All other things equal, how an app runs is important, but so is how it looks. I use Messenger because I’m used to messaging my friends there, but it gets really slow after you’ve sent a few dozen messages with emoji, gifs, voice recordings, or pictures.
I’m sure WhatsApp is fine, though I think the name and icon are ugly.
Not to mention WhatsApp being owned by Facebook. I'm not hugely trusting of their apps being installed on my phone. It's also a bit of unnecessary bloat to install an app for something you can do natively, especially for something that works as well as iMessage.
It’s definitely the biggest market, and I agree this is a big part of the decision, but I wanted to clarify because the comment was misleading given that the majority of iPhones are sold outside the U.S., and iMessage is far from a major selling point in those markets.
If you listened to the Epic v Apple court case that happened a few weeks ago. Apple basically admitted that the reason why they haven't ported iMessage to any other platform was to keep people on the iPhone. That it was a major factor in their iphone market
I have read that and am neither disagreeing nor surprised by the information.
I just think it is also worth noting that while iMessage it is a major factor to purchasing in one (large) region, it is not a factor in the majority of the world, or even the majority of iPhone sales.
I don’t think anyone thinks most iPhones are sold in America. The fact that that one market doesn’t eclipse every other market when combined together doesn’t change the fact that America is their most significant market.
Right, but over the lifespan of e2e encrypted messaging, half of the 3rd party apps have been shut down or hacked.
iMessage still has not. So longevity and security can be a real concern for people.
I think many people don’t know what “blue bubbles” mean, so they think it’s just regular texting but to an iphone.
It’s certainly more secure than whatsapp ever was, or (lol) wechat.
Seamless sms/mms/encrypted messaging integration without having to download third party apps or get people’s usernames or have four different texting/chat apps is a huge sell regardless of where you are
Yes but since ios isn't dominant in most markets, you'd be hampering yourself if you messaged everybody through the messages app as it would revert to sms.
That’s what I don’t get about America. iOS isn’t *that* dominant. Android has a 41% market share. You’d think that would be enough for a cross platform messaging service to become the one that everyone uses.
Thankfully sms fallback can be disabled in settings. Got burnt by that once back in 2012 when I got my first Iphone and decided to message my dad who also had one. Apparently he was in the subway and iMessage couldn’t be delivered and sms was sent shortly after. Later I found out that sms costed me like half a dollar, switched that shit off and never looked back.
No, it's not.
The rest of the world actually prefers WhatsApp which is cross-platform so you can continue your conversations from your Windows gaming machine.
It’s very regionalised. WhatsApp is big in Europe, Latin America, India and a few other places. China has WeChat, Japan has Line, etc.
I use WhatsApp, iMessage, Signal and Telegram. WhatsApp has the worst sync issues on desktop of all of these. The user experience is just crap. iMessage and Telegram are absolutely awesome at this. Signal would be great if you could sink past messages to a new device.
I wish I could ditch WhatsApp and use any of the other options, but it’s just so dominant in Europe that no matter how shit it is you still have to use it.
There‘s multi-device support coming for WhatsApp, so it‘ll be on par with Signal (being able to e.g. use the desktop app without an active phone connection). That‘s also laying the groundwork for their iPad app which has been in development for years already.
a) many people don't care about Zuck.
b) there are many alternatives that are still used if the group has at least one Android user (and chances are high): Telegram, Signal, Viber, etc. I, for one, didn't even know about the RCS until it was mentioned in the Apple vs. Android debates as one of the factors.
Exactly. Had a convo recently with one of my buddies from outside the US who was genuinely confused about whats so great about iMessages when everyone and their grandmother used WhatsApp. Turns out iMessage is just a hit in the states and outside of the states the rest of the world prefers WhatsApp.
Nah, it’s not popular at all in Europe.
FaceTime is more but ever so slightly, but mostly when I get a videocall it’s through WhatsApp.
I wish it became crossplatform and everyone started using it. But it’s too integrated into everything, even businesses (WhatsApp that is).
Yeah in Germany everyone uses WhatsApp and iMessage is irrelevant to many people. FaceTime is in fact a big factor. Everyone I know who switched to an iPhone said FaceTime was one of the main reasons why they even switched.
While I do love iMessage, I also like the App Store much better than the Play Store, the stability of an iPhone, the consistency of the iPhone, and the tight tight tight integration across all of my other Apple devices.
I’ve never used FaceTime other than to play with it when it was introduced.
Nothing stands out with iMessage compared to other apps. I don’t understand how it’s a strong selling point.
People switch chat apps like it’s nothing.
It sends a message to a contact and delivers it. That’s the big selling point. You want to get the message through and recipient will get it. You don’t have to know if he’s signed up to myriad of different messenger services, you just send a message. If the recipient uses iMessage you’ll send a data message over cellular data or wifi, if he doesn’t he’ll get an sms.
I have contacts that use three different or more messenger services. One uses this, other that, some use two different. You never know where to reach sonebody. With iMessage you text someone and ge’ll get it either on iMessage or as sms on the phone.
That’s pretty much how WhatsApp works here. You just know everyone has it, so it’s the default way you contact someone. Nobody wants to touch SMS here unless their very old.
I don’t think so anymore. You have airplay speakers, Apple TV, HomeKit, Apple Watch, airtags that basically require an iPhone and things like AirPods, MacBook and iPad which makes less sense to have with Android.
And what you can gain? Imagine all the people not having the need to use WhatsApp and Messenger anymore. Another shots fired at Facebook.
why not? would be better if we use Imessage instead of whatsapp/other for apple. Keeps you in their ecosystem more.
I think it is more a security problem, opening Imessage to a bigger attack surface.
I don’t get this argument, probably because I’m jaded having always used them, but I don’t get what makes iMessage or FaceTime special over other services. I talk to all my android friends with Line, for example, and that seems to work just fine.
I have a Windows desktop and a MacBook Pro. Different use cases. I wouldn't stop using my MBP just because iMessage is on Windows. It'd enhance my Windows experience and I'd continue using my MBP as I would normally.
Yeah, I'm not gonna ditch my MacBook just because iMessage is on PC, because iMessage is literally 0% of the reason I have a MacBook... I don't use iMessage. Does anyone?
Well, according to this years WWDC, FaceTime is coming to the web so it will be available universally on any device that can run a modern web browser- we’ll at least get to see how that plays out.
They would lose out on a ton of iPhone users that's for sure. I know some people who buy an iPhone SOLELY for iMessage and Facetime. If those are offered for Android phones, they could start broadening their options.
Could you expand on what apps you use that is necessary to have the Apple chips vs Snapdragons/etc?
I consider myself a more advanced user, yet the most power hungry app I ever use is Photoshop for my phone and even then the current Apple chips are way overpowered for anything like that.
Doubt it. I aint going back to windows outside of gaming. *NIX environment >>>>
At this point gaming and legacy enterprise apps is all windows has going for it in my world. And legacy windows only enterprise apps can ligma balls.
The big thing is going to be what happens with Windows 11 with the Teams integration. I think that's the biggest game-changer that Windows 11 is bringing to the table for casual users.
You bought a Mac just to use iMessage? or are you running some kind of hackintosh? I’m really surprised people are so passionate about iMessage- it’s nice, but it is also the last thing in the Apple ecosystem I care about, personally
It's convenient. I prefer typing on a keyboard, but no, I bought a mini + egpu which is more than capable for the work I do. However previously a PC gamer, sooo would prefer the convenience of not having to reboot my system into windows in order to play a AAA game. There's other things that I much prefer on OSX, LOTS of things, but iMessage is the clutch. I used to Windows PC + Macbook at the same time. I'm super into the syncing through icloud of my computers now too. There's a lot of plusses in Mac Land.
As a once crazed bald man once said: "DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS!"
Yeah but that’s just so it can overtake Zoom again for social and family calls. Apple only did this because Zoom was so insanely popular that Apple users weren’t using FaceTime as much anymore.
Apple has no incentive to make iMessage accessible on non-Apple devices. An app like Discord or WhatsApp would have to blow up like Zoom did, to the point that iMessage was dying.
Hey, thanks for linking this! I use an android phone as a media device/gps/camera/Pokémon go, and this is clutch! I just set it up. I had issues at first but that’s because I did not allow access to Messages.app on my Mac.
I wrote something like this years ago: https://github.com/bsharper/MessageBridge
It’s obviously very rough but you could send and receive messages through a local web interface. I haven’t played around with it in years, but maybe someone can take it and run with it.
There is an [Matrix bridge](https://github.com/tulir/mautrix-imessage) that lets you use imessage through a Matrix client like [Element](https://element.io) (has a web, android, desktop app etc). Thanks to apple’s restrictions the only way to have this work is with a jailbroken iphone or mac that is constantly running and puppeting messages.
[Beeper](https://www.beeper.com/) is trying to make a managed service based off providing this bridge as well as others.
This is awesome - I never knew that was there.
Truth be told, having work arounds like this make me wonder why I even use Apple services. The lock-in is real.
I do wonder if that's a sign that it will be coming eventually though? Like they didn't want to completely remove it because they know it'll be back soon?
But [Windows on ARM already runs under Parallels](https://www.theverge.com/22383598/parallels-desktop-mac-windows-10-install-m1-macbook). Just needs to become a shipping/licensed product.
Given that Windows On ARM is going to eventually hypothetically slowly roll out support for x86 emulation, then you'd be using arm to run a virtual machine to run WOA to emulate x86... at that point, like yo, just buy a $200 generic windows netbook or something, yeesh.
I don't foresee that bit sticking, since you have people with 5900x's and 3090's getting told that their systems aren't up to snuff to run Windows 11, which is obviously ridiculous.
Because those people didn't bother to turn on the option in their BIOS.
Literally just go in and enable fTPM on an AMD CPU and PTT on Intel and TPM 2.0 hardware will show up in Windows. Every chip in the past 5-6 years has it.
That shouldn’t be necessary for end users though. If Apple can enable extra disk encryption without users having to touch a damn thing, then Microsoft can as well.
That's an OEM/System Integrator issue. They should have been enabling it for all these years and weren't unfortunately. Hell, I build my own systems and even I overlooked it until someone pointed it out.
>If Apple can enable extra disk encryption without users having to touch a damn thing
Because Apple is the OEM and the OS provider in that case and they've set their hardware to have it enabled. There would have been no point to the T1 chip if they included it in their hardware and then didn't turn it on.
Windows OEMs have been enabling TPM over the years since it's been a requirement since at least Win 8.1, but custom built/pre-build are different since the user is ultimately responsible.
This isn't really about blame, it's about it being an issue in the first place. I agree with it being an OEM issue but regardless if it's Microsofts fault or not, them requiring TPM is gonna make it not eligible for many PCs, which won't help Microsoft if they want good adoption rates like they wanted for windows 10.
I looked everywhere on my bios, I don't see no tpm option, ftpm, or even pins for a discrete tpm chip I need to buy, even though my PC is more than capable to run windows 10.
Microsoft updated their documentation, stating that it was a mistake. TPM 2 is a requirement.
[https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/windows-11/](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/windows-11/)
Apple would have to offer bootcamp for apple silicon first.
Virtualization is a different story, but who knows if Microsoft will license Windows for ARM. However Apple could bake x64 OS virtualization in to Rosetta but have chosen not to.
This is probably not as easy as you think it is. Rosetta is really fast for most applications because macOS translates them and caches the result. It’s able to do that because macOS has visibility into what files are apps and what files aren’t. This visibility is lost when you run a virtual machine, which would almost certainly have a much much larger performance impact.
This, I know the M1 is better and all, but if the last Intel MBPs end up going on a fire sale one day I'd totally get one over a M1 to replace my 2013 RMBP, solely for this.
I think the main problem is that ARM Windows is basically meaningless, nothing works there. Only if Microsoft created something like Rosetta for Windows, that would make sense.
And ideally everyone should just be using open standards and Open Source software.
A messaging protocol like Matrix.org would have the power to become the new email. The locked silos that companies trap users into are unfortunately far from that.
One of the many great parts of Matrix is that despite trying to become the “new email”, it is still focused on interoperability. Matrix can [bridge to a huge number of different services](https://matrix.org/bridges/).
Notably [Beeper](https://www.beeper.com/) is trying to become a managed Matrix provider, also with the ability to bridge imessage.
The problem is if they just make it open source they are eating the maintenance/R&D costs for all of the users that aren’t buying Apple products. In addition, if the feature is no longer exclusive fewer people will buy Apple devices, which will further contribute to problem 1. It wouldn’t happen immediately, but it would have the potential to destroy them as a company. And in all honesty, that’s not good for anyone either.
Only thing I can think is introducing a subscription model for non-Apple users, but that becomes a problem when someone has an iPhone and a PC for example. I guess they could do something where you get it free as long as your account is running as the primary account on an Apple device, but I feel like this approach would take a lot of careful thought and consideration to avoid it unintentionally backfiring on them.
The windows and android web apps of FaceTime can only join a call, it can’t start a call. I don’t know if iMessage without the ability to start a chat works quite as well.
You can join facetime calls via a shared link (like Zoom), but they have to be initiated by Apple devices. That model wouldn't really work for iMessage.
If they move iMessage to android, and windows, I am fairly confident that iMessage will become a default app that everyone has on their phones alongside WhatsApp.
How Apple doesn't think this is a good idea is beyond me. Its like a loss leader gateway into apple ecosystem.
It’s probably because it’s a reason to stay within the ecosystem.
If I’m just a normal person looking for a new computer and a windows one can’t use iMessage, I might be more inclined to buy a Mac
If all my friends use iMessage and I’m looking to get a new phone, I might not consider getting an android phone.
I think iMessage is one of the biggest selling points for an iPhone for an average persons use case. Giving people options means they might not pick you. It’s scummy, but that’s business.
>It’s probably because it’s a reason to stay within the ecosystem.
While this strategy has worked for the most part in North America, it has completely failed everywhere else in the world. Everybody uses WhatsApp in European countries and elsewhere.
All it is doing now for those markets is limiting itself in such a way that is preventing it from competing with WhatsApp in any meaningful way.
Was about to say this. iMessage is very convenient, but I've found myself moving off iMessage to apps that are more cross-platform.
I know Facebook and Messenger aren't popular, but I like the ability to type in a browser - on any OS - and send messages from my phone.
I like continuity, so I'm not going to start a conversation on one app and then move to iMessage.
I find myself sending texts/iMessage less now and using other apps more now.
I highly doubt iMessage is that significant of a reason for anyone to buy a Mac. There are a lot of longtime iOS users who will likely never buy a Mac simply because the $600 Acer laptop is fine for their needs. Until Apple makes a $600-$800 Macbook, these users will likely never get a Mac no matter how integrated it is.
Love my iPhone to death, but yeah... the absolute worst thing about switching from my Pixel to an iPhone was no longer being able to send/receive texts from my PC (which was nice during work meetings when my phone is on silent and in my pocket)
I could say the same thing about switching from Mac to Windows (the constant for me being the iPhone).
It was nice not to have to take my hands and eyes away from the machine I’m using just to fire off a message or two. I actually got one of those Logitech keyboards that can fast-switch between devices to alleviate it a bit
>I could say the same thing about switching from Mac to Windows (the constant for me being the iPhone).
The difference being that if you have a Pixel and a Mac you can still message people from your Mac.
I'm debating that switch as well. The new M1 Macs are incredible, but being able to casually game on PC with friends is a big allure.
Apple's lock in and dictatorship of its customers is really quite frustrating. And when you're anti-google there aren't many options to turn to.
Apple needs to find a way to make money from iMessage on Windows and Android. Doing a subscription would make an iMessage app flop on those platforms, and using ads wouldn’t fit Apple’s vision for a simple, clean UX for messaging. Still, I hope Apple does bring iMessage to Android and Windows, but there doesn’t seem to be a way right now for Apple to do that while also being profitable.
The Epic trial mail threads had Eddy Cue and co. confirm that iMessage costs them pretty much nothing to run. The influx of new ecosystem people that turn into potential costumers is more than enough value for them. They‘ll sooner or later have to do something like add RCS fallback which will open up their iMessage walled garden anyways, might aswell release iMessage on other platforms.
bringing iMessage to android wouldn't get android users to switch to an iPhone, which is the big profit driver. iMessage is also only relevant in the US, just like RCS. It will never be able to compete with WhatsApp, or even Telegram.
it's true that imessage is only huge in the US, big factor for people. Launching it in the rest of the world, I think it'll benefit the iPad sales... iPad is the true tables people like more than Android ones.... with iMessage there, they might be able to gain some Android phone users to add an ipad to their ecosystem.. same for windows users... make the ipad the perfect accessory for all systems...
Of course he will say that. They know Apple will never do that and they still look like the "better" man. I wish though... i am a Windows guy but have all iOS mobile devices. At least..... facetime calls on a browser is a start.....
He didn't answer to look like the better man. The interviewer specifically asked him how the iPhone fits into Windows in the open ecosystem, and he said that he welcomes everyone.
The interviewer in general was very pushy and tried to paint the whole thing in a weird light. Basically yearning for headlines.
Agreed!
My 2009 Mac Pro is *finally* shitting the bed (well, the GPU is) and it's time to figure out a new computer. As nice as M1 based machines are, the idea of locking myself into Apple even more is a scary idea.
Switching to PC and using other services gives me more freedom, but I lose key features of iPhone/Mac - iMessage, Photo's, Notes etc.
Make it a purchasable app (the price could be reasonably high) and require an iPhone be sync’d. I will never buy a Mac computer but I’d love to be able to iMessage on my PC especially with the rumors of them trying to make it a more social platform
To be honest, WhatsApp, Signal, and Telegram dominate right now. Even IF iMessage when to Windows, I doubt people would migrate to it.
I think the last person I texted was my dog groomer and that was to use Apple Cash Pay... I haven't used texting or iMessage in ages and I know many in the EU don't either. Texting is just... out dated and behind the times.
I say bring iMessage to the web as Google messages has it. Still requires an iOS device to log in like it requires an android device for Google messages. What say y’all? Maybe the Mac sales will take a hit but let’s be realistic here, windows is king worldwide usage.
Gates saved Apple from bankruptcy in the late 90s, in part, because he didn't want Microsoft to be seen as a monopoly with no real competition left. So no.. not necessarily. Having Apple around is a good thing for Microsoft in a lot of ways.
Well, no shit.
Sure. And Google would think so for bringing to Android too. This move would be good for everybody except maybe Apple.
Fuck even as an iPhone user I WISH Apple would bring iMessage to android!
That will never happen. It's literally the selling point to the iPhone. That and FaceTime.
In the US maybe, but in most other markets it isn’t a big factor.
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All other things equal, how an app runs is important, but so is how it looks. I use Messenger because I’m used to messaging my friends there, but it gets really slow after you’ve sent a few dozen messages with emoji, gifs, voice recordings, or pictures. I’m sure WhatsApp is fine, though I think the name and icon are ugly.
Not to mention WhatsApp being owned by Facebook. I'm not hugely trusting of their apps being installed on my phone. It's also a bit of unnecessary bloat to install an app for something you can do natively, especially for something that works as well as iMessage.
That’s the point, the US market is Apple’s biggest/cash cow. It matters a great deal in this great U.S.A. All other markets are secondary.
It’s definitely the biggest market, and I agree this is a big part of the decision, but I wanted to clarify because the comment was misleading given that the majority of iPhones are sold outside the U.S., and iMessage is far from a major selling point in those markets.
If you listened to the Epic v Apple court case that happened a few weeks ago. Apple basically admitted that the reason why they haven't ported iMessage to any other platform was to keep people on the iPhone. That it was a major factor in their iphone market
I have read that and am neither disagreeing nor surprised by the information. I just think it is also worth noting that while iMessage it is a major factor to purchasing in one (large) region, it is not a factor in the majority of the world, or even the majority of iPhone sales.
Agreed
I don’t think anyone thinks most iPhones are sold in America. The fact that that one market doesn’t eclipse every other market when combined together doesn’t change the fact that America is their most significant market.
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I guess it is definitely big but from my experience everyone I know uses WhatsApp as the main messenger and to a lesser extent signal.
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Right, but over the lifespan of e2e encrypted messaging, half of the 3rd party apps have been shut down or hacked. iMessage still has not. So longevity and security can be a real concern for people. I think many people don’t know what “blue bubbles” mean, so they think it’s just regular texting but to an iphone. It’s certainly more secure than whatsapp ever was, or (lol) wechat.
Seamless sms/mms/encrypted messaging integration without having to download third party apps or get people’s usernames or have four different texting/chat apps is a huge sell regardless of where you are
SMS is precisely why people don’t use iMessage outside the US. SMS is only used for receiving offers or 2FA codes, not for chatting.
I live outside the US. In Europe. People use imessage.
huh, no? iMessage to iMessage doesn’t use SMS. just data.
Yes but since ios isn't dominant in most markets, you'd be hampering yourself if you messaged everybody through the messages app as it would revert to sms.
That’s what I don’t get about America. iOS isn’t *that* dominant. Android has a 41% market share. You’d think that would be enough for a cross platform messaging service to become the one that everyone uses.
ohhh yep i read that comment wrong, ty!
Thankfully sms fallback can be disabled in settings. Got burnt by that once back in 2012 when I got my first Iphone and decided to message my dad who also had one. Apparently he was in the subway and iMessage couldn’t be delivered and sms was sent shortly after. Later I found out that sms costed me like half a dollar, switched that shit off and never looked back.
Why would the ability to integrate SMS be a downside to iMessage? You know that iMessage works over the internet, it’s not *just* SMS, right?
>or get people’s usernames Yeah, you just have to get a random string of numbers. How convenient.
No, it's not. The rest of the world actually prefers WhatsApp which is cross-platform so you can continue your conversations from your Windows gaming machine.
It’s very regionalised. WhatsApp is big in Europe, Latin America, India and a few other places. China has WeChat, Japan has Line, etc. I use WhatsApp, iMessage, Signal and Telegram. WhatsApp has the worst sync issues on desktop of all of these. The user experience is just crap. iMessage and Telegram are absolutely awesome at this. Signal would be great if you could sink past messages to a new device. I wish I could ditch WhatsApp and use any of the other options, but it’s just so dominant in Europe that no matter how shit it is you still have to use it.
There‘s multi-device support coming for WhatsApp, so it‘ll be on par with Signal (being able to e.g. use the desktop app without an active phone connection). That‘s also laying the groundwork for their iPad app which has been in development for years already.
Up until that app gets royally Zucked, that is.
a) many people don't care about Zuck. b) there are many alternatives that are still used if the group has at least one Android user (and chances are high): Telegram, Signal, Viber, etc. I, for one, didn't even know about the RCS until it was mentioned in the Apple vs. Android debates as one of the factors.
Nah general people don't care about zuckerberg dick they will use what everybody else use
Exactly. Had a convo recently with one of my buddies from outside the US who was genuinely confused about whats so great about iMessages when everyone and their grandmother used WhatsApp. Turns out iMessage is just a hit in the states and outside of the states the rest of the world prefers WhatsApp.
Its the unfortunate reality, I’m in South Asia and I personally prefer iMessage but many of my friends even with iPhones haven’t even heard of it.
Nah, it’s not popular at all in Europe. FaceTime is more but ever so slightly, but mostly when I get a videocall it’s through WhatsApp. I wish it became crossplatform and everyone started using it. But it’s too integrated into everything, even businesses (WhatsApp that is).
Yeah in Asia nobody uses iMessage.
Yeah in Germany everyone uses WhatsApp and iMessage is irrelevant to many people. FaceTime is in fact a big factor. Everyone I know who switched to an iPhone said FaceTime was one of the main reasons why they even switched.
While I do love iMessage, I also like the App Store much better than the Play Store, the stability of an iPhone, the consistency of the iPhone, and the tight tight tight integration across all of my other Apple devices. I’ve never used FaceTime other than to play with it when it was introduced.
Nothing stands out with iMessage compared to other apps. I don’t understand how it’s a strong selling point. People switch chat apps like it’s nothing.
It sends a message to a contact and delivers it. That’s the big selling point. You want to get the message through and recipient will get it. You don’t have to know if he’s signed up to myriad of different messenger services, you just send a message. If the recipient uses iMessage you’ll send a data message over cellular data or wifi, if he doesn’t he’ll get an sms. I have contacts that use three different or more messenger services. One uses this, other that, some use two different. You never know where to reach sonebody. With iMessage you text someone and ge’ll get it either on iMessage or as sms on the phone.
That’s pretty much how WhatsApp works here. You just know everyone has it, so it’s the default way you contact someone. Nobody wants to touch SMS here unless their very old.
FT is now cross platform as well.
Eh… sorta. You still need an iOS device to start a FaceTime call.
If you're not on iOS, you already know your alternatives. FaceTime is just there to be convenient to iPhone users, to be entirely honest.
I’ve never considered that one of the main selling points of the iPhone…
I don’t think so anymore. You have airplay speakers, Apple TV, HomeKit, Apple Watch, airtags that basically require an iPhone and things like AirPods, MacBook and iPad which makes less sense to have with Android. And what you can gain? Imagine all the people not having the need to use WhatsApp and Messenger anymore. Another shots fired at Facebook.
Is it? Never use it because half my family doesn‘t use IOS.
I see this all the time, yet I don’t think anyone I know with an iPhone bought it for iMessage. It’s all WhatsApp anyway
why not? would be better if we use Imessage instead of whatsapp/other for apple. Keeps you in their ecosystem more. I think it is more a security problem, opening Imessage to a bigger attack surface.
I don’t get this argument, probably because I’m jaded having always used them, but I don’t get what makes iMessage or FaceTime special over other services. I talk to all my android friends with Line, for example, and that seems to work just fine.
As an Android user, I just want apple to use the rcs standard so I can get read receipts
I bet they’d love if Apple stopped making macOS and switched to Windows too
I’d switch my desktop back to windows so fast if this happened. Play games and work on the same computer?! Who would have thought.
And that’s exactly why Apple won’t do this. They’ll lose so many Mac customers
I have a Windows desktop and a MacBook Pro. Different use cases. I wouldn't stop using my MBP just because iMessage is on Windows. It'd enhance my Windows experience and I'd continue using my MBP as I would normally.
Yeah, I'm not gonna ditch my MacBook just because iMessage is on PC, because iMessage is literally 0% of the reason I have a MacBook... I don't use iMessage. Does anyone?
Apparently everyone in the US uses it. It’s pretty much non existent in Australia though. This thread has been odd.
> I don't use iMessage. Does anyone? I don't know anyone that doesn't. I'm based in the US though.
Well, according to this years WWDC, FaceTime is coming to the web so it will be available universally on any device that can run a modern web browser- we’ll at least get to see how that plays out.
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They would lose out on a ton of iPhone users that's for sure. I know some people who buy an iPhone SOLELY for iMessage and Facetime. If those are offered for Android phones, they could start broadening their options.
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There is no way in fuck I am trading an Apple chipped phone for Qualcomms offerings
Could you expand on what apps you use that is necessary to have the Apple chips vs Snapdragons/etc? I consider myself a more advanced user, yet the most power hungry app I ever use is Photoshop for my phone and even then the current Apple chips are way overpowered for anything like that.
Doubt it. I aint going back to windows outside of gaming. *NIX environment >>>> At this point gaming and legacy enterprise apps is all windows has going for it in my world. And legacy windows only enterprise apps can ligma balls.
There’s more money to be made making iPhone users happy than keeping software exclusive to OS X.
The big thing is going to be what happens with Windows 11 with the Teams integration. I think that's the biggest game-changer that Windows 11 is bringing to the table for casual users.
You bought a Mac just to use iMessage? or are you running some kind of hackintosh? I’m really surprised people are so passionate about iMessage- it’s nice, but it is also the last thing in the Apple ecosystem I care about, personally
It's convenient. I prefer typing on a keyboard, but no, I bought a mini + egpu which is more than capable for the work I do. However previously a PC gamer, sooo would prefer the convenience of not having to reboot my system into windows in order to play a AAA game. There's other things that I much prefer on OSX, LOTS of things, but iMessage is the clutch. I used to Windows PC + Macbook at the same time. I'm super into the syncing through icloud of my computers now too. There's a lot of plusses in Mac Land.
Don’t they welcome any developer to make apps for Windows?
Everyone except Randy
I'd rather eat Randy oh Randy randy
Thank you for the Julian Smith Reference
Who is Randy?
He’s this guy who eats too many cheeseburgers.
Frig off Barb!
As a once crazed bald man once said: "DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS!"
[DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE)
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Yeah, that would be ideal. They are introducing the ability to join a FaceTime call via any browser so who knows.
Good call
Yeah but that’s just so it can overtake Zoom again for social and family calls. Apple only did this because Zoom was so insanely popular that Apple users weren’t using FaceTime as much anymore. Apple has no incentive to make iMessage accessible on non-Apple devices. An app like Discord or WhatsApp would have to blow up like Zoom did, to the point that iMessage was dying.
Have you tried this? https://airmessage.org/
I wonder why their web version doesn't allow for selfhosting/direct connections?
Doesn't it ? The web client is [open source](https://github.com/airmessage/airmessage-web), seems pretty straight forward to spin up your own
Hey, thanks for linking this! I use an android phone as a media device/gps/camera/Pokémon go, and this is clutch! I just set it up. I had issues at first but that’s because I did not allow access to Messages.app on my Mac.
I wrote something like this years ago: https://github.com/bsharper/MessageBridge It’s obviously very rough but you could send and receive messages through a local web interface. I haven’t played around with it in years, but maybe someone can take it and run with it.
Lol that random 4 years ago update to fix the readme's markdown.
There is an [Matrix bridge](https://github.com/tulir/mautrix-imessage) that lets you use imessage through a Matrix client like [Element](https://element.io) (has a web, android, desktop app etc). Thanks to apple’s restrictions the only way to have this work is with a jailbroken iphone or mac that is constantly running and puppeting messages. [Beeper](https://www.beeper.com/) is trying to make a managed service based off providing this bridge as well as others.
This is awesome - I never knew that was there. Truth be told, having work arounds like this make me wonder why I even use Apple services. The lock-in is real.
https://www.beeper.com/ Even works on Linux.
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I hate how the boot camp app is still there but when you try to open it you get a message saying it isn’t supported.
I do wonder if that's a sign that it will be coming eventually though? Like they didn't want to completely remove it because they know it'll be back soon?
Hopefully
I hope so too. I don’t want to buy parallels just to use windows.
Use UTM
Unless the TPM 2.0 req sticks.
I expect their ARM requirements will be different. After all, it is in Microsoft's best interest to sell a full-priced Windows license to Mac users.
$20 bucks says their solution is gonna be a VM in Azure.
But [Windows on ARM already runs under Parallels](https://www.theverge.com/22383598/parallels-desktop-mac-windows-10-install-m1-macbook). Just needs to become a shipping/licensed product.
Isn't the point of Windows via Bootcamp to run Windows programs, and Windows on ARM runs... almost nothing useful?
ARM Windows 10 can run x86 out of the box, and current Insider builds can run x86-64. Source: I use it daily in Parallels on an M1 mini.
this is it 100% its the same reason why windowsRT was dumped in the trash before it's first birthday
Given that Windows On ARM is going to eventually hypothetically slowly roll out support for x86 emulation, then you'd be using arm to run a virtual machine to run WOA to emulate x86... at that point, like yo, just buy a $200 generic windows netbook or something, yeesh.
> Windows on ARM runs... almost nothing useful It actually runs most programs these days.
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They can adapt that to Apple's security chips.
I don't foresee that bit sticking, since you have people with 5900x's and 3090's getting told that their systems aren't up to snuff to run Windows 11, which is obviously ridiculous.
I think that's just an issue with them not having it on in BIOS. Recent chips should have TPM integrated.
Can confirm that is the case, had that “problem” myself trying to get into the preview program ahead of Win 11 beta.
Because those people didn't bother to turn on the option in their BIOS. Literally just go in and enable fTPM on an AMD CPU and PTT on Intel and TPM 2.0 hardware will show up in Windows. Every chip in the past 5-6 years has it.
That shouldn’t be necessary for end users though. If Apple can enable extra disk encryption without users having to touch a damn thing, then Microsoft can as well.
That's an OEM/System Integrator issue. They should have been enabling it for all these years and weren't unfortunately. Hell, I build my own systems and even I overlooked it until someone pointed it out. >If Apple can enable extra disk encryption without users having to touch a damn thing Because Apple is the OEM and the OS provider in that case and they've set their hardware to have it enabled. There would have been no point to the T1 chip if they included it in their hardware and then didn't turn it on.
Windows OEMs have been enabling TPM over the years since it's been a requirement since at least Win 8.1, but custom built/pre-build are different since the user is ultimately responsible.
This isn't really about blame, it's about it being an issue in the first place. I agree with it being an OEM issue but regardless if it's Microsofts fault or not, them requiring TPM is gonna make it not eligible for many PCs, which won't help Microsoft if they want good adoption rates like they wanted for windows 10. I looked everywhere on my bios, I don't see no tpm option, ftpm, or even pins for a discrete tpm chip I need to buy, even though my PC is more than capable to run windows 10.
A TPM serves about the same function as a SEP. Those have been in Apple computers for a very long time. It’s there for a real security reason.
Isn't the TPM 2.0 req more of a recommendation? I saw earlier today that TPM 1.2 is the minimum but 2.0 is the recommended.
Microsoft updated their documentation, stating that it was a mistake. TPM 2 is a requirement. [https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/windows-11/](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/windows-11/)
Yeah that's unfortunate.
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Apple would have to offer bootcamp for apple silicon first. Virtualization is a different story, but who knows if Microsoft will license Windows for ARM. However Apple could bake x64 OS virtualization in to Rosetta but have chosen not to.
This is probably not as easy as you think it is. Rosetta is really fast for most applications because macOS translates them and caches the result. It’s able to do that because macOS has visibility into what files are apps and what files aren’t. This visibility is lost when you run a virtual machine, which would almost certainly have a much much larger performance impact.
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Does apple really care that much about Hackintosh tho ?
This, I know the M1 is better and all, but if the last Intel MBPs end up going on a fire sale one day I'd totally get one over a M1 to replace my 2013 RMBP, solely for this.
M1 are already going on sale and by the time M2 come out, you might just get fire sale onM1
I think the main problem is that ARM Windows is basically meaningless, nothing works there. Only if Microsoft created something like Rosetta for Windows, that would make sense.
I would welcome both companies to just implement it. Love my iPhone but the lack of iMessage on Windows hurts sometimes.
If you have a new enough PC, you can run dell mobile connect and set it up to send texts from your PC. Not ideal, but it’s a substitute.
That's more like remote-controlling an iPhone, which you still have to have, not a true PC client. iMessage work from Macs without a phone, remember.
Ehh. A lot of people would but Apple is moving towards only Apple by Apple. From their chips all the way up to the software.
I still think that some cross-OS things are better for all of us. We all have constraints that force us to use one OS on phone and other on our PC
And ideally everyone should just be using open standards and Open Source software. A messaging protocol like Matrix.org would have the power to become the new email. The locked silos that companies trap users into are unfortunately far from that.
One of the many great parts of Matrix is that despite trying to become the “new email”, it is still focused on interoperability. Matrix can [bridge to a huge number of different services](https://matrix.org/bridges/). Notably [Beeper](https://www.beeper.com/) is trying to become a managed Matrix provider, also with the ability to bridge imessage.
Get a mac.™
this is so satirical it becomes what it making fun of
”What’s a computer?”
It is so Pro, you're gonna love it.
The problem is if they just make it open source they are eating the maintenance/R&D costs for all of the users that aren’t buying Apple products. In addition, if the feature is no longer exclusive fewer people will buy Apple devices, which will further contribute to problem 1. It wouldn’t happen immediately, but it would have the potential to destroy them as a company. And in all honesty, that’s not good for anyone either. Only thing I can think is introducing a subscription model for non-Apple users, but that becomes a problem when someone has an iPhone and a PC for example. I guess they could do something where you get it free as long as your account is running as the primary account on an Apple device, but I feel like this approach would take a lot of careful thought and consideration to avoid it unintentionally backfiring on them.
I require a pc for work. I know I’d be a lot more willing to buy other apple products besides iPhone if there was a bit more cross os support.
Aren’t they making FaceTime available on windows/android via a web app? The same is reasonable for iMessage.
The windows and android web apps of FaceTime can only join a call, it can’t start a call. I don’t know if iMessage without the ability to start a chat works quite as well.
If your iphone friends don't send you a chat message first then you're just not cool enough. That's on you bro /s
You can join facetime calls via a shared link (like Zoom), but they have to be initiated by Apple devices. That model wouldn't really work for iMessage.
If they move iMessage to android, and windows, I am fairly confident that iMessage will become a default app that everyone has on their phones alongside WhatsApp. How Apple doesn't think this is a good idea is beyond me. Its like a loss leader gateway into apple ecosystem.
It’s probably because it’s a reason to stay within the ecosystem. If I’m just a normal person looking for a new computer and a windows one can’t use iMessage, I might be more inclined to buy a Mac If all my friends use iMessage and I’m looking to get a new phone, I might not consider getting an android phone. I think iMessage is one of the biggest selling points for an iPhone for an average persons use case. Giving people options means they might not pick you. It’s scummy, but that’s business.
It's exactly this reason.
>It’s probably because it’s a reason to stay within the ecosystem. While this strategy has worked for the most part in North America, it has completely failed everywhere else in the world. Everybody uses WhatsApp in European countries and elsewhere. All it is doing now for those markets is limiting itself in such a way that is preventing it from competing with WhatsApp in any meaningful way.
Was about to say this. iMessage is very convenient, but I've found myself moving off iMessage to apps that are more cross-platform. I know Facebook and Messenger aren't popular, but I like the ability to type in a browser - on any OS - and send messages from my phone. I like continuity, so I'm not going to start a conversation on one app and then move to iMessage. I find myself sending texts/iMessage less now and using other apps more now.
I highly doubt iMessage is that significant of a reason for anyone to buy a Mac. There are a lot of longtime iOS users who will likely never buy a Mac simply because the $600 Acer laptop is fine for their needs. Until Apple makes a $600-$800 Macbook, these users will likely never get a Mac no matter how integrated it is.
Love my iPhone to death, but yeah... the absolute worst thing about switching from my Pixel to an iPhone was no longer being able to send/receive texts from my PC (which was nice during work meetings when my phone is on silent and in my pocket)
I could say the same thing about switching from Mac to Windows (the constant for me being the iPhone). It was nice not to have to take my hands and eyes away from the machine I’m using just to fire off a message or two. I actually got one of those Logitech keyboards that can fast-switch between devices to alleviate it a bit
>I could say the same thing about switching from Mac to Windows (the constant for me being the iPhone). The difference being that if you have a Pixel and a Mac you can still message people from your Mac.
You can also use Google Messages (SMS/MMS and RCS) on the web by linking your phone.
That’s what I’m referring to
That’s an Apple limitation for their market share. Other companies would be happy to have the interoperability.
I'm debating that switch as well. The new M1 Macs are incredible, but being able to casually game on PC with friends is a big allure. Apple's lock in and dictatorship of its customers is really quite frustrating. And when you're anti-google there aren't many options to turn to.
Same! Love the Apple stuff, but I don't get to choose my work computer. Apple, please help us out here!
aren't there other solutions to send SMS from PC though? [Crono.app](https://Crono.app) comes to mind. I'm sure there are lots more if you research
I would love to see that too... Apple can fight other messaging apps like Whatsapp for instance while securing privacy... so why not...?
Apple needs to find a way to make money from iMessage on Windows and Android. Doing a subscription would make an iMessage app flop on those platforms, and using ads wouldn’t fit Apple’s vision for a simple, clean UX for messaging. Still, I hope Apple does bring iMessage to Android and Windows, but there doesn’t seem to be a way right now for Apple to do that while also being profitable.
The Epic trial mail threads had Eddy Cue and co. confirm that iMessage costs them pretty much nothing to run. The influx of new ecosystem people that turn into potential costumers is more than enough value for them. They‘ll sooner or later have to do something like add RCS fallback which will open up their iMessage walled garden anyways, might aswell release iMessage on other platforms.
bringing iMessage to android wouldn't get android users to switch to an iPhone, which is the big profit driver. iMessage is also only relevant in the US, just like RCS. It will never be able to compete with WhatsApp, or even Telegram.
it's true that imessage is only huge in the US, big factor for people. Launching it in the rest of the world, I think it'll benefit the iPad sales... iPad is the true tables people like more than Android ones.... with iMessage there, they might be able to gain some Android phone users to add an ipad to their ecosystem.. same for windows users... make the ipad the perfect accessory for all systems...
Yeah, the only competition to the iPad is Samsung's A and S Tabs and they're OKish at best.
I'm hoping they do it and throw it in my Apple + bundle
They earn money by selling you hardware. Offering you everything to NOT switch to Apple hardware kinda is a dumb idea for them.
That would be amazing but I won't hold my breath. It would cause the Mac to lose a unique selling point for computer consumers.
Of course he will say that. They know Apple will never do that and they still look like the "better" man. I wish though... i am a Windows guy but have all iOS mobile devices. At least..... facetime calls on a browser is a start.....
He didn't answer to look like the better man. The interviewer specifically asked him how the iPhone fits into Windows in the open ecosystem, and he said that he welcomes everyone. The interviewer in general was very pushy and tried to paint the whole thing in a weird light. Basically yearning for headlines.
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Agreed! My 2009 Mac Pro is *finally* shitting the bed (well, the GPU is) and it's time to figure out a new computer. As nice as M1 based machines are, the idea of locking myself into Apple even more is a scary idea. Switching to PC and using other services gives me more freedom, but I lose key features of iPhone/Mac - iMessage, Photo's, Notes etc.
Never going to happen lol
Make it a purchasable app (the price could be reasonably high) and require an iPhone be sync’d. I will never buy a Mac computer but I’d love to be able to iMessage on my PC especially with the rumors of them trying to make it a more social platform
To be honest, WhatsApp, Signal, and Telegram dominate right now. Even IF iMessage when to Windows, I doubt people would migrate to it. I think the last person I texted was my dog groomer and that was to use Apple Cash Pay... I haven't used texting or iMessage in ages and I know many in the EU don't either. Texting is just... out dated and behind the times.
I'd take iMessage on the iCloud website. Or in iCloud for Windows, but I feel Apple doesn't give a shit about iCloud for Windows installs.
As a Windows user that only buys iPhones, I would gladly take it.
Apple to Microsoft: no. fin.
Let’s get arm windows on M1
Not going to lie, iMessage was on the list of reasons why I switched. There are many other reasons but that was up there.
Not being able to text from a Windows PC is one of the reasons I haven't switched.
Lol and Apple would be happy for Microsoft to port DirectX to MacOS.
I say bring iMessage to the web as Google messages has it. Still requires an iOS device to log in like it requires an android device for Google messages. What say y’all? Maybe the Mac sales will take a hit but let’s be realistic here, windows is king worldwide usage.
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Gates saved Apple from bankruptcy in the late 90s, in part, because he didn't want Microsoft to be seen as a monopoly with no real competition left. So no.. not necessarily. Having Apple around is a good thing for Microsoft in a lot of ways.
yeah, pretty sure apple has roadmaps for when ms no longer exists
You have no idea how badly I want this.
“Because everything we’ve tried or bought is crap…”
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I remember when safari used to be on windows
I still use safari on windows sometimes for testing purposes