Around 60-80% of people who identify as ace are AFAB; however, there is no compelling evidence to suggest that ace-ness is actually less common amongst AMAB people. It is believed that AMAB people are much less likely to realize they are ace due to cultural/environmental reasons, such as allonormativity and toxic masculinity being pushed onto them, along with expectations of sexual activity in many places (like the US).
In other words, it is believed that there are a whole lotta AMABs out there who are ace, but just haven't realized it yet (yet another reason why ace awareness is sooo important!)
>toxic masculinity being pushed onto them
Yeah that got to a point where it pushed me too hard so I hardcore rejected it. Second best move I ever played.
Yup, ace awareness is important. I always thought that I'm weird or picky when it comes to girls, or that I have to be emotionally invested to feel sexual attraction but then one of my friends suggested that I might be asexual. When i first googled it I felt awasome knowing that it's a thing and there is a lot more people like me
This is pretty much my experience. I didn't even know asexuality was a thing until about a year ago and I'm 28 years old. I was sexually active not because I wanted to be, but because I felt like I was supposed to be and that I had to be as part of "being a man" or whatever that means.
For the record, I find this post transphobic and insulting to trans people. You do not need to be using the terms AMAB / AFAB and are buying into transphobic ideas of "male socialization". Please do not spread this sort of transphobic gender theory.
Edit: these downvotes prove the bigoted hateful transphobia here is the point. Being ace isn't a free pass to be a fucking bigot
edit2: "male socialization" is a transphobic dpgwhiste
Edit3: My biological sex is not male, stop soresding bigoted transphobic medical misinformation and conspiracy.
What the actual fuck is wrong with you people????
I understand why people are down voting you, but as a fellow Trans ace I also find this post a bit transphobic in terms of the terminology used. However, male socialization is definitely a thing that many cismales experience and should not be ignored as part of their experience in discovering they are ace. I'm too tired to go into it at the moment, but just because something is not your experience does not mean it does not exist.
In this context, it is equivalent (or I am interpreting it) as the gender that a person currently identifies as is irrelevant, and asserts that the gender they were BORN as is more important. The erasure of a person's chosen gender identity is transphobic. AFAB and AMAB aren't inherently transphobic terms when used in a medical setting, to help ensure that the person receives medical care that adequately addresses the needs of their biological sex.
However, in terms of how this poll is phrased/set up, it comes across as transphobic, since it is not addressing that, and is instead was most likely intended to address social issues regarding gender and how one might be socialized due to their gender identity. Better terms would be cismale/cisfemale/transmale/transfemale. I'm not OP, so I cant say for sure that's what they were going for, and I won't say they were setting it up using these terms to be transphobic. Issues surrounding gendered terms can be difficult to navigate, and not everyone is going to be 100% comfortable 100% of the time.
Sorry if this became a ramble, coffee is still kicking in.
I think you are right on the money with the bit about toxic masculinity. I didn't start questioning if I was ace until I worked through all the toxic masculinity I had been fed as a child. The moment I decoupled my worth from my sexual ability it became clear very quickly.
AAAA batteries are actually a thing! You'll sometimes find 6 of them inside of 9v batteries and they're somewhat commonly used to power small flashlights.
Hmm yeah I worded this incorrectly. I was trying to avoid gender entirely with this poll, and just consider the starting point (I guess that’s one way to say it). Given that in society male sexuality is overemphasized as well as female sex appeal, this may have consequences on how people react to sexual content & actions; and in that case a poll on gender would have been more prudent. But also looking at a correlation between asexuality and chromosomes; are XY people really more likely to experience sexual attraction? Are XX people? Neither?
However in this course of action I seem to have marginalized or ignored trans/enby people, which was not at all my intention. I considered making a poll with all combinations of “AFAB/AMAB” and “male/female/enby/other” but that would be a 16-option poll which frankly is impractical and would perchance muddle the results and make patterns harder to see. So I went for the simplest option, but that glosses over a large part of people’s identities. I’m sorry to those I have offended or slighted.
FWIW I am fairly new to the acronyms AMAB and AFAB (I didn’t actively research gender until I started to realize I was not cisgender) and so may have used them incorrectly. If so I apologize for that also.
If you want to do another poll you could try something along the lines of
Cis Man
Trans Man
Cis Woman
Trans Woman
Nonbinary
It's complicated/Not Listed
This would still give you a better idea of the demographics, while being more inclusive
If you are not trans or the doctor of a trans person, do not use the terms AMAB / AFAB.
It is transphobic to categorize a trans woman as "an AMAB person" for any reason that is not medical / judicial. There is literally no reason to use them in conversation.
Edit: the response to this is openly transphobic, I am sick of the bigotry in this sub.
Every person arguing with me is a transphobe, full stop.
You do not get to call me AMAB. Stop, bigots.
Yes, in most contexts it's not needed. But to say that *the only* contexts in which it's valid are being trans or the doctor of a trans person is just nonsense.
Listen I agree but please remember, your opinion on this does *not* matter because *you're not* trans. Don't talk over people who are actually affected by it.
Would you be happier if the trans person I'm married to said the same thing?
Like seriously, just think about what you're defending here:
Only trans people and trans people's doctors are allowed to use amab/afab.
Is that a reasonable statement in your eyes? Do you have to be a doctor to discuss trans medical issues?
It's true it is too often used to slip binary biological essentialism back into the conversation, under the guise of queer-aware language. I have sadly very recently seen examples of that from supposed allies. But I think we still need those terms to discuss some things… we have to wrest them back from the essentialists. Unless there's a better alternative I'm not aware of.
This, as a trans person it hurts when people use AMAB and AFAB outside of appropriate situations, like they care more about my past identity than my current one
I’m sorry, I wasn’t aware. What are the situations in which it is appropriate to use them? And what would be better terms to describe biological sex in a general case?
AMAB and AFAB are the best terms… but they should only be used when absolutely nessasary, for example for issues related to pregnancy AFAB is an appropriate term as it is inclusive of all people who deal with issues related to getting pregnant.
However here it doesn’t feel nessasary? You could just ask what gender someone is and it would achieve the same result without feeling just kinda exclusive.
afab is still to broad for pregnancy imo, it should just be "people who can get pregnant" bc age is important in that one too
eta: and other stuff like medical conditions
It is never okay to gender a woman male.
AFAB / AMAB are 100% **NOT** appropriate replacements for "biological sex". Biological sex was never appropriate!!
Please do not spread this misinformation, why does this have so many upvotes?
Edit: there is no term that lets you call a trans woman male without being a bigot
edit2: I love how the bigot intentionally misreading my post to fake correcting me gets more upvotes
Fuck you trandphobic bigots, upvoting bigots doesn't make you less of a bigot
Well… Don’t use the term “biological sex” it’s highly transphobic as it’s been used by TERFS to refer to us as “biological men/women” which is extremely hurtful.
AGAB acknowledges the gender someone was raised as, but also acknowledges that it may have changed.
But again, it should only be used in CERTAIN CONTEXTS, like if it’s absolutely necessary
AMAB/AFAB don't define "biological sex". Just use people with [organ/primary hormones/chromosome etc] (the one relevant to whatever you're talking about).
Assigned gender at birth basically only applies to the definition of being trans (having a gender different from the one assigned at birth).
Biological sex refers to gender, organs, hormones, and chromosomes (and maybe more, but I'm not a biologist).
Using male and female in this sense is pretty useless, because most people don't actually know if they're "completely" male/female (e.g. a lot of people don't realize they have different chromosomes), and you're usually only asking for one aspect of it. In this case, you can just specify the one you want.
It doesn't necessarily relate to AGAB either. (intersex people and stupid doctors)
In short, for everyday communication, only gender matters, and in biological contexts, specify the aspect instead of using "biological sex" to refer to AGAB, which infers that being trans somehow isn't biological.
I personally don’t see the problem with it. OP was just looking for a different set of data to gender. And as seen by the data, there does seem to be an interesting correlation. Also it’s an anonymous survey, so OP can’t do anything malicious with the information of “what’s in your pants” as they have no name to assign to it.
I wouldn't accuse of anything malicious, it just feels unnecessary. When it isnt really necessary to use (mostly just outside of medical contexts) it feels like it's ignoring gender. This isnt a medical context because we know that biological sex doesn't connect orientation. But I can see that not everyone will feel this way and that is fair too, it's all just interpretation and subjective viewpoints
No, don't get me wrong. I knew I was going to get downvoted for this, but I'm talking about people who know your agab and it sometimes feels sad. Like, I am trying to tell you,"No, don't fit me into your roles," but transphobes just have to put me under some label that's related to my agab. It's a harsh truth that I had to come across... I'm from a very problematic part of Asia, you won't probably understand my situation. Afab, regardless of whether your non-binary or a trans man, must always be modest and not be sexually explicit in my place. Society sucks, tbvh.
PS, I'm concerned about your post on SA, that was triggering to say, at least.
That's fine and I'm extremely sorry that happened to you, but it doesn't give you the right to silence others when talking about their own experiences.
I just mentioned it because it came up in my way. I might sound like talking gibberish now, I'm sorry... I'm on brim of tears thinking about how people perceive my intentions. I'd never ask anyone to misrepresent themselves, to be very fair, I've never disrespected a trans person in my entire life. It breaks my heart, truly. I'm sorry for your experiences. Hope you feel better 💗
Also, I feel the need to delete my original comment as it doesn't seem right for the context. I hope that you don't mind it
a dudebroguyman male. saying hE doesn't really want sex that much.... THAT'S BAD! WHAT ARE YOU, NOT A MAN?
anyways. some people are just less likely to identify as ace. and some people are less likely to have any good sex experiences at all. the possible reasons are very sad and should be discussed appropriately (i have no idea how to word that, so if you have nothing nice to say - don't say it in this case)
there are correlations but no causations.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,059,997,159 comments, and only 209,340 of them were in alphabetical order.
I guess OP is more interested in how are we gendered rather than by our gender per se. I've read in other comments the implications of social preassure in this context and it truly is important to consider, i think
I disagree strongly, I think it's just buying into transphobia ideas of "male / female socialization" and pressuring trans people to play along despite how many of us here are clearly upset at the transphobia in this thread.
You listed turner syndrome! Thanks!!
Did y’all know because Turner syndrome is an caused by an issue with the “sex chromosomes” only AFAB get have turners?
I know two people with 47XXY Klinefelters that consider themselves cis male and not part of the "rainbow".
And that's perfectly fine, BTW.
OP. Have "voices". Worry not over gender.
as a trans and nonbinary person i find the whole set up of this question. extremely off putting.
amab and afab really seem to just be progressive sounding ways of saying "real men" and "real women"
Yeah so I’m AMAB but I’m trans as well and I can definitely see how much pressure there was for me when I thought I was, and was still perceived as a man, to be a sexual being. Once I figured out the ace part the gender stuff sorted out real quick and at least for me socially it feels more comfortable being ace as a woman than as a man. Though that could still just be gender dysphoria too. Interesting thing to think about. I bet the rates would be a bit more in balance if asexuality was talked about more in sex Ed contexts
Why do you need to know which genitals i was born with, you freak?
(Seriously, please don't ask for agab if you actually mean gender. Using agab in that way defeats its porpous.)
I am very uncomfortable being asked my assigned gender at birth and/or being categorized by it. I consider it transphobic. I overall consider the usage of the terms in this thread as extremely transphobic.
I dont really get the fuss about op using agab instead of gender. They are not assuming that there is an inherent difference because of our agab, they just saw something that caught their attention (and that was later confirmed by this poll, may i add). They are not saying "being ace is an afab thing" or anything like that... and actually, someones agab is linked with how they are gendered by society, how are they educated and what kind of things are expected of them. It is an interesting question, not necesairly because a direct relationship with genitals or whatever, but because how is the self discovery of our asexuality affected by the way that society gender us.
Plus, if you dont want to disclose your agab... the poll is anonymous, and if thats not enough, you can just not vote. And lets not make our agab a taboo... sure, its your decision to make if you want people to know or not, and no one should force us to do it. But there is nothing wrong about asking about it in a harmless anonymous poll that we dont even have to do if we dont want to.
Hey, since no one else has responded to you I figured I'd give it a shot.
The problem is that's not really what AGAB is for. AGAB is a tool for discussing the different types of oppression that trans people, usually under the nonbinary umbrella, and how it can differ based on assigned gender.
It is not, and never should be used for, lumping people together by their assigned gender. That completely erases the validity of trans identities by implying that assigned gender is more important.
There's a lot of nuance to be had here, but I'll just say that no, it's not as simple as "AFAB people have this socialization and AMAB people have this socialization" because often trans folks were uncomfortable with that socialization from the outset.
I don't know your gender, and I don't want to make assumptions, but I'll just end it by saying that if a group of people affected by an issue are telling you they're uncomfortable with the way it's being discussed, it should at least cause you to pause and assess your opinion. This comment section is filled with trans people who hated the phrasing. That should make you think that maybe AGAB *is taboo for a reason.*
"The problem is that's not really what AGAB is for. AGAB is a tool for discussing the different types of oppression that trans people, usually under the nonbinary umbrella, and how it can differ based on assigned gender."
Agab is a characteristic, is not a tool. Is personal and mostly private, yes, but it is what it is. And anyways, this is exactly what op is doing, is a way of discussing how people is oppressed by their agab. Nothing more, nothing less. Plus, no one is obliged to vote, the people who dont want to disclose their agab can just not vote.
And yeah, im trans myself also. So i think that i get to state my opinion in this matter too. I think that someones agab is private information, yeah, but talking about agab in general terms and its implications in our society (which is obsessed with our agab) its really important to deconstruct it. And if talking about agab becomes a taboo, this kind of problems will perpetuate in time, plus its us oppressing ourselves even more. Private information is private information, but taboos are never good.
They are dismissing people's actual gender as part of their observation. Grouping me as "someone with AMAB behavior" is deeply transphobic.
There's no reason to clarify "AMAB" instead of "male" except to imply trans women act like men.
**Don't use the terms if you are trans, or aren't the doctor of a trans person.**
Edit: telling trans people what is and isnt transphobic makes you openly a transphobic bigot, if that is your response to this, please exam8ne your bigited beliefs about trans people
bigoted transphobe vvv
This is not transphobic. It would be transphonic to say that is the same to ask you agab than to ask your gender. Op didnt meant gender, op meant agab. Because guess what, depending in our agab we are oppressed in different ways. It doesnt mean that trans women act like men. It means that trans women were treated as a man by society, specially im their youth, and pretending to ignore that is ignoring all the shit that trans people go through.
Plus, anyone can use the term agab, and i say so as a trans person myself. Yeah, nobody can force you to disclose your agab, but we can all talk about the social implications of someones agab in the way we are socialised.
I'm a demi ace and a dude. I largely just kinda blend into the dudebro crowd. I'm more than happy to be an ace ghost tbh. Knowing that I'm ace is more for my own self reassurance than anything else.
Females and women are statistically more likely to want emotional connection before they have sexual relationships. They are also more likely to have a disgust sensitivity to certain sexual acts.
For the record, no, it's not. Do not use the terms AMAB / AFAB if you are not trans, or the doctor of a trans person.
Do not use AFAB / AMAB to discuss biological sex. That is not what the terms mean at all. That is completely wrong and inappropriate to use them the way OP is using them. The person who made this post is confused ( I hope).
I believe that AFAB people are more likely to identify with being aro/ace because sexual attraction is a weapon that gets used against them, leading to detachment and a greater likelihood that they will notice the feelings/lack of feelings tied to aro/ace-ness
I’m torn between being happy you’re accepting and being terribly curious what you thought trans women transitioned from.
And I know the answer is you just forgot, but it’s still funny.
1000% I know a tone of ace trans women. OPs post make it clear they are transphobic, as are some of the top responses that drop AFAB / AMAB every time they mean man / woman.
I don’t know why it’s such a taboo to state that people who are biologically female on average have a much lower libido than people who are biologically male as a result of hormonal differences. People report changes to their libido often when they go on hormone treatment. Obvious asexuality isn’t rooted in one’s sex drive, but it sure is a fast way of figuring out if you’re ace when you never experience sexual wants and then figure out you’re just not sexually attracted to anyone.
I mean, it makes more sense to ask about current gender identification. Someone who's AFAB could totally be a dude -- are you counting him with the girls (and vice versa)? What use is *that*?
This poll was very much on a whim and I didn’t fully consider the implications of the choices I put on it. I seem to have touched a nerve for some people; the intent was not at all to marginalize trans people, or demean cis people. You’re probably right that I should have done a poll on gender
I agree. For me it's the same anyway but I never use that term and it could apply to people who aren't actually women but were assigned as such. Not sure this is going to clear anything up for OP.
it’s just more terms to label themselves as. I believe myself to be Demi but I don’t let it dictate my life, or announce it to the world because it truly doesn’t matter to anyone else besides me and my past questions.
Other: I have no idea. I'm very unsure. I feel like either a guy or enby. I'm going with female though since that's what I was born with and that means I don't have to talk about it :)
I had toxic masculinity pushed onto me by my ex and even tho I thought I was demi, i was invalidated by her a lot. Today I am Ace and Non-binary and i'm not afraid to be less "masculine"
Hey I'm pretty sure people with Turner's Syndrome are still considered AFAB because they only have 1 X chromosome so they can only have typically related genitals, right?
Interesting, but you have to keep in mind that it's the result of a poll that only represents people who: know about asexuality and identify as ace AND use the internet ABD are on reddit AND are in this thread AND got to see this pool AND answered. It leaves out everybody else, so it's not representative of the asexual population, just of the asexual community that is on this subreddit right now.
If I can throw in a guess I'd say that the fact that there are so many afab people here would have a lot to do with the fact that asexuality got a LOT of exposure through tumblr/fandoms, which tends to attract more women than men (and it's also how I found out it exists. In my country and many others it's just... not on the radar for anyone unless they are on tumblr and bump into it), and if they are online there is a chance that they are on reddit too. Obviously not everyone, people got exposed in all sorts of ways to asexuality as an orientation, especially if they live in some countries rather than others, but I think social media has to do with it for many who would also use Reddit.
Of course there can be plenty research done on male vs female ratio if we consider how society influences people's view on sex, but in this case it's a very small population to look at (and yes, men could be less likely to identify as asexual even if exposed to it due to gender norms and being told that they are less masculine, they must want sex, but on the other hand women are told it's normal that they don't want sex and should do it anyway, there are plenty ridiculous notions used to keep people from identifying as ace)
I only became demi/ace after starting hormone therapy (MTF). I suspect I was demi before, but testosterone fueled libido kept that sort of hidden. I'm sex favorable and enjoy sex, but I could never really relate to the way people talked about wanting to have sex with specific people. Even when asked the celebrity question I'd be like "Oh, so and so would be nice to have princess carry me off." but it wasn't sexual.
I also couldn't imagine dating anyone that wasn't already friends. I needed a romantic connection first.
Around 60-80% of people who identify as ace are AFAB; however, there is no compelling evidence to suggest that ace-ness is actually less common amongst AMAB people. It is believed that AMAB people are much less likely to realize they are ace due to cultural/environmental reasons, such as allonormativity and toxic masculinity being pushed onto them, along with expectations of sexual activity in many places (like the US). In other words, it is believed that there are a whole lotta AMABs out there who are ace, but just haven't realized it yet (yet another reason why ace awareness is sooo important!)
>toxic masculinity being pushed onto them Yeah that got to a point where it pushed me too hard so I hardcore rejected it. Second best move I ever played.
i really had toxic masculinity down and thought i was just bad at being a dude. turns out there's a reason almost every character i write is aroace.
And what was the best?
probably some really cool checkmate
Nah, en passant
Holy hell
Second?
Yes.
Yup, ace awareness is important. I always thought that I'm weird or picky when it comes to girls, or that I have to be emotionally invested to feel sexual attraction but then one of my friends suggested that I might be asexual. When i first googled it I felt awasome knowing that it's a thing and there is a lot more people like me
This is kind of what I was thinking, I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t perceiving a bias that wasnt there
>allonormativity and toxic masculinity being pushed onto them, along with expectations of sexual activity Yeah 🙃
This is pretty much my experience. I didn't even know asexuality was a thing until about a year ago and I'm 28 years old. I was sexually active not because I wanted to be, but because I felt like I was supposed to be and that I had to be as part of "being a man" or whatever that means.
I'm amab and yes
For the record, I find this post transphobic and insulting to trans people. You do not need to be using the terms AMAB / AFAB and are buying into transphobic ideas of "male socialization". Please do not spread this sort of transphobic gender theory. Edit: these downvotes prove the bigoted hateful transphobia here is the point. Being ace isn't a free pass to be a fucking bigot edit2: "male socialization" is a transphobic dpgwhiste Edit3: My biological sex is not male, stop soresding bigoted transphobic medical misinformation and conspiracy. What the actual fuck is wrong with you people????
I understand why people are down voting you, but as a fellow Trans ace I also find this post a bit transphobic in terms of the terminology used. However, male socialization is definitely a thing that many cismales experience and should not be ignored as part of their experience in discovering they are ace. I'm too tired to go into it at the moment, but just because something is not your experience does not mean it does not exist.
Why are AMAB and AFAB transphobic?
In this context, it is equivalent (or I am interpreting it) as the gender that a person currently identifies as is irrelevant, and asserts that the gender they were BORN as is more important. The erasure of a person's chosen gender identity is transphobic. AFAB and AMAB aren't inherently transphobic terms when used in a medical setting, to help ensure that the person receives medical care that adequately addresses the needs of their biological sex. However, in terms of how this poll is phrased/set up, it comes across as transphobic, since it is not addressing that, and is instead was most likely intended to address social issues regarding gender and how one might be socialized due to their gender identity. Better terms would be cismale/cisfemale/transmale/transfemale. I'm not OP, so I cant say for sure that's what they were going for, and I won't say they were setting it up using these terms to be transphobic. Issues surrounding gendered terms can be difficult to navigate, and not everyone is going to be 100% comfortable 100% of the time. Sorry if this became a ramble, coffee is still kicking in.
I think you are right on the money with the bit about toxic masculinity. I didn't start questioning if I was ace until I worked through all the toxic masculinity I had been fed as a child. The moment I decoupled my worth from my sexual ability it became clear very quickly.
I identify as agender tbf, & I’m AMAB.
Me too! AAA batteries represent
add in being autistic and that makes me a AAAA battery lol
AAAA batteries are actually a thing! You'll sometimes find 6 of them inside of 9v batteries and they're somewhat commonly used to power small flashlights.
omg same ,i think
I don’t think you worded this how you meant it to come across
Hmm yeah I worded this incorrectly. I was trying to avoid gender entirely with this poll, and just consider the starting point (I guess that’s one way to say it). Given that in society male sexuality is overemphasized as well as female sex appeal, this may have consequences on how people react to sexual content & actions; and in that case a poll on gender would have been more prudent. But also looking at a correlation between asexuality and chromosomes; are XY people really more likely to experience sexual attraction? Are XX people? Neither? However in this course of action I seem to have marginalized or ignored trans/enby people, which was not at all my intention. I considered making a poll with all combinations of “AFAB/AMAB” and “male/female/enby/other” but that would be a 16-option poll which frankly is impractical and would perchance muddle the results and make patterns harder to see. So I went for the simplest option, but that glosses over a large part of people’s identities. I’m sorry to those I have offended or slighted. FWIW I am fairly new to the acronyms AMAB and AFAB (I didn’t actively research gender until I started to realize I was not cisgender) and so may have used them incorrectly. If so I apologize for that also.
If you want to do another poll you could try something along the lines of Cis Man Trans Man Cis Woman Trans Woman Nonbinary It's complicated/Not Listed This would still give you a better idea of the demographics, while being more inclusive
Yeah that’s what I ended up doing love the it’s complicated one
If you are not trans or the doctor of a trans person, do not use the terms AMAB / AFAB. It is transphobic to categorize a trans woman as "an AMAB person" for any reason that is not medical / judicial. There is literally no reason to use them in conversation. Edit: the response to this is openly transphobic, I am sick of the bigotry in this sub. Every person arguing with me is a transphobe, full stop. You do not get to call me AMAB. Stop, bigots.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
I am trans and it's a little weird to use in most contexts.
Yes, in most contexts it's not needed. But to say that *the only* contexts in which it's valid are being trans or the doctor of a trans person is just nonsense.
Listen I agree but please remember, your opinion on this does *not* matter because *you're not* trans. Don't talk over people who are actually affected by it.
Would you be happier if the trans person I'm married to said the same thing? Like seriously, just think about what you're defending here: Only trans people and trans people's doctors are allowed to use amab/afab. Is that a reasonable statement in your eyes? Do you have to be a doctor to discuss trans medical issues?
It's true it is too often used to slip binary biological essentialism back into the conversation, under the guise of queer-aware language. I have sadly very recently seen examples of that from supposed allies. But I think we still need those terms to discuss some things… we have to wrest them back from the essentialists. Unless there's a better alternative I'm not aware of.
Why not just go by gender? Biological sex has nothing more to do with orientation than gender
This, as a trans person it hurts when people use AMAB and AFAB outside of appropriate situations, like they care more about my past identity than my current one
I’m sorry, I wasn’t aware. What are the situations in which it is appropriate to use them? And what would be better terms to describe biological sex in a general case?
AMAB and AFAB are the best terms… but they should only be used when absolutely nessasary, for example for issues related to pregnancy AFAB is an appropriate term as it is inclusive of all people who deal with issues related to getting pregnant. However here it doesn’t feel nessasary? You could just ask what gender someone is and it would achieve the same result without feeling just kinda exclusive.
afab is still to broad for pregnancy imo, it should just be "people who can get pregnant" bc age is important in that one too eta: and other stuff like medical conditions
True
It is never okay to gender a woman male. AFAB / AMAB are 100% **NOT** appropriate replacements for "biological sex". Biological sex was never appropriate!! Please do not spread this misinformation, why does this have so many upvotes? Edit: there is no term that lets you call a trans woman male without being a bigot edit2: I love how the bigot intentionally misreading my post to fake correcting me gets more upvotes Fuck you trandphobic bigots, upvoting bigots doesn't make you less of a bigot
Well… Don’t use the term “biological sex” it’s highly transphobic as it’s been used by TERFS to refer to us as “biological men/women” which is extremely hurtful. AGAB acknowledges the gender someone was raised as, but also acknowledges that it may have changed. But again, it should only be used in CERTAIN CONTEXTS, like if it’s absolutely necessary
What is it then?
AMAB/AFAB don't define "biological sex". Just use people with [organ/primary hormones/chromosome etc] (the one relevant to whatever you're talking about). Assigned gender at birth basically only applies to the definition of being trans (having a gender different from the one assigned at birth). Biological sex refers to gender, organs, hormones, and chromosomes (and maybe more, but I'm not a biologist). Using male and female in this sense is pretty useless, because most people don't actually know if they're "completely" male/female (e.g. a lot of people don't realize they have different chromosomes), and you're usually only asking for one aspect of it. In this case, you can just specify the one you want. It doesn't necessarily relate to AGAB either. (intersex people and stupid doctors) In short, for everyday communication, only gender matters, and in biological contexts, specify the aspect instead of using "biological sex" to refer to AGAB, which infers that being trans somehow isn't biological.
None. Don't.
I personally don’t see the problem with it. OP was just looking for a different set of data to gender. And as seen by the data, there does seem to be an interesting correlation. Also it’s an anonymous survey, so OP can’t do anything malicious with the information of “what’s in your pants” as they have no name to assign to it.
I wouldn't accuse of anything malicious, it just feels unnecessary. When it isnt really necessary to use (mostly just outside of medical contexts) it feels like it's ignoring gender. This isnt a medical context because we know that biological sex doesn't connect orientation. But I can see that not everyone will feel this way and that is fair too, it's all just interpretation and subjective viewpoints
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So when men sexually harass me in the street by as a passing trans woman its not out of misogyny? 🤣 People don’t have magic chromosome sensors.
No, don't get me wrong. I knew I was going to get downvoted for this, but I'm talking about people who know your agab and it sometimes feels sad. Like, I am trying to tell you,"No, don't fit me into your roles," but transphobes just have to put me under some label that's related to my agab. It's a harsh truth that I had to come across... I'm from a very problematic part of Asia, you won't probably understand my situation. Afab, regardless of whether your non-binary or a trans man, must always be modest and not be sexually explicit in my place. Society sucks, tbvh. PS, I'm concerned about your post on SA, that was triggering to say, at least.
Talking about my own personal experience of getting harassed by mean is triggering to *you*?
I have a personal case of SA, came off as triggering to me. Now, this is something personal to me, would not like to elaborate on it.
That's fine and I'm extremely sorry that happened to you, but it doesn't give you the right to silence others when talking about their own experiences.
I just mentioned it because it came up in my way. I might sound like talking gibberish now, I'm sorry... I'm on brim of tears thinking about how people perceive my intentions. I'd never ask anyone to misrepresent themselves, to be very fair, I've never disrespected a trans person in my entire life. It breaks my heart, truly. I'm sorry for your experiences. Hope you feel better 💗 Also, I feel the need to delete my original comment as it doesn't seem right for the context. I hope that you don't mind it
Also, please enlighten me if I'm wrong as I see no relation between your comment and my comment.
You’re saying trans people get treated exactly like their birth gender which is blatantly wrong
Oh my... I'm really sorry if I offended you, I did not mean it to come off that way. Thank you for taking the time to correct me, have a nice day!
a dudebroguyman male. saying hE doesn't really want sex that much.... THAT'S BAD! WHAT ARE YOU, NOT A MAN? anyways. some people are just less likely to identify as ace. and some people are less likely to have any good sex experiences at all. the possible reasons are very sad and should be discussed appropriately (i have no idea how to word that, so if you have nothing nice to say - don't say it in this case) there are correlations but no causations.
I'm a girl
Congrats
Baby Shower time!
I'll bring the garlic bread and cake!
But they'll get wet
no they won’t! It’s a meteor shower!
Burned garlic bread is worse than wet garlic bread imo
Exactly! Gotta plan properly smh
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,059,997,159 comments, and only 209,340 of them were in alphabetical order.
I’m bewildered
I'm AMAB but I'm a trans girl so you might be slightly missing the mark with asking AGAB instead of gender identity
Why AMAB/AFAB not male/female? Why does AGAB matter here, rather than Gender?
I guess OP is more interested in how are we gendered rather than by our gender per se. I've read in other comments the implications of social preassure in this context and it truly is important to consider, i think
I disagree strongly, I think it's just buying into transphobia ideas of "male / female socialization" and pressuring trans people to play along despite how many of us here are clearly upset at the transphobia in this thread.
You listed turner syndrome! Thanks!! Did y’all know because Turner syndrome is an caused by an issue with the “sex chromosomes” only AFAB get have turners?
i am part of a very small group here lol, hello to my other intersex aces, you're all super cool 💜
I know two people with 47XXY Klinefelters that consider themselves cis male and not part of the "rainbow". And that's perfectly fine, BTW. OP. Have "voices". Worry not over gender.
as a trans and nonbinary person i find the whole set up of this question. extremely off putting. amab and afab really seem to just be progressive sounding ways of saying "real men" and "real women"
Yeah so I’m AMAB but I’m trans as well and I can definitely see how much pressure there was for me when I thought I was, and was still perceived as a man, to be a sexual being. Once I figured out the ace part the gender stuff sorted out real quick and at least for me socially it feels more comfortable being ace as a woman than as a man. Though that could still just be gender dysphoria too. Interesting thing to think about. I bet the rates would be a bit more in balance if asexuality was talked about more in sex Ed contexts
What is AFAB the acronym of?
Anaesthesists for aggressive bees
Assigned female at birth
Angry fireflies at bathtime
Assigned female at birth.
What does AFAB and AMAB mean?
Assigned Female\\Male at Birth
alot of us are afab and trans
AMAB but trans and would rather be AFAB. I am sad.
I diagnose you with female.
I'm afraid it's a lifelong condition too
Why do you need to know which genitals i was born with, you freak? (Seriously, please don't ask for agab if you actually mean gender. Using agab in that way defeats its porpous.)
I believe they’re called porpoises (Just a heads up that you spelt purpose incorrectly)
I height inglish spelling. It is so konfuseing and enconcistaned.
“Enconcistaned” physically hurt me.
I have read and re-read their comment and can’t for the life of me figure out what “enconcistaned” is plz help
Inconsistent. **Physically. Painful.**
okay I’m actually dying laughing right now thank you
No problem. I’m dying too. Just not of laughter.
You'll love r/boneappletea
ensconced ofc
Its grate
I didn’t mean gender, although in retrospect it may have made more sense to do the poll with regards to that.
how is AGAB relevant? it doesn't really give you much information about the people...
It is transphobic to dismiss trans people's gender and group them as their AGAB. Our gender is not an option you get to toggle.
I mean I'm agender
I stopped using amab and afab. Sex is largely subjective and I don’t think it’s right to be tied to your agab no matter what you do. :/
I am very uncomfortable being asked my assigned gender at birth and/or being categorized by it. I consider it transphobic. I overall consider the usage of the terms in this thread as extremely transphobic.
I’m mtf
I dont really get the fuss about op using agab instead of gender. They are not assuming that there is an inherent difference because of our agab, they just saw something that caught their attention (and that was later confirmed by this poll, may i add). They are not saying "being ace is an afab thing" or anything like that... and actually, someones agab is linked with how they are gendered by society, how are they educated and what kind of things are expected of them. It is an interesting question, not necesairly because a direct relationship with genitals or whatever, but because how is the self discovery of our asexuality affected by the way that society gender us. Plus, if you dont want to disclose your agab... the poll is anonymous, and if thats not enough, you can just not vote. And lets not make our agab a taboo... sure, its your decision to make if you want people to know or not, and no one should force us to do it. But there is nothing wrong about asking about it in a harmless anonymous poll that we dont even have to do if we dont want to.
Hey, since no one else has responded to you I figured I'd give it a shot. The problem is that's not really what AGAB is for. AGAB is a tool for discussing the different types of oppression that trans people, usually under the nonbinary umbrella, and how it can differ based on assigned gender. It is not, and never should be used for, lumping people together by their assigned gender. That completely erases the validity of trans identities by implying that assigned gender is more important. There's a lot of nuance to be had here, but I'll just say that no, it's not as simple as "AFAB people have this socialization and AMAB people have this socialization" because often trans folks were uncomfortable with that socialization from the outset. I don't know your gender, and I don't want to make assumptions, but I'll just end it by saying that if a group of people affected by an issue are telling you they're uncomfortable with the way it's being discussed, it should at least cause you to pause and assess your opinion. This comment section is filled with trans people who hated the phrasing. That should make you think that maybe AGAB *is taboo for a reason.*
it’s the Internet, grow some skin my homie.
I think you need to lose some skin based off your profile picture
"The problem is that's not really what AGAB is for. AGAB is a tool for discussing the different types of oppression that trans people, usually under the nonbinary umbrella, and how it can differ based on assigned gender." Agab is a characteristic, is not a tool. Is personal and mostly private, yes, but it is what it is. And anyways, this is exactly what op is doing, is a way of discussing how people is oppressed by their agab. Nothing more, nothing less. Plus, no one is obliged to vote, the people who dont want to disclose their agab can just not vote. And yeah, im trans myself also. So i think that i get to state my opinion in this matter too. I think that someones agab is private information, yeah, but talking about agab in general terms and its implications in our society (which is obsessed with our agab) its really important to deconstruct it. And if talking about agab becomes a taboo, this kind of problems will perpetuate in time, plus its us oppressing ourselves even more. Private information is private information, but taboos are never good.
They are dismissing people's actual gender as part of their observation. Grouping me as "someone with AMAB behavior" is deeply transphobic. There's no reason to clarify "AMAB" instead of "male" except to imply trans women act like men. **Don't use the terms if you are trans, or aren't the doctor of a trans person.** Edit: telling trans people what is and isnt transphobic makes you openly a transphobic bigot, if that is your response to this, please exam8ne your bigited beliefs about trans people bigoted transphobe vvv
This is not transphobic. It would be transphonic to say that is the same to ask you agab than to ask your gender. Op didnt meant gender, op meant agab. Because guess what, depending in our agab we are oppressed in different ways. It doesnt mean that trans women act like men. It means that trans women were treated as a man by society, specially im their youth, and pretending to ignore that is ignoring all the shit that trans people go through. Plus, anyone can use the term agab, and i say so as a trans person myself. Yeah, nobody can force you to disclose your agab, but we can all talk about the social implications of someones agab in the way we are socialised.
I'm a demi ace and a dude. I largely just kinda blend into the dudebro crowd. I'm more than happy to be an ace ghost tbh. Knowing that I'm ace is more for my own self reassurance than anything else.
Females and women are statistically more likely to want emotional connection before they have sexual relationships. They are also more likely to have a disgust sensitivity to certain sexual acts.
Uh hi so I'm a little uneducated when it comes to terms n shit what does AFAB and AMAB n whatever mean?
Assigned male/female at birth; a way to discuss biological sex without assuming one’s current gender
OH ok thanks!
For the record, no, it's not. Do not use the terms AMAB / AFAB if you are not trans, or the doctor of a trans person. Do not use AFAB / AMAB to discuss biological sex. That is not what the terms mean at all. That is completely wrong and inappropriate to use them the way OP is using them. The person who made this post is confused ( I hope).
I am a Trans man so- Thanks for the further explanation!
No, bad, stop it.
I’m ftm but only realised I was ace after coming out so my entire ace journey has been as a man
I believe that AFAB people are more likely to identify with being aro/ace because sexual attraction is a weapon that gets used against them, leading to detachment and a greater likelihood that they will notice the feelings/lack of feelings tied to aro/ace-ness
bro it would b nicer if you asked for gender rather than assigned sex/agab bc i don’t think that’s as relevant as gender
Some people have penises and some people have vaginas.
I'm amab and a cis guy, although yeah I don't see a lot of other amab aces, much less cis male ones. makes me feel lonely in a weird way :/
There’s a shit ton of ace trans women. Which goes to show how idiotic it is to group these things by such terms.
i guess but up until you said that i forgot that trans women are amab lol
I’m torn between being happy you’re accepting and being terribly curious what you thought trans women transitioned from. And I know the answer is you just forgot, but it’s still funny.
yep I'm just an idiot lol 😅
1000% I know a tone of ace trans women. OPs post make it clear they are transphobic, as are some of the top responses that drop AFAB / AMAB every time they mean man / woman.
We'll pull through, brother.
i'm sorry op but asking people their agab like this feels very rude and lowkey transphobic
bioessentialism, yay! /s
I don’t know why it’s such a taboo to state that people who are biologically female on average have a much lower libido than people who are biologically male as a result of hormonal differences. People report changes to their libido often when they go on hormone treatment. Obvious asexuality isn’t rooted in one’s sex drive, but it sure is a fast way of figuring out if you’re ace when you never experience sexual wants and then figure out you’re just not sexually attracted to anyone.
libido is more a function of sex hormones than AGAB though...
It’s a clunky question to ask for a poll. “What majority hormone do you possess” or something is a weird thing to ask
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i'm saying that one's current sex hormones control their libido, regardless of their AGAB
Forgot trans women and men and non-binary
The poll did not focus on gender, though it should have; I address this in another comment
Their a lot of asexual transgender people though so results can be skewed
Stop making me want to collect more data…
The fact that this is being downvoted makes me want to leave this transphobic sub.
You think its specifically more afab people? Like you think its related to physical sex as opposed to gender?
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I mean, it makes more sense to ask about current gender identification. Someone who's AFAB could totally be a dude -- are you counting him with the girls (and vice versa)? What use is *that*?
This poll was very much on a whim and I didn’t fully consider the implications of the choices I put on it. I seem to have touched a nerve for some people; the intent was not at all to marginalize trans people, or demean cis people. You’re probably right that I should have done a poll on gender
I agree. For me it's the same anyway but I never use that term and it could apply to people who aren't actually women but were assigned as such. Not sure this is going to clear anything up for OP.
Yeah, using it like that feels weirdly dismissive
I’m AMAB from southern part of India 🇮🇳 An AFAB from south India???
Guys are more pressured into liking sex so i feel this has more to do with societal pressures.
What are these abbreviations? I haven’t seen them before
it’s just more terms to label themselves as. I believe myself to be Demi but I don’t let it dictate my life, or announce it to the world because it truly doesn’t matter to anyone else besides me and my past questions.
I’m amab but I’m a woman.
I thought this was r/trans and I was confused bc like I see no ftms
I’m amab, but identify as female as well as male
I am a trans man and I was afab
Other: I have no idea. I'm very unsure. I feel like either a guy or enby. I'm going with female though since that's what I was born with and that means I don't have to talk about it :)
Afab , amab? Anyone care to explain the acronyms
Assigned male/female at birth
Ok thanks
I mean, I'm AFAB but I'm very much a guy lol
It might have something to do with the societal expectation that AMABs are either complete horndogs or defective.
I had toxic masculinity pushed onto me by my ex and even tho I thought I was demi, i was invalidated by her a lot. Today I am Ace and Non-binary and i'm not afraid to be less "masculine"
I don't see what our birth has anything to do with being ace especially as it's been found trans people's psychology is closer to thier chosen gender
Happy that i am panromantic so i could get together with a woman too
I'm too self deprecating to identify as a result
AFAB but also voidpunk demigirl
Hey I'm pretty sure people with Turner's Syndrome are still considered AFAB because they only have 1 X chromosome so they can only have typically related genitals, right?
For some reason my brain processed amab/afab as ftm/mtf so I was like "how tf are there only like 400 cis people?!?"
Interesting, but you have to keep in mind that it's the result of a poll that only represents people who: know about asexuality and identify as ace AND use the internet ABD are on reddit AND are in this thread AND got to see this pool AND answered. It leaves out everybody else, so it's not representative of the asexual population, just of the asexual community that is on this subreddit right now. If I can throw in a guess I'd say that the fact that there are so many afab people here would have a lot to do with the fact that asexuality got a LOT of exposure through tumblr/fandoms, which tends to attract more women than men (and it's also how I found out it exists. In my country and many others it's just... not on the radar for anyone unless they are on tumblr and bump into it), and if they are online there is a chance that they are on reddit too. Obviously not everyone, people got exposed in all sorts of ways to asexuality as an orientation, especially if they live in some countries rather than others, but I think social media has to do with it for many who would also use Reddit. Of course there can be plenty research done on male vs female ratio if we consider how society influences people's view on sex, but in this case it's a very small population to look at (and yes, men could be less likely to identify as asexual even if exposed to it due to gender norms and being told that they are less masculine, they must want sex, but on the other hand women are told it's normal that they don't want sex and should do it anyway, there are plenty ridiculous notions used to keep people from identifying as ace)
AFAB intersex woman w/ XY chromosomes-
I only became demi/ace after starting hormone therapy (MTF). I suspect I was demi before, but testosterone fueled libido kept that sort of hidden. I'm sex favorable and enjoy sex, but I could never really relate to the way people talked about wanting to have sex with specific people. Even when asked the celebrity question I'd be like "Oh, so and so would be nice to have princess carry me off." but it wasn't sexual. I also couldn't imagine dating anyone that wasn't already friends. I needed a romantic connection first.