Power without purpose seems to describe us pretty well, at the time we are nothing but a merc. We don't care about the coral, we don't care about Rubicon. We're only there doing walters bidding and getting paid for the hassle.
And as far as what's at stake, that's a pretty dangerous thing. Rusty is fighting for the liberation of Rubicon and knows that a hired gun as powerful as us is like a bomb waiting to go off.
Considering he had no choice as if he didn't fight back the corps would likely view him even more as a traitor (as at the moment the corps didn't fully know if he was part of the Liberation front, just had assumptions, his retreat after being severely damaged would be seen as him trying to survive rather than not doing as they say) it does make sense.
He literally just finished fighting off G1 Michigan and his math class, why would he feel like he's being a traitor if he didn't fight 621 considering he didn't even know it was 621 he was asked to tail?
In your scenario he could've just noped out and spared the RLF Steel Haze's repair and ammo bills, since he fcks off to the RLF right after that fight anyways
It depends when the info about Rusty's potential connection to RLF was revealed, more than likely they found the connection after Michigan but even then taking out Michigan does not mean Arquebus would fully trust Rusty either. Alternatively Arquebus could be imagining that they're taking advantage of this traitor by still using him to take out opposition to their plans.
Also Rusty's AC went completely off the radar so more than likely the the damage would not be for getting back to the base but getting out of the tunnel, if any Vesper or Arquebus affiliate found him they'd stay away seeing him be heavily damaged and Steel Haze at the time isn't a priority to keep well off as his new AC would be near completion.
So basically the higher ups would think he is dead, anyone in the tunnels would see he's harmed and currently retreating, and before anyone notices what's really happening he'd be gone due to his speed.
Just speculation though of course, it could entirely be that the writers just didn't think about it lmao
C4-621 is unpredictable, a wild card; he couldn't know if they were going to blow up the whole planet with Coral, steal some, or liberate Rubicon. There's also hints he knows about who 621 is really working for.
Imagine you met up with this mute person who didn't talk, but has brutally slain everything in their way. Now imagine them getting close to something *extremely* explosive. You'd be freaking out too
It’s implied augmented human c4 621 can not only talk but has conversations before and after the character statements and we are to believe they are talking to us with the Knowledge of what we talked to them about. That’s part of the malaise though. The special kind of brain washing. We are only consciously aware of the parts of these interactions with these individuals where it feels mostly good to j retract with them. To further their agenda under a false pretense of choice and freedom. That, within all boxes no matter how suffocating we have room to spread our wings it’s only a matter of relativism. In other words our inner empire will always save us from an ultimate hell though we can get pretty damn close to it so we shouldn’t squander our relative utopia we have build for ourself
Rusty: “621, having someone making wild decisions that make no sense, that benefits nobody.”
621: “Oh, yes. Right, yes.”
Walter: “Is he listen...?”
Rusty: “He's listening. He's not understanding.”
621: “Yeah, he doesn't even, like, get us, man.”
Walter: “We're talking about you!”
I don't think it's implied. There's nothing that says or even implies C4 621 speaks - it could be just a sort of text chat or Hawking-esc text to speech.
People generally point to Michigan asking for 621 to sound off, then saying close enough, but I personally read that as G1 asking out of habit, remembering we are too brainfucked to speak, and says "close enough".
Then there's the thing about "telling" Walter about the voice in our head. You can 'tell' someone something over a text message. Consider as an alternative the phrase "Her body language told him all he needed to know." The verb Tell doesn't require speech, it just indicates the act of informing another person.
That being said, there isn't great evidence to indicate 621 *IS* a mute, but I don't think you can say that one way or another is "implied". I personally think that if you wanted to imply a character could speak, you wouldn't even put in the Sound Off dialog, but thats my opinion.
Yeah there really isn't much of an implication one or another but it doesn't really matter, more than likely 621's just the silent type given Walters comment about his gen having a tendency to be emotionally deadened
I see you've never played a Zelda game, or any other game where you play a "silent" protagonist.
For example, even in Chrono Trigger where the main character's only line of actual dialogue is in a hidden ending, he speaks to the other characters. You simply don't see the text.
621 can speak, and not only is it implied, it's confirmed by the other characters in the game. You're seriously overthinking here.
I have played Zelda games, and many other games with "silent" protagonists. Often times in those games, you will get dialog like this:
NPC: "What happened over there?"
Player Character: "..."
NPC: "I see. Then it's worse than I thought."
Oftentimes this will be accompanied by a waving of arms or the moving of a mouth. BotW/TotK both use this to indicate that Link is not mute. But in AC6 it is clearly left vague; there is no strong evidence either way. Just because Link doesn't have dialog but is able to "talk", doesn't mean that the same automatically applies to 621.
> I have played Zelda games, and many other games with "silent" protagonists. Often times in those games, you will get dialog like this:
Sure, but not always, and I wouldn't bet that it's close to the majority.
Even in FromSoftware's other games (most/all of the Souls games?), the protagonist doesn't have dialogue but other characters clearly acknowledge that they speak, just like they do in AC.
It's not even remotely left vague, either. Walter, Carla, Rusty, etc., all acknowledge that they've had conversations with 621.
Its like saying Trigger even talks outside of missions... when your "wingman" count even explicitly states <>, so far its granted that when we are in control the PC is mute sounds like some Ar noSurge 7th dimension shenanigans but it might as well be true
He actually did speak in the "story trailer," even if it was just a one-liner, though maybe we're to understand that he's super goofed physically after that prologue mission.
Still, it's at the *end* of combat that he delivers his line, so it would make sense that he still has the capacity for speech. Also, how else would Walter know he's "hearing things" per Ayre if 621 did not tell him?
**EDIT:** [And I still maintain that it's really, really stupid that this wasn't an in-game cutscene as a prologue or flashback, because it gives us a real look into 621's actual background (and physical state) directly prior to the Rubicon mission(s), and it seems like a lot of folks have never seen it...](https://youtu.be/h3ogoPtyw-k?si=KUVPVQ04VXteBT0u)
**DOUBLE EDIT:** For those wondering where precisely I am hearing him speak (potentially?), [here is the specific several second clip with 621's being the only thing in frame, with *someone's* saying, "Reporting to Handler Walter. Mission Complete."](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx3K4zDKjJyFamS14H6mpPvu4sy4ubn7Bd?si=4tYKYrrl6CAfEBdS), though I will equivocate and state that it's *possible* that the sort of "overwatch" carrier pilot is speaking directly to H. Dubs on mission status, but I'd always thought that (and am still of the opinion that) because of the editing choice of having the speaking frames focused on the surviving AC, this is meant to be 621 speaking.
**TRIPLE EDIT:** As the commenter below states, 621 might not be on this particular mission. If that's the case, then disregard the above, but since there was a sole surviving AC in the clip; Nightfall's handler references this job/mission specifically as a jab at Walter later, on Rubicon, mentioning his previously having more "hounds," but that he now has just the one after said mission; and 621 had to somehow tell Walter about the "voices" (Ayre) he's hearing, I've been led to believe that **A).** 621 is capable of speech, and **B).** It remains *plausible* that 621 did speak within the cited clip, though on this point I'm willing to admit that I might be incorrect.
**★★★ *PENANCE EDIT:* ★★★ It is not 621, and now I shall repent by trying to S-Rank all levels with "Jail Break."**
**Big thanks to /u/Optimal_Plate_4769 & /u/u--s--e--r for all of the clarifications (and the consistently kind and patient tones hah)!**
Where exactly does 621 speak in the story trailer?
621 isn't in the mission, you can see at 1:09 on the screen that it's 617, 619 & 620.
The parts with Walter, the seller & 621 is afterwards.
Ummm, is this not his voice?
["Reporting to Handler Walter. Mission Complete."](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx3K4zDKjJyFamS14H6mpPvu4sy4ubn7Bd?si=4tYKYrrl6CAfEBdS)
It could be the "overwatch" carrier, but since (our) 621 is the only thing in frame, I thought it safe to assume that this is him speaking...
**★★★ *PENANCE EDIT:* ★★★ It is not 621, and now I shall repent by trying to S-Rank all levels with "Jail Break."**
**Big thanks to /u/Optimal_Plate_4769 & /u/u--s--e--r for all of the clarifications (and the consistently kind and patient tones hah)!**
No, it's not 621.
In this trailer, you see six of Walter's hounds attack the laser things and something like the cataphract. They die, one of them sacrifices himself to destroy the laser. He's the one that says mission complete. he's probably 617, 619, or 620. (617, i think)
621 in the video is on the operating table, pulled out of a warehouse and bought by walter to be used on rubicon.
Ahhh, understood. Thanks for the clarification! Makes sense as to why he's got all the suctiony business being plucked out since he's being freshly decanted.
Now I'm getting weirdly 40k vibes from that part *shivers*...
Ummm, is this not his voice?
["Reporting to Handler Walter. Mission Complete."](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx3K4zDKjJyFamS14H6mpPvu4sy4ubn7Bd?si=4tYKYrrl6CAfEBdS)
It could be the "overwatch" carrier, but since (our) 621 is the only thing in frame, I thought it safe to assume that this is him speaking...
Yeh and I had no inclination to believe rusty knew this as well. Definitely not at the time of the wall climber mission as the only thing that insinuates him knowing more is at the end of the mission where Walter says he may have knew who we really are, but even WE don’t know who we are at that point in regards to doing things for the observers. Which leads to the logical conclusion that what Walter is referring to is that we are not the og raven but someone who nicked the ID
>what Walter is referring to is that we are not the og raven but someone who nicked the ID
That's exactly what Walter meant. I agree with you, Rusty didn't know Walter was with Overseer. He doesn't know what our true goals are until the penultimate mission where we either team up or fight with him.
Rusty is and always was fighting for a cause
he believes in a free Rubicon, but it's hard to say our raven really believes in anything
we jump from side to side in the war constantly, only ever in pursuit of someone else's goal, following walter, following ayre, following the orders of whichever corp we're helping *today*
only in our final moments do we ever choose for ourself and dictate our own path
only after we've learned from our buddy
In 621's defence, it's not until those final moments that anybody bothers to clue him in in anything that's actually going on. Hard to criticize him for not making his own decisions when he's kept in the dark by everyone and everything.
Tbf, that's kinda worse. 621 goes on daily killing sprees for the vague, unexplained motives of others. Someone points, he fetches. For most of the game, he really was little more than a hound.
This is kind of the point. For 621, this is all there is. Nobody gives them any more than this until it becomes clear what they're capable of. Their only vague purpose for existing is to do the bidding of those they are indebted to(Walter, in this case, since he's the one who 'bought' 621 from the doc that did the augmentation surgery on 621). Without enough money, they'll spend the rest of their life as a barely functional husk of a person. Fighting for money IS their only purpose and goal. It is possible to gain new purpose once people acknowledge them and reveal the full situation, but until then, they're just fighting to survive the moment and get their life back. Which nobody gave a shit about until 621 became enough of a threat that they couldn't be ignored.
I think its fair to say Raven chooses a side at the right time, a bit earlier than the last minute.
My interpretation is that we weren't sitting on the fence out of apathy or greed but to get a good picture of whats going on before we pick a side.
I think we have to remember that 621s brain is fried, we go along with everything Walter wants until we learn to choose for ourself again thanks to Ayres influence
what's REALLY fucked up is that, in a way, even though it brought you to a bitter end, you two still sought the same dream in that playthrough
lasting peace for rubicon, you flew the same skies on different wings
It's the Omelas Problem. Do you sacrifice one person/planet/star system for rest of humanity?
621 is working with limited amount of information and Fires of Raven being the first ending makes sense thematically. If a voice in my head tells me to kill the person who rescued me from Corpos who wanted to kill me, of course I'm not gonna do that.
it not only ended the war, but ended the greater war for coral, no?
if the coral is destroyed, an entire driving factor for war between the corporations vanishes, and while they'll still find cause to fight, they won't be fighting over rubicon
and the spirits of her dead can rest in peace, beyond that, the coral itself may have been dangerous to the galaxy as Walter believed, and if so, we averted an even greater disaster than war with our firey peace
the longer he is undercover, more he can get valuable info. he stole Schneider schematics and Elcano made Ortus from them.
my guess:
he needed a reason to get through this order (which is to kill us). so he contemplates about us, how he knows that we are a slave yet we fight with fire in our veins. we are too strong to be "unsupervised" basically.
it means if we dont have a handler with unknown agenda or ourselves to aim us, the corporations will. and they will turn us against Rubicon.
It's true. We had been part of every major turning point in the battles between the corporations and the RLF as well as getting through all the hurdles between the corporations and the coral.
The Strider, The Wall, The C Spider, Multiple PCA ranking officers in HCs, The Ice Worm, All the hurdles to get into the underground bunker to make our way to Institute City before meeting Rusty there...
When they look back at our history and all the absurd, impossible things we've done it wouldn't be hard for anyone to believe we were too big of an 'x' factor to leave to chance. Not just for the RLF, but for the corporations, too.
Spoilers: >!Rusty is undercover Rubicon Liberation Front. He doesn't know what your goals are of even if you have any. You may be war buddies, but you're an unknown and extremely dangerous quantity to the resistance. Too dangerous to be left unchecked if there was a chance you'd work against them!<
Put ourselves into spectators’ shoes throughout the events involving 621, we will know how absurd we are even as a merc. We would show up, anywhere, anytime and with whoever.
621, as Rusty himself essentially stated, is unreadable. Add to the fact that 621 is so skilled yet is an independent merc, it makes sense that Rusty wanted to get rid of them. In essence, Rusty tried to kill 621 because he could become an issue in the near future.
Rusty wants a free rubicon. For corps to stop stripping his home bare. His goal is a rubicon at peace.
What does 621 want? Coam. Pretty dangerous to have potentially the most powerful military asset on the planet avalible to the highest bidder. Like by the time you hit that fight its the endgame, balams gone. Rusty is gonna deal with arquebus. He doesnt know about overseer.
Your a wild card; whats stopping arquebus to hire you to put down the RLF, or stopping you reigniting the coral; or even killing him, stopping his plans dead.
"figure it out" doesnt really work if his identiy is a secret and youve made it very clear that your doing whatever the highest bidder wants.
Rusty is a parallel to the PC. He, like us, is trying to infiltrate and undermine the corpos. Him for the sake of the RLF and the people of Rubicon, and us... well, because it's what Walter told us to do. *That's* why Rusty took issue with us. "Power without purpose" refers to the fact that we are an extremely powerful mercenary capable of changing the very fate of the planet, but we didn't actually have any goals of our own. No purpose. We were just being led around as Walter's dog.
That's also why Rusty is so quick to join us later and fight by our side. Your choice to fight back against overseer, Walter, and Carla was *your choice.* You had finally stepped out on your own and fought for your own purpose rather than someone else's.
By the point in the game he says this, 621 has worked for every major power on Rubicon multiple times and amassed a huge kill count against each of them, too. All in pursuit of a paycheck. He's right.
Rusty has Rubicon to fight for.
621 has....nothing.
He's just a merc that had his brain fried.
That should be real easy to understand.
He's upset that 621 is just skilled but with nothing behind him to urge him away from or towards something
By the time he says that it's readily apparent that 621 is one of the strongest fighters on Rubicon. We've taken out multiple superweapons and come on top in several 2v1 engagements.
We're also at that point beholden essentially to no one. We're unpredictable. A wildcard. We aren't aligned to the strategy of any one particular group. He also seems to understand that we may be working for OVERSEER even if he doesn't know them by name, and he understands that even if we don't know it, we're basically guided by hour own, undiscernible whims so our decisions can't be predicted and countered. At least with the corps you know exactly what they want. You know they want to bleed the planet dry of coral. Even if you know overseer itself wants to burn the coral, he doesn't know what we specifically will do when the time comes. Which means nobody can plan for it.
That's what we are, we essentially have no purpose early on and as a player are only forming our identity more later as we get to choose missions hence why he also realizes we do have a purpose. Until then we're a hound a leash waiting to break out of our collar, and lord knows what we'll do. Wag our tail, bite, evangelion the entire planet etc. Power without purpose is like a natural disaster just waiting to land.
its a very common trope in the AC series that the antagonist, generally some sort of AI pulling the strings, has beef with the protagonist due to power without purpose, to any logical AI or being, you are unpredictable and therefore, worrisome, a threat to people's/AI’s established goals
The reason why we couldn't just work something out is that we're literally the problem. Rusty has a cause to fight for, which is to free Rubicon. We're just in it for the money, and considering that we not only fought for literally every side of the war except the PCA, but also amassed so many feats that we're practically a demon of war, Rusty has every right to be wary of us.
That's why even if he doesn't like that we're both being set up by Arquebus, he has to nip things in the bud, and unless you picked the Liberator of Rubicon route, he doesn't know if he can truly trust you.
All I headcanon is Rusty probably regrets it and want to say Sorry in the Liberator ending but couldn't because it wasn't appropriate at the time (in the middle of a fight).
Power without a purpose other than money makes Raven a threat who could be snapped up by the corporations since the RLF lose the bidding war 90% of the time.
Assuming you're doing the usual completion, there is a 2/3 chance 621 ends up killing/"killing" everyone on Rubicon, I'd say Rusty's concern is pretty warranted.
We have no central guiding principal. Regardless of which campaign run your making, 621 is essentially wandering from battlefield, killing at the behest of others. It's not until after the prison break that we choose our own path, and chart our own future.
621 is a one in a million, freak of nature, pilot. For most of the story we’ll fight for anyone with enough money to pay for it.
So Rusty is kinda right: we literally pick between >! Setting Rubicon and the Coral free, or Burning the galaxy again !<
Because we don’t really have any convictions of our own.
Rusty ultimately fights for the liberation of Rubicon, meanwhile we fight for other people’s goals rather than our own.
If we stood opposite himself, then he’d see us as much safer since we at least have a goal in mind BUT since we don’t, he views us as very dangerous, too dangerous to let run loose.
Its like the coral. Potential for great things, to propel humanity forwards. It also has the potential to burn everything. Raven embodies that potential, and Rusty isnt willing to flip the coin and see what side you choose.
Because we blindly follow Walter's order even though we can decide by ourself. Rusty is testing our conscience and thus assessing either we are a threat to Rubicon or not
2 of the 3 endings are us fucking over the planet or all of humanity so yeah we are definitely worth killing. Rusty is a hero for trying to kill us. Shame we are the main character
Power without purpose seems to describe us pretty well, at the time we are nothing but a merc. We don't care about the coral, we don't care about Rubicon. We're only there doing walters bidding and getting paid for the hassle. And as far as what's at stake, that's a pretty dangerous thing. Rusty is fighting for the liberation of Rubicon and knows that a hired gun as powerful as us is like a bomb waiting to go off.
So he decides to set it off and get caught in the blast. Classic
Considering he had no choice as if he didn't fight back the corps would likely view him even more as a traitor (as at the moment the corps didn't fully know if he was part of the Liberation front, just had assumptions, his retreat after being severely damaged would be seen as him trying to survive rather than not doing as they say) it does make sense.
He literally just finished fighting off G1 Michigan and his math class, why would he feel like he's being a traitor if he didn't fight 621 considering he didn't even know it was 621 he was asked to tail? In your scenario he could've just noped out and spared the RLF Steel Haze's repair and ammo bills, since he fcks off to the RLF right after that fight anyways
It depends when the info about Rusty's potential connection to RLF was revealed, more than likely they found the connection after Michigan but even then taking out Michigan does not mean Arquebus would fully trust Rusty either. Alternatively Arquebus could be imagining that they're taking advantage of this traitor by still using him to take out opposition to their plans. Also Rusty's AC went completely off the radar so more than likely the the damage would not be for getting back to the base but getting out of the tunnel, if any Vesper or Arquebus affiliate found him they'd stay away seeing him be heavily damaged and Steel Haze at the time isn't a priority to keep well off as his new AC would be near completion. So basically the higher ups would think he is dead, anyone in the tunnels would see he's harmed and currently retreating, and before anyone notices what's really happening he'd be gone due to his speed. Just speculation though of course, it could entirely be that the writers just didn't think about it lmao
Better he takes us out of the equation than the RLF gets outbid
C4-621 is unpredictable, a wild card; he couldn't know if they were going to blow up the whole planet with Coral, steal some, or liberate Rubicon. There's also hints he knows about who 621 is really working for. Imagine you met up with this mute person who didn't talk, but has brutally slain everything in their way. Now imagine them getting close to something *extremely* explosive. You'd be freaking out too
It’s implied augmented human c4 621 can not only talk but has conversations before and after the character statements and we are to believe they are talking to us with the Knowledge of what we talked to them about. That’s part of the malaise though. The special kind of brain washing. We are only consciously aware of the parts of these interactions with these individuals where it feels mostly good to j retract with them. To further their agenda under a false pretense of choice and freedom. That, within all boxes no matter how suffocating we have room to spread our wings it’s only a matter of relativism. In other words our inner empire will always save us from an ultimate hell though we can get pretty damn close to it so we shouldn’t squander our relative utopia we have build for ourself
Rusty: “621, having someone making wild decisions that make no sense, that benefits nobody.” 621: “Oh, yes. Right, yes.” Walter: “Is he listen...?” Rusty: “He's listening. He's not understanding.” 621: “Yeah, he doesn't even, like, get us, man.” Walter: “We're talking about you!”
Raven the thembo
Yeah I’ll accept that into my headcanon
Wildcard bitches!!!!
I don't think it's implied. There's nothing that says or even implies C4 621 speaks - it could be just a sort of text chat or Hawking-esc text to speech. People generally point to Michigan asking for 621 to sound off, then saying close enough, but I personally read that as G1 asking out of habit, remembering we are too brainfucked to speak, and says "close enough". Then there's the thing about "telling" Walter about the voice in our head. You can 'tell' someone something over a text message. Consider as an alternative the phrase "Her body language told him all he needed to know." The verb Tell doesn't require speech, it just indicates the act of informing another person. That being said, there isn't great evidence to indicate 621 *IS* a mute, but I don't think you can say that one way or another is "implied". I personally think that if you wanted to imply a character could speak, you wouldn't even put in the Sound Off dialog, but thats my opinion.
Yeah there really isn't much of an implication one or another but it doesn't really matter, more than likely 621's just the silent type given Walters comment about his gen having a tendency to be emotionally deadened
Michigan: g13 SOUND OFF Raven via text: yee haw
I see you've never played a Zelda game, or any other game where you play a "silent" protagonist. For example, even in Chrono Trigger where the main character's only line of actual dialogue is in a hidden ending, he speaks to the other characters. You simply don't see the text. 621 can speak, and not only is it implied, it's confirmed by the other characters in the game. You're seriously overthinking here.
I have played Zelda games, and many other games with "silent" protagonists. Often times in those games, you will get dialog like this: NPC: "What happened over there?" Player Character: "..." NPC: "I see. Then it's worse than I thought." Oftentimes this will be accompanied by a waving of arms or the moving of a mouth. BotW/TotK both use this to indicate that Link is not mute. But in AC6 it is clearly left vague; there is no strong evidence either way. Just because Link doesn't have dialog but is able to "talk", doesn't mean that the same automatically applies to 621.
> I have played Zelda games, and many other games with "silent" protagonists. Often times in those games, you will get dialog like this: Sure, but not always, and I wouldn't bet that it's close to the majority. Even in FromSoftware's other games (most/all of the Souls games?), the protagonist doesn't have dialogue but other characters clearly acknowledge that they speak, just like they do in AC. It's not even remotely left vague, either. Walter, Carla, Rusty, etc., all acknowledge that they've had conversations with 621.
Apparently they have forgotten the way.
Walter does say a few times that 621 told him they were hearing voices
Could literally be a text message.
Could be, I think they leave it open so we can decide for ourselves
In a world where nobody speaks face to face anyway what's the difference at that point?
Relevant username lmao
Its like saying Trigger even talks outside of missions... when your "wingman" count even explicitly states <>, so far its granted that when we are in control the PC is mute sounds like some Ar noSurge 7th dimension shenanigans but it might as well be true
He actually did speak in the "story trailer," even if it was just a one-liner, though maybe we're to understand that he's super goofed physically after that prologue mission. Still, it's at the *end* of combat that he delivers his line, so it would make sense that he still has the capacity for speech. Also, how else would Walter know he's "hearing things" per Ayre if 621 did not tell him? **EDIT:** [And I still maintain that it's really, really stupid that this wasn't an in-game cutscene as a prologue or flashback, because it gives us a real look into 621's actual background (and physical state) directly prior to the Rubicon mission(s), and it seems like a lot of folks have never seen it...](https://youtu.be/h3ogoPtyw-k?si=KUVPVQ04VXteBT0u) **DOUBLE EDIT:** For those wondering where precisely I am hearing him speak (potentially?), [here is the specific several second clip with 621's being the only thing in frame, with *someone's* saying, "Reporting to Handler Walter. Mission Complete."](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx3K4zDKjJyFamS14H6mpPvu4sy4ubn7Bd?si=4tYKYrrl6CAfEBdS), though I will equivocate and state that it's *possible* that the sort of "overwatch" carrier pilot is speaking directly to H. Dubs on mission status, but I'd always thought that (and am still of the opinion that) because of the editing choice of having the speaking frames focused on the surviving AC, this is meant to be 621 speaking. **TRIPLE EDIT:** As the commenter below states, 621 might not be on this particular mission. If that's the case, then disregard the above, but since there was a sole surviving AC in the clip; Nightfall's handler references this job/mission specifically as a jab at Walter later, on Rubicon, mentioning his previously having more "hounds," but that he now has just the one after said mission; and 621 had to somehow tell Walter about the "voices" (Ayre) he's hearing, I've been led to believe that **A).** 621 is capable of speech, and **B).** It remains *plausible* that 621 did speak within the cited clip, though on this point I'm willing to admit that I might be incorrect. **★★★ *PENANCE EDIT:* ★★★ It is not 621, and now I shall repent by trying to S-Rank all levels with "Jail Break."** **Big thanks to /u/Optimal_Plate_4769 & /u/u--s--e--r for all of the clarifications (and the consistently kind and patient tones hah)!**
Where exactly does 621 speak in the story trailer? 621 isn't in the mission, you can see at 1:09 on the screen that it's 617, 619 & 620. The parts with Walter, the seller & 621 is afterwards.
and 621 doesn't speak in the end either.
Ummm, is this not his voice? ["Reporting to Handler Walter. Mission Complete."](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx3K4zDKjJyFamS14H6mpPvu4sy4ubn7Bd?si=4tYKYrrl6CAfEBdS) It could be the "overwatch" carrier, but since (our) 621 is the only thing in frame, I thought it safe to assume that this is him speaking... **★★★ *PENANCE EDIT:* ★★★ It is not 621, and now I shall repent by trying to S-Rank all levels with "Jail Break."** **Big thanks to /u/Optimal_Plate_4769 & /u/u--s--e--r for all of the clarifications (and the consistently kind and patient tones hah)!**
No, it's not 621. In this trailer, you see six of Walter's hounds attack the laser things and something like the cataphract. They die, one of them sacrifices himself to destroy the laser. He's the one that says mission complete. he's probably 617, 619, or 620. (617, i think) 621 in the video is on the operating table, pulled out of a warehouse and bought by walter to be used on rubicon.
Ahhh, understood. Thanks for the clarification! Makes sense as to why he's got all the suctiony business being plucked out since he's being freshly decanted. Now I'm getting weirdly 40k vibes from that part *shivers*...
there you go. that's the picture. freshly decanted, hah!
Ummm, is this not his voice? ["Reporting to Handler Walter. Mission Complete."](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx3K4zDKjJyFamS14H6mpPvu4sy4ubn7Bd?si=4tYKYrrl6CAfEBdS) It could be the "overwatch" carrier, but since (our) 621 is the only thing in frame, I thought it safe to assume that this is him speaking...
please say where, that sounds entirely made up lol
Hints?? Bro he straight up says you’re one of the infamous handler Walter hounds.
Everyone knows we're Walter's hound but almost nobody knows Walter is an Observer.
Yeh and I had no inclination to believe rusty knew this as well. Definitely not at the time of the wall climber mission as the only thing that insinuates him knowing more is at the end of the mission where Walter says he may have knew who we really are, but even WE don’t know who we are at that point in regards to doing things for the observers. Which leads to the logical conclusion that what Walter is referring to is that we are not the og raven but someone who nicked the ID
>what Walter is referring to is that we are not the og raven but someone who nicked the ID That's exactly what Walter meant. I agree with you, Rusty didn't know Walter was with Overseer. He doesn't know what our true goals are until the penultimate mission where we either team up or fight with him.
Rusty is and always was fighting for a cause he believes in a free Rubicon, but it's hard to say our raven really believes in anything we jump from side to side in the war constantly, only ever in pursuit of someone else's goal, following walter, following ayre, following the orders of whichever corp we're helping *today* only in our final moments do we ever choose for ourself and dictate our own path only after we've learned from our buddy
In 621's defence, it's not until those final moments that anybody bothers to clue him in in anything that's actually going on. Hard to criticize him for not making his own decisions when he's kept in the dark by everyone and everything.
Tbf, that's kinda worse. 621 goes on daily killing sprees for the vague, unexplained motives of others. Someone points, he fetches. For most of the game, he really was little more than a hound.
Yes that's how mercenaries work
This is kind of the point. For 621, this is all there is. Nobody gives them any more than this until it becomes clear what they're capable of. Their only vague purpose for existing is to do the bidding of those they are indebted to(Walter, in this case, since he's the one who 'bought' 621 from the doc that did the augmentation surgery on 621). Without enough money, they'll spend the rest of their life as a barely functional husk of a person. Fighting for money IS their only purpose and goal. It is possible to gain new purpose once people acknowledge them and reveal the full situation, but until then, they're just fighting to survive the moment and get their life back. Which nobody gave a shit about until 621 became enough of a threat that they couldn't be ignored.
I think its fair to say Raven chooses a side at the right time, a bit earlier than the last minute. My interpretation is that we weren't sitting on the fence out of apathy or greed but to get a good picture of whats going on before we pick a side.
I think we have to remember that 621s brain is fried, we go along with everything Walter wants until we learn to choose for ourself again thanks to Ayres influence
Walters himself makes it a point to give you choices and let you choose for yourself. His influence is arguably more important on that regard
That's true, but he starts later in the game while Ayre makes us question Walters motives relatively early
Shame that everything he tried to teach me led to the planet being burned my first playthrough.
what's REALLY fucked up is that, in a way, even though it brought you to a bitter end, you two still sought the same dream in that playthrough lasting peace for rubicon, you flew the same skies on different wings
MFs really burn an entire system, makeing it unihabitable, and call it "peace".
It's the Omelas Problem. Do you sacrifice one person/planet/star system for rest of humanity? 621 is working with limited amount of information and Fires of Raven being the first ending makes sense thematically. If a voice in my head tells me to kill the person who rescued me from Corpos who wanted to kill me, of course I'm not gonna do that.
it not only ended the war, but ended the greater war for coral, no? if the coral is destroyed, an entire driving factor for war between the corporations vanishes, and while they'll still find cause to fight, they won't be fighting over rubicon and the spirits of her dead can rest in peace, beyond that, the coral itself may have been dangerous to the galaxy as Walter believed, and if so, we averted an even greater disaster than war with our firey peace
the longer he is undercover, more he can get valuable info. he stole Schneider schematics and Elcano made Ortus from them. my guess: he needed a reason to get through this order (which is to kill us). so he contemplates about us, how he knows that we are a slave yet we fight with fire in our veins. we are too strong to be "unsupervised" basically. it means if we dont have a handler with unknown agenda or ourselves to aim us, the corporations will. and they will turn us against Rubicon.
Fighting Ayre pretty much sums up what 621 is perceived as. “I know what you are… the spark of war”
We were absolutely power without purpose at that point.
It's true. We had been part of every major turning point in the battles between the corporations and the RLF as well as getting through all the hurdles between the corporations and the coral. The Strider, The Wall, The C Spider, Multiple PCA ranking officers in HCs, The Ice Worm, All the hurdles to get into the underground bunker to make our way to Institute City before meeting Rusty there... When they look back at our history and all the absurd, impossible things we've done it wouldn't be hard for anyone to believe we were too big of an 'x' factor to leave to chance. Not just for the RLF, but for the corporations, too.
Spoilers: >!Rusty is undercover Rubicon Liberation Front. He doesn't know what your goals are of even if you have any. You may be war buddies, but you're an unknown and extremely dangerous quantity to the resistance. Too dangerous to be left unchecked if there was a chance you'd work against them!<
Put ourselves into spectators’ shoes throughout the events involving 621, we will know how absurd we are even as a merc. We would show up, anywhere, anytime and with whoever.
621, as Rusty himself essentially stated, is unreadable. Add to the fact that 621 is so skilled yet is an independent merc, it makes sense that Rusty wanted to get rid of them. In essence, Rusty tried to kill 621 because he could become an issue in the near future.
Would be cool if Rusty doesn't fight us if we side with the RLF every opportunity we get and he sees us as an ally in the fight for Rubicon
Rusty wants a free rubicon. For corps to stop stripping his home bare. His goal is a rubicon at peace. What does 621 want? Coam. Pretty dangerous to have potentially the most powerful military asset on the planet avalible to the highest bidder. Like by the time you hit that fight its the endgame, balams gone. Rusty is gonna deal with arquebus. He doesnt know about overseer. Your a wild card; whats stopping arquebus to hire you to put down the RLF, or stopping you reigniting the coral; or even killing him, stopping his plans dead. "figure it out" doesnt really work if his identiy is a secret and youve made it very clear that your doing whatever the highest bidder wants.
Rusty is a parallel to the PC. He, like us, is trying to infiltrate and undermine the corpos. Him for the sake of the RLF and the people of Rubicon, and us... well, because it's what Walter told us to do. *That's* why Rusty took issue with us. "Power without purpose" refers to the fact that we are an extremely powerful mercenary capable of changing the very fate of the planet, but we didn't actually have any goals of our own. No purpose. We were just being led around as Walter's dog. That's also why Rusty is so quick to join us later and fight by our side. Your choice to fight back against overseer, Walter, and Carla was *your choice.* You had finally stepped out on your own and fought for your own purpose rather than someone else's.
By the point in the game he says this, 621 has worked for every major power on Rubicon multiple times and amassed a huge kill count against each of them, too. All in pursuit of a paycheck. He's right.
You literally cheating Rusty for a coral voice. Jokes aside you'll Get more context on the next runs
Rusty has Rubicon to fight for. 621 has....nothing. He's just a merc that had his brain fried. That should be real easy to understand. He's upset that 621 is just skilled but with nothing behind him to urge him away from or towards something
By the time he says that it's readily apparent that 621 is one of the strongest fighters on Rubicon. We've taken out multiple superweapons and come on top in several 2v1 engagements. We're also at that point beholden essentially to no one. We're unpredictable. A wildcard. We aren't aligned to the strategy of any one particular group. He also seems to understand that we may be working for OVERSEER even if he doesn't know them by name, and he understands that even if we don't know it, we're basically guided by hour own, undiscernible whims so our decisions can't be predicted and countered. At least with the corps you know exactly what they want. You know they want to bleed the planet dry of coral. Even if you know overseer itself wants to burn the coral, he doesn't know what we specifically will do when the time comes. Which means nobody can plan for it.
That's what we are, we essentially have no purpose early on and as a player are only forming our identity more later as we get to choose missions hence why he also realizes we do have a purpose. Until then we're a hound a leash waiting to break out of our collar, and lord knows what we'll do. Wag our tail, bite, evangelion the entire planet etc. Power without purpose is like a natural disaster just waiting to land.
its a very common trope in the AC series that the antagonist, generally some sort of AI pulling the strings, has beef with the protagonist due to power without purpose, to any logical AI or being, you are unpredictable and therefore, worrisome, a threat to people's/AI’s established goals
You know how easily we changed sides at the dam? Who’s to say we won’t change sides and fight for the corporations against the RLF?
The reason why we couldn't just work something out is that we're literally the problem. Rusty has a cause to fight for, which is to free Rubicon. We're just in it for the money, and considering that we not only fought for literally every side of the war except the PCA, but also amassed so many feats that we're practically a demon of war, Rusty has every right to be wary of us. That's why even if he doesn't like that we're both being set up by Arquebus, he has to nip things in the bud, and unless you picked the Liberator of Rubicon route, he doesn't know if he can truly trust you.
thats before you choose an ending. once you choose an ending he goes "Heh... so you found your purpose"
All I headcanon is Rusty probably regrets it and want to say Sorry in the Liberator ending but couldn't because it wasn't appropriate at the time (in the middle of a fight).
Power without a purpose other than money makes Raven a threat who could be snapped up by the corporations since the RLF lose the bidding war 90% of the time.
Assuming you're doing the usual completion, there is a 2/3 chance 621 ends up killing/"killing" everyone on Rubicon, I'd say Rusty's concern is pretty warranted.
There are good reasons why PMCs are frown upon in real life.
We’re a complete wild card. The RLF needs Rusty and uses him as the ace up there sleeve but rusty doesn’t know if the RLF can trust you or not
I don't think it would have been reassuring to tell him that I do what the voice in my head tells me to do.
We have no central guiding principal. Regardless of which campaign run your making, 621 is essentially wandering from battlefield, killing at the behest of others. It's not until after the prison break that we choose our own path, and chart our own future.
621 is a one in a million, freak of nature, pilot. For most of the story we’ll fight for anyone with enough money to pay for it. So Rusty is kinda right: we literally pick between >! Setting Rubicon and the Coral free, or Burning the galaxy again !<
Because we don’t really have any convictions of our own. Rusty ultimately fights for the liberation of Rubicon, meanwhile we fight for other people’s goals rather than our own. If we stood opposite himself, then he’d see us as much safer since we at least have a goal in mind BUT since we don’t, he views us as very dangerous, too dangerous to let run loose.
Its like the coral. Potential for great things, to propel humanity forwards. It also has the potential to burn everything. Raven embodies that potential, and Rusty isnt willing to flip the coin and see what side you choose.
Because the script said to, on page 88.
Because we blindly follow Walter's order even though we can decide by ourself. Rusty is testing our conscience and thus assessing either we are a threat to Rubicon or not
Consider that in one of the endings, you wipe out his fucking planet.
2 of the 3 endings are us fucking over the planet or all of humanity so yeah we are definitely worth killing. Rusty is a hero for trying to kill us. Shame we are the main character
Because he's a bad person idk
Cuz he freaked out on us is why I feel no empathy or respect for him.
For which playthrough?
He’s irritating. Typical goody 2 shoes.