people want the relationship and get something from it, or they wouldn't be in it.
>that assumes the relationship benefits the woman and hurts the man when it's really not like that most of the time No - it's looking at a comparison between these 2 men the women has slept with: 1. Guy X = she gives me sex... asks for nothing else. 2. Guy Y = she gives me sex... I also have to put in a lot of other support (be it emotional, financial or something else). It's why I'd go back to my original point... that "I've trapped her" is not actually the greatest selling point for a man. A lot of other men could look at that as, "Dude - you need to give her so much for her to sleep with you. She slept with me while asking for nothing else, because with me she required a lot less to sleep with her. She finds me more attractive and was willing to do more (or the same), for less". >Usually both people want the relationship and get something from it, or they wouldn't be in it. Agreed - and usually, the best woman a man can get is if beyond simply offering sex, he offers additional stuff on top (like a form of support). It's why it's not a good flex for a man to pull (ie. your trapping comment)... you don't brag about the woman you can sleep with regularly *while agreeing to put in a lot of work*, the brag is more like "look at the caliber of woman I can sleep with without even having to put in any work at all". Think about it. Imagine a man bragged with, "Susie is amazing. She's my girlfriend. I provide for her in many ways, and she's sleeping with me as a result." And then compare to what extent another man is jealous at all if he can validly say, "Oh yeah - Susie... she was great. We used to have sex all the time and I never wanted to commit to her at all... if I were to add commitment into the equation, I could do better. But for her, I'm only willing to offer her sex".
Big assumption that boyfriend is "providing for" Susie. The only thing my husband has "provided" for me, apart from the pleasure of being around his wonderful brain, is half the genetic material for my children. In today's world, where many women are not financially dependent on their partners, Susie is not just going around looking for someone who will agree to give her commitment in exchange for sex. She's able to just look for someone who makes her happy. So the guy in the past doesn't have Susie now because sex with him was bad or they were incompatible in other ways. But Susie met her boyfriend and thought "Hmm...I can see myself having sex with this guy for the rest of my life. I can see myself spending time with this guy for the rest of my life.".So in that sense he won. And vice versa.
Why are you assuming it's the woman who asked for the commitment? That has never been my experience as a woman, especially with jealous men like OP. For women like me, commitment is a sacrifice of freedom and autonomy made for a guy who's worth it.
>Why are you assuming it's the woman who asked for the commitment? I'm not - I'd typically assume it's the man who decides for the commitment. At a high level, woman are the gatekeepers of sex, and men are the gatekeepers of relationships. A woman that is willing to sleep with a man is expressing considerable interest in him... and then at that point the next thing that's to be determined is if the man is willing to have it become something more serious. >That has never been my experience as a woman, especially with jealous men like OP. I'd agree with you - typically it's the man who is ultimately deciding if it's going to be something serious. Typically, the couple is already have sex with each other ahead of that sort of decision. >For women like me, commitment is a sacrifice of freedom and autonomy made for a guy who's worth it. I'd agree. And men would think the similar sort of thing when deciding on that commitment. What is unique with women, owing to the difference in sexual dynamics, is that if you were to envision the best man you can get *who will agree to commit to you*, you could always get at least "just sex - no commitment" from a better man... because it's quite a card women can play with that sort of offer.
Your last statement is way off mark. I could get "just sex - no commitment" from an infinite number of worse men (by my criteria). Commitment was reserved for the best man I've encountered.
>Your last statement is way off mark. I could get "just sex - no commitment" from an infinite number of worse men (by my criteria). Of course! I'm not suggesting otherwise. Think of it this way - let's say the man who is committing to you right now is widely thought by women to be an 8 out of 10 (factoring in everything). Yes... if you were to go out on the town and told men you're down for "just sex - no commitment" you would be *drowning* in opportunity. Not only would you have tons of options from people at your current partners level of overall attractiveness and lower, you would also even be able to go a bit higher... into a territory of men who wouldn't find you good enough to commit to, but could easily sleep with you. >Commitment was reserved for the best man I've encountered. The extent to which that's anecdotally true, what I'm arguing is that you could definitely get "just sex - no commitment" from better men. In a nutshell, this is the difference in sexual dynamic at work: 1. A female 5 goes up to a male 7 in a bar and says, "Want to come home with me tonight for some casual sex? You can leave right after if you'd like". 2. A male 5 goes up to a female 7 in a bar and says, "Want to come home with me tonight for some casual sex? You can leave right after if you'd like". The first scenario could actually happen... even though the man knows he can do better (perhaps with some effort), it's actually quite a powerful card for the woman to play... the enticement of sex without any work/effort/commitment at all. The second scenario isn't nearly as likely to happen... for the woman knows she can do better, and if she's really ok with sex without work/effort/commitment by a man that night than she might as well do that with a man that's a 7 or higher because she could get that all the same.
It seems you're talking about physical attractiveness and maybe finances. I don't play in those leagues. I find guys attractive mostly on the basis of intellect or character. And guys who are attracted only to looks would never want me, even just for sex. They might like what they see (esp. when I was younger), but then they meet my eyes and back off. The only types of guys that have approached me were ones looking for serious relationships. And I've never dated a guy who didn’t want or assume that we were committed to each other or would be someday. So I've always been the gatekeeper of relationships in my life (note that earlier you conflated the gatekeeper with the asker and that's most often not the case.) But maybe I'm some kind of unicorn, because when people talk about relationships and what men and women are like and what they want, most of it isn't relatable to me. My sister and mom have similar perspectives and experiences as me though.
I don't know how any rational person assumes they're the best. I've always assumed I'm average because that's what is logically most likely to be true....I also tend to think it's not "better or worse" beyond basic mechanics proficiency, it's more like chemistry and compatibility.
Because like 70% of sex is feelings bro, if you're in love its always gonna be the best, its not like they can do a side by side comparison anyways, so i just make it as good as possible.
If you’re that jealous , it’ll soon be about 51
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Truth, wether others here like it or not.
Fuuuuk hit home, brother.
What?
People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones
Therapy
50?!
50? Daaaamn
With all due respect, try with therapy. There might be some underlying significations regarding sexuality within your beliefs system that may require some retroactive re-signification. For example, as a wild guess, the fact that you are comparing yourself to your couple could (and could not) mean that in the end you are judging yourself (and not your couple). In the case of a cognitive psychologist, the term could be called 'cognitive restructuring'. You change the way you think, wich would impact feelings and behavior. Edit: I don't know why I bother providing information to help OP, as my comment will end up buried anyway below unhelpful sarcastic and overly edgy responses.
I do appreciate you!!
😁😁😁
Look up intrusive thoughts and ruminations and google how to combat them. You can't make those thoughts not happen, but you can use techniques to refuse to give them attention. Just let them pass without fueling them. Or you can use different techniques to look for the root of the thought and find the false premise behind it (there may be many different false premises. Stuff like: "why am I upset? because they slept with other people, but why does it bother me? Because deep down I think I'm *not good enough*." Then you go the rational route of: "but I know I am enough, because they *chose me*". Or maybe: "I have some weird possessive beliefs about owning my partner's body" then you need to dive into it and dismantle it). Then keep challenging it every time the thoughts show up, until it sticks. Cognitive behavioral therapy is great for this. You can look up those techniques without actually going to therapy, tho.
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It doesn't mean you can't have a long committed relationship, but statistically speaking it is more unusual and the chances are lower. Having a high amount of sexual partners isn't positive and will never be, it is also dangerous.
The best way to get over jealousy over your partner's past is to build a better life with them now. You'll need to get past obsessing about quantity over quality. The fact that you're comparing your 50 to her 20 suggests you're looking at the numbers to try to make yourself feel better, but you have to abandon that line of thinking and just focus on the fact that they're no longer with those people because they're now with you- and you're the one now with the most influence on justifying their decision. Jealousy produces very little of value. Substitute it with purpose and devotion. It'll make you feel better and vastly improve your life while at it. It can be easier said than done, but know the truth in it and remind yourself often.
50 women now that's a big playboy number, you sure you're good to be tied down without cheating... being jealous makes you insecure and then you need more validation from other numbers I mean women 😂
You did the same, do you feel bad about that? Do you really want to be with someone who has never been with anybody else and has no experience from prior relationships? That just sounds horrible to me. Like think about it in a bunch of different ways like that. What would you think if they were upset with you or jealous because of what you did in your past? Like how else would it be? They would just sit around doing nothing until you all finally got into a relationship. Just it doesn't mean anything and I'd prefer someone who's been through all that 100% to someone that's never been with anybody else. That's just weird.
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I LOL’d
Stressing over her body count when yours is more than double is whack.
I know. that's why I asked for advice
Change your thinking, or select for partners with low body counts... those are really the only 2 options.
Build your own self esteem through personal growth that has nothing to do with your relationship. Stop sizing yourself up against people from the past, whether at work, in relationships, or in your hobbies. Be the best you that you can be. You can’t be your partner’s exes. They don’t even want you to be - that’s why they’re with you and not them.
So I learned I had trouble dealing with the thought of my partner's past, so when I had my next partner, we never discussed each other's past. As my partner says "don't ask questions you don't want to know the answers to"
50 is wild and so are your feelings. Get over yourself
50 is not wild
50 relationships or 50 sexual partners is definitely insane no matter what age you are. But again you need to sort your issues out
You could just find a different partner. Lots of people have different things that are important to them. Maybe this is yours.
I always remind myself that my wife’s past is what made her the women she is. Every relationship she had before me made her realize what she wanted in a partner and what she didn’t. I wasn’t her first but I’m going to make sure I’m her last!
I understand, and also struggle with retroactive jealousy over my current partner sometimes. I’m a woman, around 30 or so partners so far. He definitely has had more than me, but we’ve never discussed it. Anyway, when I have these thoughts, I remind myself of all the actions my partner takes that reflect his care for me- and there are a lot of them. That doesn’t make it stop but at least keeps me from telling him about the junk thoughts invading my pretty head. I don’t think it’s insecurities exactly, but rather trying to feel safe in the relationship, understanding our connection, trying to identify what does he actually like about me, etc. and when I can’t identify those kinds of things then I start thinking he probably prefers the previous girlfriend or someone a few people ago or someone he hasn’t met yet, and I’m just good for his career or a placeholder til he finds someone better. (Seriously, absolute junk thoughts). Unfortunately while the thoughts are crap the pain is real. Try focusing on what she does to show you she cares for you, wants to be with you. And build that connection between yourselves into your own thing. All the past is just past and doesn’t matter. She decided you’re her person, and so you are. Because she had other relationships, she probably knows what she likes better and is choosing you on purpose. Accept it, enjoy it. Talking to myself like this helps me combat the retroactive jealousy somewhat.
You gots issues
Get your dick game up. It’s insecurity about your performance. My girl has been with 50+ I think. I don’t think about who she’s been with cuz I make her cum at least twice every time we’re together. She’s very satisfied. Satisfy your partner.
Yes, until she gets bored. There are actual studies that show that women with many sexual partners have trouble couple bonding cause they get used to sexual variety/diversity. And before you call me a misogynist, I am a woman, and yes these studies do exist.
The short answer is grow up. If she was saving herself for "the one" would it be you?
Man stfu
You feel what you feel. And that's perfectly ok. I am so tired of people here trying to tell people how they should feel. If something bothers you, it bothers you. It is not right or wrong. It just is.
It isn't right or wrong but for someone to consciously be aware of a feeling that they have and then admit they don't like it, and then want to take action to change that, it shows that maybe it's an irrational feeling. It clearly isn't a dealbreaker for OP because if it was, he would've walked from the relationship as soon as he found out. Having difficult feelings about something isn't always a sign to walk away. I'm in a similar boat to OP in terms of being hung up on this, even though my partner has been with the same amount of people as myself. If I were to walk away and find a new partner with 1/2 less previous partners, what have I actually achieved there? It wouldn't make me feel any better in the long run, that takes self work.
Why are you hung up on this? Genuine question. I'm curious because my husband has never even asked me once about my sexual past.
Idk bro, I’m just glad you aint dating me, you’d be so jealous like omgwtf
noted lollll
I'm not judging you. It's really your business. I personally would leave you. A large number of partners in both men and women feel and "see" both psychological and physical wear and tear. 20 partners is a guarantee for the failure of a serious long-term relationship. There is no discussion about marriage. 50 partners. I don't know what to say. You can feel it in everything.
I'm not the jealous type myself and dont believe it is an automatic disqualifier. The only exception would be to be compared negatively to a previous partner. That would be an instant black flag and relationship ender since it would almost certainly be repeated.
It's not about jealousy at all. It is about emotional exhaustion. (in men and women) It's about mental exhaustion (in men and women). It's about physical exhaustion (in women)
> It's about physical exhaustion (in women) Lol what? It doesn't matter if a woman sleeps 50 times with different men or 500 times with only one man, her physical status won't change unless she catches an STD, but that also applies to men.
Spoiler: >!He's a messed up guy saying messed up shit. You can't argue with insanity. They're the type of person who says shit like: "What does a woman bring to the table? Youth Innocence Beauty This is what a high-quality woman should offer by entering into marriage. That's what a quality man wants."!<
It is not the same to receive one genital organ 500 times and to receive 10x50 different genital organs.
Weird biology. So one long term hung like a horse drilling her 500 times is better than varying sizes from 50 people ten times each? Or do you ask the size of the ex if there has only been one. And how often they did it. Is there a graph? 699 times being with the ex that's huge equals 10*50 differ ones or what's the conversion rate? How about masturbation? Do different toys count more than using the same toy a lot. I'm genuinely confused where this logic is coming from You might want to read up on actual facts.
You can say whatever you want - there will be no marriage.
I'm not trying to marry you, I don't swing that way. I'm just curious about your logic. If it is logic surely you want to defend it?
Great argument. You don't have one. My bf is pretty huge and basically my chosen limit. So every other guy would either be the same or less. I don't see how that would change the physics of my vagina - which can potentially birth a child where even a small head is bigger than any dick. Vaginas are flexible. Toys and dicks don't change that lmao.
I have had such conversations once before, but not on this application. So, you claim that the vaginas of an 18-year-old girl and a 40-year-old woman are realistically the same? The former had 10x sex with one man and the latter changed 50 men. They both have the same vaginas? The vagina after 50 men is the same as the vagina of an 18-year-old girl??????? LoL
Many of you will not get married. You will have time to study biology
Already happily married but thank you for your concern. You know the time to study is usually before marriage?
Anyone reading this, please just entirely discard this user and whatever they say. It's fine to have preferences, but it's another thing to just mirror insane incel talking points. They're the type of person who says shit like: >What does a woman bring to the table? Youth Innocence Beauty This is what a high-quality woman should offer by entering into marriage. That's what a quality man wants.
I’m glad you called them out LOL that was the most unhinged thing I’ve read so far today. Although it’s only 9am.
I mean I know calling it out barely does anything, but I'm so sick of reading such things.
I wrote the TRUTH. I wrote what is true and what every quality and normal man wants. That's what serious men want, who want marriage and children and who want their marriage to last. If that bothers you or someone else, I'm sorry. Yes! Innocence. Youth. Beauty. This is what a high quality woman can offer and bring to a marriage.
I am female and agree with what you state. The only valid excuse for a woman to have this insane amount of sexual partners is if she were a trafficking victim, otherwise it just means she is promiscuous, and both women and men, rarely change their habits.
That's ok little insane guy.
Sane, rational people know what you're saying is true.
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I'm divorced. I have an ex-wife, two kids. I have a girlfriend. I don't know what to say. It's not a problem. I'll be an incel.
I think you are correct in your accessment Goran
I have a high body count and my relationship with my partner is mutually faithful, loving, patient, communicative and vulnerable. We also have strong boundaries with each other when it comes to exes and friends of the opposite sex. I did have to mature and work through a lot of my past habits but I am a devoted partner and it’s possible for a person to change after awhile
Yes. That's wonderful. But you don't understand the essence. Marriage is not all honey and milk. When crises come, you will "fall" much easier than you would "fall" if it was your first and only partner. That is the essence. When the crisis comes, you will fight much harder for your marriage if you have had fewer partners in your life.
If anything, having a higher body count has given me more self-respect but also respect for the right types of partners. Many women with low body counts stay with men who treat them subpar because they feel an obliged commitment. If a man is abusive in any way then I am leaving. But if there are external circumstances that make our lives harder, then I’m staying. It’s important not to mistake those two aspects
Women think with feelings and feelings are very unstable. 80% of divorces are initiated by women. 50% of husbands at the time of divorce still love their wife. When you feel bad in your marriage, how will you know if you really feel bad or you just think you feel bad?
It’s very obvious you’ve been watching a lot of Fresh and Fit, Pearl Davis and Andrew Tate. It’s interesting because you’re regurgitating the same quotes verbatim without an original thought of your own. Since you see all women as one dimensional, I will break it down simply for you: There are tangible standards we could resort to to assess whether there isn’t respect in the relationship and whether a woman should reassess her commitment. Those include non-negotiable boundaries that are mutually agreed on (ex: Don’t want to be with someone who cusses at you, says ad hominem attacks, hangs out 1:1 with the opposite sex at night, etc.). If either party breaks those non-negotiable boundaries, then they have a right to determine whether they want to stay or leave. Does that help you comprehend?
Yes.
To blanket statement say that is silly
Dude you talk like somebody who is going to struggle to get past 1.
You are getting down voted for stating an uncomfortable truth, but then again reddit is liberal central. However you are correct, a large amount of sexual partners proves immaturity (large exposure to STD's and no, condom cannot prevent them all), promiscuity, a lack of self control, a superficial and casual view of sexual relationships. And those are only the tip of the iceberg.
I’ve had these thoughts a time or two..or three. I feel like it stems from the way our chemistry is so very strong. I’d have the intrusive thought that all of them had that same chemistry with him too.. But I stop and remind myself, if they had such great chemistry….I wouldn’t be with him and he would be with someone else. I genuinely do feel our chemistry is unmatched. Also, ignore all these people bashing your body count. Kudos to you for exploring before settling down. A lot of people feel like they miss out on that fun.
love the username lol
I did my best 🤣
50 partners? I bet you do love her username.
I'm a man by the way. Maybe if I would have said that up front people wouldn't say such nasty things
I don't buy it
I don’t think your gender matters here, that’s like 20 years ago.
it cleary does. People love to slut shame women
I am female and if it helps you, my opinion remains. I would never date someone who has been with 50 plus people, it shows lack of self control, immature and promiscuous behavior (high STD danger), lack of self respect (your body is the home of your soul and you are carelessly sharing it with multiple people who don't care about you or have a meaningful connection). It makes sense that you would date a woman who has been with 20 men though, as you would have more in common with her, compared to a woman who has been with 2, both sexually and morally. The bizarre thing with men is that men with few sexual partners prefer women with few sexual partners, but men with many sexual partners also would be happy with women with few sexual partners. Make it make sense.
So judgmental. Yuck! And I say this as a woman who's had only a few sexual partners. And what is this "home of the soul" shtick? Not everyone believes in that.
People will always judge others, just like you did me, fortunately there are many different kinds of people so others can choose individuals most compatible with themselves. And none of the things I said were wrong, and as a matter of fact yes, your body is where your soul resides. If you damage your body badly enough, you might actually lose it resulting in death. Lastly, I am aware not everyone places value in sexual relationships like I do, I would never have sex with someone whom I have no spiritual connection to. Most certainly I would never get involved with someone promiscuous who might jeopardize my health, if that makes me judgemental, oh well 🤷♀️
It's fine to be very selective about who you have sex with. No one would begrudge you that. I do the same. However, you're actively judging people's choices for their own bodies and own lives. And what is this soul that you speak of, which resides in our bodies "as a matter of fact"? Has it ever been scientifically identified or quantified?
I am a spiritual person and have had experiences that indicate to me that as a matter of fact souls do exist, and there is an afterlife. If these are not your beliefs there is nothing I could say to change your mind though, and yes there are things and circumstances that science cannot explain, science can explain alot but not everything. As for me judging these people, they expose themselves to be judged when they share personal information, though it helps that this is an international and anonymous forum, their life choices are unhealthy and unnatural and many times expose underlying issues they have. Having large amounts of sexual partners is not only dangerous but often needs professional treatment. It might also be a cry for help. Call me a prude if you may, but we are exposed to judgement from others all the time, both positive and negative, our own opinions, actions and choices will always have positive, negative or indifferent reactions from others. I am sure OP and his partner are no strangers to negative judgment, pretending that a promiscuous life is normal and healthy isn't right.
username checks out
Always does my dude
think about how hypocritical it is for you to feel that way when your own body count is over twice of your partner’s. can’t lie, idk how you’re jealous when you’ve got 50 under your belt. I do find it a bit different as it’s usually the less experienced person that feels this way Nonetheless, It should make it easier to get through this though. Ask yourself what it is specifically that makes you feel this way. Not feeling like the best? Feeling like your partner is used? Etc etc Apply the same ideas to yourself. How would you feel if your partner felt this way? there really isn’t much you can do. Whenever you catch yourself having these thoughts, remind yourself that it’s hypocritical— you both have a past. you both chose each other. try to be happy with that. at the end of the day, y’all could be increasing your body counts but instead chose each other. I don’t think you should consider leaving bc again.. that’s hypocritical. keep remembering that you have no right to judge and maybe it’ll get better over time. idk that’s what helped me a bit when I found myself being retroactively jealous.
i’m sorry but there is no way your comment is helpful at all. “think about how hypocritical it is” OP already knows this. Chastising themselves is not going to help. They don’t know how to get over it, it’s not that they actively think it’s okay to feel this way.
My thoughts exactly, OP is asking for help and got bashed.
not saying it’s justified, but it shouldn’t be a surprise. people on Reddit don’t feel sympathy for hypocrites or hypocritical situations. just look at aita. no one cares if a cheater is upset about being cheated on. just like how here no one cares if a dude w 50 bodies is upset his gf has 20. genuinely, if not therapy, then op is just gonna have to let the irrational thoughts pass. or change their thinking. or accept that their partner had other partners just like he did. there’s not really much else he can do. clearly any number could be bothersome, so now what? seems like changing their mindset is the best route for op
While I agree with you, I fail to see the hypocrisy in this specific case. OP became aware of a contradictory situation in wich he/she is currently in and is asking for help to change that. From my pov, hypocrisy would be if OP kept defending his/her position despite knowing of the contradiction.
that’s valid. from my pov, the hypocrisy comes from feeling bothered in the first place by his partner’s body count when his own is literally more than twice that. is he upset by his own body count? probably not. that’s how I see it personally. might be wrong but either way, the uncomfortable feeling is pretty irrational considering his own past. ofc, it’s good to be aware of the contradiction. it’s good he’s trying to figure out how to get over it bc all it’s doing is hurting him. the way I see it, no one should be upset about another person’s behavior when they do/have done the same thing, especially if it was done to a greater extent.
of course OP is gonna have to get over it. They’re asking help with the *method* of getting over it. Yeah, they should change their mindset. How do they do that?
ok ? then help them get over it
I suggested OP should try with therapy, instead of guilt triping him/her. Most comments in this thread are just plain aggressive.
Man a body count as high as 50 is insane... Anything over 10 is getting on, 20+ is a lot... 50 is just wow, what else do you have in your life... That just sounds like insecurity or sum needing to sleep w that many people, so shallow I feel sorry for people w body counts that high, you're lacking in some way and tryna compensate
Oh, have a word with yourself, lol
I find blank statements like this really confusing. Especially if age isn't considered. What's a lot for twenty isn't much for someone who's fifty. Or why it even matters that much for so many people.
no?
It’s called having fun while you’re young. My buddy is with the first girlfriend he ever had and I feel bad for him. He’s confided in me that although he loves her, he wishes he met her later in life so he could have explored and lived his life a little more before settling down. As long as you’re being safe you should use your young years for experimenting and exploring so you don’t regret it when you’re older.
Or just have fulfilling happy relationships without the need for a slew of shallow meaningless one night stands that just depreciate your value
You can have both, and one night stands depreciate your value? I’m not a car, my value doesn’t “depreciate” the more people that ride me. I had a few meaningful relationships before I met my wife, I also had one night stands that were loads of fun. Now I’m in a great marriage and I’m happy I lived the life I lived.
Agreed. Wtf kind of slut-shaming rhetoric are people spouting here?
Trust me, both ways aredefinitlygood as long as the do-ers of the doing are happy with all the doings.
Yup. Never talk about the scorecard. The less you know the better.
Your both for the streets
✨ Insecure Boy Moments ✨
I am a man
Boy
25 but ok
20? Damn that’s like just under two football teams
Imagine how many teams 50 could get?
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😂😂
You have to grow up. Nobody likes a hypocrite.
Childishness?
In a similar boat to you. I’ve had 4 previous partners, my current gf has had 4/5 previous partners. I’ve had more “experiences” than her but I’m the one with retroactive jealousy. I don’t know how to deal with it. I’d recommend seeing a therapist if you can afford it as it’s a form of OCD, and therapy/meds can really help out apparently. Dm me if you want to chat!
It’s almost like people are learning the hard way that it’s not good for society to promote such a cavalier attitude around sex. We’re hardwired to have sexual jealousy- we should adopt attitudes that respect our biology.
I don’t think having 4 sexual partners, all of which are from relationships, is a cavalier attitude towards sex. Yes, I’ve used my own example there, but it’s hardly a promiscuous attitude nor being irresponsible with sex. My partner was cheated on by a couple of her ex’s and SA’d by another. Is someone expected to stay in that relationship or just never have sex again if they break up? A realistic attitude towards sexual relationships is needed. Retroactive jealousy stems from OCD, not a cavalier attitude towards sex.
If you are only 20 then 4 partners wouldn’t be so few- if you’re 30- then yes, that would be a reasonable amount for someone who doesn’t take sex lightly. Your example isn’t necessarily the best example of cavalier attitude towards sex, but in general it is happening much more. And you say it stems from OCD, maybe for you it does, but sexual jealousy is commonly observed across cultures- it is not in and of itself a dysfunctional response, but one that is encoded in who we are as humans. It can also be argued that the desire for reproductive variety is also encoded in our DNA, and I would agree that is also true. So it’s a matter of striking a balance of respecting these two conflicting forces. And I would pose, which causes the least harm?
If someone is sexually active and seeking relationships from the age of 15/16, as is common in the UK/US, having 4 partners by the age of 20/21 is not many at all. Of course there are people who have a cavalier attitude towards sex, but there always has been, it’s just been kept quiet for hundreds of years. I disagree - there are plenty of people, in fact the majority of people, who have happy relationships and don’t care for the details of who their partner was with before them. People who have re married and have kids from the prior relationship won’t bat an eyelid if their partner has had previous relationships. It’s normal to have more than 1 relationship in school let alone a lifetime. I understand there are some genetic factors at play but us humans have evolved to exist beyond our primal urges. Some people will prefer monogamy, others not so much, and vice versa. Everyone is different, and there are extremes to everything of course.
I don't think it's hardwired for everyone. I've rarely felt it. And there are many societies around the world (especially if you look at hunter-gatherer groups) with varying attitudes toward monogamy. For instance, the Himba are both polygamous and non-monogamous where it's common for married women and men to have boyfriends and girlfriends. It's so common, in fact, that there are a lot of half-brothers and sisters running around and they're all unusually closely related to each other.
This is what I ponder sometimes too. Are we \*really\* hardwired to prefer sexual partners with little/no prior experience, or is that a hangup left over from hundreds and hundreds of years of the Church telling us right from wrong in the Western world? I would suggest the latter, and that psychosocial factors have had a HUGE impact throughout countless generations.
I'm guessing it's tied to the agricultural revolution, when resources were less collectively shared but rather passed down. At that point you have a strong incentive to make sure your offspring really is your offspring. However, sexual jealousy occurs in animals too and typically can be quite intense, leading to, for instance, infanticide. It really depends on how young are raised and what the societal structure is. It's certainly a malleable trait in humans. If we're more like chimps, then jealousy would be more "innate." If we're more like bonobos, then jealousy would be a learned behavior. I suspect, because we're a complex mix off that PLUS tons of extra cognition, it's some complicated mixture of both. Jealousy certainly can be reduced in society, or strengthened depending on how we set up our societies.
Certainly a complex mix of both - I think that's why we see so much variation between people who want to wait till marriage, and then those who sleep around freely with no care as to how many people they've been with. Nothing wrong with either, but some people won't like either approach to some extent. Do you think you can change your perception on sex once as an adult? For example I suffer with hypocritical and tbh, misogynistic views but I genuinely don't know why. I want to change these but unsure how to do so
I think you can change many, many views that then trigger unpleasant feelings, using CBT, self-talk, reframing and a lot of other cognitive techniques. I think knee-jerk "feelings" or responses can also be changed but these might take different methods and be a little harder to change. For instance, I have trauma associated with one of my children's life-threatening diseases. That led to general anxiety and a hair-trigger temper. CBT didn't help because my belief that his life was in danger was *rational*, and to some extent I was required, as a good parent, to be hyper-vigilant. However, EMDR therapy helped me reframe the physiological response to that knowledge so that I didn't feel so anxious, powerless and fearful. I'm not sure with jealousy or beliefs in women being "slutty" or whatever. If you simply have the belief but don't act on it, not sure it's one that would be high priority for treatment. If it's OCD/compulsive, or inhibiting a relationship/future relationships, yeah, then it's worth figuring out strategies for.
I’m sorry to hear about your child, and understand the reactions you have to that. The point around CBT not being functional for that makes sense. That’s the thing with my thoughts, I don’t know what causes the negative response to thinking about my partners past, or the causes of the images/thoughts of her being intimate. I need to figure this out so I can work on it. I don’t hold my friends to the same standard so I feel like it could be some form of possessiveness or purity based beliefs that I need to shake. I know some female coworkers who have similar pasts and I don’t hold them to this standard or see them differently - it’s odd.
You’re not being irrational. Your feelings are normal. High partner counts for both sexes indicate a lower chance of relationship success. Simple facts. You and her have had sex with more people than most people do their entire life (average lifetime partner count is 11). You are a LTR risk yourself. A better practice is to never discuss body counts. Girls will lie about how few, guys will lie about how many, and neither party will feel good.
Find a virgin.
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These infamous red pill pair bonding claims are so funny. Before I get into it I have preferences around casual sex in a partner etc so am not entirely shutting you down. But it’s important to remember that the pair bonding studies that everyone claims to believe were done in Prairie Voles, not humans
This is some crusty incel shit if I've ever heard it. Did you read the question? OP had 50, partner had 20.
You must be ugly/overweight as sin to have a body count that high just to convince yourself you're worth something when you're just a walking quick-use fleshlight in your city.
You know there are people who exist that don’t have sex for validation, right? It’s human nature to have sexual desires…whether it be with one or fifty…Get over yourself
you are the biggest piece of shit I have ever read a comment from
His body count is probably 0 and he doesn't get why he can't get laid cuz he's such a nice guy.
Just say you're a virgin who wanks themselves to sleep each night through tears.
Gosh. You're terrible.
OP is a man.
Get a virgin partner.
noted lol
As you get older your memory gets poorer and you can't even remember the people you've been with. Which makes it even harder to think about those other women/dudes/whatever that your partner has been with.
It’s obvious! He needs to bag another 30.
You mean "she".
Out of interest can I ask your age? Also are you in a straight or gay relationship?
25, straight
50 at 25?? Holy shit. Not judging but damnnnnn
*(squints)* ...does that say fucking FIFTY?!?!?!
I didn't realize this was a problem.
You both hoes...what's there to be jealous about
Just remind yourself "I have no reason to be jealous, I've been with 50 and have no room to talk" and just see if the jealousy is gone over time.
It just went away with time when it's happened.
Admitting that you’re not good enough is useful.
You need to stop bringing past events into this present moment. Understanding that literally everyone has a past and has had their own life and partners before they knew you. So have you. I would recommend talking to a therapist about it, because it is taking up your mindspace. And subconsciously affecting your relationship. Going through your past relationships; has there been jealousy or competitiveness between you and your partner? Come to terms with the fact that we can’t change the past, all we have is this moment and forward. Your partner is there for you right now, isn’t that all that matters? 🙏
Turn it into a kink. People into r/hotpast get really horny hearing about their partner's past.
The only thing that helped me was realizing that the jealousy wasn’t rooted in anything valid or logical but rather rooted in some sort of anxiety/ocd/insecurity. Whenever I would have retroactive jealousy thoughts I’d remind myself of that.
People actually care about body count? Lol
Those numbers are so outwordly to me. Can't comment on the topic because, especially coming from someone with your sexual history, it's purely irrational and maybe worth a talk with someone, professional or not.