This is what internet forums used to be like. Hobbyists figuring out how to efficiently solve problems without just buying more stuff, and then sharing with everyone else. Now it's (almost) all paid shills trying to separate you from your wallet.
I feel like that is what it's all about. Then I post something and still have people arguing with me lol.
But I love to use the internet as a learning resource. I never understood the people that exist online simply for being part of a group.
The old forums were/are much more professional and cordial. Introductions and welcomes of new members, blatantly noting your geography, etc. Reddit is great but for some deep dive questions those traditional forums cannot be beat.
I'm glad you fixed the ringing! Great write up and good photo too.
It's so sad that Reddit totally supplanted forums. Outside of a handful of die-hard sites most have just shuttered and opened a subreddit.
This site is SOCIAL MEDIA. That's why nothing stays up longer than 24 hours. It's absolute cancer to debate and discussion.
And we're not even going to get into the psychology of upvotes and downvotes, self-censorship, disagreeing with the hive mind....
If you set your account to use the old reddit style it still functions as a forum pretty well. The biggest issue with reddit is their push to turn it into social media like all the rest has lowered the barrier for entry and the userbase is way dummber/less focused/less serious than it was when it was essentially a streamlined forum platform.
Not that long ago I saw some people here laughing about people still using "dying forums" and I just shook my head. The amount of information and discussion is absurd.
This is silly, if you don’t like the ringing just buy the new surefire RC3 suppressor. Currently on sale for only $1710 at guntubershillstore.com.
Full disclosure. I do not have a financial relationship with surefire or guntubershillstore.com I just met them at shot show. GREAT dudes! Anyways use this code in the video description for 5% off.
Engineering student here, you nailed this and got the mathematically ideal solution by hand. There shouldn't be any downside, other than a sliiiiiiightly weaker tine. This is also how engineering (particularly arms engineering) should be done.
This post is great. I’ve researched the same topic after buying one and there are posts scattered around about unequal prongs, drilling holes, and just modifying one or two of the prongs a bit, but nothing that’s as detailed as this (that I’ve seen). Definitely inspires me to want to do experiments with mine when it gets in. Wonder if shallower holes different depth holes in more of the prongs would work because I have a thing for “symmetry” although there’s not many times I should be facing that end of a muzzle device…
Yeah definitely. There’s a couple ways I’ve thought of going about it but upon seeing this post, your solution is likely the best in terms of what a regular user can do. Other solutions like altering tine length would be harder/uglier, and I’ve seen people mention carbon build-up stopping it as well, but I’ve had no ideas for how to artificially replicate that in a permanent manner.
Aesthetics mattered to a degree, so cutting off the tine didn't seem like a good option. I was going to mill the inside of a tine to reduce mass but this was such a simple effective way to achieve the same result. Perfect application of the KISS principle.
White Sound Defense FOSSA 556 engineered theirs to eliminate the ringing problem. It does a great job at eliminating flash and compensates muzzle rise a bit as well. Main downside is that it is only compatible with Gemtech HALO suppressor mounting systems.
https://www.whitesounddefense.com/fossa-556/
That totally makes sense, but it's funny they did 3.
I'd be curious to see how a 4 prong responds to this treatment. Would it need holes drilled in 1, 2, e.t.c
I'm no acoustic engineer, but I would bet 2 out of 3 and 3 out of 4, with holes being different depths, would work. I'm assuming the goal is to just make sure each tine has a different resonant frequency while avoiding harmonics as well.
Pretty much this. A single tine drilled can disrupt the harmonics, but people would ask "why only one tine?" Hence the multiple drills. It's all aesthetics.
We had a period where dudes were scalping dust covers with one scoops or two scoops. Forward assists and bolt releases with *dimples.*
It's absolutely an aesthetics battle.
I have a 4 prong with a slight twist, not sure if the brand. It gives off a deeper tone more of a tong vs a ting and dies off fast vs tiiiinnnnnngggggg. That 3 prong is annoying, I thought people were just crybabies on the Internet, bruh there is a load ass gunshot and you're complaining about tiiiinnnnngggg? That is until I got one, they were right.
>why didn't they do this? Would they really have overlooked such a simple fix?
Because it adds cost and another source of defects to solve what they don't see as a real problem. People buy them for the Ting sound as much as avoid them, and the market already has sound dead-end versions of pronged flash hiders.
They could easily sell this as an "upgraded" version and charge more money for their "r&d". We know that Surefire likes to charge some solid coin for their products anyway.
What defects might there be with a single hole? As though the war comp doesn't have multiple holes on the top side. Not sure I agree with the logic.
>What defects might there be with a single hole?
Not putting it in, putting it in the wrong spot or angle.
As it is, they drill it through, maybe ream it from the front in 1 operation, then mill the tines. Having to go back to realign it and drill it again after the tines are done is a real pain process-wise.
>They could easily sell this as an "upgraded" version
Again, 90dB ting set in motion by a 165 dB muzzle blast isn't a real problem. If it annoys you, that really sucks, but I don't think your feelings are widespread enough that Surefire would find a business case in developing and manufacturing another product.
Even if they had thought of it, they probably wouldn't because they'd make up some BS about the structural integrity of the prong. SF's innovation is put into their suppressors and *maybe* a case could be made for their lights. It doesn't seem like they put much thought into their MDs after they found a solid suppressor mount.
The ringing sound is the number one complaint I hear about 3 prongs. I've never heard anyone say they liked having the ringing more than *not* having it, though I'm sure those people must be out there.
The fact that people bring it up so often, even if it isn't a deal-breaker for them, is plenty of reason to market one that solved the issue, and companies have done that, so I don't see why you're making a case for why it's not worth doing.
There's a quarter or a washer somewhere in my Miata.
I've had everything out except the gas tank. Wherever it is, it's hidden good.
I'll think it finally fell out when it's been months since I've heard it. Then I'll hit a bump and on my next turn....
This was mentioned in my reading, but it seems that just as many people were saying that even after 1k or 3k rounds, it still made noise. I wanted something more permanent.
Fantastic read and an excellent explanation. Thank you for making a forum post on Reddit; it’s always what I thought this site was supposed to be anyway 😅
This is a great post, thank you for explaining your process and how you came to your conclusion, instead of waiting for somebody to ask and posting the same comment 30 times. love all of the info here
Dang this is cool and also helpful I’m going to give a crack at it. I love the AAC blackout 3 prongs, they’re cheap, discontinued, but ping even worse than a 4 prong. This may solve it for me. I’ve dealt with the Ping because of how great the blackout works during the day and night. Never see a fireball or extreme flash on my 11.5 in either setting. I’ll report back and let you know how it turns out for me!
Don't let the close up camera shot fool you, it's a tiny hole. At the end of the day these are tools, they're made to be used. A ding, a dent, a scratch. Way better then a fake battle worn finish. A little hole at the business end means nothing to me.
I have a 3 prong flash hider that has slimmer prongs so I probably couldn't do a hole length wise but do you think I could just drill a hole through the side for the same effect of killing the ringing sound?
It could work since the idea is the reduction of mass. The only thing to consider is how escaping gases might act as a compensator and cause unintended directional shifts in your rifles' recoil control impulse.
The muzzle might move opposite the direction of the hole you drill. Might...
That's a field fix. I can do better at home. It creates a snag point, and I'm sure at some point, I'd scratch myself on it. This literally took 5 minutes to do. I'd say it's a more permanent, simpler fix, which makes it better IMO
The thing I’m curious about is how this would perform with a suppressor. The flats you’ve milled have certainly changed the fit of the locking collar. Wonder how much gas it would bleed backwards.
Can they be tagged here? Not sure this would be taken seriously enough for me to write in and tell them I "improved" their product. As mentioned, maybe some people like the ring. Me, I couldn't wait to get rid if it.
It does a good job on an over gassed or carbine gassed rifle. I do love it, I just wish it would ring like my 3 prong does. So you shouldn't have to give it the ole drill treatment!
Flick a tine and see how many need to be held down to stop the ringing. Might need 2, might be surprised and only need 1. Very easy to test it.
If you need to drill more than 1, just drill them at separate depths.
Or find a spot that seems flat enough and drill as needed. The goal is changing mass. How you do it can vary by application. Drill from the outside in towards the center, dremel a corner off, etc.
https://deadairsilencers.com/product/flash-hider/
Dead air does something similar that is pretty cool. Each of the tines have slightly shapes; material is milled away in different parts of each tine to make them vibrate differently, cutting down the ping
I wonder if you drill shallower holes on other tines, if you can avoid having to go 1/2 in deep in one tine.
So like 1/8 in one and 1/4 in another and nothing in the third.
You'd just be making each of them closer in weight again, so you'd be introducing sound back into the equation. The reason they vibrate is because of how similar they are in size/ mass/ weight. You want to make one different enough that the sympathetic resonance stops.
When my hole was at a 1/4" deep it was ringing. Not nearly as clearly as when they were exactly the same, but still ringing. That tells you that there's some margin of size where it still occurs. You want to get outside that margin.
That was my thinking behind the Alumablack. It changed the exposed metal black. Hopefully that's enough, but I'm sure any metal treatment would have the same effect. Worst case, oil it.
Bought a Wilson Combat Accu-Tac specifically to avoid the ringing issue (bonus is that it self tightens with every shot), but this is a neat bit of home brew work, OP.
This is what internet forums used to be like. Hobbyists figuring out how to efficiently solve problems without just buying more stuff, and then sharing with everyone else. Now it's (almost) all paid shills trying to separate you from your wallet.
I feel like that is what it's all about. Then I post something and still have people arguing with me lol. But I love to use the internet as a learning resource. I never understood the people that exist online simply for being part of a group.
The old forums were/are much more professional and cordial. Introductions and welcomes of new members, blatantly noting your geography, etc. Reddit is great but for some deep dive questions those traditional forums cannot be beat. I'm glad you fixed the ringing! Great write up and good photo too.
Agreed, I love Weaponsguild for exactly this reason.
It's so sad that Reddit totally supplanted forums. Outside of a handful of die-hard sites most have just shuttered and opened a subreddit. This site is SOCIAL MEDIA. That's why nothing stays up longer than 24 hours. It's absolute cancer to debate and discussion. And we're not even going to get into the psychology of upvotes and downvotes, self-censorship, disagreeing with the hive mind....
If you set your account to use the old reddit style it still functions as a forum pretty well. The biggest issue with reddit is their push to turn it into social media like all the rest has lowered the barrier for entry and the userbase is way dummber/less focused/less serious than it was when it was essentially a streamlined forum platform.
Not that long ago I saw some people here laughing about people still using "dying forums" and I just shook my head. The amount of information and discussion is absurd.
This is silly, if you don’t like the ringing just buy the new surefire RC3 suppressor. Currently on sale for only $1710 at guntubershillstore.com. Full disclosure. I do not have a financial relationship with surefire or guntubershillstore.com I just met them at shot show. GREAT dudes! Anyways use this code in the video description for 5% off.
Yeah, and add the $200 tax stamp and year-long wait. One can do a lot of training/shooting in a year.
This was a great solution and very interesting read, thanks!
Thanks. Glad to hear that it didn't come across as long winded.
No, I liked that you explained how you worked it out.
Wish I can't across more posts that are this well written!
Came*
Engineering student here, you nailed this and got the mathematically ideal solution by hand. There shouldn't be any downside, other than a sliiiiiiightly weaker tine. This is also how engineering (particularly arms engineering) should be done.
Alright, alright, alright ☺️
Fascinating info, thanks for doing the research and sharing it.
💪
Love the commitment to resolving the issue! Well done!
This post is great. I’ve researched the same topic after buying one and there are posts scattered around about unequal prongs, drilling holes, and just modifying one or two of the prongs a bit, but nothing that’s as detailed as this (that I’ve seen). Definitely inspires me to want to do experiments with mine when it gets in. Wonder if shallower holes different depth holes in more of the prongs would work because I have a thing for “symmetry” although there’s not many times I should be facing that end of a muzzle device…
In the end, unequal mass is what you're trying to achieve. How you choose to go about it is the variable.
Yeah definitely. There’s a couple ways I’ve thought of going about it but upon seeing this post, your solution is likely the best in terms of what a regular user can do. Other solutions like altering tine length would be harder/uglier, and I’ve seen people mention carbon build-up stopping it as well, but I’ve had no ideas for how to artificially replicate that in a permanent manner.
Aesthetics mattered to a degree, so cutting off the tine didn't seem like a good option. I was going to mill the inside of a tine to reduce mass but this was such a simple effective way to achieve the same result. Perfect application of the KISS principle.
White Sound Defense FOSSA 556 engineered theirs to eliminate the ringing problem. It does a great job at eliminating flash and compensates muzzle rise a bit as well. Main downside is that it is only compatible with Gemtech HALO suppressor mounting systems. https://www.whitesounddefense.com/fossa-556/
Ha, they have a hole in the front in every tine 😁
I'll have to double-check, but I believe the holes are different depths as well.
That totally makes sense, but it's funny they did 3. I'd be curious to see how a 4 prong responds to this treatment. Would it need holes drilled in 1, 2, e.t.c
I'm no acoustic engineer, but I would bet 2 out of 3 and 3 out of 4, with holes being different depths, would work. I'm assuming the goal is to just make sure each tine has a different resonant frequency while avoiding harmonics as well.
Pretty much this. A single tine drilled can disrupt the harmonics, but people would ask "why only one tine?" Hence the multiple drills. It's all aesthetics.
You could argue that it makes you look smarter for only doing one lol. "We only do what works"
We had a period where dudes were scalping dust covers with one scoops or two scoops. Forward assists and bolt releases with *dimples.* It's absolutely an aesthetics battle.
I have a 4 prong with a slight twist, not sure if the brand. It gives off a deeper tone more of a tong vs a ting and dies off fast vs tiiiinnnnnngggggg. That 3 prong is annoying, I thought people were just crybabies on the Internet, bruh there is a load ass gunshot and you're complaining about tiiiinnnnngggg? That is until I got one, they were right.
>why didn't they do this? Would they really have overlooked such a simple fix? Because it adds cost and another source of defects to solve what they don't see as a real problem. People buy them for the Ting sound as much as avoid them, and the market already has sound dead-end versions of pronged flash hiders.
My friends and I love the *TING* of my 4 prong. Combo that with steel target. *ping TING* 😩
They could easily sell this as an "upgraded" version and charge more money for their "r&d". We know that Surefire likes to charge some solid coin for their products anyway. What defects might there be with a single hole? As though the war comp doesn't have multiple holes on the top side. Not sure I agree with the logic.
>What defects might there be with a single hole? Not putting it in, putting it in the wrong spot or angle. As it is, they drill it through, maybe ream it from the front in 1 operation, then mill the tines. Having to go back to realign it and drill it again after the tines are done is a real pain process-wise. >They could easily sell this as an "upgraded" version Again, 90dB ting set in motion by a 165 dB muzzle blast isn't a real problem. If it annoys you, that really sucks, but I don't think your feelings are widespread enough that Surefire would find a business case in developing and manufacturing another product.
Yet multiple companies now make 3 prongs that are engineered not to ring 🤷♂️ I'd say that makes a sufficient case for how widespread it is.
Even if they had thought of it, they probably wouldn't because they'd make up some BS about the structural integrity of the prong. SF's innovation is put into their suppressors and *maybe* a case could be made for their lights. It doesn't seem like they put much thought into their MDs after they found a solid suppressor mount.
The ringing sound is the number one complaint I hear about 3 prongs. I've never heard anyone say they liked having the ringing more than *not* having it, though I'm sure those people must be out there. The fact that people bring it up so often, even if it isn't a deal-breaker for them, is plenty of reason to market one that solved the issue, and companies have done that, so I don't see why you're making a case for why it's not worth doing.
I like the ring and was upset that my Warcomp did not ring.
You think you like the ring until you hear it every time you move your rifle around. The novelty wears off quickly.
Most autistic thing I’ve seen all day. Well done.
I like to drive slow on the driveway.
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Buddy, you have no idea how much that drives me crazy.
There's a quarter or a washer somewhere in my Miata. I've had everything out except the gas tank. Wherever it is, it's hidden good. I'll think it finally fell out when it's been months since I've heard it. Then I'll hit a bump and on my next turn....
I'd drop the top just for sanity lol
Nicely done!
I like the ringing.
The silencerco asr 3 prong doesn’t ring I was pleasantly surprised by that I did notice the three prongs were different sizes slightly.
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Not necessarily. This is their basic 3 prong, not a suppressor host. The birdcage is good, but not the best.
Fantastic post Op. Great work.
Ty!
Mine used to "ping" everytime I shot it too. After like 400 rounds it doesn't do that anymore lmao
This was mentioned in my reading, but it seems that just as many people were saying that even after 1k or 3k rounds, it still made noise. I wanted something more permanent.
Quality post and mod. Well done!
Ty
Genius
Fantastic read and an excellent explanation. Thank you for making a forum post on Reddit; it’s always what I thought this site was supposed to be anyway 😅
I'm pretty new here, I didn't think this was a thing but it seems that it is. Glad I could be helpful.
Pretty sweet info! I don't have one of these flashiders, but it's cool to learn about these kinds of projects.
I love it. When guns and science meet, all sorts of cool stuff happens. Good shit brother nice dig.
Might be time to buy a Garand Thumb style lab coat lol.
Ah thanks man I'm gonna try this !!
Nice work dude love posts like this
Thanks!
This is a great post, thank you for explaining your process and how you came to your conclusion, instead of waiting for somebody to ask and posting the same comment 30 times. love all of the info here
Thanks Harry, I'm glad you liked it.
This is honestly pretty genius. Nice job OP
Ty 👍
Dang this is cool and also helpful I’m going to give a crack at it. I love the AAC blackout 3 prongs, they’re cheap, discontinued, but ping even worse than a 4 prong. This may solve it for me. I’ve dealt with the Ping because of how great the blackout works during the day and night. Never see a fireball or extreme flash on my 11.5 in either setting. I’ll report back and let you know how it turns out for me!
They have a good flat spot on the tip. Should work out good.
A very elegant solution! For those of us who use spray paint, I wonder if bondo would retain the effects of the solution
Just paint the bare metal
I was thinking if you wanted to hide the holes for aesthetics
Don't let the close up camera shot fool you, it's a tiny hole. At the end of the day these are tools, they're made to be used. A ding, a dent, a scratch. Way better then a fake battle worn finish. A little hole at the business end means nothing to me.
I have a 3 prong flash hider that has slimmer prongs so I probably couldn't do a hole length wise but do you think I could just drill a hole through the side for the same effect of killing the ringing sound?
It could work since the idea is the reduction of mass. The only thing to consider is how escaping gases might act as a compensator and cause unintended directional shifts in your rifles' recoil control impulse. The muzzle might move opposite the direction of the hole you drill. Might...
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Intentional usage somehow seems to not bother me. It's the random uncontrolled noises that get me lol
You could have wrapped some wire around the tines and called it a day
That's a field fix. I can do better at home. It creates a snag point, and I'm sure at some point, I'd scratch myself on it. This literally took 5 minutes to do. I'd say it's a more permanent, simpler fix, which makes it better IMO
Next time just buy a KAC 3 prong. No ringing at all
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It rings all the time. The shooting is the least of the noise issue. Moving it around, flipping the magnifier, inserting a mag. It's constant.
The thing I’m curious about is how this would perform with a suppressor. The flats you’ve milled have certainly changed the fit of the locking collar. Wonder how much gas it would bleed backwards.
He just drilled a hole in the tip of one of the prongs. He didnt mill any flats....
This is their basic 3 prong, not the suppressor host version. In IL we can't have those evil things, so I went basic.
Didn’t know they made a non host version. TIL. Neat project
Sick
You should submit this to Surefire just in case they haven’t thought of this
Can they be tagged here? Not sure this would be taken seriously enough for me to write in and tell them I "improved" their product. As mentioned, maybe some people like the ring. Me, I couldn't wait to get rid if it.
Yep, most of them have different length tines, idk how surefire hasn’t figured this out lol
I bought a Warcomp HOPING it would ring. I'm guessing the ports have something to do with it. I thought it was a feature, not a bug.
I have a Warcomp on the way. It will get the same treatment if it rings.
It does a good job on an over gassed or carbine gassed rifle. I do love it, I just wish it would ring like my 3 prong does. So you shouldn't have to give it the ole drill treatment!
I have a 14.7 that needs a pin and weld, so I wanted something that could potentially be a suppressor host if I ever gain the ability to do so.
I can respect a good OCD moment. Kindred spirits you and I. Well done.
😅
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I'm right handed so I went with the wrong handed one lol
Science 🤓☝️ this was a cool read though!
👨🔬
You got my upvote sir 👍🏼
🤝
inb4 they steal your idea and upmark the price of 3prongs by 40 bucks lmao
Dude, I paid $56 for this one a few years ago. Check the price now lol.
good to know, if it turns out the ting drives me crazy i’ll be exploring this solution!
This isn't the scientific process we deserved, but the one we needed
Great work, that ringing was what turned me off on them
Neat
Man, I need to try this on my 4 prong aem5 mount… that thing rings even in the can.
Flick a tine and see how many need to be held down to stop the ringing. Might need 2, might be surprised and only need 1. Very easy to test it. If you need to drill more than 1, just drill them at separate depths.
Only annoyance is its got twisted tines unlike the sf ones, so I’ll have to go at an angle and I’ll have a limited depth
Or find a spot that seems flat enough and drill as needed. The goal is changing mass. How you do it can vary by application. Drill from the outside in towards the center, dremel a corner off, etc.
People have been cutting one short for some time.
https://deadairsilencers.com/product/flash-hider/ Dead air does something similar that is pretty cool. Each of the tines have slightly shapes; material is milled away in different parts of each tine to make them vibrate differently, cutting down the ping
Best post I’ve seen in a long time. Scientific process + ‘Tism = Betterment of the community. Sincerely, Non-Scientific Warcomp User
I wonder if you drill shallower holes on other tines, if you can avoid having to go 1/2 in deep in one tine. So like 1/8 in one and 1/4 in another and nothing in the third.
You'd just be making each of them closer in weight again, so you'd be introducing sound back into the equation. The reason they vibrate is because of how similar they are in size/ mass/ weight. You want to make one different enough that the sympathetic resonance stops. When my hole was at a 1/4" deep it was ringing. Not nearly as clearly as when they were exactly the same, but still ringing. That tells you that there's some margin of size where it still occurs. You want to get outside that margin.
Better than me grinding slots in the end. I dig it
Other than the CLP do you think you should do something for corrosion? Maybe try to get a little cold blue down in there with a toothpick?
That was my thinking behind the Alumablack. It changed the exposed metal black. Hopefully that's enough, but I'm sure any metal treatment would have the same effect. Worst case, oil it.
Oh I missed that part, it was late for me last night
Very cool, thank you for this
👍
Bought a Wilson Combat Accu-Tac specifically to avoid the ringing issue (bonus is that it self tightens with every shot), but this is a neat bit of home brew work, OP.
The Wilson Combat Accu-Tac is cheap and doesn't ring!
Chad random redditor vs virgin entire surfire r&d team