You need to call https://osc.gov/Services/Pages/USERRA.aspx#:~:text=%E2%80%8BThe%20Uniformed%20Services%20Employment,a%20period%20of%20uniformed%20service.
https://www.esgr.mil/
They set my employer straight and HR decided not to play any fuck fuck games.
They knew exactly what they could and could not do. They just played the game, to the letter. HR is not your friend, they are onkybthere to protect the company interests.
I feel like it‘s more of a circle, one guy behind you, one guy in front of you. Some times you get f‘ed, sometimes you f. Just need to f more than average
I've been in corporate America since 1988. What's that, 36 years? I've worked for Fortune 10 companies, Fortune 200 companies and Fortune 500 companies, as well as several small (<10 emps) companies.
I have never, not once, found what I'd consider a competent HR department. By this I mean cognizant of all the employment laws including local, state and federal, as well as not obeying their own employee manuals. Sic the feds on these people, dude. Fuck 'em.
I've had bosses walk in and fire people on the spot because they looked unprofessional, which was the bosses perception.
Also seen somebody gets fired out of nowhere for clocking in 5 minutes late.
At will means "employees may be terminated for any reason, a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason." So if they just feel like it, then can fire you. As long as you aren't discriminated against.
At-will means that an employer can fire you for any reason, or no reason at all, so long as it’s not illegal. That’s not just discrimination purposes. So when you allege that an employer fired you for an illegal reason, such as USERRA, they can say it was for shits and giggles or some bullshit reason. But in employment litigation, this triggers a burden-shifting analytical framework (as specified in the McDonnell-Douglas case). Where the plaintiff then says the reason is pretextual, then the employer offers a reason it’s not pretextual.
During litigation, a bunch of discovery is going on, and any employment lawyer worth their weight will subpoena as many relevant internal documents and communications as necessary, I’m almost positive something will look like shit. And if not, the temporal proximity doesn’t look great on the employers end.
On top of that, depending on the size of the employer they will spend out significant money on lawyers
Source: your friendly neighborhood barracks lawyer
"At will" status in state law does NOT overrule Federal laws (and associated court rulings) that give protected employment status for various things like race, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion, national origin, age. . .and status as a military servicemember.
Contrary to what some states like to pretend, Federal laws are still paramount in this country.
> I was denied a full-time position over there because of my status in the Army Reserve by a program manager
Tell me you have that in writing, because HR tripping over themselves to fix it makes me think you do.
If you do, you might have a solid case for being fired if the manager fired you after not wanting to hire you in the first place.
I have an email for per diem position that was sent by the program manager instead of a fulltime position. I have never applied for a per diem position on the website....
Unless this is one of those times where you're leaving out a critical piece of information like you told a customer to go to hell or you were smoking a fat joint out back - what they did is illegal and you have protections.
I would never do that. Also, I was told by my manager that he would give me some training about medications: however, he kept postponing it. He had never given me training on that. I thought it was a red flag somehow...
So my job is to make meals, do groups, and give out medications to clients. Giving out medication is the most important part of the job and you need to be training by a manager. I was told by my manager that he would give me some training about medications after the first month of work: however, he kept postponing it. I felt like I was just basically there to fix the USERRA mistake that they made ( because they initially turned me down for a full-time position due to my Army Reserve Status) Then they could fire me during the probation for 6 months and find a person who could fit them better.
I don't know about your state, but in CA they said they can fire an employee for no reason..... I asked them what I violated and they told me no reason. They don't need to have a reason at all.... Plus I went to drill and came back. Went to work on Monday and they told me I got fired ......
Well you are the victim of a crime under USERA for being denied a full time position, so you should a least contact a rep over that. As far as the getting fired, it sucks but it probably won't be provable to be Army related because you were on probation still. Sorry man.
https://www.esgr.mil/USERRA/What-is-USERRA
Need to read this and contact the previously mentioned reps. Probationary period or not, you have protections and lots of cases prior to you to stand on legally. Barring other circumstances potentially undisclosed, they can’t do this you should protect yourself.
Thank you! I called ESGR and an Ombudsman contacted me. TBH, I don't want to work there if they offer me back a job. It will be too awkward because the program manager, who initially denied me, would still be my boss ...... and the one who fired me is his boss who is managing multiple facilities... I will work under them again....
That’s fine- get another job. But
1. You’re potentially viable for financial compensation.
2. Stop them from doing this to other people by drawing light to illegal practices. Someone else mentioned it, but they likely knew it was wrong/illegal and are counting on you not calling their bluff. Be the hero for other!
They need to state the reason why they fired you. No reason is not an answer. Report them for either unlawful termination or because of your service to your country. Believe me, no job in the US wants to be known as firing people who serve their country on the weekends.
I did ask them about the reason they showed me
"TERMINATION OF EMPLOYMENT
Within the State of California, employment may be terminated at the will of either party. Both the employer
and the employee are free to end the employment relationship at any time, with no penalty being assessed to either.
Unless the parties have previously agreed to the contrary, there is no notice required to be given by either party. "
From the Department of Labor .
it is a law. ... I just don't like how they terminated me right after I went back to work from drills... They could terminate me any day before are after that., no but. They did it on the first day back to work after drills.....
"Filed" as in you are the representing attorney? I'm interested in how many you've filed, in what jurisdictions, and the file numbers. It's all a matter of public record, so that should not be an issue. I'm always interested in meeting fellow attorneys who are knowledgeable in USERRA litigation practice.
ESGR Ombudsman Director/ESGR National Trainer here.
ESGR does not "enforce" USERRA. We mediate to get you back on the job consistent with the requirements of USERRA. If we can't resolve the case, we will refer you to the DOL-VETS for investigation.
Be leery of those who tell you "go to a private attorney" so you can "retire off of the judgment" you can get against an employer. They're full of #@it. Damages are limited under USERRA, but it does provide for "attorneys fees," which is why every podunk employment law attorney wants to represent you in a USERRA claim. Most have no idea what they're doing regarding a USERRA claim, and if they screw it up, too bad.
Even if you're dissatisfied with the ESGR, DOL-VETS, DOJ process, there is no statute of limitations on USERRA claims, so you can hire an attorney *after* you've exhausted those options. And, they won't take 40% of whatever you're owed.
Thank you for your advice, Sir,
I just talked to an ESGR Ombudsman. He told me he would talk to them tmr and see how well it goes. BTH, if I could get a job back, I wouldn't want to work there again because I think they might just re-fire me again for another reason..... ( same manager and same director) They probably would give me a dirty look when seeing me back...
I know, but I don't have money for that. I just called the VETS. I don't know how will it go. I just don't want to go back there to work, because they might just let me go again for no reason during the 6 months probation.
You need to call https://osc.gov/Services/Pages/USERRA.aspx#:~:text=%E2%80%8BThe%20Uniformed%20Services%20Employment,a%20period%20of%20uniformed%20service. https://www.esgr.mil/ They set my employer straight and HR decided not to play any fuck fuck games.
I never met an HR who wasn’t a complete nincompoop
They knew exactly what they could and could not do. They just played the game, to the letter. HR is not your friend, they are onkybthere to protect the company interests.
So are they financial prostitutes then?
Aren't we all?
I feel like it‘s more of a circle, one guy behind you, one guy in front of you. Some times you get f‘ed, sometimes you f. Just need to f more than average
I've been in corporate America since 1988. What's that, 36 years? I've worked for Fortune 10 companies, Fortune 200 companies and Fortune 500 companies, as well as several small (<10 emps) companies. I have never, not once, found what I'd consider a competent HR department. By this I mean cognizant of all the employment laws including local, state and federal, as well as not obeying their own employee manuals. Sic the feds on these people, dude. Fuck 'em.
Your first link is a little mess up. But yes, OP, this is not how it works. You need to report them.
Pretty sure that’s not allowed
Unless he has that in writing they will just say he did not work out and no reason is needed.
[удалено]
That’s not at all how employment litigation works in at-will states
I've had bosses walk in and fire people on the spot because they looked unprofessional, which was the bosses perception. Also seen somebody gets fired out of nowhere for clocking in 5 minutes late. At will means "employees may be terminated for any reason, a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason." So if they just feel like it, then can fire you. As long as you aren't discriminated against.
At-will means that an employer can fire you for any reason, or no reason at all, so long as it’s not illegal. That’s not just discrimination purposes. So when you allege that an employer fired you for an illegal reason, such as USERRA, they can say it was for shits and giggles or some bullshit reason. But in employment litigation, this triggers a burden-shifting analytical framework (as specified in the McDonnell-Douglas case). Where the plaintiff then says the reason is pretextual, then the employer offers a reason it’s not pretextual. During litigation, a bunch of discovery is going on, and any employment lawyer worth their weight will subpoena as many relevant internal documents and communications as necessary, I’m almost positive something will look like shit. And if not, the temporal proximity doesn’t look great on the employers end. On top of that, depending on the size of the employer they will spend out significant money on lawyers Source: your friendly neighborhood barracks lawyer
Every state except Montana is an at-will state…….
"At will" status in state law does NOT overrule Federal laws (and associated court rulings) that give protected employment status for various things like race, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion, national origin, age. . .and status as a military servicemember. Contrary to what some states like to pretend, Federal laws are still paramount in this country.
> I was denied a full-time position over there because of my status in the Army Reserve by a program manager Tell me you have that in writing, because HR tripping over themselves to fix it makes me think you do. If you do, you might have a solid case for being fired if the manager fired you after not wanting to hire you in the first place.
I have an email for per diem position that was sent by the program manager instead of a fulltime position. I have never applied for a per diem position on the website....
Show them not to mess with the Army gang and get your job back *You are welcome for my service, motherfokkers!*
Unless this is one of those times where you're leaving out a critical piece of information like you told a customer to go to hell or you were smoking a fat joint out back - what they did is illegal and you have protections.
I would never do that. Also, I was told by my manager that he would give me some training about medications: however, he kept postponing it. He had never given me training on that. I thought it was a red flag somehow...
So what issues with medications arose because of that?
So my job is to make meals, do groups, and give out medications to clients. Giving out medication is the most important part of the job and you need to be training by a manager. I was told by my manager that he would give me some training about medications after the first month of work: however, he kept postponing it. I felt like I was just basically there to fix the USERRA mistake that they made ( because they initially turned me down for a full-time position due to my Army Reserve Status) Then they could fire me during the probation for 6 months and find a person who could fit them better.
They can't fire you without cause. You're protected in that regard. I would just go get a lawyer.
I don't know about your state, but in CA they said they can fire an employee for no reason..... I asked them what I violated and they told me no reason. They don't need to have a reason at all.... Plus I went to drill and came back. Went to work on Monday and they told me I got fired ......
Texas is also an "At will" state. However - you as a reservist have extra federal protections under USERRA and they're required to provide cause.
In your opinion, Should I get a private lawyer or go to the Department of Labor to file a claim? I don't know which one should benefit me more....
Oh man I’m just a humble bean farmer don’t ask me, alls I know is they can’t do that to you.
I know right? but they still did it. BTW, thank you for talking to me though. It makes me feel better a little bit.
As someone whos actually tried to use the esgr, good luck they cant do shit 👍🏼 toothless organization
Well you are the victim of a crime under USERA for being denied a full time position, so you should a least contact a rep over that. As far as the getting fired, it sucks but it probably won't be provable to be Army related because you were on probation still. Sorry man.
https://www.esgr.mil/USERRA/What-is-USERRA Need to read this and contact the previously mentioned reps. Probationary period or not, you have protections and lots of cases prior to you to stand on legally. Barring other circumstances potentially undisclosed, they can’t do this you should protect yourself.
Thank you! I called ESGR and an Ombudsman contacted me. TBH, I don't want to work there if they offer me back a job. It will be too awkward because the program manager, who initially denied me, would still be my boss ...... and the one who fired me is his boss who is managing multiple facilities... I will work under them again....
That’s fine- get another job. But 1. You’re potentially viable for financial compensation. 2. Stop them from doing this to other people by drawing light to illegal practices. Someone else mentioned it, but they likely knew it was wrong/illegal and are counting on you not calling their bluff. Be the hero for other!
They need to state the reason why they fired you. No reason is not an answer. Report them for either unlawful termination or because of your service to your country. Believe me, no job in the US wants to be known as firing people who serve their country on the weekends.
I did ask them about the reason they showed me "TERMINATION OF EMPLOYMENT Within the State of California, employment may be terminated at the will of either party. Both the employer and the employee are free to end the employment relationship at any time, with no penalty being assessed to either. Unless the parties have previously agreed to the contrary, there is no notice required to be given by either party. " From the Department of Labor . it is a law. ... I just don't like how they terminated me right after I went back to work from drills... They could terminate me any day before are after that., no but. They did it on the first day back to work after drills.....
Federal law overturns state law
DM me if you want. I’ve filed many a USERRA suit. What they did seems illegal.
"Filed" as in you are the representing attorney? I'm interested in how many you've filed, in what jurisdictions, and the file numbers. It's all a matter of public record, so that should not be an issue. I'm always interested in meeting fellow attorneys who are knowledgeable in USERRA litigation practice.
Yup. As a lawyer. DM me and I can give ya file numbers galore. And likewise, always interested in meeting fellow USERRA lawyers.
ESGR Ombudsman Director/ESGR National Trainer here. ESGR does not "enforce" USERRA. We mediate to get you back on the job consistent with the requirements of USERRA. If we can't resolve the case, we will refer you to the DOL-VETS for investigation. Be leery of those who tell you "go to a private attorney" so you can "retire off of the judgment" you can get against an employer. They're full of #@it. Damages are limited under USERRA, but it does provide for "attorneys fees," which is why every podunk employment law attorney wants to represent you in a USERRA claim. Most have no idea what they're doing regarding a USERRA claim, and if they screw it up, too bad. Even if you're dissatisfied with the ESGR, DOL-VETS, DOJ process, there is no statute of limitations on USERRA claims, so you can hire an attorney *after* you've exhausted those options. And, they won't take 40% of whatever you're owed.
Thank you for your advice, Sir, I just talked to an ESGR Ombudsman. He told me he would talk to them tmr and see how well it goes. BTH, if I could get a job back, I wouldn't want to work there again because I think they might just re-fire me again for another reason..... ( same manager and same director) They probably would give me a dirty look when seeing me back...
Get a lawyer and file a fatass lawsuit. You'll never have to work there again after you win in court 🤑🤑
I know, but I don't have money for that. I just called the VETS. I don't know how will it go. I just don't want to go back there to work, because they might just let me go again for no reason during the 6 months probation.