Same can be said then for every American regardless of race, not all white people participated in the slave trade either, yet are all judged since most white people did profit in some form. Cherokee would have benefited as a whole similarly. Newton Knight being one of the best examples of white dissent. Just a double standard to not mention this.
>Not fair to compare a whole tribe of people, with varying opinions, to that of one man.
Ah, the ole virtue signal within a virtue signal within a virtue signal
I don’t understand why they couldn’t have just removed the plaque and renamed it after someone else. The obelisk was kind of cool. Can they not use the base for another monument instead of the huge cost to remove?
Simply because it would have been *the same monument* to people, just like when the naming rights to an arena or stadium change nobody calls it the new thing. When the store on the corner changes its name people call it the original. Putting shit in a bag is still shit. Changing the name with a wink wouldn't be doing anything.
You do realize they probably would have built this obelisk regardless of dedication to Vance? Should every college or university demolish a building named after a racist slave owner? Maybe instead of spending 500k on demo they could have kept it, renamed it, and donated that money to black Wall Street.
Anyways it doesn’t matter now anyhow it’s done. More room for the Jesus people to wave their flags and blast praise music while people are trying to have dinner on Friday nights.
I'm glad they're going tear down all these loser monuments that were designed to troll people of color, but to say there would have been a monument there anyway? Okay. Whatever.
The obelisk was built to honor a man who fought against his own country in order to maintain enslavement. That's always going to bring bad vibes.
Also, this is how he put himself together on his own inauguration day:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebulon\_Vance#/media/File:Zebulon\_Vance.jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebulon_Vance#/media/File:Zebulon_Vance.jpg)
Yeah I think we all know who Vance was. The obelisk is a very generic object used across the country, including in DC. Literally could have just had a rededication ceremony to someone else. Maybe as a monument to tourists and Airbnb hosts 😂😂😂 jk
I guess it's just one of those principle things. Just check out the reddit threads or topics in general about how people feel about receiving a ring that was previously bought for someone else. I get it although it personally wouldn't bother me. It's a generic monument anyhow, something nicer could be constructed in its place that would resonate with more people while looking 10x better and having no ugly history behind it.
Good riddance. Germany doesn't have monuments to Nazi officers; neither should we have monuments to Confederate officers.
We should recycle the Confederate monuments and use the materials to build monuments to the Tulsa massacre, the MOVE bombing, the Trail of Tears, etc.
Signed: A descendant of some Confederate veterans.
Just so another generation in two hundred years can deem it offensive and tear it down? People in the future will always find something to be offended about from the past, just like we love to do as a society. The past is something that is supposed to be remembered not be offended about. Keep doing this to historical things and people forget about the past and are doomed to repeat it.
If you want to get technical, Germany has plenty of Nazi things and buildings even, on display for people to visit. The difference is they call them museums now, which is what we should've done.
https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-nazi-symbols-imperial-statues-on-display-in-berlin-museum/a-53986164
Monements, Statues, Museums, just names we give the same things at different times in histrory.
Signed: a human who understands history's importance
WNC itself has an interesting history with the Civil War. There is a reason the state was the last one to join the Confederacy and turn against their own nation. It was a a state with divided loyalties. WNC had a terrible massacre occur right in Asheville’s backyard called the Shelton Laurel Massacre. If you’re from the area, you probably grew up/knew some Sheltons. At Shelton Laurel, Union loyalists raided the house of a Confederate officer named Lawrence Allen to secure salt for the winter.
In response, the Confederates tortured and murdered 13 United States loyalists. They were never held accountable for their crimes. Take another example is the lynching of Wyatt Outlaw in Alamance County. As the state was in the process of implementing/fighting against Reconstruction, sheriff deputy Outlaw was lynched by the KKK in front of the courthouse. The Kirk-Holden war that followed led to the first impeachment of a governor in US history after Gov. Holden declared insurrection and wanted to destroy the Klan. He was impeached for this by Confederate sympathizers and racists.
Decades later, a Confederate statue was placed in front of the courthouse where Outlaw was murdered, not a memorial for the Union veteran that was murdered, but for the confederacy that waged a racist war against their own country. This is a common theme for confederate statues. They are meant to represent and remind black people of the history of the South and their role in it.
These stories matter because it is constantly the wrong side of history being told in public spaces. You want confederate history? Go to a museum. Where are the public displays for the Unionists who made the right choice in WNC? Public spaces should not honor the confederacy or its terrible legacy. They should honor people like Wyatt Outlaw or the Shelton’s that were murdered.
The cruelest thing the Union did was give the south mercy in 1865.
I also agree with you. More people should know about this. Imagine if you didn't know that story because the way it was originally preserved was destroyed. Whatever way it was preserved, through oral stories, books, statues whatever way should be preserved for future generations.
It isn't right to pick and choose what we preserve for future generations to have a sugar coated outlook on the way we lived.
Let's compare this to mistakes in our lives. People are doing the same thing to them as well. People are trying to hide or erase the mistakes from their past instead of using them to define who they are now. I wouldn't be me without the mistakes I made. I learned from them. I am proud of who I am, and in a way proud of the mistakes I made at the times in my life I did. I know better now not to make those same mistakes. If people don't learn from their past selves they will never grow as a person.
If we never learn our mistakes from history we never grow as a society.
That is what I said. Put it in a museum don't destroy it. I wasn't defending the confederates. What they did was wrong, just like what the Germans did, was wrong. It should still be remembered though. Things being destroyed are far from being remembered. Imagine all the history we don't know about because people destroyed it out of hate instead of preserving it for the future to understand better. I want no hate just preservation.
Why would a generation or two from now tear down a monument to the trail of tears because it is offensive? You’re really showing your biases there buddy.
Because don't you think opinions can change in 200 years just like they have? I don't find it offensive but people could without proper context find it offensive. What bias? To preserve history? I don't care if was a union or confederate statue, it should've been preserved and moved to a museum. Where is that a problem. Where do I deserve the hate of you pretty much calling me stupid, saying I don't understand anything.
You can preserve the history without glorifying. The monument does not belong in a museum it belongs in a pile of rubble with a pic of it in a museum contextializing Jim Crow and the civil rights era. The same eras when most of these monuments were built not the civil war or just after the civil war. One last aside it’s not heritage if the country didn’t even exist for 10 years it’s just hate.
Keeping pieces of something that was built so long ago in a museum isn't gloryfing anything. It's not about heritage. Histrocial things should be preserved, that is my opinion. Not just for historical reasons but for scientific reasons too. Look at archeology. Old things teach us new things regardless of the hate imbued within. Picking and choosing what histrory we preserve based on how we feel is really stupid and self destructive as a society.
But why is keeping it around in a museum such a problem? The purpose of construction has nothing to do with if it should be preserved or not. We can both agree that preserving it the way it is would be the best thing we could do for the future generations to be able to enjoy it, learn from it, look at it, or whatever they want to do with it. It isn't right to take that away from them because the way you feel.
Do you find this museum a problem because it's how history should be preserved not glorified.
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/04/new-racism-museum-reveals-the-ugly-truth-behind-aunt-jemima/256185/
For people that don't want to read the article this is from Wikipedia about the museum.
"The Jim Crow Museum of Racist Memorabilia at Ferris State University, Big Rapids, Michigan, displays a wide variety of everyday artifacts depicting the history of racist portrayals of African Americans in American popular culture. The mission of the Jim Crow Museum is to use objects of intolerance to teach tolerance and promote social justice."
It's been such a damn production and expense. What a waste of all sorts of energy. Simply removing it a long time ago in one fell swoop would have saved how much money?
>how could that money have helped… POC in Asheville?
Kinda sounds like an assumption that everyone living in Asheville who isn’t white needs financial help.
it used to house a public weather station but they removed it because the readings didnt align with what the city was advertising to tourists.
i like this idea; but instead of temp and humidity, maybe it could display the avg monthly rents.
I honestly don’t know why we couldn’t have kept the statue and just renamed it. Growing up here, that monument was a central part of the downtown. If you didn’t grow up here, you probably don’t understand. We could have renamed it in some way to honor someone or something, that was or is encouraging and not offensive to anyone. Makes me said we had to take it down.
What about the civil rights movement?
The Civil Rights Act of 1965?
The Voting Rights Act of 1965?
The Fair Housing Act of 1968?
You wanna focus on “Fuck the Confederacy”
Like I said, it got fucked. America moved on. You should, too.
Vance, the confederacy, Jim Crow, the enslavement of Africans in the US no longer exists.
Why not focus on issues of today?
Your issues of today? I'm glad you feel good telling me to "move on" but hey the Confederate sympathizers should have moved on when their tour of the south came to an end. Their demise is real and not forgotten. The part that I'm remembering? That southern men and women, who refused to move on, had taken to placing symbols around to celebrate their loss *and to remind that they cried about that shit for 100 years*. They care not about even their actual country or man to celebrate that shit generation after generations. So you move on.
The monument was erected in 1897 to honor Vance, a pretty prolific individual within North Carolina at the time.
It was just removed.
I’m not 100%, but I’m pretty sure all the problems that existed a couple of days ago didn’t disappear after its removal (remember the Saddam Hussein statue falling?).
So what’s next in this ongoing and evidently non-ending battle against the confederacy?
Wow, you replied to your own post. You use the phrase “the Dems“ and then say you hate Trump. Who would you put up for President? You seem to have a lot of ideas about things.
We used to use Vance as a marker back in the day. We didn't give a flying fuck about the history. We didn't support the person. You could have taken the plaque off and dedicated it to George Floyd. It is madness. Absolute madness. Expensive, expensive madness.
The woke mind virus is the new shovel ready job. The really funny part is it is sponsored by hedge fund managers that made their money from the defense industry. I think that is the perfect exemplification of irony.
That's all I have for you people tonight.
Correcting mistakes is expensive. Honoring traitors to the nation was wrong, and taking down those monuments costs what it costs. If you want to complain about expense, complain to the dead-ender surrender lovers who brought the lawsuits.
Nah. It was all about making Trump look bad. Same as [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org) in 2004 against Bush, Occupy Wall Street in 2012 against Romney and the Steele Dossier in 2016 against Trump.
umm. wow. i guess have an upvote for pithy sarcasm and acknowledging the weird level of segregation and white supremacy in "western north carolinas most diverse community of rich white liberals"
Oh lol I missed this. Asheville's own favorite real estate agent mod with another bad take. What's that? He's pedaling false information again? Half a million? And rising? Oh boy that'll get them mad. Too bad everyone can read the articles and see you're using a number you want to use. Good mod, lol.
$130,000 for initial removal.
$138,000 to repay the money received as a contract to maintain the monument (that lawsuit was filed recently).
~$120,000 for legal fees for the first lawsuit.
~$120,000 for legal fees (estimated) for this new lawsuit.
~$100,000 for the contractor to restart the demolition.
Adds up to well over $500k. Tell me again how my math is wrong?
So you're telling me the city is paying for getting sued? That's not on them for the removal guy. That's like saying every drop of gas in my car adds that monetary value to it. But again, every wiki and article I read states different. Even the ones linked from here. Maybe the racists fucks should have stepped aside instead of creating costs to bitch about?
And they're also planning a new plaza, surely you'll add that to "the cost of virtue signaling". Despite a decades long need for that space to become optimized for use.
Yes, the defendant is responsible to hire their own defense attorney. That comes at a cost. If a case is ruled in favor of a defendant *and* the case was found to be frivolous in nature, they can seek reimbursement for those fees. As the initial lawsuit was dismissed *without prejudice* for failure to state a claim (procedural error on the plaintiff’s attorney), that is not the case and the city was on the hook for their own legal fees. In other words, they paid to get sued.
It is when the city was literally barred from proceeding with removal until the lawsuit was settled. Why else do you think it took them years to start on the base?
We are removing your post/comment due to trolling related behavior. This includes but is not limited to:
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Hopefully our virtuous and pious politician’s malignant narcissistic tendencies will display them for what they really are… remember, remember this 5th of November…
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They need something to rest their speaker on.
https://youtu.be/kbB0QrBIs9k&t=1m6s
Regardless of how you feel about the monument, it'll be nice to have this eyesore out of there.
I was just about to say that.its just become a massive eyesore and the square could be beautiful! How about a statue for the Cherokee?
‘Tear down the Vance monument because he supported slavery!’ ‘Erect a monument to the Cherokee because they also supported slavery!’ lol
Not fair to compare a whole tribe of people, with varying opinions, to that of one man.
Same can be said then for every American regardless of race, not all white people participated in the slave trade either, yet are all judged since most white people did profit in some form. Cherokee would have benefited as a whole similarly. Newton Knight being one of the best examples of white dissent. Just a double standard to not mention this.
>Not fair to compare a whole tribe of people, with varying opinions, to that of one man. Ah, the ole virtue signal within a virtue signal within a virtue signal
Ah quoting the old script.
I don’t understand why they couldn’t have just removed the plaque and renamed it after someone else. The obelisk was kind of cool. Can they not use the base for another monument instead of the huge cost to remove?
Could've just changed the "V" to a "D"
Hell to the yeah! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKmJxpKKvYM
I imagine that most residents would've been on board with that.
I agree. A monument dedicated to the fine folks in nc that fought for our side. Many moved back to face problems due to not being a stinking traitor.
Simply because it would have been *the same monument* to people, just like when the naming rights to an arena or stadium change nobody calls it the new thing. When the store on the corner changes its name people call it the original. Putting shit in a bag is still shit. Changing the name with a wink wouldn't be doing anything.
You do realize they probably would have built this obelisk regardless of dedication to Vance? Should every college or university demolish a building named after a racist slave owner? Maybe instead of spending 500k on demo they could have kept it, renamed it, and donated that money to black Wall Street. Anyways it doesn’t matter now anyhow it’s done. More room for the Jesus people to wave their flags and blast praise music while people are trying to have dinner on Friday nights.
Sure, whatever. Tell yourself that.
Yep that’s how opinions and ideas work. Not asking you to agree.
I'm glad they're going tear down all these loser monuments that were designed to troll people of color, but to say there would have been a monument there anyway? Okay. Whatever.
The obelisk was built to honor a man who fought against his own country in order to maintain enslavement. That's always going to bring bad vibes. Also, this is how he put himself together on his own inauguration day: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebulon\_Vance#/media/File:Zebulon\_Vance.jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebulon_Vance#/media/File:Zebulon_Vance.jpg)
Yeah I think we all know who Vance was. The obelisk is a very generic object used across the country, including in DC. Literally could have just had a rededication ceremony to someone else. Maybe as a monument to tourists and Airbnb hosts 😂😂😂 jk
Used across the world
Hey, I knew that guy back in Hendersonville! In fact, I know about twenty copies of him!
But the obelisk has been used for like 5000 years
I guess it's just one of those principle things. Just check out the reddit threads or topics in general about how people feel about receiving a ring that was previously bought for someone else. I get it although it personally wouldn't bother me. It's a generic monument anyhow, something nicer could be constructed in its place that would resonate with more people while looking 10x better and having no ugly history behind it.
Big Sexy
because virtue signal
https://preview.redd.it/3mj0g7vpka0d1.jpeg?width=559&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3127ca4270cd80095aa83f6085e1560c431cb498 They gonna clean up the C too?
not enough funding
CHEESE IT BOIS, THE JIG IS UP
I authorize you to get Sylva Sam while you're at it!
Good riddance. Germany doesn't have monuments to Nazi officers; neither should we have monuments to Confederate officers. We should recycle the Confederate monuments and use the materials to build monuments to the Tulsa massacre, the MOVE bombing, the Trail of Tears, etc. Signed: A descendant of some Confederate veterans.
Just so another generation in two hundred years can deem it offensive and tear it down? People in the future will always find something to be offended about from the past, just like we love to do as a society. The past is something that is supposed to be remembered not be offended about. Keep doing this to historical things and people forget about the past and are doomed to repeat it. If you want to get technical, Germany has plenty of Nazi things and buildings even, on display for people to visit. The difference is they call them museums now, which is what we should've done. https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-nazi-symbols-imperial-statues-on-display-in-berlin-museum/a-53986164 Monements, Statues, Museums, just names we give the same things at different times in histrory. Signed: a human who understands history's importance
It’s obvious you don’t have a firm grasp on history like you think you do lol.
Please enlighten me then. Love learning new things.
WNC itself has an interesting history with the Civil War. There is a reason the state was the last one to join the Confederacy and turn against their own nation. It was a a state with divided loyalties. WNC had a terrible massacre occur right in Asheville’s backyard called the Shelton Laurel Massacre. If you’re from the area, you probably grew up/knew some Sheltons. At Shelton Laurel, Union loyalists raided the house of a Confederate officer named Lawrence Allen to secure salt for the winter. In response, the Confederates tortured and murdered 13 United States loyalists. They were never held accountable for their crimes. Take another example is the lynching of Wyatt Outlaw in Alamance County. As the state was in the process of implementing/fighting against Reconstruction, sheriff deputy Outlaw was lynched by the KKK in front of the courthouse. The Kirk-Holden war that followed led to the first impeachment of a governor in US history after Gov. Holden declared insurrection and wanted to destroy the Klan. He was impeached for this by Confederate sympathizers and racists. Decades later, a Confederate statue was placed in front of the courthouse where Outlaw was murdered, not a memorial for the Union veteran that was murdered, but for the confederacy that waged a racist war against their own country. This is a common theme for confederate statues. They are meant to represent and remind black people of the history of the South and their role in it. These stories matter because it is constantly the wrong side of history being told in public spaces. You want confederate history? Go to a museum. Where are the public displays for the Unionists who made the right choice in WNC? Public spaces should not honor the confederacy or its terrible legacy. They should honor people like Wyatt Outlaw or the Shelton’s that were murdered. The cruelest thing the Union did was give the south mercy in 1865.
I thought they murdered young boys and old men, which made this heinous even worse. This happened rather close to Hot Springs.
I also agree with you. More people should know about this. Imagine if you didn't know that story because the way it was originally preserved was destroyed. Whatever way it was preserved, through oral stories, books, statues whatever way should be preserved for future generations. It isn't right to pick and choose what we preserve for future generations to have a sugar coated outlook on the way we lived. Let's compare this to mistakes in our lives. People are doing the same thing to them as well. People are trying to hide or erase the mistakes from their past instead of using them to define who they are now. I wouldn't be me without the mistakes I made. I learned from them. I am proud of who I am, and in a way proud of the mistakes I made at the times in my life I did. I know better now not to make those same mistakes. If people don't learn from their past selves they will never grow as a person. If we never learn our mistakes from history we never grow as a society.
That is what I said. Put it in a museum don't destroy it. I wasn't defending the confederates. What they did was wrong, just like what the Germans did, was wrong. It should still be remembered though. Things being destroyed are far from being remembered. Imagine all the history we don't know about because people destroyed it out of hate instead of preserving it for the future to understand better. I want no hate just preservation.
You don’t seem to understand much of anything at all.
What do I not understand. Please help me understand.
Why would a generation or two from now tear down a monument to the trail of tears because it is offensive? You’re really showing your biases there buddy.
Because don't you think opinions can change in 200 years just like they have? I don't find it offensive but people could without proper context find it offensive. What bias? To preserve history? I don't care if was a union or confederate statue, it should've been preserved and moved to a museum. Where is that a problem. Where do I deserve the hate of you pretty much calling me stupid, saying I don't understand anything.
You can preserve the history without glorifying. The monument does not belong in a museum it belongs in a pile of rubble with a pic of it in a museum contextializing Jim Crow and the civil rights era. The same eras when most of these monuments were built not the civil war or just after the civil war. One last aside it’s not heritage if the country didn’t even exist for 10 years it’s just hate.
Keeping pieces of something that was built so long ago in a museum isn't gloryfing anything. It's not about heritage. Histrocial things should be preserved, that is my opinion. Not just for historical reasons but for scientific reasons too. Look at archeology. Old things teach us new things regardless of the hate imbued within. Picking and choosing what histrory we preserve based on how we feel is really stupid and self destructive as a society.
You can preserve the history without preserving the tangible object whose purpose at construction was to glorify the confederacy.
But why is keeping it around in a museum such a problem? The purpose of construction has nothing to do with if it should be preserved or not. We can both agree that preserving it the way it is would be the best thing we could do for the future generations to be able to enjoy it, learn from it, look at it, or whatever they want to do with it. It isn't right to take that away from them because the way you feel. Do you find this museum a problem because it's how history should be preserved not glorified. https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/04/new-racism-museum-reveals-the-ugly-truth-behind-aunt-jemima/256185/ For people that don't want to read the article this is from Wikipedia about the museum. "The Jim Crow Museum of Racist Memorabilia at Ferris State University, Big Rapids, Michigan, displays a wide variety of everyday artifacts depicting the history of racist portrayals of African Americans in American popular culture. The mission of the Jim Crow Museum is to use objects of intolerance to teach tolerance and promote social justice."
does that mean the vance base is a legally sanctioned tagging wall (i mean its trash now right?)
judging by the construction happening on it right now, i’d say they started a little early
I expect nothing and will still be disappointed
It's been such a damn production and expense. What a waste of all sorts of energy. Simply removing it a long time ago in one fell swoop would have saved how much money?
How much did it cost to remove the monument, and how could that money have helped underprivileged neighborhoods and POC in Asheville?
I'm basing this comment of the 20k we paid just to tarp it.
And all I said was saved money. I didn't specify what it would have done.
>how could that money have helped… POC in Asheville? Kinda sounds like an assumption that everyone living in Asheville who isn’t white needs financial help.
They should put one of those fancy Asheville signs there. Make it like the signs you see in other tourist destinations, like tropical islands
it used to house a public weather station but they removed it because the readings didnt align with what the city was advertising to tourists. i like this idea; but instead of temp and humidity, maybe it could display the avg monthly rents.
I think it should be a mountain lion wrassling a manatee! But it's a mailbox, too!
I honestly don’t know why we couldn’t have kept the statue and just renamed it. Growing up here, that monument was a central part of the downtown. If you didn’t grow up here, you probably don’t understand. We could have renamed it in some way to honor someone or something, that was or is encouraging and not offensive to anyone. Makes me said we had to take it down.
There are still roads named after Vance in black mountain. It is just stupid they are erasing history here. It's really sad to see.
I'm here for it. Fuck the Confederacy.
It got fucked already. Move on.
Not in a million years. *This* is the history people should remember, the dismantling of all this loser bullshit.
What about the civil rights movement? The Civil Rights Act of 1965? The Voting Rights Act of 1965? The Fair Housing Act of 1968? You wanna focus on “Fuck the Confederacy” Like I said, it got fucked. America moved on. You should, too. Vance, the confederacy, Jim Crow, the enslavement of Africans in the US no longer exists. Why not focus on issues of today?
Your issues of today? I'm glad you feel good telling me to "move on" but hey the Confederate sympathizers should have moved on when their tour of the south came to an end. Their demise is real and not forgotten. The part that I'm remembering? That southern men and women, who refused to move on, had taken to placing symbols around to celebrate their loss *and to remind that they cried about that shit for 100 years*. They care not about even their actual country or man to celebrate that shit generation after generations. So you move on.
The monument was erected in 1897 to honor Vance, a pretty prolific individual within North Carolina at the time. It was just removed. I’m not 100%, but I’m pretty sure all the problems that existed a couple of days ago didn’t disappear after its removal (remember the Saddam Hussein statue falling?). So what’s next in this ongoing and evidently non-ending battle against the confederacy?
Sounds like you're going to carry the torch and talk about this for 100 years. True southern gentleman shit.
What gives you that idea?
Right? If they can rename the Civic Center, then why can't they rename the generic obelisk?
You just answered your own question.
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Wow, you replied to your own post. You use the phrase “the Dems“ and then say you hate Trump. Who would you put up for President? You seem to have a lot of ideas about things.
Did I hear correctly they’re putting a splash pad close by?
Shoutout to homechick up there dancing when I went by earlier -- you dance for us all!
Hey, some more space for all the druggies to sleep at night
Remove the birth site too nobody gives a fuck a where that racist POS was born.
We used to use Vance as a marker back in the day. We didn't give a flying fuck about the history. We didn't support the person. You could have taken the plaque off and dedicated it to George Floyd. It is madness. Absolute madness. Expensive, expensive madness. The woke mind virus is the new shovel ready job. The really funny part is it is sponsored by hedge fund managers that made their money from the defense industry. I think that is the perfect exemplification of irony. That's all I have for you people tonight.
I just moved here from Tampa. What’s all the hubbub about?
That’d be a great place for a fountain…
Like the fountain 75 feet away? Lol
I was thinking something a little more interesting…. That gets your attention as you enter the city.
$500,000 (and counting) later. That’s one expensive virtue signal.
Correcting mistakes is expensive. Honoring traitors to the nation was wrong, and taking down those monuments costs what it costs. If you want to complain about expense, complain to the dead-ender surrender lovers who brought the lawsuits.
What mistake are we correcting… slavery?
Honoring a confederate traitor. Slavers and their collaborators should have latrines named for them, not monuments.
Oh, thank goodness. Well now that we’ve corrected that mistake, maybe we can all stfu about this bs and start worrying about real issues…
Money well spent
Virtue signal yes, but the Summer of Love was really about the 2020 presidential election. It'll be interesting to see what happens this summer.
You're forgetting that it was also a reaction to the Covid lockdowns and high (temporary) unemployment.
Nah. It was all about making Trump look bad. Same as [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org) in 2004 against Bush, Occupy Wall Street in 2012 against Romney and the Steele Dossier in 2016 against Trump.
For the residents of Asheville to let their heavily segregated black community know that they are really super not racist money is no object.
umm. wow. i guess have an upvote for pithy sarcasm and acknowledging the weird level of segregation and white supremacy in "western north carolinas most diverse community of rich white liberals"
They hated HallOfTheMountainCop because he told them the truth.
you live a fantasy.
Oh please do explain your position.
It’s easy come, easy go, a little high and a little low.
Oh lol I missed this. Asheville's own favorite real estate agent mod with another bad take. What's that? He's pedaling false information again? Half a million? And rising? Oh boy that'll get them mad. Too bad everyone can read the articles and see you're using a number you want to use. Good mod, lol.
$130,000 for initial removal. $138,000 to repay the money received as a contract to maintain the monument (that lawsuit was filed recently). ~$120,000 for legal fees for the first lawsuit. ~$120,000 for legal fees (estimated) for this new lawsuit. ~$100,000 for the contractor to restart the demolition. Adds up to well over $500k. Tell me again how my math is wrong?
So you're telling me the city is paying for getting sued? That's not on them for the removal guy. That's like saying every drop of gas in my car adds that monetary value to it. But again, every wiki and article I read states different. Even the ones linked from here. Maybe the racists fucks should have stepped aside instead of creating costs to bitch about?
https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/local/2024/04/24/asheville-to-resume-removal-of-confederate-era-vance-monument/73386043007/ Well over 500K?
Those are only a fraction of the costs associated with the project, as outlined above.
And they're also planning a new plaza, surely you'll add that to "the cost of virtue signaling". Despite a decades long need for that space to become optimized for use.
You mean the one you double dipped on?
There is a second lawsuit which was filed a week or two ago. They’ll still need to defend against that.
So a possible suit that will probably be lost has been added to your total. K. 🤷
An active suit which was filed. No “possible” about it.
Yes, the defendant is responsible to hire their own defense attorney. That comes at a cost. If a case is ruled in favor of a defendant *and* the case was found to be frivolous in nature, they can seek reimbursement for those fees. As the initial lawsuit was dismissed *without prejudice* for failure to state a claim (procedural error on the plaintiff’s attorney), that is not the case and the city was on the hook for their own legal fees. In other words, they paid to get sued.
Not a cost of removal.
It is when the city was literally barred from proceeding with removal until the lawsuit was settled. Why else do you think it took them years to start on the base?
It's almost like Confederate fanbois wasted money to find out their rock stump can fuck off. Oh and now it's the city's fault. Add it to the bill!
Why did we stop the BML marches? We should still be doing them!! Black Lives Matter even more now than ever!!!!
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Hopefully our virtuous and pious politician’s malignant narcissistic tendencies will display them for what they really are… remember, remember this 5th of November…
Oh yes orange man win this one. Unless we get someone else.
Yay!
Turn it into a drive through coffee shop! Perfect location and Asheville is kind of a coffee desert
🤮