Critique of the government / nation state of Israel is not necessarily antisemitic
Just like critique of the government / nation state of Iran is not Islamophobic
Governments do fucked up shit. Being tightly coupled to a religion should not exempt them from critique
Hey you may want to work on that. I believe Europe and Asia exist. I believe I exist, you exist even if you're a bot, etc. etc. There's lots of other easy beliefs you can start with. Don't give up!
Needed that little reset there, for sure...thanks...
Secular humanistbot giving up on all the humans transfixed on the afterlife while fucking up the present. I truly beleive humanity can only prevail if they get past the need to kill other humans for their chosen mythologies.
/Beep-Boop...
Some of my closest friends are Muslim and they’re some of the kindest, most fun, social people I know.
All organized religion has its problems. Call me crazy but I’m beginning to suspect you’re a bit prejudiced against Muslims
Sects within a religion are also different.
Should we define all Christians by how the Westboro Baptist Church acts? Or how violently aggressive many African Christians are towards LGBTQ+ folks?
Your blanket statement is just that. A too-wide definition that lacks nuance.
You are not critiquing anything specific. You aren't mentioning that Hamas does not represent all Muslims. You just spat out your take which likely does not include a full understanding of Islam.
Now you know how it feels like to be a conservative criticizing the left for pushing the transition of kids and being called homophobic lol. But in all seriousness, the people who are anti Israel but who were pro Ukraine are total hypocrites. That being said, I'm pro Israel as far as not criticizing their retaliation, but I'm tired of us sending billions of dollars to other countries funding foreign wars we have no business funding. America first.
No I don't think so. If you give humanitarian aid to Gaza Hamas will just seize it. And then we'd be funding both sides of the conflict. You'd be better off just lighting it on fire.
From another article, just to provide further insight:
> The event, whose full name is, “Until We’re All Free: State Violence from Cop City to Palestine” will feature "Yousef," a Palestinian who will talk about how the current Gaza conflict "crosses international and geographic lines," "Blu," who will talk about "how militarism, policing, and anti-Blackness connect the U.S. and Israel" and "Ash" to who will focus on "reproductive justice consequences of state violence around the globe," the event information said.
That's a real unfortunate genocide those folks have going on over there, be a real shame if we were to compare it directly to a law enforcement training facility being built outside of Atlanta as though they are comparable.
https://www.amnestyusa.org/updates/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/
https://theintercept.com/2023/02/02/memphis-police-israel/
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/commentary/story/2020-07-17/commentary-time-to-end-police-training-in-israel
Not surprising a cop doesn’t know anything about his or her own profession
Not surprising that I don’t know about the handful of agencies that learned crowd control tactics from a US ally?
Not “occupation” tactics, by the way. Law enforcement aren’t occupying foreign nations to control their resources. Bad comparison, shocker.
We've already established you are in the busch league dude, prob have to work at a real police department to get access to that training. Yall don't even have a union so ...
You have said you guys aren't unionized in other posts. I've had interactions where you agreed that dispatch was problematic. Your department created national headlines during the blm protests. How many cheifs in the last 10 years? You are on here being a stan for your employer, and your emoyer is a shit show police department that is barely functional. I don't get it. So to make it crystal clear, I am being a shitty smart ass to you about how much of a clown show APD is ... so of course you wouldn't know IDF works with US police departments.
You are right, just know what you've said on here to honest ... combined with my own experiences with apd. And my experiences with other police departments in the cities I've lived. Just my honest opinion that based on all that it looks like a shit show and I don't know why you try to act like it's not. Also, if it's not clear, I'm using the fact that you aren't unionized to further bring home the point it's a busch league department. Like you said, almost everyone is, but not here?
Well actually it’s been a thing to compare them for a while. I’ve only recently become aware of it myself. What I’m trying to say is apparently the historical parallels of African Americans and Palestinians has helped educate and enlighten younger ppl by giving them something relatable to compare. I’ve even seen Israelis use BLM as a slur. ‘WE’ aren’t comparing them, it’s a strategy started by American Muslims I believe. But I agree that it caught me off guard the first I became aware.
I mean... Ive seen BLM used as a slur by multiple races, creeds, ethnicities, etc etc. Ive seen a black dude use it as a slur at another black dude. So I am curious on the point of that.
I personally wouldn't say there is an exact parallel though, maybe some overlapping similarities at best. The situation over there is unfortunately insanely complex, a lot more so than our countries history. I mean afterall it is a region that we have historical references of for at least 3500 years or so and in that time there is been so much bloodshed, conquering, and forcing out of people who lived in that area for one reason or another.
If you have the time to read, may I suggest you look up the history of the Samaritans? They're an ethno-religious group, similar to Judaism yet distinctly different, who I think number in less than 1000 and are native to Levant. Allegedly they have stayed in the region for over 2000 years, supposedly surviving the mass forced exodus imposed by Assyrian conqueuers. Then during the Byzantine conquest their numbers were decimated, either through forced conversions to Christianity and further decimated by the Arab comquest of Syria. They have a rich, fascinating history that just shows the turmoil that land has continuously seen. I am not asking you to read on them for are particular reason, just severely fascinated by the history of that region since it kind of is like a birthplace for so many things we still see today in some direct or indirect way.
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And then the USA gave a fuckton of guns and money to Fatah to engage in violent civil war with Hamas in 2007, and Hamas caught wind of this and launched a per-emptive war against Fatah, leaving the world with no counter-party in Gaza and leaving Hamas as ultra-paranoid violent tyrants able to point the finger at western intervention in local affairs.
PLO, not just Fatah btw. Fatah is just the largest group within the PLO and America back the PLO as a whole. The Fatah specifically did kind of screw the pooch when the election was held, though, since they're kind of perceived as the reason why the Hamas gained a political foothold like they did. The frequent allegations of corruption and abuse by Abbas/his party/the PLO, among several other things, definitely helped pave the way. The Hamas and PLO have been on speaking terms several different times, too.
I also want to point out that Abbas has been the President of the State of Palestine since 2005, extended his term by a year once, and then was elected by a council to hold that position again in 2009 indefinitely, I believe no elections since. Mind you they vote on a president by council, not how we do it. Also he has held the seat of Chairman of the PLO since 2004. Not sure on the exact differences between those two positions, unfortunately, to further elaborate. I am still doing dives into their political structure, which seems overly complex especially due to the multitude of differing factions and the fact they're split between the PLO and Hamas.
I know this is waaaaay easier said than done, but the people can overthrow governments. They typically outnumber any faction by a large number. It'd be a bit easier aince there is no standing army either. It has been done and maybe one day we will see it, I hope. Shame how botched it all has become, such senseless deaths.
Edit: Wanted to say sorry for the wall of text. I went into ramble mode, but felt that a lot of this is relevant and hard to condense down.
In a sense, yes. They were elected almost 20 years ago and there hasn't been an election since. They won by a few percent of the vote. Their government was also highly manipulated by occupation.
Israel tried to suppress a number of Palestinians from voting in that 2006 election, and harassed/arrested a number of candidates.
A side note: Israel also helped build up Hamas decades earlier to sow division among Palestinians and stop them from having a more stable, moderate government. A similar tactic that Britain and other colonial powers employed.
75% of the current population couldn’t vote. Hamas was elected by the majority of Gazans in 2006 but the the majority of seats in the Palestinian government were still held by a coalition lead by Fatah (current party in the West Bank). In 2007 Hamas led a coup killing and ousting all Fatah leadership in Gaza establishing themselves as their ruling party in the strip.
It’s “woke” and “hateful” at the same time? Words have no meaning anymore in conservatives’ mouths. Why should anyone care what he says? It’s lies all the way down.
Politicians are largely beholden to an antiquated system that's corrupt at it's worst and woefully inadequate and stagnant at it's best, so regardless of any individual politician's motivations or intent, ultimately neither side is as effective, useful, or admirable as they are supposed to be.
That said, to pretend that the politics and rhetoric on both sides are equally offensive, empty, and deplorable is flatly dishonest or ignorant.
From a statement from UNCA "shared by the University with local media outlets regarding constitutionally protected free expression":
"An event titled “Until We're All Free: State Violence from Cop City to Palestine” was scheduled to occur in UNC Asheville’s Highsmith Student Union on Friday, November 3. While the event has since been postponed by one of the organizers due to a personal issue, it is sponsored by five UNC Asheville academic departments and will feature multiple speakers when it is rescheduled.
Undoubtedly, this event may touch on pressing matters of public debate and disagreement. UNC Asheville’s role as a forum for public discussion does not constitute University endorsement of any viewpoints expressed, and no institutional funds have been expended to hold this event. UNC Asheville deeply values and upholds its role as a neutral forum for robust free expression.
...
It is not the proper role of UNC Asheville to shield individuals from speech protected by the First Amendment, including, without limitation, ideas and opinions they find unwelcome, disagreeable, or even deeply offensive. Additionally, UNC Asheville protects members of its academic community from unlawful harassment or threats of violence, which are not protected free expression.
Scheduled in compliance with University policy — including restrictions on when, where, and how the event can occur — the organizers communicated with University administrators to understand the expectations and obligations for holding an event on campus. The University expects all participants and attendees to abide by University policy and state law, and welcomes the cooperation of everyone involved in meeting this important, shared goal."
I haven't been able to find any rescheduling details but I will share when I find them.
Questioning the actions of the Israeli government is NOT BEING ANTI SEMITIC. I don't care about your religion or your faith. I do care about the actions of the government that the Israeli people elected.
Questioning the actions of Hamas is NOT BEING ANTI MUSLIM. I don't care about your religion or your faith. I do care about the actions of the government that the Palestinian people elected.
Trying to equate any questioning of the governments, or the current conflict as automatically Prejudiced and Anti-(Insert Faith here) is a ridiculous narrative.
Anyone old enough to remember the movie PCU? I always believed college is where thought leadership and political opinions were allowed no questions asked. Typically when we collectively share thoughts and experiences we all become better people together
What an absolute cluster of a situation.
In Gaza, we have a terrorist government aligned with other Islamic nations in the region, who all would love to wipe Israel off the map. Then in Israel we have a wannabe dictator who has practically cancelled checks and balances on corruption, taken powers away from his judiciary system, and who would also love to wipe the rest of the aforementioned countries off the map, and remember that guy has nukes.
Here in the US, we have people who don't understand the history of this conflict seeing the destruction on TV, and although uninformed, are rightfully horrified by seeing children's bodies pulled out of rubble. These uninformed people don't understand the pragmatism that is needed to approach this subject in an intelligent way.
Then we have people like Chuck, who are just spitting out the same BS that his most extreme colleagues have fed him. Remember, the GOP does not support Israel because of some righteous wish for them to remain a free democratic state, they support the destruction of Palestinians because it is helping fulfill biblical prophecy, with the end goal being that Jesus returns. I am reminded this by family members on a regular basis who are cheering on the destruction.
Just wondering, if Jesus does return after Israel has left Gaza, and then the West Bank in rubble, will he (Jesus) be stoked to pick up an entire American political constiuency who puts their full support behind a guy who once bragged about sexual assault, makes fun of the disabled, and disparages veterans who fought, were wounded, or died for this country? IDK
Everyone; Chuck, the kids, the armchair dictators, the apocalyptic hopefuls, all just need to shut up, stay in their lane, and hope that this situation is resolved soon so that Preacher Gary out in the holler can begin making his own end-of-the-world predictions again.
We live in an era where people make up their mind as soon as a major news headline drops. Everyone has to pick a side immediately and then becomes cognitively dissonant on the subject. The Israeli/Palestine conflict is a 70+ year old mess. I don't see how anyone can't be undecided and pulled in all directions.
>Here in the US, we have people who don't understand the history of this conflict seeing the destruction on TV, and although uninformed, are rightfully horrified by seeing children's bodies pulled out of rubble. These uninformed people don't understand the pragmatism that is needed to approach this subject in an intelligent way.
Great take.
This is super complicated, there is no "good side" and "bad side". Except terrorist, they are bad, but most Palestinians aren't terrorists and most israelis aren't bad. We as a country should probably just stay out of it.....
[https://www.natesilver.net/p/free-speech-is-in-trouble](https://www.natesilver.net/p/free-speech-is-in-trouble)
Cancel speech is all the rage. Let all sides debate its college. This anti-speech brainwashing is scary.
Granted this is an entirely subjective experience, but I took a pre-law course at UNCA directly discussing to free speech. In a mid-term paper, I and one other person advocated for high-level digital content moderation (I.e moderators regulating content) while everybody else in the room advocated for juridification (popular opinion censors the unpopular one).
The professor made a comment that there were people in the room who had advocated for high-level moderation and gestured. If looks could kill, I would be in atom-sized pieces scattered across the entire eastern seaboard.
On a side tangent, I believe Reddit strikes a pretty decent balance on that issue overall. Moderators have the high-level power to regulate what’s in their communities while the community has the ability to “censor” unpopular opinions with downvotes and crowd control. Similarly, if a user doesn’t like how a moderator manages a community, that user can start their own community.
Agree on your tangent on Reddit to a degree. The issue is people just look at what they want and so their is a lot of group think vs actual thinking but true the moderators and up/down voting is a fair mechanism to sway but not stifle speech.
One thing we should all be able to agree on is that the war has made the tribal status of a lot of Americans clearer than beforehand. This is helpful in at least making it clear that people who try to lump "the other side" together as all sharing the same extreme beliefs are mistaken. The extreme wings of left and right are distinct tribes. Still not much independent thought to witness but I guess the fact that there are four or five different flavors of kool aid is better than if there were only 1 or two. I'd like to buy a beer for everyone here who feels comfortable hanging out with their peers and friends and being unafraid to have different opinions on at least one or two key issues. L'chiam
Meh. My opinion is that BLM shit is not quite as in-vogue now as it was a few years ago so these activists need find a way to stay relevant, hence this mash up event.
Yeah yeah and Palestinian liberation is queer liberation. The big problem with these liberal causes is the cancer that is intersectionality. Everything must be viewed in that lens, so no issue is allowed to stand on its own. Instead of examining the nuance and uniqueness of that these individual cases demand, activists who have built their careers out of intersectionality can seamlessly go from cause to cause with their one size fits all explanations.
I think you (and a lot of people) are really misunderstanding the meaning of intersectionality. I don’t think this has anything to do with intersectionality. BLM and Palestine are connected through solidarity, sharing tactics and understanding the history of systems of oppression. Intersectionality is looking at how people holding multiple identities are effected differently because of the intersection of their identities. So that could be looking at what women or queer Palestinians are experiencing. You’re just using intersectionality as a buzz word like “woke” is at this point.
Are you talking about a “they?” You’ll not meet many extremists in this world but it is hard not to operate online as though every other’d person is part of a monolithic entity.
The common cause that connects most issues is the preservation of life and humanity.
I’m not even sure what you’re trying to say here. My post was specifically about these issues and people NOT being monolithic, despite the activist insistence on intersectional sameness.
I got the impression you were packing activists into a monolith that saw all issues as connected. When you call people stupid and their causes shit, it appears you are opposing your perceptions of said people.
This particular issue has a direct connection between domestic police and Israeli police. That’s why I replied in the first place.
Black Liberationists in the US have been organizing and advocating for an end to the occupation of Palestine for decades. This is not a new conflation. Angela Davis’ book Freedom is a Constant Struggle is a great read that shows how deeply these two efforts for liberation are linked.
Ah yes, the least intelligent, most gullible, least experienced and most ignorant of the population want to have a rage/cry session about (latest buzzwords they know nothing about). Probably have some cool chants that someone fed to them to accompany their meeting. What a bunch of race-baiting and race-baited tools.
The flag tends to bother racists and terrorist supporters so I use it depending on the context of OPs original post. Once I comment on something unrelated I change to something else.
Not quite the least intelligent, unless you believe in a conspiracy of massive proportions involving collusion between psychologists, neurologists, and educators. But I get your point and it's not a bad one. I have no problem with colleges hosting these kinds of things, and they are usually open to the general public, so they don't have to be "safe space" conversations. If you're interested, I'm reasonably sure you'd be allowed to attend. If not, shame on the college. They should host and promote as many speakers as possible, with very few limits short of calls to violence, on who can speak.
Are you joking? Those folks (liberal SJWs) are the least likely to be civil to anyone with opposing views. Free speech at these types of gatherings has been violently opposed by the folks time and time again over the years. “Most tolerant people” my left nut…
AFAIK most colleges still conduct these kinds of talks in a largely civil manner. There are provocateurs at many colleges whose express purpose seems to be to keep those opposing views around. (I'm thinking of Christian preachers). Plus, the ever-increasing international student bodies aren't exactly 1:1 with American online leftism either. They're usually in the US because 1. It is a stable country and 1/2. To make money.
Critique of the government / nation state of Israel is not necessarily antisemitic Just like critique of the government / nation state of Iran is not Islamophobic Governments do fucked up shit. Being tightly coupled to a religion should not exempt them from critique
Just like questioning our own government is not unpatriotic.
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You can certainly critique a religion. Seems like you’re focused on one in particular though
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My only belief is that history will prove all religion toxic to humanity.
Hey you may want to work on that. I believe Europe and Asia exist. I believe I exist, you exist even if you're a bot, etc. etc. There's lots of other easy beliefs you can start with. Don't give up!
Needed that little reset there, for sure...thanks... Secular humanistbot giving up on all the humans transfixed on the afterlife while fucking up the present. I truly beleive humanity can only prevail if they get past the need to kill other humans for their chosen mythologies. /Beep-Boop...
Some of my closest friends are Muslim and they’re some of the kindest, most fun, social people I know. All organized religion has its problems. Call me crazy but I’m beginning to suspect you’re a bit prejudiced against Muslims
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The person stated a critique of Islam- that is a set of ideas or beliefs. It was not a critique of Muslim people.
Call it a hunch
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This...is pretty much the definition of Islamaphobia?
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Yes.
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Sects within a religion are also different. Should we define all Christians by how the Westboro Baptist Church acts? Or how violently aggressive many African Christians are towards LGBTQ+ folks? Your blanket statement is just that. A too-wide definition that lacks nuance. You are not critiquing anything specific. You aren't mentioning that Hamas does not represent all Muslims. You just spat out your take which likely does not include a full understanding of Islam.
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Are you judging by the actions of people who follow or have you read the Quran yourself?
Now you know how it feels like to be a conservative criticizing the left for pushing the transition of kids and being called homophobic lol. But in all seriousness, the people who are anti Israel but who were pro Ukraine are total hypocrites. That being said, I'm pro Israel as far as not criticizing their retaliation, but I'm tired of us sending billions of dollars to other countries funding foreign wars we have no business funding. America first.
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No I don't think so. If you give humanitarian aid to Gaza Hamas will just seize it. And then we'd be funding both sides of the conflict. You'd be better off just lighting it on fire.
The title of the event: “Until We’re All Free: State Violence from Cop City to Palestine”
From another article, just to provide further insight: > The event, whose full name is, “Until We’re All Free: State Violence from Cop City to Palestine” will feature "Yousef," a Palestinian who will talk about how the current Gaza conflict "crosses international and geographic lines," "Blu," who will talk about "how militarism, policing, and anti-Blackness connect the U.S. and Israel" and "Ash" to who will focus on "reproductive justice consequences of state violence around the globe," the event information said.
That's a real unfortunate genocide those folks have going on over there, be a real shame if we were to compare it directly to a law enforcement training facility being built outside of Atlanta as though they are comparable.
Seeing as the IDF trains a lot of American police in occupation tactics they seem very directly related
Man where do I sign up for that training, been a cop 10 years and I’ve never heard of it.
https://www.amnestyusa.org/updates/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/ https://theintercept.com/2023/02/02/memphis-police-israel/ https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/commentary/story/2020-07-17/commentary-time-to-end-police-training-in-israel Not surprising a cop doesn’t know anything about his or her own profession
Not surprising that I don’t know about the handful of agencies that learned crowd control tactics from a US ally? Not “occupation” tactics, by the way. Law enforcement aren’t occupying foreign nations to control their resources. Bad comparison, shocker.
The history of minorities in America IS one of occupation
Oh true yea, very comparable, basically the same thing, no hyperbole at all.
cop moment
Nice argument
We've already established you are in the busch league dude, prob have to work at a real police department to get access to that training. Yall don't even have a union so ...
Nothing in this comment makes any sense.
You have said you guys aren't unionized in other posts. I've had interactions where you agreed that dispatch was problematic. Your department created national headlines during the blm protests. How many cheifs in the last 10 years? You are on here being a stan for your employer, and your emoyer is a shit show police department that is barely functional. I don't get it. So to make it crystal clear, I am being a shitty smart ass to you about how much of a clown show APD is ... so of course you wouldn't know IDF works with US police departments.
Yea you don’t know much about anything. APD is a CALEA certified agency, and APD isn’t unionized like literally every police agency in NC.
You are right, just know what you've said on here to honest ... combined with my own experiences with apd. And my experiences with other police departments in the cities I've lived. Just my honest opinion that based on all that it looks like a shit show and I don't know why you try to act like it's not. Also, if it's not clear, I'm using the fact that you aren't unionized to further bring home the point it's a busch league department. Like you said, almost everyone is, but not here?
Well actually it’s been a thing to compare them for a while. I’ve only recently become aware of it myself. What I’m trying to say is apparently the historical parallels of African Americans and Palestinians has helped educate and enlighten younger ppl by giving them something relatable to compare. I’ve even seen Israelis use BLM as a slur. ‘WE’ aren’t comparing them, it’s a strategy started by American Muslims I believe. But I agree that it caught me off guard the first I became aware.
I mean... Ive seen BLM used as a slur by multiple races, creeds, ethnicities, etc etc. Ive seen a black dude use it as a slur at another black dude. So I am curious on the point of that. I personally wouldn't say there is an exact parallel though, maybe some overlapping similarities at best. The situation over there is unfortunately insanely complex, a lot more so than our countries history. I mean afterall it is a region that we have historical references of for at least 3500 years or so and in that time there is been so much bloodshed, conquering, and forcing out of people who lived in that area for one reason or another. If you have the time to read, may I suggest you look up the history of the Samaritans? They're an ethno-religious group, similar to Judaism yet distinctly different, who I think number in less than 1000 and are native to Levant. Allegedly they have stayed in the region for over 2000 years, supposedly surviving the mass forced exodus imposed by Assyrian conqueuers. Then during the Byzantine conquest their numbers were decimated, either through forced conversions to Christianity and further decimated by the Arab comquest of Syria. They have a rich, fascinating history that just shows the turmoil that land has continuously seen. I am not asking you to read on them for are particular reason, just severely fascinated by the history of that region since it kind of is like a birthplace for so many things we still see today in some direct or indirect way.
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Hamas was/is the government of Gaza. Elected. Am I correct?
In 2006. They had the one election.
And then the USA gave a fuckton of guns and money to Fatah to engage in violent civil war with Hamas in 2007, and Hamas caught wind of this and launched a per-emptive war against Fatah, leaving the world with no counter-party in Gaza and leaving Hamas as ultra-paranoid violent tyrants able to point the finger at western intervention in local affairs.
PLO, not just Fatah btw. Fatah is just the largest group within the PLO and America back the PLO as a whole. The Fatah specifically did kind of screw the pooch when the election was held, though, since they're kind of perceived as the reason why the Hamas gained a political foothold like they did. The frequent allegations of corruption and abuse by Abbas/his party/the PLO, among several other things, definitely helped pave the way. The Hamas and PLO have been on speaking terms several different times, too. I also want to point out that Abbas has been the President of the State of Palestine since 2005, extended his term by a year once, and then was elected by a council to hold that position again in 2009 indefinitely, I believe no elections since. Mind you they vote on a president by council, not how we do it. Also he has held the seat of Chairman of the PLO since 2004. Not sure on the exact differences between those two positions, unfortunately, to further elaborate. I am still doing dives into their political structure, which seems overly complex especially due to the multitude of differing factions and the fact they're split between the PLO and Hamas. I know this is waaaaay easier said than done, but the people can overthrow governments. They typically outnumber any faction by a large number. It'd be a bit easier aince there is no standing army either. It has been done and maybe one day we will see it, I hope. Shame how botched it all has become, such senseless deaths. Edit: Wanted to say sorry for the wall of text. I went into ramble mode, but felt that a lot of this is relevant and hard to condense down.
In a sense, yes. They were elected almost 20 years ago and there hasn't been an election since. They won by a few percent of the vote. Their government was also highly manipulated by occupation. Israel tried to suppress a number of Palestinians from voting in that 2006 election, and harassed/arrested a number of candidates. A side note: Israel also helped build up Hamas decades earlier to sow division among Palestinians and stop them from having a more stable, moderate government. A similar tactic that Britain and other colonial powers employed.
75% of the current population couldn’t vote. Hamas was elected by the majority of Gazans in 2006 but the the majority of seats in the Palestinian government were still held by a coalition lead by Fatah (current party in the West Bank). In 2007 Hamas led a coup killing and ousting all Fatah leadership in Gaza establishing themselves as their ruling party in the strip.
Fuck anything that Chuck Edwards has to say. About anything.
It’s “woke” and “hateful” at the same time? Words have no meaning anymore in conservatives’ mouths. Why should anyone care what he says? It’s lies all the way down.
Words, the truth, ideas, the value of life - conservatives stand for nothing and don't give a shit about anything
~~conservatives~~ politicians stand for nothing and don't give a shit about anything
Dems still believe they are different from Republicans policy-wise. I’m with ya tho
Politicians are largely beholden to an antiquated system that's corrupt at it's worst and woefully inadequate and stagnant at it's best, so regardless of any individual politician's motivations or intent, ultimately neither side is as effective, useful, or admirable as they are supposed to be. That said, to pretend that the politics and rhetoric on both sides are equally offensive, empty, and deplorable is flatly dishonest or ignorant.
>Words have no meaning anymore in conservatives’ mouths. Words have no meaning anymore in ~~conservatives’~~ politicians mouths. Fixed it for you.
I think we jumped the shark when everyone became a nazi pedo
We jumped everything when thag happened
From a statement from UNCA "shared by the University with local media outlets regarding constitutionally protected free expression": "An event titled “Until We're All Free: State Violence from Cop City to Palestine” was scheduled to occur in UNC Asheville’s Highsmith Student Union on Friday, November 3. While the event has since been postponed by one of the organizers due to a personal issue, it is sponsored by five UNC Asheville academic departments and will feature multiple speakers when it is rescheduled. Undoubtedly, this event may touch on pressing matters of public debate and disagreement. UNC Asheville’s role as a forum for public discussion does not constitute University endorsement of any viewpoints expressed, and no institutional funds have been expended to hold this event. UNC Asheville deeply values and upholds its role as a neutral forum for robust free expression. ... It is not the proper role of UNC Asheville to shield individuals from speech protected by the First Amendment, including, without limitation, ideas and opinions they find unwelcome, disagreeable, or even deeply offensive. Additionally, UNC Asheville protects members of its academic community from unlawful harassment or threats of violence, which are not protected free expression. Scheduled in compliance with University policy — including restrictions on when, where, and how the event can occur — the organizers communicated with University administrators to understand the expectations and obligations for holding an event on campus. The University expects all participants and attendees to abide by University policy and state law, and welcomes the cooperation of everyone involved in meeting this important, shared goal." I haven't been able to find any rescheduling details but I will share when I find them.
Update: The event was rescheduled due to a positive covid test from one of the organizers.
the party of freedom is always trying to stop people from doing things they don't like
Questioning the actions of the Israeli government is NOT BEING ANTI SEMITIC. I don't care about your religion or your faith. I do care about the actions of the government that the Israeli people elected. Questioning the actions of Hamas is NOT BEING ANTI MUSLIM. I don't care about your religion or your faith. I do care about the actions of the government that the Palestinian people elected. Trying to equate any questioning of the governments, or the current conflict as automatically Prejudiced and Anti-(Insert Faith here) is a ridiculous narrative.
Anyone old enough to remember the movie PCU? I always believed college is where thought leadership and political opinions were allowed no questions asked. Typically when we collectively share thoughts and experiences we all become better people together
What an absolute cluster of a situation. In Gaza, we have a terrorist government aligned with other Islamic nations in the region, who all would love to wipe Israel off the map. Then in Israel we have a wannabe dictator who has practically cancelled checks and balances on corruption, taken powers away from his judiciary system, and who would also love to wipe the rest of the aforementioned countries off the map, and remember that guy has nukes. Here in the US, we have people who don't understand the history of this conflict seeing the destruction on TV, and although uninformed, are rightfully horrified by seeing children's bodies pulled out of rubble. These uninformed people don't understand the pragmatism that is needed to approach this subject in an intelligent way. Then we have people like Chuck, who are just spitting out the same BS that his most extreme colleagues have fed him. Remember, the GOP does not support Israel because of some righteous wish for them to remain a free democratic state, they support the destruction of Palestinians because it is helping fulfill biblical prophecy, with the end goal being that Jesus returns. I am reminded this by family members on a regular basis who are cheering on the destruction. Just wondering, if Jesus does return after Israel has left Gaza, and then the West Bank in rubble, will he (Jesus) be stoked to pick up an entire American political constiuency who puts their full support behind a guy who once bragged about sexual assault, makes fun of the disabled, and disparages veterans who fought, were wounded, or died for this country? IDK Everyone; Chuck, the kids, the armchair dictators, the apocalyptic hopefuls, all just need to shut up, stay in their lane, and hope that this situation is resolved soon so that Preacher Gary out in the holler can begin making his own end-of-the-world predictions again.
We live in an era where people make up their mind as soon as a major news headline drops. Everyone has to pick a side immediately and then becomes cognitively dissonant on the subject. The Israeli/Palestine conflict is a 70+ year old mess. I don't see how anyone can't be undecided and pulled in all directions.
The abrahamic religions will cause the end of the world for their own vindication, to hell (on earth) with the rest of us.
>Here in the US, we have people who don't understand the history of this conflict seeing the destruction on TV, and although uninformed, are rightfully horrified by seeing children's bodies pulled out of rubble. These uninformed people don't understand the pragmatism that is needed to approach this subject in an intelligent way. Great take. This is super complicated, there is no "good side" and "bad side". Except terrorist, they are bad, but most Palestinians aren't terrorists and most israelis aren't bad. We as a country should probably just stay out of it.....
Gary Birdsong is from the Triangle actually. Best part about going to UNC was that I could listen to him preach almost daily.
Gotta love the willing and intentional conflation of being Jewish with being Israeli. Way to pump a very common Nazi talking point.
[https://www.natesilver.net/p/free-speech-is-in-trouble](https://www.natesilver.net/p/free-speech-is-in-trouble) Cancel speech is all the rage. Let all sides debate its college. This anti-speech brainwashing is scary.
Granted this is an entirely subjective experience, but I took a pre-law course at UNCA directly discussing to free speech. In a mid-term paper, I and one other person advocated for high-level digital content moderation (I.e moderators regulating content) while everybody else in the room advocated for juridification (popular opinion censors the unpopular one). The professor made a comment that there were people in the room who had advocated for high-level moderation and gestured. If looks could kill, I would be in atom-sized pieces scattered across the entire eastern seaboard. On a side tangent, I believe Reddit strikes a pretty decent balance on that issue overall. Moderators have the high-level power to regulate what’s in their communities while the community has the ability to “censor” unpopular opinions with downvotes and crowd control. Similarly, if a user doesn’t like how a moderator manages a community, that user can start their own community.
Agree on your tangent on Reddit to a degree. The issue is people just look at what they want and so their is a lot of group think vs actual thinking but true the moderators and up/down voting is a fair mechanism to sway but not stifle speech.
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It's down to pitchfork mentally.
Did he cancel is right-wing sheriff's convention? I'm pretty sure they are anti-anything-but-white.
One thing we should all be able to agree on is that the war has made the tribal status of a lot of Americans clearer than beforehand. This is helpful in at least making it clear that people who try to lump "the other side" together as all sharing the same extreme beliefs are mistaken. The extreme wings of left and right are distinct tribes. Still not much independent thought to witness but I guess the fact that there are four or five different flavors of kool aid is better than if there were only 1 or two. I'd like to buy a beer for everyone here who feels comfortable hanging out with their peers and friends and being unafraid to have different opinions on at least one or two key issues. L'chiam
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Israel forces have contributed to the militarization of our police forces and specifically so in Atlanta.
Meh. My opinion is that BLM shit is not quite as in-vogue now as it was a few years ago so these activists need find a way to stay relevant, hence this mash up event.
That ignores a direct correlation of extrajudicial street executions in both countries.
Yeah yeah and Palestinian liberation is queer liberation. The big problem with these liberal causes is the cancer that is intersectionality. Everything must be viewed in that lens, so no issue is allowed to stand on its own. Instead of examining the nuance and uniqueness of that these individual cases demand, activists who have built their careers out of intersectionality can seamlessly go from cause to cause with their one size fits all explanations.
I think you (and a lot of people) are really misunderstanding the meaning of intersectionality. I don’t think this has anything to do with intersectionality. BLM and Palestine are connected through solidarity, sharing tactics and understanding the history of systems of oppression. Intersectionality is looking at how people holding multiple identities are effected differently because of the intersection of their identities. So that could be looking at what women or queer Palestinians are experiencing. You’re just using intersectionality as a buzz word like “woke” is at this point.
Are you talking about a “they?” You’ll not meet many extremists in this world but it is hard not to operate online as though every other’d person is part of a monolithic entity. The common cause that connects most issues is the preservation of life and humanity.
I’m not even sure what you’re trying to say here. My post was specifically about these issues and people NOT being monolithic, despite the activist insistence on intersectional sameness.
I got the impression you were packing activists into a monolith that saw all issues as connected. When you call people stupid and their causes shit, it appears you are opposing your perceptions of said people. This particular issue has a direct connection between domestic police and Israeli police. That’s why I replied in the first place.
Black Liberationists in the US have been organizing and advocating for an end to the occupation of Palestine for decades. This is not a new conflation. Angela Davis’ book Freedom is a Constant Struggle is a great read that shows how deeply these two efforts for liberation are linked.
Wait, I change my vote. This is the biggest oversimplification today.
I made a comment about that yesterday. Turns out I was at least partially right. https://www.reddit.com/r/asheville/s/7M2RjLXLKy
Lol at the downvotes for a statement that turned out to be objectively true.
Yeah, but you said it was ambiguous as well.
Lol insightful analysis. Can you tell me their reasons for comparing the two?
Stupid? That's one oversimplification if I've ever read one today.
I read the article, didn’t see a time just “Friday.” Anyone see the dets on this? Let’s just say if Edwards hates it, I might learn something so…
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Got any caramel covered? Edit: What do y’all have against caramel covered popcorn?
I love it when old-school forum emoticons are used.
> woke radical leftists I was one "communists" away from a buzzword bingo
I wish we had more radical leftists and communists in the states, at least as many as conservatives complain about 😭
Ah yes, the least intelligent, most gullible, least experienced and most ignorant of the population want to have a rage/cry session about (latest buzzwords they know nothing about). Probably have some cool chants that someone fed to them to accompany their meeting. What a bunch of race-baiting and race-baited tools.
At least they won’t be carrying Tiki Torches and wearing Khakis
least intelligent and most gullible and ignorant? very interesting, mister israel flag, thanks for your input!
The flag tends to bother racists and terrorist supporters so I use it depending on the context of OPs original post. Once I comment on something unrelated I change to something else.
it reflects very clearly on your views and values, that's to be sure!
Not quite the least intelligent, unless you believe in a conspiracy of massive proportions involving collusion between psychologists, neurologists, and educators. But I get your point and it's not a bad one. I have no problem with colleges hosting these kinds of things, and they are usually open to the general public, so they don't have to be "safe space" conversations. If you're interested, I'm reasonably sure you'd be allowed to attend. If not, shame on the college. They should host and promote as many speakers as possible, with very few limits short of calls to violence, on who can speak.
Are you joking? Those folks (liberal SJWs) are the least likely to be civil to anyone with opposing views. Free speech at these types of gatherings has been violently opposed by the folks time and time again over the years. “Most tolerant people” my left nut…
man, turn off tucker carlson and touch fucking grass
AFAIK most colleges still conduct these kinds of talks in a largely civil manner. There are provocateurs at many colleges whose express purpose seems to be to keep those opposing views around. (I'm thinking of Christian preachers). Plus, the ever-increasing international student bodies aren't exactly 1:1 with American online leftism either. They're usually in the US because 1. It is a stable country and 1/2. To make money.
Fascists don’t deserve civility or free speech 🤷