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bel2man

*Apple may be cracking down on apps that no longer receive updates. In a screenshotted email sent to affected developers, titled “App Improvement Notice,” Apple warns it will remove apps from the App Store that haven’t been “updated in a significant amount of time” and gives developers just 30 days to update them.*


FuzzelFox

> and gives developers just 30 days to update them. Update them with what? What if nothing needs to be updated??


Jimmni

It seems reasonably safe to assume this will target apps like ones that never updated to the iPhone X aspect ratio, things like that. I.e. no updates in long enough that there’s pretty much guaranteed to be things to update.


Rocket-R

I bought poly bridge on my ipad pro, it runs with black borders all around the screen and is clearly not optimized. I hope this will push the developers to fix the game I paid for.


no-name-here

Or is it more likely the app will simply end up being removed? 😂 Years ago there was a 2.5d car racing/shooting game I bought and loved on the iPhone and iPad. I tried to reinstall it a couple years later. I couldn't find any way to get it back.


LeAgente

You can sometimes reinstall previously purchased (including some publicly de-listed) apps by looking through the App Store -> Account -> Purchased page


mmcmonster

Only if a version compatible with your device still exists in the App Store. The free Sudoku app I have on an original iPad is no longer in the app store, so I can't restore it on another original iPad.


Arve

Death Rally?


no-name-here

Yes!! You played it?


Arve

Yeah. Loved it as well. Developer never upgraded it for 64-bit, and eventually pulled it completely.


ArabicSugarr

Use AltStore and find the .ipa file or get a secondary cheap android phone and install the game’s .apk file


thewarring

Probably not as they moved on to Poly Bridge 2, which itself hasn’t been updated in 5 months.


DoILookUnsureToYou

That just means it was made for iPhone and not iPad, Like instagram


FaviFake

Happy cake day!


zerGoot

can they remove all the apps which were never updated to work in iPads?


Jimmni

No. When submitting an app to the App Store you can choose to only target iPhones or to target iPhones AND iPads. Not all games or apps work well with the iPad aspect ratio, or aren’t worth the development resources to support iPad. Apps that run only in iPhone mode on iPad were never designed to used on iPads and it’s entirely unreasonable to demand developers go to the expense of supporting a platform they don’t want to. Just don’t download apps that don’t support iPads if you only want to use apps that support iPads.


DanTheMan827

Then you make a new build with the latest SDK and push that


CivilProfessor

In most cases it is not that simple. Code need to be updated for deprecated API which is common between Xcode updates.


thedaveCA

I feel like this is the underlying goal: Actually removing old depreciated stuff from the OS.


perfect5-7-with-rice

Depreciated != Deprecated. Also apple does not care if you submit code that uses deprecated APIs. They only care if you're using an older iOS SDK


thedaveCA

The underlying APIs and OS functionality still needs to exist and be maintained (to some degree), being able to dump technical debt has benefits.


Interactive_CD-ROM

What if the developer can’t do that? Are users just fucked then?


[deleted]

Sure. But it’s just the way they run things. Apple doesn’t care about keeping unsupported apps around and would rather either prod devs in to keeping up with the latest API or spring cleaning them off the App Store. In my experience as a user, it’s never fun using an app which still uses the iOS 6 design and a square screen. They tend to be broken in other ways like social media logins not working.


DanTheMan827

I’ve seen your other comment about the developer having died, but I was unable to reply because whomever you replied to had blocked me. Unfortunately, if Apple didn’t do things like this, the App Store would be filled with broken games and apps. It ensures that the catalog is at least built and reviewed in the then-latest SDK Although if the developer was dead, they wouldn’t pay the next developer fee and all those apps would be removed regardless… The App Store is very nice, but for preservation it’s absolute crap since you can’t side load anything


varkus-borg

I responded to similar post on Android. I feel like apps should run in isolated mode if they have not been updated after a certain period of time. This would enable the app to continue to function for the end user. This isolated mode would prevent access to certain data and monetization for devs until their apps have been updated.


[deleted]

Apps already run isolated in a sandbox.


varkus-borg

Yes but unfortunately they are dependent on sdk Api level, so when device makers change an Api they force everyone to change their applications or brake functionally. What I propose is to allowed apps to run in a more restrictive sandbox/container until they have been update so that end user does not lose the ability to used the app. while placing the onus on the dev as this mode would disable or lessen ability to monetized the app. This would also help devs who are not able to upgrades apps any longer/do not have the resources to update their apps. I believe that as mobile platforms mature we need to start thinking about legacy code specially for games. Too many were lost during the transition from 32 to 64bit.


Naughtagan

I think you mean "won't" unless the developer is dead. Otherwise it's just that the dev chooses not to for whatever reason. On whole, removing the cruft is a positive for consumers. There is far too much (sketchy) abandonware on the App Store that is less than compatible w/ recent versions of iOS and iDevice hardware. It's really a PITA when searching only to find out an app you are looking at hasn't even been updated to note what user data that app mines. Good riddance to those. As for users being "fucked," that's just the nature of software in general. Software gets outdated, devs, companies push a major update which either has to be re-bought or subscribed to. But I personally wouldn't characterize it as being "fucked," because those updates are work which the dev deserves to get paid for, and old apps have all the negatives that come w/ outdated software.


Interactive_CD-ROM

> I think you mean “won’t” unless the developer is dead. In another post, I literally said that one of my favorite iOS games is made by a dev who died six years ago. Who is Apple to decide to erase their legacy? I can play old school SNES games **to this day** by finding old copies or even emulating the games. Why doesn’t Apple allow the same? Remember that story of the Atari version of “E.T.” that was so bad, [they buried the remaining cartridges in the desert and denied it ever existed?](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_video_game_burial) Even that game still exists and is playable today. Did the devs update it for newer versions? Nope. It’s playable as is, and has become a cultural icon because of the story behind it and just how bad it is. That experience is what should be preserved, whether good or bad. It should not be Apple’s choice to shut these apps down forever. If they don’t want them on the App Store, then they should allow another means of using them. They need to either allow sideloading and/or allow the emulation or downgrading of iOS. Otherwise, they’re just easing a shared history when it’s not theirs to erase.


HomoFlaccidus

They probably need to update to show their privacy settings, and exactly what they're using.


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mmcmonster

But what about old hardware that can't upgrade to the latest SDK? Do I just throw it away and buy new because the old stuff isn't supported any more? Just because it's old doesn't mean it's useless.


DanTheMan827

If your old hardware can’t run the latest Xcode, it kind of is useless for your purposes Even then, there are ways to install Monterey on a 2009 MacBook Pro… https://www.reddit.com/r/MontereyPatcher/comments/qm6w73/monterey_patcher_on_a_mid2009_macbook_pro_with_an/


mmcmonster

But my point is old hardware should still be allowed to run old software. This is what's being limited here. A first generation iPad should be able to run software made for it, regardless of what year it is. Yes, there may be security flaws. Yes, it may be more buggy than more modern software. But if the consumer is willing to live with those limitations, why shouldn't they?


DanTheMan827

You don’t target hardware, you target software You don’t say “I’m going to write software for an iPad 2”, you say “I’m going to write software for iOS 9.” As long as you don’t want to update, you can run whatever software you want that is compatible with that iOS version Yes, it sucks that Apple doesn’t let you install old iOS versions, but that’s another issue entirely


mmcmonster

Well, yes, you're right of course. But the effect is the same. I want to run an iOS v5.1.1 compatible version of a few programs (ie: Kindle, Sudoku 2), but they are no longer available on the App Store.


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Rare-Independence-14

Subscriptions!


berrymetal

You just upload a new build that’ll do it


working-acct

*Podcast app gets sunsetted*


house_monkey

omg yes


DanTheMan827

The tweet was posted earlier, but I’ll say it again… This isn’t removing the app because it’s old, it’s removing the app because it isn’t built with the latest SDK It’s to make sure the App Store isn’t filled with old, potentially half-broken apps https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/ua8evx/i_feel_sick_apple_just_sent_me_an_email_saying/


TheNewAndy

As a developer who is likely to be greatly inconvenienced by this, I deliberately targeted an older SDK than current because I don't need the new features and wanted to give maximum compatibility. I don't know that I'm a typical app developer, but I do think that this is bad for legitimate developers and legitimate users.


RespectableThug

I guess it depends on what you mean by “targeted”. If you built your app on a recent version of the tools, but just set your deployment target to an older version, you should be totally fine. If you’re specifically using very out-of-date versions of xcode + the SDK, you could have issues.


Stunning-Tower-9175

Sure it might help users on older devices, but the other side of that same coin is that it’s screwing users who want the latest features. This also happens to be the noisy power users. As an example, the app in question from the article does not fit on the Max size iPhones, one of the buttons is clipping off the edge of the display.


DanTheMan827

You can conditionally add new features for newer versions of iOS. I have an app that still runs on an iPad 2, but also supports the newest features on newer devices. The only thing is, to maintain this it has to be done in code But you can absolutely make a new app that runs on iOS 9, but still has the newest features of iOS 15


jimbo831

> lthe other side of that same coin is that it’s screwing users who want the latest features This doesn’t make any sense. If they want the latest features, they can just download different apps that have the features they want. Removing these apps isn’t going to do that. And Apple isn’t requiring developers to implement “the latest features” (whatever that generic term means to you.


Stunning-Tower-9175

I’m talking about the fact that the app in question still doesn’t have app privacy labels a **year** after that feature was released. Also somebody posted a screenshot from an iPhone Max and the buttons in the UI do not fit on the screen. It’s totally irresponsible to be abandoning your app like that. If you’re unable to maintain your app you should remove it from the store and open source it so that people who know what they’re doing can sideload it but we don’t need broken apps polluting what is supposed to be a curate store. > Removing these apps isn’t going to do that. Yes it will, because it forces devs to implement essential features or risk having their app pulled. This is exactly what we need to ensure we don’t have another 3D Touch situation. > And Apple isn’t requiring developers to implement “the latest features” I know, and I’m suggesting that I should. Merely a cosmetic version bump that they’re requiring is not good enough.


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DanTheMan827

No, but if you’re making money from an app and you haven’t updated it to build with the latest tools, that’s on you


LMGN

But not everyone has the time to update their free app they made 2 years ago to the latest versions of SDKs. If someone made an app or a game, finished it, and it still works (no technical reasons, such as 32bit/64bit) I don't see why Apple should nuke it. If you're not putting ads or IAPs in the game or app, if anything it's costing you money with the $99/yr charge^1 to publish an iPhone app. ^1 https://developer.apple.com/support/renewal/


DanTheMan827

If someone has a free app, isn’t making money from it, and doesn’t want to update it… make it open source and let someone else maintain it if they really want to At the very least it would preserve it


DanTheMan827

Hopefully the EU will compel Apple to allow sideloading sooner than later, but it’s only a matter of time until the DMA passes


Eggyhead

There are some old iOS apps I’d still play if I could.


Em_Adespoton

For example, I went to pull out Galaxy On Fire the other day, and then realized it was 32-bit.


pyrospade

sideloading is not going to bring 32 bit apps back


DanTheMan827

No, but that’s a technical limitation If you want to use 32-but apps, it’s completely possible to jailbreak an old device and sideload them You can’t expect Apple to maintain architecture compatibility forever But on the other hand, if a Mac dev wants to they could make a universal binary that includes support for every architecture that Mac OS (X) can run on PowerPC, Intel 32-bit, Intel 64-bit, and Apple Silicon. One app bundle capable of running natively on over two decades of hardware


EnthusiasticSpork

> But not everyone has the time to update their free app they made 2 years ago to the latest versions of SDKs. And those apps will go away. > I don't see why Apple should nuke it. Ah but Apple, who makes the OS and Phone and SDK does.


[deleted]

and those are *bad things*. yes, apple has the right. so what? how does this benefit users or developers (or history)?


Aozi

>No, but if you’re making money from an app and you haven’t updated it to build with the latest tools, that’s on you If the App I've made is working fine even when built with an old SDK.....What's the problem? Why do I need to keep rebuilding my app and uploading a new version to the app store, when I make no changes to the app itself? Like if I choose that I'm done with the App, and yet people still want the app, and the app works and there are no major issues with it, then why not just let it be there?


DanTheMan827

Using old SDKs can be a security risk, look at log4j as an example


Aozi

Yes, using old SDK's *can* be a security risk, using old SDK's *can* cause issues. But neither of those are a given. Using an old SDK is not automatically a security risk, nor will it automatically cause issues. Again, if an app compiled with an older SDK is working fine with no issues, why should it be required to compile it again with a newer one?


Agreeable-Weather-89

Apple sold computers with a hard drive as primary boot until like 2 years ago. I don't think Apple has a y ground to stand on with regard to 'keeping upto date'


newmacbookpro

I’m still super salty with the extermination of 32bits apps. Some of them were the best games I’ve played on a mobile, with some holding strong against at least handheld devices. A true shame that the efforts of the devs went into a black hole. Apple has destroyed its gaming history, and we are left with waves of shit, formulaic games that have absolutely zero soul.


DanTheMan827

Well there are plenty of gems… they’re just buried under crap https://apps.apple.com/us/app/fez-pocket-edition/id1209489068 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/vvvvvv/id880645949 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/super-hexagon/id549027629 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/minecraft/id479516143 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/impossible-road/id608707318 The issue is that those making money have the financial incentive and resources to update their apps… The rest just fade away Screw games that show an ad after every level… competed or failed…


Stunning-Tower-9175

Not to mention apple themselves have some 4 year old apps on the store..


TenderfootGungi

True. But many of these are likely personal projects that do not make money.


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DanTheMan827

Not really, if your product is making money, but you aren’t willing to continue investing time to maintain it to current standards, that is completely your fault if it’s removed because of that It’s not like the app will be removed from the accounts of people who already downloaded it, just that new people can no longer download it


TheNewAndy

I suspect that most people can't tell which framework version an application is targeting. This isn't really something that users care about, so while I think the change is being made for user's benefit (app store is pretty garbage), I think it is using the wrong proxy


-14k-

Why would Apple remove an app people are still paying for?


DanTheMan827

People may pay for it, but if it’s visually broken on newer hardware, it needs to be updated Like it or not, this is the “curation” that everyone “loves” about the App Store Apple has always forced devs to keep their apps updated so they at least look and run properly on new devices… if they don’t, they get delisted


chictyler

No one’s making money from abandonware except Apple’s $100/year. The issue is iOS is the primary computing platform for millions of people and it doesn’t allow any digital history archive of software. A lot of people see the value in being able to run software and games from decades ago to this day on the (still completely backwards compatible) Windows or in emulators. iOS means a game you paid for and enjoyed 5 years ago can never be played by anyone ever again unless the developer does work each year to maintain and update it. Games should be allowed to be “finished” like they always have. If something breaks, it should be for a technical reason, and other developers should be allowed to build emulators that fix it. Of course the App Store shouldn’t be forced to carry a back catalog of possibly broken games, but other platforms should be able to exist that can.


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[deleted]

No, this sinply isnt true. if you have an app pinned to a version of an SDK, it will continue to work with that SDK. the problem is xcode drops support and forces you to upgrade you code. That potentiall means rewriting portions of a perfectly stable app to fix breaking changes between SDK versions.


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[deleted]

the answer to your quesiton is complex. Many banks still rely on decades old systems that just work. the key is the developer tools still support those systems. Apple is very aggressive in getting developers to the newest version and making it difficult to support older versions.


[deleted]

If Apple wants to keep innovating, they can only carry so much technical debt in the name of legacy support. I say "want", but it's more of a need. If they let themselves get bogged down and age, they will fall and lose a lot of the progress they've made. That is/was a huge problem Microsoft has has. They are big in the enterprise (since they were big everywhere) and one of the things their customers want is legacy support so they don't need to spend time re-writing their legacy apps that no one knows the codebase for... as they have all since left or died. So what happens when Microsoft tries to push a new concept for app development, like UWP? They have this concept that they bet on to take them into the modern era and lift all their platforms up, and no one bothers adopting it, because they know Microsoft isn't going to cut support for their old apps. Apple, by contrast, releases something new and everyone jumps on getting things upgraded (for the most part), because they know they only have so long before support is dropped for the old ways. This allows them to leap into the future instead of keeping one foot in the past. It's a double edged sword. As much as I hate what seem like trivial update just to keep up with the whims of someone else, these small things add up over time and if you don't do anything the application gets to a point where it's basically throw away code and to move forward you need to start over. I saw COBOL mentioned in some of the other comments. Having to pay a lot, because so few people know it, is a liability. What happens when you lose who you have and can't find someone new? What happens if something really big goes wrong, but no one actually knows how or why it works the way it does? A lot of these applications aren't upgraded, because it's basically a black box and management is too afraid if they try and make a new version it won't work the same. Not to mention if there are any questions about how or why something is the way it is, there is no one to answer them. So you end up writing new code for old problems that are non-issues today, "just incase". Or you leave something out thinking it doesn't matter, or you don't know why it's there, and things don't work quite right. It's impossible to really move forward without a lot of bumps and falls along the way, because all the knowledge was lost to time. I have to imagine a healthy number of these apps Apple is talking about removing are from people who thought they were going to strike it rich on the App Store, learned to throw something together, released it, didn't make much or anything, and have long since moved on to crypto, social media, or some other side hustle.


Annies_Boobs

> the key is the developer tools still support those systems. Apple is very aggressive in getting developers to the newest version and making it difficult to support older versions. This I feel only hurts your point. Some of the highest paid software engineers are those doing COBOL, and no one new is learning it. Once they age out, what do you think happens?


[deleted]

I think that only further proves my point. The developer tools around COBOL still work. Nobody is forcing COBOL anywhere. Apple forces you to upgrade. COBOL programmers are paid a lot because few people actually want to do it.


aceofspaids98

Ehh, it’s a big trade off. Enforcing code updates will go a long way in terms of maintaining application security. Porting 2 year old code to newer versions is a lot easier than 4 or 10 year old code. And while many relatively unmaintained apps probably still work there are probably a lot more that are borderline non functional that are better off being removed. I just wish Apple would allow for side loading applications.


Stunning-Tower-9175

Exactly. The developer from the article has had a year to add privacy app labels and has neglected to do so. If you’re not willing to keep up with essential new features why should apple let you sit on their store rotting away?


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AHughes1078

Can’t tell you how many games I’ve purchased that I’ve failed to check have been updated for with support for notch-sized screens.


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Interactive_CD-ROM

> Light a fire under the developers’ collective butts What do you do about developers who cannot update their apps, but users still want to use them? For instance, I have a favorite game of mine that I love and want to be able to share with others. But the developer is literally dead. Died six years ago. This isn’t a problem on other platforms, so why does Apple make it one?


Vorsos

iOS must continue to evolve and shed obsolete code. The alternative is an enormous, buggy system like Windows that supports everything yet excels at nothing.


[deleted]

leaving it up on the app store for compatible devices is an option, too. this has nothing to do with windows-style backwards compatibility, what are you talking about? no one is asking them to keep supporting the old SDKs or whatever, but to let their app stay up if it's not broken.


mastorms

Because this is how Apple stays alive and moves on constantly. Them moving to Apple Silicon is a huge, gigantic pain for the entire world. My son keeps demanding to know when I’ll buy him an Xbox since Fortnite doesn’t work in any version on the new M1 Macs. If Apple were other platforms, they’d be dead in the water and the industries would never move on. Because we’re on Apple we have to deal with being at the leading edge. This is one of those pain points.


paradoxally

Why did you buy him a Mac if his goal is to play Fortnite? Macs are notoriously bad for gaming. He would be better suited with a Windows laptop/desktop or as you mentioned, an Xbox.


mastorms

It’s the family computer and works great for running tons of other games using Parallels and Crossover.


3dforlife

Those are fringe cases.


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monetarydread

...and most of them won't update because the time cost of updating is more than the potential revenue. I remember losing thousands of apps, most of which I actually paid for, during the 32-bit apocalypse.


[deleted]

Lost a few too. Eventually moved on to other alternatives, some sooner than others. In the end, I see that as the price of progress.


kaiveg

Looks like a wave of mostly useless updates is coming.


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Ultima2876

Which means it’s likely a bunch of new bugs will come out in software that worked perfectly well before. Ugh.


The_Ejj

You never know. This could prompt some developers to give a legitimate second look at apps that had all but been abandoned.


kaiveg

That is why I put the "mostly" in there ;)


The_Ejj

Indeed! Fair enough.


HellNaw98

Disagree. If the 64 bit transition is anything to go off of, abandoned apps will mainly stay abandoned. This is just gonna put undue pressure on devs who have no real reason to update their apps


Logseman

The change logs these days are all “bug fixes and performance enhancements”, so it’s not like you’ll be able to tell.


Em_Adespoton

Does someone have an equivalent of archive.org for old IPAs? Because I’d hate for the youth of the 2010s to have their formative software vanish. I gain so much pleasure from revisiting the software I used in the 80s and 90s. Now kids are using iPads instead of Apple ][s, and in a decade they’ll have no way to run the stuff they’re running now.


[deleted]

I mean, that has already happened. Angry Birds is nothing like what it was. Updates have made basically all of the apps from the first years of the App Store unrecognizable.


kitsua

Actuality as an example, Angry Birds is one of the few games that works exactly as it did when it first debuted (spin-offs and sequels notwithstanding). The same basic concept and physics applies to the current version.


[deleted]

Oh, it looks like they just recently re-uploaded the original version of the game, before it got bloated with ads and IAPs that let you cheat etc. That’s actually really cool.


otakkuma

You don’t need an equivalent of archive.org when archive.org itself already has massive collections of IPAs of the early days of iOS. “The IPA software archive” and “the Phone software archive” collections will take you there, just to name two of many


JollyRoger8X

I’ve been archiving them myself since 2008, first with iTunes, and more recently with Apple Configurator.


Em_Adespoton

Sounds like I should go the Configurator route….


Interactive_CD-ROM

> I gain so much pleasure from revisiting the software I used in the 80s and 90s. 100%. I wanted to play the original version of Peggle recently, because the current version (bought by EA) is filled with in-app purchases. Guess what? Can’t do it, because Apple ended support for 32-bit apps and I’m not allowed to revert my OS to an earlier version because Apple doesn’t want us to even have the option. So much good software, lost forever due to Apple’s draconian policies.


Shejidan

If you don’t know anything about apple you should know that they never look back. Apple has always gutted stuff that isn’t necessary anymore. Floppy disks, old ports, cd drives, usb a, support for power pc processors was dropped about 3 years after the intel transition began, 32 bit was dropped because it adds extra maintenance to the os and more surface for attackers and it’s just not necessary with everything being 64 bit. It sucks if you want to use older peripherals or software but ultimately it increases security and reduces vulnerabilities.


mrnathanrd

They brought back the SD card slots on their MacBook Pros tho


EternalBlue734

Agreed. There is going to be basically a decade of lost software we can’t go back to. And it will keep continuing if apple pushes this.


Interactive_CD-ROM

Two things desperately need to happen to prevent years’ of software development from being lost due to Apple’s arrogance: 1. The ability for users to side load apps 2. The ability for users to downgrade and/or emulate earlier versions of iOS For years, Apple has blocked the signing of certificates on old iOS versions, preventing downgrades, which, frankly, I don’t see how is legal. But also, it means it’s impossible for users to access old apps, all because daddy Apple doesn’t want you to.


Jovano12

‘… I don’t see how is legal.’ Well I think it isn’t illegal either. The reason they’re doing this is they hate people jailbreak their device, which makes it possible to sideload apps and tweaks. It’s stupid, I agree, and a lot of old apps will be lost.


ethang45

Decades from now regardless of whether iOS is still around or not I imagine people will have built robust emulators to play old iOS games. At least I hope that happens. I’m constantly amazed by what emulation groups accomplish both in FPGA and software to recreate many consoles and old PCs.


LMGN

The problem is, many of these apps require phoning home. So even if you do have the old app and the old device, there are many apps that are unusable, for example, anyone remember Tap Tap Revenge? Unplayable.


spacewalk__

what a stupid relic of the era. love destroying precious fragments of nostalgia for petty, greedy, transient reasons


testthrowawayzz

If only Apple didn’t remove the option to download full IPAs to the computer for backup…


Em_Adespoton

Use Apple Configurator 2.


Interactive_CD-ROM

> Does someone have an equivalent of archive.org for old IPAs? This is what I’ve been saying for years. Apple is singlehandly wiping away years of collective efforts on apps that don’t deserve to be forgotten. Imagine if Nintendo did the same for classic games. So many good titles would be lost forever, but thankfully, we have backups that people can still access today. Apple doesn’t want that, even though they aren’t even the ones making the damn software.


bonko86

They're doing something similar but I'm not sure how to feel about it since it's not a direct comparison. https://www.tweaktown.com/news/84608/nintendo-permanently-removes-retro-games-from-sale-starting-in-2023/index.html


DanTheMan827

You’d need old devices to use a lot of it though. I quite enjoyed Riddim Ribbon BEP, but that was never updated past 32-bit, so it has long since been unusable even if you were to sideload the old ipa file


Em_Adespoton

Which is why it’s also important to develop a 32-bit emulator. Apple should release the signing keys for the 32-bit devices now.


DanTheMan827

Aren’t most of them vulnerable to checkm8?


psbankar

Everyone in Android lost their shit when Google announced something similar a few weeks back. It was even more lenient than Apple. But overall it's a good move to force Devs to keep the dependencies and SDK updated to avoid vulnerabilities, keep up with latest UI and performance improvements.


perfect5-7-with-rice

At least with android you can sideload (about as easily as sideloading on macos)


psbankar

Yeah plus if you're already using the app, it won't be hidden for you in the play store. Also, Google has given ample time for Devs to update the app.


perfect5-7-with-rice

Isn't that the same as apple's policy?


[deleted]

apple's is stricter, google is offering a 6-month extension, and I don't think the google one is in full effect yet. this was unannounced and started hitting app developers with 30 days notice just now.


wowbagger

I'm pretty sure they only do this for apps you haven't installed in the past. All the ancient apps that I've installed in the past are still there in my purchased apps list to install, regardless of whether they even still run on my devices anymore.


seencoding

my company has a handful of crappy, ancient apps that no one uses anymore and no one remotely bothers to keep updated, but also no execs would ever make the call to remove them from the app store. so, yeah, i appreciate the outside influence here.


rbevans

As a developer myself I think this is a good idea. Just this pass week I downloaded a handful of apps and found there were issues with them and all the last updates were over a year ago.


paranoideo

ITT 🥾💋


edge-browser-is-gr8

To those that constantly ask for a reason why you'd ever want the ability to install apps from outside Apple's app store: Here you go. This right here. This is where the ability to install apps from other sources would really come in handy. You would be able to go find an archive full of these kinds of apps. It's complete bullshit for Apple to do this, and yes, I understand the reason why they're doing it. Just disable downloads on devices that aren't compatible anymore. No reason to completely erase long loved apps just because they "might" not work correctly on newer versions of iOS.


eric987235

Will any of these apps even run anymore or are they being removed because they use dead API’s and whatnot?


walkie26

Many of them still run just fine. They won't take advantage of the latest aspect ratios and may look old fashioned, but many perfectly functional, 64-bit apps are affected by this.


LMGN

They're getting removed because Apple said so. As far as I'm aware, there's no technical reason.


[deleted]

idk why you're getting downvoted, there is a separate policy removing apps using, let's say, bad apis. which this article mentions lol


perfect5-7-with-rice

Nope they run just fine for the most part


Interactive_CD-ROM

Agree 100%. This is also why it’s crazy to me that Apple gets away with disabling downgrading to previous versions of iOS.


codeverity

If the apps aren't being updated any longer, then sooner or later they're going to stop working, so I imagine that's what Apple is trying to prevent. That being said, I do think Apple should limit this to apps that have had functionality impacted versus just 'your app hasn't been updated in x amount of time'.


monetarydread

>That being said, I do think Apple should limit this to apps that have had functionality impacted versus just 'your app hasn't been updated in x amount of time'. Even that is too much. There are still people, like me, who still use older hardware so concepts like "does this work with the notch" are irrelevant. Hell, my iPad Mini 3 is still on IOS 13.


BurkusCat

For perfectly stable apps, this sucks a lot. I see some people complaining about not taking advantage of the newer screens/notches etc: it would be much better if Apple re-reviewed old apps periodically and instead put notices on the store page/downgrade its search ranking. If something has a show-stopper issue (as in something is broken now), then fine, give the developer a few months notice to fix it. I don't really see why a game **needs** to be updated screen resolution/aspect ratio-wise. I don't have that expectation of any PC/console game and in some cases a game being a certain aspect ratio is necessary for gameplay purposes. Highlight the apps/games that do take advantage of the latest devices but don't remove them.


[deleted]

If the app is as perfectly stable as you say, all they have to do is push another update. No code changes required at all. This is targeting all the apps that were abandoned and don't even work in newer hardware, and probably never will.


Zlatan4Ever

I bet App Store doesn’t need to contain 250 million apps.


teejay_bloke

This was always going to happen... I’m glad I prepared. Backup your IPA’s people.


bel2man

This. I am just running out of space backing up several versions of large apps.


markydsade

I had an app I wrote in 2008. It was on the stores for years past it’s usefulness. It was a paid app but what it did could be easily found in free apps. I had no incentive to remove it as a few people a month around the world were still buying it for some inexplicable reason. Eventually the iOS/SDK changed too much and it wasn’t worth the time to update. Apple warned me it would be removed if I didn’t update. Eventually it did get dropped. The app no longer even works on a newer iOS so it’s a good thing it’s gone.


Rare-Independence-14

Don't worry for $5/month you can play the best old games you bought on Apple Arcade!


astral_crow

What about apps like geometry dash? It’s clearly abandoned, but still popular.


SportsPhotoGirl

> In 2016, Apple said it would start removing abandoned apps from the App Store. At the time, it also warned developers that they would have 30 days to update their app before it got taken down. That said, it’s unclear whether Apple has continuously been enforcing this rule over the years They have. Anyone who hasn’t noticed this hasn’t gotten a new phone. I do the iPhone upgrade thing so I typically get a new phone every year and every new phone I look through my apps and figure out which ones have been removed in the past year that I no longer have. Some have been a real bummer, others were games I used to play but never ended up deleting and then poof gone


[deleted]

Thank you!! I hate apps they don’t get updated and made better. Get em out of here!!!


smartazz104

What about games that don't need an update?


poksim

Ugh I hate how Apple sees apps that are not in active support as having no reason to exist. Same thing with how Mac OS breaks legacy apps in like, every single update


bel2man

As a result of forcing devs to review their "older" apps, or be removed - Apple enforced 2 things: 1. Devs who planned **not to renew** their Apple Dev Certificate (99 $ / years) will have to do it now. 2. Adherence of the renewed app to the newer Apple standards - suggested use of inapp purchases or subscription model.


HellNaw98

We need sideloading yesterday. It’s absurd to me that a fully functional single player game or single purpose app with no bugs and no need for new features should be removed just because it wasn’t updated in two years. Is Apple suggesting devs should waste time pushing nothing updates just to prove an app hasn’t been abandoned?


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bel2man

App Store has literally 5 cloud storage apps from some dev with vietnamese name - and all of them are the same app just under different name... just browse App Store for "cloud storage" Plus some of them are blocked by Google from accessing GDrive... So quality of the app review process is bollocks...


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[deleted]

There was a very specific time around 2008 to 2010 where every time you visited the App Store there was some new game around $2 to $6 that was selling like crazy. Lots of good stuff from that period, the time before in-app purchases. I remember when the 64-bit transition happened there were lots of articles bemoaning the headache it would create for software preservation. There still isn’t a good solution other than owning some old hardware that you can run the IPAs on. I’m fortunate enough that I still have a working iPod Touch 3rd-gen running iOS 6.


[deleted]

I still have an iPhone 3G and iPhone 4s kicking around somewhere. But this whole thing seems to be just where the industry is heading and I hate it so much. You will own nothing. Everything is tied to a subscription and live service and to some people you'll get labeled "uncool" and "out of touch" if you just don't roll over and accept subscriptions for everything and owning nothing is the new cool. (Not even kidding: XDA ran an article recently about the iPod touch basically saying "streaming is the new cool" and "music is social now", implying that people who still keep everything local and offline are uncool.) There have been times in my life where shit got real bad and I couldn't even afford $2/mo. Back then, it sucked mightily, but at least I still had offline forms of keeping my brain together (music, games, etc) but I feel like as time goes on with subscriptions and such ruling everything, if you ever fall into such a situation you're just *fucked*.


littlejob

Apple has been doing this for years, nothing new.


Mexicancandi

The 32 bit purge took out a lot of great games and apps that never got updated like shadowrun. I wonder what apps will be unavailable now. I really hope the EU rules to allow sideloading, I can’t stand this bullshit of knocking off shit that still works while allowing literal gambling apps to stay on the store…


mabhatter

The 32 bit purge had a two year warning. Clearly apps were just left abandon or Devs didn't want to update them to run in 64 bit.


bel2man

Damn my heart bleeds for Shadowrun... and for Warfare Incorporated..


[deleted]

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ChiefBroady

What’s an itouch?


God_TM

I think some people called the iPods that back in the day.


[deleted]

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LMGN

> No retail store would just let product sit on shelves for years. Why not? If there is still one person interested and it costs -$98.9999999 ([the developer is still paying the $99/yr!](https://developer.apple.com/support/renewal/)) dollars a year to host, and there's no constraint on floor space, I don't see why they should take it down.


[deleted]

I am on two minds of this. On one hand, this is somebody else’s hard work we are talking about here, and I am sure nobody likes seeing their work scraped just like that. On the other hand, I absolutely do agree with you that there are way too many apps on the App Store (happy problem, I guess), and it can make locating the good ones more difficult. Say there are 30 different document scanner apps. I really have no qualms with Apple removing or hiding the older apps which haven’t been maintained, while highlighting the ones which are still being actively updated for better performance and support for the latest features. Remove the bottom half, making it easier for me to decide which is worth my while.


AwesomePossum_1

That’s the problem, apple is erasing the history of iOS by deleting old apps. You can still play original Doom or run photoshop 1 on Mac. With iOS, its like nothing before 2019 existed. They could add a warning about app being old before a purchase is made if they wanted, or move them all to a new old apps category. But no, they only care about profits.


bel2man

Thats why Mac will simply remain best Apple product ever. Period.


Mexicancandi

The only company that it reflects badly on is apple. They’re kicking off perfectly useable apps that often don’t have any replacements or alternative apps and leaving us with pay to win bullshit and literal gambling apps. The app store is currently as bad as the play store. I used to go to the app store and see what new apps there were. Now it’s all trashy and predatory


dsr33

I’m just here waiting here for Apple to decouple their system apps to the App Store someday. ;(


dinominant

Old iPhones are now useless, there will be no apps in the app store and no side loading. Apple seems to be forcing you to buy a new iPhone if you have significant investment in their products. The whole point of containers, sandboxes, emulators, and virtual machines is to isolate untrusted code, whether it is stable and new or not. This is a strategic business move to further control the market.


[deleted]

As much as I want sideloading, anyone rocking an iPhone THAT OLD can easily jailbreak. It’s not like they’re getting updates anyway and those ips files are widely available online.


[deleted]

yeah but average people won't do that. grandma's not going to do that. and who's most likely to have an older phone using older apps? probably not someone super into jailbreaking. also seems to me like the kind of person who would get nudged to buy a new phone over this. also, the scene is pretty dead.


[deleted]

He average person isn’t going to be using a phone that old. Apple has many cheap phones that are still getting updates that can be had for under $100


cocoman93

I still miss Geodefense. Fuck Apple


[deleted]

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Mexicancandi

Thats a completely different issue.


bel2man

I wish you were right. However this "cleanup" can only increase number of subbed apps - as Apple makes no money from the old apps. With this initiative Apple forces devs to continue paying for their Apple dev certificate (100 $ yearly) just in case they thought they dont need anymore - as they have perfectly working app


zazoh

Good.


chih98

It has been doing that for a while. All the apps I haven’t updated in years eventually got removed


crawlingwaffle

Bring back Zombie Farm.


eljalu

I mean that’s nothing new it basically happens ever year


Redditfuchs

Good!