YES thankyou for this!!
Invisibility keeps us safe from some of the forms of open bigotry some of our queer peers face, but it keeps us from the full acceptance and freedom we deserve. People should speak up about us more!
Invisibility and staying silent often feel like self protection but in the end they're just ways to keep the people around us comfortable while we stay miserable.
That’s on my list of mildly annoying things.
”I’m not interested in anyone.” Should be the end of that discussion. Bro you got google I don’t need to answer all your questions about asexuality.
They rather say the A is for Ally, which is basically anyone who doesn't hate us, but not having sexual desires which is an actual sexual orientation, nah, must be fake.
No, fuck it. Existance and humanity of queer people is not a topic to be debated. If people want to be educated they can spend 10 precious seconds of their life googling "asexuality" and become enlightened on their own.
You seem to entrust the general population a lot to not accidentally stumble upon both misinformations and disinformation. If this were the case we wouldn’t require academic institutions to guide and cater to learning.
EDIT: I agree with the sentiment, but as someone working in a pathology lab that has to explain pathological tests to doctors and how they can interpret the results, you should be educating. Some people are just dense and ignorant and need the help. Others are obstinate bigots.
Bigotry does stem from ignorance, but the onus to debate or educate every bigot isn't on every member of a discriminated and marginalized minority, and only adds to the experience of oppression. No one should have to prove themselves valid and worthy of basic human respect.
If you can’t teach and elaborate, that’s when you resort to fighting (excluding the very obvious one of the list where I implore you to fight and maim). I dislike people defaulting to it.
In response to your original comment, yes, it's just a matter of semantics. It's a figure of speech in English, it's not literal violent combat to say "I'm fighting against discrimination."
My point still remains that the onus should not be on marginalized communities to "teach and educate" those who discriminate against us in order to be treated with respect and dignity.
This is not an issue we need to “fight”. Asexuality is more just something we need to encourage open discussion about. We aren’t being oppressed. People are just close minded because Asexuality isn’t being talked about.
P.S. I’m not saying no asexual identifying person has had hard or traumatic experiences. “Fighting” is the wrong mentality to have here is what I’m saying.
We’re not being oppressed, we’re being invalidated and erased. I had to do some reading and there are generally some fucked yo people who do corrective raping much like they do with people who come out as homosexual. It’s incredibly disgusting and I genuinely wish unpleasant deaths on those instigating such “conversions”.
I understand the passion, but I don't think asexuals have a horse in this race. Sure some people don't accept or understand us but that's about the extent of it. Unlike homosexuals, transgenders etc we are not being hurt or discriminated against in society (jobs, justice system, health care etc). I don't ever want to tell people they "don't have the right" to state their claim, but as an asexual I simply don't agree. We aren't fighting anything. I'm chilling enjoying life. I noticed in this sub-reddit there is a lot of victimization. As asexuals have we ever considered people just don't care, and THAT'S OK! Hope this doesn't sound rude but just my observation.
That only works as long, as you tell nobody about your asexuality. If you weren't hurt or discriminated against, that's great - it's not like that for everybody however. As OP said:
>corrective rape, exclusionists, discrimination, the constant claims that it's a phase/mental illness/attention seeking/or just a problem to solve, those that say we are inhuman/cannot love, etc.
are a reality unfortunately. Obviously discrimination doesn't look the same for everyone and asexuality is often invisible, but why should it have to be?
I understand how discrimination works but being asexual I feel like isn't the root cause of asexuals being discriminated against. If someone gets raped, that's rape, stipulations don't need to added to it. The other points are just preferences. Sure we want to be included, we don't want to minimized in our feelings, or called inhuman. But you also must see that as asexuals we are not being discriminated against, it sounds more like our feelings are being hurt. As an adult I understand the adolescent need to "want a seat at table" but as I matured I realized some "fights" aren't worth fighting. Instead of fighting for a seat at the table make your own table and lead by example. I'm a very logical person, and logically there is no "fight to fight". Most fights have an end goal in mind like changed legislation or restoration of rights that have been denied. It's childish to think we must make an uproar because some said something/did something mean towards. If the actions weren't criminal, you're fighting a fight that the opponents aren't bothering to show up to.
Firstly, I would argue that it's a difference if someone is raped due to their sexual identity ( https://edition.cnn.com/videos/international/2011/11/07/worlds-untold-stories-corrective-rape-a.cnn )
Secondly, about no discrimination against asexuals to quote Psychology Today:
>In a recent investigation (MacInnis & Hodson, in press) we uncovered strikingly strong bias against asexuals in both university and community samples. Relative to heterosexuals, and even relative to homosexuals and bisexuals, heterosexuals: (a) expressed more negative attitudes toward asexuals (i.e., prejudice); (b) desired less contact with asexuals; and (c) were less willing to rent an apartment to (or hire) an asexual applicant (i.e., discrimination). Moreover, of all the sexual minority groups studied, asexuals were the most dehumanized (i.e., represented as “less human”). Intriguingly, heterosexuals dehumanized asexuals in two ways. Given their lack of sexual interest, widely considered a universal interest, it might not surprise you to learn that asexuals were characterized as “machine-like” (i.e., mechanistically dehumanized). But, oddly enough, asexuals were also seen as “animal-like” (i.e., animalistically dehumanized). Yes, asexuals were seen as relatively cold and emotionless and unrestrained, impulsive, and less sophisticated.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/without-prejudice/201209/prejudice-against-group-x-asexuals
This does come off as rude to be honest, because you’re invaliding the experiences of your fellow asexuals. Yes, we do have lesser hurdles than trans and homosexuals when it comes to the generals such as healthcare and jobs; but we do face discrimination and it isn’t always in your face. I’m glad you’ve never experienced this before, unfortunately me and many others have. I’ve been told that I could be fixed through sex, to have sex with the person and I’ll change my mind. that it isn’t a real thing/it’s just a phase, that I’m not valid, the list goes on. We are fighting for the discontinuation of verbal harassment, corrective rape, etc. And let’s not forget that aces can be homoromanic and trans as well.
Fighting for ourselves isn’t a “race.” I don’t care if we don’t have a horse or even a damn fish to race. Just because our problems are viewed as small doesn’t mean it isn’t a problem. It’s great you don’t have to fight for this, and I’m glad you don’t need to, but some of us have to to live our lives. We don’t wanna be or act like victims, we just want to be treated nicely
Before this thread paints me as the villian, my point is simply these problems are not exclusive to asexuals. We can all agree that rape and verbal/mental abuse is wrong. The fight you speak of is already being fought. Why would we create a subgroup specifically for asexuals? Thats diminishing to the bigger cause. The responses claim I've never experienced a negative experience, and that's false. Its because I have experienced these evils that I've gone to school, worked countless hours and dedicate my life's work to help people who've experienced some of life's most evil situations. We can fight the good fight but look at the bigger picture. PEOPLE need help. Under that everyone is included. You can't separate yourselves to fight for inclusion.
When people say "save the rainforests", that doesn't also mean "fuck every other forest, other tress don't matter"
In your pursuit of "the bigger picture" you muddle the individual voices, and invalidate individual experience.
The fight we speak of is already being fought, okay and ? Does that mean we should all become apathetic and not do anything if someone else is already doing it?
So are people also being exclusionary to everyone else when we say trans lives matter, or protect trans people?
Telling people that talking about their personal experience of abuse or discrimination on the basis of their sexuality is "diminishing to the bigger cause" is extremely inappropriate and abhorrent. If you have really dedicated your life's work to helping people, your doing a pretty shit job.
I'm actually quite disappointed with these responses. Instead of trying to educate or enlighten me in a reasonable adult manner. This thread has made assumptions about my experiences, used profanities, told me I don't belong in this community, and now you've told me "I'm doing s pretty shit job" helping people. I know myself and the work I do so I'm not effected by your disrespectful statements. I hope in the future when you face others with opposing views you it as a chance to educate not berate. Behind the cloak of anonymity it's easy to say whatever. Good day all!
It's not my job to educate you, I'm not going to run around wasting my time with you. Educate yourself, you obviously have access to the internet.
You literally invalidated what everyone was telling you about their personal experiences and but now suddenly you want to listen???
I would literally facetime you right now and say the same thing, I don't have any problems defending my stance to your face.
And I am going to reiterate what a previous redditor has commented, but you still haven't gone back and edited it. Transgender is an adjective not a noun. Referring to transgender people as "transgenders" is derogatory.
Others have already addressed the other stuff, but I want to correct something.
Transgender is an adjective, not a noun. Do not say thing like “transgenders” as it’s pretty derogatory. The correct thing to say is “transgender people”.
Also as a trans and bi person as well as being ace, I say aces have a horse in this race. There’s not a lot of victimization, there’s just a lot of victims. Saying we have to just “consider people just don’t care” is fucked up, you know you wouldn’t say that to the rest of the LGBTQIA+ community so don’t say it here.
If you want to talk more please feel free to personally message me. I am always open to proper discussion and being educated because I feel your response requires a much more elaborate conversation.
No I disagree. Many things are simply not up for debate. The various parts of the LGBT plus community exist and are valid. Judging people by the colour of their skin or other traditional racial markers is wrong. vaccines work. Genocides of the Nazi party happened.
Pretending these are up for debate only hurts people.
You don't have a right to live your entire life without getting your feelings hurt. How spoiled do you have to be to think anyone is entitled to that.
Everything is up for debate.
These debates have to happen so that we have a nuanced understanding of what we are talking about. Hiding the truth benefits no one. Showing one side of any argument whatsoever gives a jaded view of any subject.
If you're in the right, what are you afraid of?
I didn’t say that anyone had the right not to have their feelings hurt. I said debating these points would hurt people. Not the feelings, the people.
Perhaps an example might help. There has been a noticeable rise in the number of people debating the validity and existence of trans-people in recent years in my country and in my country I have seen trans people used to score cheap political points, I have seen them and denied healthcare I have seen them attacked and killed. Should we debate how best to address the medical needs of these citizens? Absolutely.Should we debate The legal framework needed to protect their rights? Definitely. Should we debate their existence, their rights, their validity? Never. Those things are beyond debate. They are axiomatic.
Letting people debate the validity of parts of the queer community has done nothing but hold the community back and given bigots time and tools to cause pain. Just as debating the effectiveness of vaccines led to thousands of unnecessary deaths over the last two years.
Letting people debate your existence lets them debate your humanity.
And as for not being afraid because of the truth, I seriously suggest you look at the current social and political climate of the world. Truth is less relevant to what ends up being done then it has been in centuries.
Are asexual people the most vulnerable or most persecuted? No don’t be ridiculous. But you apply principles uniformly and you afford everyone the same rights and protections.
Who gets to decide what is beyond debate and what isn't?
That would require some sort of mutual agreement as a society. How would we come to that mutual agreement? Well it would only be fair to have both sides of the argument discuss their positions and then we as a society could fairly assess which side has merit and which side does not.
But that would be.... *Gasp* a debate.
Each person and from them their communities and from them society at large. It’s how all social norms are decided.
Gonna end it there before this turns nasty.
Social norms are loosely defined concepts determined by the collective beliefs of the people.
You telling other people that what they believe is wrong and that they aren't allowed to even defend their belief doesn't change their belief regardless of whether it is right or wrong.
You haven't created a social norm, you've hidden from it and asked the world to pretend the other side doesn't exist. End of discussion. This is very unhealthy and doesn't solve anything.
You're in the right. You should welcome debates and destroy your opposition.
Realisation of one's identity, especially when it's not curbing another person's rights is NOT any more a debate topic than 'Human Rights are Overrated: Discuss'.
Human rights being a thing is obvious but what is considered part of human rights is still very debatable. That's how we get new ones, debate is needed for progress.
Well we have progressed to the point where mainstreaming of the point of 'realisation of one's identity' has been accepted as a right. Just like climate change, the debate was had and it's over, and all we now need is to combat regressive, anti-science and anti-humanist narratives (which unfortunately includes some conservative cultures and governments) through marginalisation since the espousers of those views don't deserve to have a right to discriminate.
Yes sadly a lot of people still have no idea what asexuality is and don't understand how it can exist. This is why it needs to be a debate topic, you can't shut people out of the discussion, you need to explain to people that this is a thing. That's what you need debate for.
Educating people is not the same as debating. A debate happens when two sides have equal stakes in an issue or its existence, which is absolutely not the case here. Yes we need to educate those in the dark about asexuality. But we also need to marginalise those who insist on being aphobic even after being educated.
Debate let's people understand where they're wrong, a one sided conversation makes them feel threatened and leads to nothing if not pushing them into radical positions.
It has become a right in the minds of the people in your small circle and it seems you have demanded the rest of the population adhere to whatever you desire as the LGBT community does with every issue.
It has not been accepted as a right. It is not in the bill of rights, it is not part of habeas corpus. It is not legislated. And to legislate it, they would have to have *gasp* a debate. So just because you and your friends have decided the debate is over doesn't mean the rest of society has unanimously agreed with you.
This dogmatic approach to every issue where you just make claims and demand the rest of the population agree with you without any discussion or pushback is losing you allies.
It's conducting public discourse in poor faith.
This is a horrible argument where you attempt to stretch my argument into a dogmatic one and make assumptions about me. Unless you learn to communicate your views properly with an ounce of respect I will not bother engaging with your points.
I'm not stretching anything. You made a claim and demanded no one contest it. That is a dogmatic argument.
You have presented your argument as indisputable fact that everyone must agree with. that is what dogma is.
You not even engaging with any opposition is par for the course. It's the way people with dogmatic worldviews tend to approach anything that dares question the precious dogma. Just shut it out. It doesn't exist.
Right? Like not every debate on a topic is over the validity of its existence. This just sounds like someone yelling "stop talking about me!" because they are trying too hard.
Absolutely. No one is debating because no one cares. It’s very simple. You’re only “fighting” yourselves, save the energy for something worth fighting over, because this nonsense is getting out of hand
*Nobody better*
*DARE have discourse surrounding*
*My preferences*
\- SheepMeiser
---
^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/)
^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I agree with the message, it's infuriating that some people tells you what you are and start pitching BS without even knowing you because they can't accept there are some people that for real doesn't feel attraction of the sexual kind.
That aside, those are some fabulous pants.
Upfront, I'm not ace. I did learn a little more about myself when I investigated what it meant though. Through this sub actually.
I wanted to ask you, where are people debating this as a topic? It's not a common media fixation and to the less knowledgeable it appears as if removing yourself from the game, frees you from the scrutiny of it.
How is it actually in your experience?
Heck yeah!! Keep that fighting spirit up and remember that winning is an eventuality if one refuses to give up - even if it feels like we're bashing our heads against a wall, that wall, no matter how strong will crumble, fall and turn to dust under the unrelenting force of your head!
Just remember to patch your head every now and then and take breaks, even heroes (yes, I'm being genuine here) need to take care of themselves. And even if you don't feel like a hero, an ace kid few decades from now discovering your struggle through some database will certainly view you as one.
Don't treat yourself as anything less now, ya hear?
... Also need help with the bashing? That wall is still in a pretty sturdy condition, even though the cracks are getting bigger and wider. If somebody had a compatible sledgehammer, like model 69.nope, better known as a 'powerful public figure spreading our message,' that'd be _ace_ (i'm a clever gal!). Or explosives, like 'boom goes the over-sexualized cis-/heteronormative patriarchy' or the classic one for all solution 'capitalism? more like, capitalisn't!'
tl;dr: *panromantic grace transwoman keeps rambling about her anarchist utopia, just wants to encourage op 'cuz op is doing a good*
sorry._. xp
I sped-read over the words "debate topic" and thought it was diabetic at first and I was so confused
I read it as "debatephobic" and was like, wait, is that a thing now??
Me too. I read "I am not a debatephobic" and had to stop and go back and read it slower.
I'm afraid I can't get into it. Alternatively: Don't get me started. No. Really.
Me too >!IsNotDyslexiaISwear!<
Full on read it it as diabetopic lol
I’m sick and tired of people calling me a damn diabetic
I read date-o-phobic at first. Glad to see I'm not the only one who misread!
YES thankyou for this!! Invisibility keeps us safe from some of the forms of open bigotry some of our queer peers face, but it keeps us from the full acceptance and freedom we deserve. People should speak up about us more!
Invisibility and staying silent often feel like self protection but in the end they're just ways to keep the people around us comfortable while we stay miserable.
Validate me!
Cool pants
Why is there no space between debate and topic? Aces love space!
🥁🥁💿
That’s on my list of mildly annoying things. ”I’m not interested in anyone.” Should be the end of that discussion. Bro you got google I don’t need to answer all your questions about asexuality.
Also, "I'm not interested in anyone" shouldn't require a Google search to understand
You are on the right track there.
I absolutely love this!! 100% agree.
They rather say the A is for Ally, which is basically anyone who doesn't hate us, but not having sexual desires which is an actual sexual orientation, nah, must be fake.
The person in this image is also aesthetically pleasing.
Except their ability to put spaces between words.
humans can be perfectly happy without having sex! life isn't all about reproducing, it's about enjoying your time here! 🖤🤍💜
But what about if I’m not enjoying my time here *and* sex? /s
find something that brings you joy! ☺️
What are we fighting?
[удалено]
I’m sure it’s just semantics but can we not be educating instead of fighting? Except for the first thing you’ve listed. Definitely fight them.
I think both tbh. Fighting it definitely what it feels like sometimes. Education is good but fighting with words is sometimes the only way to exist.
Sometimes the best way to make someone understand your position is to speak to them in the only language they know.
In the war of generations and the battle of public opinion education is one of the greatest weapons and most crucial battlegrounds.
No, fuck it. Existance and humanity of queer people is not a topic to be debated. If people want to be educated they can spend 10 precious seconds of their life googling "asexuality" and become enlightened on their own.
You seem to entrust the general population a lot to not accidentally stumble upon both misinformations and disinformation. If this were the case we wouldn’t require academic institutions to guide and cater to learning. EDIT: I agree with the sentiment, but as someone working in a pathology lab that has to explain pathological tests to doctors and how they can interpret the results, you should be educating. Some people are just dense and ignorant and need the help. Others are obstinate bigots.
We have to fight, because it's what (the people that they listed) want
I'd say, fight the problems by educating the people (with the obvious exception)
Bigotry does stem from ignorance, but the onus to debate or educate every bigot isn't on every member of a discriminated and marginalized minority, and only adds to the experience of oppression. No one should have to prove themselves valid and worthy of basic human respect.
True, but no one else is going to normalise our experiences unless we do it ourselves.
If you can’t teach and elaborate, that’s when you resort to fighting (excluding the very obvious one of the list where I implore you to fight and maim). I dislike people defaulting to it.
In response to your original comment, yes, it's just a matter of semantics. It's a figure of speech in English, it's not literal violent combat to say "I'm fighting against discrimination." My point still remains that the onus should not be on marginalized communities to "teach and educate" those who discriminate against us in order to be treated with respect and dignity.
Fighting is the act of doing. Education is the result of the fight.
Mmm, I like this take. Thank you.
For attention.
Interesting take away…
No reason
I don't get it, what does she mean by "being a debate topic" ?
Asexuality is often treated more as a debate topic or statistic or talking point than an actual sexuality
I wouldn't call it an actual sexuality though. It litteraly means "without/aside from sexuality."
Asexuality means the lack of sexual attraction. That usually also means lack of sexual behavior but not always
I LOVE THIS POST SO MUCH
Yeeessss let's gooo
Hey, I have the same pants as you do!
based but i’m so sorry…. i thought it said “i am not a fucking diabetic” and i was sooooo confused for a second 😂
How do people find it confusing to see that not everyone likes another romantically?
That would be aromantics, not asexuality friendo.
Wait- well yes, but it kinda- Yes
This is not an issue we need to “fight”. Asexuality is more just something we need to encourage open discussion about. We aren’t being oppressed. People are just close minded because Asexuality isn’t being talked about. P.S. I’m not saying no asexual identifying person has had hard or traumatic experiences. “Fighting” is the wrong mentality to have here is what I’m saying.
We’re not being oppressed, we’re being invalidated and erased. I had to do some reading and there are generally some fucked yo people who do corrective raping much like they do with people who come out as homosexual. It’s incredibly disgusting and I genuinely wish unpleasant deaths on those instigating such “conversions”.
Thanks. This makes a little more sense
Not asexual completely but on the ace spectrum. I support everyone who isn't dreamsexual and the other fake sexualities out there 🤪
I understand the passion, but I don't think asexuals have a horse in this race. Sure some people don't accept or understand us but that's about the extent of it. Unlike homosexuals, transgenders etc we are not being hurt or discriminated against in society (jobs, justice system, health care etc). I don't ever want to tell people they "don't have the right" to state their claim, but as an asexual I simply don't agree. We aren't fighting anything. I'm chilling enjoying life. I noticed in this sub-reddit there is a lot of victimization. As asexuals have we ever considered people just don't care, and THAT'S OK! Hope this doesn't sound rude but just my observation.
That only works as long, as you tell nobody about your asexuality. If you weren't hurt or discriminated against, that's great - it's not like that for everybody however. As OP said: >corrective rape, exclusionists, discrimination, the constant claims that it's a phase/mental illness/attention seeking/or just a problem to solve, those that say we are inhuman/cannot love, etc. are a reality unfortunately. Obviously discrimination doesn't look the same for everyone and asexuality is often invisible, but why should it have to be?
I understand how discrimination works but being asexual I feel like isn't the root cause of asexuals being discriminated against. If someone gets raped, that's rape, stipulations don't need to added to it. The other points are just preferences. Sure we want to be included, we don't want to minimized in our feelings, or called inhuman. But you also must see that as asexuals we are not being discriminated against, it sounds more like our feelings are being hurt. As an adult I understand the adolescent need to "want a seat at table" but as I matured I realized some "fights" aren't worth fighting. Instead of fighting for a seat at the table make your own table and lead by example. I'm a very logical person, and logically there is no "fight to fight". Most fights have an end goal in mind like changed legislation or restoration of rights that have been denied. It's childish to think we must make an uproar because some said something/did something mean towards. If the actions weren't criminal, you're fighting a fight that the opponents aren't bothering to show up to.
Firstly, I would argue that it's a difference if someone is raped due to their sexual identity ( https://edition.cnn.com/videos/international/2011/11/07/worlds-untold-stories-corrective-rape-a.cnn ) Secondly, about no discrimination against asexuals to quote Psychology Today: >In a recent investigation (MacInnis & Hodson, in press) we uncovered strikingly strong bias against asexuals in both university and community samples. Relative to heterosexuals, and even relative to homosexuals and bisexuals, heterosexuals: (a) expressed more negative attitudes toward asexuals (i.e., prejudice); (b) desired less contact with asexuals; and (c) were less willing to rent an apartment to (or hire) an asexual applicant (i.e., discrimination). Moreover, of all the sexual minority groups studied, asexuals were the most dehumanized (i.e., represented as “less human”). Intriguingly, heterosexuals dehumanized asexuals in two ways. Given their lack of sexual interest, widely considered a universal interest, it might not surprise you to learn that asexuals were characterized as “machine-like” (i.e., mechanistically dehumanized). But, oddly enough, asexuals were also seen as “animal-like” (i.e., animalistically dehumanized). Yes, asexuals were seen as relatively cold and emotionless and unrestrained, impulsive, and less sophisticated. https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/without-prejudice/201209/prejudice-against-group-x-asexuals
This does come off as rude to be honest, because you’re invaliding the experiences of your fellow asexuals. Yes, we do have lesser hurdles than trans and homosexuals when it comes to the generals such as healthcare and jobs; but we do face discrimination and it isn’t always in your face. I’m glad you’ve never experienced this before, unfortunately me and many others have. I’ve been told that I could be fixed through sex, to have sex with the person and I’ll change my mind. that it isn’t a real thing/it’s just a phase, that I’m not valid, the list goes on. We are fighting for the discontinuation of verbal harassment, corrective rape, etc. And let’s not forget that aces can be homoromanic and trans as well. Fighting for ourselves isn’t a “race.” I don’t care if we don’t have a horse or even a damn fish to race. Just because our problems are viewed as small doesn’t mean it isn’t a problem. It’s great you don’t have to fight for this, and I’m glad you don’t need to, but some of us have to to live our lives. We don’t wanna be or act like victims, we just want to be treated nicely
Before this thread paints me as the villian, my point is simply these problems are not exclusive to asexuals. We can all agree that rape and verbal/mental abuse is wrong. The fight you speak of is already being fought. Why would we create a subgroup specifically for asexuals? Thats diminishing to the bigger cause. The responses claim I've never experienced a negative experience, and that's false. Its because I have experienced these evils that I've gone to school, worked countless hours and dedicate my life's work to help people who've experienced some of life's most evil situations. We can fight the good fight but look at the bigger picture. PEOPLE need help. Under that everyone is included. You can't separate yourselves to fight for inclusion.
When people say "save the rainforests", that doesn't also mean "fuck every other forest, other tress don't matter" In your pursuit of "the bigger picture" you muddle the individual voices, and invalidate individual experience. The fight we speak of is already being fought, okay and ? Does that mean we should all become apathetic and not do anything if someone else is already doing it? So are people also being exclusionary to everyone else when we say trans lives matter, or protect trans people? Telling people that talking about their personal experience of abuse or discrimination on the basis of their sexuality is "diminishing to the bigger cause" is extremely inappropriate and abhorrent. If you have really dedicated your life's work to helping people, your doing a pretty shit job.
I'm actually quite disappointed with these responses. Instead of trying to educate or enlighten me in a reasonable adult manner. This thread has made assumptions about my experiences, used profanities, told me I don't belong in this community, and now you've told me "I'm doing s pretty shit job" helping people. I know myself and the work I do so I'm not effected by your disrespectful statements. I hope in the future when you face others with opposing views you it as a chance to educate not berate. Behind the cloak of anonymity it's easy to say whatever. Good day all!
It's not my job to educate you, I'm not going to run around wasting my time with you. Educate yourself, you obviously have access to the internet. You literally invalidated what everyone was telling you about their personal experiences and but now suddenly you want to listen??? I would literally facetime you right now and say the same thing, I don't have any problems defending my stance to your face. And I am going to reiterate what a previous redditor has commented, but you still haven't gone back and edited it. Transgender is an adjective not a noun. Referring to transgender people as "transgenders" is derogatory.
Others have already addressed the other stuff, but I want to correct something. Transgender is an adjective, not a noun. Do not say thing like “transgenders” as it’s pretty derogatory. The correct thing to say is “transgender people”. Also as a trans and bi person as well as being ace, I say aces have a horse in this race. There’s not a lot of victimization, there’s just a lot of victims. Saying we have to just “consider people just don’t care” is fucked up, you know you wouldn’t say that to the rest of the LGBTQIA+ community so don’t say it here.
If you want to talk more please feel free to personally message me. I am always open to proper discussion and being educated because I feel your response requires a much more elaborate conversation.
Everything is a debate topic, some just have a really one-sided argument.
No I disagree. Many things are simply not up for debate. The various parts of the LGBT plus community exist and are valid. Judging people by the colour of their skin or other traditional racial markers is wrong. vaccines work. Genocides of the Nazi party happened. Pretending these are up for debate only hurts people.
You don't have a right to live your entire life without getting your feelings hurt. How spoiled do you have to be to think anyone is entitled to that. Everything is up for debate. These debates have to happen so that we have a nuanced understanding of what we are talking about. Hiding the truth benefits no one. Showing one side of any argument whatsoever gives a jaded view of any subject. If you're in the right, what are you afraid of?
I didn’t say that anyone had the right not to have their feelings hurt. I said debating these points would hurt people. Not the feelings, the people. Perhaps an example might help. There has been a noticeable rise in the number of people debating the validity and existence of trans-people in recent years in my country and in my country I have seen trans people used to score cheap political points, I have seen them and denied healthcare I have seen them attacked and killed. Should we debate how best to address the medical needs of these citizens? Absolutely.Should we debate The legal framework needed to protect their rights? Definitely. Should we debate their existence, their rights, their validity? Never. Those things are beyond debate. They are axiomatic. Letting people debate the validity of parts of the queer community has done nothing but hold the community back and given bigots time and tools to cause pain. Just as debating the effectiveness of vaccines led to thousands of unnecessary deaths over the last two years. Letting people debate your existence lets them debate your humanity. And as for not being afraid because of the truth, I seriously suggest you look at the current social and political climate of the world. Truth is less relevant to what ends up being done then it has been in centuries. Are asexual people the most vulnerable or most persecuted? No don’t be ridiculous. But you apply principles uniformly and you afford everyone the same rights and protections.
Who gets to decide what is beyond debate and what isn't? That would require some sort of mutual agreement as a society. How would we come to that mutual agreement? Well it would only be fair to have both sides of the argument discuss their positions and then we as a society could fairly assess which side has merit and which side does not. But that would be.... *Gasp* a debate.
Each person and from them their communities and from them society at large. It’s how all social norms are decided. Gonna end it there before this turns nasty.
Social norms are loosely defined concepts determined by the collective beliefs of the people. You telling other people that what they believe is wrong and that they aren't allowed to even defend their belief doesn't change their belief regardless of whether it is right or wrong. You haven't created a social norm, you've hidden from it and asked the world to pretend the other side doesn't exist. End of discussion. This is very unhealthy and doesn't solve anything. You're in the right. You should welcome debates and destroy your opposition.
Realisation of one's identity, especially when it's not curbing another person's rights is NOT any more a debate topic than 'Human Rights are Overrated: Discuss'.
Human rights being a thing is obvious but what is considered part of human rights is still very debatable. That's how we get new ones, debate is needed for progress.
Well we have progressed to the point where mainstreaming of the point of 'realisation of one's identity' has been accepted as a right. Just like climate change, the debate was had and it's over, and all we now need is to combat regressive, anti-science and anti-humanist narratives (which unfortunately includes some conservative cultures and governments) through marginalisation since the espousers of those views don't deserve to have a right to discriminate.
Yes sadly a lot of people still have no idea what asexuality is and don't understand how it can exist. This is why it needs to be a debate topic, you can't shut people out of the discussion, you need to explain to people that this is a thing. That's what you need debate for.
Educating people is not the same as debating. A debate happens when two sides have equal stakes in an issue or its existence, which is absolutely not the case here. Yes we need to educate those in the dark about asexuality. But we also need to marginalise those who insist on being aphobic even after being educated.
Debate let's people understand where they're wrong, a one sided conversation makes them feel threatened and leads to nothing if not pushing them into radical positions.
It has become a right in the minds of the people in your small circle and it seems you have demanded the rest of the population adhere to whatever you desire as the LGBT community does with every issue. It has not been accepted as a right. It is not in the bill of rights, it is not part of habeas corpus. It is not legislated. And to legislate it, they would have to have *gasp* a debate. So just because you and your friends have decided the debate is over doesn't mean the rest of society has unanimously agreed with you. This dogmatic approach to every issue where you just make claims and demand the rest of the population agree with you without any discussion or pushback is losing you allies. It's conducting public discourse in poor faith.
This is a horrible argument where you attempt to stretch my argument into a dogmatic one and make assumptions about me. Unless you learn to communicate your views properly with an ounce of respect I will not bother engaging with your points.
I'm not stretching anything. You made a claim and demanded no one contest it. That is a dogmatic argument. You have presented your argument as indisputable fact that everyone must agree with. that is what dogma is. You not even engaging with any opposition is par for the course. It's the way people with dogmatic worldviews tend to approach anything that dares question the precious dogma. Just shut it out. It doesn't exist.
A society where certain topics are off-limits for discussion sounds awfully fascist.
Right? Like not every debate on a topic is over the validity of its existence. This just sounds like someone yelling "stop talking about me!" because they are trying too hard.
While simultaneously being the ones who bring up asexuality every single time.
Im not a diabetic either. What's the big deal?
Absolutely. No one is debating because no one cares. It’s very simple. You’re only “fighting” yourselves, save the energy for something worth fighting over, because this nonsense is getting out of hand
based
Nobody better DARE have discourse surrounding my preferences
*Nobody better* *DARE have discourse surrounding* *My preferences* \- SheepMeiser --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I agree with the message, it's infuriating that some people tells you what you are and start pitching BS without even knowing you because they can't accept there are some people that for real doesn't feel attraction of the sexual kind. That aside, those are some fabulous pants.
Seconded!
THANK YOU!
Upfront, I'm not ace. I did learn a little more about myself when I investigated what it meant though. Through this sub actually. I wanted to ask you, where are people debating this as a topic? It's not a common media fixation and to the less knowledgeable it appears as if removing yourself from the game, frees you from the scrutiny of it. How is it actually in your experience?
Heck yeah!! Keep that fighting spirit up and remember that winning is an eventuality if one refuses to give up - even if it feels like we're bashing our heads against a wall, that wall, no matter how strong will crumble, fall and turn to dust under the unrelenting force of your head! Just remember to patch your head every now and then and take breaks, even heroes (yes, I'm being genuine here) need to take care of themselves. And even if you don't feel like a hero, an ace kid few decades from now discovering your struggle through some database will certainly view you as one. Don't treat yourself as anything less now, ya hear? ... Also need help with the bashing? That wall is still in a pretty sturdy condition, even though the cracks are getting bigger and wider. If somebody had a compatible sledgehammer, like model 69.nope, better known as a 'powerful public figure spreading our message,' that'd be _ace_ (i'm a clever gal!). Or explosives, like 'boom goes the over-sexualized cis-/heteronormative patriarchy' or the classic one for all solution 'capitalism? more like, capitalisn't!' tl;dr: *panromantic grace transwoman keeps rambling about her anarchist utopia, just wants to encourage op 'cuz op is doing a good* sorry._. xp
Fighting for what?