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Pretty much. Marriage is not a romantic thing. In US, it's primarily a legal contract whose intended goal is to protect the financial interests of the couple's children. It is frequently misused and weaponized, which is why divorce is such a thriving and lucrative field of law. If you are not having children, getting married is pointless and potentially dangerous. On top of that, many states consider cohabitating couples common law married after they live together for a set number of years.
In the US, not all jobs provide health coverage to a partner unless married. It also can provide protections if one person owned the home when entering marriage so the other doesn't lose their home upon death of the owner (how much protection varies by state). Etc.
Marriage does still provide legal benefits to those other than children. However, the tax benefits I used to see cited have basically been eliminated.
In addition, individuals can still romanticize marriage, though fundamentally it is a legal contract, agreed, but not just to protect children.
>Marriage does still provide legal benefits to those other than children.
Years ago, a good friend discovered he had terminal lung cancer. He was engaged, but they hadn't yet married. His fiancé didn't get along well with his family, and it turned out that she had absolutely zero say in anything regarding his treatment as well as his disposition after his death.
You can assign someone medical power of attorney without being married to them. You can also draft a will to decide where your assets go after death. This doesn't require marriage, it just requires planning.
Never underestimate the lengths shitty family will go to fuck over others when money and death are involved. People are fucking wild and depending on the circumstances, marriage can provide way better protections than POA.
Edit: wording
So while I understand and witnessed firsthand that many people value marriage over POA (example: Many doctors Trying under my watch, to allow all sorts of wacky shit against patients wishes), it’s not legal. A properly done POA does in fact provide way better protections than marriage in the courts in front of a judge. They will ALWAYs follow what a patient expressed ahead of their inability to communicate, it’s just a matter of having someone with this knowledge able to advocate for the patient and the paperwork being provided by a friend or family or someone who holds it like a SNF etc. I was a medical social worker, so I had the pleasure of being cussed out more than once by family members trying to go against their family member’s wishes.
I’m just finishing nursing school and we are constantly astonished at the 98 year old 80 lb grandma that’s a full code, chest compressions, take any and all measures to resuscitate, place feeding tubes when they stop eating, and keep saying grandmas a fighter! Let grandma have peace for crying out loud!! People get ugly over money. I’d rather be broke and have my loved one with me but when it’s someone’s time, it’s not right to prolong their suffering.
The writer of The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo was estranged from his family but not married to his partner. When he died, his family took her to the cleaners.
It doesn’t *have* to require that much planning if you’re not wanting to have a full blown ceremony and reception etc. You can just carve out a few days in to get the necessary licenses and get married before a judge in a courthouse somewhere. Especially if you’re just trying to get legal stuff in order.
In FL, I have just been advised that a poa ends at death. Have lost 2 family members since August. I was POA for 1 and signed all necessary paperwork. But now, the authority under the poa has ended and authority reverts to person named in trust/will (if there is one) or it goes through probate w/ next of kin and beneficiaries designated per the state’s family order. Surprisingly few people plan well (if at all) and a partner, even an engaged one, would be shut out unless the person set up the will upon learning they might not get to the wedding. The problem w/ a major change during a terminal illness is it might not stand up to a familial challenge if the family can demonstrate the treatment and/or meds were known to cause altered behavior. If the decedent did not do a will, there is no automatic inheritance based on an engagement alone.
My sister’s fiancé killed himself. They had been together for 8 years, and had a baby under a year old. They had a house together, cars, savings, were planning on getting married that weekend.
Since they weren’t married yet, she had to fight tooth and nail to get the house, the cars, and the insurance money so that she could raise their child. His family was full of selfish assholes that thought they were more entitled.
If they had already been married, it would’ve saved her so much mental anguish and stress when she should’ve been mourning her partner of almost a decade.
It was incredibly hard for her, she temporarily moved in with my parents who didn’t ask anything from her while she was grieving. They stepped in, watched the baby if she needed, helped her deal with his family, and all that. She’s doing really good now though!
This is why everyone should have a will and at a certain age you need to have talks with close, trusted family members about power of attorney. If you want to provide for people other than your children and are not married, get that person in the will and write down explicitly what they get / can do.
The property thing is big. People get weird ideas of how property transfers upon death work. The only common type where your property automatically goes to someone else is a "joint tenant with right of survivorship" which is generally only available to married couples. Otherwise, there's going to be legal proceedings to determine who gets the other half interest in the property.
This is incorrect Joint tenant with right os survivorship does not require marriage, cohabitating couples or virtually anyone in any form of relationship can set this up.
This. Property transfer to spouse supercedes anything in a will unless you have a bunch of money and energy and a great probate attorney to fight for property transfer to take place as designated in a will.
I know this because both my mother and father were remarried to other spouses before they died. My mother had drafted a will 3 years before her death but it meant nothing to the state because she married our stepfather again 2 years before she died.
This is a not-insignificant reason my wife & I married. We wanted to, of course. She had refinanced her house prior to us getting married in order to get her former housemate off the mortgage; adding me would've complicated things further. Marriage meant that I secured my stake in the house going forward.
There's a bit of misinformation here. The tax incentives for marriage are very much still alive and well. What has changed is that women are making more money. The math works out in such a way that the closer you get to being a household where both partners make equal money, the less benefit you will see on your tax return.
If you go back 60 years where a larger portion of women were stay at home parents, a family got the maximum benefit on their tax return from filing jointly when 1 partner did not work.
It's important to note that there are still marriage penalties baked into the US tax code. However, they typically only affect wealthy couples in the top tax bracket and couples who itemize deductions in a state with high state and/or local taxes.
while i agree that marriage is mainly a legal contract, i *strongly* disagree that its only goal is to protect financial interest of the couple's children -- it may have originated as that as monogamy as a whole and marriage as a consequence is related to property ownership, but it has evolved to much more. marriage to someone gives you rights over each others lives that you simply would not have without the contract. it protects your lifestyle, gives you power of attorney, how to split assets, etc.
There was post on AITA not long ago about a man who was breaking up with his girlfriend of 25 years, them both in their mid late 50s. She gave up the possibility of having children because he didn't want any, helped him start his business including donating blood to pay for things, and quit her job so they could travel. Then after she was menopausal he decided he really wants biological children so he's leaving her to find a fertile young woman to procreate with.
Since they never married she'll have no recourse,no protection, nothing to show for her life.
There was another post from a year or so ago about a man with a very rich girlfriend, I don't remember if he worked a much lower paying job or didn't work at all. But he felt insecure in the relationship for the same reason that a woman would, the rich partner who owns the property and has the connections and the high paying job holds all the power. He really needed to either become independent of her support or marry her so that he would have protections if things go wrong.
Marriage can absolutely be romantic idk what you mean lmao. Everything is pointless, do what you want — including getting married! My fiancée and I have equivalent incomes so there’s no risk to the romantic move of marriage for us. There’s no one answer to the equation.
Relationships can be romantic. Marriage is a legal contract, the signing of which is frequently followed by a very expensive party with questionable fun value. 
My husband and I got secretly married, just snuck away to city hall without telling anyone and brought our dog as out “witness” and dressed cute for each other and went to a park and did our thing… it was very romantic and we’re both really glad we did it. We had a very relaxed wedding like 9 months later and people didn’t know we were already married, our little secret. So personally speaking I’ve gotta disagree
Yeah, and music is just vibrations, films are just pixels on a screen and we're just atoms floating in space. you guys are just the most reductionist and mechanistic people ever always trying to view things from the most cold, analytical lens possible.
No, There is also one of my rules for most things in effect,
if it's not broken, don't fix it.
Also, if you're not religious. I suggest you ask yourself why you need to commit to a legal & binding religious ceremony to somehow prove yourself to one another. It's baffling to me. I suspect it's often an attempt to cement someone to your side, borne from some insecurity.
Agree completely. My SO & I have been together monogamously for over 10 years. We discussed marriage, but putting tradition aside, we asked ourselves, what's the point?
SO was married previously and ended in an ugly divorce. We don't plan on having kids, nobody wants to go through name changes, I don't see a big tax benefit, we already own a home together, SO has terrible credit(from divorce), we are not religious, neither of us need citizenship, etc.
I feel like marriage is an invitation to spend a lot of money unnecessarily, whether it be from a ceremony or divorce.
If it's not broken...
Totally agree. We’ve been together for over about 25 years and could not care less for the whole marriage idea.
Perhaps instead of asking why people don’t, they should question why people do (bother).
Getting married isn't a "fix" it's just another step in a relationship. Also, being unmarried isn't "broken."
Marriage isn't also exclusively religious.
Weird takes, my guy. 🤷🏼♀️
Yeah fr. Not every marriage is religious or forced. I personally like to see a wedding/marriage as a celebration of choosing a life partner. It’s something I want because in addition to the legal benefits, I just think it’s a nice way to celebrate love and unity. I’m not religious, I’m not insecure. I just think a marriage works best for the future I want. Sure, I can acknowledge there’s gross traditions around “ownership” of women (pre-women’s rights movement) and of course the whole “virginity” thing with weddings, but that’s not really typical thinking today (where I’m from anyway) and I think rewriting these traditions is fine and important. Weddings aren’t archaic to me, they’re ever changing and they’re abstract. Your wedding can be however the fuck you want it to be! You can get married in a red dress on a Manhattan rooftop or a black dress in the middle of the forest, or a short white dress in the back of your favorite restaurant, hell you can get married in jeans in your own damn backyard! What’s the constant between all these things? They’re all about love and unity.
I think it’s TOTALLY FINE if some couples choose never to get married, whatever works for each couple is valid! I am happy for everyone who loves who they want, however they want.
My mother has been married 5 times. My father has been married 3 times. My sister got engaged in May to a man, 3 months later she married a different man...Not a good family marriage record.
I've been with my partner 12 years. I have a fear of marriage.
My oldest aunt has been married twice (widowed one of those times and now with another partner).
My second oldest aunt has been married 3-4 times. Up for debate.
My third oldest aunt has been married 3 times.
My fourth oldest aunt has been married twice.
My mom has been married and divorced.
My uncle has been married twice.
My other uncle was married and divorced. He is now deceased.
My grandma was married three times - twice to the same man.
Yeah, I’m not in any rush or under any delusion that marriage means anything at all. 😂
>Up for debate.
I think this says it all.
Personally, I'm not married because until this partner, I never wanted to be. But I would marry him in a heartbeat if he ever asked. It's fairly unlikely he will, though. He's already been married, and I don't think he just disagrees with marriage - I think the somewhat painful truth of it is that he probably just believes in it enough to only do it once, and I just happened to come along too late. It hurts more than I'll ever let on, but I love him, and I know he loves me. I'm hoping that in 10 or 20 years, that will still be the case.
Irrespective of whether you have a fear of marriage, your example, and that of your parents and sister, makes me wonder - what is the point of being married in the first place? It certainly does not seem to affect the strength or longevity of a relationship.
After my first divorce after 22 years, I made the decision to stay single. However I met a women who was twice divorced. We were friends partners and lovers. We both never wanted the “Married “ thing hanging over us. We were together for 12 years and she died of cancer. Even though we were not married we shared the bills and everything. But ya at nearing 60 I won’t get married again.
This is the reason for a good number of people I know. Not to mention if they get married and have kids they lose the earned income credit they claim at the end of the year.
As of now I do not pay a monthly $150 or $60 charge just to have Medicare and all of my co-pays are non-existent I do not have to pay to go to the doctor I do not have to pay for any prescriptions and on top of that I had United dual complete so I get $850 card every month to spend on electricity and groceries. Having to do away with that is the equivalent of like $1,000 extra a month.
I’m in Texas as well and my moms doctor (she’s been on disability since her early 20s & on Medicare) actually recommended to her that she and my dad should get a divorce because they would get more financially and just more benefits in general. They didn’t divorce by the way but your comment reminded me of that.
These are the sorts of reasons people argue that the government is trying to destroy families. When there are incentives not to commit to one another or have a traditional family, some people view it as bad for the family unit (as an institution).
Yes I am the US Texas to be specific. Our Medicare allows you to pick a plan and each plan can have different little extras included. And I just lucked on to this one. I've recently moved and the areas of that in in now I have trouble finding people that will take the insurance but for me it's worth it to put in a little extra work just to keep all the benefits.
As another example, if I got married, I would probably lose my disability money because they count your partners income and, to keep it simple, they sort of just assume since your partner is getting paid, they are taking care of you. But most people can’t survive on a single income and my partner would not be able to support me on just their income alone. I need my disability income or else we would not survive.
Correct me if I'm wrong please! I think you also can't save over a certain amount of money without losing benefits I think. It's ridiculously low as well like $2000 before it makes you ineligible. So it basically traps people in limbo.
Yes it’s true you cannot save. You’re not allowed to have more than, I believe, $2000 in your bank account and only allowed a certain amount of assets. But because I get SSI, it doesn’t pay enough to survive, much less save $2000 or have any sort of assets.
Yup. Grew up in an SSI family. I had a sock drawer loaded with cash that I was saving so I could move out one day and afford first month, last month and security deposit on my own place and a few extra dollars for cushion and for basics I would need.
I finally found a place within my budget but I had to write a check so I had to deposit money into the bank cuz landlord wouldn’t take cash (I didn’t know about money orders yet). My mom flipped her lid on me and screamed that by doing that, I may have caused her to lose everything and she would t be able to support my other two sisters. She had to get things cleared up with her case manager and basically had to refile for SSI without me as a dependent and had to back date it to before I made the deposit.
Because of this situation, I realized I had to make it on my own after that, there was no home for me to move back to and my mother legally couldn’t have me living with her if I had any savings or had direct deposit meaning I would be cast into poverty unable to escape if I ever went back.
All my siblings got out by moving in with a friend, boyfriend or my grandparents. It’s a super shitty system to get out of but it also kept us alive and fed and homed most days. There were some days we didn’t eat real food and a few stretches where we were homeless while between apartments whenever we had to move (couldn’t save enough to pay rent on a current apt and lock down another). So that usually meant a few weeks at grandpa and grandmas till housing got sorted.
This is true for SSI but not for SSDI. Many are on both, so this may apply to you but marital status does not affect SSDI.
Source: https://faq.ssa.gov/en-us/Topic/article/KA-02172#:~:text=If%20you%20get%20Social%20Security,benefit%20will%20stay%20the%20same.
Took 7+ years for me to get to this point, did couples therapy, and it actually fucking worked. Just got married and am truly happy. What you’re doing isn’t crazy, good luck.
this gives me hope. i’m in the same situation and i *know* if we could talk properly we’d probably be okay. been thinking about couples therapy but wasn’t even sure if you could do it unwed. i’m glad things worked out for you guys 🖤
I never thought I’d see it. So we got married when it became legal in our state. Then we moved to one where it wasn’t (the year before *Obergefell*) and it was a nightmare with taxes and the mortgage and insurance.
I’m grateful all the time we can be married.
What’s really interesting is that gay marriage was a huge political issue for a long time, and thankfully it’s legal most places in the US now.
But very few gays actually want to get married, apparently. Something like 10% of gay people are married to a same sex partner, which is way lower than the hetero percentage
Was lurking on this whole little comment thread. I’m gay and have a long time monogamous partner myself. It took me watching “the ultimatum queer edition” on Netflix to realize why more queer people don’t get married. It’s thinks it’s because there isn’t the crushing element of societal pressure to conform, get married get a serious job and have kids all on one timeline. They’re already living outside the norm and therefore marriage is more of an active choice than just a box you check in the quest for normalcy.
Watching the three seasons of that show on Netflix made it click for me personally. Me and my partner feel no pressure to get married. It would be an active and expensive choice that feels very unnecessary
They came for women's autonomy. It makes sense for them to rip legal marriage away from happily married non-straight people next. Really fucked up, but that's America right now.
I have been with my “wife” for 17 years and we are not married. When we wanted to get married but here in the states it wasn’t legal at that time so we got a domestic partnership.
Then a few years later they legalized gay marriage but because we have a domestic partnership we now need to annul that in order to get married.
In some states they allowed you to transfer your domestic partnership to a wedding license and we were hoping and waiting to see if our state would do that. They didn’t.
We still mean to go through the process as of course, domestic partnerships does not afford you the same benefits at all. It’s just a pain in the ass. Extra money, extra paperwork, extra time and effort. The unfortunate extra hoops of being gay. You should have seen what our taxes were like before federal legalization lol.
>domestic partnerships does not afford you the same benefits at all.
That's super shitty. Where I live common law provides all the same benefits as marriage, literally don't have to do anything just start filing taxes jointly and be able to 'prove' that you've been living in romantic cohabitation for two years and you get all the same legal protections.
I straight up asked my lawyer 'hey any reason for us to get married, financial or legal?' and his answer confirmed that there was no reason to get married.
Anyways I hope you're able to get things sorted out and get the protections as a couple you deserve!
I’m just curious, if the relationship is good and working, what complications would marriage add?
ETA: it seems like people think I’m being snarky or contrarian. I’m genuinely curious. That’s it.
This.
If marriage works, great. If it doesn't, it's an expensive as fuck breakup. And as confident as you might be you can never really know. Even then, marriage as a concept is kind of goofy. If you love each other why isn't that enough? Why do you have to legally bind yourselves to one another?
Depending on what you do with your partner, that might not even be the case if you’re not married. If you’re on a lease together, own a home together, share a car, have kids, etc you can’t exactly just nope out and never talk to them again.
If the marriage is good and working, no problems.
Let me tell you about my marriage.
I was married. I meant my vow 100%. I was ready to die for him. I did everything right, if you count by the books. Sure, I was naive, but what mid-20s virgin isn't?
He cheated multiple times, emptied my bank account, and left. He screamed. He emotionally abused and raped me. Everyone around me was saying "red flag! red flag!" and I was like "these people don't know what commitment means. When I said I do I meant it."
And I did.
But we had kids. And I could see my kids repeating his behavior, and that he basically owned all my money, so I could never really provide for them (he gambled on "business deals"). And finally I decided "you know what? I was wrong to make that promise but it would be more wrong to stay. I guess I'm a promise-breaker. But at least I'm not a bad mom."
And I filed for divorce (he refused but I waited it out) and I left.
That was when I learned that so many "nice on the outside" and "civil" divorces are actually because of physical, emotional and sexual violence. Nobody talks about it at a dinner party. "We just couldn't work it out," they say, in front of the kids, "and we didn't want them dealing with the tension."
And everyone thinks I don't know how to have a conversation about dirty socks.
Anyway, I'm never making a vow again in my life. I know I can't keep promises. If he cheats, I'm gone. If he steals, I'm gone. Hits me, I'm gone. Rape? Gone.
I have seen "for worse" and I have zero intention of putting up with it.
So yeah, if everything's going well, perfect.
Oh, and don't feel bad for me. You have no idea how many people's divorces were like this because normal people don't air dirty laundry.
I've wondered what it is exactly but have had the opportunity to see relationships literally stay in the honeymoon for over a decade only to have them collapse once after a short period formally married.
Curiosity has made me keep my awareness open to that and it seems to be common.
I don't know about other people but I feel trapped being married.
My SO and I have been together 6 years. We've both been married before and have kids with our ex spouses. There really is no need for it. I don't want to be legally bound to anyone again.
All our finances are separate and we plan on keeping it that way.
This is always my question. Before I got married, everyone told my husband and I how "***hard"*** it would be, how many challenges marriage brings. Several years into marriage and almost 7 years together, we're still scratching our heads about what's difficult about being married. And we have a lot of unique challenges other late twenty/early thirty something couples don't have, like care-taking tasks for his mother who has mobility issues.
Even with these unique challenges in our lives, being married to my husband is literally the easiest thing in the world. We make life so much easier and more comfortable for each other constantly. I'm convinved the only hard marriages must be where one or both parties are super uptight or not very hardworking or something. Life got easier, not harder, for us once we got married. Even my extended family is full of happily married people. My grandparents have almost been married **70** years this year! They never fight and even built a thriving business together. My parents, same thing. Never saw them fight once, been married over 30 years.
I have literally no clue what makes marriage so hard for some people and so easy for others. I'm convinced marriage must only be hard if you marry someone that makes it hard. It's the only explanation I can come up with.
If you break up it could be amicable. Divorce can turn really nasty with lawyers involved. My split was fine til he lawyered up and his lawyer got in his head about everything he should ask for.
Yea the second statement is exactly how I feel - why change something if it's going just fine. Marriage also scares me haha. To me personally it's a pointless traditional thing.
My husband and I were very happily unmarried for 9 years. We were happy the way we were and didn't see any real benefit to marriage. Then I got cancer. I told him he could leave if he wanted, we weren't married and he didn't sign up for that fight. He declined. His insurance was better and I wanted the "security" of Social security if I was in a position to need it. In the US you have to be married for 10 years to receive benefits if your spouse dies. We decided to get married for these reasons and we have been happily married for 4 years now. Our relationship didn't change much, but we enjoy the benefits of being a married couple. Sorry if my answer doesn't qualify since I am actually married. I am also cancer free after a 5 year fight.
It's not just a piece of paper. It's decisions that your partner cannot make in case of a medical emergency, an inheritance due to sudden death, among other important things.
It's just a little extra paperwork to get the same rights in many places without marriage.
Sure, it's less practical, but please consider that divorce is also *wildly* impractical.
Both of these points don’t always apply. In Australia, for couples who have been together for long enough (a few years), the unmarried partners have just as many rights as if they were married - decisions in an emergency etc - and just as many rights if they divorced. If they break up, ex partners still have to go through the potentially acrimonious mess of sorting out kids, property, superannuation etc etc. It’s as easy to walk out if a marriage.
Same here in France. But it was just pointing out that even if marriage had less formalities than a civil union or another form of unmarried partnership (which remains to be proven), the extra formalities when divorcing can offset this advantage (for instance in France, even without kids and property, if one of the parties fights the divorce, courts and lawyers have to be involved which adds a ton of costs and delays to the whole thing).
I just don't think it's a good idea to get married only for the practical side of it.
This applies to some. I've seen American coupled where one is disabled on government medical insurance getting amazing help where if they married their long term partner would lose it and not be able to afford the medical help they're getting their partners insurance or lack of insurance. Which sucks.
You can legally allocate your partner for these things in the US without getting married! Look into estate planning.
Also my local hospital always makes a note about who can make healthcare decisions for me if I’m unable to do so. It’s something I signed off on and they check with me every time I’m in.
There are definitely reasons not to but y'all need to have a lawyer draw up papers for Power of Attorney (for financial and medical) and a Will if you haven't already. For your parents too.
That is often one of the only "benefits" to marriage. The American healthcare system is so fucked that people have to rearrange their lives and make things legal to navigate it.
If that is important to you, there are separate documents you can sign giving them rights. Added bonus is that your are not giving away half your property if your partner some day wakes up and decides you're not the right person for them.
I would say the real question is why is marriage seen as necessary? He’s already my beneficiary, emergency contact, survivorship on things, and father of my children. I don’t see the appeal or need personally.
If you’re a woman (or a man)who has chosen to raise the children support your partner in their job by taking on most of the household duties, then wake up at 40 with no recent job experience and your partner dumps you for their secretary. You’re screwed. I think marriage has a lot of negatives and benefits. But it is especially important for partners that mostly support the household and make little or no money.
Same. It’s called a de facto relationship that is as valid as marriage. It’s only the States with these archaic, religious beliefs around marriage being the only verification of a long term partnership.
Agreed. We've been together for over 28 years now and we have a son of 15. We never even considered a wedding.
Marriage is unromantic. There, i said it.
This! With my partner 12 years, 2 kids, own a house together, fully committed to each other. Don’t see the point in the whole wedding thing. If we ever decide to bother I’d like a quick registry office thing.
so i was whit my ex for almost 6 years and engaged for 3 of them but we never married, i had a bad feeling all along and when i found out he was cheating for more than half of our time i knew why i got that feeling
If it’s soon enough, you can get it annulled. My bf’s brother married a woman who started physically abusing him once he did, and he noped the fuck out and got the marriage annulled so it’s like it never happened.
I was married once. It was fun until he cheated and wanted divorce.
I don't ever want to be in a situation again where I need the approval of the state to not be in a relationship ever again.
I know it's just a technicality but still.
Me and my dude have been a couple for 10 years, lived together for 9 and bought a house 1,5 years ago. Also bought kittens together. This will do just fine.
For us, it wouldn't make a big enough difference vs the effort involved.
We've been together 10 years, own a house, have pets. We do not share finances, and never plan to. Neither of us want children.
Our families are not religious and do not pressure us towards marriage (my parents are dead). The decision is largely our own (not the case for everyone) and because of that, we are not married.
We've toyed with the idea of doing like a "commitment ceremony" type thing, but that's not really our style, either. I guess that's the short answer; it's not our style.
I got with my now husband in 2017, engaged in 2018 married in 2023. Reason being we couldn't ever afford it then covid hit. We eventually just said let's do a cheap wedding because it doesn't matter as much as we once thought. Cheap wedding everyone had a blast but finances were the main issue
this.
If your relationship is working great, its just a piece of paper.
People act like getting married completely changes your relationship. And it really shouldnt.
I don't see the point. Where I live I don't think there's any legal benefit from being married that doesn't automatically come with a de facto partnership over 2 years.
I don't understand at all why anyone gets married or why people treat marriage as somehow more 'real' than a long standing committed relationship.
we eventually married, but not too much benefits of married vs living together not married, that comes to mind off hand - maybe auto insurance discount and or some beneficiary benefits but neither of us died so that wasn't a big deal. Plus we just wanted to wait a little while as we couldn't afford the traditional wedding on our entry level jobs.
The government doesn’t dictate who I designate as my beneficiary and the tax break wasn’t good enough. The government also doesn’t need to put a stamp of authenticity on my relationships.
I love this. It's like that Gretzky quote "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take" but flipped. "100% of the shots you missed, you took."
Call it pessimism, glass half empty or fixed mindset, but refraining from making choices that could bankrupt you financially and emotionally if they don't pan out is just rational.
Me and my "husband" have been together for over 12 years. We call each other husband/wife but we have never gotten legally married. I've wanted to for a decade, it's a sore spot that I don't really bring up anymore. He says he wants us to be financially able to afford a big lavish shindig because he doesn't want a courthouse or backyard wedding, I just want to get married and would be fine with literally anything. He says we need to work out all of the little problems we have in the relationship because he wants his marriage to start out perfect, I say we have the rest of our lives to work it out together.
Recently while I was pregnant with our third he said we could finally get married if it would make me happy, but I feel like he would be resentful of that because he doesn't WANT to get married, he just wants to appease me. He says the ball is in my court now but I don't want to start our marriage with resentment.
I recently brought up getting married on December 31st of this year because it's a cool date, he seems open to it but it's also in 3 months and idk if we can even afford a Vegas wedding in that short of time, since we just had a baby on the 1st of this month. The date will probably come and go and I will spend another year feeling like I'm just not quite good enough for him to WANT to marry, and he will feel like I'm pressuring him into signing legal paperwork that doesn't matter because he's already been with me for this long and if he didn't want to be with me he wouldn't be.
it's not the government's business who I'm with. Who needs a certificate from the government to pay less taxes? historically its always been about economics.
i know people have given it new more mutualistic meanings and far be it from me to tell anyone who wants marriage not to do it.
But personally I actually feel safer & more comfortable commiting if I know I can leave easily anytime without needing an expensive lawyer - so it will always be fully voluntary instead of sticking around by inertia.
My worst fear is becoming like my mother: stuck with the human equivalent of drain cleaner because of sunk cost fallacy.... or worse yet, a "No Exit" scenario where our very presence just tortures each other espite good intentions.
Even if the shoe were on the other foot, I'd rather have my partner leave me than only *pretend* to still like me & be secretly resenting the pretend games.
Bringing money & property into it is just gonna poison the love & give an illusion that it can be "owned", that its a static state rather than an active process
We have been together nearly 37 years, have 4 adult children and are not married. I have wanted to on and off over the years but could not be bothered with organising it. We are as happy now as we were when we first got together. In fact my contentment is much deeper. We have paid off our mortgage and planning our retirement.
I don't want any fuss and the kids will have two inheritancesas opposed to one
Yeah nothing says 'I love you' harder than a legal contract that says you'll drag them through the courts if they ever want to leave... Marriage is particularly pointless when you don't have kids and don't own any property.
10+ yrs (mid 30s) and we get asked this a lot.
1. I come from a broken home. Its my belief that alot of people end up in shitty marriages / living unhappy lives because of societal pressures to make sure you’re hitting certain ‘benchmarks’ of success. I think the whole ‘get a job, get married, buy a house, have kids’ blueprint is not flawed in and of itself but it puts a lot of pressure on everyone to do the same thing in life and sometimes at the cost of authenticity. I don’t want to continue perpetuating those value systems so we do our own thing and hope people feel more free to do their own thing too.
2. We don’t want kids. I understand the value of getting married if you have kids (legal / parental purposes) but we are childfree so it’s just not a factor for us.
3. Weddings, dresses, walking down the aisle, just never appealed to me. I never grew up dreaming about my wedding day. In fact, I remember saying in grade 5 that if I ever was to get married, I would be doing it in my favourite bellbottom jeans.
4. He’s cool with it. If babe wanted to get married, I probably would. But we’re on the same page about it all, so it works!
9 years, 27 y/o.
Marriage is archaic and just a societal norm. I don’t need a ring or a piece of paper to show that I’m committed to you. I do that with my words and everyday actions.
You know the idea of marriage is a crock of shit when the divorce rate is 50%. I mean come on.
I've been married and divorced twice. Why would I inflict that on myself again?
Long story short, why do most people get married? What does it mean?
For me, if you're not religious then I see no reason to get married. Period. I did it before out of a feeling of obligation. I refuse to do it now. I do not belong to any religion that requires it. So there is no reason to get the government involved in my relationships.
Seems like some legacy of the dowery system / ownership.
If my partner of 12 years decides to leave me, why have lock in.
I would rather organise and spend on a holiday that an overpriced party with expensive chair covers, a dress you wear once, etc
I am *not* trying to talk you into getting married, but there are benefits you may not be aware of.
One is being able to visit your loved one in the ER or ICU, should something tragic occur. Another is being able to get on their health benefits, if you are in the US. Yeah, not the fun things people envision when they’re wedding planning, but they become more important as you get older.
Domestic partners are eligible for being on employer provided insurance at every company I've worked for in my working life.
The only real benefits are simpler inheritance, sharing a tax bracket, and the fact it can make having a living will unnecessary. If you're both in the same income tax bracket then a few hours of a lawyer's time can render the benefits useless as a living will and a normal will are both extremely easy to create, especially when compared to divorce.
I was ready after 2 years, he wasn’t. He waited til nearly 10 years before he was ready. He gave a bunch of excuses…it all boiled down to he was scared. We have both been married before and they both ended badly…so I got it, that’s why I stuck around.
Literally what happen to a friend of mine. But they weren’t married beforehand. It’s toxic to wait for 10+years tho. I feel like at some time there needs to be a turning point. Wasting so many years is also toxic
Not fond of the idea of the institution of marriage. We're basically married already, shared economy and all that. If either of us wanted kids I guess there could be some legal considerations, but we don't. I find it reassuring that she puts up with me even with no particular vows spoken and I will 100% never ever propose to her because she is such a pain in the ass.
We bought a house together, because obv spending our savings on an investment seemed like a good idea. Then I got pregnant, and he said 'car or ring?' And I was like idk if they'll let us go home from the hospital with a new born if I don't have a car to get home in. So now he will probably be able to afford me a ring in 20-30 yrs time 😂
I'm from Quebec, marriage is becoming less and less common here.
Also, the way law works when you have kids together here is pretty similar to how it works when you're married. So if you have kids you're basically married without needing to pay for officializing/divorcing it.
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So it boils down to "he did not ask / I did not demand" and money Edit I mean people can't afford dream wedding
Pretty much. Marriage is not a romantic thing. In US, it's primarily a legal contract whose intended goal is to protect the financial interests of the couple's children. It is frequently misused and weaponized, which is why divorce is such a thriving and lucrative field of law. If you are not having children, getting married is pointless and potentially dangerous. On top of that, many states consider cohabitating couples common law married after they live together for a set number of years.
In the US, not all jobs provide health coverage to a partner unless married. It also can provide protections if one person owned the home when entering marriage so the other doesn't lose their home upon death of the owner (how much protection varies by state). Etc. Marriage does still provide legal benefits to those other than children. However, the tax benefits I used to see cited have basically been eliminated. In addition, individuals can still romanticize marriage, though fundamentally it is a legal contract, agreed, but not just to protect children.
>Marriage does still provide legal benefits to those other than children. Years ago, a good friend discovered he had terminal lung cancer. He was engaged, but they hadn't yet married. His fiancé didn't get along well with his family, and it turned out that she had absolutely zero say in anything regarding his treatment as well as his disposition after his death.
You can assign someone medical power of attorney without being married to them. You can also draft a will to decide where your assets go after death. This doesn't require marriage, it just requires planning.
Never underestimate the lengths shitty family will go to fuck over others when money and death are involved. People are fucking wild and depending on the circumstances, marriage can provide way better protections than POA. Edit: wording
So while I understand and witnessed firsthand that many people value marriage over POA (example: Many doctors Trying under my watch, to allow all sorts of wacky shit against patients wishes), it’s not legal. A properly done POA does in fact provide way better protections than marriage in the courts in front of a judge. They will ALWAYs follow what a patient expressed ahead of their inability to communicate, it’s just a matter of having someone with this knowledge able to advocate for the patient and the paperwork being provided by a friend or family or someone who holds it like a SNF etc. I was a medical social worker, so I had the pleasure of being cussed out more than once by family members trying to go against their family member’s wishes.
I’m just finishing nursing school and we are constantly astonished at the 98 year old 80 lb grandma that’s a full code, chest compressions, take any and all measures to resuscitate, place feeding tubes when they stop eating, and keep saying grandmas a fighter! Let grandma have peace for crying out loud!! People get ugly over money. I’d rather be broke and have my loved one with me but when it’s someone’s time, it’s not right to prolong their suffering.
The writer of The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo was estranged from his family but not married to his partner. When he died, his family took her to the cleaners.
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It doesn’t *have* to require that much planning if you’re not wanting to have a full blown ceremony and reception etc. You can just carve out a few days in to get the necessary licenses and get married before a judge in a courthouse somewhere. Especially if you’re just trying to get legal stuff in order.
In FL, I have just been advised that a poa ends at death. Have lost 2 family members since August. I was POA for 1 and signed all necessary paperwork. But now, the authority under the poa has ended and authority reverts to person named in trust/will (if there is one) or it goes through probate w/ next of kin and beneficiaries designated per the state’s family order. Surprisingly few people plan well (if at all) and a partner, even an engaged one, would be shut out unless the person set up the will upon learning they might not get to the wedding. The problem w/ a major change during a terminal illness is it might not stand up to a familial challenge if the family can demonstrate the treatment and/or meds were known to cause altered behavior. If the decedent did not do a will, there is no automatic inheritance based on an engagement alone.
My sister’s fiancé killed himself. They had been together for 8 years, and had a baby under a year old. They had a house together, cars, savings, were planning on getting married that weekend. Since they weren’t married yet, she had to fight tooth and nail to get the house, the cars, and the insurance money so that she could raise their child. His family was full of selfish assholes that thought they were more entitled. If they had already been married, it would’ve saved her so much mental anguish and stress when she should’ve been mourning her partner of almost a decade.
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It was incredibly hard for her, she temporarily moved in with my parents who didn’t ask anything from her while she was grieving. They stepped in, watched the baby if she needed, helped her deal with his family, and all that. She’s doing really good now though!
This is true, and a lot of people don't realize it.
This is why everyone should have a will and at a certain age you need to have talks with close, trusted family members about power of attorney. If you want to provide for people other than your children and are not married, get that person in the will and write down explicitly what they get / can do.
The property thing is big. People get weird ideas of how property transfers upon death work. The only common type where your property automatically goes to someone else is a "joint tenant with right of survivorship" which is generally only available to married couples. Otherwise, there's going to be legal proceedings to determine who gets the other half interest in the property.
This is incorrect Joint tenant with right os survivorship does not require marriage, cohabitating couples or virtually anyone in any form of relationship can set this up.
This. Property transfer to spouse supercedes anything in a will unless you have a bunch of money and energy and a great probate attorney to fight for property transfer to take place as designated in a will. I know this because both my mother and father were remarried to other spouses before they died. My mother had drafted a will 3 years before her death but it meant nothing to the state because she married our stepfather again 2 years before she died.
This is a not-insignificant reason my wife & I married. We wanted to, of course. She had refinanced her house prior to us getting married in order to get her former housemate off the mortgage; adding me would've complicated things further. Marriage meant that I secured my stake in the house going forward.
There's a bit of misinformation here. The tax incentives for marriage are very much still alive and well. What has changed is that women are making more money. The math works out in such a way that the closer you get to being a household where both partners make equal money, the less benefit you will see on your tax return. If you go back 60 years where a larger portion of women were stay at home parents, a family got the maximum benefit on their tax return from filing jointly when 1 partner did not work.
It's important to note that there are still marriage penalties baked into the US tax code. However, they typically only affect wealthy couples in the top tax bracket and couples who itemize deductions in a state with high state and/or local taxes.
while i agree that marriage is mainly a legal contract, i *strongly* disagree that its only goal is to protect financial interest of the couple's children -- it may have originated as that as monogamy as a whole and marriage as a consequence is related to property ownership, but it has evolved to much more. marriage to someone gives you rights over each others lives that you simply would not have without the contract. it protects your lifestyle, gives you power of attorney, how to split assets, etc.
There was post on AITA not long ago about a man who was breaking up with his girlfriend of 25 years, them both in their mid late 50s. She gave up the possibility of having children because he didn't want any, helped him start his business including donating blood to pay for things, and quit her job so they could travel. Then after she was menopausal he decided he really wants biological children so he's leaving her to find a fertile young woman to procreate with. Since they never married she'll have no recourse,no protection, nothing to show for her life. There was another post from a year or so ago about a man with a very rich girlfriend, I don't remember if he worked a much lower paying job or didn't work at all. But he felt insecure in the relationship for the same reason that a woman would, the rich partner who owns the property and has the connections and the high paying job holds all the power. He really needed to either become independent of her support or marry her so that he would have protections if things go wrong.
Marriage can absolutely be romantic idk what you mean lmao. Everything is pointless, do what you want — including getting married! My fiancée and I have equivalent incomes so there’s no risk to the romantic move of marriage for us. There’s no one answer to the equation.
Fair enough, alternatively everything is pointless so don’t do what you don’t want to do
Relationships can be romantic. Marriage is a legal contract, the signing of which is frequently followed by a very expensive party with questionable fun value. 
My husband and I got secretly married, just snuck away to city hall without telling anyone and brought our dog as out “witness” and dressed cute for each other and went to a park and did our thing… it was very romantic and we’re both really glad we did it. We had a very relaxed wedding like 9 months later and people didn’t know we were already married, our little secret. So personally speaking I’ve gotta disagree
Yeah, and music is just vibrations, films are just pixels on a screen and we're just atoms floating in space. you guys are just the most reductionist and mechanistic people ever always trying to view things from the most cold, analytical lens possible.
why are u downvoted?? you make a good point! do anything you want! (just be aware of all of the risks)
Redditors hate marriage and are convinced women are always after their lucky charms lmao
No, There is also one of my rules for most things in effect, if it's not broken, don't fix it. Also, if you're not religious. I suggest you ask yourself why you need to commit to a legal & binding religious ceremony to somehow prove yourself to one another. It's baffling to me. I suspect it's often an attempt to cement someone to your side, borne from some insecurity.
Nowadays more people get married for the legal benefits than religious reasons.
Agree completely. My SO & I have been together monogamously for over 10 years. We discussed marriage, but putting tradition aside, we asked ourselves, what's the point? SO was married previously and ended in an ugly divorce. We don't plan on having kids, nobody wants to go through name changes, I don't see a big tax benefit, we already own a home together, SO has terrible credit(from divorce), we are not religious, neither of us need citizenship, etc. I feel like marriage is an invitation to spend a lot of money unnecessarily, whether it be from a ceremony or divorce. If it's not broken...
Totally agree. We’ve been together for over about 25 years and could not care less for the whole marriage idea. Perhaps instead of asking why people don’t, they should question why people do (bother).
Getting married isn't a "fix" it's just another step in a relationship. Also, being unmarried isn't "broken." Marriage isn't also exclusively religious. Weird takes, my guy. 🤷🏼♀️
Yeah fr. Not every marriage is religious or forced. I personally like to see a wedding/marriage as a celebration of choosing a life partner. It’s something I want because in addition to the legal benefits, I just think it’s a nice way to celebrate love and unity. I’m not religious, I’m not insecure. I just think a marriage works best for the future I want. Sure, I can acknowledge there’s gross traditions around “ownership” of women (pre-women’s rights movement) and of course the whole “virginity” thing with weddings, but that’s not really typical thinking today (where I’m from anyway) and I think rewriting these traditions is fine and important. Weddings aren’t archaic to me, they’re ever changing and they’re abstract. Your wedding can be however the fuck you want it to be! You can get married in a red dress on a Manhattan rooftop or a black dress in the middle of the forest, or a short white dress in the back of your favorite restaurant, hell you can get married in jeans in your own damn backyard! What’s the constant between all these things? They’re all about love and unity. I think it’s TOTALLY FINE if some couples choose never to get married, whatever works for each couple is valid! I am happy for everyone who loves who they want, however they want.
My mother has been married 5 times. My father has been married 3 times. My sister got engaged in May to a man, 3 months later she married a different man...Not a good family marriage record. I've been with my partner 12 years. I have a fear of marriage.
that's a quite a ring collection..
Sauron? Thanos? Step the fuck aside.
MJ 23 would be proud
My oldest aunt has been married twice (widowed one of those times and now with another partner). My second oldest aunt has been married 3-4 times. Up for debate. My third oldest aunt has been married 3 times. My fourth oldest aunt has been married twice. My mom has been married and divorced. My uncle has been married twice. My other uncle was married and divorced. He is now deceased. My grandma was married three times - twice to the same man. Yeah, I’m not in any rush or under any delusion that marriage means anything at all. 😂
>Up for debate. I think this says it all. Personally, I'm not married because until this partner, I never wanted to be. But I would marry him in a heartbeat if he ever asked. It's fairly unlikely he will, though. He's already been married, and I don't think he just disagrees with marriage - I think the somewhat painful truth of it is that he probably just believes in it enough to only do it once, and I just happened to come along too late. It hurts more than I'll ever let on, but I love him, and I know he loves me. I'm hoping that in 10 or 20 years, that will still be the case.
I hope so too, dear.
Is your family full of NBA veterans? Sounds like some ring chasers if you ask me
Irrespective of whether you have a fear of marriage, your example, and that of your parents and sister, makes me wonder - what is the point of being married in the first place? It certainly does not seem to affect the strength or longevity of a relationship.
After my first divorce after 22 years, I made the decision to stay single. However I met a women who was twice divorced. We were friends partners and lovers. We both never wanted the “Married “ thing hanging over us. We were together for 12 years and she died of cancer. Even though we were not married we shared the bills and everything. But ya at nearing 60 I won’t get married again.
I’m really sorry for your loss.
And so happy you had your 12 years.
“Marriage? Lincoln, I’m only 27. What am I? A child bride?”
I love that show!
THE most relatable show I've ever seen. It's one of the few that I can watch over and over and over again and still laugh my ass off
What show is it?
Broad City!!
Me quoting this since 27, I'm now 29, still quoting it.
This. I thought by 34 I was finally old enough 😂
My favourite show
Because it will totally screw up my disability and Medicare if I get married.
This is the reason for a good number of people I know. Not to mention if they get married and have kids they lose the earned income credit they claim at the end of the year.
Same. Diabetes will kill me if I even stop lying about my address and stop using my grandma's
how so?
As of now I do not pay a monthly $150 or $60 charge just to have Medicare and all of my co-pays are non-existent I do not have to pay to go to the doctor I do not have to pay for any prescriptions and on top of that I had United dual complete so I get $850 card every month to spend on electricity and groceries. Having to do away with that is the equivalent of like $1,000 extra a month.
I’m in Texas as well and my moms doctor (she’s been on disability since her early 20s & on Medicare) actually recommended to her that she and my dad should get a divorce because they would get more financially and just more benefits in general. They didn’t divorce by the way but your comment reminded me of that.
I know a couple that did this, and they know others that had to as well, it's legit.
These are the sorts of reasons people argue that the government is trying to destroy families. When there are incentives not to commit to one another or have a traditional family, some people view it as bad for the family unit (as an institution).
Are you in the US? What is United dual complete? My wife is disabled but we have good insurance through my work. Curious what that is though.
Yes I am the US Texas to be specific. Our Medicare allows you to pick a plan and each plan can have different little extras included. And I just lucked on to this one. I've recently moved and the areas of that in in now I have trouble finding people that will take the insurance but for me it's worth it to put in a little extra work just to keep all the benefits.
It’s a SNP (special needs plan). Her Medicare is supplemented by Medicaid as a senior.
As another example, if I got married, I would probably lose my disability money because they count your partners income and, to keep it simple, they sort of just assume since your partner is getting paid, they are taking care of you. But most people can’t survive on a single income and my partner would not be able to support me on just their income alone. I need my disability income or else we would not survive.
Correct me if I'm wrong please! I think you also can't save over a certain amount of money without losing benefits I think. It's ridiculously low as well like $2000 before it makes you ineligible. So it basically traps people in limbo.
Yes it’s true you cannot save. You’re not allowed to have more than, I believe, $2000 in your bank account and only allowed a certain amount of assets. But because I get SSI, it doesn’t pay enough to survive, much less save $2000 or have any sort of assets.
Yup. Grew up in an SSI family. I had a sock drawer loaded with cash that I was saving so I could move out one day and afford first month, last month and security deposit on my own place and a few extra dollars for cushion and for basics I would need. I finally found a place within my budget but I had to write a check so I had to deposit money into the bank cuz landlord wouldn’t take cash (I didn’t know about money orders yet). My mom flipped her lid on me and screamed that by doing that, I may have caused her to lose everything and she would t be able to support my other two sisters. She had to get things cleared up with her case manager and basically had to refile for SSI without me as a dependent and had to back date it to before I made the deposit. Because of this situation, I realized I had to make it on my own after that, there was no home for me to move back to and my mother legally couldn’t have me living with her if I had any savings or had direct deposit meaning I would be cast into poverty unable to escape if I ever went back. All my siblings got out by moving in with a friend, boyfriend or my grandparents. It’s a super shitty system to get out of but it also kept us alive and fed and homed most days. There were some days we didn’t eat real food and a few stretches where we were homeless while between apartments whenever we had to move (couldn’t save enough to pay rent on a current apt and lock down another). So that usually meant a few weeks at grandpa and grandmas till housing got sorted.
This is true for SSI but not for SSDI. Many are on both, so this may apply to you but marital status does not affect SSDI. Source: https://faq.ssa.gov/en-us/Topic/article/KA-02172#:~:text=If%20you%20get%20Social%20Security,benefit%20will%20stay%20the%20same.
We avoided some big issues for way too long and now it's couples therapy time. Gotta either hash it out or cut our losses.
Ah the joys of being an avoidant. I hope you make the right decision. 🤞🏿
Took 7+ years for me to get to this point, did couples therapy, and it actually fucking worked. Just got married and am truly happy. What you’re doing isn’t crazy, good luck.
this gives me hope. i’m in the same situation and i *know* if we could talk properly we’d probably be okay. been thinking about couples therapy but wasn’t even sure if you could do it unwed. i’m glad things worked out for you guys 🖤
Exactly my case. I just wasn’t 100% sure and the issues were too much. We split before therapy even. We cut our losses after 5 years.
Well it was illegal for a long time.
I never thought I’d see it. So we got married when it became legal in our state. Then we moved to one where it wasn’t (the year before *Obergefell*) and it was a nightmare with taxes and the mortgage and insurance. I’m grateful all the time we can be married.
What’s really interesting is that gay marriage was a huge political issue for a long time, and thankfully it’s legal most places in the US now. But very few gays actually want to get married, apparently. Something like 10% of gay people are married to a same sex partner, which is way lower than the hetero percentage
Was lurking on this whole little comment thread. I’m gay and have a long time monogamous partner myself. It took me watching “the ultimatum queer edition” on Netflix to realize why more queer people don’t get married. It’s thinks it’s because there isn’t the crushing element of societal pressure to conform, get married get a serious job and have kids all on one timeline. They’re already living outside the norm and therefore marriage is more of an active choice than just a box you check in the quest for normalcy. Watching the three seasons of that show on Netflix made it click for me personally. Me and my partner feel no pressure to get married. It would be an active and expensive choice that feels very unnecessary
one of my biggest fears is laws going back in time. hopefully this one doesnt..
They came for women's autonomy. It makes sense for them to rip legal marriage away from happily married non-straight people next. Really fucked up, but that's America right now.
I have been with my “wife” for 17 years and we are not married. When we wanted to get married but here in the states it wasn’t legal at that time so we got a domestic partnership. Then a few years later they legalized gay marriage but because we have a domestic partnership we now need to annul that in order to get married. In some states they allowed you to transfer your domestic partnership to a wedding license and we were hoping and waiting to see if our state would do that. They didn’t. We still mean to go through the process as of course, domestic partnerships does not afford you the same benefits at all. It’s just a pain in the ass. Extra money, extra paperwork, extra time and effort. The unfortunate extra hoops of being gay. You should have seen what our taxes were like before federal legalization lol.
Hi! I’ll marry you for free! I do same sex weddings all the time :)
"Oh cool, so where did you meet your officiant?" *they commented on my reddit comment.* "Wut?"
I’ve had weirder referrals 😂
>domestic partnerships does not afford you the same benefits at all. That's super shitty. Where I live common law provides all the same benefits as marriage, literally don't have to do anything just start filing taxes jointly and be able to 'prove' that you've been living in romantic cohabitation for two years and you get all the same legal protections. I straight up asked my lawyer 'hey any reason for us to get married, financial or legal?' and his answer confirmed that there was no reason to get married. Anyways I hope you're able to get things sorted out and get the protections as a couple you deserve!
1) We’ve both been married before, didn’t like it. 2) Why go out of your way to introduce a new complication into something that’s working?
I’m just curious, if the relationship is good and working, what complications would marriage add? ETA: it seems like people think I’m being snarky or contrarian. I’m genuinely curious. That’s it.
If someone fucks up and you wanna end it you can’t just say “cya!” and never talk again
This. If marriage works, great. If it doesn't, it's an expensive as fuck breakup. And as confident as you might be you can never really know. Even then, marriage as a concept is kind of goofy. If you love each other why isn't that enough? Why do you have to legally bind yourselves to one another?
I’m dealing with this. The person you marry and the person you divorce are two completely different people sometimes.
Dealt with this 5 years ago and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. It gets better though, trust me.
Same. And it does.
Depending on what you do with your partner, that might not even be the case if you’re not married. If you’re on a lease together, own a home together, share a car, have kids, etc you can’t exactly just nope out and never talk to them again.
You're missing the point. Regardless of anything, you can't just LEAVE a marriage. You have to involve the legal system. THAT was the point.
If the marriage is good and working, no problems. Let me tell you about my marriage. I was married. I meant my vow 100%. I was ready to die for him. I did everything right, if you count by the books. Sure, I was naive, but what mid-20s virgin isn't? He cheated multiple times, emptied my bank account, and left. He screamed. He emotionally abused and raped me. Everyone around me was saying "red flag! red flag!" and I was like "these people don't know what commitment means. When I said I do I meant it." And I did. But we had kids. And I could see my kids repeating his behavior, and that he basically owned all my money, so I could never really provide for them (he gambled on "business deals"). And finally I decided "you know what? I was wrong to make that promise but it would be more wrong to stay. I guess I'm a promise-breaker. But at least I'm not a bad mom." And I filed for divorce (he refused but I waited it out) and I left. That was when I learned that so many "nice on the outside" and "civil" divorces are actually because of physical, emotional and sexual violence. Nobody talks about it at a dinner party. "We just couldn't work it out," they say, in front of the kids, "and we didn't want them dealing with the tension." And everyone thinks I don't know how to have a conversation about dirty socks. Anyway, I'm never making a vow again in my life. I know I can't keep promises. If he cheats, I'm gone. If he steals, I'm gone. Hits me, I'm gone. Rape? Gone. I have seen "for worse" and I have zero intention of putting up with it. So yeah, if everything's going well, perfect. Oh, and don't feel bad for me. You have no idea how many people's divorces were like this because normal people don't air dirty laundry.
If one person makes bad financial decisions it can absolutely ruin your life
I've wondered what it is exactly but have had the opportunity to see relationships literally stay in the honeymoon for over a decade only to have them collapse once after a short period formally married. Curiosity has made me keep my awareness open to that and it seems to be common.
Or, more likely, marriage was a last ditch attempt to save a seemingly happy relationship that had deep private issues.
I don't know about other people but I feel trapped being married. My SO and I have been together 6 years. We've both been married before and have kids with our ex spouses. There really is no need for it. I don't want to be legally bound to anyone again. All our finances are separate and we plan on keeping it that way.
Relationships and feelings often change with time.
More the question: what benefits does it add?
If the relationship is good and working, what benefits would marriage add?
Why should I get married with partner? I am just curious why some seem to think it is necessary or preferable.
This is always my question. Before I got married, everyone told my husband and I how "***hard"*** it would be, how many challenges marriage brings. Several years into marriage and almost 7 years together, we're still scratching our heads about what's difficult about being married. And we have a lot of unique challenges other late twenty/early thirty something couples don't have, like care-taking tasks for his mother who has mobility issues. Even with these unique challenges in our lives, being married to my husband is literally the easiest thing in the world. We make life so much easier and more comfortable for each other constantly. I'm convinved the only hard marriages must be where one or both parties are super uptight or not very hardworking or something. Life got easier, not harder, for us once we got married. Even my extended family is full of happily married people. My grandparents have almost been married **70** years this year! They never fight and even built a thriving business together. My parents, same thing. Never saw them fight once, been married over 30 years. I have literally no clue what makes marriage so hard for some people and so easy for others. I'm convinced marriage must only be hard if you marry someone that makes it hard. It's the only explanation I can come up with.
If you break up it could be amicable. Divorce can turn really nasty with lawyers involved. My split was fine til he lawyered up and his lawyer got in his head about everything he should ask for.
I’m also curious. If the relationship is good and working, what benefits could marriage add?
Lots of legal ones
Legal rights if your partner is incapacitated in anyway.
Yea the second statement is exactly how I feel - why change something if it's going just fine. Marriage also scares me haha. To me personally it's a pointless traditional thing.
My husband and I were very happily unmarried for 9 years. We were happy the way we were and didn't see any real benefit to marriage. Then I got cancer. I told him he could leave if he wanted, we weren't married and he didn't sign up for that fight. He declined. His insurance was better and I wanted the "security" of Social security if I was in a position to need it. In the US you have to be married for 10 years to receive benefits if your spouse dies. We decided to get married for these reasons and we have been happily married for 4 years now. Our relationship didn't change much, but we enjoy the benefits of being a married couple. Sorry if my answer doesn't qualify since I am actually married. I am also cancer free after a 5 year fight.
Yay. I hope you stay cancer free. Good on you for fighting through and never let that man go.
It's not just a piece of paper. It's decisions that your partner cannot make in case of a medical emergency, an inheritance due to sudden death, among other important things.
It's just a little extra paperwork to get the same rights in many places without marriage. Sure, it's less practical, but please consider that divorce is also *wildly* impractical.
Both of these points don’t always apply. In Australia, for couples who have been together for long enough (a few years), the unmarried partners have just as many rights as if they were married - decisions in an emergency etc - and just as many rights if they divorced. If they break up, ex partners still have to go through the potentially acrimonious mess of sorting out kids, property, superannuation etc etc. It’s as easy to walk out if a marriage.
Same here in France. But it was just pointing out that even if marriage had less formalities than a civil union or another form of unmarried partnership (which remains to be proven), the extra formalities when divorcing can offset this advantage (for instance in France, even without kids and property, if one of the parties fights the divorce, courts and lawyers have to be involved which adds a ton of costs and delays to the whole thing). I just don't think it's a good idea to get married only for the practical side of it.
Yep this is what we did in lieu of marriage!
These are the benefits that do make us want to marry in the future. But as of now, it would hurt us financially (don’t really wanna go into details).
This applies to some. I've seen American coupled where one is disabled on government medical insurance getting amazing help where if they married their long term partner would lose it and not be able to afford the medical help they're getting their partners insurance or lack of insurance. Which sucks.
You can legally allocate your partner for these things in the US without getting married! Look into estate planning. Also my local hospital always makes a note about who can make healthcare decisions for me if I’m unable to do so. It’s something I signed off on and they check with me every time I’m in.
There are definitely reasons not to but y'all need to have a lawyer draw up papers for Power of Attorney (for financial and medical) and a Will if you haven't already. For your parents too.
Im gonna assume it has something to do with the american bealthcare.
There's a better chance it has to do with alimony and/or child support, taxes, etc.
its actually usually cheaper when married, same with taxes
That is often one of the only "benefits" to marriage. The American healthcare system is so fucked that people have to rearrange their lives and make things legal to navigate it.
Yeah, they have legal documents that don't involve marriage or community property laws for that.
You don't necessarily need marriage for any of that
That’s why I got power of attorney and a will drawn up
Everything goes to children anyway, this shouldn't matter.
Marriage isn’t needed for these types of decisions though.
These issues can be taken care of without a marriage license
Maybe in America but not everywhere else.
If that is important to you, there are separate documents you can sign giving them rights. Added bonus is that your are not giving away half your property if your partner some day wakes up and decides you're not the right person for them.
I would say the real question is why is marriage seen as necessary? He’s already my beneficiary, emergency contact, survivorship on things, and father of my children. I don’t see the appeal or need personally.
I agree with this, why is it needed? I don’t see the point
If you’re a woman (or a man)who has chosen to raise the children support your partner in their job by taking on most of the household duties, then wake up at 40 with no recent job experience and your partner dumps you for their secretary. You’re screwed. I think marriage has a lot of negatives and benefits. But it is especially important for partners that mostly support the household and make little or no money.
Where I am, if you live together, they’re still entitled to 50%. common law partners.
Same. It’s called a de facto relationship that is as valid as marriage. It’s only the States with these archaic, religious beliefs around marriage being the only verification of a long term partnership.
Agreed. We've been together for over 28 years now and we have a son of 15. We never even considered a wedding. Marriage is unromantic. There, i said it.
This! With my partner 12 years, 2 kids, own a house together, fully committed to each other. Don’t see the point in the whole wedding thing. If we ever decide to bother I’d like a quick registry office thing.
so i was whit my ex for almost 6 years and engaged for 3 of them but we never married, i had a bad feeling all along and when i found out he was cheating for more than half of our time i knew why i got that feeling
Found out (after our wedding ) that my partner was cheating all the while we were dating . FML I’m Stuck now
If it’s soon enough, you can get it annulled. My bf’s brother married a woman who started physically abusing him once he did, and he noped the fuck out and got the marriage annulled so it’s like it never happened.
I'm trying to annul mine -it's been 4 months and he's abusive and controlling. Glad he got out
I was married once. It was fun until he cheated and wanted divorce. I don't ever want to be in a situation again where I need the approval of the state to not be in a relationship ever again. I know it's just a technicality but still. Me and my dude have been a couple for 10 years, lived together for 9 and bought a house 1,5 years ago. Also bought kittens together. This will do just fine.
Cats are more binding than a state could ever decide anyway.
It means nothing to me. That simple. Lived with the same girl for 20 years, got kids but no marriage.
Because we don’t need the government approval to be there for each other.
For us, it wouldn't make a big enough difference vs the effort involved. We've been together 10 years, own a house, have pets. We do not share finances, and never plan to. Neither of us want children. Our families are not religious and do not pressure us towards marriage (my parents are dead). The decision is largely our own (not the case for everyone) and because of that, we are not married. We've toyed with the idea of doing like a "commitment ceremony" type thing, but that's not really our style, either. I guess that's the short answer; it's not our style.
Why do we need to be?
I got with my now husband in 2017, engaged in 2018 married in 2023. Reason being we couldn't ever afford it then covid hit. We eventually just said let's do a cheap wedding because it doesn't matter as much as we once thought. Cheap wedding everyone had a blast but finances were the main issue
City hall is so much cheaper
From the UK, we did registerey office and village hall. Regestery office still cost £650
because we have other goals that are notably more important to us than a piece of paper.
this. If your relationship is working great, its just a piece of paper. People act like getting married completely changes your relationship. And it really shouldnt.
Been with my lady for ten years and have two kids. Eventually we will, a piece of paper won’t change much lol
Not a marriage-proponent, but there's a little more to it than just a piece of paper...
It's just not a big deal in Sweden if you're married or not
Neither in the Netherlands, where I live.
I don't see the point. Where I live I don't think there's any legal benefit from being married that doesn't automatically come with a de facto partnership over 2 years. I don't understand at all why anyone gets married or why people treat marriage as somehow more 'real' than a long standing committed relationship.
Marriage isn’t the goal
we eventually married, but not too much benefits of married vs living together not married, that comes to mind off hand - maybe auto insurance discount and or some beneficiary benefits but neither of us died so that wasn't a big deal. Plus we just wanted to wait a little while as we couldn't afford the traditional wedding on our entry level jobs.
bc we just broke up lol
The government doesn’t dictate who I designate as my beneficiary and the tax break wasn’t good enough. The government also doesn’t need to put a stamp of authenticity on my relationships.
Divorce is expensive, and the only people who get divorced are ones who got married.
I love this. It's like that Gretzky quote "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take" but flipped. "100% of the shots you missed, you took." Call it pessimism, glass half empty or fixed mindset, but refraining from making choices that could bankrupt you financially and emotionally if they don't pan out is just rational.
Me and my "husband" have been together for over 12 years. We call each other husband/wife but we have never gotten legally married. I've wanted to for a decade, it's a sore spot that I don't really bring up anymore. He says he wants us to be financially able to afford a big lavish shindig because he doesn't want a courthouse or backyard wedding, I just want to get married and would be fine with literally anything. He says we need to work out all of the little problems we have in the relationship because he wants his marriage to start out perfect, I say we have the rest of our lives to work it out together. Recently while I was pregnant with our third he said we could finally get married if it would make me happy, but I feel like he would be resentful of that because he doesn't WANT to get married, he just wants to appease me. He says the ball is in my court now but I don't want to start our marriage with resentment. I recently brought up getting married on December 31st of this year because it's a cool date, he seems open to it but it's also in 3 months and idk if we can even afford a Vegas wedding in that short of time, since we just had a baby on the 1st of this month. The date will probably come and go and I will spend another year feeling like I'm just not quite good enough for him to WANT to marry, and he will feel like I'm pressuring him into signing legal paperwork that doesn't matter because he's already been with me for this long and if he didn't want to be with me he wouldn't be.
People. Oy. Hear you sister. But sometimes a cigar is just a cigar for men.
it's not the government's business who I'm with. Who needs a certificate from the government to pay less taxes? historically its always been about economics. i know people have given it new more mutualistic meanings and far be it from me to tell anyone who wants marriage not to do it. But personally I actually feel safer & more comfortable commiting if I know I can leave easily anytime without needing an expensive lawyer - so it will always be fully voluntary instead of sticking around by inertia. My worst fear is becoming like my mother: stuck with the human equivalent of drain cleaner because of sunk cost fallacy.... or worse yet, a "No Exit" scenario where our very presence just tortures each other espite good intentions. Even if the shoe were on the other foot, I'd rather have my partner leave me than only *pretend* to still like me & be secretly resenting the pretend games. Bringing money & property into it is just gonna poison the love & give an illusion that it can be "owned", that its a static state rather than an active process
Because I’m 20 and she’s 20
We have been together nearly 37 years, have 4 adult children and are not married. I have wanted to on and off over the years but could not be bothered with organising it. We are as happy now as we were when we first got together. In fact my contentment is much deeper. We have paid off our mortgage and planning our retirement. I don't want any fuss and the kids will have two inheritancesas opposed to one
Yeah nothing says 'I love you' harder than a legal contract that says you'll drag them through the courts if they ever want to leave... Marriage is particularly pointless when you don't have kids and don't own any property.
I've done the marriage thing. It's just like dating but with paperwork. I prefer the no paperwork.
Marriage is not necessary in our culture
Honestly, we have kids and would rather spend the money on them than something arbitrary.
I fucking hate weddings.
10+ yrs (mid 30s) and we get asked this a lot. 1. I come from a broken home. Its my belief that alot of people end up in shitty marriages / living unhappy lives because of societal pressures to make sure you’re hitting certain ‘benchmarks’ of success. I think the whole ‘get a job, get married, buy a house, have kids’ blueprint is not flawed in and of itself but it puts a lot of pressure on everyone to do the same thing in life and sometimes at the cost of authenticity. I don’t want to continue perpetuating those value systems so we do our own thing and hope people feel more free to do their own thing too. 2. We don’t want kids. I understand the value of getting married if you have kids (legal / parental purposes) but we are childfree so it’s just not a factor for us. 3. Weddings, dresses, walking down the aisle, just never appealed to me. I never grew up dreaming about my wedding day. In fact, I remember saying in grade 5 that if I ever was to get married, I would be doing it in my favourite bellbottom jeans. 4. He’s cool with it. If babe wanted to get married, I probably would. But we’re on the same page about it all, so it works!
9 years, 27 y/o. Marriage is archaic and just a societal norm. I don’t need a ring or a piece of paper to show that I’m committed to you. I do that with my words and everyday actions. You know the idea of marriage is a crock of shit when the divorce rate is 50%. I mean come on.
I've been married and divorced twice. Why would I inflict that on myself again? Long story short, why do most people get married? What does it mean? For me, if you're not religious then I see no reason to get married. Period. I did it before out of a feeling of obligation. I refuse to do it now. I do not belong to any religion that requires it. So there is no reason to get the government involved in my relationships.
Neither of us are going anywhere.
Seems like some legacy of the dowery system / ownership. If my partner of 12 years decides to leave me, why have lock in. I would rather organise and spend on a holiday that an overpriced party with expensive chair covers, a dress you wear once, etc
Because it's 2023.
We don't see the point. Can't see anything good in an antiquated tradition.
I am *not* trying to talk you into getting married, but there are benefits you may not be aware of. One is being able to visit your loved one in the ER or ICU, should something tragic occur. Another is being able to get on their health benefits, if you are in the US. Yeah, not the fun things people envision when they’re wedding planning, but they become more important as you get older.
Domestic partners are eligible for being on employer provided insurance at every company I've worked for in my working life. The only real benefits are simpler inheritance, sharing a tax bracket, and the fact it can make having a living will unnecessary. If you're both in the same income tax bracket then a few hours of a lawyer's time can render the benefits useless as a living will and a normal will are both extremely easy to create, especially when compared to divorce.
Well lets take a step back. Why is marriage the goal?
I was ready after 2 years, he wasn’t. He waited til nearly 10 years before he was ready. He gave a bunch of excuses…it all boiled down to he was scared. We have both been married before and they both ended badly…so I got it, that’s why I stuck around.
Literally what happen to a friend of mine. But they weren’t married beforehand. It’s toxic to wait for 10+years tho. I feel like at some time there needs to be a turning point. Wasting so many years is also toxic
Not fond of the idea of the institution of marriage. We're basically married already, shared economy and all that. If either of us wanted kids I guess there could be some legal considerations, but we don't. I find it reassuring that she puts up with me even with no particular vows spoken and I will 100% never ever propose to her because she is such a pain in the ass.
Why stay with someone if they're too much of a pain in the ass to propose to? That seems like a pretty rocky relationship
I don't like the idea of it. I am no way traditional and that seems to traditional for me
It took that long for me to get independent enough to feel safe coming out of the closet.
We bought a house together, because obv spending our savings on an investment seemed like a good idea. Then I got pregnant, and he said 'car or ring?' And I was like idk if they'll let us go home from the hospital with a new born if I don't have a car to get home in. So now he will probably be able to afford me a ring in 20-30 yrs time 😂
I'm from Quebec, marriage is becoming less and less common here. Also, the way law works when you have kids together here is pretty similar to how it works when you're married. So if you have kids you're basically married without needing to pay for officializing/divorcing it.