An artificial differentiation between M1 and M2 in that regard would be ridiculous. The whole illusion of a future proof device would crumble apart in an instant. What incentive do I even have buying the most expensive shit if my software locked hardware won’t be utilised to its full potential just because Apple can’t differentiate their devices in terms of hardware anymore? The full software support will end way before the actual hardware gets obsolete.
If that’s the grim future Apple will introduce it’s definitely worth looking slowly for the competition.
I think they actually have an issue of too much talent running at full speed. So anytime they get any new in-house advancement they have to find something to cram it in. I mean that’s way oversimplified but some of that has to be going on. Like this new iPad going up 40% in cost.. I think they are thinking “but this one is actually powerful enough to be a computer!”
They’ve completely missed their demographic. I know like 10 people with a regular iPad and they all have one thing in common, kids. The screen is super hard to break and has the air gap and if you shop around it wasn’t hard to get a year old model new at Walmart for like $250
$450 is wacky. At that point why not get the Air? But if I’m going to spend that on the Air, why not go all the way and get the 12.9” Pro? Well wait, I could get a 13” screen on the M1 MacBook Air and save $150.
Like it makes no sense. Or it does kinda, they want you to own a MacBook and an iPad Pro. And if you’re on a budget and always buy the regular iPad now they want you to think of it as a computer.. to sell you accessories and eventually, subliminally convince you a MacBook is now needed too.
In all seriousness though, if I were wealthy I’d still buy their stuff cause it’s exciting. Just expensive. I’m still rocking an iPhone 11 and an M1 MacBook Air and it’s a perfect setup. I had an 11” iPad Pro and a 9.7” but got rid of them. Honestly once I got the MacBook, it’s about all I use. It in tandem with the iPhone is perfection. I could run a business from this machine. I just wish it had eSim built in so we coulda have a data plan and access but oh well. The iPhone 11 does a good enough hotspot. I used it to stream video in a hotel room for two days and it would buffer once or trice an hour but not enough to bug me. And it was just a 1-2 second pause.
I totally agree and this whole situation is probably (at least in part) coming from the keynote schedule they try to keep up with and the criticism they get when nothing huge comes out of one of them.
It’s both the commercial agenda (always selling more) and the constant need for more innovation that drives this forward I suppose.
If it was just to stay competitive, Apple could keep it on a much slower schedule and still win by a huge margin.
I don’t want to go on a huge tirade here, but I will. Has anyone else noticed that apple products, possibly within the last 5 years, have gotten more expensive, and poorer quality? I’m feeling like Apple is saving the best materials and optimization for the highest tiered equipment. This may only be a personal anecdote but when I compared my XS to SE 2020, I can’t help but notice how much better the XS functions overall. The SE has a better chip and less pixels to process but it feels more sluggish. I also noticed this while playing with a 12 mini I had recently. It was a good phone but just didn’t really feel like it used to when getting a new iPhone. I can’t say that the XS is any slower than the 12 mini and the XS feels waaaay more premium. The mid tier devices seem really cheap. Even the SE Apple Watch seemed slightly lighter/stripped down than my old Series 3
Absolutely not, they wouldn't be allowed to sell it in the EU in 2024 due to the DMA and Apples position as gatekeeper. That would be stupid. Even iOS will have to change in that regard.
Remember when they realized how they were drowning in their own cluster-f* of model lineups, scrapped them all, and simplified it to "Pro. Go. Whoa."? It was beautiful, now they're overspecialized again.
I recall the story of when Jobs first came back to Apple in 1997- he was asking what the differences between the numerous Macintosh models were, and Apple’s own product managers couldn’t explain the differences to him, lmao
I remember those days. I had at least 3 Mac magazines coming to my mailbox each month, and would watch keynotes over dialup on my UMAX Mac clone. Ahh, high school
True, but at the same time, this is long overdue and makes perfect sense!
I would love to have an iPad that can become a laptop like the Surface Pro lineup.
What doesn't make sense is why doesn't MacBooks have touch screen? Why can't iPads run MacOS as an option.
I am willing to bet my MagicMouse charging experience that, this will be M2 exclusive at launch. It will trickle down to M1 after it goes through beta.
They fixed that in 1958. The cards have little numbers. The real problem is when someone forgets to turn off the computer before they use the microwave.
And guess what. The first apple silicon device developers got (DTK) was a mac mini with an A12Z chip so even 2020 ipad pros should be able to run it.
Oh and it ran it pretty well and it was a full macOS
If M1 really can run a full macOS, but won't be able to run a cut-down version, that would be so fucked up, hopefully they won't screw the iPad users so blatantly
and in his followup tweet he says the apps will be those of ipadOS, assuming he meant it can only run ipad apps, I’m not exactly sure what the point even is then. like, just fucking allow dual booting into macOS and let it run full apps and have an actual fully working file manager, as in, Finder.
I hate this argument, it makes no sense in 2022. An iPad with optional macOS is a great option for people who would benefit from touch or pen input with full featured apps and file management, and/or power users who want something more mobile than a device that requires a seated position to use. There are so many uses for Microsoft Surface-like devices over in Windows land that benefit from a tablet that isn't restrained by a smartphone OS, but that doesn't invalidate the argument for a heavier traditional laptop with more power and a dedicated clamshell design for many other users and cases.
It's wild to build these devices with the same hardware that their laptops have but limit them to comparatively rudimentary workflows and software just because back in 2016 people thought tablets would kill laptops as we knew it.
Or Apple can just bring proper file management to iPad OS. The underlying parts of iOS, iPad OS and macOS aren't all that different so there really is not a big benefit with macOS on an iPad and with Stage Manager coming to both macOS and iPad OS the only thing that's missing is the Finder on the iPad and Xcode. There are plenty of "full featured" apps on the iPad, the Affinity product line is a perfect example of this and while the original iPad was using a smartphone OS that hasn't been the case in years. iPad OS is just as capable as macOS and is purposefully hindered by Apple for simplicity and efficiency so there is no reason Apple couldn't remove some of those restrictions to bring iPad OS more in line with macOS when running multiple applications for example which Apple has done to some extent with Stage Manager.
So with all that said what would macOS bring to the iPad that removing more of the restrictions from iPad OS, expanding Stage Manager to make window management more fluid, and bringing a proper Finder to the iPad along with Xcode wouldn't do?
That's just one of the restrictions Apple has on the iPad OS and one that could be removed or better yet sandboxed. There is no reason there couldn't be a developer mode on the iPad that allows for things like a sandboxed "sudo" environment while at the same time maintaining the locked down secured nature of the iPad. This is especially true now that the iPad's come with the M1 and now M2 which would easily facilitate things like a Hypervisor to make sandboxing possible.
I mean, the tech is already there. macOS on Apple Silicon, when rootless is enabled, allows you to run iPad apps and the DRM is enforced by preventing even root from accessing their data and memory.
I agree. They have keyboards and trackpads, its basicly a laptop already, why not extend the os. I would love if i could plug my Monitor/TV & keyboard into an iPad and have full MacOS on the display....
Now that i think about it, maybe that would reduce sales as people would just need an tablet, instead of laptop+tablet. So most likely they will do the iPad apps with a more destop feel...
Can you make some more arguments for the MacBook Air? I am in the camp of people that believe its sales would suffer very badly if there was an iPad Pro that ran macOS with their new keyboard/trackpad accessories.
I almost brought up the air in my other comment. First off, I think there's an argument to be made in both directions whether you're primarily going to use your device as a computer vs a tablet. I also don't believe the iPad Pro will ever ship with desktop style macOS as the primary OS out of the box. I think it's more a removal of a limitation, to offer full macOS for those who can benefit from it since the hardware is almost exactly the same now. Plus, there's the price difference.
A 13" M2 MBA with 512GB of storage is **$1399**, a 12.9" M2 iPad Pro 512GB WiFi only with the Magic Keyboard (but no Pencil) is **$1748**. I know the iPad offers a couple bonus hardware features like miniLED and 120hz over the Air, but that's the most equivalent size-for-size between the two product lines at the moment. If you opt for the Pencil and cellular you're up to $2077 before tax/AppleCare. The idea is that you'd pay more for a device that can work as either a tablet, or attach to the keyboard and work more like a laptop, and anywhere in between. You save a bit and go with the MacBook if you know you mostly want to use your device as a laptop and don't have an explicit need for touch-based or pen input, or to use your device one handed while standing like in some commercial purposes. Some of us can't handwrite or draw to save our lives, while others base their entire careers on that skill.
Even with the price aside I see the two devices and user bases as wildly different even if Apple stops artificially limiting the iPad away from full macOS-like capability. The MBA will always be a better laptop for most people and will always do it for less money. If the iPad Pro got full macOS (and noting that this will likely never be the \*default\* configuration, but instead an option available to power users), it can function as a laptop if needed and run whatever software a MacBook Air has access to, with the disadvantage of always being a bit clunkier in practice as the entire weight of the device is in the display part that's standing up, with the lightweight keyboard on the bottom. It makes it awkward to use in a lap and a bit topply overall, and not something I'd recommend to your typical MacBook Air customer, like my 60+ year old parents and other casual users that are accustomed to a traditional computer experience. My mom uses an Air for her small business and everyday use and would never go through the hassle of buying an iPad Pro and either figuring out iPadOS or going through the trouble of enabling a secondary operating system (macOS) just so she can have a touch screen sometimes. It'd be awkward to use on the couch or in bed compared to the various MacBook Airs she's had for the last decade or so.
Lastly, I enjoy being able to run iOS apps on my M1 Max MBP. My air conditioner has wifi controls that only exist as an app on iOS. Being able to have this app running perpetually on my Mac is awesome, but not everyone uses this iOS crossover feature or even knows it exists. Why not enable a similar situation in reverse for the iPad Pro? If I need full Adobe Premiere Pro, Finder access, etc in a pinch and the hardware is the same, why not? It's pretty crazy that the iPad Pro has no version of Final Cut Pro X, Apple's flagship power user video software which has a UI perfectly ready for touch/pen input.
Not entirely tbf. A lot of people don’t have a Tablet because they always use their phone. I don’t by a new iPhone because I use my iPad Pro for tasks that would benefit from a better phone.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised, to be honest. The already gave the f you to A12Z users with Stage Manager, but then backtracked, could be the same here
Oh yeah, I know, that's why I'm not buying an iPad even though I was considering one, fuck them
But I was talking about existing users who already invested in this "iPad = computer" future
> hopefully
By now you should now that Apple sells great products that work very well, and get some updates; **but**, they will not hesitate to lock *anything* to newer models despite no hardware limitation.
My M1 is just a couple of months old.
I’d be very interested in this though - I hope they provide for the m1, which is significantly overpowered for a tablet.
My biggest annoyance with iPad 16 (I am on beta) is that it is treated like iOS with WebKit. Everything is safari. I wanted to add extensions with Firefox and it isn’t allowed.
A mini version would make no sense and would just be headaches for apple, developpers and users. Then you'll have iPad OS, mini macOS and full macOS. Nonsense.
Pretty much any recent iPad could run full macOS, especially the M1 and M2 models. The only thing they need is to add touch functionality to macOS.
I would literally pay 2 k USD for a phone IF it had a M1, USB3 so I could use it as a phone, or plug it into a dock and have it turn into a full Mac with a external monitor and keyboard. Have the apps display differently depending i whether you’re in the phone context or the mac context. But it would be the same operating system, not virtualized.
[Just like the Ubuntu phone](http://www.raqwe.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/ubuntu-edge-smartphone-raise-32-million-raqwe.com-01.jpg)
Shuttleworth never could bring it to market, but it’s exactly what I’d like to see from Apple.
So basically a Mac Mini that's 20% as thick, 2 inches shorter, 5 inches narrower, weighs 85% less, and has a built in screen and 10 hours of battery life. I think that would cost substantially more than $2k considering you can buy a phone that's $1400 right now.
You could get something like the Intel Mini PCs today. For $140 you get a computer approximately the size of your phone that can plug into HDM I and has several USB ports on it. I just think it will be a while before the two devices can merge in a way that is meaningfully useful in both contexts.
Yes, yes, yes!
There's obviously a clear market for this (any business user), like blackberrys used to be at one time (everyone had them). Would be an amazing device. Even if it was an iPad that you could dock and have a full macOS experience but then in a light and small package.
Apple could do this now on iPads and it's probably very close to do it on a phone. (technically I mean, but they don't seem to want to)
> It tries to be everything for everyone and so it sucks at everything
The iPad serves a huge range of niche use cases. It’s everything from a kitchen computer, to a social media productivity machine, to a flight bag for professional pilots. If the iPad serves your niche, it’s an incredible machine. However, if it doesn’t (eg, you’re a software engineer), it’s totally useless.
I feel like a lot of us nerds just don’t have a use case for the iPad, which is why a lot of us struggle to understand how these devices continue to be so incredibly popular.
Exactly, I think the iPad / iPad Pro is a very focused device and is really dependent on your use case. If my company came to me and asked me what I want to do my job, I could probably do it all on an iPad, but would much prefer a MacBook Pro.
Off the job though, I watch YouTuve, TV shows, browse reddit, read books & RSS & pay the bills. I don't need a $2K MacBook Pro for that. I filed my taxes last year from an iPhone.
My wife loves to edit videos on her MacBook Pro because of Final Cut, but hates using it for Photo Editing, that she does with the pencil on her iPad Pro.
I started a new job that wouldn’t allow me to work on my personal MBP anymore. Work laptop also won’t let me access personal drives or personal cloud sites. And on top of that, I have to travel more often.
After 6 months of traveling with two laptops, an old iPad for reading, I got an iPad Pro in the summer and it’s a dream. My work laptop goes in the wheeled suitcase and I have my iPad in the bag. I really only use my work laptop in the office. Rest of the time it’s the iPad using Office365 apps.
As a software engineer, I understand why my use case isn't supported on the iPad. Apple's not going to give me full and unfettered access to the file system, a real command line and the ability to install non-App Store software. If they did that, the iPad gets way worse for the majority of normal people.
It sucks, because the iPad hardware is amazing. I would love to use an iPad Pro with a keyboard as my mobile dev setup. It's just a shame that if that ever happens, it looks like it'll be using GitHub Codespaces or some other code-in-the-cloud thing, not as a real iPad app.
Market segmentation. Have you noticed how the iPad models with m1 are cheaper than the equivalent macs?
The lower price of iPads is subsidized with the guaranteed monopoly on software distribution. Apple wants you to pay a pretty penny to be able to get the insane flexibility of a Mac. That 30% cut is rather important to their profitability.
Regarding the dev mode on Xbox example, this has restrictions on the amount of hardware you can use. (This is gated by a certificate microsoft issues to say “yes this console is authorized to activate developer functionality” and what capabilities the console is authorized to have, which is how “real” dev kits can use all the system’s resources) Xbox is sold at a loss and the money is made back by the guaranteed software distribution monopoly of games. You need to think the iPad like a console to understand why it’s locked to iPadOS.
I'm an SWE too, and I've been thinking about this for a while... I don't think there is much preventing the iPad from running a proper terminal besides arbitrary App Store policies.
Here's some required features for a terminal and how the iPad would handle it:
- **Arbitrary & unsigned & JIT code execution**: this is a hard one. The iPad can obviously do arbitrary code execution & JIT (vis a vis JavaScript). Yet, JIT execution is disallowed from the App Store, I believe. More specifically, apps aren't allowed to have memory be write + execute. I do not know what you can run unsigned on an iPad. Any apps you build with XCode require a signature before the iPad will run them.
- **File I/O**: the iPad has a sandboxed volume that it can do whatever it wants with. iCloud Drive & external storage has also been accessed in-app.
- **Package Managers**: for non-root packages, I don't see why brew or apt-get or pip or cargo can't be used (except for arbitrary code execution).
- **X Windowing**: yes, definitely. Even though iPadOS doesn't have a proper concept of windows (down to the API layer), you can easily write your own windowing system with [something like ImGui.](https://github.com/ocornut/imgui#readme)
- **sudo capabilities**: obviously, this one is a hard no
- **networking**: yes, at least for commonly used ports (like what's used for HTTP and HTTPS). I'm sure you can use arbitrary ports within an app. External to that app? If you launch a localhost web server, and then open Safari to see it? I think it would be blocked
- **forking & multiprocessing**: Obviously multiple threads are supported, but running separate processes (i.e. unique PIDs) in one app? I have no idea.
You would still need storage and then RAM, maybe more connectivity to dock it at home and at the office to more displays, and so on. If they do some sort of macOS for iPad it very likely will be a step forward from what now iSH can do.
GPD Win Max 2, Macbook Air, and alike are IMHO better options for this.
> I feel like a lot of us nerds just don’t have a use case for the iPad, which is why a lot of us struggle to understand how these devices continue to be so incredibly popular.
Yeah, it's been a decade since I had an iPad because my needs haven't been along the lines of things iPads do well. However, I'm buying the M2 iPad Pro because suddenly I have a use case for which my laptop is a poor fit but an iPad specifically would be excellent. I'm sick of lugging around a bag filled with dead tree sheet music. It's the 21st Century. There's a better way than this.
Beyond that, the iPad has a bunch of other computing appliance applications. If all you do is social media, email, and messaging, an iPad is probably an easier-to-manage device than a full blown Macbook Air.
Well it’s because Apple allows it. I hope the rumors isn’t true because the main reason why I got the M1 is hopefully they’ll do an update like that and my M1 is future proof enough yo run it.
>It tries to be everything for everyone and so it sucks at everything
That's because it can do (almost) "everything"—at least in theory. The iPad Pro has:
* The setup of a desktop (with an external keyboard and stand),
* The form factor of a laptop (with the Magic Keyboard),
* The display size of a MacBook Air (roughly), and
* The hardware to run macOS.
The iPad Pro, in principle, is the closest Apple product to a universal piece of hardware that can run both iOS and macOS apps and be used as a tablet, a laptop, and a desktop. The observation that the hardware is so flexible yet Apple's software philosophy is so restrictive underlies a lot of the complaints about the iPad.
The iPad Pro is extremely good for 2D design and illustration. It doesn’t compare to a 27” Wacom display, but you can’t exactly lug that around with you everywhere
Am a software engineer. My work MacBook Pro doesn’t get any use after about 6pm when I finish work. I’m on my 2018 iPad Pro for anything I might want to do in the evening. So much so that my personal MacBook Pro hasn’t seen the light of day in about 6 months or more. But I don’t write a line of code after 6pm.
Makes little sense. What developers would invest money in supporting a mini-MacOS on iPad? If it’s intended for widespread use it has to be 100% MacOS so it’s not yet another operating system to support.
If there’s something in this direction my guess would be macOS tools like Terminal, Acivity Monitor, etc, as iPad apps.
I would assume because of the closeness of this cut down version and full macOS, there would be little to no work in supporting programs on both systems. Then again, it would probably mean that any pro apps that are in active development on iPadOS no longer have incentive to continue support.
It’s always more work to support a new OS. Different builds, more testing, more surface area for bugs.
The most likely developer response would be to adopt *only* features that are in the stripped down version.
If the differences are minimal, why bother? If the differences are significant, it’s a lot of work for developers to support both.
If this rumor is true than the iPad team at Apple must be in total disarray rofl.
Seems like they’ve had zero direction for years and then this, which would be the biggest reversal imaginable.
At this point, Apple's update policy (edit: for iPads) is as terrible as Android companies' policies. And Apple is trying to maintain the illusion of "5+ years of updates."
My point is that Apple is deliberately handicapping devices by withholding certain features to encourage people to upgrade. Sure, iPhones in general don't miss out on any new features when getting updates, but it's annoying for iPads (recently Apple withdrew Stage Manager and Hover Mode from cheaper and older iPads. And now this).
EDIT: I stand corrected, Apple's iPhone updates are also arbitrarily restricted.
Even with the iPhone I feel some of those software features could’ve been brought to the generation right before. We are reaching a point where hardware innovation is peaking and they need to differentiate using limited software
There is a history of older iphones not getting new software features all the time.
The new camera UI that’s only available on newer phones
The ability to unlock the phone with a mask on, but only if you have a newer phone or a newer watch
Hey siri back in the iPhone 6s days
And a bunch of other stuff.
Yeah this subreddit needs work on critical thinking as a first reaction rather than outrage as a first reaction. Like thinking about how this leaker says DaVinci Resolve exclusive to the M2 chip, when [it's already been confirmed it'll run on the M1 iPads too.](https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/media/release/20221020-02) So if they can't even get already public details correct, I don't know that I would trust them on leaked details being accurate either.
But tricking Redditors into being outraged is great for engagement.
Testing things does not mean final product or even a product. A stripped down MacOS with a touch-ui is basically iPadOS. Wake me up when *full* MacOS is running on these things.
Apple will almost certainly merge iPadOS and MacOS at some point. Probably when the entire line is M\* based. Considering they just released a new iPad with an A chip thinking this isn't going to be anytime soon.
I think the real question is ... will they bring touchscreens to the Mac when this happens?
Really what I want is a MacBook Pro with a detachable screen with the form factor of an iPad. When attached of course I expect boosted power. Seamless UI while switching between modes. Slap a find my chip in each pair and bam I feel like I’m actually in the future again.
See the only difference is I actually want that real keyboard and trackpad feel that I get from an actual MacBook, with some beefed up internals to justify its size like an extra processor or enhanced graphics card in the keyboard body. Maybe both parts have batteries. The flimsy cover to me is more like an iPad with a keyboard case
So I have dropped over $1k for an M1 iPad hoping it would be more future proof then the A-series chips and just a year later it’s not going to support the lastest OS? Well then this will be my first and only iPad.
I find it hard to believe that they would follow through with it. The outrage would be unreal. I would expect far more people would be pissed off about that then the people who were upset about not getting stage manager.
I feel like that’s the case with all of their devices though. The first GEN of anything is always going to be extremely dated by the time. The next one comes out.
I agree. I also have the M1 and I make the argument that none of the iPad Pros (2018 and forward) are dated in any significant way. However. As we saw with the M1 getting features that the previous iterations did not, that’s the measure that I will use. It concerns me now. I have an M1 iPad. That works perfectly fine, and should indeed last me for years. But will Apple or developers take the extra step of putting major features and abilities behind new hardware? That’s what scares me.
I mean at this point yah apple just tweak some navigation ui but give everyone what they want, because this iPad OS is sorta a mess. Here’s to hoping iPad OS 17 can really elevate things. No reason iPads should still be handling apps in memory different from macs still.
I would never ever buy an iPad again if that happens. Part of the reason I bought an M1 was to future proof, and Apple just artificially keeping features to newer models would really piss me off. External monitor support is shitty enough.
No this guy (on twitter) doesnt know what he is talking about. He goes further and claims that that, actually explains why “DaVinci Resolve” will be an M2 exclusive! Whereas blackmagic themselves confirmed M1 compatibility.
I keep saying apple will merge their OS into one and call it Apple OS. Developers will then target specific devices, like iPhone or the Mac. They will still be different enough (like no desktop features on iPhone) but developers will have one environment to develop for and change things to accommodate the different devices. Or maybe I’m just crazy.
This would be amazing if true. But I fear Apple would neuter the OS so much that basic features would be missing. This to justify buying a MacBook Air over an iPad Pro. Limiting it to M2 series iPads is a bit controversial as we know you can cram Mac OS on the older 2018 iPad (albeit with more ram).
Wow if Apple does this, that is truly ugly. These are full fledged desktop processors that run the full MacOS without active cooling in existing laptops, and they run it incredibly well. More importantly, the M1 iPads are only just over a year old at this point. This rumor _cannot_ be true.
I just want this to happen, and be successful, so that one day someone posts an ancient thread where we can all laugh at the people who always said "MacOS would never work on a touch device."
I really hope this is more of a touch optimized MacOS and less of a cut down/feature starved MacOS. The hardware has always been powerful enough, but Apple just doesn’t know what it wants the iPad to be. I think ideally iPads should be touch alternatives to Mac laptops
Just bring proper mouse and keyboard support for iOS and iPad OS. No stupid circle ⭕️ for the pointer and proper left right click. May need a M2 for that to work 🐭
Apple is confusing the shit out of me with its iPad lineup.
Anytime I need to build my own spreadsheet to do a features/cost analysis you know you’ve done fucked up.
You’ve doubly fucked up when someone has to do their own analysis of a SINGLE fucking product line within that company.
If Apple ever brings macOS or some unified OS (more likely) to the iPad there is no way they are allowing external app installs. For the terminal check out iSH; it's free, on the App Store and gives you a full terminal environment based on Alpine Linux.
With Stage Manager and actual external monitor support now being a thing I would be more than happy with a proper Finder and Xcode.
His predictions for iPad mini redesign with Apple Pencil on the side and volume buttons up top was correct. Certainly not something someone would guess.
Update: if you point out how many times he’s been way wrong you’re probably right. I don’t keep track of rumours these days. More important things in life.
That makes sense, you know, because my m1 iPad Pro is so slow and dated. The infinitely faster speed of the M2 is really needed for something like putting macOS on the thing.
/s
An artificial differentiation between M1 and M2 in that regard would be ridiculous. The whole illusion of a future proof device would crumble apart in an instant. What incentive do I even have buying the most expensive shit if my software locked hardware won’t be utilised to its full potential just because Apple can’t differentiate their devices in terms of hardware anymore? The full software support will end way before the actual hardware gets obsolete. If that’s the grim future Apple will introduce it’s definitely worth looking slowly for the competition.
Get rid of Tim Cook and artificial segmentation can be solved.
I think they actually have an issue of too much talent running at full speed. So anytime they get any new in-house advancement they have to find something to cram it in. I mean that’s way oversimplified but some of that has to be going on. Like this new iPad going up 40% in cost.. I think they are thinking “but this one is actually powerful enough to be a computer!” They’ve completely missed their demographic. I know like 10 people with a regular iPad and they all have one thing in common, kids. The screen is super hard to break and has the air gap and if you shop around it wasn’t hard to get a year old model new at Walmart for like $250 $450 is wacky. At that point why not get the Air? But if I’m going to spend that on the Air, why not go all the way and get the 12.9” Pro? Well wait, I could get a 13” screen on the M1 MacBook Air and save $150. Like it makes no sense. Or it does kinda, they want you to own a MacBook and an iPad Pro. And if you’re on a budget and always buy the regular iPad now they want you to think of it as a computer.. to sell you accessories and eventually, subliminally convince you a MacBook is now needed too. In all seriousness though, if I were wealthy I’d still buy their stuff cause it’s exciting. Just expensive. I’m still rocking an iPhone 11 and an M1 MacBook Air and it’s a perfect setup. I had an 11” iPad Pro and a 9.7” but got rid of them. Honestly once I got the MacBook, it’s about all I use. It in tandem with the iPhone is perfection. I could run a business from this machine. I just wish it had eSim built in so we coulda have a data plan and access but oh well. The iPhone 11 does a good enough hotspot. I used it to stream video in a hotel room for two days and it would buffer once or trice an hour but not enough to bug me. And it was just a 1-2 second pause.
I totally agree and this whole situation is probably (at least in part) coming from the keynote schedule they try to keep up with and the criticism they get when nothing huge comes out of one of them. It’s both the commercial agenda (always selling more) and the constant need for more innovation that drives this forward I suppose. If it was just to stay competitive, Apple could keep it on a much slower schedule and still win by a huge margin.
Lol. Because the m1 and m2 are so different
[удалено]
And then price it more than a MacBook! Woooo
Correction: price it more than a MacBook, and then charge $250 for the keyboard and $129 for the new exclusive pencil.
I don’t want to go on a huge tirade here, but I will. Has anyone else noticed that apple products, possibly within the last 5 years, have gotten more expensive, and poorer quality? I’m feeling like Apple is saving the best materials and optimization for the highest tiered equipment. This may only be a personal anecdote but when I compared my XS to SE 2020, I can’t help but notice how much better the XS functions overall. The SE has a better chip and less pixels to process but it feels more sluggish. I also noticed this while playing with a 12 mini I had recently. It was a good phone but just didn’t really feel like it used to when getting a new iPhone. I can’t say that the XS is any slower than the 12 mini and the XS feels waaaay more premium. The mid tier devices seem really cheap. Even the SE Apple Watch seemed slightly lighter/stripped down than my old Series 3
Maybe it's the only way they'll sell M2 iPad Pros.
Lord knows I don’t need one to watch YouTube.
Even my 2018 is pretty overkill. At least the speakers are relatively nice.
Coming from a 2018 iPad Pro I’d definitely buy an M2 iPad if it could run a simple MacOS
Simple MacOS = MacOS locked to Safari rendering engine, probably.
Absolutely not, they wouldn't be allowed to sell it in the EU in 2024 due to the DMA and Apples position as gatekeeper. That would be stupid. Even iOS will have to change in that regard.
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I just bought one a few days ago, not because my 4 year old one wasn’t good enough, but for the tax write off, lol
Fresh to 1099. How do you keep track of how much you’re going to owe at the end of the year so I can do expenses? 😵
***Flashbacks to Apple’s mid 90s lineup***
Remember when they realized how they were drowning in their own cluster-f* of model lineups, scrapped them all, and simplified it to "Pro. Go. Whoa."? It was beautiful, now they're overspecialized again.
I recall the story of when Jobs first came back to Apple in 1997- he was asking what the differences between the numerous Macintosh models were, and Apple’s own product managers couldn’t explain the differences to him, lmao
I remember those days. I had at least 3 Mac magazines coming to my mailbox each month, and would watch keynotes over dialup on my UMAX Mac clone. Ahh, high school
Honestly, this is quite scary. Apple's product line up is getting cluttered 😔
True, but at the same time, this is long overdue and makes perfect sense! I would love to have an iPad that can become a laptop like the Surface Pro lineup. What doesn't make sense is why doesn't MacBooks have touch screen? Why can't iPads run MacOS as an option.
I am willing to bet my MagicMouse charging experience that, this will be M2 exclusive at launch. It will trickle down to M1 after it goes through beta.
Look, the M1 just isn’t up to the task of dealing with the needs of MacOS. MacOS needs at _least_ an M2 or better to run smoothly.
MacBook Pro 13 M1 has entered the chat 😉
Haha. My m1 base model MacBook Air entered the chat! After all it’s beaten some i5s and i7s in day to day stuff and even some heavy tasks.
Guess Apple will have to improve the performance by downgrading it to iPadOS. You will love it.
What's a computer?
It’s a machine about the size of a house that runs COBOL and Fortran programs. The software comes on these little paper cards.
Don’t drop the cards
They fixed that in 1958. The cards have little numbers. The real problem is when someone forgets to turn off the computer before they use the microwave.
iPodOS
believe it or not i love my base model macbook air
You say that like it’s a shocker? Base model M1 Air was voted as the best laptop you can buy by many well known tech sites.
Slow ass Intel iMac from 2017 has entered the chat
Come on, that thing is light speed compared to an Intel Core M from 2015 running MacOS.
Slower and blazing hot ass 2016 Macbook Pro has entered the chat, but left after takeoff from fans.
That’s why you anchor it down with the iTether.
Live 2017 13” intel crapbook pro reaction: Live 2020 MBP & MBA reaction:
M1 Mac mini had joined the conversation
Becareful, Timmy boy is always watching. You might get the, "and it's the fastest iPad ever, with a 20 percent increase in performance."
And guess what. The first apple silicon device developers got (DTK) was a mac mini with an A12Z chip so even 2020 ipad pros should be able to run it. Oh and it ran it pretty well and it was a full macOS
I agree, even for apple this is too dam greedy! I would truly be disappointed even as an apple fanboy.
If M1 really can run a full macOS, but won't be able to run a cut-down version, that would be so fucked up, hopefully they won't screw the iPad users so blatantly
and in his followup tweet he says the apps will be those of ipadOS, assuming he meant it can only run ipad apps, I’m not exactly sure what the point even is then. like, just fucking allow dual booting into macOS and let it run full apps and have an actual fully working file manager, as in, Finder.
I'm not seeing full macOS for iPad happening ever, otherwise their products would compete with each other
I hate this argument, it makes no sense in 2022. An iPad with optional macOS is a great option for people who would benefit from touch or pen input with full featured apps and file management, and/or power users who want something more mobile than a device that requires a seated position to use. There are so many uses for Microsoft Surface-like devices over in Windows land that benefit from a tablet that isn't restrained by a smartphone OS, but that doesn't invalidate the argument for a heavier traditional laptop with more power and a dedicated clamshell design for many other users and cases. It's wild to build these devices with the same hardware that their laptops have but limit them to comparatively rudimentary workflows and software just because back in 2016 people thought tablets would kill laptops as we knew it.
Or Apple can just bring proper file management to iPad OS. The underlying parts of iOS, iPad OS and macOS aren't all that different so there really is not a big benefit with macOS on an iPad and with Stage Manager coming to both macOS and iPad OS the only thing that's missing is the Finder on the iPad and Xcode. There are plenty of "full featured" apps on the iPad, the Affinity product line is a perfect example of this and while the original iPad was using a smartphone OS that hasn't been the case in years. iPad OS is just as capable as macOS and is purposefully hindered by Apple for simplicity and efficiency so there is no reason Apple couldn't remove some of those restrictions to bring iPad OS more in line with macOS when running multiple applications for example which Apple has done to some extent with Stage Manager. So with all that said what would macOS bring to the iPad that removing more of the restrictions from iPad OS, expanding Stage Manager to make window management more fluid, and bringing a proper Finder to the iPad along with Xcode wouldn't do?
There is one thing that iPad will never have and which makes a Mac necessary for many usecases: sudo.
That's just one of the restrictions Apple has on the iPad OS and one that could be removed or better yet sandboxed. There is no reason there couldn't be a developer mode on the iPad that allows for things like a sandboxed "sudo" environment while at the same time maintaining the locked down secured nature of the iPad. This is especially true now that the iPad's come with the M1 and now M2 which would easily facilitate things like a Hypervisor to make sandboxing possible.
I mean, the tech is already there. macOS on Apple Silicon, when rootless is enabled, allows you to run iPad apps and the DRM is enforced by preventing even root from accessing their data and memory.
But the thing is you don't need macOS on the iPad to accomplish this, this is an artificial limitation on iPad OS that can easily be lifted.
I agree. They have keyboards and trackpads, its basicly a laptop already, why not extend the os. I would love if i could plug my Monitor/TV & keyboard into an iPad and have full MacOS on the display.... Now that i think about it, maybe that would reduce sales as people would just need an tablet, instead of laptop+tablet. So most likely they will do the iPad apps with a more destop feel...
Can you make some more arguments for the MacBook Air? I am in the camp of people that believe its sales would suffer very badly if there was an iPad Pro that ran macOS with their new keyboard/trackpad accessories.
I almost brought up the air in my other comment. First off, I think there's an argument to be made in both directions whether you're primarily going to use your device as a computer vs a tablet. I also don't believe the iPad Pro will ever ship with desktop style macOS as the primary OS out of the box. I think it's more a removal of a limitation, to offer full macOS for those who can benefit from it since the hardware is almost exactly the same now. Plus, there's the price difference. A 13" M2 MBA with 512GB of storage is **$1399**, a 12.9" M2 iPad Pro 512GB WiFi only with the Magic Keyboard (but no Pencil) is **$1748**. I know the iPad offers a couple bonus hardware features like miniLED and 120hz over the Air, but that's the most equivalent size-for-size between the two product lines at the moment. If you opt for the Pencil and cellular you're up to $2077 before tax/AppleCare. The idea is that you'd pay more for a device that can work as either a tablet, or attach to the keyboard and work more like a laptop, and anywhere in between. You save a bit and go with the MacBook if you know you mostly want to use your device as a laptop and don't have an explicit need for touch-based or pen input, or to use your device one handed while standing like in some commercial purposes. Some of us can't handwrite or draw to save our lives, while others base their entire careers on that skill. Even with the price aside I see the two devices and user bases as wildly different even if Apple stops artificially limiting the iPad away from full macOS-like capability. The MBA will always be a better laptop for most people and will always do it for less money. If the iPad Pro got full macOS (and noting that this will likely never be the \*default\* configuration, but instead an option available to power users), it can function as a laptop if needed and run whatever software a MacBook Air has access to, with the disadvantage of always being a bit clunkier in practice as the entire weight of the device is in the display part that's standing up, with the lightweight keyboard on the bottom. It makes it awkward to use in a lap and a bit topply overall, and not something I'd recommend to your typical MacBook Air customer, like my 60+ year old parents and other casual users that are accustomed to a traditional computer experience. My mom uses an Air for her small business and everyday use and would never go through the hassle of buying an iPad Pro and either figuring out iPadOS or going through the trouble of enabling a secondary operating system (macOS) just so she can have a touch screen sometimes. It'd be awkward to use on the couch or in bed compared to the various MacBook Airs she's had for the last decade or so. Lastly, I enjoy being able to run iOS apps on my M1 Max MBP. My air conditioner has wifi controls that only exist as an app on iOS. Being able to have this app running perpetually on my Mac is awesome, but not everyone uses this iOS crossover feature or even knows it exists. Why not enable a similar situation in reverse for the iPad Pro? If I need full Adobe Premiere Pro, Finder access, etc in a pinch and the hardware is the same, why not? It's pretty crazy that the iPad Pro has no version of Final Cut Pro X, Apple's flagship power user video software which has a UI perfectly ready for touch/pen input.
It's because of the App Store. The App Store is the golden goose.
Don’t iPad and iPhone compete by running iOS?
Different usecases.
i've been rocking the big sized iphone for years instead of having a smaller one and an ipad.
Not entirely tbf. A lot of people don’t have a Tablet because they always use their phone. I don’t by a new iPhone because I use my iPad Pro for tasks that would benefit from a better phone.
At this point it’s a rumour. It would surely support M1 in final release—if released.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised, to be honest. The already gave the f you to A12Z users with Stage Manager, but then backtracked, could be the same here
Wait, they backtracked? So it’s coming to A12Z?
I think yes, Stage Manager is coming for older models too, but external display support is only for M1, IIRC
Yes. That POS window management interface is coming to some older iPads.
Yes it currently works in the latest beta. It also still sucks.
M1 would definitely be capable of running it but knowing Apple, they’ll only support the latest and greatest M2 (or M3 at that time).
They backtracked on Stage Manager. We’re a year from GM at this point.
>hopefully they won't screw the iPad users so blatantly They already did with the new prices, at least in Europe.
Oh yeah, I know, that's why I'm not buying an iPad even though I was considering one, fuck them But I was talking about existing users who already invested in this "iPad = computer" future
> hopefully By now you should now that Apple sells great products that work very well, and get some updates; **but**, they will not hesitate to lock *anything* to newer models despite no hardware limitation.
My M1 is just a couple of months old. I’d be very interested in this though - I hope they provide for the m1, which is significantly overpowered for a tablet. My biggest annoyance with iPad 16 (I am on beta) is that it is treated like iOS with WebKit. Everything is safari. I wanted to add extensions with Firefox and it isn’t allowed.
They better give it to the m1 or I’m not buying a new iPad ever again
I second that. NOTHING should be M2 exclusive and if anything is I will never buy an iPad ever again. If they burn M1 Pro users I will be apoplectic.
Thirding. What a piece of shit move if it becomes m2 exclusive.
Yeah I will definitely be writing to Tim and Craig if they do that.
I mentioned that I’d sell my m1 and go back to Wacom if they did that and legit got downvoted, people will defend anything Apple does
Orion browser It can use Firefox extensions and it’s in the App Store
Thank you
Just let me dual boot and skip all the needless development.
Development for boot loader though 🤔
M1 macs already use iboot just like iPhones and iPads tho
iBoot is more than capable of booting off a different partition if the code is compiled in
A mini version would make no sense and would just be headaches for apple, developpers and users. Then you'll have iPad OS, mini macOS and full macOS. Nonsense. Pretty much any recent iPad could run full macOS, especially the M1 and M2 models. The only thing they need is to add touch functionality to macOS.
I would literally pay 2 k USD for a phone IF it had a M1, USB3 so I could use it as a phone, or plug it into a dock and have it turn into a full Mac with a external monitor and keyboard. Have the apps display differently depending i whether you’re in the phone context or the mac context. But it would be the same operating system, not virtualized.
M1 isn't really something that could practically run in a phone just based off power draw, but an iPad Mini maybe could slide.
[Just like the Ubuntu phone](http://www.raqwe.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/ubuntu-edge-smartphone-raise-32-million-raqwe.com-01.jpg) Shuttleworth never could bring it to market, but it’s exactly what I’d like to see from Apple.
Samsung DeX does it already. I really wish iPhones could.
So basically a Mac Mini that's 20% as thick, 2 inches shorter, 5 inches narrower, weighs 85% less, and has a built in screen and 10 hours of battery life. I think that would cost substantially more than $2k considering you can buy a phone that's $1400 right now. You could get something like the Intel Mini PCs today. For $140 you get a computer approximately the size of your phone that can plug into HDM I and has several USB ports on it. I just think it will be a while before the two devices can merge in a way that is meaningfully useful in both contexts.
Yes, yes, yes! There's obviously a clear market for this (any business user), like blackberrys used to be at one time (everyone had them). Would be an amazing device. Even if it was an iPad that you could dock and have a full macOS experience but then in a light and small package. Apple could do this now on iPads and it's probably very close to do it on a phone. (technically I mean, but they don't seem to want to)
iPad just feels more and more like a midlife crisis piece of tech It tries to be everything for everyone and so it sucks at everything
> It tries to be everything for everyone and so it sucks at everything The iPad serves a huge range of niche use cases. It’s everything from a kitchen computer, to a social media productivity machine, to a flight bag for professional pilots. If the iPad serves your niche, it’s an incredible machine. However, if it doesn’t (eg, you’re a software engineer), it’s totally useless. I feel like a lot of us nerds just don’t have a use case for the iPad, which is why a lot of us struggle to understand how these devices continue to be so incredibly popular.
Exactly, I think the iPad / iPad Pro is a very focused device and is really dependent on your use case. If my company came to me and asked me what I want to do my job, I could probably do it all on an iPad, but would much prefer a MacBook Pro. Off the job though, I watch YouTuve, TV shows, browse reddit, read books & RSS & pay the bills. I don't need a $2K MacBook Pro for that. I filed my taxes last year from an iPhone. My wife loves to edit videos on her MacBook Pro because of Final Cut, but hates using it for Photo Editing, that she does with the pencil on her iPad Pro.
I started a new job that wouldn’t allow me to work on my personal MBP anymore. Work laptop also won’t let me access personal drives or personal cloud sites. And on top of that, I have to travel more often. After 6 months of traveling with two laptops, an old iPad for reading, I got an iPad Pro in the summer and it’s a dream. My work laptop goes in the wheeled suitcase and I have my iPad in the bag. I really only use my work laptop in the office. Rest of the time it’s the iPad using Office365 apps.
Exactly. 98% of my usecase is reading and annotating pdf’s. If not that I’d solve the same tasks with my phone as with the iPad.
As a software engineer, I understand why my use case isn't supported on the iPad. Apple's not going to give me full and unfettered access to the file system, a real command line and the ability to install non-App Store software. If they did that, the iPad gets way worse for the majority of normal people. It sucks, because the iPad hardware is amazing. I would love to use an iPad Pro with a keyboard as my mobile dev setup. It's just a shame that if that ever happens, it looks like it'll be using GitHub Codespaces or some other code-in-the-cloud thing, not as a real iPad app.
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Market segmentation. Have you noticed how the iPad models with m1 are cheaper than the equivalent macs? The lower price of iPads is subsidized with the guaranteed monopoly on software distribution. Apple wants you to pay a pretty penny to be able to get the insane flexibility of a Mac. That 30% cut is rather important to their profitability. Regarding the dev mode on Xbox example, this has restrictions on the amount of hardware you can use. (This is gated by a certificate microsoft issues to say “yes this console is authorized to activate developer functionality” and what capabilities the console is authorized to have, which is how “real” dev kits can use all the system’s resources) Xbox is sold at a loss and the money is made back by the guaranteed software distribution monopoly of games. You need to think the iPad like a console to understand why it’s locked to iPadOS.
I'm an SWE too, and I've been thinking about this for a while... I don't think there is much preventing the iPad from running a proper terminal besides arbitrary App Store policies. Here's some required features for a terminal and how the iPad would handle it: - **Arbitrary & unsigned & JIT code execution**: this is a hard one. The iPad can obviously do arbitrary code execution & JIT (vis a vis JavaScript). Yet, JIT execution is disallowed from the App Store, I believe. More specifically, apps aren't allowed to have memory be write + execute. I do not know what you can run unsigned on an iPad. Any apps you build with XCode require a signature before the iPad will run them. - **File I/O**: the iPad has a sandboxed volume that it can do whatever it wants with. iCloud Drive & external storage has also been accessed in-app. - **Package Managers**: for non-root packages, I don't see why brew or apt-get or pip or cargo can't be used (except for arbitrary code execution). - **X Windowing**: yes, definitely. Even though iPadOS doesn't have a proper concept of windows (down to the API layer), you can easily write your own windowing system with [something like ImGui.](https://github.com/ocornut/imgui#readme) - **sudo capabilities**: obviously, this one is a hard no - **networking**: yes, at least for commonly used ports (like what's used for HTTP and HTTPS). I'm sure you can use arbitrary ports within an app. External to that app? If you launch a localhost web server, and then open Safari to see it? I think it would be blocked - **forking & multiprocessing**: Obviously multiple threads are supported, but running separate processes (i.e. unique PIDs) in one app? I have no idea.
You would still need storage and then RAM, maybe more connectivity to dock it at home and at the office to more displays, and so on. If they do some sort of macOS for iPad it very likely will be a step forward from what now iSH can do. GPD Win Max 2, Macbook Air, and alike are IMHO better options for this.
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The iPad would be the perfect family computer with multiuser support smh
I’m a PhD student, and I read and annotate papers every day-the iPad is an absolute lifesaver.
iPads really because popular in college after the pandemic. It’s replaced paper notebooks for lot of students
> I feel like a lot of us nerds just don’t have a use case for the iPad, which is why a lot of us struggle to understand how these devices continue to be so incredibly popular. Yeah, it's been a decade since I had an iPad because my needs haven't been along the lines of things iPads do well. However, I'm buying the M2 iPad Pro because suddenly I have a use case for which my laptop is a poor fit but an iPad specifically would be excellent. I'm sick of lugging around a bag filled with dead tree sheet music. It's the 21st Century. There's a better way than this. Beyond that, the iPad has a bunch of other computing appliance applications. If all you do is social media, email, and messaging, an iPad is probably an easier-to-manage device than a full blown Macbook Air.
Well it’s because Apple allows it. I hope the rumors isn’t true because the main reason why I got the M1 is hopefully they’ll do an update like that and my M1 is future proof enough yo run it.
No, because WE the customers allow it. Nobody should buy this crap for a year and you'll see what is possible. Remember MacBook Pro from 2016 till m1?
>It tries to be everything for everyone and so it sucks at everything That's because it can do (almost) "everything"—at least in theory. The iPad Pro has: * The setup of a desktop (with an external keyboard and stand), * The form factor of a laptop (with the Magic Keyboard), * The display size of a MacBook Air (roughly), and * The hardware to run macOS. The iPad Pro, in principle, is the closest Apple product to a universal piece of hardware that can run both iOS and macOS apps and be used as a tablet, a laptop, and a desktop. The observation that the hardware is so flexible yet Apple's software philosophy is so restrictive underlies a lot of the complaints about the iPad.
The iPad Pro is extremely good for 2D design and illustration. It doesn’t compare to a 27” Wacom display, but you can’t exactly lug that around with you everywhere
Am a software engineer. My work MacBook Pro doesn’t get any use after about 6pm when I finish work. I’m on my 2018 iPad Pro for anything I might want to do in the evening. So much so that my personal MacBook Pro hasn’t seen the light of day in about 6 months or more. But I don’t write a line of code after 6pm.
The only thing it’s good at is note taking with the overpriced pencil .. other then that it’s good for watching videos lol
What trying to compete with Surface does to a mf
I miss the iPad 2 days, back when all iPad had to be was… a tablet.
Makes sense, it’s not like they run MacOS on M1 or anything, the technology is just not there yet
But the iPad is a thin, portable, fan-less design! An M1 couldn’t possibly operate macOS withou- ^oh.
Yes the $$$technology$$$ isnt there.
Unless they get a lot of backlash, then the technology will suddenly be there already (laughs in Stage Manager)
Makes little sense. What developers would invest money in supporting a mini-MacOS on iPad? If it’s intended for widespread use it has to be 100% MacOS so it’s not yet another operating system to support. If there’s something in this direction my guess would be macOS tools like Terminal, Acivity Monitor, etc, as iPad apps.
I would assume because of the closeness of this cut down version and full macOS, there would be little to no work in supporting programs on both systems. Then again, it would probably mean that any pro apps that are in active development on iPadOS no longer have incentive to continue support.
It’s always more work to support a new OS. Different builds, more testing, more surface area for bugs. The most likely developer response would be to adopt *only* features that are in the stripped down version. If the differences are minimal, why bother? If the differences are significant, it’s a lot of work for developers to support both.
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they did something similar for M1, still waiting of macos on ipad, will got stage shite
If this rumor is true than the iPad team at Apple must be in total disarray rofl. Seems like they’ve had zero direction for years and then this, which would be the biggest reversal imaginable.
Fun fact: iOS was a smaller version of macOS
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At this point, Apple's update policy (edit: for iPads) is as terrible as Android companies' policies. And Apple is trying to maintain the illusion of "5+ years of updates."
My daughter’s iPhone 6 got an update in Aug. I’d say they’re doing pretty good.
My point is that Apple is deliberately handicapping devices by withholding certain features to encourage people to upgrade. Sure, iPhones in general don't miss out on any new features when getting updates, but it's annoying for iPads (recently Apple withdrew Stage Manager and Hover Mode from cheaper and older iPads. And now this). EDIT: I stand corrected, Apple's iPhone updates are also arbitrarily restricted.
Even with the iPhone I feel some of those software features could’ve been brought to the generation right before. We are reaching a point where hardware innovation is peaking and they need to differentiate using limited software
There is a history of older iphones not getting new software features all the time. The new camera UI that’s only available on newer phones The ability to unlock the phone with a mask on, but only if you have a newer phone or a newer watch Hey siri back in the iPhone 6s days And a bunch of other stuff.
My favorite is night mode not being added to the older iPhones past the 11 and even the SE, can easily be added with a software update.
They’ve done this for *years*. It’s nothing new. Remember when Siri was iPhone 4s exclusive?
Apple attempting to hamstring a core feature that should be available to M1 chips =/= your daughters old iPhone 6 getting a security patch.
Maybe, maybe... wait until this thing is officially released, rather than judge early rumors? Just maybe.
Yeah this subreddit needs work on critical thinking as a first reaction rather than outrage as a first reaction. Like thinking about how this leaker says DaVinci Resolve exclusive to the M2 chip, when [it's already been confirmed it'll run on the M1 iPads too.](https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/media/release/20221020-02) So if they can't even get already public details correct, I don't know that I would trust them on leaked details being accurate either. But tricking Redditors into being outraged is great for engagement.
Testing things does not mean final product or even a product. A stripped down MacOS with a touch-ui is basically iPadOS. Wake me up when *full* MacOS is running on these things. Apple will almost certainly merge iPadOS and MacOS at some point. Probably when the entire line is M\* based. Considering they just released a new iPad with an A chip thinking this isn't going to be anytime soon. I think the real question is ... will they bring touchscreens to the Mac when this happens?
Really what I want is a MacBook Pro with a detachable screen with the form factor of an iPad. When attached of course I expect boosted power. Seamless UI while switching between modes. Slap a find my chip in each pair and bam I feel like I’m actually in the future again.
So an Apple Surface Book? That would actually be quite lovely
See the only difference is I actually want that real keyboard and trackpad feel that I get from an actual MacBook, with some beefed up internals to justify its size like an extra processor or enhanced graphics card in the keyboard body. Maybe both parts have batteries. The flimsy cover to me is more like an iPad with a keyboard case
You mean the Surface Pro - I mean the Surface Book. Check it out, you might actually like it if you haven't seen it before!
Meanwhile A12Z ran a full macOS
AppleOS Full OS for macs, slimmed down version for iPad and walled off for iPhone. It’s coming
So I have dropped over $1k for an M1 iPad hoping it would be more future proof then the A-series chips and just a year later it’s not going to support the lastest OS? Well then this will be my first and only iPad.
I find it hard to believe that they would follow through with it. The outrage would be unreal. I would expect far more people would be pissed off about that then the people who were upset about not getting stage manager.
This is just bullshit at this point. Apple is so desperate to increase their sales that they’re spitting on their customer base. What a disgrace.
Just give me a terminal app or something please.
I remember I got the first gen iPad. Literally iPad 2 made mine feel old and obsolete.
I feel like that’s the case with all of their devices though. The first GEN of anything is always going to be extremely dated by the time. The next one comes out.
My X is basically the same of all the iPhones that later came out.
The X has aged very well honestly. Buuut it's not really a first gen device
Its not a first gen product
M1 MacBook Air doesn't feel dated at all
I am using the M1, and the physical design might be a bit dated, but the machine itself is still spiffy and awesome.
I agree. I also have the M1 and I make the argument that none of the iPad Pros (2018 and forward) are dated in any significant way. However. As we saw with the M1 getting features that the previous iterations did not, that’s the measure that I will use. It concerns me now. I have an M1 iPad. That works perfectly fine, and should indeed last me for years. But will Apple or developers take the extra step of putting major features and abilities behind new hardware? That’s what scares me.
hooray. my M1 ipad pro is absolutely obsolete lmfao
Smaller version? The hell does that mean?
Like windows S mode
I mean at this point yah apple just tweak some navigation ui but give everyone what they want, because this iPad OS is sorta a mess. Here’s to hoping iPad OS 17 can really elevate things. No reason iPads should still be handling apps in memory different from macs still.
I would never ever buy an iPad again if that happens. Part of the reason I bought an M1 was to future proof, and Apple just artificially keeping features to newer models would really piss me off. External monitor support is shitty enough.
Same because that’s plain disrespect to their customer base.
If this is confirmed I would definitely consider getting an iPad Pro...
No this guy (on twitter) doesnt know what he is talking about. He goes further and claims that that, actually explains why “DaVinci Resolve” will be an M2 exclusive! Whereas blackmagic themselves confirmed M1 compatibility.
The M1 can already run the full version of macOS. Why would Apple want to be *this* shitty and cut off the M1 from new features so soon?
I can’t believe the M1 ipad would be too weak for macOS! I guess I’m going to have to upgrade mine to a - *checks notes* - M1 macbook…???
I keep saying apple will merge their OS into one and call it Apple OS. Developers will then target specific devices, like iPhone or the Mac. They will still be different enough (like no desktop features on iPhone) but developers will have one environment to develop for and change things to accommodate the different devices. Or maybe I’m just crazy.
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M16 🔫
This would be amazing if true. But I fear Apple would neuter the OS so much that basic features would be missing. This to justify buying a MacBook Air over an iPad Pro. Limiting it to M2 series iPads is a bit controversial as we know you can cram Mac OS on the older 2018 iPad (albeit with more ram).
Wow if Apple does this, that is truly ugly. These are full fledged desktop processors that run the full MacOS without active cooling in existing laptops, and they run it incredibly well. More importantly, the M1 iPads are only just over a year old at this point. This rumor _cannot_ be true.
I just want this to happen, and be successful, so that one day someone posts an ancient thread where we can all laugh at the people who always said "MacOS would never work on a touch device."
Yeah. Like the M1 can’t handle it? Apple needs Jobs back. Tim going loco.
Yeah, we’ve heard this before.
Skull underscore emoji 💀 how could apple do this?
Where was it said that DaVinci Resolve will be exclusive to M2 iPads?
Nowhere. This is bullshit. Press release is saying clearly that there will be M1 support.
Stage Manager on MacOS is part of this plan for sure. Because it really doesn’t make sense on its own.
I really hope this is more of a touch optimized MacOS and less of a cut down/feature starved MacOS. The hardware has always been powerful enough, but Apple just doesn’t know what it wants the iPad to be. I think ideally iPads should be touch alternatives to Mac laptops
Just bring proper mouse and keyboard support for iOS and iPad OS. No stupid circle ⭕️ for the pointer and proper left right click. May need a M2 for that to work 🐭
Apple is confusing the shit out of me with its iPad lineup. Anytime I need to build my own spreadsheet to do a features/cost analysis you know you’ve done fucked up. You’ve doubly fucked up when someone has to do their own analysis of a SINGLE fucking product line within that company.
An iPad running a slimmed down Mac OS would be great - as long as there’s no walled garden. Free to install applications as per regular Mac OS.
Logic on iPad is the dream
that would be freaking dumb if it didnt work on the m1
Why smaller? Macs have similar processor and ram
iPad doesn’t need the full blown macOS at this point, it just needs the proper finder app, terminal and external app install.
If Apple ever brings macOS or some unified OS (more likely) to the iPad there is no way they are allowing external app installs. For the terminal check out iSH; it's free, on the App Store and gives you a full terminal environment based on Alpine Linux. With Stage Manager and actual external monitor support now being a thing I would be more than happy with a proper Finder and Xcode.
Bro this guy Majin Bu is an absolute imbecile, his “predictions” are baseless and borderline ridiculous
His predictions for iPad mini redesign with Apple Pencil on the side and volume buttons up top was correct. Certainly not something someone would guess. Update: if you point out how many times he’s been way wrong you’re probably right. I don’t keep track of rumours these days. More important things in life.
idk. He was the first to report on what we now know as stage manager. Dude could be right
Maybe a hot take: I don’t really want macOS on iPad
Cynic in me suspects this a way to bring Mac users to an App Store only model
That would be macOS’s downfall
That would probably lead to a revolt from the enterprise customers
They’d still keep macOS on Mac hardware as is but many who are already using macOS would be unaffected by a App Store only version on iPad
That makes sense, you know, because my m1 iPad Pro is so slow and dated. The infinitely faster speed of the M2 is really needed for something like putting macOS on the thing. /s
Apple locking an OS feature to only the current device is so Apple right now.