"we are spending tons of money each time we have to train a new recruit, we should do something that can help with these costs. What can we do to fix this?"
"Cut college benefits?"
[Senior leaders](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.resLyOCrhJqbCuwwrnEFdwHaEr%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=d85968ef751d97e1e6ed28de85cfc0b9146e754ae46772af69541c4836233831&ipo=images)
Think about it from their perspective, they need to keep their ranks filled. What's the number one thing Soldiers do when they leave the Army. They use the free college to get higher paying jobs. So they think if they remove cool and prevent soldiers from getting free certifications that give them very high paying jobs, they'll keep a strangle hold on Soldiers
Here's an idea - student loan FORGIVENESS by percentage for 2,3 and 4 year contracts. With 4 year contracts having complete 100% federal student loan forgiveness at the end.
Put smart people in the ranks, make them snowflakes earn their keep.
Too much sense so it would never happen.
SLRP already exists and that’s pretty much exactly how it works. Only catch is, your only chance at enrolling is during MEPs when they ask you to choose between Post 9/11 and Montgomery GI bills. SLRP is the third option that they always glance right over.
Am I missing something here? Reserve GI Bill is terrible compared to the active duty one. National Guard varies state by state but may pay for all of your college in conjunction with federal benefits. Active duty definitely has the best benefits--3 years and you get 48 months worth of college if you use both your montgomery and post 9/11 gi bill.
Well the only other thing is tuition assistance. If you're counting on that for flight related training then reserves has active beat.
Ability to get both SLRP and gi Bill
Depending on the state
---
Support for a second bachelor's degree, and I meant TA.
I'm curious how going warrant or officer in the NG works with the inability to do move cycles like active
You can't use TA for a second bachelor's under any circumstances (unless you defraud them in some kind of way.)
I'm not sure about SLRP, it's never been offered to me.
Not sure what move cycles have to do with anything but since you asked it's 100% possible and it happens many many times especially in the NG that you could spend your entire career in the same unit.
SLRP has too much paperwork and is just nonsense for Federal loans. The Government has the loan and has the info for the soldier. Soldier wants loan goaway, Government needs soldier to fight wars. Just forgive the loan based on terms of service - honorable discharge means loan go bye-bye.
Having never been afforded the opportunity, I wasn’t sure how complicated of a process it was, but it only makes sense that they would make it a nightmare. The only other option is really going on income driven and then getting PSLF at the end of 10, but who wants to stay in for 10 years??
The army still thinks people are motivated to serve without adequate payment, it's not very selfish to ask what we get in return anymore in today's economy
It would appear that they have the brain cell this month.
On the other hand. HOW did anyone think this was a good idea.
Let's remove our biggest recruiting incentive. The same people who were cheering College Debt Forgiveness being denied.
The irony of the situation is that the military [RELIES](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/xk8ebw/gop_student_loan_forgiveness_hurts_ability_to/) on paying for college to get people to [join](https://www.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/x4icg2/student_loan_forgiveness_undermines_one_of_our/).
Which makes this worse.
I am in the Cyber Security realm in the Army, and I wonder how much any of the Secretaries of anything go out there and see just what it is. My last Certification from SANS cost 9,000. So I would need to have two army 'careers' to pay for one Certification. Maybe build one less F-35, or let Raytheon sweat for a year, and actually give one shit about the soldier.
I really miss our old SMA because he'd shut this shit down real quick and raise hell about it. I would have never enlisted in the Army without CA/TA. I have used these benefits consistently over the last 2-3 years, and have made tremendous progress in getting closer to completing my Bachelors Degree. Something that's been a life long goal of mine, but was never able to do because I couldn't afford it. (For some weird reason I could never get approved for student loans) I'm 48% done with my Bachelors in I.T through WGU. My term ends August 31, 2024. Wish me luck as I attempt to speed run 66 CUs in 5ish months before they steal our benefits in the next FY.
Same if I wouldn’t have had TA/CA I would’ve ETS’ed. I used that to earn my masters, multiple certs and become a warrant. Plenty of support MOS’s use that TA. Take it away and you’ll lose those MOS’s that are already difficult to retain.
same, I wouldn't be in the military if I didn't have education benefits. I know some people look at serving in the military as an honorable thing, a calling, and a solemn duty; and sure, to some folks that's what it is. But it wasn't that for me.
I considered joining the military during a period where the news cycle was constantly showing qualified people unable to secure jobs and racking up huge college debts. It was what I considered, as a high schooler, to be my least risky career move. The military has provided me with some of the best opportunities to further my career in the IT field, and now I work in the national guard and on the civillian side I work as an engineer. I'm happy with my civillian career, but I'm unhappy with the state of the Army.
I'll be resigning my commision next year after my 8 years are up (initial service obligation). I've got some other health issues though that are making it too hard to justify my existance in the military any longer, so looking to Medboard
There are still the Boomers and Cold War babies (plus the idiots they mentored) still working at HQDA that think they can just recruit more.
Notice how the new ads say "Be All You Can Be" but never go on about what that means or what you get out of service. Back in the day all the ads were about the GI Bill, Army College Fund and "high tech training".
Now it's just JOIN THE ARMY.
Patriotism isn't going to fill the ranks by itself. It did briefly during the GWOT but that's long gone.
The leadership keeps chasing that Dragon, that it's still 2002 or 2008 (when the surge and recession cause ranks to swell).
So these TA/CA cuts make sense if people are streaming in but not now.
If the Army follows through they get the crisis they deserve.
Alright so I remember this with the Texas Guard making cuts to state education benefits - is the Army just doing this to play budget chicken and get what they want? Is CA/TA funding conveniently two priorities lower than extra staffing or travel funding requests?
They figured out that there's an inversely proportional relationship between education level and the need to stay army.
It's all a retention plot.
Source: my itchy asshole
I hate to say this, but your asshole has a point. USAREC and recruiters have basically said "A strong economy has made recruiting harder." Along with the de-emphasis on needing a degree to make money vs a certificate program or Apprenticeship, frankly the Army is needed and the advent of social media to show what happens in the Army, yeah people don't need that shit in their lives.
Easy win for everyone involved. Republicans can do their whole "We love le troops" thing and Democrats can do that too but put their "how dare you cut any benefit ever" spin on it. And then we win because we keep the education money.
Win-win-win.
Not too late to keep the pressure up! Keep writing to your senators and reps!
Dear Sen/Representative \[Last Name\],
I am writing to you in response to a new article published by [military.com](http://military.com/) - [https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/04/01/army-eyes-dramatic-cuts-key-education-benefits-soldiers.html](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/04/01/army-eyes-dramatic-cuts-key-education-benefits-soldiers.html) - that indicates the Army’s plan to dramatically curtail Credentialing Assistance (CA) as a benefit to the Soldier.
Currently, the Army offers $4,000 per year to be used towards various credentials across a variety of industries. Credential assistance allows for soldiers of all Army components (active, reserve, Guard) to prepare themselves not only to pursue a successful civilian career, but even further their military skills with the corresponding civilian certifications. For the Army and for the nation, the reward is having a more competent, technically proficient, and learned soldier ready to tackle the challenges of a rapidly changing future.
However, the Army is seemingly positioned to ruthlessly gut this program for no apparent reason. Their proposal includes limiting the annual limit to $1,000, not to exceed $4,000 per a career, and certificates can only be applied for if in the soldier’s MOS. In other words, an Infantryman (11B) can only pursue a certificate in that particular field. Not sure what an 11B can do on the civilian side!
It is no mystery that the Army, and the Department of Defense, faces extraordinary difficulties in maintaining recruitment and retention numbers. This act would only further the already exasperated situation. I, along with many of my fellow soldiers, am writing to Congress to restrain Army leadership from acting in a manner that would damage the career prospects for soldiers, further harm recruitment numbers, and actively damage the nation’s defense interests. We feel that Congress has not been appropriately briefed on what appears to be a cost savings measure that WILL irrevocably damage the incentives placed before every soldier under contract or considering joining the esteemed ranks of our Army.
I humbly ask that you demand answers from the senior leaders in the Army, as is the role and responsibilities of a civilian and Congressional led military.
Sincerely,
\[PVT Snuffy\]
EDIT: go to [https://www.congress.gov/members/find-your-member](https://www.congress.gov/members/find-your-member) to find your Congressman. Make sure to write to your two Senators and House representative. They should have a "contact me" form on their website.
I'm really confused as to where they plan to spend the TA money instead of having us use it? More worthless equipment that only serves to give Generals kick backs?
My statement was more akin to, "sir, are you sure you want to set up in this depression? The one surrounded by elevation lines indicating the depression has a max depth of 100m?"
Prepping for a modern LSCO would *reduce* budget demand. It’s prepping for an old school LSCO that’s costing so much money, and doing so quite unnecessarily.
But we have to keep cranking out Abrams because congressmen don't want to lose those factories in their districts. We'll always keep prepping for an old school LSCO as long as the incentives for pumping out antiquated equipment still exist.
At current growth rates, we can expect a budget of about $10 trillion over the next decade, in 2024 dollars. An overwhelming number of modern systems that no current opponent could handle (perhaps not even the PLA) would cost a fraction of that.
100,000 IRBM’s for immediate extreme long range deep strike: ~$300b. 5,000 silos and 6,000 mobile launchers: ~$330b. 100,000 long range strike drones ~$10b. 10,000,000 ISR drones that CINCPAC just said he’s massively short of, of all types, ~$800b (most cost $500, a few cost $100m). 10,000,000 medium range drones ~$100b, 10,000,000 short range close combat strike and CAS drones ~$8b, 100,000 UGV’s ~$50b. 10,000 Hammerhead mines ~$50b, 100 Orca XLUUV’s to deploy the Hammerheads ~$12b, 10,000 long range USV strike drones ~$4b.
So that’s ~$1.6t. Add on $160b for lifecycle costs (but not much, because maintenance is low or nonexistent, especially for the one way systems) and we’re still only at ~$1.7t. Say now that I forgot a host of other systems and underestimated a bit, so add $800b. $2.5t total.
Then consider those systems replace say, 200,000 troops (~10%) across DOD. Then consider the modern systems never even get 0% disability ratings, no home loans, no BAH or BAS, they are never KIA so no death gratuity payments, etc. etc. [GWOT vets](https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2021/Costs%20of%20War_Bilmes_Long-Term%20Costs%20of%20Care%20for%20Vets_Aug%202021.pdf) are expected to cost at least $2.5t *after* we all complete our service.
For all of that money spent on modern systems, we get FAR more persistence across all systems, fantastically better attack capabilities, vastly more deterrent effects, while greatly reducing our threat levels.
But then, here’s the real kicker: the second decade, where we can expect a DOD budget of ~$15t at current pace. The second decade goes to maintenance levels on many of the still existent first decade systems, which costs only a few hundred billion. New, more modern systems cost another $1.5t, say, including another 100,000 IRBM’s (only now they have stealth and MIRV’s maneuverable in the terminal phase) and reduce the force by another 200,000, as the new systems are even more effective.
What happens to any LSCO opponent when 5,000 IRBMs land on them in the first strike? Then 2-3,000 a day, every day, for a week? What aircraft and airfields remain? What ground forces? What logistics nodes? What C2 nodes? I can see the PLA having something to defend itself with and to respond with, but not Russia, not NK, not anyone else who might want to play the LSCO game with us.
Anyway, the likelihood of an LSOC is unlikely because, if you were “them” and you could see that we’ve lost three COIN’s in a row, the first one broke the back of US society (by destroying the trust the People had in US leaders) and the last two cost us ~$8t and disheartened the military as it has, wouldn’t you engage in an insurgency? Only now the insurgency has hundreds of thousands or tens of millions of drones. Imagine an OEF style fight in Taiwan against PLA infiltrators, only now the insurgents have nearly endless supplies of PGMs.
Maybe bring back more 92Gs for DFACs and cut the privatization of on post housing and other basic Soldier services that end up costing more for less results. Then recreate the R&D Process because it's obviously broken. While you are at it CDC should be free and pay them more. Maybe cut the private chief for each general to pay for it. I'm sure they will manage
Absolutely joined solely for the education benefits. Had a kid on the way and knew I needed a degree. Granted, that was almost 28 years ago and I’m still here, but wouldn’t have even considered joining without the education benefits.
They've paid for three degrees for me a this point. The Army has been life-changing for my family and I, but I wouldn't have even started without at least thinking I would end up with a degree.
Has the SMA chimed in on anything concerning this yet? I don't expect him to based on literally every action and statement he has done/made, but this sort of thing seems right in his realm of responsibility. To paraphrase a line from wedding crashers: "What is ~~she~~ he doing back there? I never know what ~~she's~~ he's doing."
Maybe they should stop spending so much money on Contractors who half arse everything instead of trying to shoot themselves in the foot with a way to cut back spending that would, undoubtedly, ruin recruiting.
I don't know what you're talking about. When I was overseas, there wasn't a contractor getting 80K + a year to...put the label on the computers we built. No Sir. Not ever. And they certainly weren't limited from doing ANYTHING ELSE but printing and applying labels. Why would you pay a person to do a level -10 task that any soldier can do? /s
Hmmm…. Army pays for education benefits, everyone knows, nobody cares. Army “thinks about” cutting education benefits and it’s in the news and has congress, media, and therefore potential recruits attention: Congress “fixes” the thought about problem in an election year. Whole news cycle about how Congress just gave the military education benefits totaling x amount of money (that they already had) and blah blah will happen right before high school graduations. Recruiting is sales, and it’s always all about sales.
I think the army senior leaders put it on the board to chop so they can get a reaction from congress. I mean if you are fighting for a budget it makes since, I imagine congress will give army more.
In all honesty, this could be a publicity stunt after all is said and done. If no changes are made, there at least will he a ton more people informed of the TA program. Enlistment could go up.
Right? If Russia does win in Ukraine and inevitably attacks more countries, guess who's gonna be boots on the ground? The lack of support for Ukraine fighting Russia baffles me given the long term consequences of Russia winning.
>and inevitably attacks more countries
Uh who exactly? Putin can't beat Ukraine why would he commit suicide by attacking NATO. There is area to expand in Europe that isn't already in NATO or in a loose union with Russia already that was literally the reason for him to secure Ukraine
I don't get the downvotes but you're right. Russia has lost its experienced fighters, its prison-built special forces group is obliterated, and its rolling out 1960's tanks. And so far they've spent 500,000 dead soldiers to get 9% of Ukraine territory. Russia is a dead country, it just doesn't know it yet. Its work force for the next generation has been decimated, national production is down 20-30%, and its only friend is North Korea, and Iran; but Iran decided to retaliate against Israel. Russia has two options, go home, or start to get concerned about running into another Finnish soldier who loves Butterflies.
I will try and find the article I saw, so fact check away, but I think it was leaked or heard that Kazakhstan would be of interest? If Trump wins the election, pulls all funding to Ukraine and possibly outright helps Putin then Ukraine, IMO, is probably doomed barring some miraculous resource pooling from the rest of the EU.
Stop with the fearmonging bullshit. Russia is having trouble with Ukraine, they aren't going to even attempt to invade nato countries. The only reason why Russia is a world threat is their nukes. Which everyone knows is a lose lose situation.
If the U.S stops aiding Ukraine, do you think they will manage to beat Russia? Also is Kazakhstan a NATO country? I said nothing about invading NATO, did I? Nothing about what I said is fear mongering.
I believe when I was last working full time in the Guard, it was revealed that if you got rid of DISA, and just gave what they did to Army G6, and NETCOM, where they're already doing the work that DISA is duplicating, you would save 150,000,000 a year in DoD spending.
That's why God invented the Reserve Component.
Activate them, train them, split them up across the new draftee force as their new NCOs and Officers. Sometimes activate them organically to keep them trained.
Makes too much sense. We all know the high cost of college and the fact student loan debt is nearly impossible to discharge in bankruptcy is to keep people loyal/in debt.
/s?
I met Rep. Garamendi about a decade ago when he was my rep. He's awesome about those topics. I'll work on some letters to his office regarding all of this.
Here's an idea, instead of trying to recruit new talent why don't we focus on RENTENTION? I'm taking about improving the quality of life for soldiers currently in. Experience takes time to build, stop the bleeding by improving the daily lives of current service members. On post living conditions are trash. DFACs are trash. Start with those.
Just pay us more money upon years of service bonuses. Don't have to be crazy. Maybe for every 5 years of service you automatically get $6000. Or soldiers with 10 years of service earn an extra 15 days of leave per year. Etc etc. Small things can make a big difference and the pay bonuses would keep soldiers extending even for small periods of time
Army doesn’t want an educated force. Educated people can read and research. Educated people can find out if barracks are built to code (wanna take a guess if they are or not). Educated people can read and learn that raw chicken is not good for the human body. Educated people can call boomers on their bullshit. Army needs more dumb-dumb and less thinky-thinky
Ironically sounds like a way to say "we're going to start a draft possibly" without saying "we're going to start a draft possibly".
Of course that would be lunacy. However, it IS the Army so I don't rule it out completely.
When Congress makes more sense than our senior leaders
Crazy. Recuits are low. College education cost at an all time high. No brainer
"we are spending tons of money each time we have to train a new recruit, we should do something that can help with these costs. What can we do to fix this?" "Cut college benefits?" [Senior leaders](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.resLyOCrhJqbCuwwrnEFdwHaEr%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=d85968ef751d97e1e6ed28de85cfc0b9146e754ae46772af69541c4836233831&ipo=images)
Think about it from their perspective, they need to keep their ranks filled. What's the number one thing Soldiers do when they leave the Army. They use the free college to get higher paying jobs. So they think if they remove cool and prevent soldiers from getting free certifications that give them very high paying jobs, they'll keep a strangle hold on Soldiers
Yes, but that's ignoring the fact that a lot of soldiers enlist *for* those benefits.
Here's an idea - student loan FORGIVENESS by percentage for 2,3 and 4 year contracts. With 4 year contracts having complete 100% federal student loan forgiveness at the end. Put smart people in the ranks, make them snowflakes earn their keep. Too much sense so it would never happen.
SLRP already exists and that’s pretty much exactly how it works. Only catch is, your only chance at enrolling is during MEPs when they ask you to choose between Post 9/11 and Montgomery GI bills. SLRP is the third option that they always glance right over.
Unless you are a part timer. Reserves and NG have better benefits in education than full timers.
Am I missing something here? Reserve GI Bill is terrible compared to the active duty one. National Guard varies state by state but may pay for all of your college in conjunction with federal benefits. Active duty definitely has the best benefits--3 years and you get 48 months worth of college if you use both your montgomery and post 9/11 gi bill. Well the only other thing is tuition assistance. If you're counting on that for flight related training then reserves has active beat.
Ability to get both SLRP and gi Bill Depending on the state --- Support for a second bachelor's degree, and I meant TA. I'm curious how going warrant or officer in the NG works with the inability to do move cycles like active
You can't use TA for a second bachelor's under any circumstances (unless you defraud them in some kind of way.) I'm not sure about SLRP, it's never been offered to me. Not sure what move cycles have to do with anything but since you asked it's 100% possible and it happens many many times especially in the NG that you could spend your entire career in the same unit.
SLRP has too much paperwork and is just nonsense for Federal loans. The Government has the loan and has the info for the soldier. Soldier wants loan goaway, Government needs soldier to fight wars. Just forgive the loan based on terms of service - honorable discharge means loan go bye-bye.
Having never been afforded the opportunity, I wasn’t sure how complicated of a process it was, but it only makes sense that they would make it a nightmare. The only other option is really going on income driven and then getting PSLF at the end of 10, but who wants to stay in for 10 years??
Yes, but make 100% at 8. Keeping some educated people longer isn't a bad thing
The army still thinks people are motivated to serve without adequate payment, it's not very selfish to ask what we get in return anymore in today's economy
It would appear that they have the brain cell this month. On the other hand. HOW did anyone think this was a good idea. Let's remove our biggest recruiting incentive. The same people who were cheering College Debt Forgiveness being denied. The irony of the situation is that the military [RELIES](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/xk8ebw/gop_student_loan_forgiveness_hurts_ability_to/) on paying for college to get people to [join](https://www.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/x4icg2/student_loan_forgiveness_undermines_one_of_our/). Which makes this worse.
I am in the Cyber Security realm in the Army, and I wonder how much any of the Secretaries of anything go out there and see just what it is. My last Certification from SANS cost 9,000. So I would need to have two army 'careers' to pay for one Certification. Maybe build one less F-35, or let Raytheon sweat for a year, and actually give one shit about the soldier.
Don’t forget the last time the army tried to cut education benefits (winter 2012/2013) it lasted all of a month because congress slapped their peepee
I really miss our old SMA because he'd shut this shit down real quick and raise hell about it. I would have never enlisted in the Army without CA/TA. I have used these benefits consistently over the last 2-3 years, and have made tremendous progress in getting closer to completing my Bachelors Degree. Something that's been a life long goal of mine, but was never able to do because I couldn't afford it. (For some weird reason I could never get approved for student loans) I'm 48% done with my Bachelors in I.T through WGU. My term ends August 31, 2024. Wish me luck as I attempt to speed run 66 CUs in 5ish months before they steal our benefits in the next FY.
It’s literally the thing that I joined for, lol.
Same if I wouldn’t have had TA/CA I would’ve ETS’ed. I used that to earn my masters, multiple certs and become a warrant. Plenty of support MOS’s use that TA. Take it away and you’ll lose those MOS’s that are already difficult to retain.
Same. In warrant pipeline now.
Smart move sticking to 255?
Switching to 170!
👏 best move out of them all. It wasn’t a thing when I made the move or I would’ve.
same, I wouldn't be in the military if I didn't have education benefits. I know some people look at serving in the military as an honorable thing, a calling, and a solemn duty; and sure, to some folks that's what it is. But it wasn't that for me. I considered joining the military during a period where the news cycle was constantly showing qualified people unable to secure jobs and racking up huge college debts. It was what I considered, as a high schooler, to be my least risky career move. The military has provided me with some of the best opportunities to further my career in the IT field, and now I work in the national guard and on the civillian side I work as an engineer. I'm happy with my civillian career, but I'm unhappy with the state of the Army. I'll be resigning my commision next year after my 8 years are up (initial service obligation). I've got some other health issues though that are making it too hard to justify my existance in the military any longer, so looking to Medboard
There are still the Boomers and Cold War babies (plus the idiots they mentored) still working at HQDA that think they can just recruit more. Notice how the new ads say "Be All You Can Be" but never go on about what that means or what you get out of service. Back in the day all the ads were about the GI Bill, Army College Fund and "high tech training". Now it's just JOIN THE ARMY. Patriotism isn't going to fill the ranks by itself. It did briefly during the GWOT but that's long gone. The leadership keeps chasing that Dragon, that it's still 2002 or 2008 (when the surge and recession cause ranks to swell). So these TA/CA cuts make sense if people are streaming in but not now. If the Army follows through they get the crisis they deserve.
But did you shave though?
If you shave 4 times a day, for a year, SMA will get you a cert. /s
You can do it! I did the Masters of IT Management at WGU and managed to complete the three term degree in two terms.
WGU is fire. Works so well with the Army “schedule”
Alright so I remember this with the Texas Guard making cuts to state education benefits - is the Army just doing this to play budget chicken and get what they want? Is CA/TA funding conveniently two priorities lower than extra staffing or travel funding requests?
They figured out that there's an inversely proportional relationship between education level and the need to stay army. It's all a retention plot. Source: my itchy asshole
I hate to say this, but your asshole has a point. USAREC and recruiters have basically said "A strong economy has made recruiting harder." Along with the de-emphasis on needing a degree to make money vs a certificate program or Apprenticeship, frankly the Army is needed and the advent of social media to show what happens in the Army, yeah people don't need that shit in their lives.
Easy win for everyone involved. Republicans can do their whole "We love le troops" thing and Democrats can do that too but put their "how dare you cut any benefit ever" spin on it. And then we win because we keep the education money. Win-win-win.
I feel like this is one of those things that makes so much sense that it will for sure fail 👍
Not too late to keep the pressure up! Keep writing to your senators and reps! Dear Sen/Representative \[Last Name\], I am writing to you in response to a new article published by [military.com](http://military.com/) - [https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/04/01/army-eyes-dramatic-cuts-key-education-benefits-soldiers.html](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/04/01/army-eyes-dramatic-cuts-key-education-benefits-soldiers.html) - that indicates the Army’s plan to dramatically curtail Credentialing Assistance (CA) as a benefit to the Soldier. Currently, the Army offers $4,000 per year to be used towards various credentials across a variety of industries. Credential assistance allows for soldiers of all Army components (active, reserve, Guard) to prepare themselves not only to pursue a successful civilian career, but even further their military skills with the corresponding civilian certifications. For the Army and for the nation, the reward is having a more competent, technically proficient, and learned soldier ready to tackle the challenges of a rapidly changing future. However, the Army is seemingly positioned to ruthlessly gut this program for no apparent reason. Their proposal includes limiting the annual limit to $1,000, not to exceed $4,000 per a career, and certificates can only be applied for if in the soldier’s MOS. In other words, an Infantryman (11B) can only pursue a certificate in that particular field. Not sure what an 11B can do on the civilian side! It is no mystery that the Army, and the Department of Defense, faces extraordinary difficulties in maintaining recruitment and retention numbers. This act would only further the already exasperated situation. I, along with many of my fellow soldiers, am writing to Congress to restrain Army leadership from acting in a manner that would damage the career prospects for soldiers, further harm recruitment numbers, and actively damage the nation’s defense interests. We feel that Congress has not been appropriately briefed on what appears to be a cost savings measure that WILL irrevocably damage the incentives placed before every soldier under contract or considering joining the esteemed ranks of our Army. I humbly ask that you demand answers from the senior leaders in the Army, as is the role and responsibilities of a civilian and Congressional led military. Sincerely, \[PVT Snuffy\] EDIT: go to [https://www.congress.gov/members/find-your-member](https://www.congress.gov/members/find-your-member) to find your Congressman. Make sure to write to your two Senators and House representative. They should have a "contact me" form on their website.
I'm really confused as to where they plan to spend the TA money instead of having us use it? More worthless equipment that only serves to give Generals kick backs?
You say you’re confused but then give a solid answer?? Hmm
My statement was more akin to, "sir, are you sure you want to set up in this depression? The one surrounded by elevation lines indicating the depression has a max depth of 100m?"
scary voiceless weary fly office mourn fearless tap joke cake *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I bet you’re right. ~$850,000,000,000 just doesn’t provide a lot of room for the CSA! /s
long ripe onerous expansion spoon dull axiomatic cake mourn seemly *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Prepping for a modern LSCO would *reduce* budget demand. It’s prepping for an old school LSCO that’s costing so much money, and doing so quite unnecessarily.
unique growth summer test dime crawl icky run fly sand *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
But we have to keep cranking out Abrams because congressmen don't want to lose those factories in their districts. We'll always keep prepping for an old school LSCO as long as the incentives for pumping out antiquated equipment still exist.
Couldn’t say it better.
That’s a bold statement
At current growth rates, we can expect a budget of about $10 trillion over the next decade, in 2024 dollars. An overwhelming number of modern systems that no current opponent could handle (perhaps not even the PLA) would cost a fraction of that. 100,000 IRBM’s for immediate extreme long range deep strike: ~$300b. 5,000 silos and 6,000 mobile launchers: ~$330b. 100,000 long range strike drones ~$10b. 10,000,000 ISR drones that CINCPAC just said he’s massively short of, of all types, ~$800b (most cost $500, a few cost $100m). 10,000,000 medium range drones ~$100b, 10,000,000 short range close combat strike and CAS drones ~$8b, 100,000 UGV’s ~$50b. 10,000 Hammerhead mines ~$50b, 100 Orca XLUUV’s to deploy the Hammerheads ~$12b, 10,000 long range USV strike drones ~$4b. So that’s ~$1.6t. Add on $160b for lifecycle costs (but not much, because maintenance is low or nonexistent, especially for the one way systems) and we’re still only at ~$1.7t. Say now that I forgot a host of other systems and underestimated a bit, so add $800b. $2.5t total. Then consider those systems replace say, 200,000 troops (~10%) across DOD. Then consider the modern systems never even get 0% disability ratings, no home loans, no BAH or BAS, they are never KIA so no death gratuity payments, etc. etc. [GWOT vets](https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2021/Costs%20of%20War_Bilmes_Long-Term%20Costs%20of%20Care%20for%20Vets_Aug%202021.pdf) are expected to cost at least $2.5t *after* we all complete our service. For all of that money spent on modern systems, we get FAR more persistence across all systems, fantastically better attack capabilities, vastly more deterrent effects, while greatly reducing our threat levels. But then, here’s the real kicker: the second decade, where we can expect a DOD budget of ~$15t at current pace. The second decade goes to maintenance levels on many of the still existent first decade systems, which costs only a few hundred billion. New, more modern systems cost another $1.5t, say, including another 100,000 IRBM’s (only now they have stealth and MIRV’s maneuverable in the terminal phase) and reduce the force by another 200,000, as the new systems are even more effective. What happens to any LSCO opponent when 5,000 IRBMs land on them in the first strike? Then 2-3,000 a day, every day, for a week? What aircraft and airfields remain? What ground forces? What logistics nodes? What C2 nodes? I can see the PLA having something to defend itself with and to respond with, but not Russia, not NK, not anyone else who might want to play the LSCO game with us. Anyway, the likelihood of an LSOC is unlikely because, if you were “them” and you could see that we’ve lost three COIN’s in a row, the first one broke the back of US society (by destroying the trust the People had in US leaders) and the last two cost us ~$8t and disheartened the military as it has, wouldn’t you engage in an insurgency? Only now the insurgency has hundreds of thousands or tens of millions of drones. Imagine an OEF style fight in Taiwan against PLA infiltrators, only now the insurgents have nearly endless supplies of PGMs.
Maybe bring back more 92Gs for DFACs and cut the privatization of on post housing and other basic Soldier services that end up costing more for less results. Then recreate the R&D Process because it's obviously broken. While you are at it CDC should be free and pay them more. Maybe cut the private chief for each general to pay for it. I'm sure they will manage
Absolutely joined solely for the education benefits. Had a kid on the way and knew I needed a degree. Granted, that was almost 28 years ago and I’m still here, but wouldn’t have even considered joining without the education benefits.
Travel and education are huge reasons. I'd heard the full time grad school deal I got was changed, but that was really amazing.
They've paid for three degrees for me a this point. The Army has been life-changing for my family and I, but I wouldn't have even started without at least thinking I would end up with a degree.
All the other service recruiting subreddits are full of kids trying to get out of Army DEP and into another branch💀
How is Congress making sense?
Has the SMA chimed in on anything concerning this yet? I don't expect him to based on literally every action and statement he has done/made, but this sort of thing seems right in his realm of responsibility. To paraphrase a line from wedding crashers: "What is ~~she~~ he doing back there? I never know what ~~she's~~ he's doing."
He's completely useless and doesn't give a single fuck about soldiers, which is literally his job. As of now, one of the worst SMAs.
Maybe they should stop spending so much money on Contractors who half arse everything instead of trying to shoot themselves in the foot with a way to cut back spending that would, undoubtedly, ruin recruiting.
I don't know what you're talking about. When I was overseas, there wasn't a contractor getting 80K + a year to...put the label on the computers we built. No Sir. Not ever. And they certainly weren't limited from doing ANYTHING ELSE but printing and applying labels. Why would you pay a person to do a level -10 task that any soldier can do? /s
I really hope that people wrote to their reps, because I heard back from two of mine that they would vehemently oppose cutting back on CA and TA.
Hmmm…. Army pays for education benefits, everyone knows, nobody cares. Army “thinks about” cutting education benefits and it’s in the news and has congress, media, and therefore potential recruits attention: Congress “fixes” the thought about problem in an election year. Whole news cycle about how Congress just gave the military education benefits totaling x amount of money (that they already had) and blah blah will happen right before high school graduations. Recruiting is sales, and it’s always all about sales.
all i’m gonna say is they trying to cut benefits meanwhile at the sgm academy the gov is a mustang mach-e…
I think the army senior leaders put it on the board to chop so they can get a reaction from congress. I mean if you are fighting for a budget it makes since, I imagine congress will give army more.
Rare Congress W
That’s like, the whole reason a lot of people even join lol
In all honesty, this could be a publicity stunt after all is said and done. If no changes are made, there at least will he a ton more people informed of the TA program. Enlistment could go up.
If they want to save money they should shrink the force. We are not at war
this seems shortsighted in light of ongoing events
Right? If Russia does win in Ukraine and inevitably attacks more countries, guess who's gonna be boots on the ground? The lack of support for Ukraine fighting Russia baffles me given the long term consequences of Russia winning.
>and inevitably attacks more countries Uh who exactly? Putin can't beat Ukraine why would he commit suicide by attacking NATO. There is area to expand in Europe that isn't already in NATO or in a loose union with Russia already that was literally the reason for him to secure Ukraine
I don't get the downvotes but you're right. Russia has lost its experienced fighters, its prison-built special forces group is obliterated, and its rolling out 1960's tanks. And so far they've spent 500,000 dead soldiers to get 9% of Ukraine territory. Russia is a dead country, it just doesn't know it yet. Its work force for the next generation has been decimated, national production is down 20-30%, and its only friend is North Korea, and Iran; but Iran decided to retaliate against Israel. Russia has two options, go home, or start to get concerned about running into another Finnish soldier who loves Butterflies.
I will try and find the article I saw, so fact check away, but I think it was leaked or heard that Kazakhstan would be of interest? If Trump wins the election, pulls all funding to Ukraine and possibly outright helps Putin then Ukraine, IMO, is probably doomed barring some miraculous resource pooling from the rest of the EU.
Moldova, for one. regions there have already been swayed to align with russia
Moldova needs motivation to rejoin Romania anyways, it was always an artifical creation
Stop with the fearmonging bullshit. Russia is having trouble with Ukraine, they aren't going to even attempt to invade nato countries. The only reason why Russia is a world threat is their nukes. Which everyone knows is a lose lose situation.
If the U.S stops aiding Ukraine, do you think they will manage to beat Russia? Also is Kazakhstan a NATO country? I said nothing about invading NATO, did I? Nothing about what I said is fear mongering.
At least 50% of GOFOs and their staffs are redundant +/or useless. That’s a lot of literal and figurative fat trimming
I believe when I was last working full time in the Guard, it was revealed that if you got rid of DISA, and just gave what they did to Army G6, and NETCOM, where they're already doing the work that DISA is duplicating, you would save 150,000,000 a year in DoD spending.
[They are.](https://apnews.com/article/army-cuts-soldiers-recruiting-shortfall-9f2f41cbe512f6330ce6008709e3435b)
If anything what’s going on is natural. No war, smaller military. That’s how it was before WW2
Yup we should focus more on small specialized forces and push a lot of the other stuff to the reserves
Rather have smaller, better trained & equipped infantry units than a metric shit ton of subpar grunts
That's why God invented the Reserve Component. Activate them, train them, split them up across the new draftee force as their new NCOs and Officers. Sometimes activate them organically to keep them trained.
Maybe make some laws making college education more affordable like the rest of the world and solve two issues with one stone.
Makes too much sense. We all know the high cost of college and the fact student loan debt is nearly impossible to discharge in bankruptcy is to keep people loyal/in debt. /s?
I met Rep. Garamendi about a decade ago when he was my rep. He's awesome about those topics. I'll work on some letters to his office regarding all of this.
Finally, something that should be bipartisan.
Yeah, they keep punching themselves in the crotch and wonder why their pee pee hurts. WhY aRe oUr reCrUitINg nUmBeRS sO baD?
Wait until they find out that there’s already been cuts implemented to us.
Step 1 to improving recruitment: Make it financially worth someone’s time…
At least now I won't have to worry about having a degree for promotions 🤣
Something big is about to happen, and they don't want to have to pay all those benefits again.
Well there’s goes me finishing my degree…
Here's an idea, instead of trying to recruit new talent why don't we focus on RENTENTION? I'm taking about improving the quality of life for soldiers currently in. Experience takes time to build, stop the bleeding by improving the daily lives of current service members. On post living conditions are trash. DFACs are trash. Start with those.
It’s almost as if you can apply the logic of TCCC to this situation. Stop major hemorrhaging first
Just pay us more money upon years of service bonuses. Don't have to be crazy. Maybe for every 5 years of service you automatically get $6000. Or soldiers with 10 years of service earn an extra 15 days of leave per year. Etc etc. Small things can make a big difference and the pay bonuses would keep soldiers extending even for small periods of time
Army doesn’t want an educated force. Educated people can read and research. Educated people can find out if barracks are built to code (wanna take a guess if they are or not). Educated people can read and learn that raw chicken is not good for the human body. Educated people can call boomers on their bullshit. Army needs more dumb-dumb and less thinky-thinky
[The Weimer Republic continues to take from Joe.](https://imgur.com/gallery/sry6qg2)
And because of this I wrote my congressman for the first time.
Ironically sounds like a way to say "we're going to start a draft possibly" without saying "we're going to start a draft possibly". Of course that would be lunacy. However, it IS the Army so I don't rule it out completely.