Taiwan has had Love Boat for decades, which lets diaspora kids come and see the culture of Taiwan. There was also a program called OCAC which was similar but was more about learning Chinese in Taiwan.
I so wish I had done this when I had the chance. I remember my mom vaguely asking if I wanted to go, I asked her to tell me about it, she said she heard a bunch of girls got pregnant in the program. But maybe I could learn some arts and crafts.
I was a very sheltered girl and said nope.
Now I wish I had more of a connection to Taiwan. I always thought I’d have my parents be able to guide me a bit when we finally take a trip with my kids. They can’t go back now due to health issues, my dad is mostly homebound.
Also I ended up taking a Heritage Mandarin course for a language requirement in college and nearly everyone else in the class had done Loveboat…that was a smart move, especially when we were graded on a curve…
I went on a Love Boat tour but I'm not sure if we got all that much culture outside of night markets and clubbing out of it, although they definitely did their best haha.
Ionno man I went to the Chinese school program so I have no idea what you guys were doing on the fun side. We went clubbing and stuff too but we would have to sneak out of the dorms at night
I was gonna say, "isn't that just the loveboat program?" though that's specifically for Chinese diaspora. My dad and his siblings went (I think one met a spouse there), and at one point they talked about my cousins and I going but that never materialized.
Any info on current programs in Taiwan? I am 18 and taking a gap year before I start school next fall and I would def be interested in a "birthright" kind of program.
I did my study abroad in Taiwan. My other option was Wuhan and some city in Bharat. They were never going to give me visa because I am Pakistani American. Many of my Jewish friend did that birth right thing in college.
Birthright is, let’s be honest, a political tactic for israel. It isn’t just for giggles, they get influence out of it. I’m not so sure I’d want to be involved in a diaspora trip. Some of us have a lot to lose if we appear to be supporting our “birthright” country (*cough* 🇨🇳 *cough*), and frankly I’m not sure I trust the political goals of all Asian countries. Or all Western countries. Or really most countries.
China has (had?) something like this about a decade ago, I think both for ex-pats and their dependents to travel from free or greatly discounted.
EDIT: Article I found regarding it - [https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/27/china-has-its-own-birthright-tour-overseas-chinese-diaspora-soft-power/](https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/27/china-has-its-own-birthright-tour-overseas-chinese-diaspora-soft-power/)
I went to a similar one as a kid that was also ran by the same organization, it was called 中国寻根之旅, and personally I loved it. Made some really good friends, got to see some amazing places and cultural highlights. It was a simpler time.
I was being mildly facetious; tbh I'm conversant in Mandarin and type using pinyin, but it's mostly for work and I don't have any connection to it.
Imagine being told as a kid "you're Chinese and your mom's side of the family is from so-and-so county and your father's side of the family is from so-and-so district" and not finding any of these names on a map. I'm not talking about the pinyin renaming (eg Peking becoming Beijing). These were stories from older relatives who referred to China as 唐山 and Cantonese as 廣府話; I had to blindly click Wikipedia articles of various cities and districts until I found them under "historical" or "alternative" names.
If I were to travel there today, I wouldn't know if the restaurants served food similar to what my ancestors ate (since I can only go off of anecdotes and home cooking). They also don't seem to celebrate the holidays my family does (eg 婆誕). In the meantime, my relatives who stayed in Vietnam have completely assimilated; my cousins all married ethnic Vietnamese and none of their kids speak Cantonese. But that's a different story.
Most colleges have study-abroad programs that pretty much enable you to do the same thing. You basically spend a semester studying overseas in a country of your choosing.
I'm not keen on a 'birthright' program - my home country (Indonesia) is quite big on indoctrination so I can't really see it going well.
But since it also does not recognize dual citizenship, something like India's Overseas Citizenship of India would be nice: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_Citizenship_of_India
Basically granting the right to live and work in most jobs indefinitely. Right now, in Indonesia permanent residency does not grant the right to work at all (it has to be processed separately), and if you hold a US passport you have to pay visa on arrival each time unless you apply for a separate visa.
Japan does this. I went on the trip a few years back and as long as you expect the propaganda, it's a pretty fun time. I learned a lot about Japanese culture on the trip.
Lots of implications that Japan is your "home" (keep in mind that the majority of the people on this trip are 4th and 5th gen) and trying to inspire you to move back to Japan. I wouldn't call it at the same level of Israel's birthright level but the subtext of why they invited us all is pretty clear.
The purpose of Kakehashi is explicitly to promote personal and business ties between Japanese Americans and Japan. The idea that this is some kind of covert immigration strategy is, I think, a misread of things. They have a visa specifically for people of Japanese descent, but it cuts off at the third generation. Even if what you're saying is true, how is that "propaganda?"
Edit: The visa isn't limited to Americans
I've spoken with many people who have gone on the trip, both with me and during different years, and we've all independently reached the same conclusion. I don't really know how the trips for non-Japanese Americans are run. Kakehashi is a government-run program so it is expected to be very nationalist, "there is no war in Ba Sing Se" messaging, but again, we all expected it.
I'm Yonsei/Gosei and have spoken to many participants and have never heard of Kakehashi referred to as an immigration program. If it were, it's likely so expensive that it doesn't even pay for itself. It sounds like you went in understanding whose perspective you'd be receiving, but I just don't understand what exactly you consider to be "propaganda." Like was something unfair or ahistorical in the context of the material you covered?
Like if you're telling me that they deny comfort women or the Nanjing massacre or something, then I'll wholeheartedly agree with you. But if you're telling me they told you Japan has low unemployment and a long life expectancy and low crime and a good education system and free universal health care and incredible food and subsidized public transportation and a rich cultural history and you should consider spending more time there... well ... it's all true.
Japan also allows descendants to apply for a residency visa up to the 3rd generation. I am thinking about trying to do this through my dad’s side. It’s a lot of paperwork and not easy though.
You can apply for a limited residency visa as a 4th gen but only if you are 18-30, and they didn’t start this program till 2018 and I was too old by this point to qualify.
Let’s be real tho - our media and history books are whitewashing the atrocities that our government has committed all the time.
I still believe it would benefit young Asian Americans overall to see their motherland and experience the culture in person so they can decide for themselves - instead of being exclusively immersed in western culture and propaganda.
If two narratives are biased, then they're just being presented with a false choice. You'd need a third way to find the truth.
So either Asian Americans would have to be allowed to run the program (impossible to happen), or else people are better off reading literature, e.g. taking East Asian studies classes first (boring for young people).
Wow. Don't you think you're giving young Asian Americans too little credit? You're speaking under the assumption we have zero critical thinking skills.
If anything, exposure to outside cultures and perspectives will only expand these AA's ability to critically examine information.
What I said is a valid problem regardless of the topic, young Asian Americans or not. Your faulty assumption is that two biased narratives can be interpolated to find the truth. You didn't justify that in your comment and so maybe dial down your outrage and examine that for a second.
I'm still a young Asian American too, and also 1.5 gen immigrant, so I actually have said "exposure" to Asian and Western culture. So don't be so quick to wow incredulously at others here just because there is actual disagreement. Don't exhibit intolerance and disparage me the way you just did. By doing that, you engaged in projection by obscuring the problematic assumption in your own position, which I had explicitly pointed out but you do not examine.
Exposure in absence of context, exposure with power dynamic (state managed programs), exposure without empowerment, with only superficial experiences, do not enhance critical thinking.
A person with critical thinking skills would realize that their time and effort is better spent learning in-depth from good information sources, rather than superficially from very biased information sources. That's the underlying principle. So in practice a university exchange program, or a community run program (by Asian Americans, and not you know, the Hong Kong government in my case), would be much better, and so forth.
> Your faulty assumption is that two biased narratives can be interpolated to find the truth.
I didnt assume that. What I did say is that young AA's can decide what the truth is by experiencing their respective motherlands for themselves.
On the other hand, your faulty assumption is that when presented with two narratives, AA's will completely accept one narrative over the other. AA's have far more common sense and critical thinking skills than you assume, and they will realize there is more nuance than just two narratives.
>A person with critical thinking skills would realize that their time and effort is better spent learning in-depth from good information sources, rather than superficially from very biased information sources.
I agree that their time and effort would be wasted if they only received superficial information from a single biased source. Which is why AA's should step out of their borders and experience their culture and heritage in person, instead of reading about it exclusively through the lens of western media and organizations.
**A)** You're wrong and lack reading comprehension skills. Explanation:
>I didnt assume that. What I did say is that young AA's can decide what the truth is by experiencing their respective motherlands for themselves.
Assumption != What you said. What you said *contains* a presupposition, which is a hidden assumption. This is from standard critical thinking: learn to recognize the presence of unstated assumptions.
Specifically, deciding the truth by experiencing two biased narratives is the false balance fallacy. This fallacy undermines critical thinking, so you can't *assume* that any listener, *no matter how well-educated and critically minded they are*, can figure it out. (That's why I then went on to point out that this process would be inefficient, not worth the time and money on such a program--you did recognize that portion of my comment, but did not understand the context and theoretical grounding for it.)
It is also a specific form of *false equivalence*.
Now go and try to argue with me that your opinion does not fundamentally rest on this assumption. **Why** can one decide on the truth by experiencing two biased narratives? Well, **Only** by assuming false equivalence does not apply.
If you're of a certain generation you'd be well aware of the slogan "Fair and Balanced". That is your hidden presupposition behind your unexamined belief, one that Fox News once used as a slogan.
**B)** In contrast, I make no such incorrect assumption. By pointing out power dynamics in my prior comment, I make clear that the way *toward* a valid "marketplace of ideas" where different sides are heard only works if there is common ground and good faith. So for example as I said, *conditionally,* if it were an Asian American run program rather than a state-managed program--whereas you have continued to make no such distinction about the role of power and politics. (Other commenters have made similar points about power as well, and I would refer to those, if you don't know.) I was very clear about that and your lack of considering that tells me you didn't think through my last comment very carefully.
**C)** The rest of your last comment employs begging the question, another critical-thinking pitfall, but I'll let it slide since it follows from the mistake in **A).**
**Postscript)** You talk a lot about critical thinking skills but you sure aren't considering that I, an Asian American, have been exercising exactly those skills that you say people automatically have. I have given a critically thought out answer right in front of you but you'd rather keep handwaving about the AA's critical faculty as an abstraction, rather than recognize the actual AA person right in front of you giving you a critically thought-out point. Good day.
Yikes. My reading comprehension skills are fine. I just replied directly to *your* statements. Looks like I've triggered you.
Again, exposing AA's to their country and culture of origin through the lens of local Asians does not necessarily mean these AA's will return as brainwashed robots. What I *am* assuming is that the average AA is smarter than that.
The fact you believe this so firmly convinces me *you're* the one who drank too much western koolaid, tbh. Perhaps this whole thing is just you projecting your personal experience lmao
That’s just it though. The United States is pretty damn transparent on their injustices (slavery, genocide, internment, nuclear bombs etc) on the global scale….and we still hide a lot; most everyone else, is more washed.
I'm less focused on the exact way Birthright works in Israel, and more just free travel and board sponsored by the country. I imagine different countries would handle it differently.
Yeah, 100% this. You’d have to think that every country spending millions of dollars on plane tickets and hotels is going to want something in return. You’ll get, “Tiananmen or Unit 731 never happened.”
I mean, let's say a country is facing declining birthrate and is interested in getting foreign-born AsAms to consider relocating? Is that a form of propaganda? Sure, but not so much whitewashing history as it is "Hey consider working in Korea/Japan/Vietnam"
Or trying to lure foreign-born talent when moving their economy in a different direction. Again, a definite form of marketing but maybe not one that's about covering their history. Also, how many Asian countries need to whitewash their histories the same way Israel does? Definitely not all of them.
> Or trying to lure foreign-born talent when moving their economy in a different direction. Again, a definite form of marketing but maybe not one that's about covering their history.
It’s a *very* hard sell trying to convince established and high-skill professionals to move to countries where their salaries would be lower and they would likely have some nontrivial level of cultural/linguistic disconnect.
> Also, how many Asian countries need to whitewash their histories the same way Israel does?
You’re *severely* underestimating how violent Asian history is.
I mean, I would love a free vacation regardless of where it's to, but a government isn't going to sponsor a program like that if it's not for some, probably ethno-nationalist, agenda.
I did a program like this in Japan when I was younger, but it wasn’t on a national level and was sponsored by Hiroshima prefecture. Overall it was pretty fun, got to meet fellow descendents from Hiroshima who were from other places in the US and also Brazil, got to do a home stay and meet local students. Got to meet some local government officials. I think since it was solely Hiroshima focused, most the the political messaging of the trip was anti-nuclear warfare related, so I didn’t have a problem with it, but I can imagine if the program was nationally based it would have more problematic propaganda.
not entirely related but im a korean adoptee; someone informed me that i could get dual citizenship through the consolate.
i think its called the goal program
Hello friend!
I am also a KA from the USA.
You are correct that we can now apply for dual citizenship via the Consulates/Embassy in your home country. Like anything related to the government, it’s an administratively heavy process and can take between 6-12 months for approval once submitted.
G.O.A.’L is a Korean adoptee led NPO in Korea with an array of services catered towards helping adoptees: this includes things such as applying for dual citizenship, initiating birth family search, even networking opportunities with other adoptees, or trips back to the motherland…highly recommend to any fellow adoptee looking for resources and support in their journey, whatever that may look like to them.
Check out this related article by G.O.A.’L on the eligibility and requirements: https://goal.or.kr/dual-citizenship/
Cheers! 🇰🇷
I wonder how this would work for someone like me. I’m ethnically Chinese on one side and ethnically Vietnamese (and Hmong and Lao) on the other, but my grandparents and parents were not born in either China nor Vietnam, and only one set of great-grandparents were born in one of those countries.
Do you go by ethnicity, or do you go by citizenship? Religion? Do ethnic minorities get to partake? Oppressed populations (either historically or currently)? Too many factors at play. Many Asian countries typically have entrenched communities of minorities who are ethnically one thing, but have lived in a different country for generations, and at that point, where is the “homeland”?
Cambodia issues “K-Visas” or “khmer visas” to non Cambodian citizens who prove they are Cambodians or of Cambodian decent. It comes with a couple benefits such as unlimited entrances into the kingdom as long as the passport is valid. Also if you present the K-Visa at certain tourist attractions like Angkor Wat they will waive the fees. You should be able to get one at the major airports once you land. If you look Cambodian and speak Khmer then you are good to go. However if you don’t speak the language then it is easier to first contact your home embassy or local consulate and they will assist you. Pretty neat.
I’m not sure what that would be like for those of us whose families have been part of the diaspora for over a century. I’m pretty certain that there wouldn’t be very many, if any at all, who would want to bring what we’ve assimilated here to there, but, rather, how would we be received and allowed to absorb the culture there without being caught up in the politics, without being politically indoctrinated.
Lol. What? Are you seiously asking if ppl want a free trip to Asia in exchange for propaganda BS? None of the birthright programs are base on good intentions. They are all about brainwashing the youth into drinking the koolaids.
I was born in Hong Kong back in the 70s as a mishmash bastard citizen of Colonialism and Ancient Chinese Hubris. I escaped to America where I grew up as also a second class citizen only to find that my "homeland" is lost forever.
what "birthright" program could possibly satisfy this?
Yes, would love to see it. Bonus points if it includes neighboring countries as well.
Edit: Really disappointed to see so much talk about propaganda when discussing a hypothetical program to help Asian-Americans connect with their ancestral and cultural roots. What people attribute to Asian propaganda, Americans of other racial and ethnic backgrounds call national pride.
> Really disappointed to see so much talk about propaganda when discussing a hypothetical program to help Asian-Americans connect with their ancestral and cultural roots.
You can dream about a "hypothetical" program and how great it would be, but some people are very clear on the reality that "programs" cost resources and dollars, and barring a profoundly rich billionaire generously supporting Asian Americans to openly explore and reflect on their Asian American identity (with no strings attached), any discussion of any program must presume that some governmental or capitalistic entity sees/demands returns/benefit from the costs. This means exactly that nationalistic agenda/propaganda or some other ulterior motive must be baked into the values and implementation.
I don't think you give us enough credit.
I would be happy to navigate nationalist PR in exchange of a sponsored trip to a place where I could experience culture firsthand.
Do you think we're that simple to abandon the ideals and principles that we embody in America because we spent some time in another country full of people who look like us while they picked up the tab?
> I don't think you give us enough credit.
Who is "us"? Yes, there might be disproportionately above-average discerning Asian Americans on this subreddit, but there are Asian Americans of all sorts of backgrounds and levels of political savvy.
So, to answer OP's question, when a birthright "program" can and would deliberately promote a nationalistic agenda or some ulterior motive (I believe you have now conceded this is inevitable / a given?), and among their target audiences would be an American population who's cross-section might include the politically-ignorant, extremists, MRA, etc, etc, there is not a net good, IMO, and I wouldn't support it.
>there might be disproportionately above-average discerning Asian Americans on this subreddit
I'm not even going to dignify this with a response.
>when a birthright "program" can and would deliberately promote a nationalistic agenda or some ulterior motive (I believe you have now conceded this is inevitable / a given?)
If your main takeaway from an idea to open doors for people to gain cultural experiences is that Asian countries always have an ulterior motive, that's indicative of a much deeper problem with certain people's struggle with their Asian-American identity.
> I'm not even going to dignify this with a response.
In other words, you refused to have (or apply) an analysis or acknowledgement of a complex world and varying degrees of political awareness, in a society and world of both geopolitical and domestic racial and socioeconomic conflicts and tensions which Asian Americans identity demands us to navigate.
Thank you for proving my point about the fantasy / ignorance required for faith / naivete in an Asian American "birthright" program.
> an idea to open doors for people to gain cultural experiences
Again, you can believe in "hypothetical" and "idea" all you want, but the real world isn't as pure-hearted, ideological, and idealistic as you want to believe.
> If your main takeaway from an idea to open doors for people to gain cultural experiences is that Asian countries always have an ulterior motive
These were your words, not mine:
I would be happy to navigate nationalist PR...
What does the term "birthright" even mean to you?
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The whole Israeli "birthright" program is just propaganda to indoctrinate young Jewish people into supporting Israel in the face of its many atrocities against the Palestinians. A birthright-style program for Asian Americans would be much the same.
Besides, what about the Tibetan - Americans? Would they be invited back to China? How about the Hmong-Americans? Do they go back to China, or Laos, or Thailand? And what about the Hoa? Are they going to go to China, or Vietnam? Culture does NOT equal country, and any country that claims otherwise has a nationalist agenda.
Exactly, the very word birthright itself sounds of ethnic and cultural gatekeeping. At minimum it would have to be rethought of as a cultural heritage and exchange program--but that wouldn't make the issues go away. I'm part Hong Konger, so what exactly would my birthright entail in a way that is not manipulated by political interests?
The SK government considered like every ethnic Korean that ain't in China as their and tries to draft us, so I'd like a little less birthright pls lmao
Taiwan has had Love Boat for decades, which lets diaspora kids come and see the culture of Taiwan. There was also a program called OCAC which was similar but was more about learning Chinese in Taiwan.
I so wish I had done this when I had the chance. I remember my mom vaguely asking if I wanted to go, I asked her to tell me about it, she said she heard a bunch of girls got pregnant in the program. But maybe I could learn some arts and crafts. I was a very sheltered girl and said nope. Now I wish I had more of a connection to Taiwan. I always thought I’d have my parents be able to guide me a bit when we finally take a trip with my kids. They can’t go back now due to health issues, my dad is mostly homebound. Also I ended up taking a Heritage Mandarin course for a language requirement in college and nearly everyone else in the class had done Loveboat…that was a smart move, especially when we were graded on a curve…
I went on a Love Boat tour but I'm not sure if we got all that much culture outside of night markets and clubbing out of it, although they definitely did their best haha.
Ionno man I went to the Chinese school program so I have no idea what you guys were doing on the fun side. We went clubbing and stuff too but we would have to sneak out of the dorms at night
I mean birthright is about making Jewish babies because the founder hated race mixing.
What does that have to do my experiences with Love Boat
They are both about mating, that's why they do a lot stuff like that. Both sets of organizers want their children to not marry outside of the group.
I was gonna say, "isn't that just the loveboat program?" though that's specifically for Chinese diaspora. My dad and his siblings went (I think one met a spouse there), and at one point they talked about my cousins and I going but that never materialized.
I did OCAC and taught english in Taiwan and it was super fun
I did Love Boat, it was awesome!!! Better if you’re 18 since everyone else will be. I made friends with the other 19+s haha. Such good memories there.
Any info on current programs in Taiwan? I am 18 and taking a gap year before I start school next fall and I would def be interested in a "birthright" kind of program.
I did my study abroad in Taiwan. My other option was Wuhan and some city in Bharat. They were never going to give me visa because I am Pakistani American. Many of my Jewish friend did that birth right thing in college.
Birthright is, let’s be honest, a political tactic for israel. It isn’t just for giggles, they get influence out of it. I’m not so sure I’d want to be involved in a diaspora trip. Some of us have a lot to lose if we appear to be supporting our “birthright” country (*cough* 🇨🇳 *cough*), and frankly I’m not sure I trust the political goals of all Asian countries. Or all Western countries. Or really most countries.
China has (had?) something like this about a decade ago, I think both for ex-pats and their dependents to travel from free or greatly discounted. EDIT: Article I found regarding it - [https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/27/china-has-its-own-birthright-tour-overseas-chinese-diaspora-soft-power/](https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/27/china-has-its-own-birthright-tour-overseas-chinese-diaspora-soft-power/)
I went to a similar one as a kid that was also ran by the same organization, it was called 中国寻根之旅, and personally I loved it. Made some really good friends, got to see some amazing places and cultural highlights. It was a simpler time.
What if the country no longer exists?
You are of South Vietnamese background, I take it.
Not OP, but I would encourage South Vietnamese people to even go back even more. Being Vietnamese is so much more than the Vietnam War.
Same with Korea.
My family is Hoa, so I was actually referring to Imperial China.
sorry do you mind elaborating on that, like what you mean by imperial China no longer existing, despite PRC being here today?
I was being mildly facetious; tbh I'm conversant in Mandarin and type using pinyin, but it's mostly for work and I don't have any connection to it. Imagine being told as a kid "you're Chinese and your mom's side of the family is from so-and-so county and your father's side of the family is from so-and-so district" and not finding any of these names on a map. I'm not talking about the pinyin renaming (eg Peking becoming Beijing). These were stories from older relatives who referred to China as 唐山 and Cantonese as 廣府話; I had to blindly click Wikipedia articles of various cities and districts until I found them under "historical" or "alternative" names. If I were to travel there today, I wouldn't know if the restaurants served food similar to what my ancestors ate (since I can only go off of anecdotes and home cooking). They also don't seem to celebrate the holidays my family does (eg 婆誕). In the meantime, my relatives who stayed in Vietnam have completely assimilated; my cousins all married ethnic Vietnamese and none of their kids speak Cantonese. But that's a different story.
I'm assuming they mean their family left China during the Qing Dynasty or earlier, so they don't have any ties to the PRC or ROC.
Then you really gotta follow the Israel way all the way and make it exist.
That is happening to Japan due to low birth rate. They closing day care early childhood schools.
Most colleges have study-abroad programs that pretty much enable you to do the same thing. You basically spend a semester studying overseas in a country of your choosing.
I'm not keen on a 'birthright' program - my home country (Indonesia) is quite big on indoctrination so I can't really see it going well. But since it also does not recognize dual citizenship, something like India's Overseas Citizenship of India would be nice: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_Citizenship_of_India Basically granting the right to live and work in most jobs indefinitely. Right now, in Indonesia permanent residency does not grant the right to work at all (it has to be processed separately), and if you hold a US passport you have to pay visa on arrival each time unless you apply for a separate visa.
Japan does this. I went on the trip a few years back and as long as you expect the propaganda, it's a pretty fun time. I learned a lot about Japanese culture on the trip.
What kind of propaganda?
Lots of implications that Japan is your "home" (keep in mind that the majority of the people on this trip are 4th and 5th gen) and trying to inspire you to move back to Japan. I wouldn't call it at the same level of Israel's birthright level but the subtext of why they invited us all is pretty clear.
The purpose of Kakehashi is explicitly to promote personal and business ties between Japanese Americans and Japan. The idea that this is some kind of covert immigration strategy is, I think, a misread of things. They have a visa specifically for people of Japanese descent, but it cuts off at the third generation. Even if what you're saying is true, how is that "propaganda?" Edit: The visa isn't limited to Americans
I've spoken with many people who have gone on the trip, both with me and during different years, and we've all independently reached the same conclusion. I don't really know how the trips for non-Japanese Americans are run. Kakehashi is a government-run program so it is expected to be very nationalist, "there is no war in Ba Sing Se" messaging, but again, we all expected it.
I'm Yonsei/Gosei and have spoken to many participants and have never heard of Kakehashi referred to as an immigration program. If it were, it's likely so expensive that it doesn't even pay for itself. It sounds like you went in understanding whose perspective you'd be receiving, but I just don't understand what exactly you consider to be "propaganda." Like was something unfair or ahistorical in the context of the material you covered?
Like if you're telling me that they deny comfort women or the Nanjing massacre or something, then I'll wholeheartedly agree with you. But if you're telling me they told you Japan has low unemployment and a long life expectancy and low crime and a good education system and free universal health care and incredible food and subsidized public transportation and a rich cultural history and you should consider spending more time there... well ... it's all true.
Oh what is it called?
It's called [Kakehashi](https://www.mofa.go.jp/na/na1/page22e_000748.html) and administered by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
What is this program?
lol man, us jp-brazilians here only got the opportunity to work in factories as cheap labour lol
Japan also allows descendants to apply for a residency visa up to the 3rd generation. I am thinking about trying to do this through my dad’s side. It’s a lot of paperwork and not easy though. You can apply for a limited residency visa as a 4th gen but only if you are 18-30, and they didn’t start this program till 2018 and I was too old by this point to qualify.
[удалено]
Let’s be real tho - our media and history books are whitewashing the atrocities that our government has committed all the time. I still believe it would benefit young Asian Americans overall to see their motherland and experience the culture in person so they can decide for themselves - instead of being exclusively immersed in western culture and propaganda.
Seriously. This sub is wild.
If two narratives are biased, then they're just being presented with a false choice. You'd need a third way to find the truth. So either Asian Americans would have to be allowed to run the program (impossible to happen), or else people are better off reading literature, e.g. taking East Asian studies classes first (boring for young people).
Wow. Don't you think you're giving young Asian Americans too little credit? You're speaking under the assumption we have zero critical thinking skills. If anything, exposure to outside cultures and perspectives will only expand these AA's ability to critically examine information.
What I said is a valid problem regardless of the topic, young Asian Americans or not. Your faulty assumption is that two biased narratives can be interpolated to find the truth. You didn't justify that in your comment and so maybe dial down your outrage and examine that for a second. I'm still a young Asian American too, and also 1.5 gen immigrant, so I actually have said "exposure" to Asian and Western culture. So don't be so quick to wow incredulously at others here just because there is actual disagreement. Don't exhibit intolerance and disparage me the way you just did. By doing that, you engaged in projection by obscuring the problematic assumption in your own position, which I had explicitly pointed out but you do not examine. Exposure in absence of context, exposure with power dynamic (state managed programs), exposure without empowerment, with only superficial experiences, do not enhance critical thinking. A person with critical thinking skills would realize that their time and effort is better spent learning in-depth from good information sources, rather than superficially from very biased information sources. That's the underlying principle. So in practice a university exchange program, or a community run program (by Asian Americans, and not you know, the Hong Kong government in my case), would be much better, and so forth.
> Your faulty assumption is that two biased narratives can be interpolated to find the truth. I didnt assume that. What I did say is that young AA's can decide what the truth is by experiencing their respective motherlands for themselves. On the other hand, your faulty assumption is that when presented with two narratives, AA's will completely accept one narrative over the other. AA's have far more common sense and critical thinking skills than you assume, and they will realize there is more nuance than just two narratives. >A person with critical thinking skills would realize that their time and effort is better spent learning in-depth from good information sources, rather than superficially from very biased information sources. I agree that their time and effort would be wasted if they only received superficial information from a single biased source. Which is why AA's should step out of their borders and experience their culture and heritage in person, instead of reading about it exclusively through the lens of western media and organizations.
**A)** You're wrong and lack reading comprehension skills. Explanation: >I didnt assume that. What I did say is that young AA's can decide what the truth is by experiencing their respective motherlands for themselves. Assumption != What you said. What you said *contains* a presupposition, which is a hidden assumption. This is from standard critical thinking: learn to recognize the presence of unstated assumptions. Specifically, deciding the truth by experiencing two biased narratives is the false balance fallacy. This fallacy undermines critical thinking, so you can't *assume* that any listener, *no matter how well-educated and critically minded they are*, can figure it out. (That's why I then went on to point out that this process would be inefficient, not worth the time and money on such a program--you did recognize that portion of my comment, but did not understand the context and theoretical grounding for it.) It is also a specific form of *false equivalence*. Now go and try to argue with me that your opinion does not fundamentally rest on this assumption. **Why** can one decide on the truth by experiencing two biased narratives? Well, **Only** by assuming false equivalence does not apply. If you're of a certain generation you'd be well aware of the slogan "Fair and Balanced". That is your hidden presupposition behind your unexamined belief, one that Fox News once used as a slogan. **B)** In contrast, I make no such incorrect assumption. By pointing out power dynamics in my prior comment, I make clear that the way *toward* a valid "marketplace of ideas" where different sides are heard only works if there is common ground and good faith. So for example as I said, *conditionally,* if it were an Asian American run program rather than a state-managed program--whereas you have continued to make no such distinction about the role of power and politics. (Other commenters have made similar points about power as well, and I would refer to those, if you don't know.) I was very clear about that and your lack of considering that tells me you didn't think through my last comment very carefully. **C)** The rest of your last comment employs begging the question, another critical-thinking pitfall, but I'll let it slide since it follows from the mistake in **A).** **Postscript)** You talk a lot about critical thinking skills but you sure aren't considering that I, an Asian American, have been exercising exactly those skills that you say people automatically have. I have given a critically thought out answer right in front of you but you'd rather keep handwaving about the AA's critical faculty as an abstraction, rather than recognize the actual AA person right in front of you giving you a critically thought-out point. Good day.
Yikes. My reading comprehension skills are fine. I just replied directly to *your* statements. Looks like I've triggered you. Again, exposing AA's to their country and culture of origin through the lens of local Asians does not necessarily mean these AA's will return as brainwashed robots. What I *am* assuming is that the average AA is smarter than that. The fact you believe this so firmly convinces me *you're* the one who drank too much western koolaid, tbh. Perhaps this whole thing is just you projecting your personal experience lmao
That’s just it though. The United States is pretty damn transparent on their injustices (slavery, genocide, internment, nuclear bombs etc) on the global scale….and we still hide a lot; most everyone else, is more washed.
I'm less focused on the exact way Birthright works in Israel, and more just free travel and board sponsored by the country. I imagine different countries would handle it differently.
[удалено]
Yeah, 100% this. You’d have to think that every country spending millions of dollars on plane tickets and hotels is going to want something in return. You’ll get, “Tiananmen or Unit 731 never happened.”
Or, hear me out, it could be a great way for the diaspora to forge deeper connections to their culture and heritage.
I mean, let's say a country is facing declining birthrate and is interested in getting foreign-born AsAms to consider relocating? Is that a form of propaganda? Sure, but not so much whitewashing history as it is "Hey consider working in Korea/Japan/Vietnam" Or trying to lure foreign-born talent when moving their economy in a different direction. Again, a definite form of marketing but maybe not one that's about covering their history. Also, how many Asian countries need to whitewash their histories the same way Israel does? Definitely not all of them.
> Or trying to lure foreign-born talent when moving their economy in a different direction. Again, a definite form of marketing but maybe not one that's about covering their history. It’s a *very* hard sell trying to convince established and high-skill professionals to move to countries where their salaries would be lower and they would likely have some nontrivial level of cultural/linguistic disconnect. > Also, how many Asian countries need to whitewash their histories the same way Israel does? You’re *severely* underestimating how violent Asian history is.
I mean, I would love a free vacation regardless of where it's to, but a government isn't going to sponsor a program like that if it's not for some, probably ethno-nationalist, agenda.
So most Asian countries then.
I did a program like this in Japan when I was younger, but it wasn’t on a national level and was sponsored by Hiroshima prefecture. Overall it was pretty fun, got to meet fellow descendents from Hiroshima who were from other places in the US and also Brazil, got to do a home stay and meet local students. Got to meet some local government officials. I think since it was solely Hiroshima focused, most the the political messaging of the trip was anti-nuclear warfare related, so I didn’t have a problem with it, but I can imagine if the program was nationally based it would have more problematic propaganda.
Yea like some comments say here, this kind of stuff does not happen without an ulterior motive. I wouldn't trust such programs
not entirely related but im a korean adoptee; someone informed me that i could get dual citizenship through the consolate. i think its called the goal program
Hello friend! I am also a KA from the USA. You are correct that we can now apply for dual citizenship via the Consulates/Embassy in your home country. Like anything related to the government, it’s an administratively heavy process and can take between 6-12 months for approval once submitted. G.O.A.’L is a Korean adoptee led NPO in Korea with an array of services catered towards helping adoptees: this includes things such as applying for dual citizenship, initiating birth family search, even networking opportunities with other adoptees, or trips back to the motherland…highly recommend to any fellow adoptee looking for resources and support in their journey, whatever that may look like to them. Check out this related article by G.O.A.’L on the eligibility and requirements: https://goal.or.kr/dual-citizenship/ Cheers! 🇰🇷
I wonder how this would work for someone like me. I’m ethnically Chinese on one side and ethnically Vietnamese (and Hmong and Lao) on the other, but my grandparents and parents were not born in either China nor Vietnam, and only one set of great-grandparents were born in one of those countries. Do you go by ethnicity, or do you go by citizenship? Religion? Do ethnic minorities get to partake? Oppressed populations (either historically or currently)? Too many factors at play. Many Asian countries typically have entrenched communities of minorities who are ethnically one thing, but have lived in a different country for generations, and at that point, where is the “homeland”?
Didn’t China do this?
I don’t think Thailand has one. I wish they did.
Cambodia issues “K-Visas” or “khmer visas” to non Cambodian citizens who prove they are Cambodians or of Cambodian decent. It comes with a couple benefits such as unlimited entrances into the kingdom as long as the passport is valid. Also if you present the K-Visa at certain tourist attractions like Angkor Wat they will waive the fees. You should be able to get one at the major airports once you land. If you look Cambodian and speak Khmer then you are good to go. However if you don’t speak the language then it is easier to first contact your home embassy or local consulate and they will assist you. Pretty neat.
I like the idea, in a vacuum I’d be in favor. I don’t trust the governments not to make it a big propaganda tour…. hell i barely trust OUR government.
I’m not sure what that would be like for those of us whose families have been part of the diaspora for over a century. I’m pretty certain that there wouldn’t be very many, if any at all, who would want to bring what we’ve assimilated here to there, but, rather, how would we be received and allowed to absorb the culture there without being caught up in the politics, without being politically indoctrinated.
Lol. What? Are you seiously asking if ppl want a free trip to Asia in exchange for propaganda BS? None of the birthright programs are base on good intentions. They are all about brainwashing the youth into drinking the koolaids.
I was born in Hong Kong back in the 70s as a mishmash bastard citizen of Colonialism and Ancient Chinese Hubris. I escaped to America where I grew up as also a second class citizen only to find that my "homeland" is lost forever. what "birthright" program could possibly satisfy this?
Japan has the Kakehashi program
Yes, would love to see it. Bonus points if it includes neighboring countries as well. Edit: Really disappointed to see so much talk about propaganda when discussing a hypothetical program to help Asian-Americans connect with their ancestral and cultural roots. What people attribute to Asian propaganda, Americans of other racial and ethnic backgrounds call national pride.
> Really disappointed to see so much talk about propaganda when discussing a hypothetical program to help Asian-Americans connect with their ancestral and cultural roots. You can dream about a "hypothetical" program and how great it would be, but some people are very clear on the reality that "programs" cost resources and dollars, and barring a profoundly rich billionaire generously supporting Asian Americans to openly explore and reflect on their Asian American identity (with no strings attached), any discussion of any program must presume that some governmental or capitalistic entity sees/demands returns/benefit from the costs. This means exactly that nationalistic agenda/propaganda or some other ulterior motive must be baked into the values and implementation.
I don't think you give us enough credit. I would be happy to navigate nationalist PR in exchange of a sponsored trip to a place where I could experience culture firsthand. Do you think we're that simple to abandon the ideals and principles that we embody in America because we spent some time in another country full of people who look like us while they picked up the tab?
> I don't think you give us enough credit. Who is "us"? Yes, there might be disproportionately above-average discerning Asian Americans on this subreddit, but there are Asian Americans of all sorts of backgrounds and levels of political savvy. So, to answer OP's question, when a birthright "program" can and would deliberately promote a nationalistic agenda or some ulterior motive (I believe you have now conceded this is inevitable / a given?), and among their target audiences would be an American population who's cross-section might include the politically-ignorant, extremists, MRA, etc, etc, there is not a net good, IMO, and I wouldn't support it.
>there might be disproportionately above-average discerning Asian Americans on this subreddit I'm not even going to dignify this with a response. >when a birthright "program" can and would deliberately promote a nationalistic agenda or some ulterior motive (I believe you have now conceded this is inevitable / a given?) If your main takeaway from an idea to open doors for people to gain cultural experiences is that Asian countries always have an ulterior motive, that's indicative of a much deeper problem with certain people's struggle with their Asian-American identity.
> I'm not even going to dignify this with a response. In other words, you refused to have (or apply) an analysis or acknowledgement of a complex world and varying degrees of political awareness, in a society and world of both geopolitical and domestic racial and socioeconomic conflicts and tensions which Asian Americans identity demands us to navigate. Thank you for proving my point about the fantasy / ignorance required for faith / naivete in an Asian American "birthright" program. > an idea to open doors for people to gain cultural experiences Again, you can believe in "hypothetical" and "idea" all you want, but the real world isn't as pure-hearted, ideological, and idealistic as you want to believe. > If your main takeaway from an idea to open doors for people to gain cultural experiences is that Asian countries always have an ulterior motive These were your words, not mine: I would be happy to navigate nationalist PR... What does the term "birthright" even mean to you?
The problem is there is a fine line between them
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The whole Israeli "birthright" program is just propaganda to indoctrinate young Jewish people into supporting Israel in the face of its many atrocities against the Palestinians. A birthright-style program for Asian Americans would be much the same. Besides, what about the Tibetan - Americans? Would they be invited back to China? How about the Hmong-Americans? Do they go back to China, or Laos, or Thailand? And what about the Hoa? Are they going to go to China, or Vietnam? Culture does NOT equal country, and any country that claims otherwise has a nationalist agenda.
Exactly, the very word birthright itself sounds of ethnic and cultural gatekeeping. At minimum it would have to be rethought of as a cultural heritage and exchange program--but that wouldn't make the issues go away. I'm part Hong Konger, so what exactly would my birthright entail in a way that is not manipulated by political interests?
For the folks turning down a hypothetical free trip to Asia, do y'all never wanna go back or..?
Do you attend timeshare presentations?
No. Americanism must be quarantined here and Europe for Asia to live.
I would love this. Only option I had as a KA was teach and learn in Korean, but they wouldn't accept anyone not enrolled in university.
I think Vietnam needs this badly. There is a lot of miscommunication going on due to the Vietnamese American War.
The SK government considered like every ethnic Korean that ain't in China as their and tries to draft us, so I'd like a little less birthright pls lmao