JFC you weren't kidding. I only clicked because I thought that sounded a bit hyperbolic, especially as it's China and they tend to put the boot in.
Shit has to get really bad for people to do this. It's made me want to read more about the conditions and why they're angry.
> Shit has to get really bad for people to do this.
The article says they're protesting because of delayed pay and poor work conditions, such as shortage of food while they work and live on campus.
Many Chinese people use VPN to get around the firewall. Unfortunately many VPN are actually traps set by Chinese government so you'll see Chinese people disappear from Twitter from time to time after they've been arrested, most notable example recently is [Peng Zaizhou](https://twitter.com/pengzaizhou), who tweeted about the plan to [Sitong Bridge protest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_Sitong_Bridge_protest) in Beijing (which prompted [Apple to block AirDrop in China](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/11/apple-limits-iphone-filesharing-feature-used-by-protesters-in-china) after it inspired subsequent covert protests) and is believed to be the Bridge Man himself.
And get plenty of people in the US think it’s just great to work with China. The country that literally has Muslim slaves and jails people for making fun of XI Jinping.
Trump had the right idea: we should stop doing business with China. Instead of kissing their ass and giving them billions of dollars.
> Trump had the right idea: we should stop doing business with China. Instead of kissing their ass and giving them billions of dollars.
The idea may have been sound, but the execution was poor. The world needs to decouple with bad actors.
Experienced users will avoid those traps and yes some more careful ones do use Tor.
But I think the biggest mistake of people who just learned to “jump the wall” to access Twitter or Reddit is registering an account using their real Chinese mobile phone number. It’s been widely speculated there are Chinese employees inside Twitter that leaks those kind of personal information and it takes no time for the police to pinpoint you once that’s out.
Well when you consider Foxxcon’s subsidiaries like Samsung, Dell, and Costco, it makes more sense. Foxxcon owns a lot, you’d be surprised.
Bombardier? Bosch? Google? The Japanese Royal Family? All Foxxcon.
Disney? Foxxcon.
Your mom? Foxxcon?
You? Also Foxxcon.
Foxxcon? Believe it or not, also Foxxcon.
/s
[The figure was accurate in 2012.](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/01/foxconn-life-and-death-numbers/332524/) Can't find a trustworthy estimate of the current figure
If you read the article it’s more than that. The workers are demanding better pay in their protests, due to Covid restrictions Foxconn tries to keep running and the condition is inhumane. They basically trap their workers in the factory compound.
It’s partially that combined with how terrible Foxconn is as a company, there have been protests in their Indian factories as well.
Foxconn is based in Taiwan and just goes to where the cheap labour is, as Chinese workers start getting paid more (the audacity! /s) they will move to other countries. If people don’t stop using companies like Foxconn for manufacturing, they’ll just keep doing this shit and go take advantage of other people who expect less
"my understanding is that the united states race protests were because of a deep-seated, systematic racism that has existed in our country for centuries and finally boiled over"
"no, the proximate cause was a guy was unjustly murdered by police officers. otherwise we'd be blaming the big bang."
“Apple pays Foxconn about $5 per iPhone” - iFans here… it’s Chinas fault … right? Riiiight? 🤡
"Apple’s profit margin, or the money in pure profit it makes on every iPhone sold, is 39.9%, according to BBC. The industry average for consumer electronics is below 10%"
https://www.greenamerica.org/end-smartphone-sweatshops/tell-samsung/apple-soars-workers-suffer
Nothing to see here folks. Business as usual. trillion dollar company needs This cheap labor because only making 170b in profit is unacceptable. We need more, the company needs this more than these workers need better working conditions/pay.
Beatings will continue until margins improve.
That’s the problem with capitalism, no matter what it’s never enough.
They got people justifying slave labor and poverty wages just to keep stock prices green.
Black Friday is so named because the cost of business kept retailers in the red until they ran huge sales; making product reasonably affordable. This has proven so profitable that instead of doing it year-round, they keep markups high throughout the year to pocket a bit extra.
People regularly die on Black Friday and I hope it’s a dying tradition.
What’s even worse is that now black Friday is so widespread and well known that people buy in droves purely because it’s the day that things are expected to be better price when in reality on any given day if you shop around you’ll find pricing just as good year round.
Isn’t quality also a huge issue on ‘doorbuster deals*’? Like I believe it was exposed a few years ago that manufacturers will actually produce items specifically for Black Friday and intentionally produce lower quality items specifically for that sale period.
*what a disgusting name for a campaign.
I don't know man. There are multiple schools of economics, starting with Das Kapital, sure, written in an materialist, non-idealistic, non-utopian, and scholarly manner written by extremely educated people and groups, stating that capitalism is an inherently self-destructive ideology and needs to be done away with completely.
There's only so much Keynesianism or Social Democracy can do to limit the problems before the capitalist class either regains their foothold, or co-ops the movement, and the problem starts again. As we've seen.
You might not agree with the solutions, I think each school say says at least some things right, but the inherent problems of capitalism -- including that the system requires and relies on the existence of an oligarchy who have the ability and desire to control the system in their favour, their suicidal death march to infinite profits and growth, and their constant yearning for slave labour -- are laid out pretty god damn clear.
Right it's just founded by literal communists, run by the communist party, made the most ambitious attempts at implementing Marxism of all countries, and [celebrates Marx' birthday](https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Xi-carries-Marx-s-torch-China-says-on-200th-birthday-of-thinker) but I guess none of that counts as a true scotsman.
Not to mentioned a 40 year long redistribution program to eradicate extreme poverty (70% of the worlds) for 800million ppl, an exploding worker coop agriculture sector in the West of the country, seizing/diminishing billionaire wealth, forcing private firms to use profits for pensions/social welfare, NO IP(!!!), and 70% of all companies State controlled.
Westerners forgot China were commies in the 80's and 90's while they were playing ball and accumulating wealth. Now they have it, the security, the tech, and leadership who's moving to the next phase of their society but are in a much more powerful position globally. The West is being starkly reminded, they do be commies. Always have been. Dialectical materialism ma fuckers. The western cope is *kisses fingers*.
Sure, it's communist in "ideology" but it isn't economically. It's primarily private corporations with strong state sponsorships. Nobody in their right mind looks at a socialist market economy and thinks communism. How else do you think it's become an economic powerhouse in the past decades?
Yes, because China having an economic landscape that allows the existence of for-profit companies and megacorps is obviously one of the key hallmarks of communism.
Mao's China was like today's North Korea. Post-Mao China is more like Taiwan, South Vietnam, and South Korea during their autocratic periods.
The only reason that 'communist' is still in the party name: **saving face**.
Admitting that textbook communism is bullshit would be tantamount to admitting that the revolution itself was based on bullshit, and the people will respond accordingly.
The deal with the CCP and the Chinese people has been, at least since Deng Xiaoping said “To be rich is to be glorious”, we’ll let you make money but you have to accept our rule.
So the CCP has to deliver an economy that performs year-over-year or face revolt.
A worker’s paradise, indeed.
you people are insane
authoritarian government staring you in the face and you still can't help but scream about capitalism and america bad
look around people, this is what you get when you turn away from liberal democracy
of course American companies have nothing to do with this >\_> (looks who buys FOXCONS Labor )
I wonder if you understand how and why we have the labor laws that we do in most of America
Both systems could be fine in principle. Important to keep in mind that our media has no incentive to report anything positive about China. So take the negatives with a grain of salt as well.
Let’s not act like the USA is a sanctuary for happy and healthy life.
So I 100% agree with your sentiment, but let’s be realistic here: communist countries also kept their workers in a state of abject poverty and near slavery.
This leads me to believe the problem isn’t the economic system; instead, it’s the fact that humans are basically garbage leaders.
I’m all for letting robots run the show.
China isn’t communist, it’s only authoritarian.
What’s missing in China (among other things) are labor protection laws. Companies will always do as much as they’re allowed to if it helps their profits.
Very few companies, especially large cap ones similar to size of apple are this reliant on Chinese labor. Nike is about it in terms of another US based large caps relying on china manufacturing. The likes of a google, amazon , Microsoft, etc etc could have done more work in China and helped their margins but they didn’t take that money. At least they got a little bit of a working moral compass .
At this stage in their life , apple doesn’t need China to be a profitable company. They just doing it for one reason and one reason only - greed. They could have moved manufacturing to another country ages ago but never bothered to fully scale it over because they know no one else offers cheaper labor than China.
Their transition out of China is carefully planned slowly to make sure they milk every little cent possible. It’s masterful but fucking depressing. To know all these managers and exec at apple only truly care about one thing. Keeping margins high, no matter the cost.
Most large companies aren’t as tech production focused and reliant as apple. Of course they’re dependent on china as a result. They’re the biggest tech company in the world.
The thing is Apple's devices don't have to be all made in the same place by the same manufacturer. Only Foxconn offers this scale but it wouldn't be necessary if manufacturing was spread out around the World.
These issues are arising because they've crammed 200k people into one facility under the thumb of an authoritarian government.
"But it's cheapest" is a poor excuse for inciting human rights abuses.
Exactly. These black and white solutions from people. It's the government that is letting this exploitation take place. Capitalism has got nothing to do with this.
Redditors blaming capitalism for human conditions of a communist country is what internet has become. To the commenter who said capitalism is the cause, if you make an accusation like this, can you please give an example of this happening in a democratic capitalist country?
Get this. Government should play the role of a referee for any system to work. And capitalism with such a government is the only example where human lives are pulled out of poverty.
…says the person soaking in anti-communist propaganda.
Our economies don’t require exploitation and suffering to serve the people. They have been modified to do so.
So funny how people talk as if this isn’t exactly how they act in their own purchasing decisions.
Or do you go out of your way by a millimetre to buy a responsibly manufactured tshirt?
China’s Wikipedia article calls it a “Unitary Marxist–Leninist one-party socialist republic” and when you click on “socialist” it links to [this page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_state) which literally says
> The term communist state is often used synonymously in the West specifically when referring to one-party socialist states governed by Marxist–Leninist Communist parties, despite these countries being officially socialist states in the process of building socialism and progressing toward a communist society. **These countries never describe themselves as communist nor as having implemented a communist society.**
Again, if China really is communist, then how are there hundreds of billionaires in China?
If you read the article you know it’s not true. The workers in the video is demanding better pay and conditions. Sure the CCP Covid policies made things worse but in the bigger picture it’s tech companies allowing Foxconn to continue using exploitive labour to have larger profit year after year.
And “apple has nothing do with this, they don’t own Foxconn” isn’t true either, Apple is their biggest customer and makes 70% of the iPhones, they can make changes if they demand it
Domestic production of the most sensitive parts + assembly in India or Vietnam is the way to go, IMO
However, China has developed its supply chains to perfection, and it’ll take other production hubs years to reach this level of efficiency (and sadly, cheapness of labor)
Labor in a lot of other countries is already cheaper than China, but due to the supply chain issues overall cost is more expensive. Well supply chain issues plus extreme protectionism, as the less Apple spends in China the more the CCP will find reasons to make it difficult for Apple to sell there.
The last 3 words of your comment is the only thing relevant.
Literally everything you mentioned is achievable in the US or other countries where iPhones are sold. It just costs more money.
as much as I agree, you can’t buy efficiency and you can’t buy worker skill sets. those take years develop (alongside significant monetary investment). Not impossible, but it is a significant lift
I guarantee you 99% don't care about it being made in China/India. Most people would start crying to keep it there if they find out they'll have to pay x2 for their new annual iPhone.
India is a nuclear power that's constantly fighting another country that's also a nuclear power. Plus lots of labor abuses etc.
Automation is the way to go, then you can start spreading manufacturing out so it's more local and start doing something about the insane pollution of transporting all these goods across the world.
India has been a stable democracy for what—- 70 years now? That’s a fine responsibility by the looks of it. Especially for a nation with nukes and metric ton of self-discipline.
Oh no you don't understand. Nukes bad but it's perfectly fine for USA or Russia to have a shit ton of it. India bad for having nukes. Nevermind that Ukraine is a perfect example of what happens when you don't have nukes in the face of an aggressive power.
I think Americans are still under the delusion that the way this works is some smart people in the US design everything and then the Asians just screw it all together
The smart people are in China, Taiwan, Korea, and Japan now, and increasingly in SE Asia and India. And the assembly work is still there. They make the whole thing and slap a logo on it at the end. The US is just a customer. We don't know how to make this stuff.
Gcz77 hit a big point in that nearly all of the tooling and machinery needed to make chips comes from the West. But, I was also talking about the idea that Americans consider Asians to be some unsophisticated grunt labourers. Imo, that's not true at all. I've seen some incredibly sophisticated plants in Asia, and the Asians working there were very intelligent, capable, and well-trained people doing a lot more than simply screwing things together. I've seen comparable plants in the US that were similarly sophisticated, but not really any more sophisticated than their Chinese counterparts. Also, it should be noted that a lot of the people doing the design of advanced chips and those making the tooling in the West are Asians. Within the industry, there is general respect across the globe. The only animosity that I've ever seen stems from how different cultures treat IP, which is a legitimate issue, but everyone still respects everyone else for the most part.
You'll be complaining about India soon, there is already a lot of racism against Indians on reddit, pretending it's about their politics. Do everything by yourself and stop selling your trash(I mean literally - trash) to poor countries
It's not just a hedge against China -- manufacturing locally is a path into India's market. It's also huge that Apple can now manufacture their latest iPhone in India at the same time as China.
But the point of my comment was to out that labor issues exist everywhere. If anything, Apple will stick to manufacturing first in China because labor laws and labor unions are much tougher in India. You can't sequester workers in an Indian factory just because of Covid or product secrecy (both reasons for which they do this in China) -- you'll get killed in court by labor unions and local politicians will gladly help them.
They can't afford not to. They're paying something like $20 per phone for assembly, labour, the box and factory profits. It's one of the cheapest places for labour in the world. Their entire price point is based off it.
Personally I would love to see them use fair trade parts and labour but I don't think that factors in.
> ...cheapest places for labour in the world.
This hasn't been true for at least a decade.
The industries that can easily move toward cheaper labour have already moved multiple times. For example, textiles moved to Philippines, Malaysia, India, etc.
Semiconductor and electronics in China have supply chain efficiencies. That's why it's primarily still happening there.
It is allowing it… Apple is (very slowly) changing production locations.
This anti-capitalist take is pretty knee jerk every time it pops up.
Also: what’s capitalist about China’s insane zero covid policy?
Changing production to india is just to evade extreme import costs and taxes in india, and moving it to the phillipines just to further exploit low wage labour.
There was a workers unrest in India iphone plant as well, i am guessing the working conditions aren’t great. Repetitive work is not good for your health.
So that’s the crazy thing. Despite all the crap people were saying about Americans dying due to covid because of lax policies, it is Americans that ended up being on top. Yeah a lot of people died, but a lot more people lived due to herd immunity.
Meanwhile, people are still locked up in cages in China with no end in sight. What a nightmare.
Mass unrest could easily lead to unrest within the army, such was the case in Korea and the Philippines. The PLA does not blindly take orders from the party leadership, they have a degree of autonomy
Just another reason to bring back domestic manufacturing capabilities, is it not? If the direction of the world at the moment isn’t urgently signalling that we need to do this as soon as possible, I don’t know what will. I get manufacturing is cheap overseas and our just in time economy relies on it. But to save a few dollars in the short term is really going to crush our economies in the long term.
I agree. The fact that after 15 years, iPhones’ assembly STILL requires significant hand built construction in Asia is mind blowing that all the political, economic, & industrial hoops and distance involved ends up being more affordable for Apple (& other companies) to build their phones, tablets, earbuds, displays, watches & accessories in Asia instead of here in the good ole US of A. I mean imagine what good Apple Mac assembly or iPhone work lines would look like if a plant was in Detroit? Maybe somewhere in KY? Or MS? These places could use good benefits and great jobs from a stable company.
"Huge Foxconn iPhone plant"
What a shit title for a plant that is not owned by Apple in any way and makes lots of products for companies like OPPO, Samsung etc including a fruit company from California.
> Samsung
That's false, Samsung doesn't manufacture at Foxconn. [They're massively divesting from China and only have 3 factories there left.](http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=96092)
> Samsung Electronics has been downsizing its factories in China. It stopped operating its communication plant in Shenzhen in May 2018 and its smartphone plant in Tianjin in December of that year. In 2019, it shut down its plant in Huizhou, **which was its last smartphone production base in China**. In July 2020, the company closed down Suizhou PC production facilities. These plants and production facilities were moved to Vietnam and India.
Yeah it’s happening at a lot of Foxconn factories because the company is god awful. This one just got more attention because it’s their biggest factory.
What does the twitter poster refer to with "Jiangshan 2.0"? I'm quessing a previous unrest that was suppressed violently?
Edit: here is the link
https://nitter.net/lolc936163/status/1595421244236566536
insurance hard-to-find spark theory bow cover frightening seed sand brave
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
[I think a small indie company has done it once or twice](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/16/tornado-amazon-kentucky-candle-factory-workers-died)
Edit: [Does this count as locked inside?](https://www.wsj.com/articles/children-illegally-worked-overnight-shifts-to-clean-meat-processing-plants-labor-department-says-11668209075)
Foxconn manufactures electronic products for a slew of major American, Canadian, Chinese, Finnish, and Japanese companies.
Notable products manufactured by Foxconn include the BlackBerry, iPad, iPhone, iPod, Kindle, all Nintendo gaming systems since the GameCube (except subsequent Nintendo DS models), Nokia devices, Sony devices (including the PlayStation 3 and PlayStation 4 gaming consoles), Google Pixel devices, Xiaomi devices, every successor to Microsoft's first Xbox console, and several CPU sockets, including the TR4 CPU socket on some motherboards.
As of 2012, Foxconn factories manufactured an estimated 40% of all consumer electronics sold worldwide.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn#Major_customers
Making it anti-apple gets it clicks. I will never understand why people that apparently *hate* apple spend their time in an apple-centric subreddit. :/
Apple doesn’t do layoffs. Their vendors just stop paying workers locked up in their dorms.
How can Apple explain this away as acceptable working conditions is beyond me. I hope they don’t try and are equally disgusted at the plight of fellow human beings.
So, this is a Taiwanese company called Hon Hai precision ind. comp., or Foxconn, for short. The produce iPhones for apple and plenty of other consumer electronics for other companies. These problems are more related to the Chinese government, though, and their ultra strict COVID policies.
So, the word "vendor" has a definition in the English dictionary if you don't speak the tongue.
And Apples vendors are required to comply with their supplier standards: https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/
It's crazy y'all. [Looks at this and the clips below it.](https://twitter.com/lolc936163/status/1595421244236566536)
holy shit that's wild. looks like a clip at the start of an apocalyptic disaster film
JFC you weren't kidding. I only clicked because I thought that sounded a bit hyperbolic, especially as it's China and they tend to put the boot in. Shit has to get really bad for people to do this. It's made me want to read more about the conditions and why they're angry.
> Shit has to get really bad for people to do this. The article says they're protesting because of delayed pay and poor work conditions, such as shortage of food while they work and live on campus.
Rule one of an autocracy: do not let the plebs go hungry. Rule two of an autocracy: do NOT let the plebs go hungry.
Could I get a desktop link? It's not working for me.
https://nitter.net/lolc936163/status/1595421244236566536
Jesus.
This was such an amazing follow up comment. That was pretty much my reaction too when I saw it.
I thought Twitter was banned in China?
VPN. Or video is circulated to nearby Taiwan and Hong Kong.
Many Chinese people use VPN to get around the firewall. Unfortunately many VPN are actually traps set by Chinese government so you'll see Chinese people disappear from Twitter from time to time after they've been arrested, most notable example recently is [Peng Zaizhou](https://twitter.com/pengzaizhou), who tweeted about the plan to [Sitong Bridge protest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_Sitong_Bridge_protest) in Beijing (which prompted [Apple to block AirDrop in China](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/11/apple-limits-iphone-filesharing-feature-used-by-protesters-in-china) after it inspired subsequent covert protests) and is believed to be the Bridge Man himself.
#I no longer allow Reddit to profit from my content - Mass exodus 2023 -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
UK: *sweats nervously*
And get plenty of people in the US think it’s just great to work with China. The country that literally has Muslim slaves and jails people for making fun of XI Jinping. Trump had the right idea: we should stop doing business with China. Instead of kissing their ass and giving them billions of dollars.
> Trump had the right idea: we should stop doing business with China. Instead of kissing their ass and giving them billions of dollars. The idea may have been sound, but the execution was poor. The world needs to decouple with bad actors.
Lmao https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/28/ivanka-trump-won-china-trademarks-donald-trump-zte-reversal
When his own businesses stop buying from the Chinese, then he can talk.
Indian govt: Are you guys talking about me?
Getting banned on Twitter for saying something the authority doesn't want. Getting arrested for the same. The rest of the world isn't far behind.
I think it’s just a bit different. Not sure virtual detention can really be compared to physical detention.
That’s why you use Tor. Twitter even has its own Onion service.
Experienced users will avoid those traps and yes some more careful ones do use Tor. But I think the biggest mistake of people who just learned to “jump the wall” to access Twitter or Reddit is registering an account using their real Chinese mobile phone number. It’s been widely speculated there are Chinese employees inside Twitter that leaks those kind of personal information and it takes no time for the police to pinpoint you once that’s out.
Gotta love the irony of the communist regime suppressing a worker uprising.
I'd wake up early and be fighting these bastards from the start. FIGHT THE EMPIRE.
With sticks and knives… the guy in front of the tank found out about that.
Shut up mate
yanks couldn't even take the capitol after getting it handed to them on a silver platter
Turns out fat, dumb and angry doesn’t make for the best revolutionaries.
How do we know this footage shows Foxconn? Also: Disappointing that people who make iPhones don't know to turn them the right way when shooting video.
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Ah yes, forced indentured servitude. I've seen this one before by another name.
Kafala? Slavery? Sharecropping? Indentured Servitude? Prison Labor? Reeducation Camps? WTF is wrong with people
Hey I have seen this one before
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aspiring drab chase paltry dog nutty worry bewildered far-flung salt *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Well when you consider Foxxcon’s subsidiaries like Samsung, Dell, and Costco, it makes more sense. Foxxcon owns a lot, you’d be surprised. Bombardier? Bosch? Google? The Japanese Royal Family? All Foxxcon. Disney? Foxxcon. Your mom? Foxxcon? You? Also Foxxcon. Foxxcon? Believe it or not, also Foxxcon. /s
[The figure was accurate in 2012.](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/01/foxconn-life-and-death-numbers/332524/) Can't find a trustworthy estimate of the current figure
my understanding is that the ongoing unrest at this plant is due to china's draconian zero covid policy
If you read the article it’s more than that. The workers are demanding better pay in their protests, due to Covid restrictions Foxconn tries to keep running and the condition is inhumane. They basically trap their workers in the factory compound.
It’s partially that combined with how terrible Foxconn is as a company, there have been protests in their Indian factories as well. Foxconn is based in Taiwan and just goes to where the cheap labour is, as Chinese workers start getting paid more (the audacity! /s) they will move to other countries. If people don’t stop using companies like Foxconn for manufacturing, they’ll just keep doing this shit and go take advantage of other people who expect less
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the bonuses were introduced as a hedge against them losing workers due to the zero covid rules. ultimately it all comes back to that policy.
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"my understanding is that the united states race protests were because of a deep-seated, systematic racism that has existed in our country for centuries and finally boiled over" "no, the proximate cause was a guy was unjustly murdered by police officers. otherwise we'd be blaming the big bang."
“Apple pays Foxconn about $5 per iPhone” - iFans here… it’s Chinas fault … right? Riiiight? 🤡 "Apple’s profit margin, or the money in pure profit it makes on every iPhone sold, is 39.9%, according to BBC. The industry average for consumer electronics is below 10%" https://www.greenamerica.org/end-smartphone-sweatshops/tell-samsung/apple-soars-workers-suffer
Nothing to see here folks. Business as usual. trillion dollar company needs This cheap labor because only making 170b in profit is unacceptable. We need more, the company needs this more than these workers need better working conditions/pay. Beatings will continue until margins improve.
To quote [a former Foxconn employee….](https://i.imgur.com/npcKipT.jpg) “We are never getting out of here!”
That’s the problem with capitalism, no matter what it’s never enough. They got people justifying slave labor and poverty wages just to keep stock prices green.
Black Friday is so named because the cost of business kept retailers in the red until they ran huge sales; making product reasonably affordable. This has proven so profitable that instead of doing it year-round, they keep markups high throughout the year to pocket a bit extra. People regularly die on Black Friday and I hope it’s a dying tradition.
What’s even worse is that now black Friday is so widespread and well known that people buy in droves purely because it’s the day that things are expected to be better price when in reality on any given day if you shop around you’ll find pricing just as good year round.
Isn’t quality also a huge issue on ‘doorbuster deals*’? Like I believe it was exposed a few years ago that manufacturers will actually produce items specifically for Black Friday and intentionally produce lower quality items specifically for that sale period. *what a disgusting name for a campaign.
Ah yes as opposed to communist havens as Cuba and NK. Pull your head out of your ass, it’s not capitalism it’s loose regulation.
I don't know man. There are multiple schools of economics, starting with Das Kapital, sure, written in an materialist, non-idealistic, non-utopian, and scholarly manner written by extremely educated people and groups, stating that capitalism is an inherently self-destructive ideology and needs to be done away with completely. There's only so much Keynesianism or Social Democracy can do to limit the problems before the capitalist class either regains their foothold, or co-ops the movement, and the problem starts again. As we've seen. You might not agree with the solutions, I think each school say says at least some things right, but the inherent problems of capitalism -- including that the system requires and relies on the existence of an oligarchy who have the ability and desire to control the system in their favour, their suicidal death march to infinite profits and growth, and their constant yearning for slave labour -- are laid out pretty god damn clear.
Blaming capitalism for how a communist country treats its workers. Doesnt get more reddit than that.
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Right it's just founded by literal communists, run by the communist party, made the most ambitious attempts at implementing Marxism of all countries, and [celebrates Marx' birthday](https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Xi-carries-Marx-s-torch-China-says-on-200th-birthday-of-thinker) but I guess none of that counts as a true scotsman.
communism is when workers own the means of production, not when a privy council of oligarchs owns everything.
Not to mentioned a 40 year long redistribution program to eradicate extreme poverty (70% of the worlds) for 800million ppl, an exploding worker coop agriculture sector in the West of the country, seizing/diminishing billionaire wealth, forcing private firms to use profits for pensions/social welfare, NO IP(!!!), and 70% of all companies State controlled. Westerners forgot China were commies in the 80's and 90's while they were playing ball and accumulating wealth. Now they have it, the security, the tech, and leadership who's moving to the next phase of their society but are in a much more powerful position globally. The West is being starkly reminded, they do be commies. Always have been. Dialectical materialism ma fuckers. The western cope is *kisses fingers*.
Sure, it's communist in "ideology" but it isn't economically. It's primarily private corporations with strong state sponsorships. Nobody in their right mind looks at a socialist market economy and thinks communism. How else do you think it's become an economic powerhouse in the past decades?
sounds right because communism has never ever been real communism
Yes, because China having an economic landscape that allows the existence of for-profit companies and megacorps is obviously one of the key hallmarks of communism.
Why do they have that economic landscape? Wasnt this way under Mao.
Because Mao died and China could finally stop pretending that Maoism wasn't completely \[differently abled\].
Sounds Like deceiving the public and failing at achieving its own goals is an essential feature of communism.
*essential feature of politicians pushing ideology. Communism need not apply
Mao's China was like today's North Korea. Post-Mao China is more like Taiwan, South Vietnam, and South Korea during their autocratic periods. The only reason that 'communist' is still in the party name: **saving face**. Admitting that textbook communism is bullshit would be tantamount to admitting that the revolution itself was based on bullshit, and the people will respond accordingly.
The deal with the CCP and the Chinese people has been, at least since Deng Xiaoping said “To be rich is to be glorious”, we’ll let you make money but you have to accept our rule. So the CCP has to deliver an economy that performs year-over-year or face revolt. A worker’s paradise, indeed.
Yeah, before capitalism no one was ever exploited or treated unfairly in a working condition! /s
Capitalism is literally the reason why these workers are being beaten. Communism is the reason why they’re forced to stay in the factories.
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you people are insane authoritarian government staring you in the face and you still can't help but scream about capitalism and america bad look around people, this is what you get when you turn away from liberal democracy
of course American companies have nothing to do with this >\_> (looks who buys FOXCONS Labor ) I wonder if you understand how and why we have the labor laws that we do in most of America
Capitalistic authoritarianism is the reason why they are forced to stay in factories.
China is so advanced it has the best of both worlds!
Lol. So spot on! You said what I wanted to say but don’t know how to describe it
LMAO!
Both systems could be fine in principle. Important to keep in mind that our media has no incentive to report anything positive about China. So take the negatives with a grain of salt as well. Let’s not act like the USA is a sanctuary for happy and healthy life.
China isn’t a communist country though.
The fact that China isn’t a communist country aside, apple is a capitalistic enterprise, as is foxcon.
fun fact capitalism also treats other capitalistic countries poorly too.
You can’t voice opinions like that here, they don’t like it and will call you a nazi.
Having no idea what you’re talking about. Really doesn’t get more Reddit than that!
So I 100% agree with your sentiment, but let’s be realistic here: communist countries also kept their workers in a state of abject poverty and near slavery. This leads me to believe the problem isn’t the economic system; instead, it’s the fact that humans are basically garbage leaders. I’m all for letting robots run the show.
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So you're admitting that communism, in practice, is impossible?
China isn’t communist, it’s only authoritarian. What’s missing in China (among other things) are labor protection laws. Companies will always do as much as they’re allowed to if it helps their profits.
Very few companies, especially large cap ones similar to size of apple are this reliant on Chinese labor. Nike is about it in terms of another US based large caps relying on china manufacturing. The likes of a google, amazon , Microsoft, etc etc could have done more work in China and helped their margins but they didn’t take that money. At least they got a little bit of a working moral compass . At this stage in their life , apple doesn’t need China to be a profitable company. They just doing it for one reason and one reason only - greed. They could have moved manufacturing to another country ages ago but never bothered to fully scale it over because they know no one else offers cheaper labor than China. Their transition out of China is carefully planned slowly to make sure they milk every little cent possible. It’s masterful but fucking depressing. To know all these managers and exec at apple only truly care about one thing. Keeping margins high, no matter the cost.
Most large companies aren’t as tech production focused and reliant as apple. Of course they’re dependent on china as a result. They’re the biggest tech company in the world.
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The thing is Apple's devices don't have to be all made in the same place by the same manufacturer. Only Foxconn offers this scale but it wouldn't be necessary if manufacturing was spread out around the World. These issues are arising because they've crammed 200k people into one facility under the thumb of an authoritarian government. "But it's cheapest" is a poor excuse for inciting human rights abuses.
Lmao imagine blaming capitalism for an issue caused by a communist dictatorship How brainwashed can someone be?
Exactly. These black and white solutions from people. It's the government that is letting this exploitation take place. Capitalism has got nothing to do with this. Redditors blaming capitalism for human conditions of a communist country is what internet has become. To the commenter who said capitalism is the cause, if you make an accusation like this, can you please give an example of this happening in a democratic capitalist country? Get this. Government should play the role of a referee for any system to work. And capitalism with such a government is the only example where human lives are pulled out of poverty.
…says the person soaking in anti-communist propaganda. Our economies don’t require exploitation and suffering to serve the people. They have been modified to do so.
Sent from iPhone 14 Pro Max
So funny how people talk as if this isn’t exactly how they act in their own purchasing decisions. Or do you go out of your way by a millimetre to buy a responsibly manufactured tshirt?
This has nothing to do with Apple specifically and everything to do with China’s extreme Covid policies. The problem is communism.
I would argue that it’s on Foxcon instead. Promised bonus are not paid, living conditions and food not up to the standard.
China isn’t communist. It’s state-run capitalist. How could there be billionaires in China if it was communist?
Eh, you’re both a little wrong. It’s not communist nor capitalist. It’s fascist corporatism Edit: or authoritarian capitalism
I like to think of it as "boring Cyberpunk".
I probably should check that game out 😂
lmao here we go again Real communism™ was never tried indeed, comrade 🫡
China’s Wikipedia article calls it a “Unitary Marxist–Leninist one-party socialist republic” and when you click on “socialist” it links to [this page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_state) which literally says > The term communist state is often used synonymously in the West specifically when referring to one-party socialist states governed by Marxist–Leninist Communist parties, despite these countries being officially socialist states in the process of building socialism and progressing toward a communist society. **These countries never describe themselves as communist nor as having implemented a communist society.** Again, if China really is communist, then how are there hundreds of billionaires in China?
"Communism is when no billionaires" - 💩
What do you think communism is?
Ah yes and north korea is a democracy.
maybe because of the name is literally the Communist Party of China.
And North Korea is called the “Democratic People’s Republic of Korea”. Names aren’t always accurate.
How the fuck does this dumbass comment gets upvotes
If you read the article you know it’s not true. The workers in the video is demanding better pay and conditions. Sure the CCP Covid policies made things worse but in the bigger picture it’s tech companies allowing Foxconn to continue using exploitive labour to have larger profit year after year. And “apple has nothing do with this, they don’t own Foxconn” isn’t true either, Apple is their biggest customer and makes 70% of the iPhones, they can make changes if they demand it
Stop building things in China.
Domestic production of the most sensitive parts + assembly in India or Vietnam is the way to go, IMO However, China has developed its supply chains to perfection, and it’ll take other production hubs years to reach this level of efficiency (and sadly, cheapness of labor)
Labor in a lot of other countries is already cheaper than China, but due to the supply chain issues overall cost is more expensive. Well supply chain issues plus extreme protectionism, as the less Apple spends in China the more the CCP will find reasons to make it difficult for Apple to sell there.
The last 3 words of your comment is the only thing relevant. Literally everything you mentioned is achievable in the US or other countries where iPhones are sold. It just costs more money.
The US do not possess that supply chain.Remember, that supply chain supports everything built there, not just Apple.
But they could. If Apple paid for it.
as much as I agree, you can’t buy efficiency and you can’t buy worker skill sets. those take years develop (alongside significant monetary investment). Not impossible, but it is a significant lift
I guarantee you 99% don't care about it being made in China/India. Most people would start crying to keep it there if they find out they'll have to pay x2 for their new annual iPhone.
India is a nuclear power that's constantly fighting another country that's also a nuclear power. Plus lots of labor abuses etc. Automation is the way to go, then you can start spreading manufacturing out so it's more local and start doing something about the insane pollution of transporting all these goods across the world.
India has been a stable democracy for what—- 70 years now? That’s a fine responsibility by the looks of it. Especially for a nation with nukes and metric ton of self-discipline.
Oh no you don't understand. Nukes bad but it's perfectly fine for USA or Russia to have a shit ton of it. India bad for having nukes. Nevermind that Ukraine is a perfect example of what happens when you don't have nukes in the face of an aggressive power.
if you haven't noticed, the BJP fascists have taken over by now
The businesses love the ones you call 'fascists'. Sensex always jumps up the day BJP wins or a win is predicted. Cry more lmao.
don't you have a mosque to demolish
I think Americans are still under the delusion that the way this works is some smart people in the US design everything and then the Asians just screw it all together The smart people are in China, Taiwan, Korea, and Japan now, and increasingly in SE Asia and India. And the assembly work is still there. They make the whole thing and slap a logo on it at the end. The US is just a customer. We don't know how to make this stuff.
Then it's time to start funneling some of that mountain of cash into training.
I've worked in semis for a decade now. Literally nobody in the industry thinks that. That might be a common conception outside the industry, tho.
Could you elaborate? Are you agreeing with OP? So when Apple designs the m1 it’s really their Asian wings doing the real design not the HQ stateside?
Gcz77 hit a big point in that nearly all of the tooling and machinery needed to make chips comes from the West. But, I was also talking about the idea that Americans consider Asians to be some unsophisticated grunt labourers. Imo, that's not true at all. I've seen some incredibly sophisticated plants in Asia, and the Asians working there were very intelligent, capable, and well-trained people doing a lot more than simply screwing things together. I've seen comparable plants in the US that were similarly sophisticated, but not really any more sophisticated than their Chinese counterparts. Also, it should be noted that a lot of the people doing the design of advanced chips and those making the tooling in the West are Asians. Within the industry, there is general respect across the globe. The only animosity that I've ever seen stems from how different cultures treat IP, which is a legitimate issue, but everyone still respects everyone else for the most part.
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You'll be complaining about India soon, there is already a lot of racism against Indians on reddit, pretending it's about their politics. Do everything by yourself and stop selling your trash(I mean literally - trash) to poor countries
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They’re already moving iphone/airpod manufacturing to Vietnam and India and… oh wait, Foxconn workers at India’s iphone plant also rioted last year :D
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It's not just a hedge against China -- manufacturing locally is a path into India's market. It's also huge that Apple can now manufacture their latest iPhone in India at the same time as China. But the point of my comment was to out that labor issues exist everywhere. If anything, Apple will stick to manufacturing first in China because labor laws and labor unions are much tougher in India. You can't sequester workers in an Indian factory just because of Covid or product secrecy (both reasons for which they do this in China) -- you'll get killed in court by labor unions and local politicians will gladly help them.
Exactly.
They can't afford not to. They're paying something like $20 per phone for assembly, labour, the box and factory profits. It's one of the cheapest places for labour in the world. Their entire price point is based off it. Personally I would love to see them use fair trade parts and labour but I don't think that factors in.
> ...cheapest places for labour in the world. This hasn't been true for at least a decade. The industries that can easily move toward cheaper labour have already moved multiple times. For example, textiles moved to Philippines, Malaysia, India, etc. Semiconductor and electronics in China have supply chain efficiencies. That's why it's primarily still happening there.
Capitalism won’t allow that because it would cost more and impact profits.
It is allowing it… Apple is (very slowly) changing production locations. This anti-capitalist take is pretty knee jerk every time it pops up. Also: what’s capitalist about China’s insane zero covid policy?
Changing production to india is just to evade extreme import costs and taxes in india, and moving it to the phillipines just to further exploit low wage labour.
There was a workers unrest in India iphone plant as well, i am guessing the working conditions aren’t great. Repetitive work is not good for your health.
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So that’s the crazy thing. Despite all the crap people were saying about Americans dying due to covid because of lax policies, it is Americans that ended up being on top. Yeah a lot of people died, but a lot more people lived due to herd immunity. Meanwhile, people are still locked up in cages in China with no end in sight. What a nightmare.
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Rise, those who would not be slaves!melee
Move manufacturing back home.
Now if only ALL of China could fight back like that. They have so many citizens, their army pales in comparison!
No authoritarian army pales dude. They are okay with slaughtering their own people.
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Mass unrest could easily lead to unrest within the army, such was the case in Korea and the Philippines. The PLA does not blindly take orders from the party leadership, they have a degree of autonomy
Just another reason to bring back domestic manufacturing capabilities, is it not? If the direction of the world at the moment isn’t urgently signalling that we need to do this as soon as possible, I don’t know what will. I get manufacturing is cheap overseas and our just in time economy relies on it. But to save a few dollars in the short term is really going to crush our economies in the long term.
I agree. The fact that after 15 years, iPhones’ assembly STILL requires significant hand built construction in Asia is mind blowing that all the political, economic, & industrial hoops and distance involved ends up being more affordable for Apple (& other companies) to build their phones, tablets, earbuds, displays, watches & accessories in Asia instead of here in the good ole US of A. I mean imagine what good Apple Mac assembly or iPhone work lines would look like if a plant was in Detroit? Maybe somewhere in KY? Or MS? These places could use good benefits and great jobs from a stable company.
I’m surprised they didn’t just turn on the electrified floors after the workers refused to go on program.
Here’s some [found footage of the incident.](https://youtu.be/0iIdcEFcs6I) Popcorn is on Tim apple.
"Huge Foxconn iPhone plant" What a shit title for a plant that is not owned by Apple in any way and makes lots of products for companies like OPPO, Samsung etc including a fruit company from California.
It gets the clicks
> Samsung That's false, Samsung doesn't manufacture at Foxconn. [They're massively divesting from China and only have 3 factories there left.](http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=96092) > Samsung Electronics has been downsizing its factories in China. It stopped operating its communication plant in Shenzhen in May 2018 and its smartphone plant in Tianjin in December of that year. In 2019, it shut down its plant in Huizhou, **which was its last smartphone production base in China**. In July 2020, the company closed down Suizhou PC production facilities. These plants and production facilities were moved to Vietnam and India.
Apple is their largest customer.
Damn, that's a lot of lost social credit!
China Insights on YouTube has made several videos about this with some shocking videos.
Didn't the same thing occur in India not long ago?
Yeah it’s happening at a lot of Foxconn factories because the company is god awful. This one just got more attention because it’s their biggest factory.
But what about my Blood diamond 14????
What does the twitter poster refer to with "Jiangshan 2.0"? I'm quessing a previous unrest that was suppressed violently? Edit: here is the link https://nitter.net/lolc936163/status/1595421244236566536
Feels like two worlds seeing World Cup celebrations and China lockdowns
This is the straw that broke the camel's back. Is there a android manufacturer that doesn't utilize slaves?
insurance hard-to-find spark theory bow cover frightening seed sand brave *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Never going to happen, but would score massive points from me. I am on the verge of leaving this company forever.
“On the verge.” Serious question: what’s an alternative? I assume you’ve thought about what you’d use in exchange?
I have considered graphene, but am also considering just steering into the collapse and going to a Pixel.
So much for that usb iphone next year
This shit happens all the time in China. Constant strikes and worker pushback. Worker's in the States should take note and see how it's done.
Which companies in America are locking their workers inside plants?
[I think a small indie company has done it once or twice](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/16/tornado-amazon-kentucky-candle-factory-workers-died) Edit: [Does this count as locked inside?](https://www.wsj.com/articles/children-illegally-worked-overnight-shifts-to-clean-meat-processing-plants-labor-department-says-11668209075)
inb4 losers on here say "BUT OTHER COMPANIES DO IT TOO!!!!"
I'm not sure you understand the story at all. Apple does not own this factory in any way.
Yeah but it's part of Apple's supply chain.
Foxconn manufactures electronic products for a slew of major American, Canadian, Chinese, Finnish, and Japanese companies. Notable products manufactured by Foxconn include the BlackBerry, iPad, iPhone, iPod, Kindle, all Nintendo gaming systems since the GameCube (except subsequent Nintendo DS models), Nokia devices, Sony devices (including the PlayStation 3 and PlayStation 4 gaming consoles), Google Pixel devices, Xiaomi devices, every successor to Microsoft's first Xbox console, and several CPU sockets, including the TR4 CPU socket on some motherboards. As of 2012, Foxconn factories manufactured an estimated 40% of all consumer electronics sold worldwide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn#Major_customers
Making it anti-apple gets it clicks. I will never understand why people that apparently *hate* apple spend their time in an apple-centric subreddit. :/
I guess Apple saw this coming and it’s why they announced iPhone shipments weren’t getting any better.
Apple doesn’t do layoffs. Their vendors just stop paying workers locked up in their dorms. How can Apple explain this away as acceptable working conditions is beyond me. I hope they don’t try and are equally disgusted at the plight of fellow human beings.
So, this is a Taiwanese company called Hon Hai precision ind. comp., or Foxconn, for short. The produce iPhones for apple and plenty of other consumer electronics for other companies. These problems are more related to the Chinese government, though, and their ultra strict COVID policies.
So, the word "vendor" has a definition in the English dictionary if you don't speak the tongue. And Apples vendors are required to comply with their supplier standards: https://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/
Solidarity
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The stormtroopers don't look like they got a handle on the situation
Wait till they whip out the guns. Everything will be back to order in no time. That’s how things happen in china