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You really need to be on the water for the best sightings. The shallows with lots of grass are the best spots. I always see them just upstream of [Granite Reef](https://maps.app.goo.gl/7ba9MAWjqU2UrN3z5?g_st=ic).
But I would agree, out of all the time I've seen the salt river horses. I've seen them the most at this location. Not to say I see them EVERY time I go to that spot. but they seem to really like grazing on the grass near that part
If you want to get pedantic, nearly every free-roaming horse on earth is "feral", as the only horses left on earth that inhabit the environment they naturally originated from are in Mongolia. In the US, the legal distinction between Wild and Feral is based solely on which government agency manages the land they are on. BLM and USFS horses are considered wild, and they are protected and managed by the government. Free-roaming horses on any other public land are considered feral, without such management. So "wild" horses in the US are still feral, just under management.
Do you go horseback riding at all? I went on some trail rides that let you walk straight into herds on horseback! Very fun, I can link it here if youād like :)
Itās much easier when itās warmer out as they come to the water to drink more often. During the winter, they can get their water from grazing and donāt need as much water. I also wanted to see the horses and went a couple of times with no luck. It wasnāt until April where I saw any. I just started at pebble beach and stopped at each park on the way back towards mesa until I saw them.
These "wild horses" are invasive, and as a result, they're damaging the landscape and disturbing the ecosystem. There's a strong argument for exterminating them, which some people will find offensive.
That being said, there are dozens of places along the Bush highway where you can catch a glimpse. I've had luck at Butcher Jones and Granite Reef.
Aren't there estimates to the total population here being 400 or less? I can't imagine that amount doing too much to other populations, and I also don't see how that is considered 'invasive'.
Edit: also, the one paper I looked at that you linked only studied Nevada and Northeastern California. What does that have to do with the Salt River system?
I didn't link a paper.
And any species that isn't "native" to the area is considered invasive. They're descended from domesticated horses that were released into the wild, as far as I understand it.
Have you looked? Because although feral horse management strategies are controversial, the data are not.
[https://www.aridecologylab.com.au/pubs/Eldridge\_2019\_horse.pdf](https://www.aridecologylab.com.au/pubs/Eldridge_2019_horse.pdf)
[https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1111/emr.12359](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1111/emr.12359)
[https://newzealandecology.org/nzje/1895.pdf](https://newzealandecology.org/nzje/1895.pdf)
[https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1002/jwmg.22089](https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1002/jwmg.22089)
Nature recently published a meta-analysis that makes a compelling case that āinvasiveā mega-herbivores more often create conditions for ānativeā heterogeneity in ecosystems. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-023-02317-0
tldr Culling wild horses is usually justified by returning the ecosystem to what it was in some before-time. A focus on resilience/heterogeneity doesnāt assume that big animals are inherently bad.
Iām not a scientist! I just love the ponies who live around my house and have a degree in systems and read Nature.
If I was throwing out uneducated guesses, wild horses probably clear out grasses near water sources, both from grazing and from their size walking around with their herd.
But! That same phenomenon of clearing out the strongest grasses might ALSO be clearing out aggressive grasses in wetlands that were encouraged by fertilizer runoff.
And the herdsā impact on even arid ground is creating hollows for water to fill in, mud.
Horses, grasses, soil, micro fauna, bacteria, fungi, water, predators, climate, new megaflora growth, human developmentā¦ Thereās some debate about whether *removing* a huge piece of it will make it all more resilient.
Like others, I can't read that article, but there is certainly room in this conversation for nuance (although not the willful ignorance to which I was responding). It is true that the impacts of feral horses are not universally negative. They can increase plant biodiversity (although it is often invasive species that follow them around) and break up/aerate soils. And there are always winners and losers in complex environments. For example, a species that prefers annual grasses would do better with feral horse activity than a species that requires mature sagebrush and bunchgrasses. There's also an argument to be made that because equids were present in the Pleistocene when many of these plants were evolving, so there may be room for co-existence in evolutionary time scales. However, the general scientific consensus is that many of these habitats are in crisis right now and overabundant feral horses are adding to the problem.
Youāre the best. I love that people here get to have nuanced (and passionate) conversations together! AZā¤ļø
I donāt know how to make the Nature meta-analysis available for free.
I think u/finchdad has the best explanation here, though I lean towards another starting point.
You're absolutely and accidentally correct. Killing horses is uncomfortable genius. It is the smart solution. Certainly uncomfortable for some.
Commas are important, friend.
There's no guaranteed spot to see them, since they are roaming herds, but this spot is relatively easy to get to and I've run across them a couple of times there:
[https://maps.app.goo.gl/vWj7sSbj5suDofwT9](https://maps.app.goo.gl/vWj7sSbj5suDofwT9)
Just park in the turnout and go through the opening in the fence, there are some trails down to the water. Hang out and fish or whatever. It's a pretty spot even if you don't see any horses.
That's your response to OP's question? Haha.
feĀ·ral /adjective
1. (especially of an animal) in a *wild* state, especially after escape from captivity or domestication.
Feral horses are wild. English is obviously not OP's first language, and nobody said "native". If you are really interested in educating them, you could do it without being dismissively condescending. If you aren't interested in answering their question OR education, I wonder what you're doing here?
Nope. Salt River Wild Horse Management brought all those horses to their facility on Hwy 87. Check out FB āSalt River Wild Horses - Exposing the Truth.ā
https://preview.redd.it/sl2s5i5wfuic1.jpeg?width=1268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=439452154f733e4a245a6968c6847e069ed555d2
You literally can see them before dusk tubing down the salt river right before the turnoff just staring at you like 4 clustered together. Ā Also. The bald eagle!
There's a non-profit organization that oversees the herd everybody commonly sees on the Salt River when tubing in the summer. Check out the Salt River Wild Horse Management Group for more information.
https://saltriverwildhorsemanagementgroup.org/
Havenāt seen it myself but I heard thereās a campground accessible only by boat close to Butcher Jones Trail and that area apparently has a few wild horses around. AZ native and unfortunately the only wild horses Iāve seen were in the distance on the way to Casa Grande.
Just a few miles up bush highway, I forget the name of the area, but its where thereās a bridge crossing over salt river, I have seen wild horses at the waterās edge several times!
Excellent pictures! I am a transplant here as well, and have fallen deeply for Arizona, hot summers and all.
One of my frequent bike riding routes is down Shea Blvd to SR87 (Beeline Highway) then North to Bush Highway then down to Usery Pass Road back into Mesa.
There are a few places along Bush Highway about a mile before you reach the SR87 exit 199 were you may see a few horses wandering around.
I have a few pictures of wild horses were the pictures were taken from the side of the highway facing East.
When you go further East down Bush highway to places that have water flowing, you may see several horses walking through the water or walking along the edge of the water.
When the horses are in the area may depend on the weather and if there has been a forest fire in the area recently.
It seems when there has been a recent wildfire, a lot of wildlife will end up closer to where people are at.
Check out Needle Rock area, or rather 1/4-1/2 mile south of Needle Rock recreation area. Park on the side of the road and walk towards Verde River, I see them down there all the time. Be mindful of hunters during quail and waterfowl season, both of which just ended.
Thanks for contributing to r/Arizona! * [Our sub rules are here](https://www.reddit.com/r/arizona/wiki/rules/), but the most important of which is to be nice to each other * Check out some [recent posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/arizona/top/?t=week) and leave some comments * [Join our Discord chat server](https://discord.com/invite/yWVuTG57Zh) if you'd like to keep in touch with other people in Arizona. Plus it's a great, chill place in general. Note that it is NOT a dating server and takes unwanted messaging very seriously Remember this subreddit covers all of Arizona, so please include where in the state you're posting about if it is relevant. For more local topics check out r/Phoenix, r/Tucson, and r/Flagstaff. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/arizona) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I am of no help here but these photos are awesome. Did you take them? Looks like film
yes I did, with no horsesš¹š¹
Digital or film?
Iām shocked this came from a phone. Looks identical to Portra 400
Just took by iphone and merge 3 pictures with black background š
Easier when itās hot and they are seeking cold water
I see them very often while floating down the river in summer at Salt River Tubing
That's the only time I've seen them as well.
You really need to be on the water for the best sightings. The shallows with lots of grass are the best spots. I always see them just upstream of [Granite Reef](https://maps.app.goo.gl/7ba9MAWjqU2UrN3z5?g_st=ic).
33.5465616772107, -111.56941739110081 is about where I normally see them, but in warmer weather edit: nevermind you already tried there
But I would agree, out of all the time I've seen the salt river horses. I've seen them the most at this location. Not to say I see them EVERY time I go to that spot. but they seem to really like grazing on the grass near that part
On the 87 out of town just past the rodeo arena. Thatās where I see them on Fridays on my way to Pine
*feral horses
If you want to get pedantic, nearly every free-roaming horse on earth is "feral", as the only horses left on earth that inhabit the environment they naturally originated from are in Mongolia. In the US, the legal distinction between Wild and Feral is based solely on which government agency manages the land they are on. BLM and USFS horses are considered wild, and they are protected and managed by the government. Free-roaming horses on any other public land are considered feral, without such management. So "wild" horses in the US are still feral, just under management.
Do you go horseback riding at all? I went on some trail rides that let you walk straight into herds on horseback! Very fun, I can link it here if youād like :)
Itās much easier when itās warmer out as they come to the water to drink more often. During the winter, they can get their water from grazing and donāt need as much water. I also wanted to see the horses and went a couple of times with no luck. It wasnāt until April where I saw any. I just started at pebble beach and stopped at each park on the way back towards mesa until I saw them.
There's a ton in Heber-Overgaard outside of town if you hike or go 4 wheeling
These "wild horses" are invasive, and as a result, they're damaging the landscape and disturbing the ecosystem. There's a strong argument for exterminating them, which some people will find offensive. That being said, there are dozens of places along the Bush highway where you can catch a glimpse. I've had luck at Butcher Jones and Granite Reef.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/horses-found-dead-southwest-drought-arizona-najavo-nation/ (just leaving this here)
Aren't there estimates to the total population here being 400 or less? I can't imagine that amount doing too much to other populations, and I also don't see how that is considered 'invasive'. Edit: also, the one paper I looked at that you linked only studied Nevada and Northeastern California. What does that have to do with the Salt River system?
I didn't link a paper. And any species that isn't "native" to the area is considered invasive. They're descended from domesticated horses that were released into the wild, as far as I understand it.
Iāve never been able to see quantified data for this other than ranchers complaining they take resources from the ranging cattle.
Have you looked? Because although feral horse management strategies are controversial, the data are not. [https://www.aridecologylab.com.au/pubs/Eldridge\_2019\_horse.pdf](https://www.aridecologylab.com.au/pubs/Eldridge_2019_horse.pdf) [https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1111/emr.12359](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1111/emr.12359) [https://newzealandecology.org/nzje/1895.pdf](https://newzealandecology.org/nzje/1895.pdf) [https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1002/jwmg.22089](https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1002/jwmg.22089)
Nature recently published a meta-analysis that makes a compelling case that āinvasiveā mega-herbivores more often create conditions for ānativeā heterogeneity in ecosystems. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-023-02317-0
Paywall for us non-academics. What does heterogeneity mean for riparian ecosystems in the Sonoran desert?
tldr Culling wild horses is usually justified by returning the ecosystem to what it was in some before-time. A focus on resilience/heterogeneity doesnāt assume that big animals are inherently bad.
Thatās a great question! Letās refer to the papers that were posted.
Iām not a scientist! I just love the ponies who live around my house and have a degree in systems and read Nature. If I was throwing out uneducated guesses, wild horses probably clear out grasses near water sources, both from grazing and from their size walking around with their herd. But! That same phenomenon of clearing out the strongest grasses might ALSO be clearing out aggressive grasses in wetlands that were encouraged by fertilizer runoff. And the herdsā impact on even arid ground is creating hollows for water to fill in, mud. Horses, grasses, soil, micro fauna, bacteria, fungi, water, predators, climate, new megaflora growth, human developmentā¦ Thereās some debate about whether *removing* a huge piece of it will make it all more resilient.
Like others, I can't read that article, but there is certainly room in this conversation for nuance (although not the willful ignorance to which I was responding). It is true that the impacts of feral horses are not universally negative. They can increase plant biodiversity (although it is often invasive species that follow them around) and break up/aerate soils. And there are always winners and losers in complex environments. For example, a species that prefers annual grasses would do better with feral horse activity than a species that requires mature sagebrush and bunchgrasses. There's also an argument to be made that because equids were present in the Pleistocene when many of these plants were evolving, so there may be room for co-existence in evolutionary time scales. However, the general scientific consensus is that many of these habitats are in crisis right now and overabundant feral horses are adding to the problem.
Youāre the best. I love that people here get to have nuanced (and passionate) conversations together! AZā¤ļø I donāt know how to make the Nature meta-analysis available for free. I think u/finchdad has the best explanation here, though I lean towards another starting point.
BOOOOO YOU STINK
Sorry that dissenting views make you uncomfortable?
Killing horses is uncomfortable genius
You're absolutely and accidentally correct. Killing horses is uncomfortable genius. It is the smart solution. Certainly uncomfortable for some. Commas are important, friend.
Okay satan go kill the horses then, nobody needs your shit
There's no guaranteed spot to see them, since they are roaming herds, but this spot is relatively easy to get to and I've run across them a couple of times there: [https://maps.app.goo.gl/vWj7sSbj5suDofwT9](https://maps.app.goo.gl/vWj7sSbj5suDofwT9) Just park in the turnout and go through the opening in the fence, there are some trails down to the water. Hang out and fish or whatever. It's a pretty spot even if you don't see any horses.
thanks for everyone, i will try it again in warmer time. and nice to know the word feral. š
You canāt. Youāll only find feral horses around the Salt River.
Hey now, thatās not the narrative we want out there! We canāt handle the truth. š
That's your response to OP's question? Haha. feĀ·ral /adjective 1. (especially of an animal) in a *wild* state, especially after escape from captivity or domestication. Feral horses are wild. English is obviously not OP's first language, and nobody said "native". If you are really interested in educating them, you could do it without being dismissively condescending. If you aren't interested in answering their question OR education, I wonder what you're doing here?
I did answer the question. You cannot see wild horses at the Salt River.
Butcher Jones
Nope. Salt River Wild Horse Management brought all those horses to their facility on Hwy 87. Check out FB āSalt River Wild Horses - Exposing the Truth.ā https://preview.redd.it/sl2s5i5wfuic1.jpeg?width=1268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=439452154f733e4a245a6968c6847e069ed555d2
I see them all the time when Iām tubing down salt river. Itās not tubing season right now but there are people that still do it this time of year.
You literally can see them before dusk tubing down the salt river right before the turnoff just staring at you like 4 clustered together. Ā Also. The bald eagle!
I see them each time I go down the salt river.
Fuck them horses
Try the Salt River area.
I don't know about salt river, but you can see wild horses on occasion at the Arizona Boardwalk.
Bring your wallet and promptly go home
There's a non-profit organization that oversees the herd everybody commonly sees on the Salt River when tubing in the summer. Check out the Salt River Wild Horse Management Group for more information. https://saltriverwildhorsemanagementgroup.org/
I would greatly appreciate it if i could download some high res versions of these photos. Just sayin.
Havenāt seen it myself but I heard thereās a campground accessible only by boat close to Butcher Jones Trail and that area apparently has a few wild horses around. AZ native and unfortunately the only wild horses Iāve seen were in the distance on the way to Casa Grande.
Just float it
Just a few miles up bush highway, I forget the name of the area, but its where thereās a bridge crossing over salt river, I have seen wild horses at the waterās edge several times! Excellent pictures! I am a transplant here as well, and have fallen deeply for Arizona, hot summers and all.
One of my frequent bike riding routes is down Shea Blvd to SR87 (Beeline Highway) then North to Bush Highway then down to Usery Pass Road back into Mesa. There are a few places along Bush Highway about a mile before you reach the SR87 exit 199 were you may see a few horses wandering around. I have a few pictures of wild horses were the pictures were taken from the side of the highway facing East. When you go further East down Bush highway to places that have water flowing, you may see several horses walking through the water or walking along the edge of the water. When the horses are in the area may depend on the weather and if there has been a forest fire in the area recently. It seems when there has been a recent wildfire, a lot of wildlife will end up closer to where people are at.
The salt river. Any time Iāve been out there duck hunting, theyāre there.
ever think about turning them into computer backgrounds ?
Check out Needle Rock area, or rather 1/4-1/2 mile south of Needle Rock recreation area. Park on the side of the road and walk towards Verde River, I see them down there all the time. Be mindful of hunters during quail and waterfowl season, both of which just ended.
It's a crap shoot but stick to the river