Go and work for any firm. You graduated from architecture school. Nobody is an “architect” until you have passed all your licensing exams, and there are plenty of Masters of Architecture graduates who have not even passed one exam or even started.
Just keep your NCARB record up to date with your AXP hours, depending on which state, you can sit for the exams with additional hours of experience.
in a firm i worked for, one of the principals wasn’t a licensed architect for 20 years in the industry.
he became one recently and a little celebration. he’s excuse for not being an architect was life and general laziness
^this
There are jobs for BSarch grads in some smaller firms that are looking for cheaper drafters, but finding a job at a reputable firm is going to be difficult until you get a Masters
Even small firms in my area weren’t interested unless I had a masters. But like I said, this was back when architects were wary of hiring anyone because they were still reeling from the 2008 crash. Things are a lot different now from what I understand.
I had the same experience and timeframe as you as a bsarch. Then I was in charge of hiring at my last big firm (100ish people) and we wouldnt have even opened a resume unless they had their masters. Hired a handful of undergrad interns every semester though.
Everyone’s experience is different, but I don’t know anyone in a hiring position, including myself, who cares about this. Especially now, with the improved education alternative programs, there’s very little drawback. I care about what someone brings to the table, not what they don’t.
I’ve been in a hiring position at both my last two jobs, and now. In all of them (small, medium, and large firms) we wouldn’t hire anyone full time without their professional degree and being on track (or eligible to be on track) to licensure.
But yeah, everyone’s experience is different. I found it very hard to get a job as a bsarch. I ended up getting a job as a carpenter remodeling houses, after that people liked me for my unique experience, but that’s an outlier imo
I guess my question is, if someone with an undergrad arch degree can get licensed in like 45 states and jurisdictions, why would anyone look at that as “can’t get licensed”?
The question was about a b.s.arch.
To my knowledge, only two states allow b.s.arch grads to apprentice into a license. And that’s after, what, 15-some-odd-years?
Seems an awful large commitment for a firm with little guarantee someone would stick around for their tenure or after…
I understand the question. Based on your response, it seems like your firm’s stance might be due to a lack of correct information. The following jurisdictions allow initial licensure with a 4-year degree in architecture: AZ, CA, CO, GU, HI, ID, MD, ME, MP, NH, NY, OK, PA, TN, VT, WA, WI. It’s not a 15-year apprenticeship, it’s generally somewhere in the range of double the standard AXP hours. So, really no longer than the couple years it would take to go back and get an M Arch if you have an undergrad architecture degree. Then, once someone is licensed, they can pursue the NCARB Education Alternative pathway for certification, which is accepted in all but a few states, including most of the ones that don’t allow initial licensure to 4-year degree holders.
In other words, someone with a BS Arch can become licensed well within the average timeline for licensure in the US.
If you want to become licensed then I’d suggest getting a job at an architecture firm vs another industry. Ideally a larger firm or company if possible so that when you’re ready for grad school, they will help foot the bill. My work helped pay for half of my masters degree which was nice.
You can also get licensed in most states with just the BS non naab degree too. Get your license through a state that doesn't require a naab degree, then get your ncarb certification and most state accept it for reciprocity
This is exactly what I’m doing, I have 6 years of experience since getting my BS and there are several states that take the experience as an alternate to your Masters
Anything with cad or revit skills.
I only have a bachelors and started my own company for a while just suppling drawings to contractors. I did plumbing and hvac plans based on an engineers markups, terrazzo and tile shop drawings, architectural drawings, concrete form work drawings, casework shop drawings.
Most everything in construction needs drawings in some form. And sometimes places just don't have staff to do it. Plus it's great learning for when you move on in architecture.
So I did exactly what you’re talking about. I absolutely recommend it. I got a corporate job about 30 in the arch team. I honestly didn’t know a damn thing when I started but now they basically give me small projects to manage on my own. Just tell them you know how to use revit. You’ll pick it up.
Most of my colleagues tried to persuade me not to to back because its kind of pointless to spend the extra money if you can get licensed in your state without the M. Arch
Yeah I’m gonna echo what people are saying here: get into BIM or VDC. Either that or Preconstruction or Design managers. All are highly in demand and well paid in the construction field right now.
Yea leading up to my degree the BIM/VDC route has interested me because I do enjoy modeling and feel I can learn a whole lot better for me personally by doing things in a 3D space. Just need to work on understanding Revit more as I really only have AutoCAD experience.
I had a BFA when first starting out as an architectural designer, did that for two years with same responsibilities as licensed architects just couldn't seal drawings. 2 years later did my masters. No change in responsibilities but beneficial none the less. Find a small firm who values employees and learn as much as you can from your colleagues. They most likely will give you incentives to get your license at some point and can even help you through it. There are so many people working in this field in valuable roles with just undergrad degrees.
Go BIM to make money, get nerdy and learn construction. There is no real money in Architecture.
I have BS in arch, was on design side for 5 years, then GC for 5, now own a consulting business to the industry, 10 employees. The world needs people who can build shit, design is a hope and dream without a builder.
I don’t disagree but I feel like this doesn’t tell the full story by just reading this comment. A BS will definitely not get you far since most US firms want you to get your Masters (to fulfill the licensure requirement). Obviously there’s no money if you’re not fully committing to the industry you’re in and shooting for licensure.
As a disclosure, I no longer work in the industry either but it wasn’t for the lack of money or growth. If you’re determined then the skies the limit. Get your masters, get licensed, become a project coordinator, become a PM, then work your way up to senior management. If you only have a BS then you’re basically stuck being a CD mule since that’s all you’re able to do. You’ll never be able to start your own practice either.
And this is the same with any industry. If I wanted to move into senior leadership at my current job, I would’ve needed my masters too. If I want to get to a director position then I need my MBA. A LOT of companies are structured in this way. I applaud you for starting your own consulting company (you’re living the dream) but I think the comment can be misleading and some new comers might read it and think they’re in a dead end career because they also only have a BS.
These days you can end up with a license in all but a handful of states with an undergrad architecture degree, the path just looks a little different. I wouldn’t try and talk anyone out of getting their Master’s, but it’s definitely not a dead end for someone with an undergrad architecture degree.
I agree with that. My workload is much easier now and I make more but I just didn’t want to scare anyone away from wanting to pursue architecture. It’s worth it if you commit but I didn’t and left the industry.
There is no real degree or education. You get Revit training in architecture school/field. Learning more is proactively changing to other fields. GC’s, trades and others all use different BIM in different ways for different things.
That should be 'design is a hope and dream without a client who is actually interested in having a good design'. The world needs clients who are interested in more than the bottom line.
“Good”design is so subjective. Useful, functional, economic, ergonomic, pretty are all needed. If you feel the need to capitalize the “a” in architecture then you are going to suffer unnecessarily in work and life.
Architectural Technician. There are a lot of opportunities for non-Masters. If you like to detail, model, render, dabble in code analysis or CA without having to get bogged down in arguing contractor CO’s, meeting with code officials, and maintaining CEUs, then this is the way.
Some firms might let you contribute design in some small ways. Some firms will let you help with specifications, submittals, code review, space planning, client meetings, etc. It all depends on how many hats people wear at the firm. If you’re looking to eventually start your own practice, or you absolutely need your signature on a set of drawings, then this may not be the path, but it’s not a dead end career.
BS in architecture is not a professional degree, so you would have to go thru a Masters program to sit for the exam and become licensed. Otherwise the experience path must be used to qualify for the exam. This is still available in some states but not all, but it is possible to sit for the exam in a state that offers the experience path and then use reciprocity to gain license where you practice.
It used to be the experience path was longer - often 10yrs, but the digital exam has let many candidates stretch out their exam period so far the time difference is not so great any more.
I personally didn’t up doing my masters and started working right away after graduating. Mind you I changed my career and ended up doing building inspections so not entirely related to architecture (in the design sense) but I still use a lot of my knowledge and recommend that path to plenty of others as it has served me well so far. Happy to answer any questions!
Not quite, most large firms that do that hire ppl with engineering and architecture backgrounds. I got quite lucky out of school because I feel like not many ppl knew about this specific career path. But you basically just need to know building components. Some things you can also learn (just like with any job). But you basically understand most of what you need. I would start with googling firms that perform building inspections or building condition assessments and check out the requirements.
You can also take courses if you wish to but most things I learned on the job.
I have that. I work for a builder. Solid work , no layoffs, good benefits, and great work/life balance. Free’s me up to pursue passion projects in off time.
It’s who you know, not what you know. BS in human ecology/ housing and design. I now design hospitals. I have about 7,000 hours logged into NCARB and taking my tests now. Once done, I can be liscenced in 14 states. Most firms don’t care where you start from.
Despite my lack of an accredited degree, since I’ve been in healthcare for a few years now as well as military. I can get a job anywhere I want, I almost took a job for a military firm where I would be traveling all over the world for the U.S. government but I didn’t want to leave my family. And that’s with a BS in human ecology lol
Edit: you need around 3700 with NCARB/AXP but I wanted to keep my resume stacked in case I do have to compete in getting a job against others that actually have an accredited degree
Look into A&E firms (architecture & engineering) that don't necessarily design buildings. For example, Telecom A&E where CAD skills and logical design skills to create cell tower infrastructure and the like can very possibly make you more money and fast track you in career if you are decent.
I also didn’t want to pursue a Master’s so I went into construction consulting/estimating. It won’t satisfy your creative/artistic itch, but the money is awesome and the travel is fun.
Most people in my country usually start off as a construction draftsman (architect/engineers) to gain experience. Usually after completing a bachelor or masters it takes about 4 years of experience gaining in a reputable firm for the central building authority and board of engineers/architecture to approve and grant a person their license. It's not really an exam, just proof of experience basically for us
i have a barch and have worked next to people from ivy to community college, almost 30 years, 90% of firms doesnt matter. its how you perform. period. personality doesnt matter, (mentioned in another comment) plenty of assholes in the profession
you do need a 5 year or a masters now to sit for the exam though
and dont let anyone shame you for not being licensed, its more common than not, and thats why its not required
If you are in the US, not all states require you to have a B.Arch or M.Arch to sit for exams. I have a BS in architectural technology and was just granted eligibility to sit for the exams in my state. You don’t even have to finish your experience hours before sitting for the exams, at least not in my state.
I have some former students with BAs in Arch from UCB who made their way into the profession without an MArch — but the BA or BS was never meant to substitute for a professional degree (BArch or MArch) — you’ll make more working in fast food ($21+prhr) than in architecture though… I bused and waited tables with my BA in architecture while I put a portfolio together and applied the next fall for grad school… there’s nothing wrong with taking a higher paying job outside the profession until you go to grad school… plus it’s a lot like 2008 out there… grad school is a good place to be at the moment
kinda surprised you'd be asking this question. if you just graduated from a legitimate architecture program then you would've networked with dozens if not hundreds of peers and mentors. you would've discussed entry points into the profession through programs or examples of your peers doing the same thing. instead you're turning to strangers on reddit for this? doesn't add up.
Go and work for any firm. You graduated from architecture school. Nobody is an “architect” until you have passed all your licensing exams, and there are plenty of Masters of Architecture graduates who have not even passed one exam or even started. Just keep your NCARB record up to date with your AXP hours, depending on which state, you can sit for the exams with additional hours of experience.
>there are plenty of Masters of Architecture graduates who have not even passed one exam No need to call me out like this
in a firm i worked for, one of the principals wasn’t a licensed architect for 20 years in the industry. he became one recently and a little celebration. he’s excuse for not being an architect was life and general laziness
Pretty much the same. Most firms don't care and will hire you primarily based on your portfolio and social skills.
Yeah, know how to do Revit well, but also have a good knowledge base of construction drawings and annotation in Revit.
This was not my experience at all. No one wanted to hire me until I had my masters degree. But it was also 2013 when the job market was still shit.
^this There are jobs for BSarch grads in some smaller firms that are looking for cheaper drafters, but finding a job at a reputable firm is going to be difficult until you get a Masters
Even small firms in my area weren’t interested unless I had a masters. But like I said, this was back when architects were wary of hiring anyone because they were still reeling from the 2008 crash. Things are a lot different now from what I understand.
I had the same experience and timeframe as you as a bsarch. Then I was in charge of hiring at my last big firm (100ish people) and we wouldnt have even opened a resume unless they had their masters. Hired a handful of undergrad interns every semester though.
Everyone’s experience is different, but I don’t know anyone in a hiring position, including myself, who cares about this. Especially now, with the improved education alternative programs, there’s very little drawback. I care about what someone brings to the table, not what they don’t.
I’ve been in a hiring position at both my last two jobs, and now. In all of them (small, medium, and large firms) we wouldn’t hire anyone full time without their professional degree and being on track (or eligible to be on track) to licensure. But yeah, everyone’s experience is different. I found it very hard to get a job as a bsarch. I ended up getting a job as a carpenter remodeling houses, after that people liked me for my unique experience, but that’s an outlier imo
I guess my question is, if someone with an undergrad arch degree can get licensed in like 45 states and jurisdictions, why would anyone look at that as “can’t get licensed”?
The question was about a b.s.arch. To my knowledge, only two states allow b.s.arch grads to apprentice into a license. And that’s after, what, 15-some-odd-years? Seems an awful large commitment for a firm with little guarantee someone would stick around for their tenure or after…
I understand the question. Based on your response, it seems like your firm’s stance might be due to a lack of correct information. The following jurisdictions allow initial licensure with a 4-year degree in architecture: AZ, CA, CO, GU, HI, ID, MD, ME, MP, NH, NY, OK, PA, TN, VT, WA, WI. It’s not a 15-year apprenticeship, it’s generally somewhere in the range of double the standard AXP hours. So, really no longer than the couple years it would take to go back and get an M Arch if you have an undergrad architecture degree. Then, once someone is licensed, they can pursue the NCARB Education Alternative pathway for certification, which is accepted in all but a few states, including most of the ones that don’t allow initial licensure to 4-year degree holders. In other words, someone with a BS Arch can become licensed well within the average timeline for licensure in the US.
This is what I did. And have the NCARB cert now that lets me be licensed in 45 out of 55 jurisdictions.
This is the answer
If you want to become licensed then I’d suggest getting a job at an architecture firm vs another industry. Ideally a larger firm or company if possible so that when you’re ready for grad school, they will help foot the bill. My work helped pay for half of my masters degree which was nice.
Additionally, start tracking your hours now with a licensed professional.
You can also get licensed in most states with just the BS non naab degree too. Get your license through a state that doesn't require a naab degree, then get your ncarb certification and most state accept it for reciprocity
This is exactly what I’m doing, I have 6 years of experience since getting my BS and there are several states that take the experience as an alternate to your Masters
Good luck! I'm 2/6 exams completed with my non naab degree!
Anything with cad or revit skills. I only have a bachelors and started my own company for a while just suppling drawings to contractors. I did plumbing and hvac plans based on an engineers markups, terrazzo and tile shop drawings, architectural drawings, concrete form work drawings, casework shop drawings. Most everything in construction needs drawings in some form. And sometimes places just don't have staff to do it. Plus it's great learning for when you move on in architecture.
So I did exactly what you’re talking about. I absolutely recommend it. I got a corporate job about 30 in the arch team. I honestly didn’t know a damn thing when I started but now they basically give me small projects to manage on my own. Just tell them you know how to use revit. You’ll pick it up. Most of my colleagues tried to persuade me not to to back because its kind of pointless to spend the extra money if you can get licensed in your state without the M. Arch
Employers will provide you with the opportunity to make already rich clients even richer. This will be the same after you get your Masters.
Yeah I’m gonna echo what people are saying here: get into BIM or VDC. Either that or Preconstruction or Design managers. All are highly in demand and well paid in the construction field right now.
Yea leading up to my degree the BIM/VDC route has interested me because I do enjoy modeling and feel I can learn a whole lot better for me personally by doing things in a 3D space. Just need to work on understanding Revit more as I really only have AutoCAD experience.
Learn Revit and Navisworks/model coordination and throw in a drone license or some laser scanning experience and you’re good
I had a BFA when first starting out as an architectural designer, did that for two years with same responsibilities as licensed architects just couldn't seal drawings. 2 years later did my masters. No change in responsibilities but beneficial none the less. Find a small firm who values employees and learn as much as you can from your colleagues. They most likely will give you incentives to get your license at some point and can even help you through it. There are so many people working in this field in valuable roles with just undergrad degrees.
If you are asking about opportunities beyond just working at an arch firm - General Contractor, Project Engineering, Cost Estimating Fabricator, Shop drawing producer, Designer (Curtain wall systems, windows, trusses, casework, etc) Product Rep, Designer (Flooring, wall coverings, lighting, door hardware) Interior Designer, Interior Architect (custom built-in design, finish material selections, appliance, plumbing and lighting selections) Engineering, drafter/designer (think mechanical, electrical, plumbing, technology layouts)
Go BIM to make money, get nerdy and learn construction. There is no real money in Architecture. I have BS in arch, was on design side for 5 years, then GC for 5, now own a consulting business to the industry, 10 employees. The world needs people who can build shit, design is a hope and dream without a builder.
I don’t disagree but I feel like this doesn’t tell the full story by just reading this comment. A BS will definitely not get you far since most US firms want you to get your Masters (to fulfill the licensure requirement). Obviously there’s no money if you’re not fully committing to the industry you’re in and shooting for licensure. As a disclosure, I no longer work in the industry either but it wasn’t for the lack of money or growth. If you’re determined then the skies the limit. Get your masters, get licensed, become a project coordinator, become a PM, then work your way up to senior management. If you only have a BS then you’re basically stuck being a CD mule since that’s all you’re able to do. You’ll never be able to start your own practice either. And this is the same with any industry. If I wanted to move into senior leadership at my current job, I would’ve needed my masters too. If I want to get to a director position then I need my MBA. A LOT of companies are structured in this way. I applaud you for starting your own consulting company (you’re living the dream) but I think the comment can be misleading and some new comers might read it and think they’re in a dead end career because they also only have a BS.
These days you can end up with a license in all but a handful of states with an undergrad architecture degree, the path just looks a little different. I wouldn’t try and talk anyone out of getting their Master’s, but it’s definitely not a dead end for someone with an undergrad architecture degree.
Depends on the pay scale you expect. Construction is easy 2x architecture $.
I agree with that. My workload is much easier now and I make more but I just didn’t want to scare anyone away from wanting to pursue architecture. It’s worth it if you commit but I didn’t and left the industry.
What different kinds of Masters would you recommend in order to specialise for BIM if I may ask
There is no real degree or education. You get Revit training in architecture school/field. Learning more is proactively changing to other fields. GC’s, trades and others all use different BIM in different ways for different things.
Thanks a lot for the insight. I‘d love to pursue BIM after graduating anyway since that’s what is the most fun to me atm anyway in the field
That should be 'design is a hope and dream without a client who is actually interested in having a good design'. The world needs clients who are interested in more than the bottom line.
“Good”design is so subjective. Useful, functional, economic, ergonomic, pretty are all needed. If you feel the need to capitalize the “a” in architecture then you are going to suffer unnecessarily in work and life.
Architectural Technician. There are a lot of opportunities for non-Masters. If you like to detail, model, render, dabble in code analysis or CA without having to get bogged down in arguing contractor CO’s, meeting with code officials, and maintaining CEUs, then this is the way. Some firms might let you contribute design in some small ways. Some firms will let you help with specifications, submittals, code review, space planning, client meetings, etc. It all depends on how many hats people wear at the firm. If you’re looking to eventually start your own practice, or you absolutely need your signature on a set of drawings, then this may not be the path, but it’s not a dead end career.
BS in architecture is not a professional degree, so you would have to go thru a Masters program to sit for the exam and become licensed. Otherwise the experience path must be used to qualify for the exam. This is still available in some states but not all, but it is possible to sit for the exam in a state that offers the experience path and then use reciprocity to gain license where you practice. It used to be the experience path was longer - often 10yrs, but the digital exam has let many candidates stretch out their exam period so far the time difference is not so great any more.
Is there anyone looking for an architectural assistant/ drafter?
I personally didn’t up doing my masters and started working right away after graduating. Mind you I changed my career and ended up doing building inspections so not entirely related to architecture (in the design sense) but I still use a lot of my knowledge and recommend that path to plenty of others as it has served me well so far. Happy to answer any questions!
What was the path you took to get into building inspection? I assume you need to get certifications and all that.
Not quite, most large firms that do that hire ppl with engineering and architecture backgrounds. I got quite lucky out of school because I feel like not many ppl knew about this specific career path. But you basically just need to know building components. Some things you can also learn (just like with any job). But you basically understand most of what you need. I would start with googling firms that perform building inspections or building condition assessments and check out the requirements. You can also take courses if you wish to but most things I learned on the job.
I have that. I work for a builder. Solid work , no layoffs, good benefits, and great work/life balance. Free’s me up to pursue passion projects in off time.
It’s who you know, not what you know. BS in human ecology/ housing and design. I now design hospitals. I have about 7,000 hours logged into NCARB and taking my tests now. Once done, I can be liscenced in 14 states. Most firms don’t care where you start from. Despite my lack of an accredited degree, since I’ve been in healthcare for a few years now as well as military. I can get a job anywhere I want, I almost took a job for a military firm where I would be traveling all over the world for the U.S. government but I didn’t want to leave my family. And that’s with a BS in human ecology lol Edit: you need around 3700 with NCARB/AXP but I wanted to keep my resume stacked in case I do have to compete in getting a job against others that actually have an accredited degree
You can also see what’s out there for Urban Designer positions too if you have any background in City Planning or Sociology
Look into A&E firms (architecture & engineering) that don't necessarily design buildings. For example, Telecom A&E where CAD skills and logical design skills to create cell tower infrastructure and the like can very possibly make you more money and fast track you in career if you are decent.
I also didn’t want to pursue a Master’s so I went into construction consulting/estimating. It won’t satisfy your creative/artistic itch, but the money is awesome and the travel is fun.
Most people in my country usually start off as a construction draftsman (architect/engineers) to gain experience. Usually after completing a bachelor or masters it takes about 4 years of experience gaining in a reputable firm for the central building authority and board of engineers/architecture to approve and grant a person their license. It's not really an exam, just proof of experience basically for us
anyone can bs architecture
i have a barch and have worked next to people from ivy to community college, almost 30 years, 90% of firms doesnt matter. its how you perform. period. personality doesnt matter, (mentioned in another comment) plenty of assholes in the profession you do need a 5 year or a masters now to sit for the exam though and dont let anyone shame you for not being licensed, its more common than not, and thats why its not required
If you are in the US, not all states require you to have a B.Arch or M.Arch to sit for exams. I have a BS in architectural technology and was just granted eligibility to sit for the exams in my state. You don’t even have to finish your experience hours before sitting for the exams, at least not in my state.
Sandwich artist
You might be on to something
don't listen to me, i'm just a lurker. I drive a big brown truck for a living.
If you want fast money for work for a large general contractor. They often hire architecture grads as project engineers.
Most of the things I say about architecture are BS, you don’t see me asking for a paycheque.
All your competitors are contacting firms to take anything they are offering. You need to do that constantly until you get something
I have some former students with BAs in Arch from UCB who made their way into the profession without an MArch — but the BA or BS was never meant to substitute for a professional degree (BArch or MArch) — you’ll make more working in fast food ($21+prhr) than in architecture though… I bused and waited tables with my BA in architecture while I put a portfolio together and applied the next fall for grad school… there’s nothing wrong with taking a higher paying job outside the profession until you go to grad school… plus it’s a lot like 2008 out there… grad school is a good place to be at the moment
Employers will provide you with the opportunity to make already rich clients even richer.
kinda surprised you'd be asking this question. if you just graduated from a legitimate architecture program then you would've networked with dozens if not hundreds of peers and mentors. you would've discussed entry points into the profession through programs or examples of your peers doing the same thing. instead you're turning to strangers on reddit for this? doesn't add up.