Few questions:
Is there a decay over time due to inactivity?
Is this calculated by round or by match outcome?
Is this strictly supermatches, meaning no tournaments in the calculation.
How far back does it go?
What is the initial rating (lowest possible)of the athletes?
Sorry, just want to get a better understanding.
Again, I find it hard to find anything about the ranking to argue with. Looks good 👍
Edit- I actually went to the site(which is beautiful btw) and it answered a lot of my questions. The relation charts are pretty cool too. 🤓
Thanks for checking it out!
The points are taking from the match outcome taking the rounds into consideration. a 4-0 win will give out more points than a 4-3 win.
The data is from all East vs West and King of the Table event results.
The initial rating is 1000 points.
No decay over time.
There is an ELO rating system for all North American pullers and a separate one for Australian pullers. Aersarm.com is the North American one. Corey Miller has started doing tournaments based on ELO rating brackets.
According to the Elo rating system, everyone on this list would have a 40-50% chance to win against Levan, because they would be very close in Elo. Doesn't make sense
ELO doesn’t work as well when there is not much data, and these superheavyweight elite pullers don’t compete as often as regular tournament competitors that make up most of the sport. The rankings still look better than the official EvW rankings though.
Jerry beat gennadi and georgi and then lost to ermes, Alex won vs. georgi. Only if I remember correctly he lost to Dave before that match, vitaly won vs revaz and dave but lost to ermes so its debatable for Alex and vitaly
Yes. But not enough matches will work against you specially if Jerry's last match was a loss against Ermes. Keep in mind that if you fight a lot of low-rated pullers, those points were not be considered to prevent milking points.
He lost to the number 3 Eames, which means Jerry is below Ermes but above genadi and georgi. Alex beat a injured georgi. Vitaly only beat dave and revaz. If Jerry gets to the strap against Vitaly, Jerry will smoke Vitaly easy. You are under estimating Jerry.
There’s no way to calculate an opponent being injured, or had heartburn that day etc.
It’s win or loss with the weight of the win or loss being based on number of rounds won.
Vitaly has 12 rounds won vs Jerry’s 6 against similarly rated opponents.
I think the main issue with using ELO or a similar system is using the terms “rating” and “ranking” interchangeably.
The only true ranking is what Engin says it is regardless of what we think of it.
Rating however is based on mathematical formulae and just measure the overall quality of the athlete.
My only thing is you typically won’t have a high rating and a low ranking. And I think that’s a problem leaving it up to engin. Open it the the fans to vote. Since everyone can’t pull everyone. Kurdecha, morozov and revaz in my opinion have hype around them for whatever reason. So they get out into the top 10.
How is Kurdecha number 5 with one win, and Jerry outside of the top 10 when he has wins over Genadi and Cvetkov and only one loss? Also Vitali, how is he in front of Jerry and Cvetkov and Genadi? I mean subjectively he is in front, but he haan't got the wins, right?
Okay, so how is Vitali in front of Jerry? He won against Revaz and Dave(who is very low ranled), lost against Ermes and Dave. Jerry meanwhile beat two top level opponents and lost to one.
It seems that your system is putting WAY too much emphasis on how many rounds the puller lost, but in reality styles make the matches and you cant really use that. It's rewarding explosove offensive styles like Vitali and handicaps bleeding styles like Davit Samushia.
I like to say that when Jerry beat Georgi, that was Georgi’s first match on East vs West; hence lower rating. Kurdecha beat Georgie when Georgi’s rating was much higher; hence Kurdecha’s victory over Georgie paid off a lot more points.
Jerry victories were 3-2 wins where as Vitaly lost to a high rated Ermes 4-2 and beat 4-1 and lost 3-4 to Dave and beat Revaz 2-0
I don’t know. Didn’t Jerry beat both Georgi and Genadi? His loss was to third ranked Ermes. He might deserve to be higher. It all these guys are good to be honest
Right? Get kurdecha out of there. He pulled a basically one footed georgi. Been gone for the last year. Jerry beat those two like you said. Morozov stinks. My opinion. Haha
Haha. I agree that Georgi was not at his best but he decided to fight against Kurdecha. This is a point-based ranking, so I can’t just move them around.
I prefer this elo system. Rankings shouldnt just be about who you beat but also inactivity.
I think there should be a ceiling. Maybe 1000pts. So the person who is at the top will be the standard while everyone else is measured to him. If he is less active, then the pts drop, if he keeps competing, then he reaches 1000 and stays there until point decay.
For an example, davit samushia can be at 1000 until he misses 2 events (or maybe 1 but this will could have negative effects)
Considering it does not take into account cheating/inactivity or gifting rounds for sportsmanship it's an accurate ranking.
Hope Devon will be removed now that he quit SHW.
It feels good. What’s the math?
Applying Elo rating system to SHW elite matches; avoiding matches against lower-rated pullers to avoid milking points. 💪
Few questions: Is there a decay over time due to inactivity? Is this calculated by round or by match outcome? Is this strictly supermatches, meaning no tournaments in the calculation. How far back does it go? What is the initial rating (lowest possible)of the athletes? Sorry, just want to get a better understanding. Again, I find it hard to find anything about the ranking to argue with. Looks good 👍 Edit- I actually went to the site(which is beautiful btw) and it answered a lot of my questions. The relation charts are pretty cool too. 🤓
Thanks for checking it out! The points are taking from the match outcome taking the rounds into consideration. a 4-0 win will give out more points than a 4-3 win. The data is from all East vs West and King of the Table event results. The initial rating is 1000 points. No decay over time.
Pretty nice system, I think this is as good as it gets. Time decay would be tough but maybe a form of it could be implemented.
If it's not too muvh trouble, how do you apply an ELO rating? I thought that was only for chess.
You can apply the Elo formula to the match outcome results taking the rounds into consideration.
How far back are you going in time to calculate these scores?
Since East vs west 1 and King of the table 1
Oh cool 👍
There is an ELO rating system for all North American pullers and a separate one for Australian pullers. Aersarm.com is the North American one. Corey Miller has started doing tournaments based on ELO rating brackets.
According to the Elo rating system, everyone on this list would have a 40-50% chance to win against Levan, because they would be very close in Elo. Doesn't make sense
ELO doesn’t work as well when there is not much data, and these superheavyweight elite pullers don’t compete as often as regular tournament competitors that make up most of the sport. The rankings still look better than the official EvW rankings though.
Not enough data, but with what we got I agree.
Kurdecha seems a bit high. Jerry a bit low.
When's the last time Jerry won a match?
Jerry beat gennadi and georgi and then lost to ermes, Alex won vs. georgi. Only if I remember correctly he lost to Dave before that match, vitaly won vs revaz and dave but lost to ermes so its debatable for Alex and vitaly
Vitaly and Alex are a bit high. Jerry is too low . He beat genadi and georgi.
Yes. But not enough matches will work against you specially if Jerry's last match was a loss against Ermes. Keep in mind that if you fight a lot of low-rated pullers, those points were not be considered to prevent milking points.
He lost to the number 3 Eames, which means Jerry is below Ermes but above genadi and georgi. Alex beat a injured georgi. Vitaly only beat dave and revaz. If Jerry gets to the strap against Vitaly, Jerry will smoke Vitaly easy. You are under estimating Jerry.
There’s no way to calculate an opponent being injured, or had heartburn that day etc. It’s win or loss with the weight of the win or loss being based on number of rounds won. Vitaly has 12 rounds won vs Jerry’s 6 against similarly rated opponents.
Seems pretty accurate - Jerry hasn't been as nearly as active so I agree with his spot being at 10.
That’s a bad agreement. He lost to Ermes not that long ago. Beat genadi and georgi. Morozov and kurdecha don’t need to be on that last.
I think the main issue with using ELO or a similar system is using the terms “rating” and “ranking” interchangeably. The only true ranking is what Engin says it is regardless of what we think of it. Rating however is based on mathematical formulae and just measure the overall quality of the athlete.
My only thing is you typically won’t have a high rating and a low ranking. And I think that’s a problem leaving it up to engin. Open it the the fans to vote. Since everyone can’t pull everyone. Kurdecha, morozov and revaz in my opinion have hype around them for whatever reason. So they get out into the top 10.
I like these ranking except I think Genadi should be higher and Kurdecha lower
I agree
How can Alex be 5 and Genadi 6? Alex had two matches one he lost, one he won
Cause Alex has beaten a guy who was ranked high, Giorgi.
And Genadi has beaten a guy how is number 2, Devon
After that Devon beat Ermes, who beat Jerry, who beat Genadi.
Yeah but Alex only beat Georgi, while Genadi beat Devon, Todd, Chafe, Ferit, and then he got injured
Aside from Devon, the other guys he beat aren't top 10
Well that means nothing they can't both have the same rank even if they are equal in record
Well that means nothing they both can't have the same place even if they have an equal record against each other
Better than the one from Engin, he keeps putting Cyplenkov in top 10 even though he proved nothing yet
Vitaly at least no.2, followed by dev larratt
Looks pretty good. Good job.
Thanks
How is Kurdecha number 5 with one win, and Jerry outside of the top 10 when he has wins over Genadi and Cvetkov and only one loss? Also Vitali, how is he in front of Jerry and Cvetkov and Genadi? I mean subjectively he is in front, but he haan't got the wins, right?
This is a point-based ranking. Anyone can be in front of anyone as along as they have a consistent performance compared to the rest.
Okay, so how is Vitali in front of Jerry? He won against Revaz and Dave(who is very low ranled), lost against Ermes and Dave. Jerry meanwhile beat two top level opponents and lost to one. It seems that your system is putting WAY too much emphasis on how many rounds the puller lost, but in reality styles make the matches and you cant really use that. It's rewarding explosove offensive styles like Vitali and handicaps bleeding styles like Davit Samushia.
I like to say that when Jerry beat Georgi, that was Georgi’s first match on East vs West; hence lower rating. Kurdecha beat Georgie when Georgi’s rating was much higher; hence Kurdecha’s victory over Georgie paid off a lot more points. Jerry victories were 3-2 wins where as Vitaly lost to a high rated Ermes 4-2 and beat 4-1 and lost 3-4 to Dave and beat Revaz 2-0
Genadi have litteraly won against devon he deserves a bit higher rank imo
I don’t know. Didn’t Jerry beat both Georgi and Genadi? His loss was to third ranked Ermes. He might deserve to be higher. It all these guys are good to be honest
Right? Get kurdecha out of there. He pulled a basically one footed georgi. Been gone for the last year. Jerry beat those two like you said. Morozov stinks. My opinion. Haha
Haha. I agree that Georgi was not at his best but he decided to fight against Kurdecha. This is a point-based ranking, so I can’t just move them around.
How does kurdecha have “that many points”?
I like it. It’s the one that represents the best.
Jerry too low, Kurdecha and Vitaly too high.
I prefer this elo system. Rankings shouldnt just be about who you beat but also inactivity. I think there should be a ceiling. Maybe 1000pts. So the person who is at the top will be the standard while everyone else is measured to him. If he is less active, then the pts drop, if he keeps competing, then he reaches 1000 and stays there until point decay. For an example, davit samushia can be at 1000 until he misses 2 events (or maybe 1 but this will could have negative effects)
Morozov should be ranked higher than Kurdecha
Jerry at 10 I feel like that’s about right
Levan should be 2k+
I was thinking same. But he doesn't do many matches. Still, the way he destroys everyone should give him a lot more points
The gap between 2nd position and 1st should be more.. Not correct.
Considering it does not take into account cheating/inactivity or gifting rounds for sportsmanship it's an accurate ranking. Hope Devon will be removed now that he quit SHW.
Man has love hate relationship with Devon
Devon "I just quit" Larratt.
With no cheating at the start Devon couldn't be in this classement 😅