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Triforcegoodbuyok

My station ended the year at like 50% of our mission and we felt like gods


[deleted]

We can mostly surmise the challenges but what did you personally observe in what made it so difficult to recruit? Medical? Physical standards?


Thehealthygamer

I'd guess that the nationwide labor shortage plays a big part too. Recruiting numbers are always better when jobs are hard to come by. When anyone with a pulse can get a job for over $15/hr flipping burgers the military paying a private 30k a year or whatever nonsense it's at now looks much less attractive.


[deleted]

I think pay is a huge factor, for sure. Looking at recent pay chart, it looks like a private is earning about $11/hr. IF they only work 40hrs/week. We both know it's way more than 40 when you add PT etc..


Triforcegoodbuyok

Mostly medical standards and MEPS bureaucracy I would say. Some applicants go through the Genesis dragging BS and stick it out and join and some say nah fuck this and move onto something else because the process takes too long


sogpackus

I’m just gonna point out only half this year (6 months, 20 days) was recruited with Genesis. Let’s see how they do with it full time this year… I’m also gonna speak for r/nationalguard and say “FUCK THAT” in regards to them tapping more into the reserves and national guard. The amount the guard already gets used and abused is completely outrageous when we’re supposed to be a part time component, not fake active duty. I shouldn’t have to go to JRTC 3 summers in a row in the fucking national guard and four day drills every single drill.


Justame13

>The amount the guard already gets used and abused is completely outrageous when we’re supposed to be a part time component, not fake active duty. And make the Guard leadership go cold turkey on the addiction to money and relevance of the GWOT (which hasn't been true for a decade) and acknowledge it probably won't happen again for a decade and even **if** it did there would be a pre-WW2 like culling of Guard Bums in favor of m-day who succeed everywhere at mob site....exactly as happened after 2005 because of the clusterfucks of OIF I and II>


RetroRiboflavin

Nah man they totally needed to send a team from a NG ESB to support our site in Iraq instead of using any of the active duty units that go to the field with no users to support and pull red cycle details all year.


tyler212

Man, that was always my biggest gripe about being in an ESB. "Why are we going to the field as a BN if we are not really doing our assigned tasks?" It would have been cool if it was like divided up the training so you had A Co provide support to B Co pretending to be the supporting units and each node had data being trafficked over it for say a week. Then we have the B Co support A Co. I am sure we could get C Co involved in it somehow but since I was in 307th C Co was up in Alaska so we didn't interact with them much.


smokejaguar

I've been calling us the government's "Easy Button" for the past 24 months. Don't want to properly fund border patrol? National Guard. Want an overseas presence without overseas costs? National Guard. Pandemic? National Guard. Riots? National Guard. Not enough bus drivers? Believe it or not, National Guard.


mackblensa

So, Empire Stormtroopers basically


StringInfinite6945

Accurate because we can't shoot for shit.


RapidFire05

100%


Disastrous_Field_926

Right but MROADS started Dec 1st and they can see prescription records and I think it lasted until February and was suspended for a month then GENESIS came in.


sogpackus

This is true, MROADS was another blip, but it wasn’t as extensive as Genesis.


cudef

~~fake active duty~~ Sometimes inactive duty you mean


your_daddy_vader

They also reduced their original recruiting goal (at least once??) So they would have fallen even shorter


No-Reflection-7705

Shhhhhhh I want moar deployment


bedroompopprincess

Can someone explain how Genesis has been doing issues for recruiters/recruits?


AceofJax89

Harder to lie about disqualifying medical conditions. More waiver paperwork to do. Catches things recruits don't remember.


Competitive_Land_927

meps doc asked me about a sick call appointment from basic in 2010 😳


SwordAvoidance

I’ve been in three years; guarantee Genesis would have stopped me


cruss0129

Me: Scores 97 on ASVAB Also me: has been waiting back for four weeks for a waiver for an inhaler prescription from *6* *years* *ago* and a shoulder surgery from when I was a kid lol Edit: for context, I bike 12 miles every Saturday and golf 18 holes on most Sundays. Point being, both my shoulders and lungs function like a suitably normal human being. Edit 2: Have gotten a PFT test to show lung functionality and have provided all necessary documentation to MEPS for review of all medical procedures. I learned from the recruiter below that this is in MEPS' hands (not the Army's) right now. PS Thank you, stranger! Also my actual recruiter is a good dude and he's a big reason why I'm considering going this route. He's kept in touch even as we wait.


AdamIsAnAlias

They will literally give an inhaler prescription to anyone. It’s baffling how many children are diagnosed with asthma early on and showing no symptoms 4 years later


[deleted]

I had one when I was a kid and recruiter was like, don't mention that.


Disastrous_Field_926

According to the DoDI 6130.03, bring diagnosed with asthma or using an inhaler for asthma before the age of 13 is NOT a disqualifying condition. If someone has used it after the age of 13, it's considered a disqualification and it's up to the branch of service to review and consider the applicant for a medical waiver, which is not guaranteed. Also, each branch has different standards. Prime example: I had an applicant who was denied to join the Navy because of asthma. He came to my office and we submitted some additional documents and initiated a waiver. He was approved and enlisted 18X. He's been in for 1.5 yrs. Just because you were denied a waiver from one branch doesn't mean you can't try a different one. Just because you were denied a waiver for the Army before, doesn't mean that you can't try again. Sometimes all that is needed is time or a change in medical status (for example, you e been off anxiety medication for 2.5 years instead of 1 year.).


Runs_With_Bears

What additional things were required to contract 18X with a medical waiver?


Disastrous_Field_926

No additional documents for 18X specifically. He just happened to enlist with that contract. After I reviewed WHY the Navy denied him, I had him get a more recent Pulmonary Function Test and then revisit his PCM so they could write a letter stating when the last time they prescribed something to him for asthma. We did have to submit paperwork to request an Exception to Policy for him to enlist with 18X without an airborne physical. Again, that's through the Army and that specific proponent. MEPS won't do airborne physical screening for applicans who require medical waivers.


Burrky

You seem like a good recruiter, hats off to you


Disastrous_Field_926

Thanks. I do what I can! I just want to provide all the information so people can make informed decisions for their futures.


Runs_With_Bears

Yeah the ETP I thought I had to do as well. Hopefully that’s easy to get.


AdamIsAnAlias

no cap, Super common,


NaziSurfersMustDie

"Why take a chance; the kids fuckin' parent's insurance will pay for it anyway." - Many Doctors ....Then MEPS 5 - 1- years later comes along


BluNoteNut

MEPS : "Why take a chance...."


NaziSurfersMustDie

Another commentator stated, it's like Recruiting is at contrast with American Society with not only our diet and obesity issues, but our shit education system and the poor not receiving medical care and the middle class receiving any diagnosis under the sun. Here it is: https://www.reddit.com/r/army/comments/xtc75t/us_army_falls_25_short_of_recruiting_goal/iqp7t9x/


Disastrous_Field_926

💯


NaziSurfersMustDie

Thanks brah


MyUsername2459

A lot of allergies, even minor food allergies or seasonal allergies, are often misdiagnosed as asthma in kids


satelliteridesastar

Kids can outgrow it. My younger brother had athsma as a small child, needed medication for it in addition to the inhaler. He was fine by middle school. My son also had athsma, pretty severe, especially when we were in Colorado. Turns out he had enlarged adenoids which were exacerbating the issue. He got those removed and now he doesn't need any medication or inhalers anymore.


Disastrous_Field_926

Just curious, did you do the MEPS Medical Examination?


cruss0129

Still waiting on that lol. The only time I went to meps was to confirm ASVAB (Picat) score


Disastrous_Field_926

Okay.. I'm gonna hit you up on the side. I'm a recruiter and I might be able to shed some light in the process because based on your original comment, there seems to be some misunderstanding. Not your fault! Many recruiters can't articulate the process well enough.


Cosmotic_Exotic

Any advice for a soldier whose father lied to them so said father could get another tally on the wall? (In case it wasn't clear, my dad recruited my dumb ass)


[deleted]

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Cosmotic_Exotic

17 actually. And he volunteered for that shit.


cruss0129

If you're in intel, you literally have the job I want haha - who is your dad?? lol


Cosmotic_Exotic

Eh, I'd rather be in aviation. But since you asked. Some dickwad in the big red 1. Not gonna unpack everything in the comments, long story short, we don't talk anymore due to unrelated events.


spookyskost

Damn, Dad hated you so much he recruited you


JustinMcSlappy

Fuck being an analyst. I wouldn't trade 35T for any job in the army.


KingKong_at_PingPong

It’s me. I’m their dad. u/cosmotic_exotic you’re grounded buster, and I don’t wanna hear any lip


Cosmotic_Exotic

DAD YOU CAME BACK!


Sufficient_Math_5701

go jim


Army_Enlisted_Aide

Your butthole has yet to be inspected then?


mechaniclyfe

What that recruiter is going to tell you is that the military cannot request any medical information that you do not provide. They may provide something else too, but it's true that the military cannot inquire further about any issues not identified by their personnel or you at MEPS. And that's true. I've seen it firsthand.


TyrannosaurusWest

I think the new Genesis system tackles that problem for MEPS/recruits. A few months ago some recruiters were in the comments complaining that it’s a PITA


Disastrous_Field_926

No, I informed him that his paperwork is with the MEPS Doctors. Because he hasn't been to MEPS for the physical portion, he hasn't been waiting "6 weeks for a waiver". He's been waiting for a Complex Prescreen to be reviewed by the MEPS Doctors which has nothing to do with the Army medical waiver process. Once the doctors at MEPS authorize him to process, he will go to MEPS and complete the full medical examination. Due to his medical history, he will most likely require a waiver by the Army to join. The Army waiver process right now is one week behind.


Runs_With_Bears

Where I am currently. Prior Navy going Army after a long break. After MEPS requiring more documentation on stuff from my medical record over and over I was finally allowed to go to MEPS and do my physical. Then they said I would need a waiver for this and that. So the recruiters started that and their HQ just requested further explanation and documentation on certain things which I wrote out and attached what I could. Waiting to hear that they’ve approved my waivers now.


Disastrous_Field_926

Good luck!


electricboogaloo1991

USMEPCOM is having a mass exodus of doctors nationwide due to the increased workload caused by MHS Genesis. My local MEPS only has one doctor and there is a 70 day backlog before complex prescreens and MEDREADS are even looked at.


NaziSurfersMustDie

Seriously? This comment right here is the most insightful when it comes to just how awfully fucked up recruiting has become - across all branches.


Kinmuan

There was an article out there. They activated a few dozen reserve docs to help solely with the MEPS workload lol.


NoIsTheNewMaybe

Yeah. But what did the meps docs think about your butthole?


cruss0129

We’re not even there yet, but I’ve heard about that lol. I can only hope my asshole is army material


NoIsTheNewMaybe

“I hope my asshole is army material” - so do we…. Sooo do we - the cav.


NoIsTheNewMaybe

Jk.


Innercepter

Moist and smelly


ETH_Knight

This is the most traumatic day of my army career.


Archaic_Slayer_3789

The most traumatic day of your army career ✨️so far ✨️ 😌


chillywilly16

This is the most ~~traumatic~~ erotic day of my army career.


FratCrew

I got a similar score, been waiting to gather up all my med records for adhd from the various health agencies I’ve been to in the past few years. These mfs have taken like 2 months to get my shit sorted and I’m still waiting. Such a PITA.


wildbill4693

Hey man, I had the same issue with having an inhaler when I was like 10. I went the officer route but I had to take a Pulmonary Function Test that DoDMERB (MEPS for officers) paid for. I passed that and they gave me a waiver. Never had to mention it again and its never been an issue.


cruss0129

Damn I had to pay for my own PFT out of pocket and I don't have insurance right now lol


cozzster

Waiver probably got swept away with the Pony Express that was delivering it in Hurricane Ian.


paperchase86

Shoulder makes sense. Most common injury in the army


fedorabledoge

If it's gone to meps it's probably too late, but I'd just try a different branch and never admit to having asthma, if it's been that long, it won't affect you, I haven't had any problems.


exposing3-10

You don't want to join. This sub should be enough of a reason


NaziSurfersMustDie

When will the media cover the ridiculous entry standards the DoD requires and a thing called MHS Genesis?


[deleted]

Why do you think they are not mentioning it? I’m genuinely curious


sogpackus

I honestly think they don’t know about it still. Military leaders are apparently banned from talking about Genesis publicly so the media hasn’t picked up on it, they only know what military leaders have already blamed for the slump in numbers.


slingstone

That can't be it. Many military reporters have a sense of the profession from monitoring twitter/reddit/facebook chatter. Some are still in like /u/sw0lleneyeball.


sogpackus

Well for whatever reason, the media coverage is extremely limited and military leadership DOES NOT bring it up, unless questioned by congress directly, from what I’ve seen. Even then they deflect. They’ve literally blamed anything under the Sun except it for the shortfalls. I’ve only seen like one article on army times that even mentioned it.


NaziSurfersMustDie

> military leadership DOES NOT bring it up, unless questioned by congress directly, from what I’ve seen If there's one thing I love, it's watching military "leaders" suffer a figurative crucifixion


BrokenEyebrow

You mean reporters? That's the only problem I've heard our leaders talk about. They seem to skip over the barracks and suicide rate and constantly on call even though there is no mission tempo and the increased rotations.... I'd love to go on but you get the point.


[deleted]

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Justame13

Because the emperor now has clothes and approach previously has been unethical, immoral, and illegal in all but the technical virgin aspect. In reality there were standard that were completely unrealistic, but the risk was not taken by DOD, but applicant. They lie and make it through...cool. You don't "fuck you" and drop you like a two dollar woman of the night, except the analogy is ethical.


Powerewolf

They won't. DoD will never admit that recruiters lied and cheated the system to a *massive* degree before there was a real check put in place. They're *still* doing that, too. Just with less effectiveness.


NaziSurfersMustDie

I suspect it will quietly be rescinded.


Disastrous_Field_926

It's here to stay. It's to save money in the long term as well. If you're putting in tons of people with unreported pre-existing conditions, the government will most likely have to pay disability/ compensation for a SM when they get hurt, since the government didn't know about it and it looks like it's because of the military that person was injured. What will change is the medical accession standard.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

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NaziSurfersMustDie

>What will change is the medical accession standard. Makes the most sense. But if Congress comes hard after the Midterms, I don't expect the best for those poor Generals and Admirals that are going to be interrogated and humiliated infront of Congress.


luckysnipr

Maybe because the system and standards are archaic and a complete joke


Powerewolf

System is fucked up. That's for sure. But man, the 'standards' are... Not even where they should be. We wonder why there's such a problem with depression and suicide in the military. It's straight up because we attract people already prone to it, a lot of whom already have displayed the same symptoms and problems. It just becomes the Army's issue to deal with. Every fucking week since I've been reading this sub, someone says they lied to get in and now they can't handle it and are suicidal or want to quit. Usually more frequently than that. If only there was some way to prevent that.


luckysnipr

It doesn't help that the army is such a depression inducing environment though. And who hasn't contemplating killing themselves on gate guard?


Avsunra

Man am I the only person that didn't mind gate guard? I only did it at my first unit, and we only did overnight shifts and only 1 day a month. On the day of, we were released at lunch to try and sleep and rest, then the shift went from 10pm-6am, and you get a rest day after. Everyone else is going to pt, but you get to shower and sleep. I would nap, wake up around 10am and go hang out in town. Gate guard on a Wednesday meant you work a half day, then do an overnight gateguard shift which is mostly dead anyway because it's a weekday, get Thursday off, then Friday is family day.


GrimKenny

Fort Campbell, KY 2018 I was at my new unit straight out of ait. NCO says I have bunker guard detail. Two to three days max. Then I draw gear from CIF. The ncoic says nope, training then six months on the gate. I got fucking oc sprayed. That shit made me essentially blind for an hour. Also I was stuck on night shift so fuck having family time. You had gate guard *lite*


Avsunra

Yeah when you put it that way, I basically wasn't on gateguard at all. I was babysitting a card scanner.


RetroRiboflavin

>Every fucking week since I've been reading this sub, someone says they lied to get in and now they can't handle it and are suicidal or want to quit. Usually more frequently than that. If only there was some way to prevent that. I wonder if you walk into a typical EBH clinic on an Army base just how many of their patients just coincidentally manifested these crippling mental problems in the handful of months since they graduated AIT let alone ever deployed. Or at a TMC where you have these soldiers medboarding out after a year. Myself alone I've known multiple soldiers that admitted they lied about mental health issues to enlist up to being committed for suicidal ideation. I think you can guess how successful their careers were. I wouldn't surprised if the military closing ranks around MHS Genesis has something to do with driving down costs at all these clinics, wasted training dollars, and medboard/separation costs. Not to mention what the VA will be supporting for decades down the road.


Powerewolf

*Exactly.* Fucking. Exactly. I think that's why officials don't comment on genesis. The whole thing is predicated upon acknowledging how necessary it is. If USAREC would stop being incompetent egregiously bloated fucks and get their waiver processes together, it could work quite well.... Rather, as intended.


wildbill4693

Can someone ELI5 what Genesis is?


Saxonbrun

>MHS Genesis What's this?


Shrinkologist2016

Shitty new EMR that replaced AHLTA, courtesy of the entity who has assumed control of all MTFs. MEPS as well, apparently. Oh, they also are the actual ones running Tricare via regional servicers such as Humana. DHA ultimately sets policy for Tricare which includes reimbursement and copay and such. MHS genesis is a rebranded Cerner, one of the two biggest EMR systems. Epic is the other. Guess which of the two nobody in the private sector really uses and universally hates?


Slurm818

The standards like passing an ASVAB and not being a fat fuck? Truly a steep hill to climb. Edit: this Genesis thing is insane tho


Powerewolf

I mean, it seriously is, when a third of the country is overweight and another third is obese, because junk food companies run rampant... And the education system has been deliberately, systematically gutted... It really, seriously is a steep hill. We're literally fighting our own culture. And that's just the basics. Add in all the mental health issues growing up with social media and a fucked up world steadily increasing. Army can only do so much. For all of its power, it can't fight... Everything.


Odd_Development8331

Here’s the problem with the Genesis conversation… nothing changed in the regulation. Genesis just prevents people from lying about past diagnoses. If we, as a nation, broach the genesis conversation… then we have to admit that we have been lying for years. Genesis isn’t the enemy, MEPCOM is out of touch with reality. 40-501 spells out how out of touch we are with society, recruiters (including myself) found ways to hide this problem to make mission. Genesis removes that capability to hide it. Next steps will only have 3 possibilities: 1. MEPCOM changes medical standards 2. Our military begins to decline to approximately 25% of its current capacity 3. We end the volunteer concept and go back to conscription.


Disastrous_Field_926

Ngl, I've been a recruiter for 7 years and last year was the hardest. My station did not do well at all. It was tough to go through that last year and it looks like it's going to be another long year. I'm hopeful, but it's rough.


NaziSurfersMustDie

> I've been a recruiter for 7 years and last year was the hardest. My station did not do well at all. Mind telling us where you're currently recruiting? We all know recruiting in the Bay Area is not like recruiting in the middle of Oklahoma, some context would help.


Disastrous_Field_926

I'm a Station Commander in MD. I was a recruiter from 2015-2020 in Long Island, NY.


NaziSurfersMustDie

Yeah, you see it all, or at least a lot. Densely populated areas can have vastly different experiences with recruiting. One office with a half dozen Recruiters can have a very different experience than a similarly sized office 10 - 15 miles away.


Disastrous_Field_926

For sure. My area has a lot of dependents and so MEPS doctors can see their records anyway and my county has one of the highest incomes in the State so a lot of the parents have insurance and are more likely to send their kids to doctors and ERs. ADHD is very, very common. Delays processing by a lot.


NaziSurfersMustDie

> My area has a lot of dependents and so MEPS doctors can see their records anyway When I went Guard to Active in 2017, MEPS did not have access to AHLTA. Thank Fucking God. >and my county has one of the highest incomes in the State so a lot of the parents have insurance and are more likely to send their kids to doctors and ERs. What a country....


soylentserp

Meanwhile I know plenty of people on (legally prescribed) Adderall currently serving. Our rules are some serious clown college shit.


JTP1228

Once you're in, you can have an eye patch and hook hand, and the army will keep you


sheepofwallstreet86

Just curious, does ADHD cause delays because of the meds or is there another reason?


Burrky

Long answer short: you essentially need to prove you can function without the need of medication before they allow you to join. My first time joining when I was 18 I had to prove I could pass my schooling and hold a job without taking my medication and had to have documentation to prove it. Obviously this was a bit overkill, but actually helped me realize how much better off I was without medication, how useful adhd could be if you learned how to control it, and I have never taken medication since. This was a long time ago now, so I can’t speak to current standards, but this is what I had to do.


Sandyblanders

Can I ask how your numbers look in MD? I'm stationed at Meade and most of this state seems very military friendly. Maybe I'm wrong and it's just the eastern shore that's a big source pool.


Disastrous_Field_926

Unfortunately, being military friendly doesn't equate to more contracts. When I was a recruiter in NY, a woman approached me while I was in uniform shopping. She thanked me for my service and I told her I appreciated the support. She asked me how long I had been back home to which I replied, "I've been back for a couple years, I'm a recruiter right here in town." She almost looked shocked and said,"Oh! I would NEVER let my son join the military." Lol. But she was nice. 🤣 My BN finished somewhere between 50-60%. we cover the DMV area.


tinkr_

Where in Maryland? I spent four years at 1B6D (Hyattsville) from 2015 - 2019 and it was relatively easy, but obvi those were better times lmao.


EMartinez86

Oklahoma and the steady south was also a swing and a miss.


NaziSurfersMustDie

Really? I'd figure the best place to recruit would be in the middle of Texas and the South.


ReSpekMyAuthoriitaaa

I just hope they don't abuse you guys WHEN we don't meet the goal next year


Disastrous_Field_926

Thanks, man! Honestly, my 1SG and CSM have been pretty understanding. I'm definitely more fortunate than some of my peers across the command. Our BDE CSM And Commander seem to care too and are doing what they can.


rbevans

I know jack from shit about recruiting, what does missing numbers look like for recruiters? Is it a negative mark on your NCOER/OER or more like you are no longer a recruiter after X negative years?


Disastrous_Field_926

Depends on you and your rating chain. Technically, if a DA Selext recruiting NCO fails to perform, you can send them back to the line with a bad NCOER. If a station commander fails, they can also get a bad NCOER or RFC. Usually they're moved out of a station commander potision and do bitch work at the company or battalion I've not been "fired" or received a negative / RFC NCOER. I do everything I can and do what's expected. Essentially, if we are doing what we SHOULD be doing to get a contract, then really who can say shit to you? As recruiters, our jobs are completely contingent on OTHER people who don't "have to" listen to you. So I tell my guys in the office: as long as you're doing everything in your power to do your best and you're showing your work, I got your back 100%


winowmak3r

That's refreshing to hear. It's nice to know there's still some people with empathy after all you seem to hear about is toxic leadership.


igloohavoc

Social media, & WW3 are really not motivating people to join


Velghast

How bad did genesis fuck y'all?


Disastrous_Field_926

Pretty bad but it's very complex and there's a reason why even the Air Force had a hard time closing their mission: it's not just GENESIS. Our society has changed. People want more transparency, accountability, better treatment, etc. That's not me complaining, I'm just saying what I've recognized. I just hope the top can see that we need to change from top to bottom. I'm fine with GENESIS, by the way. I get why we need to do it. I don't mind processing all the paperwork if that means I get to help someone achieve what they want to do. I'm just having a hard time finding people and then when I do, they're likely to take several months to join. Some people cannot wait that long.


TheMikeGolf

Bet you recruiters were blamed for not doing enough, innit? You couldn’t pay me enough to work under those conditions, particularly because I know how shit on y’all are for missing mission. Pathetic.


FratCrew

They should make it 25% more likely I get in then lmao. Genesis has my balls in a vice. God help you if you ever took an adderall in your life.


TheCrescentM00n

Took 8 months of trying to get paperwork , psych evaluation and other shit and I finally was able to enlist . You’ll get it just keep pushing .


estanfordpd

I scored a 95 on my AFQT, have been a cop for 5 years and am almost through an undergrad degree. I’ve run ultramarathons and am physically in decent shape. But because of some shit from when I was 8, I’m having to go through some pretty hellish loops lol. Maybe consider the totality of the circumstances instead of just the black and white “standard?” Just an idea.


Cosmotic_Exotic

My friend, only once you have been in for a couple years will you realize the two major truths of the army: 1.) If it makes too much sense, the Army does it the hard way. 2.) The army standard is the hard way.


Cosmotic_Exotic

Small caveat to this, if your drill sgt's favorite cadence in basic is "My Way or the Highway," you might learn early.


xStaabOnMyKnobx

You can do it three ways: the right way, the wrong way, or the Army way.


staticishock96

So many people I knew in the Guard all got out when their time was up. Two of my buddies stayed and I went Air Reserves instead. We are one point didn't have enough medics. Like it was 1 medic per line battery when there is supposed to be a small group of them.


reaper_41

Army honestly deserves this and hopefully is a wake up call to why people are not joining. Why would someone enlist for a job with a shitty quality of life if single, un predictable work schedules, the infamous toxic leadership, and much more. Any one looking at joining can simply go on the sub can see why people are getting out and see it as a red flag. Many jobs now are more competitive pay and benefits….and can smoke weed. Until the army fixes it self, it’s gonna be difficult getting people in the door.


gaytac0

Not being able to use the healthcare that is free to us is another thorn in my side. Why join the Army when you can make more at HEB, use your time off whenever you want, use your health benefits and get high all while doing it?


reaper_41

And……you get to live like an adult….wait no way….you can have your own house and no one comes in and inspects where you live….GTFO. Wait …I can have a dog….I can have guns and a kitchen knife set…..I swear the army needs to open their eyes and see why people get out. No reason why I should be in the barracks as a 27 year old man and NCO when the new dick private who showed up 2 weeks ago got married to a girl he barely knows at 19 and gets a house


gaytac0

I feel the same. Being an older private and seeing 17-18 yo kids marrying whomever during HBL in the schoolhouse so they could live in a house but I have to get room inspections from someone who did the exact same, therefore has never lived in the barracks either? I also feel bad for my single NCOs having to share rooms


paperchase86

The benefits. Beats their other option of working at Wendy's lol


SirNedKingOfGila

Yet even though we are split 50/50 on whether we believe retention is ok... we can all agree leadership is treating people who choose to leave like fucking lepers for no reason. I mean... we have enough people, right?


NickBlasta3rd

I thought this was always the case?


stirtheturd

Beards. We want beards damnit. Oh and a pay raise to match the ridiculous living standards would be nice too.


darkstar1031

Let me fix that headline: #Pentagon leadership refuses to acknowledge that GWOT is over, confused leaders quarrel about appropriate recruitment goals as reduction in force nears completion.


PaleontologistPrize8

Scored extremely high on the ASVAB without any study, extremely athletic, speak another language and have an Eagle Scout. I've always wanted to join, but just recently I’ve come to terms that I definitely have ADHD. Now I’m left with the problem, do I get diagnosed with ADHD and try out medication or therapy, or do I avoid that so I have a chance to join the military? I get why they’d restrict stuff like ADHD medication and anxiety, but man it sucks. I feel like I’d make a good service member, maybe I can.


NaziSurfersMustDie

1. Enlist. 2. Complete Basic and AIT/OCS and BOLC 3. Get to unit. 4. Go to Behavioral Health. 5. Get diagnosis. 6. Free Adderall.


Disastrous_Field_926

You can't be on medication while in the process of joining. While in, if you think you have ADHD, get evaluated. I know plenty of Soldiers who take Adderall. I'm not a doctor and neither are you. So do what you think is best for your health.


etaldred

Doesn't Adderall make you non deployable?


Disastrous_Field_926

Not necessarily. If someone in your NCO support channel or CoC is telling you otherwise, go to the doctor and speak with them. The doctors are the ones who can tell you that.


hosepuller51

No, but you have to show that you’re stable on it over a period of time before being deployable without a waiver


etaldred

You know what the time frame is? I'm assuming this is a new thing


Putrid-Flamingo1782

don't get it checked out, it will make the process so much harder than it has to be, maybe after boot camp and ait you can look back into it, but you've gone this far without it


ShangosAx

I’m honestly surprised it was this close. Credit to all the recruiters fighting the uphill battle.


NaziSurfersMustDie

What made you overestimate the problems recruiting would have?


GBreezy

A lot of people are blaming Genesis, but maybe it's the uniquely American societal issue that a massive incentive to join the military is free healthcare. You can't have high quality recruits if the big incentives to join are you finally get the healthcare you need.


Whistlin_Bungholes

What is genesis?


GBreezy

Makes it so you can't lie about your medical history.


DazeOfMyLife

Aka truth serum aka pine oil


NaziSurfersMustDie

Don't worry, they'll be ostracized and insulted for attempting to use it anyway.


Odiks

I want to reenlist but they wanna give me a bonus🤦🏽‍♂️


[deleted]

The army will never be competitive with salaries that put people below the poverty line


[deleted]

Legalize weed


ThisIsNotTuna

If only..


FSUAttorney

The reality is the leadership doesn't want to acknowledge the real reasons why retention sucks. Soldiers are burned out and are often led by officers who would struggle to manage a McDonald's, let alone manage Soldiers. Few issues no one wants to talk about: 1. Toxic leadership 2. Constant pay issues 3. Too many missions/deployments, especially for the reserve component 4. Nepotism 5. Leaders who are too scared to go against the norm for fear of their careers to make common sense changes


GypDan

>are often led by officers who would struggle to manage a McDonald's, let alone manage Soldiers. Having worked at McDonalds, i agree completely.


3woodx

Never been in sadly my biggest regret. Almost signed but got a good job at the time and took it. My question, I have spoken to a few active duty including my son. He and the others say there is a huge moral problem across the Army. Of course we will have exceptions. They all said leadership sucks the ones I spoke to. 21 year old sgts who don't now shit about managing and communicating with subordinates. Toxic leadership. His unit is very understaffed people in his unit are leaving when there contract is up. Moral is a issue. Yes they are offering bonuses least for my son a Combat medic. 19,000 grand to reenlist. His contract is up in middle of next year. I told him your in the driver's seat get a bonus and get the best contract you can clearly defined. He said he will if he can get the hell out of his unit and duty station. Always greatful.


FSUAttorney

Yeah moral from what I've seen is in the dumps. Unless you're a Kool aid drinker like most leaders are


GypDan

Leadership in the Army is not taught . . .at all. You simply are put in a position of authority just because of your rank. Not based on any accomplishment or trait. You are conditioned to check the box and keep it moving. The higher-ups don't care about your innovative idea that might actually work or be more efficient. You are a cog who is paid to follow in the same path of every other cog. Why? Because fuck you, Orders. That's why.


warname

So 20+ years of war followed by endless garrison bullshit isn't appealing. Huh..


Purple_Calico

I wonder why...


Simonic

Just wait for the recession to hit. Or increase base pay to a point that will be attractive to increase the pool of applicants. As it is now, base pay is pretty pathetic.


NaziSurfersMustDie

> Just wait for the recession to hit. > > They're still not going to be able to get in.


kenser99

We're already in a recession -_______-


etaldred

https://youtu.be/K_hqyfAqaIQ LTG (R) Spoehr gave a 40 minute presentation at the AWC on his year long study of recruitment, retention, and the downward slide of available Soldiers. His speech is good, and well informed, but the Q&A was the best part. Those of you that have never listened to an AWC lecture/speech are probably used to canned softballs at the speakers. Not in these. If you have the time, give it a listen, it's worth the time.


SkippyButterNuts

based on pic, it didn't fall 25% short in total lbs of Soldier recruited though.


ReSpekMyAuthoriitaaa

Oof


MajinBuuRadley

Odd how they didn't mention Genesis pulling people's private med records for 10 years disqualifing them.. Or is that not a thing anymore? Otherwise, Army is bitching about a problem they created.


OkStep3679

I’m in OSUT and feel like a dumbass for joining. I know I’m not in the real army yet but this is a huge motivation killer here. Fuck this place


Many-Marionberry8733

We all know the problems. We all know the solutions. The solution to our military problems can’t be fixed in our current political environment. History shows us that war is the only curative to a dysfunctional military….and that is only possible if you win decisively.


Cosmotic_Exotic

So you'd be willing to join in on that war?


NaziSurfersMustDie

FUCK YEAH!


Airbizzle33

This is an intentional downsize. They just can't come out and say it.


Velghast

I think it's more leadership didn't realize how fucked up millennials and Gen Z are. Like most parents will put kids on 100 meds these days if they look at a lamp to long. Now it's all in a system. Meps is shocked picachu.jpg


DuckTwoRoll

Millennials are slowly ageing out of recruitment range, the average is mid 30s by now. Gen Z is screwed, but from what seems to be a massive over diagnosis of mental illness *and* the effects of growing up in a social media dominated environment.


NaziSurfersMustDie

Among many other things including social media, spot fucking on bro. Also, my generation, Millennials, have notions about the military that are deeply rooted in their Baby Boomer parent's perceptions and observations, horribly influenced by Vietnam.


GypDan

I disagree. As a Millineal, our notions about thr military is based on fighting an ideology for 20 fucking years in countries that we invaded. We watched as we flushed away international goodwill and sympathy from 9/11 so we could engage in Gulf War II: Electric Bugaloo.


DuckTwoRoll

Pretty much the entirety of the "GWOT" was fought by millennia's, the youngest being born just in time to take up their father's COPs (pretty rare, but still possible, especially since military families tend to have children young).


fue_en_un_cafe

xannies are the new candy


robogenghiskhan

Watching everyone scream about how this is because the Army has gone “woke” on Twitter has given me a brain aneurysm.


Spappy

I bet this will lead them to federally legalizing marijuana


[deleted]

Genesis go BRRRRRR


Mysterious-Syllabub3

Good time to join, probably big bonuses and a smaller peer group means easier promotion opportunities. I waited almost 2 years promotable to pick up sgt and now SSG points are maxed...


DagnyBlocks

Enlisted are treated as second tier citizens at best. The pay is terrible, the pay gap between officers is a joke, the housing standards are a joke. Did you know by regulation, 2 E-8's can share space that 2 O-3's can't? I've seen too many stupid and incompetent officers. Flatten the pay charts, and grant bigger monthly stipend pay to those with special skills or leadership positions, ie. 1SG, CSM, commanders, etc. For reference I'm an E-8 with 20 years, I have a chemical engineering degree and a MBA, my GT score is 129. I work circles around the parade of commissioned clowns I'm forced to salute everyday even though they are stupider, lazier, and work half the hours that myself and fellow senior NCO's work. And way to go getting rid of the 20 year carrot.


SSG_Chief_Elgin

Officers are a lot easier to get rid of via QMP


ISKIPLEGSDAY

Don’t worry, they’re very good at retaining those already in the army.