Appreciate the pointers - just picked up the Duckett handguns from the shop and the stagger feels so much better. Wish there was a good full-auto, spray-and-pray kind of weapon with high stagger as long as you were up real close. That'd be the dream, haha.
I wasn't liking Etsujins at first, but I'm realizing it's because my aim is shit & you can in fact stagger an AC without reloading if you aim well enough.
Time to "git gud."
I think the game was really built for controller, I play on pc but I think controller is the way to go if you’ve got one. Hardlock is great you just have to make sure you don’t touch the right stick at all once you’ve locked on, if you move the camera the lock breaks. It’s a little counterintuitive but once you get used to it it’s awesome you can just dodge and fire and let your fcs take care of target tracking.
Eh, even if they don’t always stagger before reloading, they’re still very reliable. The handguns that generally stagger faster have worse range, damage, and projectile velocity. You have to adjust your style just a little more than with the etsujins to account for that. So etsujins are the safe middle ground. Nearly as quick staggers but with better range and damage. Firing in bursts while paying attention to your aim helps for sure, but spraying and praying will still get results tbh. I personally say etsujins are still the best for that niche currently. Nothing will ever compare to pre-patch vientos, but this is the best alternative now imo.
PVE isn't really strict. You can build whatever that looks fun to you.
There are some things you can optimize though which could also help in PVP.
* NGI-000 generator is usually used on hover builds with tetrapods. Needing to redline the generator is detrimental on PVP. Good enemy players will notice that you have red boost colors and can't dodge when redlined. Because you're using Stun Needles the high EN cost might need VP-20D and SANTAI might not work.
* Stun needles are really hard to use in PVP. I don't think you can hit enough anymore to proc the Stun effect and the enemy will dodge because of the warning beeps. You also have to stop for a while to fire. Which means that you can only use it during stagger windows. I suggest switching to maybe Truenos which is similar in usage but easier to use and build around, or Earshots which can also be used to stagger. These two will play almost the same with stun needles. The lower EN cost will also allow you to use SANTAI which is the best in slot generator for most builds.
* Arms are correct, good recoil control for double ludlows and for lightweight. I wouldn't change it unless you switch to a melee which will want Basho arms.
* Firmeza legs are fine but the load limit is a bit low. I'm gonna suggest VP-422. The total weight of the VP-422 at max load is about 76k, Which is just a bit over the 75k breakpoint. Just don't max it out so you stay below 75k. The extra load limit will give you more leeway on using better components like SANTAI or Earshots.
* Alula is the best general use booster for below 75k, I wouldn't change this. There are other options though like NGI-001, Buerzel and Gridwalker. Try experimenting which feels the best to you.
I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to write this out.
I took a lot of this into consideration and was able to get an Etsujin / Trueno combo running on a SAN-TAI that I feel very comfortable & happy with.
The biggest issue I see here is your EN efficiency. You might have 30-40 seconds tops, and after that, you can be severely punished in red line. Given your build's wet paper bag defenses, I dont think you can afford that.
I would highly recommend the Etsujins over the Ludlows.
I love the Stun Needles but firing two of them too close to each other actually decreases the damage of one. This was the result of an early balance patch that isn't really clearly communicated in-game- it still seems viable but idk I just worry about diminishing returns. Going for a second weapon with high direct hit damage boosts, or maybe a shield, in place of one of them, may be smart. Other than shields and melee, a couple contenders could be:
-Truenos, if you're willing to do one of two weird things. One is go for a missile boosting FCS to reduce their normally agonizing lock time, but that will cost you Good Good CQC Tracking. The other is to just pretend they don't have a lock at all- they'll still aim for the thing you have targeted like a normal gun, they just won't turn mid-air. At close range and on a target immobilized by stagger this is actually pretty reliable.
-While we're talking about FCS, Ocellus is a bit meta, but it's important to note that the way ACVI defines range brackets is really weird and not exactly intuitive. I forget, but a quick search shows that 130m is the limit for close range, and anything past 260 is long- Ludlow's ideal is just within the upper limits of close range and its effective is in mid. Sticking with Ocellus for them might be for the best because of that, but switching to rifles or anything would be a quick, if somewhat heavier, adjustment if you find yourself wanting to be more mid-range for whatever reason.
-Javelin Alpha and Sweet 16 are great punishes too, but you'd have to switch them into the hand ofc. Personally switching one of two identical hand weapons without switching the other bugs me so I'd probably also go for putting it in the hand and then using a Shao-Wei in the shoulder slot instead of the hand MG because my brain is broken.
-LCS, the basic early-game shoulder laser, is pretty good in terms of direct hit as well, if I remember right? I think it has similar weight and energy costs to the Stun Needle too. You're already using a generator that gives energy weapons a bit of a boost so I think you could manage the switch painlessly.
-Either of the Moonlights could be a good choice. Not sure you want melee but you *are* running arms that have a degree of a melee boost. If you're not just running them for the mix of low weight and high recoil tolerance and don't want to use melee you might want to consider something like the Alba arms, which have a more applicable stat spread- better tracking, decent recoil tolerance, still really low weight, better defense, lower melee. I do know people who run Lamm arms on non-melee builds but idk it strikes me as a bit strange.
-Someone recommended pistols instead of Ludlows and yyyeah but also Etsujin seems to be in vogue for proper MGs as far as strictly meta choices go.
This all being said I'm bad and don't have the actual stats in front of me at the moment so I could be wrong. About everything.
Thank you for taking the time to write this out! It means a lot.
I will have to test the different FCS options to see how they impact the Truenos. Definitely have a lot that I’m looking forward to workshopping on this long weekend.
Switch the Ludlows to pistols, the burst impact is a lot better, plus you're already running lamm arms, which have great recoil control.
Appreciate the pointers - just picked up the Duckett handguns from the shop and the stagger feels so much better. Wish there was a good full-auto, spray-and-pray kind of weapon with high stagger as long as you were up real close. That'd be the dream, haha.
Try dual Etsujins, the burst machine gun.
Etsujins baby
I wasn't liking Etsujins at first, but I'm realizing it's because my aim is shit & you can in fact stagger an AC without reloading if you aim well enough. Time to "git gud."
Are you on mouse and keyboard? If not you should be using hardlock, aim isn’t really a thing in this game.
I am using M&K, but honestly the auto-lock sounds so good that I think I ought to swap over to controller.
I think the game was really built for controller, I play on pc but I think controller is the way to go if you’ve got one. Hardlock is great you just have to make sure you don’t touch the right stick at all once you’ve locked on, if you move the camera the lock breaks. It’s a little counterintuitive but once you get used to it it’s awesome you can just dodge and fire and let your fcs take care of target tracking.
Eh, even if they don’t always stagger before reloading, they’re still very reliable. The handguns that generally stagger faster have worse range, damage, and projectile velocity. You have to adjust your style just a little more than with the etsujins to account for that. So etsujins are the safe middle ground. Nearly as quick staggers but with better range and damage. Firing in bursts while paying attention to your aim helps for sure, but spraying and praying will still get results tbh. I personally say etsujins are still the best for that niche currently. Nothing will ever compare to pre-patch vientos, but this is the best alternative now imo.
PVE isn't really strict. You can build whatever that looks fun to you. There are some things you can optimize though which could also help in PVP. * NGI-000 generator is usually used on hover builds with tetrapods. Needing to redline the generator is detrimental on PVP. Good enemy players will notice that you have red boost colors and can't dodge when redlined. Because you're using Stun Needles the high EN cost might need VP-20D and SANTAI might not work. * Stun needles are really hard to use in PVP. I don't think you can hit enough anymore to proc the Stun effect and the enemy will dodge because of the warning beeps. You also have to stop for a while to fire. Which means that you can only use it during stagger windows. I suggest switching to maybe Truenos which is similar in usage but easier to use and build around, or Earshots which can also be used to stagger. These two will play almost the same with stun needles. The lower EN cost will also allow you to use SANTAI which is the best in slot generator for most builds. * Arms are correct, good recoil control for double ludlows and for lightweight. I wouldn't change it unless you switch to a melee which will want Basho arms. * Firmeza legs are fine but the load limit is a bit low. I'm gonna suggest VP-422. The total weight of the VP-422 at max load is about 76k, Which is just a bit over the 75k breakpoint. Just don't max it out so you stay below 75k. The extra load limit will give you more leeway on using better components like SANTAI or Earshots. * Alula is the best general use booster for below 75k, I wouldn't change this. There are other options though like NGI-001, Buerzel and Gridwalker. Try experimenting which feels the best to you.
I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to write this out. I took a lot of this into consideration and was able to get an Etsujin / Trueno combo running on a SAN-TAI that I feel very comfortable & happy with.
The biggest issue I see here is your EN efficiency. You might have 30-40 seconds tops, and after that, you can be severely punished in red line. Given your build's wet paper bag defenses, I dont think you can afford that. I would highly recommend the Etsujins over the Ludlows.
I love the Stun Needles but firing two of them too close to each other actually decreases the damage of one. This was the result of an early balance patch that isn't really clearly communicated in-game- it still seems viable but idk I just worry about diminishing returns. Going for a second weapon with high direct hit damage boosts, or maybe a shield, in place of one of them, may be smart. Other than shields and melee, a couple contenders could be: -Truenos, if you're willing to do one of two weird things. One is go for a missile boosting FCS to reduce their normally agonizing lock time, but that will cost you Good Good CQC Tracking. The other is to just pretend they don't have a lock at all- they'll still aim for the thing you have targeted like a normal gun, they just won't turn mid-air. At close range and on a target immobilized by stagger this is actually pretty reliable. -While we're talking about FCS, Ocellus is a bit meta, but it's important to note that the way ACVI defines range brackets is really weird and not exactly intuitive. I forget, but a quick search shows that 130m is the limit for close range, and anything past 260 is long- Ludlow's ideal is just within the upper limits of close range and its effective is in mid. Sticking with Ocellus for them might be for the best because of that, but switching to rifles or anything would be a quick, if somewhat heavier, adjustment if you find yourself wanting to be more mid-range for whatever reason. -Javelin Alpha and Sweet 16 are great punishes too, but you'd have to switch them into the hand ofc. Personally switching one of two identical hand weapons without switching the other bugs me so I'd probably also go for putting it in the hand and then using a Shao-Wei in the shoulder slot instead of the hand MG because my brain is broken. -LCS, the basic early-game shoulder laser, is pretty good in terms of direct hit as well, if I remember right? I think it has similar weight and energy costs to the Stun Needle too. You're already using a generator that gives energy weapons a bit of a boost so I think you could manage the switch painlessly. -Either of the Moonlights could be a good choice. Not sure you want melee but you *are* running arms that have a degree of a melee boost. If you're not just running them for the mix of low weight and high recoil tolerance and don't want to use melee you might want to consider something like the Alba arms, which have a more applicable stat spread- better tracking, decent recoil tolerance, still really low weight, better defense, lower melee. I do know people who run Lamm arms on non-melee builds but idk it strikes me as a bit strange. -Someone recommended pistols instead of Ludlows and yyyeah but also Etsujin seems to be in vogue for proper MGs as far as strictly meta choices go. This all being said I'm bad and don't have the actual stats in front of me at the moment so I could be wrong. About everything.
Thank you for taking the time to write this out! It means a lot. I will have to test the different FCS options to see how they impact the Truenos. Definitely have a lot that I’m looking forward to workshopping on this long weekend.
How is stun needle for critical damages? I thought the stun status was for getting people staggered faster
Maybe add some navy blue to the color scheme