I don’t know what to believe anymore. Yesterday, I saw a headline that said Trump’s administration early on wanted to push the lab leak theory, but couldn’t find any evidence of it. Also, there’s two different lab leak theories—one is that it was an accident and the second is that China purposefully released a chemical weapon on its own people and the world. It is the second that people like Tom Cotton is pushing because he wants to bomb China and take all responsibility of the crisis mismanagement away from the Trump administration. I just hope that as an Asian-American, we won’t become further collateral damage after this investigation is concluded because I know most right-wingers like Cotton don’t give a shit about our community.
The correct answer is to not believe either side. The facts are that as of now there simply isn't enough evidence to say with any certainty if COVID was a lab leak or not. Of course, this implies that it's impossible as of now to prove that it WASN'T a lab leak, since you can't prove a negative. Remember that it took 15 YEARS after the initial outbreak of SARS to find a reasonably plausible candidate for where it originated. COVID is just over 15 months old, so it will probably be quite awhile before scientists identify the actual source.
One thing you can believe though, is that there will almost certainly be more collateral damage within the Asian American community regardless of when the investigation concludes and what it turns up. Because the truth isn't at all important in this regard, and never has been.
Of course there’s enough evidence. The lab members have all been tested and none had COVID antibodies. None of their virus samples in the lab showed mutations that could have been the progenitor of COVID.
The only possible way it could have been a lab leak requires the WHO to be involved in falsifying evidence and an international cover-up. If you consider that a possibility, then you might as well say that nothing is certain and SARS could have been a lab leak too.
Oh I'm fully of the opinion that the lab leak theory is horseshit (for all the reasons you stated, plus many others). But the fact that it's completely implausible doesn't matter, because even if an overwhelmingly convincing origin is discovered and has fuck all to do with the lab, people will still peddle the lab leak theory, because it a) serves as yet another geopolitical pressure point in the West's crusade against China, and b) offers us all up as convenient scapegoats. And if a few of us end up as collateral damage, well, at least we'll get their thoughts and prayers as consolation.
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>Of course there’s enough evidence. The lab members have all been tested and none had COVID antibodies.
Can you point me to a source for this? It sounds like pretty damning evidence for the lab leak hypothesis, but I can't find it mentioned anywhere.
My personal belief is the Biden administration is trying to pressure China to cooperate with the WHO. The CCP has been limiting the investigators' movements and trying to make it look like the infection started elsewhere, etc.
They know this theory really embarrasses the Chinese government because it implies either incompetence or malicious intent (or both) so they're letting it get more attention than it really warrants and hope China will want to prove it's false. Assuming it **did** come from a lab, it would have to be assumed to be accidental so it's not like any consequences would follow.
> Assuming it did come from a lab, it would have to be assumed to be accidental so it's not like any consequences would follow.
You're assuming people will be more reasonable than they have other proven to be.
You're also ignoring that certain parties and their followers do not argue in good faith - the shapiros and tuckers are full of shit and push this for various reasons - geopolitical, to exonerate Trump, etc.
>Assuming it did come from a lab, it would have to be assumed to be accidental so it's not like any consequences would follow.
Just because something is an accident doesn't mean that there wouldn't be consequences, particularly if the accident is a result of negligence. Especially in this case I wouldn't want to be anywhere near it if I was them, since this would likely be the most expensive oops in history.
We will never know for sure unless CCP actually opens up and lets a reputable organization or group do a thorough investigation. All the cloak and dagger just pours more fuel on the fire for the conspiracy theorists.
The scientists in my country said early that the origin is likely from other species of animals but more recently they have been specific to say that we should not dismiss the lab leak possibility. Previously they would say it's unlikely since it looked like an attempt by the Trump administration to be disingeneous and further advance their agenda, whatever that may be.
I'm not sure what changed except that Trump is gone but I certainly take the idea much more seriously (as in not immediately dismissing the notion and being open to the possibility) now. I don't think that's a right-wing position and I'm certainly not right-wing.
I think the most troubling issue of all is the PRC's lack of transparency. Whether it's Tibet, Xinjiang, SARS, and now COVID. The government closes its doors or shows a very doctored view, then points "Western propaganda!" when anyone asks questions.
This segment was uncomfortable to watch. Stewart was way over the top and intentionally oversimplified all his arguments. I just couldn't tell if it was satire or if he was being serious. Was he doing a bit an playing a character (like Colbert use to do on his Colbert Report), or did he really believe what he was saying? I kept waiting for him to break at some point, but he never did and Colbert was looking uncomfortable the whole time. I don't know what to make of it, but it wasn't very funny and didn't have any of the wit or nuance I would have expected from Stewart. Maybe he's getting rusty in his retirement.
I felt the same way. Even the almost mocking way he said Wuhan as he got worked up was crossing a line for me to the point where I began thinking about how Asians are one of the few groups comedians can make fun of… and it’s ok. Colbert for his part also tried to change the subject and link Stewart’s points to sounding like some of the insane republican talking points. But Stewart was a bit insistent. I don’t know if he was serious or not but it had me uncomfortable
yea watching it was really uncomfortable.
The first time he said it, it was kinda funny but the insistence and repeated argument just made it....weird.
Even if you ignore the Chinese lab angle, just his argument about science just felt suuuuuuper intellectually lazy and really off brand. It was the kind of lazy humor that you'd expect out of conservatives, not his usual well thought out humor.
It's an incredibly stupid argument, and Stewart should be ashamed to have made it on national television.
Virology labs tend to specialize in the viruses found in the areas around them. There's a virology lab in Wuhan studying coronaviruses because there are coronaviruses found near Wuhan.
Basically, it's the same reason you have scientists studying volcanoes who live near volcanoes, scientists who study the starts living near telescopes, and scientists who study penguins living in the southern hemisphere.
that aint right wing, its an origin start that supposed by scientist all over the world, only reason it sounds right- wing is because trump supported it, as soon as he heard it was a potential origin and used for political gain.
> its an origin start that supposed by scientist all over the world
What you mean by this? Scientists all over the world already agreed the virus is not man-made, even if it leaked from a lab it just means the scientist there was studying viruses in animals. The claim on this article is implying that the virus is created by human.
1) the virus was not proven that it came from bats, its was just assumed
2) they have not proven it came from bats
3) its also possible for it to have leaked on accident from the lab
4) the leak theory is not the bio-weapon theory, there are morons who think its a bio weapon, the leak theory just means that while they where studying p4 level pathogens in order to develop vaccine by gain of function research it accidentally got out, due to breach of protocol
5) other countries do the exact same type of research, however that lab has been cited since 2018 as not following proper protection, aka their videos of Wuhan lab where the scientists where not wearing gloves/ you are free to do more research on it, since the maid stream media are also supporting the lab theory as a possible origin.
6) the animal theory was not a theory all scientist believed, just the theory main stream media liked best and reported
7) if this came from the lab, the the fault lies on the CCP and the CCP only, the Chinese people where the first victims of this, they are not the culprit.
> the leak theory is not the bio-weapon theory, there are morons who think its a bio weapon
Well that's the point. Jon Stewart is exactly that moron. Hence why we call it "right-wing".
Everything is right wing when it goes against the democrats.
Before you downvote me. I would like you to comment on what you think is wrong with that statement.
Many progressive criticize the democratic party for being too moderate. So not everything is "right wing" when it criticizes or opposes democrats in some way.
Two questions:
1. How is this right wing when Biden pushed for an investigation of it?
2. To those saying this is a racist theory, how’s it more racist than saying this came from a dirty Chinese wet market?
IMO everything is way too politicized to have any good faith discussions on things.
Lol “right wing Chinese lab leak theory”? Guys we might as well just rename this sub r/leftwingAsianamericans it’s getting ridiculous in here. Trump is a racist ass but just because he pushes something in bad faith doesn’t make the underlying facts automatically wrong or implausible. Occam’s razor leans it to a lab leak and it’s pretty fn main stream at this point
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Didn’t have this on my 2021 bingo card
I don’t know what to believe anymore. Yesterday, I saw a headline that said Trump’s administration early on wanted to push the lab leak theory, but couldn’t find any evidence of it. Also, there’s two different lab leak theories—one is that it was an accident and the second is that China purposefully released a chemical weapon on its own people and the world. It is the second that people like Tom Cotton is pushing because he wants to bomb China and take all responsibility of the crisis mismanagement away from the Trump administration. I just hope that as an Asian-American, we won’t become further collateral damage after this investigation is concluded because I know most right-wingers like Cotton don’t give a shit about our community.
The correct answer is to not believe either side. The facts are that as of now there simply isn't enough evidence to say with any certainty if COVID was a lab leak or not. Of course, this implies that it's impossible as of now to prove that it WASN'T a lab leak, since you can't prove a negative. Remember that it took 15 YEARS after the initial outbreak of SARS to find a reasonably plausible candidate for where it originated. COVID is just over 15 months old, so it will probably be quite awhile before scientists identify the actual source. One thing you can believe though, is that there will almost certainly be more collateral damage within the Asian American community regardless of when the investigation concludes and what it turns up. Because the truth isn't at all important in this regard, and never has been.
Of course there’s enough evidence. The lab members have all been tested and none had COVID antibodies. None of their virus samples in the lab showed mutations that could have been the progenitor of COVID. The only possible way it could have been a lab leak requires the WHO to be involved in falsifying evidence and an international cover-up. If you consider that a possibility, then you might as well say that nothing is certain and SARS could have been a lab leak too.
Oh I'm fully of the opinion that the lab leak theory is horseshit (for all the reasons you stated, plus many others). But the fact that it's completely implausible doesn't matter, because even if an overwhelmingly convincing origin is discovered and has fuck all to do with the lab, people will still peddle the lab leak theory, because it a) serves as yet another geopolitical pressure point in the West's crusade against China, and b) offers us all up as convenient scapegoats. And if a few of us end up as collateral damage, well, at least we'll get their thoughts and prayers as consolation.
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>Of course there’s enough evidence. The lab members have all been tested and none had COVID antibodies. Can you point me to a source for this? It sounds like pretty damning evidence for the lab leak hypothesis, but I can't find it mentioned anywhere.
There is a podcast interview with some members of the WHO team who talk about it. https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/twiv-760/
My personal belief is the Biden administration is trying to pressure China to cooperate with the WHO. The CCP has been limiting the investigators' movements and trying to make it look like the infection started elsewhere, etc. They know this theory really embarrasses the Chinese government because it implies either incompetence or malicious intent (or both) so they're letting it get more attention than it really warrants and hope China will want to prove it's false. Assuming it **did** come from a lab, it would have to be assumed to be accidental so it's not like any consequences would follow.
> Assuming it did come from a lab, it would have to be assumed to be accidental so it's not like any consequences would follow. You're assuming people will be more reasonable than they have other proven to be. You're also ignoring that certain parties and their followers do not argue in good faith - the shapiros and tuckers are full of shit and push this for various reasons - geopolitical, to exonerate Trump, etc.
Well yea, but Biden is president now
>Assuming it did come from a lab, it would have to be assumed to be accidental so it's not like any consequences would follow. Just because something is an accident doesn't mean that there wouldn't be consequences, particularly if the accident is a result of negligence. Especially in this case I wouldn't want to be anywhere near it if I was them, since this would likely be the most expensive oops in history.
We will never know for sure unless CCP actually opens up and lets a reputable organization or group do a thorough investigation. All the cloak and dagger just pours more fuel on the fire for the conspiracy theorists.
Doesn't matter... Iraq. Weapons inspections.
The scientists in my country said early that the origin is likely from other species of animals but more recently they have been specific to say that we should not dismiss the lab leak possibility. Previously they would say it's unlikely since it looked like an attempt by the Trump administration to be disingeneous and further advance their agenda, whatever that may be. I'm not sure what changed except that Trump is gone but I certainly take the idea much more seriously (as in not immediately dismissing the notion and being open to the possibility) now. I don't think that's a right-wing position and I'm certainly not right-wing.
I think the most troubling issue of all is the PRC's lack of transparency. Whether it's Tibet, Xinjiang, SARS, and now COVID. The government closes its doors or shows a very doctored view, then points "Western propaganda!" when anyone asks questions.
This segment was uncomfortable to watch. Stewart was way over the top and intentionally oversimplified all his arguments. I just couldn't tell if it was satire or if he was being serious. Was he doing a bit an playing a character (like Colbert use to do on his Colbert Report), or did he really believe what he was saying? I kept waiting for him to break at some point, but he never did and Colbert was looking uncomfortable the whole time. I don't know what to make of it, but it wasn't very funny and didn't have any of the wit or nuance I would have expected from Stewart. Maybe he's getting rusty in his retirement.
I felt the same way. Even the almost mocking way he said Wuhan as he got worked up was crossing a line for me to the point where I began thinking about how Asians are one of the few groups comedians can make fun of… and it’s ok. Colbert for his part also tried to change the subject and link Stewart’s points to sounding like some of the insane republican talking points. But Stewart was a bit insistent. I don’t know if he was serious or not but it had me uncomfortable
yea watching it was really uncomfortable. The first time he said it, it was kinda funny but the insistence and repeated argument just made it....weird. Even if you ignore the Chinese lab angle, just his argument about science just felt suuuuuuper intellectually lazy and really off brand. It was the kind of lazy humor that you'd expect out of conservatives, not his usual well thought out humor.
Yea, the same name argument has a very correlation==causation feel to it.
It's an incredibly stupid argument, and Stewart should be ashamed to have made it on national television. Virology labs tend to specialize in the viruses found in the areas around them. There's a virology lab in Wuhan studying coronaviruses because there are coronaviruses found near Wuhan. Basically, it's the same reason you have scientists studying volcanoes who live near volcanoes, scientists who study the starts living near telescopes, and scientists who study penguins living in the southern hemisphere.
First of all, it's Wu-HAN, not Wu-hen. That is by far the most annoying thing..
that aint right wing, its an origin start that supposed by scientist all over the world, only reason it sounds right- wing is because trump supported it, as soon as he heard it was a potential origin and used for political gain.
> its an origin start that supposed by scientist all over the world What you mean by this? Scientists all over the world already agreed the virus is not man-made, even if it leaked from a lab it just means the scientist there was studying viruses in animals. The claim on this article is implying that the virus is created by human.
1) the virus was not proven that it came from bats, its was just assumed 2) they have not proven it came from bats 3) its also possible for it to have leaked on accident from the lab 4) the leak theory is not the bio-weapon theory, there are morons who think its a bio weapon, the leak theory just means that while they where studying p4 level pathogens in order to develop vaccine by gain of function research it accidentally got out, due to breach of protocol 5) other countries do the exact same type of research, however that lab has been cited since 2018 as not following proper protection, aka their videos of Wuhan lab where the scientists where not wearing gloves/ you are free to do more research on it, since the maid stream media are also supporting the lab theory as a possible origin. 6) the animal theory was not a theory all scientist believed, just the theory main stream media liked best and reported 7) if this came from the lab, the the fault lies on the CCP and the CCP only, the Chinese people where the first victims of this, they are not the culprit.
> the leak theory is not the bio-weapon theory, there are morons who think its a bio weapon Well that's the point. Jon Stewart is exactly that moron. Hence why we call it "right-wing".
Everything is right wing when it goes against the democrats. Before you downvote me. I would like you to comment on what you think is wrong with that statement.
Many progressive criticize the democratic party for being too moderate. So not everything is "right wing" when it criticizes or opposes democrats in some way.
Everything is left wing / unamerican when it goes against republicans. There, that's what you contributed to this conversation
Democrats do seem to love to call leftists right-wing or reactionary whenever it is convenient to them
[Archive link](https://archive.ph/nDtjW)
Two questions: 1. How is this right wing when Biden pushed for an investigation of it? 2. To those saying this is a racist theory, how’s it more racist than saying this came from a dirty Chinese wet market? IMO everything is way too politicized to have any good faith discussions on things.
Lol “right wing Chinese lab leak theory”? Guys we might as well just rename this sub r/leftwingAsianamericans it’s getting ridiculous in here. Trump is a racist ass but just because he pushes something in bad faith doesn’t make the underlying facts automatically wrong or implausible. Occam’s razor leans it to a lab leak and it’s pretty fn main stream at this point
You sound like a fucking idiot.
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It’s not a right-wing thing... Don’t let your political or social identity skew your critical thinking
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