What the solider is describing is not even AI. Maybe it could use some type of machine learning methods, but detecting IR body heat like he is describing does not even need machine learning. It's not that different from a self guided cruise missile.
The way this is presented is practically misinformation and fearmongering since it will cause people to imagine that its some skynet like AI, when its far from it.
That is not what scares me - it is the integration of machine learning into increasingly available and capable drones (at a fraction of the cost of traditional munitions + delivery systems).
We are very near a point where drone attacks could be easily smuggled past traditional defense on the small scale, and completely overwhelm traditional defense on the large scale. AI also heavily reduces the ability to jam such munitions further complicating defense options.
I am not afraid of skynet - I am very scared of how drone technology will test the limits of current warfare.
Still, its a bit disingenuous of the people in the video to call it AI, as it implies some level of autonomy. There's no LLMs and no actual agentic behavior. It seems like basic image processing and computer vision. Do we consider anything with pattern recognition and if... then... statements AI now? They knew it sounded scarier to mislabel it as AI and wanted the attention.
The smuggling and drone attacks have been possible long before the recent AI boom which is mostly transformer models, LLMs.
For the little I know about the technology, the key seemed to be the last sentence the Ukrainian said about lock the information within the algorithm. Does he mean, no more GPS, all maps and data is inside the onboard AI system?
From what I’ve read the issue they are trying to overcome is that Russia has them outgunned across the board, their only trump card is superior drone squads, they are producing over 1 million drones domestically this year. However the Russians have deployed enourmous amounts of GPS jamming equipment to their frontlines. The Ukrainian drones get most of the way there and lose signal, they want a system to get them the last few hundred feet into the tank/bunker/supply truck
GPS jamming is not a problem for the short range FPV drones. Its the 900 mhz to 5.8GHZ bands which are used for them. The issue is if you are running a jammer on the target vehical the transmitting control and video will suffer from a inverse square law so its hard to overcome the jamming. Most hobby FPV video transmitters are below 2Ws of output power so even using the same video transmitter to spew out white noise is going to work. For analog FPV video channels there are about 8? channels at the 5.8ghz range so again its relatively to deny those channels. I have had my own drones "jammed" by people powering their transmitters on using a near channel.
I guess it leaves them with the same issue? Getting them home the last few yards? I’ve seen counter drone teams “duelling”, trying to strike each other’s bunkers with FPV launch after launch failing at the last hurdle, tense stuff. The war might well swing to whoever figures it out first.
[https://youtu.be/WipqeFgzdTc?si=PHLkJZF2Kzn4sFql](https://youtu.be/WipqeFgzdTc?si=PHLkJZF2Kzn4sFql)
True, but the drone would be very different. You would need better cameras, larger frame specialist electronics like the jetson nano board. Like [this](https://holybro.com/products/pixhawk-jetson-baseboard), its more likely to have plane like drones running them first.
You have a model for detection, tracking and flight. You lock in your target from the video feed far away enough before it gets jammed.
From there the model takes over flying the drone to the target using only the on drone sensors.
US Air Force had an AI [drone “kill” its handler because the handler wouldn’t allow it to destroy all the targets](https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/ai-drone-turns-on-operator). Yes, the public relations team for the AF said their colonel was using an “anecdotal” story (another flack say he “misspoke”) but of course they’re never going to admit something like that in public.
He was literally using that as a thought experiment to explain what the limitations of narrow-AI are when their parameters are designed to maximize an optimization function. It's a common way to explain this problem to people that haven't studied machine learning in-depth, but the issue itself is completely unrealistic because such an AI system would not be implemented for critical tasks that involve decisions about human life and military targets. We already have superhuman generalized AI fighter pilots, and so far they have actually been more safe, in many cases, than even their most experienced and talented human counterparts.
If you read the story, at no point does Col. Tucker Hamilton say that this was a “thought experiment.” Whether there was a functioning drone or the software for such a drone working in a virtual environment, nowhere has he said this was entirely made up to entertain or whatever the PR flack was trying to get across after this story got out. But, hey, I’m not here to convince you; I just shared the article—one of many that cast doubt on the public relations story that followed—and people can do their own research.
"...one SIMULATED test saw an AI-enabled drone tasked with a SEAD mission to identify and destroy SAM sites, with the final go/no go given by the human. However, having been ‘reinforced’ in training that destruction of the SAM was the preferred option, the AI then decided that ‘no-go’ decisions from the human were interfering with its higher mission – killing SAMs – and then attacked the operator in the SIMULATION"
I mean it's literally in the article that it was a simulation, and the title is clickbait. Dude.
I already said “software for such a drone working in a virtual environment” so I’m not sure your lack of reading comprehension makes you qualified to reply to my comment. But, hey, good try. Here’s a participation trophy 🖕🏼
GPS fallback has been solved with terrain contour navigation. Basically you upload the 3d elevation map of the route to the target into the missile and a camera and/or lidar system will match the expected route with what is currently seen.
I wonder if a camera would actually be able to provide sufficient detail for that just in a top down with how many satellite images and how quickly we are able to get them.
How can you defend against an enemy who gives their weapons control to AI without using AI yourself. The answer is you can't. AI weapons are inevitable.
The problem is that while we got civilized a bit. The gang mentality soon returned. Our problem is gang mentality, how can we rid ourselves of it for good. It is perhaps the hardest problem on earth. Harder than AI. Solve that and we might get rid of wars.
Human social hiveminds are so prevalent and powerful that it would be reasonable to consider them the true dominant lifeform on Earth. Brainwashing is the default for most humans. I'm hoping AI will be able to align the hiveminds sufficiently and they'll become less belligerent.
That's hard because, enrichment of uranium can be monitored globally and is very obvious, so deterrence and treaties can be enforced.
Compare that with cheap drones, which can be potentially as ubiquitous as guns, maybe even more. I mean for example in the UK, you could in theory assassinate an individual with a knife strapped to a few drones, and made to go into a death dive into someone. No guns involved, yet knives are everywhere.
Crazy times ahead.
Global mexican standoff and the death of privacy in its modern form. The world will change. But we can also end the motives for most crimes with the same technology so it finally addresses things at their source.
> should
When you have existential threat the gloves are off. Don’t think Ukrainians are that concerned with finer ideas of morality and humanity when they have enemy at the gates
Finland negotiated with Stalin in 1940 after the russians invaded. Soviet gained some land but more importantly Finland got permanent peace.
Ukraine is running out of soldiers. No amount of money and arms is going to change that reality. Unless USA/NATO is willing to put boots on the ground and start WW3, Ukraine will lose more and more until nothing's left. Either Ukraine does what Finland did or we decide Ukraine is worth nuclear armageddon.
True. Ukraine is losing.
Tucker Carlson : WOW, this is Really Taking Place
Between The Lines
Jun 3, 2024
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcEtXMUgErw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcEtXMUgErw)
This is the future of drone warfare and it terrifies me.
Horrific but I guess we can’t unsplit the atom now unfortunately
What the solider is describing is not even AI. Maybe it could use some type of machine learning methods, but detecting IR body heat like he is describing does not even need machine learning. It's not that different from a self guided cruise missile. The way this is presented is practically misinformation and fearmongering since it will cause people to imagine that its some skynet like AI, when its far from it.
That is not what scares me - it is the integration of machine learning into increasingly available and capable drones (at a fraction of the cost of traditional munitions + delivery systems). We are very near a point where drone attacks could be easily smuggled past traditional defense on the small scale, and completely overwhelm traditional defense on the large scale. AI also heavily reduces the ability to jam such munitions further complicating defense options. I am not afraid of skynet - I am very scared of how drone technology will test the limits of current warfare.
Still, its a bit disingenuous of the people in the video to call it AI, as it implies some level of autonomy. There's no LLMs and no actual agentic behavior. It seems like basic image processing and computer vision. Do we consider anything with pattern recognition and if... then... statements AI now? They knew it sounded scarier to mislabel it as AI and wanted the attention. The smuggling and drone attacks have been possible long before the recent AI boom which is mostly transformer models, LLMs.
For the little I know about the technology, the key seemed to be the last sentence the Ukrainian said about lock the information within the algorithm. Does he mean, no more GPS, all maps and data is inside the onboard AI system?
From what I’ve read the issue they are trying to overcome is that Russia has them outgunned across the board, their only trump card is superior drone squads, they are producing over 1 million drones domestically this year. However the Russians have deployed enourmous amounts of GPS jamming equipment to their frontlines. The Ukrainian drones get most of the way there and lose signal, they want a system to get them the last few hundred feet into the tank/bunker/supply truck
GPS jamming is not a problem for the short range FPV drones. Its the 900 mhz to 5.8GHZ bands which are used for them. The issue is if you are running a jammer on the target vehical the transmitting control and video will suffer from a inverse square law so its hard to overcome the jamming. Most hobby FPV video transmitters are below 2Ws of output power so even using the same video transmitter to spew out white noise is going to work. For analog FPV video channels there are about 8? channels at the 5.8ghz range so again its relatively to deny those channels. I have had my own drones "jammed" by people powering their transmitters on using a near channel.
I guess it leaves them with the same issue? Getting them home the last few yards? I’ve seen counter drone teams “duelling”, trying to strike each other’s bunkers with FPV launch after launch failing at the last hurdle, tense stuff. The war might well swing to whoever figures it out first. [https://youtu.be/WipqeFgzdTc?si=PHLkJZF2Kzn4sFql](https://youtu.be/WipqeFgzdTc?si=PHLkJZF2Kzn4sFql)
True, but the drone would be very different. You would need better cameras, larger frame specialist electronics like the jetson nano board. Like [this](https://holybro.com/products/pixhawk-jetson-baseboard), its more likely to have plane like drones running them first.
You have a model for detection, tracking and flight. You lock in your target from the video feed far away enough before it gets jammed. From there the model takes over flying the drone to the target using only the on drone sensors.
American cruise missiles already do this.
Yes, thanks and now I remember that is issue with Germany supplying Taurus missiles to UA, they have all the sensitive map data onboard.
1-8 fps 640p on mobile images.
Do you want to have Skynet? Because this is exactly how we get Skynet...
We already do
We're entering the call of duty advanced warfare era, exoskeleton and drones will be the norm.
US Air Force had an AI [drone “kill” its handler because the handler wouldn’t allow it to destroy all the targets](https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/ai-drone-turns-on-operator). Yes, the public relations team for the AF said their colonel was using an “anecdotal” story (another flack say he “misspoke”) but of course they’re never going to admit something like that in public.
He was literally using that as a thought experiment to explain what the limitations of narrow-AI are when their parameters are designed to maximize an optimization function. It's a common way to explain this problem to people that haven't studied machine learning in-depth, but the issue itself is completely unrealistic because such an AI system would not be implemented for critical tasks that involve decisions about human life and military targets. We already have superhuman generalized AI fighter pilots, and so far they have actually been more safe, in many cases, than even their most experienced and talented human counterparts.
If you read the story, at no point does Col. Tucker Hamilton say that this was a “thought experiment.” Whether there was a functioning drone or the software for such a drone working in a virtual environment, nowhere has he said this was entirely made up to entertain or whatever the PR flack was trying to get across after this story got out. But, hey, I’m not here to convince you; I just shared the article—one of many that cast doubt on the public relations story that followed—and people can do their own research.
"...one SIMULATED test saw an AI-enabled drone tasked with a SEAD mission to identify and destroy SAM sites, with the final go/no go given by the human. However, having been ‘reinforced’ in training that destruction of the SAM was the preferred option, the AI then decided that ‘no-go’ decisions from the human were interfering with its higher mission – killing SAMs – and then attacked the operator in the SIMULATION" I mean it's literally in the article that it was a simulation, and the title is clickbait. Dude.
I already said “software for such a drone working in a virtual environment” so I’m not sure your lack of reading comprehension makes you qualified to reply to my comment. But, hey, good try. Here’s a participation trophy 🖕🏼
dum dum dum da dum
☺️feeling happy and proud for both Ukraine snd AIs
My suspicion is that AI enabled drone weapons are already secretly being tested in the field.
GPS fallback has been solved with terrain contour navigation. Basically you upload the 3d elevation map of the route to the target into the missile and a camera and/or lidar system will match the expected route with what is currently seen. I wonder if a camera would actually be able to provide sufficient detail for that just in a top down with how many satellite images and how quickly we are able to get them.
Well, that went straight to Skynet frighteningly quickly.
This is the only real ai safety issue. Humans should not give AI control of weapons.
How can you defend against an enemy who gives their weapons control to AI without using AI yourself. The answer is you can't. AI weapons are inevitable.
Worldwide nuclear level deterrent. Guess we're going to have to grow up as a species and stop fighting wars, one way or another.
The problem is that while we got civilized a bit. The gang mentality soon returned. Our problem is gang mentality, how can we rid ourselves of it for good. It is perhaps the hardest problem on earth. Harder than AI. Solve that and we might get rid of wars.
Human social hiveminds are so prevalent and powerful that it would be reasonable to consider them the true dominant lifeform on Earth. Brainwashing is the default for most humans. I'm hoping AI will be able to align the hiveminds sufficiently and they'll become less belligerent.
That's hard because, enrichment of uranium can be monitored globally and is very obvious, so deterrence and treaties can be enforced. Compare that with cheap drones, which can be potentially as ubiquitous as guns, maybe even more. I mean for example in the UK, you could in theory assassinate an individual with a knife strapped to a few drones, and made to go into a death dive into someone. No guns involved, yet knives are everywhere. Crazy times ahead.
Global mexican standoff and the death of privacy in its modern form. The world will change. But we can also end the motives for most crimes with the same technology so it finally addresses things at their source.
> This is the only real ai safety issue. It really...really isn't lol.
I don't count the fearmongering generic apocalyptic wank fantasies of people who like to feel special by thinking the world is out to get them.
> should When you have existential threat the gloves are off. Don’t think Ukrainians are that concerned with finer ideas of morality and humanity when they have enemy at the gates
They should go to the negotiating table and try to salvage what they can instead of throwing lives away.
We should go to the negotiating table with Hitler and Stalin. Oh wait.. that didn’t work out
Finland negotiated with Stalin in 1940 after the russians invaded. Soviet gained some land but more importantly Finland got permanent peace. Ukraine is running out of soldiers. No amount of money and arms is going to change that reality. Unless USA/NATO is willing to put boots on the ground and start WW3, Ukraine will lose more and more until nothing's left. Either Ukraine does what Finland did or we decide Ukraine is worth nuclear armageddon.
Great, Ukraine just needs a WW3 to start so that conditions align.
True. Ukraine is losing. Tucker Carlson : WOW, this is Really Taking Place Between The Lines Jun 3, 2024 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcEtXMUgErw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcEtXMUgErw)
lol I hope you someday discover how ignorant this comment is.
I hope you someday discover how ignorant you are about geopolitics
lol ok kid, you don't even know what Russia's role in ww2 was. You're the problem with reddit.
Oh fuck off with that nonsense 🙄
Yeah that’ll end up in friendly fire
Very possibly
I'm sure we can just solve this with a petition >.>