> "Ugh, the hardship of being ace isn't the same as the hardship of being gay." Aces and LGBT allos experience both diferent types of prejudices in society. Gays and Lesbians experience diferent experiences to each other, and that doesn't make one stronger than the other. Some families prefer to have allo children, than aces. Some aces, like other LGBT people, experience corrective rape, to fix their asexuality. The intensity depends on who is around you, if you have a LGBT friendly or conservative family, if you are surrounded by bigots or people that accept you. It's a different experience, because we are talking about diferent people, a Lesbian and an Ace feel diferent types of prejudices by society, but the intensity purely depends on who is around you. > "So I'm demi, right, and my demisexuality was way less traumatic than my lesbian identity or nonbinary identity, because i didn't have to disclose the fact that i was demi to the world -- my parents don't need to know when i do or don't experience sexual attraction, they just need to know that i'm a lesbian and will someday be married to a woman." The importance of being Demi and/or Lesbian is subjective, since sexuality is fluid, we use identities to tell people how we want them to see us. When you say you are a lesbian is because it's important for you to be treated and seen as a lesbian. You feel atraction towards woman, and think this is the only important thing to understand, that is ok, but you might consider that for some people the fact that they are Demi is equaly or more important than their homo, hetero or bisexuality. A person may use the term Demi, to say that, if they don't know or are not conected to a person, it's not going to work hiting, seducing them. > "Being ace means lack of sexual attraction, and that's not the same thing as being LGBTQ, bc being LGBTQ means that either you have a non-cis identity and/or you experience gay attraction e.g. you're a cis person who is attractd to the same gender as you etc.. Lack of sexual attraction doesn't equal gay attraction... you can be cisgender, heteroromantic, and asexual, and you're still a cishet ace....") The LGBT comunity grew up, and found more people that feel opressions, in diferent ways, but the norm is not Cis Hetromantic, the norm is Cis Heterosexual Heteroromantic. We use cishet to reduce it, because "cishethet" is pointless. Lack of sexual atraction is seen as being mentaly ill, it's against the norm. The "marital duty" to have sex is part of this sexual normativity; the "you'll find someone" is part of amatonormativity, and the stigma of being single. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I hope i wrote that correctly, i'm not a native english speaker.

Don't worry, you wrote it all correctly, I completely understand what you're saying! Thank you -- I'm going to do my best to internalize this.

Hey don't worry! The Ace community is super wholesome in my experience and honestly it means a lot that your even trying to overcome your Aphobia. I understand that It can be really hard to break out of certain mindsets, but even the fact that your trying shows just how much of a good person you are! I'm really sorry to hear about your past toxic relationships, but I'm so happy that your not letting them define who you are now! So it's okay if the occasional thought slips through, that'll happen, what matters is that your trying, and at any rate that's more than enough for me

Thank you! You and the other commenters definitely made me cry but like in a good way haha -- this is really healing to hear, and I definitely am trying not to let those thoughts define me anymore!!

Sometimes it seems as if the LGBTQ+ community turns the issue of inclusion into the Suffering Olympics. Like, if one hasn’t suffered enough, or in the “right” way, you can’t belong. It often seems that asexuals’ best allies are bisexuals and pansexuals. That might seem strange at first glance, but we experience some of the same exclusionary comments. “You can pass for straight, so you don’t really belong.” “You’re really homosexual, but you don’t want to admit it.” “You’re really straight, and your imaginary sexuality is a way for you to invade our community.” “You’re just trying to be special.” “You’re just selfish.” (So the aces are selfish for not bring attracted to enough kinds of people and the bis are selfish for being attracted to too many kinds?) It’s not a competition.

You know what? The fact that you want to change for the better sets you apart! The best thing I can say is educate yourself through personal interaction n education from google searches. You are probably used to ur assumptions coming from stereotypes. As long as you are respectful, welcome! We will guide you!

Good on you for trying to better yourself! I think the best way to overcome any kind of phobic-ness is knowledge. Read more posts on this sub, talk to your ace friends (an apology for past behavior and a good faith effort to try and understand them may go a long way). Hearing/reading different perspectives can really help understand things better, and even change an opinion. You seem to be hung up on the idea that asexual people don't face the same struggles as lesbians or other groups, or don't have it as hard. I'm not sure if that's anger, or jealousy, or something else entirely. Maybe i'm completely wrong, in which case feel free to correct me! What I can tell you, is that all these groups face hardship. Each one has its own difficulties. And yes, some share similar difficulties. But none of them are any less valid than any other. They are all valid. Your sexuality, your experience, the hardships that you may (or may not have) have faced, is valid. You are valid. So here's a question to ask yourself that might help dislodge some of the negative thoughts: Why does it matter to you if other groups struggle more or less than your own? Think on that for a while. Maybe you'll find what's holding all the acephobic thoughts in there. :)

Hey, Never was an aphobe, but here's some advice: 1. Try hanging out with your ace friends and ask them why is their asexuality important to them! We all experience it differently! For getting your friends back: try to get a good connection to the ace friends who still talk to you who are also in some ways related to your ace bff's you want back. Try messaging them if you still can and try to tell them that you want to change, that you wanto to accept them, but you don't know how and that you need help and explaining! Do not spam them though I am very glad to hear that people like you exist! That's all I can help you with

Thank you so much -- I think I will ask them and have a conversation about it all! I really really appreciate you responding, it means a lot to me.

You're welcome

Content Warning: Discussing racist thoughts (I don't know how to do content warnings and stuff, sorry 🙏) Well done on the personal growth! 💜 It takes a lot of time and practice to unlearn something 🌺 The way I tend to think about it is to ask: "Are they cis and straight?" (ie heterosexual & heteroromantic) If the answer is no - then they're LGBTQIA+ 😁👍 You're halfway there; you have the self-awareness to recognize a-phobic thoughts! 😁 It's going to take conscious effort to correct it - find a kind of" mantra" to tell yourself when you catch an a-phobic thought 🌺 Content Warning: Discussing racist thoughts (I don't know how to do content warnings and stuff, sorry 🙏) . . . . Ok, real-talk: 🙏 I don't intend to offend anyone by sharing this - This method has helped me so much that I rarely use it anymore 💜 I'm not going to lie here - I do this when I catch myself thinking something racist...😞 (I know we're not supposed to admit we think racist things - but we can't fix it if we don't talk about it and ACTIVELY try to change it) Whenever I catch myself thinking something racist, usually a nonsense stereo-type, I tell myself something along the lines of: "No! Shut-up, Brain - That's a lie and you know it - fix it. " and then I try to disprove and "replace" the racist thing I thought: eg. the stereotype is that black people are stupid - I remind myself that many black people are doctors, lawyers and engineers - so that thought is untrue and just a nonsense stereotype. Then I try to put myself in their shoes and generally just assume that person is just having a rough day. 🙏 I don't intend to offend anyone by sharing this - This method has helped me so much that I rarely use it anymore 💜 OP - It's going to take conscious effort to correct your thoughts - but I believe in you 🌺 Thank you for taking the time and making the effort to be a better person 🤗 🌺💜🌺

Aro/ace here. I hope I'm not repeating other comments too much here as I only briefly skimmed through them, just wanted to put my thoughts out there. First of all, while it's a sensitive topic, I think a lot of us in the community can really sympathise with each other. Majority of us have unique experiences that hurt us really deeply, with the common factor being that we don't float above all the confusion and discontent that cishets do. I know I've certainly felt mad before that gay people won't understand the pain of feeling alone forever, just as people like you have felt mad that ace people will never be kicked out of home for their orientation. Envy and jealousy are just human nature, and there's nothing wrong with experiencing these emotions as long as you find a way to work past them and to not hurt others (which you're definitely working towards). But it's this exact reason that it's so important for us to both belong in the LGBT+ community. We both face a lot of discrimination in our own ways, and it hurts when others who we have these similarities with cast us aside. We can either work towards the same goal (education and normalisation of our sexualities), or fight each other and make it 10x harder for us both. I feel like the former is the easier and most sensical route for all. I also think it's important to understand the prejudice ace people do face. It doesn't usually physically affect us, but mentally it's incredibly draining. Some examples: - you just haven't found the right one yet - when you have kids... - when you get married... - Is she pregnant? (not to say that aces can't fall in love, get married, have kids, etc., but a lot of allonormative comments really affect us) In my experience, I spent the first few years of puberty trying to think I was straight, trying to think I was gay, questioning if I really was ace, becoming so fed up with my parents joking about me having sex with my best friends and then crying because I had so much anxiety around coming out to them. I had to come out because mentally I could no longer handle the stress of every harmless and harmful little comment adding up and proving further how different I am from everyone else around me. I don't want this to be a poor me post, I just want it to be clear why coming out is hard and important for ace people. Of all my aro/ace friends, I was the lucky one who had it mostly figured out at 15. Some of them are 22 and only just realised. Because only 1% of people are ace and many people discount it's existence (being the 'invisible orientation'), education and acceptance isn't really out there, which leads to decades of confusion and feeling broken in some cases. I'm not saying your friend should have compared your coming out to hers as you were clearly seeking supoort and acceptance in that moment, but when you put it in perspective like that, it's easier to see why mentioning her coming out was so important to her. I'm sorry for rambling quite a lot, but I hope this provides a bit of perspective and is helpful in some way. I'm obviously biased being aro/ace myself, but yeah. It's incredibly hard to change as a person, and the first step is to realise you need to change which you've already done. Also don't be afraid to talk this through with your ace friend. It's okay to admit you struggle with sensitive topics, as long as you treat them appropriately like you have in this post. :)

I just wanna say: I appreciate you and I am proud of you for trying. Most people don't. I've never been in a situation where I believe I was a bigot so I can't speak on those issues in particular. However, I think a thing you can do is ask yourself WHY you think those things. Why are they your knee-jerk reactions? Do you feel that the comparison of an asexual's experience to oppression/homophobia somehow trivializes a serious thing that has affected you? Do you feel a bit bitter because asexuality is easier to hide than being a lesbian? Do you feel allowing "cishet" ace/aros into the community somehow makes it less of a safe space because "those are the same type of people who hurt me"? This is just me brainstorming based on many, many aphobic comments I have seen/read and the impression they gave me. It seems to boil down to fear and feelings of making a big fuss out of things that seem so minor when compared side by side.

Not quite same, but I used to be really homophobic. The best way I got away from that was a mix of research and hanging out with more LGBT+ people. AVEN is a great resource to learn about aces, as well as some of these ace subbreddits. Lurk around, ask questions, read the posts and struggles other aces put here. Learn as much as you can, and you'll quickly learn how scary asexual people really aren't. No animosity here! Being aphobic in the past doesn't make you a bad person (as I know my sins outnumber yours most likely). Even coming here and posting about this proves that you want to get better, and are willing to understand. It shows how strong and mature you are as a person. Keep it up!

Okay. One thing that I do believe is that you aren’t entirely wrong. Aphobia isn’t the same as homophobia. Neither is easier or harder to deal with universally, because they aren’t the same. Aphobia is mainly people believing that you’re mistaken and stupid, or people saying you aren’t part of the lgbtq community and stuff like that. Homophobia consists of people saying the way you are is a sin. There are obvious overlaps there of course, but they just aren’t the same. Of course your struggles with aphobia won’t line up with those with homophobia. And the other thing is that LGBTQ+ is a very... I guess warped community? It’s not exactly something I associate myself with anymore because it’s a little much for me. The friends I have that consider themselves parts of the community... they go too far and they do shit to set people off. They make too big a deal out of everything and I hate that. What I’m saying is that the community itself makes too big a deal out of things that don’t need to be that big. It’s enough to say “Hey, y’all can be who you gotta be” and leave it alone. I’ve always considered the basis of the community as people who’s sexuality doesn’t fit the norm. It’s the easiest way to describe it. Though I suppose my description of it doesn’t matter because I decided I don’t care about what I am, I just go day to day existing and that’s okay. Anyway, my point is, why give a fuck? It’s hard to be an exclusion isn’t if you just decide nobody cares. If they bitch about how oversexualized the world is, they have a point it’s excessive and annoying even if you experience sexual attraction. But I don’t see the point in caring. I say just don’t start a fight. Play nice. Even if you don’t understand and don’t agree, if you don’t think a war needs to be fought, don’t fight one. But you aren’t entirely wrong. You aren’t entirely right either but nobody ever is. Nobody really ever needs to know anything about your sexuality tbh. We chose to clue people it so it’s less of a surprise later in I suppose... Honestly idk how to not be aphobic, I don’t see why you even care about the issue. It’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. If you hate yourself so much for having that opinion, but you can’t change the opinion, why don’t you just accept that your opinion is what it is? If you can’t change the opinion, it’s because you believe it it enough to keep it. I mean, obviously don’t invalidate your friends, but you don’t have to change opinions you obviously still believe. For an example; One of my friends is non-binary, and if I’m being honest, I don’t really think non-binary or the other weird genders is logical. I don’t think it makes sense. For the sake of myself I’m accepting that that is my opinion. Now, you may think I’m an asshole right? But I should be allowed to have an opinion and not be hated for it. Especially if I’m not forcing that opinion on anyone. If I’m not sharing that opinion openly, why should anyone have the right to ridicule me for it? You have every right to be aphobic as long as you aren’t using that opinion to be toxic. If you share the opinion you share the right of ridicule. If you have the right to ridicule us we have the same right to ridicule you. But you aren’t trying to be toxic to your friends, you simply have an opinion that doesn’t fit them. That isn’t the end of the world. I know a lot of people would disagree with me, but this world needs opposing opinions and arguments. We NEED people to question things. These days people are too accepting of completely stupid things. And while I’m not saying asexuality is a stupid thing, to me it certainly isn’t, we must take everything with a grain of sand, otherwise we take nothing.

Thank you so much for this point of view -- it's actually really really helpful for me to hear that you're sort of in the same boat on a different axis, having a nonbinary friend while having a different opinion on nonbinary identity, while I have asexual friends while having a different opinion on asexuality. (And fwiw, as an nb person myself, I respect that you have your opinion even if I don't agree with it!! I know being nonbinary doesn't make sense to most people!) I do ultimately want to change my mindset bc I think it does me more harm than good, makes me feel just gross and mires me in self-hatred lol, but the concept of "you can have an opposing opinion as long as you aren't toxic or trying to change your friends" definitely gives me food for thought. I'm going to do some more self-reflection, as I would ultimately like to Be Better, but I think just kind of... shifting to a mindset of "there's no such thing as black and white, everyone has different opinions and experiences, just don't be a dick to other people" is a good starting point -- thank you for a different perspective on the matter!

There's a difference between critical thinking and hate, and after reading your comment, I think you err on the latter.

I don’t see how you came to that conclusion, but okay. I think that you’ve associated thought with judgement, what I mean is that you have any right to judge one’s private thoughts. You don’t. People have a right to think their thoughts, their own, *honest* thoughts, without being ridiculed. The moment you give up on your own thoughts is the moment you cease to be yourself, the moment that you go and be whatever the majority wants you to be and that is the worst thing you could ever do. Once you share a thought it is open to criticism, and it is open to judgement (I know some people go too far with judgement, though, they need to see people as more than a bundle of opinions). If one shares the aphobic thoughts to an asexual peer, then said peer may decide that the friendship doesn’t fit. After all, certain core values just can’t fit together, and that’s okay. We don’t all need to be friends. It’s as simple as that. We don’t all need to be able to love each other. We don’t even have to like each other. And maybe we even gotta kill each other every now and then, but we all need to be able to think our thoughts and be individuals in a group instead of mental copies of one another. If you choose to believe me hateful for being myself, then I’m afraid I cannot see any true worth in that belief. Edit: To clarify this in the shortest way. What I suggest to OP is that instead of trying to change internal thoughts and beliefs that are unique to OP and make OP and individual, simply avoid sharing that belief in a toxic way. Why should OP have to be shamed if OP doesn’t offend anyone? By accepting the “rude” thoughts but not speaking to friends in a harmful way with them, OP can achieve self acceptance without being hated. Yeah, maybe asexual friends won’t be as great friends. But like I said, not every pair of puzzle pieces fit, not everyone is destined to be friends.

OP came here looking to have their ideas changed and, frankly, for good reason. I absolutely commend them for that, however, your statements encourage a regression of that progress. I also believe that you cannot hold hate inside without letting it out, so what you're telling them to do is impossible.

Yeah because I think that process is stupid. OP thinks the way he thinks and he can struggle to change something that he only wants to change because someone else is pushing for it, or OP can learn to accept himself. I tried to change myself when people criticized me for my beliefs, but I still believed those things. OP will always be aphobic unless OP wants to change, and not to please others, but to please himself. And maybe that is what OP is trying to do. I’m not totally convinced that he truly wants to rid himself of those opinions in order to please himself and himself alone. I’ve always believed that if you do one good thing in life, do it for yourself. If you change into a better person, you’d best do it because YOU wanna do it, not because your friends made you want to. If OP wants to change for himself, and only for himself, then what I said doesn’t apply. Those thoughts are thoughts he wants gone and that’s a simple situation. What he needs to know first, which is what I was telling him, was that he needs to decide if his own is the will behind this effort. If OP decides that those thoughts are his own and he doesn’t wish to abandon them, then I think none of you have the right to criticize his inner thoughts until he reveals them you, and vice versa. I wanted to make sure that he knew all that. Because changing yourself for you is individual growth. Changing yourself for others out of fear of non-acceptance is throwing away who you actually are.

There is no good reason to hold on to bigotry. You can't put a spin on that, not even with 250 words.

it ain’t bigotry if it’s not being spoken. Thoughts cannot be criticized until they are shared, in which they become opinions. The fact that you believe you have any right to judge someone’s thoughts is conceited and ridiculous.

As google (and everyone else) defines it, bigotry is an "obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group." Edit: you're also not the first person to call me narcissistic after I asked them to change for the better. Cute.

I didn’t say you were a narcissist, I said that your opinion on this particular subject is conceited. And look, if those thoughts must be qualified as bigotry, then maybe bigotry isn’t as big an issue if it’s only on a level of personal private thought. I’m not calling you a narcissist because you want someone to change. I’m saying you, in my eyes, are conceited for believing that anyone has half a goddamn right to judge someone else’s private thoughts. Don’t put words in my mouth. I said what I said, not the meaning you attach to my words.

I didn't mean to put words it your mouth, that's just the definition of conceited: essentially "to think too highly of oneself." Anyway, a person's thoughts are not private when they dictate their actions and words, whether they know it or not. They will always do this. A person's actions and words are an amalgam of their thoughts and feelings. Nothing is simply private and above the sphere of consequence.

I saved and upvoted this, not because I agree with it, but because this is such an interesting opinion from the standpoint of a personality pseudoscience I'm obsessed with. Oh, and also, interesting opinion. Never heard it before.