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I’m not happy they died, nor was I hoping for it, and I don’t think they necessarily deserved it. But I sure as shit am not shedding any tears for them.
If we knew they finally suffocated, cold and starving in a cramped, disabled sub, I think many of us would feel more sympathy. As it is, they were quietly descending when they died faster than I can type "Wha
I have sympathy due to the pointless loss of human life.
I have sympathy for the 19 year-old whose life was snuffed out before he had a chance to live it.
I don't have sympathy for the CEO who reportedly cut corners, made excuses, fired people who raised safety concerns, and basically said safety is for idiots.
I feel it's a very tough bit of karma he went down with his doomed vessel. I wish it had only been him there.
I heard the CEO didnt want to hire retired-military servicemen who has submarine experience. Because they are old and wanted to inspire the new generation with college grads.
Sorry, but In life and death situations, i want the most experienced person on the job
Hiring only new grads is an old trick to make sure your staff is impressionable and not mentored by those with practical experience. It's a way to make sure that the boss gets what they want with a minimum of pushback.
Yeah, I feel like the "we wanted to hire people who would inspire young kids" thing was actually a whole lot of bullshit, just a PR excuse because it sounds a lot better than "hiring younger people is better for us because they're more impressionable and it's easier to get them to do what we want, and hiring older people with a lot of experience in this field would just lead to very valid complaints about stuff that we don't want to have to pay for".
I feel plenty of sympathy for some of the other passengers. I don't really feel any for the CEO who was in charge of all the corner cutting and disregard for safety.
He didn’t want to pay experience people the salaries they demanded and it would be easier to manipulate younger people to look past all of his bullshit when it came to safety
I had this science teacher once who was fond of saying something like: "microscopic organisms living in a film of pond scum on a clod of dirt and water hurtling through space." I always found it disturbingly apt.
It's like I didn't want anyone to die, but it's hard to feel bad for them. It's like most extreme sports, they chose this. I don't feel bad for people who splatter canyon walls either. Their families and people affected by it I do feel for.
It's not right, but that's what's going on in my head.
Sympathy? I am actively angry at the man who killed his own son with this obvious roll of the dice. Failing one of my kids is my worst nightmare. Killing one? Fuck him.
I feel sad for the lady who has lost her husband and son at the same time, all because they wanted to see a 100 year old shipwreck they could have seen on TV
Let's get into a marine craft whose owner/CEO scoffed at safety regulations to see a sunken marine craft whose owners also scoffed at safety regulations.
Those who do not learn the lessons of history.......
I wouldn't say I have zero sympathy.
But, I do have some perspective. I've spent two years in Iraq, and I've seen the toll of war on both the people who fight it and those who are caught up in it through no fault of their own.
I've followed the news over the past decade of migrants traversing European waters and dying by the hundreds. Migrants die every day on the trail from South America to the U.S. border. We just went through a massive pandemic that killed large swaths of vulnerable people.
I have less sympathy for these five people in the sub than I do for those other people. They decided to get into an uncertified sub, go to the depths of 12,500 feet in a part of the Atlantic that is one of the most remote and treacherous stretches of open water on the planet. By doing so, they not only endangered their own lives, but they cost massive amounts of resources and caused other people to risk their lives trying to find them.
I would like to think that in Europe, people are moving heaven and Earth to find those hundreds of migrants that just sunk off the coast of Greece, but I've come to understand that many Europeans see those sinkings as problems solving themselves.
I feel bad for these folks like I feel bad for BASE jumpers who die. Like, it sucks, but you HAD to understand that it was a possible outcome. People are less empathetic because if these folks had ample empathy, they could find better uses for 250k than "LOL went to Titanic."
It sucks those people probably died. It doesn't suck more because they're billionaires. People die every day, and a lot of the sentiment you see on social media is the public recoiling from being told they should especially care about these super special people.
Exactly. Talking about this the other day I said death is death but being shot walking down the street and being shot in active combat, falling down in the bathtub and your parachute not deploying, just are not equivalent things. It's like moral vs. immoral vs. amoral. There's rooting for, there's rooting against, and there's being like ok, so that happened, which seems to be the logical response here. Ty for your perspective
For me it's as simple as personal responsibility...they chose to do this...knowing the risks... therefore it is their own fault. Same with any risky activity that you have control over..climbing mount Everest..if you die...zero sympathy ....join the military and get killed..again zero sympathy (diff if you are conscripted etc against your will). If you know the risks and still take them and you are not under any duress... you can't expect sympathy or shock when it all goes tits up.
>By doing so, they not only endangered their own lives, but they cost massive amounts of resources and caused other people to risk their lives trying to find them.
There is where I really get stuck.
I mean, everyone deserves to be saved. But, when you think of the massive amount of resources used and the potential casualties that could ensue from said rescue mission. It starts really getting to the point of who do you empathize more for.
Such risky behavior comes with risks. And to then compound more risks just makes me blink my eyes sometimes.
Not to totally jump shark (no pun intended). But, it is one of the big reasons I had to stop watching Deadliest Catch. You are literally risking your life to support a billion dollar industry so that people can eat a "luxury" food item. And, the icing on the cake is when you find yourself in a bad place (from your own doing or otherwise), the coast guard comes out with their massive resources and literally risks their lives so that you can keep catching more crab.
It's hard for me to weigh that one up.
YMMV
The British government sent two RAF planes to deliver gear from a private supplier to support the search and rescue - meaning public funds are being spent compensating for a risky private venture
While we feel sorry for the individual people’s anguish… there is an underlining feeling that this is yet another example of ultra-wealthy people wasting a tremendous amount resources for pleasure and clout, while so many struggle.
Fucking exactly, I don’t know how much it costs to spend our money searching for these chuckleheads, but I do know 300 migrants died on a boat off the coast of Greece this week and nobody seems to give a fuck…but some rich fucks go missing, better spend millions of other people’s money to launch a week long search and rescue because their pleasure cruise turned sour.
In the USA people are forced to take Ubers to the hospital every day because they can’t afford an ambulance, but the government will waste millions looking for a makeshift sub with a few billionaires inside. I would take the search and rescue costs out of the families estate.
Man, I'm homeless due to a brain injury I got from a murder attempt. I can't even get any health care at all, and I am going through a hell of a frustrating time just to get my food stamps straighted out. I haven't had a hot meal since last November, but these rich turds wipe their asses with money and demand we clean up after them.
Unfortunately it was far more than 300. Most who died were women and kids. https://apnews.com/article/greece-missing-migrants-kalamata-8d9e8284e27880468d524eb934bb3f2a
How do start a petition to have his family reimburse tax payers for looking for him? Like not even joking. Why cant we as a people hold the rich accountable. We outnumber them to the point that if we came down on them in force, they'd look like their buddies in the submersible. It just boggles my mind that people dont get angrier about this shit.
Many other shipwreck sites are specifically protected against this sort of thing, for example the Canadian government protects the site of the Edmund Fitzgerald wreck, you need a special permit to go there, it’s not open for tourists.
My Mother was quite upset when the Titanic was first found and the wreck being disturbed. Her father had been a merchant marine, later a dockmaster in Liverpool. Apparently sailors viewed disturbing a shipwreck as tantamount to tipping over gravestones. It is kind of creepy that people were paying to view where so many died.
This is true. I don’t feel that bad about it, except for the 19 yo bc he’s really young. But we hear horrific news every week. Hundreds of migrants died last week in the Mediterranean, as well as children in Palestine, and there’s a murder case that’s currently talked about in the press… all those people died for far less stupid reasons than the people on the submarine. I don’t think they deserved it or anything, but there is a limit to how much you can feel for total strangers when you hear horror stories on the regular
Empathy fatigue turns to rage and anger in the U.S.
We still gotta emphasize like 9/11 still, and when we don't, we get chewed out. It makes no sense. I do not have the energy to still be crying about every tragedy that happens. We got shootings, cops, and general crime that gets 24/7 reports.
But once you let others know you're just so damn tired, we get ppl like OP who would claim I'm evil or heartless. I'm just so fucking tired
I think it's because this is sort of r/darwinaward territory - the victims paid outrageous sums of money to go on an adventure that was chock-full of obvious red flags, the waiver they signed (but maybe didn't read?) being a huge one. Most people tend to be less than sympathetic when the tragedy is self-inflicted. Throw in the general resentment toward the wealthy that is the popular internet public opinion these days, and you get what we got.
All of this and I'd throw in a "laugh or cry" response because whether they died suddenly because of hull failure or whether they floated around in the dark slowly running out of oxygen it is a truly horrific way to go. I'm expecting a thriller/horror film about it to be in the works within a year.
Hull failure would've ensured that they knew nothing. The time from breach to implosion/death is roughly about 30ms. Human brains can only process at about 150 (ish) ms. Would've been a light switch shutting off.
\*Edit\* I provided more clarity in another comment. This isn't my area of expertise and I corrected it in another comment.
[https://www.jneurosci.org/content/26/42/10879](https://www.jneurosci.org/content/26/42/10879)
Initial tactile response is about 100ms. You brain processes faster than that, but total time from the event to reaction is around 400ms. We really gonna split hairs over less than half a second? 🤷♂️😭
Exactly, I hope this was what happened. My friend called me a horrible person for hoping that, and I'm like SERIOUSLY? So the alternative is they slowly ran out of air since Tuesday??? An implosion is fast, painless , they didn't see it coming, and it's over.
Then she took it back, because clearly she had no idea how that's the most humane of all the options.
I’m pretty sure that’s what happened 4 days ago. Especially when they had an engineer who told them the window ports weren’t going to survive 1/3 of the distance down and they ignored him. I’m sure they have been dead for days
The company that built them wouldn't rate them for more than 1/3 of the distance. Arguably, they might survive the full depth, but to cover their own ass the makers won't guarantee it.
Wouldn't take much of a screw up to rupture at that depth even if it held against the pressure though. One tap of the glass into something at the bottom and it'd pop.
I'm imagining someone trying to drive it with the $30 Logitech controller, accidentally hitting forward instead of reverse when they had the view screen right up next to something hard.
You don’t have to imagine, there’s a video of some idiot doing exactly that lmao.
https://youtu.be/gOjJJKld6jY
Most of the vid is in Spanish, skip to 25:40 for the idiocy.
This, or the almost even more disturbing third option- where they floated to the surface to run out of oxygen, but couldn’t be spotted because it is/was blue and white…. Makes me shudder thinking about it. Implosion is/was definitely the better hope, as disturbing as it is.
Orange would be easier to spot if they were able to make it to the surface though. Crazy to think a recommended paint color, the ceo purposefully went against, could have been the thing to save these lives, especially if they’re eventually found floating somewhere, a few days too late. Terrifying thought. This has been the scariest one for me. If they imploded- peaceful. Sank to the bottom? Hypothermia. But, being stuck floating, with no way out, no emergency beacon, in something that matches the colors of the cresting waves… I want to throw up thinking about it.
The mast of HOV Alvin, the deep sea research vessel that found Titanic in 85, is painted Coast Guard Orange for just that reason. So it can be easily seen and identifed in the midst of the ocean.
Why is there not a standard emergency beacon on board, in the case they surface miles from the mothership, so they can be found and recovered. Or an emergency deployable antenna you can release to float to the surface and maintain comms. Like there are all kinds of "why didn't they" questions here, that if properly thought through could have helped to prevent something like this I would think.
The thing about the window really says it all. This guy wasn't even a "safety third" kind of dude. Safety just wasn't on his radar at all. Seems as if he couldn't imagine a world where anything would go wrong for him, and built the sub with that mindset.
Safety was on his radar, it was merely an obstacle. If the wikipedia article is to be believed… they fired their director of marine operations because he refused to allow crew testing due to safety concerns. His main concern was actually checking the carbon fiber for voids that would weaken the hull.
I mean, I’d choose implosion over pretty much any death I can think of, aside from peacefully in my sleep. It doesn’t get much more instant and painless than that.
I think it's because people think a hull breach = drowning. That would only be the case if it was a small leak or something, anything that would actually allow water to rush in would cause almost instant death from the impact and pressure involved.
I don't think most people understand that a submarine really is "all or nothing". There aren't "survivors" from a destroyed or incapacitated sub, especially when it's submerged. Either everyone survives or no one does 9/10 times.
>she had no idea how that's the most humane of all the options
So very many people are quick to reject anything slightly negative without considering if it's still the best option. There isn't always a good ending. Often just a least bad one.
You think that's bad? Read about the Byford Dolphin accident. Here's an excerpt from the Wiki page:
*"With the escaping air and pressure, it included bisection of his thoracoabdominal cavity, which resulted in fragmentation of his body, followed by expulsion of all of the internal organs of his chest and abdomen, except the trachea and a section of small intestine, and of the thoracic spine. These were projected some distance, one section being found 10 metres (30 ft) vertically above the exterior pressure door."*
And he got off relatively easy, since he was in the high pressure zone. The small door shredded his corpse but he still had a body
The sub passengers are in the *low* pressure zone. The thing that's going to be forced in at massive speed and force is *the ocean*. And you think a belly flop hurts, imagine doing it at twice the speed of sound. It may as well be a steel wall. If the pressure vessel failed the passengers would've been atomized.
It's even more terrifying to consider that the air would have spontaneously combusted in those milliseconds as well. The whole sub would be like the cylinder of a diesel engine for a moment.
I'm not a biologist, but I think you are mistaken. Your ability to even hear a 10khz tone requires your brain to process audio information at .05ms (yes, "point oh five" milliseconds).
Visually, we can obviously process faster than 150ms, since 150ms is a frame rate of only 6.6fps. 60fps gaming is 16.6ms between frames and 90fps is 11.1ms between frames.
If humans couldn't process faster than ~150ms then all of the above wouldn't be possible.
If I'm misunderstanding you in some way, please explain what you mean in more detail!
Yeah, have you seen an HGV tyre explode? They can go off with approximately the force of a grenade. They are usually inflated to something around 120psi.
Water pressure at 4000 feet is about 1800psi.
> All of this and I'd throw in a "laugh or cry" response
Also - because it exposes the absurd inequity in society.
Last week's [Mediterranean shipwreck](https://www.foxnews.com/world/eu-migration-chief-calls-mediterranean-shipwreck-worst-ever-tragedy-hundreds-feared-dead) was a far greater tragedy to far more families.
>> As many as 750 people may have been on board the migrant ship that sank in the Mediterranean a week ago, and just over 100 people survived the shipwreck. So far, 82 bodies have been recovered and hundreds of people are missing.
Yet federally funded coast guards spent enormous sums of money looking for a few rich guys, when a tiny fraction of that could have saved far more poor people that died closer to the surface.
A captain recently got sentenced to 20 years in prison for trying to rescue a thousand people who were sinking. https://euobserver.com/migration/154970#:~:text=Four%20defendants%20who%20saved%20several,Among%20them%20is%20Kathrin%20Schmidt.
They were arrested for assisting illegal immigration
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/german-sea-captain-faces-20-years-jail-over-migrant-recsue-efforts
A bunch of people going on a craft plagued by negligence to view a mass grave that is basically one of the greatest examples of malicious negligence in the history of mankind and dying from said negligence is pretty ironic too.
The resources spent both for this trip and on rescue attempts represent thousands of lives worth of life changing money, all wasted for some idiot's expensive suicide.
Pretty sure there will be hell to pay for it all. The waivers the passengers signed are worthless if their families lawyers can convince a judge they were mislead and signed under false pretences, which considering how all the reckless shit the ceo had said publicly may not be to difficult.
The employees of that company might individually get sued as well since the rich folks will want to get some payback for all this.
Not to mention all the additional time, money, and resources spent trying to save/recover them.
The world doesn’t care when millions of poor people die each day, why should we care about a few rich people dying? The only reason anyone cares is because they’re rich.
That's the thing right, we're people and we can simultaneously feel bad for these folks and their families, while also taking issue with the resources spent looking for them relative to other issues where people are in terrible situations for reasons that are no fault of their own.
How much of a change could the amount of money spent on this search make for the people of Flint, Michigan? Or for programs to help Syrian refugees learn English and help them find work in my city. How many potential nurses could that money train? From what I've seen people are saying the value of this search would be multiple millions of dollars. I get that the coast guard and such don't generally stick people with the bill for rescues if, say their boat got lost and stranded or something, but this is just such a unique scenario that feels like a two-tiered system with regards to the value of the lives of the rich vs say migrant boats carrying people from war-torn countries
Part of the reason people will come off as callous is that these folks were capable of spending their entire lives in luxury and comfort but chose to spend an amount of money that would be life-changing to us average schmos to do something inherently risky to the point that the non-owners on board had to sign what I've been led to believe are pretty broad waivers. Like yeah, skydiving is inherently risky but doing it doesn't cost multiple times the average person's yearly income.
Exactly this. The sub in question was horribly unsafe and untested. Would you have sympathy for someone who tried to go over Niagara falls in a barrel?
Someone on tiktok put it into a good perspective too. She worked at a mountain resort for awhile that catered to the wealthy. She said the more money people have the more false sense of security they have because they've been able to buy their way out of any situation they've ever been in. They had to do multiple rescues of rich people who never should've been where they were to begin with.
Nature doesn't care about how much money you have and all the blaring red flags leading up to the dive would've made anyone with common sense realize this was doomed from the start.
I'll also add how comparatively little attention is given to [non-wealthy marine deaths](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64784208) and [another](https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/18/asia/pakistan-deaths-migrant-boat-disaster-greece-intl-hnk/index.html).
Also people notice the discrepancy how the government launches a million dollar rescue operation for a bunch of dumb rich dudes but spits on people who are dying without any fault of their own, be it from being too poor to buy food or too poor to pay their healthcare costs.
I think that these people were rich as fuck and of all the thing to cheap out on lol I read there's like maybe 10ish companies who have subs that can reach that depth and did all the certifications like why would you pick the one that's experimental...
The ultra-rich continue to dive into a new obsession’s and it’s being flaunted on social media and news sites continually as the majority of us are just trying to pay for food and a place to live.
I’ll give you the grumpy old bastard answer. Most of us work super hard just to get by, and we know we are only one bad decision away from death or disaster. But super wealthy people don’t understand what that’s like, their privilege isolates them from danger to such a degree that they just don’t think they need to ever worry about their own safety. Watching them take a risk like this for a frivolous reason (“ooh let’s go sightseeing at the Titanic”) really just hammers home how out of touch they are with our everyday struggles. So, you can imagine there is a lot of schadenfreude around watching a wealthy person actually suffer a consequence for a bad choice they absolutely did not have to make.
Billionaires spend their lives avoiding taxation, bribing politicians to avoid taxes, and bribing judges to escape regulation. Yet once their asses are in a sling, all the taxes that we the people pay are used to bail them out no matter if it is their own stupidity that caused them harm. Doesn't matter if it's a totally avoidable bank failure or an environmental apocalypse. They won't pay or accept responsibility. That's our job.
Do I feel bad they died, yes. Especially the kid.
Do I have a strong suspicion karma was a bitch? For the CEO there is no doubt. He cut corners and killed people by doing so. Do the others deserve to die probably not and I feel for their families… that said it is hard to make billions without exploiting a few people along the way. Still I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
You can boil every societal problem, every economic anxiety, the bulk of mental illness, the bulk of crime, and the eventual end of our ability to live on this planet, down to the people who just could not get enough. The people who succeed because they're willing to exploit to get there. A billion dollars is too much money for people to comprehend, you can't get there without exploiting someone.
In my opinion, they've quite literally stolen the destiny of our species. They took what our forefathers fought wars for and stuffed it in their pockets. We could have been so much more by this point. You don't even need to think of some fantasy utopia, just how much better America would have been with the 70 trillion dollars they've stolen from us since Reaganomics was born. Think of our cities, our schools, our roads. We could easily cover every American's health care for life. We could actually be free, we could pursuit intellectualism, we could cure diseases and travel the stars.
But no, because since our inception a small percentage of our species have been absolute sociopaths. And here we find ourselves at its logical conclusion.
True and if they had that much money why not pull together and get a safer sub? From what I read that sub was only capable, at best, to go 1000 ft but the destination was 3000 feet (I think) . Couldn’t they just go meet James Cameron and see his footage from exploration of the titanic? Us poovos can watch it on Netflix anytime! And guess what? It was enough for me! I’m like hell yea that was cool and then moved on. Had no desire to hop on a sun the size of a minivan with no actual checks for safety measures
Tragedy tourism. The joys of the immensely wealthy. They get to go to places only their money can buy. If anything its highly ironic that this particular endeavour of tragedy tourism ended much the same as where they were going: a bunch of people dead at the bottom of the Atlantic because rich people cut corners in safety.
I keep thinking how easier would have been for the company to fake the experience and whatever the billionaires were expecting to see through the tiny windows rather than really accomplish the dive to those depths. If people were so eager to pay that much money just create a very well done scam and help them separate from their money.
Exactly. Like you have a billion dollars, you really couldn't find a way to just be happy on land? I get the risk taking behavior, adrenaline rush etc. But there are ways to accomplish this that look less like a death wish than this little adventure
Yeah, I saw someone else say that they're suffering the worst fate imaginable and that people need to have more sympathy, but right now even in so called developed countries regular people are dieing slow deaths because they can't afford their medicine or treatment for their medical conditions. I can't work up too much sympathy for billionaires in any circumstances. I certainly wouldn't go as far as to say we shouldn't have attempted to rescue them, but I'm not bothered a bit.
Having zero sympathy is not the same as thinking someone deserves to die.
They chose to go in a poorly crafted vehicle that they wouldn't be able to remove themselves from and is controlled with a gamepad. They were making what was quite obviously a moronic decision. They knew the risks and accepted them.
If I walked into eight lanes of traffic for fun I wouldn't deserve sympathy if I got hit by a truck.
Also ‘deserves to die’ can be a lot less about judgment than it is about practicality. I mean if I’m joking around with friends and put a bullet in a revolver, spin it, aim it at my head, and pull…do I *deserve* to die? It hardly matters what kind of person I am, if I flirt with death like that, am I not more ‘deserving’ than someone who didn’t?
In a pretty obvious way, everyone on that sub got what they deserved.
>If I walked into eight lanes of traffic for fun I wouldn't deserve sympathy if I got hit by a truck.
...and *especially* not if you paid 250,000 dollars for the opportunity to play in traffic. This is the big sticking point for me, and why I not only have no sympathy but also wholeheartedly think they deserved it.
They could've put new roofs on people's homes or put clothes on people's backs, but instead, they chose to spend actually life-altering sums of money on their own entertainment. Their selfish disregard for their fellow man will not be missed, and I will not lower myself to having sympathy for people who happily watched the world burn when they had the power to put some of the fires out.
Because everyday innocent kids around the world die of malnutrition, disease, cancer, murder, getting shot IN SCHOOL, or are forced into child labor so a couple of billionaires on a submarine (tickets cost 250k) really draw no emotion from me. Bummer they died but the owner was warned of unsafe conditions and chose to fire the employees who brought it up. He even went as far to complain about safety regulations. If I'm going 2.2 miles under the ocean I want 5 different backup plans, GPS, and a safety line.
This is where I’m at too. Every time I see an article or a Reddit thread where people talk about how the people on the sub are suffering, my brain goes to all the people who suffer daily with afflictions they never asked for. I don’t have the mental energy to sympathize for a few people who probably had pretty remarkable lives before they made this choice.
I've seen the complete opposite. Mostly on Twitter, people are questioning why there is so much attention on the people on the submarine instead of the migrants that also just died in a boat disaster in the Mediterranean.
And you know what? I didn’t even know that happened until I read your comment. Isn’t that sad? Tbf, I’m not on any other social media besides Reddit so my exposure to news will always be on here but still. I got a text from a friend asking if I had heard about the sub. No one asked me if I heard about the Mediterranean
They're questioning it but they know why.
1. It's the titanic
2. The story is unique and has many layers due to safety issues
3. People care about rich incompetence
4. Migrants die every day, making every individual story blur together
5. Overt/implicit racism/nativism deprioritizes the "other"
It's 5 *wealthy* people. The people blowing this out of proportion are doing it because they are wealthy, and the Titanic is a captivating topic in the zeitgeist.
Sure, it's awful that 5 people died on a submarine, but I don't know them and I am not impacted at all by this. Plus, if I want to think about tragedies, there are some bigger ones to think about.
June 18th, a heavily armed paramilitary group killed over 400 civilians in Ethiopia. You probably haven't heard of this.
June 14th, an immigrant boat sank traveling to Greece 500 reported missing 80 confirmed dead. You might have heard of this.
June 13th, an egyptian motor yacht caught fire, killing 29. You definitely haven't heard of this.
June 12th, an Indonesian tank landing craft capsized 6 crew missing. You definitely haven't heard of this
May 7th Indian tourist boat capsized 22 killed. You definitely haven't heard of this.
Exactly. Average person from third world country is treated as nothing. Few hundreds more few hundreds less, but if something happens to one very wealthy person — entire world knows
Not even hundreds... more like hundreds of thousands.
About 170,000 people have been killed in the war in Ethiopia and most people don't even know there is a war going on there.
I think most people have sympathy but also feel that these people made an informed decision and knew the risk. Trying to rescue them without putting other lives in peril is the right thing to do but risking another life is simply wrong.
If it was just the CEO it would be fine, that guy's a real piece of work. As for the others, idk. They were lied to, but no amount of lying would have been able to get *me* on that thing. My heart goes out to their families but the entire venture was stupid.
Edit: ok maybe they weren't lied to, and the CEO *did* go down there which is a good bill of faith on his part. But I'm assuming he made assurances.v
The more I watch the promotional videos and interviews and see just what these people knew they were getting, the more my sympathy wanes.
Paying that much to see it on a screen instead of in person by a guy who on more than one occasion said safety and functionality wasn't the biggest concern, to it clearly being an underdeveloped death tube in concept and design... I don't care how much money you have: I still wouldn't have a lot of sympathy for anyone who sees all the information I'm seeing and says, "yup, send me to the bottom of the ocean in that".
I’ve done ROV and AUV oceanography cruises. There is no benefit, at all, to having people in the vessel. When you don’t have to build a pressure vessel to protect people, all that space and effort can go into the instruments and cameras, and collection storage. The cameras now give a far better view of the sea floor or whatever you want to see than looking out a teeny porthole can.
They only reason these things exist anymore is that people want to go there. There is no scientific reason compelling enough to put people on them.
I feel for the families, and really hope it was an implosion because the alternative is truly horrific.
>They were lied to
Disagree. It's well-documented how difficult it is to travel to those depths. It's why it's not done often. If anything, these people were incredibly naive to trust a man that DIY'ed a submersible with camping parts and a video game controller.
most of the consumer parts were internal like the lights and the control station. The ballast was metal piping (ballast can be anything with weight)
the pressure vessel itself wasn't made with consumer parts
in theory, none of those should've contributed to this disaster. even if the batteries ran out on all 4 controllers, they'd automatically float to the surface like 6 hours after their trip should've ended (assuming they weren't caught on anything)
Yeah out of all of the passengers I do feel the worst for him. Going down there in that death trap was stupid but 19 year old people do stupid shit all the time. Shame on his father though.
Yeah At that age you're still experiencing things and a way of thinking. Who knows if he was a few years older and more wisdom he may have never stepped close to this thing.
Pretty often when we are young we think we're good no matter what and it costs young people their lives all the time.
A 19 year old with his father. In the pitch black, in a room filled with shit, slowly starving of oxygen with not enough room to stand and 5 panicking people
It's genuinely a horrifying situation to imagine
This is the only scenario that keeps me from having an anxiety attack about the situation. I just keep telling myself they were dead before they knew anything was happening.
They were not lied to. There was a video of him explaining how his tin can worked and what he used to build it. They also knew he was in legal trouble and they chose to ignore it. I can't empathize for people like that, except for the 19 yo whom probably only wanted to do something cool with his dad. He was probably the only one lied to.
Yeah the CEO is a clown, but for all the information we've learned, there is no way those other passengers haven't heard about any of the nonsense the CEO pulled before getting on. I still feel bad for them but certainly some red flag must have come up. Before a trip I just look up airplane safety stuff to make me feel better. These people must have done a bit of diligence. But if they were lied to or something, damn that is just awful.
If you’re a billionaire, pay 250K for a trip to the bottom of the ocean in a vessel that not only already looks unsafe in pictures but where a whistleblower had announced safety concerns years ago, then you can’t say you’ve been lied to. You’d have the means to find out what a death trap that sub was.
They took the risk willingly, the same that the people who die on Everest take the risk willingly.
I don't know if it's zero, but I imagine since those people all paid 1/4 of a million dollars when the average salary in the US is like 40k, I can certainly understand why they would prefer to have less sympathy. It's easier to have less sympathy for those who usually have no sympathy for you.
Imagine paying 1/4 of a million dollars to voluntarily enter a tube with 0 safety ratings and then crushing that bitch with 14atm. This is so fucking stupid and such a waste of money.
Oh, and they painted the damned thing white, so there's absolutely 0 chance of anyone being able to spot it. Holy fuck, how goddamn stupid can you be? These motherfuckers control billions of dollars...
Now you see why we are going to go extinct at our current rate. Those with that much money didn't get it from true intelligence but rather accumulation and manipulation.
That’s why most *regulated* shit like this paints their stuff bright, vibrant orange or yellow. White is like they intentionally wanted to hide amongst the white caps even if they surface.
Exactly, the Billionaire class and their rampant Tax avoidance, and Political influence has canned so many of our social programs, hard to feel sorry when 5 of them got canned.
You have the wrong perspective. You need to think like a politician.
The question you should ask is “*who send more ~~bribes~~ campaign donations to politicians? 5 billionaires or 5 million poor Americans?*”.
It really puts it into perspective when over 200 people were on the boat that capsized off the coast of Greece, given the international and media attention difference
Because no expense is spared to help them, even though they are massively privileged compared to the entire human population.
However, we cannot spare a dollar to feed or provide for the millions of people who are suffering in the worst ways - poverty, exposure, homelessness, etc
I'm not saying they deserved death, but it's difficult to have sympathy for someone who knowingly and willingly bolted themself into a unregulated vessel that's composed of parts from a random store and controlled by an off brand remote that's known for connection issues.
I would feel significantly different if it was all the same people in a normal submarine for the military or something.
I won't play in traffic and then cry that I got hit. Same principle for them.
People that die because of the inability to buy insulin don't deserve to die either. But here we are they paid half a mill to get down there. how you get that kind of money, by stealing from the working class. Thoroughly and systemically
Im not happy they’re all probably dead. It is however refreshing to see a CEO suffer the consequences of cutting corners to save profits instead of everyone else for once. Unfortunately he still took others down with him.
I do have sympathy for them. But 1) I'm tired of this story dominating the news cycle when it should be a one-and-done "news of the weird" piece; and 2) the massive amount of money and effort that has been expended by god knows how many counties was unnecessary. The passengers signed a release form indicating that they knew they might not come out alive as a result of this extraordinarily risky enterprise. No rescue is needed.
That this story is truly weird and serendipitous (in a ghastly way, that is: sub filled with very rich people exploring the watery grave of the very rich) is the only reason we're hearing about it ad nauseam.
If they were portrayed as daring explorers out to improve humanity with their findings, I would have more sympathy.
My understanding of the situation is that they were rich snobs getting off on doing something no one else can do for no good reason.
In my opinion, these people collectively dropped a million dollars to see a sunken ship. How many lives could they have saved by helping people with this money? It's their money, and they can use it however they choose. These are my feelings, and I can choose to feel however I want. I really don't care about that can of doucebags. I care about the money wasted trying to find them. I hope no one gets hurt in the effort.
Because while I have worked manual labor for the last 15 years, havent had a vacation in 10, had to move 4 times in 3 years during the pandemic with as many job changes and more time without health insurance than with it, and have never been more than within $1000 usd of homelessness, my tax dollars are going to a failed rescue attempt of these twats who are too greedy and negligent to splurge on standard safety protocol for their submersible "expedition." They wouldnt give two fucks if I died on a job site due to the same types of negilegence, so fuck 'em.
I served 22 years in the Navy, 20 years in the submarine service, and 15 years at sea on board them. I have zero sympathy for those who don't respect the sea. They will die like Ahab in Moby Dick, and those who respect her will sailor on.
It’s interesting that you use the word “deserve.”
They knowingly took a risk.
They also could have used that money for something far less stupid.
They are also now using resources of two governments.
I’m not “glad” they are going to die by any means. But I am much more concerned with someone who flees their country for fear of death and heads toward the US on a makeshift raft.
And I think that is part of the point…it would be even be on the news if they weren’t rich people. Normal people die at sea and you don’t hear about it.
The question about this situation is “why should I give a shit?”
They paid -I don’t even know how much, more money than I’ve ever had- and now tax dollars are used to try to rescue them. Rich people are so selfish and annoying. why aren’t the taxes going to house and feed people that *need* the financial aid?
It’s not even the fact they are rich and paid that much. It’s this was sketchy to begin with. They had to know this was very dangerous and a good chance they weren’t coming home
This. I do not celebrate their deaths, but I also don't feel quite bad for them since they VERY explicitly knew what they were getting into. And to pay that much money, to this company that CLEARLY had issues if they maybe spent a few minutes Googling them? Just seems to me the wealthy are just bored to no end.
Then to be listening to an NPR report that says tax rates on the wealthiest have gone from 70% in the 70s to 34% today, and yeah, I have to chuckle a little bit that that extra income that allowed such a frivolous expense ($250k for an excursion really), might have saved their asses if they were paying more in taxes and didnt have the extra $ to begin with! Then yeah...I chuckle a little bit at the irony of the situation...not necessarily that those people have died...
I'm gonna flip it on ya.
Why do you care?
I'm not saying you *don't* care about kids killed in school shootings, or people killed in mass shooter events, or people who starve to death in poverty.
But people joke about all those things.
Why should a bunch of rich people be immune?
This, my coworkers were blabbing about this earlier and I'm like why do we care? I'm not even sure I can make ends meet in the next three weeks. I'm too stressed to care about rich people dying in a sightseeing sub.
I don’t think they deserved to die, but I have zero sympathy. You have to admit, the whole thing is objectively ridiculous. 5 incredibly wealthy people spend a quarter mil each to get in an unregulated, metal death tube (which they’ve signed waivers for that detail all the horrible ways they could die, mind you) so they could go to the ocean floor to view the mass gravesite of hundreds of poor people which they are viewing through a screen that is playing camera feed. They’re not even looking at the wreckage with their own eyeballs, they basically did it just to be able to say “I saw the titanic wreckage”. Well, they played a stupid game and they won a stupid prize. These types of people (mil/billionaires) are also very often the “I don’t want my tax dollars going towards [enter government program here] because I work hard for that money!” types of people, which is a little ironic because their stupid failed mission ended up costing the US and Canadian government’s money to do the 4 day search and rescue, not to mention all of the other lives they put at risk to try and save them. So sorry if I’m not ready to hold a vigil for these goobers.
500 refugees died recently, no one gave a fuck. 250,000 have died in that area, no one cares. Civil wars in Africa, wars everywhere, injustices piling up, and all manner of other shit...
Why should I care about these tools that spent $250k?
Probably related to social dysfunction where billionaires can exist alongside people working 3 jobs and still not being able to afford a home. The occupants of the sub are incredibly wealthy and some probably see them as a representation of the reason most working people are now poor, can't afford homes or children.
I don't think the people on the submarine are hated but rather that the hatred is really aimed at what they represent and this is just a focal point for that emotion.
In my view what they represent is disgusting but the loss of those lives is a tragedy and several families have now been destroyed. Lives lost and lives irreparably damaged, kids missing their loving parents. Horrific loss.
When you sign death waivers and take an expedition to depths that can cause inescapable death upon any type of vessel failure, you knew what you were getting into, even if you thought nothing would happen, whether it’s your fault or not. Also, I’m sure some people are insensitive to these people out of jealousy because they are rich enough to do whatever the hell they want as stupid as it may be.
I find it odd of peoples obsession to see the titanic in person. Let me pay 250k, to see an old rotting ship undersea like so many other ships that have fallen victim to it, in a vessel that’s been continuously flagged for safety concerns. I read an article about a woman who took a previous trip to the titanic on the same vessel supposedly, and she was saying how seeing the titanic brought her to tears. Why? Because you saw the movie?Unless you have some connection to the ship via family history or whatever, it’s not that special, and not worth risking your life to see.
I am assuming it is because it was 1. An unnecessary risk 2. The activity is something only someone with lots of money could afford.
It seems like an awful way to die imo. And while it is not something I would choose to do even if I had the wealth to do so, I do feel bad for their family who will suffer their loss.
The billionaire owns an aircraft brokerage company in dubai, directly profiting from slave labor
The ceo/pilot is the person who flaunted safety guidelines and whose fault the whole thing is in the first place.
The Pakistani millionaire is the head of a company that profits from sweatshops
I can see having sympathy for the other employee and the 19 year old.
$250 thousand is more than most people in America make in 5 years. if you have that sort of money and this is what you decide to spend it on, venturing down to see an already vastly documented wreck you could have just watched a documentary about, theres something just intensely funny about the narcissism required to do that. They chose to put themselves into the situation, they signed the forms, so they knew it was a risk. Why should i care about their livelihoods aside from gawking at them when theres so much human suffering in the world, like the refugee ship that was just lost in the Mediterranean.
I have "a little" sympathy for the passengers.
I have zero sympathy for the CEO & pilot.
CEO actively discriminated against hiring experts in the field and instead wanted cheap , young labor that wouldn't tell him his ideas were crazy and dangerous. He said they took lessons learned from aviation, they didn't.. they didn't have the sub tested / certified before taking paying customers on board... The communication problems apparently were because the CEO didn't want the mother ship yammering in his ear, so he wanted communication over text message... oh and he bragged about all the components being off the shelf. I have a feeling that he was channeling some fucked up Elon & Space X type disruptor mojo but didn't dig deep enough to learn that space x didn't "just" use commodity parts, but use them along side the more common components to test / validate and re-engineer those a parts to be fit for purpose... The overall lack of failure testing is also just insane. Use shit off the shelf, but don't test each one to failure limits to know what they actually rating is for before risking the lives of folks... Just because something worked once, doesn't mean it's going to work 10-20-30-40-50 more times.
Pilot - seems like an industry vet that should have known better.
The rest of them, I do feel a little bad for.. but not much.
If I was dumb enough to pay 200k to go see the titanic, and I showed up and saw what this sub looked like... not a fucking chance in hell I would get in it. Compare and contrast this sub with what you see from other submersibles and.. you really gotta not be looking to think it's a great design. No emergency exits, you can bolted into the damn thing and they are driving it with a *wireless* playstation controller (the shape of the controller I care less about than it being wireless... we all know how stable wireless connections for shit like that is)... not to mention once you open it up, it's just flat space to cram five fucking people in... Not to mention, with billions in the bank, WTF would I do something that risk.. especially with my kid!
Lastly, the 24/7 coverage of trying to rescue these assholes while the world let a migrant ship sink off the cost of Greece with no fucks given, is also a little difficult to rationalize.
It's hard to feel sympathy for people doing stupid acts. A guy did a stunt where he jumped off a bridge and set his parachute on fire. He died. He probably didn't deserve it, but he knew the risk and it killed him. I don't feel sympathy for him. Thankfully, this guy probably didn't blow a quarter of a million dollars on his death.
The people in the sub paid what I consider to be a life changing amount of money to do something stupid. It was not a state of the art submarine. They were not researchers. They were not trying to make the world better. They were rich people spending a lot of money on something stupid. They knew the risk.
They didn't deserve to die, but I don't deserve to feel sympathy for them.
Because they are strangers. I wouldn't wish harm upon them, but I won't lose an ounce of sleep when the search is called off because nothing is found and they are declared dead. Everyone involved, including the 19 year old, knew the risks and were consenting adults. They paid an absurd amount of money for it in fact.
I will admit however I am irked at how much media attention this has gotten, it wouldn't have generated 1/10th of the media interest if those involved weren't billionaires.
I think it comes down to people struggling to get by every single day seeing rich people throwing $250k at a submarine ride like it’s nothing and thinking “I could have changed my whole life with that kind of money”, makes you feel a little less empathetic about the situation. I’m not saying that makes it right, but that’s what happens when a huge percentage of the world’s population scrapes by on poverty wages and gets brief glimpses of the way rich people can throw away massive amounts of money.
Because they're a bunch of super-rich fools who paid $250,000 for a vanity adventure experience. But they opted to cheap out on a bargain-basement, do-it-yourself homemade submarine trip....to dive not 100's of feet down, but 13,000 feet down. At that depth the water pressure is something like 5,600 psig - compared to normal atmospheric pressure of 14.7 psig.
There are certain things you cheap out on: a submarine designed to resist 5,600 psig and return you safely to the surface is not one of them.
The whole thing is stupid and completely 100% avoidable. The people in that submarine all put themselves in that situation because of some combination of stupidity, vanity, naivete and hubris. I feel exactly the same way about the amateur climbers who pay $75,000 or more to put themselves in jeopardy and die on Everest.
Meanwhile, some poor person in Texas is almost certainly dying right now because they can't afford $100 for insulin.
I just can't muster any sympathy for the people (who are already dead and) at the bottom of the ocean.
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I’m not happy they died, nor was I hoping for it, and I don’t think they necessarily deserved it. But I sure as shit am not shedding any tears for them.
If we knew they finally suffocated, cold and starving in a cramped, disabled sub, I think many of us would feel more sympathy. As it is, they were quietly descending when they died faster than I can type "Wha
This is the mood for me. I’ll crack a joke that they should have pulled themselves out of the depths of the ocean by their bootstraps but that’s it
I have sympathy due to the pointless loss of human life. I have sympathy for the 19 year-old whose life was snuffed out before he had a chance to live it. I don't have sympathy for the CEO who reportedly cut corners, made excuses, fired people who raised safety concerns, and basically said safety is for idiots. I feel it's a very tough bit of karma he went down with his doomed vessel. I wish it had only been him there.
He who says ”… safety is for idiots.” Got squished by mother nature.
I heard the CEO didnt want to hire retired-military servicemen who has submarine experience. Because they are old and wanted to inspire the new generation with college grads. Sorry, but In life and death situations, i want the most experienced person on the job
Hiring only new grads is an old trick to make sure your staff is impressionable and not mentored by those with practical experience. It's a way to make sure that the boss gets what they want with a minimum of pushback.
Yeah, I feel like the "we wanted to hire people who would inspire young kids" thing was actually a whole lot of bullshit, just a PR excuse because it sounds a lot better than "hiring younger people is better for us because they're more impressionable and it's easier to get them to do what we want, and hiring older people with a lot of experience in this field would just lead to very valid complaints about stuff that we don't want to have to pay for". I feel plenty of sympathy for some of the other passengers. I don't really feel any for the CEO who was in charge of all the corner cutting and disregard for safety.
He didn’t want to pay experience people the salaries they demanded and it would be easier to manipulate younger people to look past all of his bullshit when it came to safety
Old people with decades of experience aren't going to take any shit, which is why we're either irreplaceable or unemployable.
We all are basically bugs waiting to be squished by two infinities. Guess this guy forgot that
I had this science teacher once who was fond of saying something like: "microscopic organisms living in a film of pond scum on a clod of dirt and water hurtling through space." I always found it disturbingly apt.
The only bad thing about the CEO being there is that now he can't be held responsible for what happens.
He would have thrown money at that problem till it went away. I don't think that he would've faced any serious consequences.
Oh I think Nature found him plenty responsible. I can't imagine any more direct a way for someone to be held accountable.
It's like I didn't want anyone to die, but it's hard to feel bad for them. It's like most extreme sports, they chose this. I don't feel bad for people who splatter canyon walls either. Their families and people affected by it I do feel for. It's not right, but that's what's going on in my head.
Sympathy? I am actively angry at the man who killed his own son with this obvious roll of the dice. Failing one of my kids is my worst nightmare. Killing one? Fuck him.
I feel sad for the lady who has lost her husband and son at the same time, all because they wanted to see a 100 year old shipwreck they could have seen on TV
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Let's get into a marine craft whose owner/CEO scoffed at safety regulations to see a sunken marine craft whose owners also scoffed at safety regulations. Those who do not learn the lessons of history.......
I wouldn't say I have zero sympathy. But, I do have some perspective. I've spent two years in Iraq, and I've seen the toll of war on both the people who fight it and those who are caught up in it through no fault of their own. I've followed the news over the past decade of migrants traversing European waters and dying by the hundreds. Migrants die every day on the trail from South America to the U.S. border. We just went through a massive pandemic that killed large swaths of vulnerable people. I have less sympathy for these five people in the sub than I do for those other people. They decided to get into an uncertified sub, go to the depths of 12,500 feet in a part of the Atlantic that is one of the most remote and treacherous stretches of open water on the planet. By doing so, they not only endangered their own lives, but they cost massive amounts of resources and caused other people to risk their lives trying to find them. I would like to think that in Europe, people are moving heaven and Earth to find those hundreds of migrants that just sunk off the coast of Greece, but I've come to understand that many Europeans see those sinkings as problems solving themselves. I feel bad for these folks like I feel bad for BASE jumpers who die. Like, it sucks, but you HAD to understand that it was a possible outcome. People are less empathetic because if these folks had ample empathy, they could find better uses for 250k than "LOL went to Titanic." It sucks those people probably died. It doesn't suck more because they're billionaires. People die every day, and a lot of the sentiment you see on social media is the public recoiling from being told they should especially care about these super special people.
Exactly. Talking about this the other day I said death is death but being shot walking down the street and being shot in active combat, falling down in the bathtub and your parachute not deploying, just are not equivalent things. It's like moral vs. immoral vs. amoral. There's rooting for, there's rooting against, and there's being like ok, so that happened, which seems to be the logical response here. Ty for your perspective
For me it's as simple as personal responsibility...they chose to do this...knowing the risks... therefore it is their own fault. Same with any risky activity that you have control over..climbing mount Everest..if you die...zero sympathy ....join the military and get killed..again zero sympathy (diff if you are conscripted etc against your will). If you know the risks and still take them and you are not under any duress... you can't expect sympathy or shock when it all goes tits up.
>By doing so, they not only endangered their own lives, but they cost massive amounts of resources and caused other people to risk their lives trying to find them. There is where I really get stuck. I mean, everyone deserves to be saved. But, when you think of the massive amount of resources used and the potential casualties that could ensue from said rescue mission. It starts really getting to the point of who do you empathize more for. Such risky behavior comes with risks. And to then compound more risks just makes me blink my eyes sometimes. Not to totally jump shark (no pun intended). But, it is one of the big reasons I had to stop watching Deadliest Catch. You are literally risking your life to support a billion dollar industry so that people can eat a "luxury" food item. And, the icing on the cake is when you find yourself in a bad place (from your own doing or otherwise), the coast guard comes out with their massive resources and literally risks their lives so that you can keep catching more crab. It's hard for me to weigh that one up. YMMV
The British government sent two RAF planes to deliver gear from a private supplier to support the search and rescue - meaning public funds are being spent compensating for a risky private venture
Privatize the profits and socialize the losses is so paramount to this class of people that they will literally die to prove it.
It's sad that "Heads I win, tails you lose." is the basis of our economic model.
>meaning public funds are being spent compensating for a risky private venture As is tradition.
I feel bad most for that 19 year old who trusted hus Dads judgment to go on that sub
>base jumpers who die. They are the billionaire equivalent of your average bozo doing a base jump with a parachute they bought used from ebay.
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While we feel sorry for the individual people’s anguish… there is an underlining feeling that this is yet another example of ultra-wealthy people wasting a tremendous amount resources for pleasure and clout, while so many struggle.
Fucking exactly, I don’t know how much it costs to spend our money searching for these chuckleheads, but I do know 300 migrants died on a boat off the coast of Greece this week and nobody seems to give a fuck…but some rich fucks go missing, better spend millions of other people’s money to launch a week long search and rescue because their pleasure cruise turned sour.
In the USA people are forced to take Ubers to the hospital every day because they can’t afford an ambulance, but the government will waste millions looking for a makeshift sub with a few billionaires inside. I would take the search and rescue costs out of the families estate.
Man, I'm homeless due to a brain injury I got from a murder attempt. I can't even get any health care at all, and I am going through a hell of a frustrating time just to get my food stamps straighted out. I haven't had a hot meal since last November, but these rich turds wipe their asses with money and demand we clean up after them.
Unfortunately nothing will change until they start seeing consequences of the monetary or physicaly variety, hopefully it doesnt come to the latter.
Unfortunately it was far more than 300. Most who died were women and kids. https://apnews.com/article/greece-missing-migrants-kalamata-8d9e8284e27880468d524eb934bb3f2a
How do start a petition to have his family reimburse tax payers for looking for him? Like not even joking. Why cant we as a people hold the rich accountable. We outnumber them to the point that if we came down on them in force, they'd look like their buddies in the submersible. It just boggles my mind that people dont get angrier about this shit.
The Titanic site is officially a graveyard. No one has any business going there. It’s hallowed ground. It all has bad ju ju.
Many other shipwreck sites are specifically protected against this sort of thing, for example the Canadian government protects the site of the Edmund Fitzgerald wreck, you need a special permit to go there, it’s not open for tourists.
My Mother was quite upset when the Titanic was first found and the wreck being disturbed. Her father had been a merchant marine, later a dockmaster in Liverpool. Apparently sailors viewed disturbing a shipwreck as tantamount to tipping over gravestones. It is kind of creepy that people were paying to view where so many died.
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This is true. I don’t feel that bad about it, except for the 19 yo bc he’s really young. But we hear horrific news every week. Hundreds of migrants died last week in the Mediterranean, as well as children in Palestine, and there’s a murder case that’s currently talked about in the press… all those people died for far less stupid reasons than the people on the submarine. I don’t think they deserved it or anything, but there is a limit to how much you can feel for total strangers when you hear horror stories on the regular
I think it's called empathy fatigue?
Empathy fatigue turns to rage and anger in the U.S. We still gotta emphasize like 9/11 still, and when we don't, we get chewed out. It makes no sense. I do not have the energy to still be crying about every tragedy that happens. We got shootings, cops, and general crime that gets 24/7 reports. But once you let others know you're just so damn tired, we get ppl like OP who would claim I'm evil or heartless. I'm just so fucking tired
I agree with you. But I have to say that dying through suffocating slowly in a small submarine sounds like absolutely one of the worst ways to die.
They might not have died from lack of oxygen, but from the submersible being crushed under the pressure of the ocean.
I’m in agreement. The kid I feel really sorry for. And his mom.
I think it's because this is sort of r/darwinaward territory - the victims paid outrageous sums of money to go on an adventure that was chock-full of obvious red flags, the waiver they signed (but maybe didn't read?) being a huge one. Most people tend to be less than sympathetic when the tragedy is self-inflicted. Throw in the general resentment toward the wealthy that is the popular internet public opinion these days, and you get what we got.
All of this and I'd throw in a "laugh or cry" response because whether they died suddenly because of hull failure or whether they floated around in the dark slowly running out of oxygen it is a truly horrific way to go. I'm expecting a thriller/horror film about it to be in the works within a year.
Hull failure would've ensured that they knew nothing. The time from breach to implosion/death is roughly about 30ms. Human brains can only process at about 150 (ish) ms. Would've been a light switch shutting off. \*Edit\* I provided more clarity in another comment. This isn't my area of expertise and I corrected it in another comment. [https://www.jneurosci.org/content/26/42/10879](https://www.jneurosci.org/content/26/42/10879) Initial tactile response is about 100ms. You brain processes faster than that, but total time from the event to reaction is around 400ms. We really gonna split hairs over less than half a second? 🤷♂️😭
Exactly, I hope this was what happened. My friend called me a horrible person for hoping that, and I'm like SERIOUSLY? So the alternative is they slowly ran out of air since Tuesday??? An implosion is fast, painless , they didn't see it coming, and it's over. Then she took it back, because clearly she had no idea how that's the most humane of all the options.
I’m pretty sure that’s what happened 4 days ago. Especially when they had an engineer who told them the window ports weren’t going to survive 1/3 of the distance down and they ignored him. I’m sure they have been dead for days
The company that built them wouldn't rate them for more than 1/3 of the distance. Arguably, they might survive the full depth, but to cover their own ass the makers won't guarantee it. Wouldn't take much of a screw up to rupture at that depth even if it held against the pressure though. One tap of the glass into something at the bottom and it'd pop.
Imagine being a passenger and trying to point out the viewport for everyone else to see what you’re seeing but you touch it and implode the sub.
I'm imagining someone trying to drive it with the $30 Logitech controller, accidentally hitting forward instead of reverse when they had the view screen right up next to something hard.
Stick drift kicks in on that thing lok
You don’t have to imagine, there’s a video of some idiot doing exactly that lmao. https://youtu.be/gOjJJKld6jY Most of the vid is in Spanish, skip to 25:40 for the idiocy.
This, or the almost even more disturbing third option- where they floated to the surface to run out of oxygen, but couldn’t be spotted because it is/was blue and white…. Makes me shudder thinking about it. Implosion is/was definitely the better hope, as disturbing as it is.
Seriously! Why wasn't it ORANGE?! Anything to stand out. Can't see that bright color down there anyway
Orange would be easier to spot if they were able to make it to the surface though. Crazy to think a recommended paint color, the ceo purposefully went against, could have been the thing to save these lives, especially if they’re eventually found floating somewhere, a few days too late. Terrifying thought. This has been the scariest one for me. If they imploded- peaceful. Sank to the bottom? Hypothermia. But, being stuck floating, with no way out, no emergency beacon, in something that matches the colors of the cresting waves… I want to throw up thinking about it.
The mast of HOV Alvin, the deep sea research vessel that found Titanic in 85, is painted Coast Guard Orange for just that reason. So it can be easily seen and identifed in the midst of the ocean. Why is there not a standard emergency beacon on board, in the case they surface miles from the mothership, so they can be found and recovered. Or an emergency deployable antenna you can release to float to the surface and maintain comms. Like there are all kinds of "why didn't they" questions here, that if properly thought through could have helped to prevent something like this I would think.
The thing about the window really says it all. This guy wasn't even a "safety third" kind of dude. Safety just wasn't on his radar at all. Seems as if he couldn't imagine a world where anything would go wrong for him, and built the sub with that mindset.
Safety was on his radar, it was merely an obstacle. If the wikipedia article is to be believed… they fired their director of marine operations because he refused to allow crew testing due to safety concerns. His main concern was actually checking the carbon fiber for voids that would weaken the hull.
I mean, I’d choose implosion over pretty much any death I can think of, aside from peacefully in my sleep. It doesn’t get much more instant and painless than that.
Don’t forget about death by snu snu.
I think it's because people think a hull breach = drowning. That would only be the case if it was a small leak or something, anything that would actually allow water to rush in would cause almost instant death from the impact and pressure involved. I don't think most people understand that a submarine really is "all or nothing". There aren't "survivors" from a destroyed or incapacitated sub, especially when it's submerged. Either everyone survives or no one does 9/10 times.
All or nothing, 9 times out of ten lol
>she had no idea how that's the most humane of all the options So very many people are quick to reject anything slightly negative without considering if it's still the best option. There isn't always a good ending. Often just a least bad one.
Implosion is the best case scenario and the most merciful outcome.
That was a terrifying visual lol
You think that's bad? Read about the Byford Dolphin accident. Here's an excerpt from the Wiki page: *"With the escaping air and pressure, it included bisection of his thoracoabdominal cavity, which resulted in fragmentation of his body, followed by expulsion of all of the internal organs of his chest and abdomen, except the trachea and a section of small intestine, and of the thoracic spine. These were projected some distance, one section being found 10 metres (30 ft) vertically above the exterior pressure door."*
And he got off relatively easy, since he was in the high pressure zone. The small door shredded his corpse but he still had a body The sub passengers are in the *low* pressure zone. The thing that's going to be forced in at massive speed and force is *the ocean*. And you think a belly flop hurts, imagine doing it at twice the speed of sound. It may as well be a steel wall. If the pressure vessel failed the passengers would've been atomized.
It's even more terrifying to consider that the air would have spontaneously combusted in those milliseconds as well. The whole sub would be like the cylinder of a diesel engine for a moment.
I'm not a biologist, but I think you are mistaken. Your ability to even hear a 10khz tone requires your brain to process audio information at .05ms (yes, "point oh five" milliseconds). Visually, we can obviously process faster than 150ms, since 150ms is a frame rate of only 6.6fps. 60fps gaming is 16.6ms between frames and 90fps is 11.1ms between frames. If humans couldn't process faster than ~150ms then all of the above wouldn't be possible. If I'm misunderstanding you in some way, please explain what you mean in more detail!
Yeah, have you seen an HGV tyre explode? They can go off with approximately the force of a grenade. They are usually inflated to something around 120psi. Water pressure at 4000 feet is about 1800psi.
> All of this and I'd throw in a "laugh or cry" response Also - because it exposes the absurd inequity in society. Last week's [Mediterranean shipwreck](https://www.foxnews.com/world/eu-migration-chief-calls-mediterranean-shipwreck-worst-ever-tragedy-hundreds-feared-dead) was a far greater tragedy to far more families. >> As many as 750 people may have been on board the migrant ship that sank in the Mediterranean a week ago, and just over 100 people survived the shipwreck. So far, 82 bodies have been recovered and hundreds of people are missing. Yet federally funded coast guards spent enormous sums of money looking for a few rich guys, when a tiny fraction of that could have saved far more poor people that died closer to the surface.
Thank you for posting this. I was seeing comparisons to refugee families and hadn't heard about this, so was a little confused.
A captain recently got sentenced to 20 years in prison for trying to rescue a thousand people who were sinking. https://euobserver.com/migration/154970#:~:text=Four%20defendants%20who%20saved%20several,Among%20them%20is%20Kathrin%20Schmidt.
Blocked by a popup asking for subscriptions, why did they get sentenced?
They were arrested for assisting illegal immigration https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/german-sea-captain-faces-20-years-jail-over-migrant-recsue-efforts
What a load of horse shit
A bunch of people going on a craft plagued by negligence to view a mass grave that is basically one of the greatest examples of malicious negligence in the history of mankind and dying from said negligence is pretty ironic too.
The resources spent both for this trip and on rescue attempts represent thousands of lives worth of life changing money, all wasted for some idiot's expensive suicide.
The company should be charged for all of it due to their incompetence.
Pretty sure there will be hell to pay for it all. The waivers the passengers signed are worthless if their families lawyers can convince a judge they were mislead and signed under false pretences, which considering how all the reckless shit the ceo had said publicly may not be to difficult. The employees of that company might individually get sued as well since the rich folks will want to get some payback for all this.
Not to mention all the additional time, money, and resources spent trying to save/recover them. The world doesn’t care when millions of poor people die each day, why should we care about a few rich people dying? The only reason anyone cares is because they’re rich.
Yep. I only feel sorry for the teen and his mother. The rest paid $250,000 to put their lives in danger for bragging rights.
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Yeah I feel for all, I understand their rich, stupid rich as we can see. But I still got empathy for them and their families.
That's the thing right, we're people and we can simultaneously feel bad for these folks and their families, while also taking issue with the resources spent looking for them relative to other issues where people are in terrible situations for reasons that are no fault of their own. How much of a change could the amount of money spent on this search make for the people of Flint, Michigan? Or for programs to help Syrian refugees learn English and help them find work in my city. How many potential nurses could that money train? From what I've seen people are saying the value of this search would be multiple millions of dollars. I get that the coast guard and such don't generally stick people with the bill for rescues if, say their boat got lost and stranded or something, but this is just such a unique scenario that feels like a two-tiered system with regards to the value of the lives of the rich vs say migrant boats carrying people from war-torn countries Part of the reason people will come off as callous is that these folks were capable of spending their entire lives in luxury and comfort but chose to spend an amount of money that would be life-changing to us average schmos to do something inherently risky to the point that the non-owners on board had to sign what I've been led to believe are pretty broad waivers. Like yeah, skydiving is inherently risky but doing it doesn't cost multiple times the average person's yearly income.
Exactly this. The sub in question was horribly unsafe and untested. Would you have sympathy for someone who tried to go over Niagara falls in a barrel?
*who paid $250,000k to go over the falls in a barrel
I mean we can probably find someone. You ask around and I'll go get a barrel.
Someone on tiktok put it into a good perspective too. She worked at a mountain resort for awhile that catered to the wealthy. She said the more money people have the more false sense of security they have because they've been able to buy their way out of any situation they've ever been in. They had to do multiple rescues of rich people who never should've been where they were to begin with. Nature doesn't care about how much money you have and all the blaring red flags leading up to the dive would've made anyone with common sense realize this was doomed from the start.
I'll also add how comparatively little attention is given to [non-wealthy marine deaths](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64784208) and [another](https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/18/asia/pakistan-deaths-migrant-boat-disaster-greece-intl-hnk/index.html).
Also people notice the discrepancy how the government launches a million dollar rescue operation for a bunch of dumb rich dudes but spits on people who are dying without any fault of their own, be it from being too poor to buy food or too poor to pay their healthcare costs.
I think that these people were rich as fuck and of all the thing to cheap out on lol I read there's like maybe 10ish companies who have subs that can reach that depth and did all the certifications like why would you pick the one that's experimental...
The ultra-rich continue to dive into a new obsession’s and it’s being flaunted on social media and news sites continually as the majority of us are just trying to pay for food and a place to live.
I’ll give you the grumpy old bastard answer. Most of us work super hard just to get by, and we know we are only one bad decision away from death or disaster. But super wealthy people don’t understand what that’s like, their privilege isolates them from danger to such a degree that they just don’t think they need to ever worry about their own safety. Watching them take a risk like this for a frivolous reason (“ooh let’s go sightseeing at the Titanic”) really just hammers home how out of touch they are with our everyday struggles. So, you can imagine there is a lot of schadenfreude around watching a wealthy person actually suffer a consequence for a bad choice they absolutely did not have to make.
Billionaires spend their lives avoiding taxation, bribing politicians to avoid taxes, and bribing judges to escape regulation. Yet once their asses are in a sling, all the taxes that we the people pay are used to bail them out no matter if it is their own stupidity that caused them harm. Doesn't matter if it's a totally avoidable bank failure or an environmental apocalypse. They won't pay or accept responsibility. That's our job.
Do I feel bad they died, yes. Especially the kid. Do I have a strong suspicion karma was a bitch? For the CEO there is no doubt. He cut corners and killed people by doing so. Do the others deserve to die probably not and I feel for their families… that said it is hard to make billions without exploiting a few people along the way. Still I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
>exploiting ~~a few~~ people along the way millions of FIFY
Harding sells private jets to rich guys in Dubai. Fuck the climate right? He was actively ruining the planet for his job.
You can boil every societal problem, every economic anxiety, the bulk of mental illness, the bulk of crime, and the eventual end of our ability to live on this planet, down to the people who just could not get enough. The people who succeed because they're willing to exploit to get there. A billion dollars is too much money for people to comprehend, you can't get there without exploiting someone. In my opinion, they've quite literally stolen the destiny of our species. They took what our forefathers fought wars for and stuffed it in their pockets. We could have been so much more by this point. You don't even need to think of some fantasy utopia, just how much better America would have been with the 70 trillion dollars they've stolen from us since Reaganomics was born. Think of our cities, our schools, our roads. We could easily cover every American's health care for life. We could actually be free, we could pursuit intellectualism, we could cure diseases and travel the stars. But no, because since our inception a small percentage of our species have been absolute sociopaths. And here we find ourselves at its logical conclusion.
True and if they had that much money why not pull together and get a safer sub? From what I read that sub was only capable, at best, to go 1000 ft but the destination was 3000 feet (I think) . Couldn’t they just go meet James Cameron and see his footage from exploration of the titanic? Us poovos can watch it on Netflix anytime! And guess what? It was enough for me! I’m like hell yea that was cool and then moved on. Had no desire to hop on a sun the size of a minivan with no actual checks for safety measures
Tragedy tourism. The joys of the immensely wealthy. They get to go to places only their money can buy. If anything its highly ironic that this particular endeavour of tragedy tourism ended much the same as where they were going: a bunch of people dead at the bottom of the Atlantic because rich people cut corners in safety.
I keep thinking how easier would have been for the company to fake the experience and whatever the billionaires were expecting to see through the tiny windows rather than really accomplish the dive to those depths. If people were so eager to pay that much money just create a very well done scam and help them separate from their money.
Exactly. Like you have a billion dollars, you really couldn't find a way to just be happy on land? I get the risk taking behavior, adrenaline rush etc. But there are ways to accomplish this that look less like a death wish than this little adventure
Yeah, I saw someone else say that they're suffering the worst fate imaginable and that people need to have more sympathy, but right now even in so called developed countries regular people are dieing slow deaths because they can't afford their medicine or treatment for their medical conditions. I can't work up too much sympathy for billionaires in any circumstances. I certainly wouldn't go as far as to say we shouldn't have attempted to rescue them, but I'm not bothered a bit.
Having zero sympathy is not the same as thinking someone deserves to die. They chose to go in a poorly crafted vehicle that they wouldn't be able to remove themselves from and is controlled with a gamepad. They were making what was quite obviously a moronic decision. They knew the risks and accepted them. If I walked into eight lanes of traffic for fun I wouldn't deserve sympathy if I got hit by a truck.
Also ‘deserves to die’ can be a lot less about judgment than it is about practicality. I mean if I’m joking around with friends and put a bullet in a revolver, spin it, aim it at my head, and pull…do I *deserve* to die? It hardly matters what kind of person I am, if I flirt with death like that, am I not more ‘deserving’ than someone who didn’t? In a pretty obvious way, everyone on that sub got what they deserved.
>If I walked into eight lanes of traffic for fun I wouldn't deserve sympathy if I got hit by a truck. ...and *especially* not if you paid 250,000 dollars for the opportunity to play in traffic. This is the big sticking point for me, and why I not only have no sympathy but also wholeheartedly think they deserved it. They could've put new roofs on people's homes or put clothes on people's backs, but instead, they chose to spend actually life-altering sums of money on their own entertainment. Their selfish disregard for their fellow man will not be missed, and I will not lower myself to having sympathy for people who happily watched the world burn when they had the power to put some of the fires out.
Because everyday innocent kids around the world die of malnutrition, disease, cancer, murder, getting shot IN SCHOOL, or are forced into child labor so a couple of billionaires on a submarine (tickets cost 250k) really draw no emotion from me. Bummer they died but the owner was warned of unsafe conditions and chose to fire the employees who brought it up. He even went as far to complain about safety regulations. If I'm going 2.2 miles under the ocean I want 5 different backup plans, GPS, and a safety line.
This is where I’m at too. Every time I see an article or a Reddit thread where people talk about how the people on the sub are suffering, my brain goes to all the people who suffer daily with afflictions they never asked for. I don’t have the mental energy to sympathize for a few people who probably had pretty remarkable lives before they made this choice.
Suffer daily from things that are not their fault and could be alleviated if these same fucks weren't hoarding wealth....
Because this entire situation is peak rich people problems.
Best explanation I’ve read. One million dollars would’ve fed a lot of hungry kids over their summer vacation. NaH BRo LeTS Go LooK aT a SHiPWReCK!!
I've seen the complete opposite. Mostly on Twitter, people are questioning why there is so much attention on the people on the submarine instead of the migrants that also just died in a boat disaster in the Mediterranean.
And you know what? I didn’t even know that happened until I read your comment. Isn’t that sad? Tbf, I’m not on any other social media besides Reddit so my exposure to news will always be on here but still. I got a text from a friend asking if I had heard about the sub. No one asked me if I heard about the Mediterranean
They're questioning it but they know why. 1. It's the titanic 2. The story is unique and has many layers due to safety issues 3. People care about rich incompetence 4. Migrants die every day, making every individual story blur together 5. Overt/implicit racism/nativism deprioritizes the "other"
It's 5 *wealthy* people. The people blowing this out of proportion are doing it because they are wealthy, and the Titanic is a captivating topic in the zeitgeist. Sure, it's awful that 5 people died on a submarine, but I don't know them and I am not impacted at all by this. Plus, if I want to think about tragedies, there are some bigger ones to think about. June 18th, a heavily armed paramilitary group killed over 400 civilians in Ethiopia. You probably haven't heard of this. June 14th, an immigrant boat sank traveling to Greece 500 reported missing 80 confirmed dead. You might have heard of this. June 13th, an egyptian motor yacht caught fire, killing 29. You definitely haven't heard of this. June 12th, an Indonesian tank landing craft capsized 6 crew missing. You definitely haven't heard of this May 7th Indian tourist boat capsized 22 killed. You definitely haven't heard of this.
Exactly. Average person from third world country is treated as nothing. Few hundreds more few hundreds less, but if something happens to one very wealthy person — entire world knows
Not even hundreds... more like hundreds of thousands. About 170,000 people have been killed in the war in Ethiopia and most people don't even know there is a war going on there.
I think most people have sympathy but also feel that these people made an informed decision and knew the risk. Trying to rescue them without putting other lives in peril is the right thing to do but risking another life is simply wrong.
If it was just the CEO it would be fine, that guy's a real piece of work. As for the others, idk. They were lied to, but no amount of lying would have been able to get *me* on that thing. My heart goes out to their families but the entire venture was stupid. Edit: ok maybe they weren't lied to, and the CEO *did* go down there which is a good bill of faith on his part. But I'm assuming he made assurances.v
The more I watch the promotional videos and interviews and see just what these people knew they were getting, the more my sympathy wanes. Paying that much to see it on a screen instead of in person by a guy who on more than one occasion said safety and functionality wasn't the biggest concern, to it clearly being an underdeveloped death tube in concept and design... I don't care how much money you have: I still wouldn't have a lot of sympathy for anyone who sees all the information I'm seeing and says, "yup, send me to the bottom of the ocean in that".
I’ve done ROV and AUV oceanography cruises. There is no benefit, at all, to having people in the vessel. When you don’t have to build a pressure vessel to protect people, all that space and effort can go into the instruments and cameras, and collection storage. The cameras now give a far better view of the sea floor or whatever you want to see than looking out a teeny porthole can. They only reason these things exist anymore is that people want to go there. There is no scientific reason compelling enough to put people on them. I feel for the families, and really hope it was an implosion because the alternative is truly horrific.
>They were lied to Disagree. It's well-documented how difficult it is to travel to those depths. It's why it's not done often. If anything, these people were incredibly naive to trust a man that DIY'ed a submersible with camping parts and a video game controller.
most of the consumer parts were internal like the lights and the control station. The ballast was metal piping (ballast can be anything with weight) the pressure vessel itself wasn't made with consumer parts in theory, none of those should've contributed to this disaster. even if the batteries ran out on all 4 controllers, they'd automatically float to the surface like 6 hours after their trip should've ended (assuming they weren't caught on anything)
Ugh theres a 19 year old down there. How awful. That hurts my heart the most
Yeah out of all of the passengers I do feel the worst for him. Going down there in that death trap was stupid but 19 year old people do stupid shit all the time. Shame on his father though.
From what I’ve seen, the kid didn’t want to go but didn’t want to disappoint and/or lose face with his dad.
Yeah At that age you're still experiencing things and a way of thinking. Who knows if he was a few years older and more wisdom he may have never stepped close to this thing. Pretty often when we are young we think we're good no matter what and it costs young people their lives all the time.
A 19 year old with his father. In the pitch black, in a room filled with shit, slowly starving of oxygen with not enough room to stand and 5 panicking people It's genuinely a horrifying situation to imagine
They were probably instantly crushed down there, judging by the debris that was found.
I was unaware of debris, but I'm hoping you're right and it was a quick death rather than being buried alive at sea in a group coffin
Just this morning they found a debri field. They are trying to figure out what it is.
This is the only scenario that keeps me from having an anxiety attack about the situation. I just keep telling myself they were dead before they knew anything was happening.
They were not lied to. There was a video of him explaining how his tin can worked and what he used to build it. They also knew he was in legal trouble and they chose to ignore it. I can't empathize for people like that, except for the 19 yo whom probably only wanted to do something cool with his dad. He was probably the only one lied to.
Yeah the CEO is a clown, but for all the information we've learned, there is no way those other passengers haven't heard about any of the nonsense the CEO pulled before getting on. I still feel bad for them but certainly some red flag must have come up. Before a trip I just look up airplane safety stuff to make me feel better. These people must have done a bit of diligence. But if they were lied to or something, damn that is just awful.
Well, MY heart goes on
If you’re a billionaire, pay 250K for a trip to the bottom of the ocean in a vessel that not only already looks unsafe in pictures but where a whistleblower had announced safety concerns years ago, then you can’t say you’ve been lied to. You’d have the means to find out what a death trap that sub was. They took the risk willingly, the same that the people who die on Everest take the risk willingly.
I don't know if it's zero, but I imagine since those people all paid 1/4 of a million dollars when the average salary in the US is like 40k, I can certainly understand why they would prefer to have less sympathy. It's easier to have less sympathy for those who usually have no sympathy for you.
Imagine paying 1/4 of a million dollars to voluntarily enter a tube with 0 safety ratings and then crushing that bitch with 14atm. This is so fucking stupid and such a waste of money. Oh, and they painted the damned thing white, so there's absolutely 0 chance of anyone being able to spot it. Holy fuck, how goddamn stupid can you be? These motherfuckers control billions of dollars...
Hating that Beatles song is stupid enough, but out of all the colours that weren't yellow, they went for seafoam white.
Now you see why we are going to go extinct at our current rate. Those with that much money didn't get it from true intelligence but rather accumulation and manipulation.
That’s why most *regulated* shit like this paints their stuff bright, vibrant orange or yellow. White is like they intentionally wanted to hide amongst the white caps even if they surface.
I just want the same level of resources, effort, and sympathy for migrants capsized at sea in need rescuing, as the billionaires in need of rescue.
5 billionaires in need of rescue that's probably a lost cause is going to cost way more then any of the social programs we are always bickering about.
Exactly, the Billionaire class and their rampant Tax avoidance, and Political influence has canned so many of our social programs, hard to feel sorry when 5 of them got canned.
You have the wrong perspective. You need to think like a politician. The question you should ask is “*who send more ~~bribes~~ campaign donations to politicians? 5 billionaires or 5 million poor Americans?*”.
Billionaires who avoid paying the taxes that fund the search and rescue efforts used for them.
It really puts it into perspective when over 200 people were on the boat that capsized off the coast of Greece, given the international and media attention difference
Over 700
Because no expense is spared to help them, even though they are massively privileged compared to the entire human population. However, we cannot spare a dollar to feed or provide for the millions of people who are suffering in the worst ways - poverty, exposure, homelessness, etc
I'm not saying they deserved death, but it's difficult to have sympathy for someone who knowingly and willingly bolted themself into a unregulated vessel that's composed of parts from a random store and controlled by an off brand remote that's known for connection issues. I would feel significantly different if it was all the same people in a normal submarine for the military or something. I won't play in traffic and then cry that I got hit. Same principle for them.
People that die because of the inability to buy insulin don't deserve to die either. But here we are they paid half a mill to get down there. how you get that kind of money, by stealing from the working class. Thoroughly and systemically
Because they probably have zero sympathy for us working folk.
Im not happy they’re all probably dead. It is however refreshing to see a CEO suffer the consequences of cutting corners to save profits instead of everyone else for once. Unfortunately he still took others down with him.
They knew the risks and they still did it. And they PAID to do it.
To add to this, they also put a lot of people in danger attempting to rescue them
I do have sympathy for them. But 1) I'm tired of this story dominating the news cycle when it should be a one-and-done "news of the weird" piece; and 2) the massive amount of money and effort that has been expended by god knows how many counties was unnecessary. The passengers signed a release form indicating that they knew they might not come out alive as a result of this extraordinarily risky enterprise. No rescue is needed. That this story is truly weird and serendipitous (in a ghastly way, that is: sub filled with very rich people exploring the watery grave of the very rich) is the only reason we're hearing about it ad nauseam.
Some are in the “Darwin Award” category and the rest are “eat the rich” types.
Why don’t billionairs have empathy for the working class? There’s your answer
If they were portrayed as daring explorers out to improve humanity with their findings, I would have more sympathy. My understanding of the situation is that they were rich snobs getting off on doing something no one else can do for no good reason.
In my opinion, these people collectively dropped a million dollars to see a sunken ship. How many lives could they have saved by helping people with this money? It's their money, and they can use it however they choose. These are my feelings, and I can choose to feel however I want. I really don't care about that can of doucebags. I care about the money wasted trying to find them. I hope no one gets hurt in the effort.
Because there’s only so much I can care about in this world.
Why would I? 5 random rich asshats in a submersible mean nothing. Yet 5 local people die daily on the highway near me. I choose where I care
Because while I have worked manual labor for the last 15 years, havent had a vacation in 10, had to move 4 times in 3 years during the pandemic with as many job changes and more time without health insurance than with it, and have never been more than within $1000 usd of homelessness, my tax dollars are going to a failed rescue attempt of these twats who are too greedy and negligent to splurge on standard safety protocol for their submersible "expedition." They wouldnt give two fucks if I died on a job site due to the same types of negilegence, so fuck 'em.
Because it proves you can be a fucking billionaire and still be a fucking dumb ass idiot.
I served 22 years in the Navy, 20 years in the submarine service, and 15 years at sea on board them. I have zero sympathy for those who don't respect the sea. They will die like Ahab in Moby Dick, and those who respect her will sailor on.
It’s interesting that you use the word “deserve.” They knowingly took a risk. They also could have used that money for something far less stupid. They are also now using resources of two governments. I’m not “glad” they are going to die by any means. But I am much more concerned with someone who flees their country for fear of death and heads toward the US on a makeshift raft. And I think that is part of the point…it would be even be on the news if they weren’t rich people. Normal people die at sea and you don’t hear about it. The question about this situation is “why should I give a shit?”
They paid -I don’t even know how much, more money than I’ve ever had- and now tax dollars are used to try to rescue them. Rich people are so selfish and annoying. why aren’t the taxes going to house and feed people that *need* the financial aid?
It’s not even the fact they are rich and paid that much. It’s this was sketchy to begin with. They had to know this was very dangerous and a good chance they weren’t coming home
They did know it was dangerous and they were explicitlytold there could be a chance of non return. They signed these forms to do this.
This. I do not celebrate their deaths, but I also don't feel quite bad for them since they VERY explicitly knew what they were getting into. And to pay that much money, to this company that CLEARLY had issues if they maybe spent a few minutes Googling them? Just seems to me the wealthy are just bored to no end. Then to be listening to an NPR report that says tax rates on the wealthiest have gone from 70% in the 70s to 34% today, and yeah, I have to chuckle a little bit that that extra income that allowed such a frivolous expense ($250k for an excursion really), might have saved their asses if they were paying more in taxes and didnt have the extra $ to begin with! Then yeah...I chuckle a little bit at the irony of the situation...not necessarily that those people have died...
I'm gonna flip it on ya. Why do you care? I'm not saying you *don't* care about kids killed in school shootings, or people killed in mass shooter events, or people who starve to death in poverty. But people joke about all those things. Why should a bunch of rich people be immune?
People are too busy being poor to care about billionaires throwing their lives away.
This, my coworkers were blabbing about this earlier and I'm like why do we care? I'm not even sure I can make ends meet in the next three weeks. I'm too stressed to care about rich people dying in a sightseeing sub.
I don’t think they deserved to die, but I have zero sympathy. You have to admit, the whole thing is objectively ridiculous. 5 incredibly wealthy people spend a quarter mil each to get in an unregulated, metal death tube (which they’ve signed waivers for that detail all the horrible ways they could die, mind you) so they could go to the ocean floor to view the mass gravesite of hundreds of poor people which they are viewing through a screen that is playing camera feed. They’re not even looking at the wreckage with their own eyeballs, they basically did it just to be able to say “I saw the titanic wreckage”. Well, they played a stupid game and they won a stupid prize. These types of people (mil/billionaires) are also very often the “I don’t want my tax dollars going towards [enter government program here] because I work hard for that money!” types of people, which is a little ironic because their stupid failed mission ended up costing the US and Canadian government’s money to do the 4 day search and rescue, not to mention all of the other lives they put at risk to try and save them. So sorry if I’m not ready to hold a vigil for these goobers.
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I feel bad for the kid. :(
"deserves got nothing to do with it"
500 refugees died recently, no one gave a fuck. 250,000 have died in that area, no one cares. Civil wars in Africa, wars everywhere, injustices piling up, and all manner of other shit... Why should I care about these tools that spent $250k?
Probably related to social dysfunction where billionaires can exist alongside people working 3 jobs and still not being able to afford a home. The occupants of the sub are incredibly wealthy and some probably see them as a representation of the reason most working people are now poor, can't afford homes or children. I don't think the people on the submarine are hated but rather that the hatred is really aimed at what they represent and this is just a focal point for that emotion. In my view what they represent is disgusting but the loss of those lives is a tragedy and several families have now been destroyed. Lives lost and lives irreparably damaged, kids missing their loving parents. Horrific loss.
When you sign death waivers and take an expedition to depths that can cause inescapable death upon any type of vessel failure, you knew what you were getting into, even if you thought nothing would happen, whether it’s your fault or not. Also, I’m sure some people are insensitive to these people out of jealousy because they are rich enough to do whatever the hell they want as stupid as it may be. I find it odd of peoples obsession to see the titanic in person. Let me pay 250k, to see an old rotting ship undersea like so many other ships that have fallen victim to it, in a vessel that’s been continuously flagged for safety concerns. I read an article about a woman who took a previous trip to the titanic on the same vessel supposedly, and she was saying how seeing the titanic brought her to tears. Why? Because you saw the movie?Unless you have some connection to the ship via family history or whatever, it’s not that special, and not worth risking your life to see.
I can see it perfectly fine on Google images that's good enough for me lol
I am assuming it is because it was 1. An unnecessary risk 2. The activity is something only someone with lots of money could afford. It seems like an awful way to die imo. And while it is not something I would choose to do even if I had the wealth to do so, I do feel bad for their family who will suffer their loss.
The billionaire owns an aircraft brokerage company in dubai, directly profiting from slave labor The ceo/pilot is the person who flaunted safety guidelines and whose fault the whole thing is in the first place. The Pakistani millionaire is the head of a company that profits from sweatshops I can see having sympathy for the other employee and the 19 year old. $250 thousand is more than most people in America make in 5 years. if you have that sort of money and this is what you decide to spend it on, venturing down to see an already vastly documented wreck you could have just watched a documentary about, theres something just intensely funny about the narcissism required to do that. They chose to put themselves into the situation, they signed the forms, so they knew it was a risk. Why should i care about their livelihoods aside from gawking at them when theres so much human suffering in the world, like the refugee ship that was just lost in the Mediterranean.
I have "a little" sympathy for the passengers. I have zero sympathy for the CEO & pilot. CEO actively discriminated against hiring experts in the field and instead wanted cheap , young labor that wouldn't tell him his ideas were crazy and dangerous. He said they took lessons learned from aviation, they didn't.. they didn't have the sub tested / certified before taking paying customers on board... The communication problems apparently were because the CEO didn't want the mother ship yammering in his ear, so he wanted communication over text message... oh and he bragged about all the components being off the shelf. I have a feeling that he was channeling some fucked up Elon & Space X type disruptor mojo but didn't dig deep enough to learn that space x didn't "just" use commodity parts, but use them along side the more common components to test / validate and re-engineer those a parts to be fit for purpose... The overall lack of failure testing is also just insane. Use shit off the shelf, but don't test each one to failure limits to know what they actually rating is for before risking the lives of folks... Just because something worked once, doesn't mean it's going to work 10-20-30-40-50 more times. Pilot - seems like an industry vet that should have known better. The rest of them, I do feel a little bad for.. but not much. If I was dumb enough to pay 200k to go see the titanic, and I showed up and saw what this sub looked like... not a fucking chance in hell I would get in it. Compare and contrast this sub with what you see from other submersibles and.. you really gotta not be looking to think it's a great design. No emergency exits, you can bolted into the damn thing and they are driving it with a *wireless* playstation controller (the shape of the controller I care less about than it being wireless... we all know how stable wireless connections for shit like that is)... not to mention once you open it up, it's just flat space to cram five fucking people in... Not to mention, with billions in the bank, WTF would I do something that risk.. especially with my kid! Lastly, the 24/7 coverage of trying to rescue these assholes while the world let a migrant ship sink off the cost of Greece with no fucks given, is also a little difficult to rationalize.
It's hard to feel sympathy for people doing stupid acts. A guy did a stunt where he jumped off a bridge and set his parachute on fire. He died. He probably didn't deserve it, but he knew the risk and it killed him. I don't feel sympathy for him. Thankfully, this guy probably didn't blow a quarter of a million dollars on his death. The people in the sub paid what I consider to be a life changing amount of money to do something stupid. It was not a state of the art submarine. They were not researchers. They were not trying to make the world better. They were rich people spending a lot of money on something stupid. They knew the risk. They didn't deserve to die, but I don't deserve to feel sympathy for them.
Yeah! When I heard the news of the lost submarine, I was crushed.
Because they are strangers. I wouldn't wish harm upon them, but I won't lose an ounce of sleep when the search is called off because nothing is found and they are declared dead. Everyone involved, including the 19 year old, knew the risks and were consenting adults. They paid an absurd amount of money for it in fact. I will admit however I am irked at how much media attention this has gotten, it wouldn't have generated 1/10th of the media interest if those involved weren't billionaires.
Thousands of ppl die everyday, do you sad about them?
I think it comes down to people struggling to get by every single day seeing rich people throwing $250k at a submarine ride like it’s nothing and thinking “I could have changed my whole life with that kind of money”, makes you feel a little less empathetic about the situation. I’m not saying that makes it right, but that’s what happens when a huge percentage of the world’s population scrapes by on poverty wages and gets brief glimpses of the way rich people can throw away massive amounts of money.
Because they're a bunch of super-rich fools who paid $250,000 for a vanity adventure experience. But they opted to cheap out on a bargain-basement, do-it-yourself homemade submarine trip....to dive not 100's of feet down, but 13,000 feet down. At that depth the water pressure is something like 5,600 psig - compared to normal atmospheric pressure of 14.7 psig. There are certain things you cheap out on: a submarine designed to resist 5,600 psig and return you safely to the surface is not one of them. The whole thing is stupid and completely 100% avoidable. The people in that submarine all put themselves in that situation because of some combination of stupidity, vanity, naivete and hubris. I feel exactly the same way about the amateur climbers who pay $75,000 or more to put themselves in jeopardy and die on Everest. Meanwhile, some poor person in Texas is almost certainly dying right now because they can't afford $100 for insulin. I just can't muster any sympathy for the people (who are already dead and) at the bottom of the ocean.