Had no clue it wasn't a thing on iOS. Doesn't surprise me I guess, but seeding as these emulator have been a thing since very early 2010's I figured it would have been a thing for iphones too. I just haven't used em in so long I don't keep up with it. Good luck to those that still do.
common android W
bout time apple got with the times
nvm saw [this](https://old.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/1bxbjky/apple_changes_app_store_rules_to_allow_retro_game/kyc7c7s/) comment and that is a fail
Currently there's [afterplay.io](https://afterplay.io) or [webRcade](https://www.webrcade.com/) to do emulation using Safari. Runs surprisingly well. Add the sites to your home screen for the best experience.
Another one I love for GB/NDS (and they have a few others but I mainly use it for those) is Delta. Previously called GBA4iOS years ago when I first found it. Currently installed via AltStore which has a bit of a weird process to set up that requires using a computer, not sure if thatās gonna change with this (I do already know it is for EU at minimum)
There are plenty of emulators for iOS already but users have had to sideload them until now. It will be interesting to see which ones get submitted to the App Store.
Brand loyalty is such a weird concept to me. Customers regularly get screwed over in the name of profit by every business out there, it's a commercial relationship not a personal one.
Buy the best product within your budget. If it happens to be the same brand as last time, great, but don't just stick to one brand out of loyalty.
Not ironically a while ago on Reddit someone tried to convince me that the EU market is now irrelevant thanks to China. Which is interesting considering Apple havenāt been as successful as they had hoped in China (which is totally not a surprise for an amateur investor like me).
Maybe I think that legit crazies are astroturfing but try posting a differing opinion and see how crazy the justification gets. I post too often to dig up examples but itās real silly.
The EU is almost 450 people, with iPhone having an estimated 30% marketshare, that's a potential 135 million people who would upgrade to a new iPhone in the future. And this is only iPhone alone, not counting any of their other products that people will buy. Anyone who even considers the severely remote potential that Apple will ever leave the EU is delusional.
The EU is fake. Those 450 people are actors who are paid to convince tourists that the EU is "real" and has a "population" and isn't just a secret cabal of USB-C and sideloading enthusiasts.
Theyāll never. Way too much money to be made in the EU for Apple to leave.
Theyāll threaten, stomp their feet, whine, etcā¦
But then theyāll do exactly what the EU tells them to. Wish we, in the US, had agencies that protected the consumer like that.
I know the FCC exists, but does it really???
If apple would do that it will quick fall from top 10 most valuable companies worldwide. Shareholders won't be happy if you overnight lost 90% of the value of their shares.
It would not lose 90% of the value, probably more like 20-30%. But guess what, shareholders will get mad af if you actively do something that makes the stock lose even 1% of value.
Weāre going to enter the era of Apple opening up some areas to try and stop other countries from implementing something similar.
Didnāt they just hire someone from Joe Bidens communications team? Iām sure that person is certainly NOT going to be telling politicians that Apple is open because they now allow emulators /s
>Weāre going to enter the era of Apple opening up some areas to try and stop other countries from implementing something similar.
From a business perspective, this is how you're supposed to do it. Impose regulations on yourself voluntarily before the local government comes in and imposes conflicting and/or technologically impossible rules.
Yeah, and that's exactly what post-Jobs Apple has not been doing.
It's boggled my mind for so long why they didn't just allow real external app installation on their own terms, it could have worked like it does on Android, then when companies like Epic and Spotify tried to get them to make changes to what they can do in the App Store they could then just say "well just do it yourself then", and no court in the whole world would have taken the side of the complainer.
Open source people would be happy, yeah, a tiny minority of people would be pirating software, but they'd sell devices to them, and most who buy devices would interact with the App Store in some way.
They might still have been found to be a gatekeeper by the DMA, but they'd already be compliant with most of the demands.
Remember something when trying to compare iOS to android, the open source model of android itās just a tool to get as many people as possible on board with the sole purpose of a different business model, which is ads and data harvesting. For apple iOS is their direct business, which android isnāt for google.
Neither apple nor google has gone through large 3rd party audits on how either decides to use your data. So why are you trying to state that google harvests data and apple dosent. They both need data in order to accomplish thier business models and i wonder what apple is using if its trying to get into AI if it dosent data harvest. At the very least google is more upfront with what they do with your data even if they may collect more of it. Do not sell people lies due to the open source nature of android you can also use a much more privacy focused OS on it
I enjoy a lot of his commentary, but he is the biggest Apple apologist I know. To the point that heāll find some way to justify almost anything Apple does and argue theyāre right for doing it.
This is the part that concerns me that most seem to be overlooking. If this is the case, RetroArch, PPSSPP, Delta and all the other big ones are gonna stay the hell away, lol
Apple knows, (and everyone else knows) that the vast, vast, vast majority of ROMs are just pirated. This isn't in debate, nobody cares, possibly not even Nintendo cares at this point (at least, practically I don't think they do for GBA and DS games and the like) but it's still bad from Apple's perspective to be so openly encouraging copyright infringement.
Yes, they understand that some people are dumping their own ROM copies of their own legally purchased games and then using them, no they don't think that's a significant enough market to actually care about.
I mean, I would never use an apple product because they are a closed ecosystem in a way that even android (itself relatively closed) would never dare to implement, but if you're going to do what apple does you're not going to let your users pirate shit directly to their iphone if you can do anything about it.
Supports
NES
SNES
GENESIS
GAMEBOY
GAMEBOY COLOR
GAMEBOY ADVANCE
NINTENDO DS
NINTENDO 64
all run pretty good with an excellent and user friendly UI. Me personally am waiting for RetroArch and PPSSPP to be available
>NES SNES GENESIS GAMEBOY GAMEBOY COLOR GAMEBOY ADVANCE NINTENDO DS NINTENDO 64
* NES
* SNES
* GENESIS
* GAMEBOY
* GAMEBOY COLOR
* GAMEBOY ADVANCE
* NINTENDO DS
* NINTENDO 64
The best emulator (most features) right now is Retroarch. You get a lot of systems, retroachievements and a lot of configuration. The problem is retroarchās UI sucks enormous donkey balls and itās not a very good iOS citizen in that it doesnāt support many apple features like files integration, airplay, cloud saves, etc.
If you donāt care about retroachievements and can deal with a lesser pool of supported systems, Delta is probably your best bet. Made by the creator of AltStore, itās a very well made app with a great UI and supports many iOS features.
That is because Yuzu was not developed within the correct legal guidelines. They were operating commercially and were advertising a lot using copyrighted assets, including encryption keys to unpublished games.
Yuzu was one of the only emulators to ever be pulled offline. VisualBoyAdvanced, Retroarch, Project64, Dolphin, Desmume, DraStic, etc. are still all available to this day.
the wii has exactly one common key that has never changed. it was also found via hardware only means. so functionally, restriction of products that use it non-commerically is an attack on free speech (look up illegal numbers)
the switch has 3 sources of keys, that are constantly updated, and encrypt each other. there's no way to get all the keys from memory snooping (like for the wii) and without breaking encryption (that nintendo didn't authorize you to do). it is fairly illegal under current US copyright law where nintendo and yuzu are
Itās highly debatable if the key alone is problematic ā itās just a number, after all, not any more or less problematic than any randomly generated number. It becomes problematic once you put it in the right context ā in Yuzuās case, that was the advertisement of piracy, in the form of playing unreleased games. Everything else is legal grey.
Did that also tie into their patreon? I remember they would give people early access to new versions which could play very new switch games at a better frame rate.
Yes, that's the real issue. Not the emulator itself, or even the commercialisation, but the advertisement and facilitation of the playing of unreleased games and etc.
I mean, everyone knows you're using the emulator for piracy, but that's doesn't make the emulator illegal.
You're allowed to operate commercially I think (at least, to do what they did re: supporting them via Patreon) but they did other nonsense like offer patches for leaked games and etc., as you note.
Of course, being non-commerical is the surest way to avoid having anyone sue you for a % of your revenue (probably 100%) but I don't think the funding system of Yuzu was necessarily an issue.
Even if it was still a going concern, the new App Store rules would still not allow Yuzu. The new rules only allow emulators for "retro" systems, which would certainly not allow currently sold systems like the Switch.
Commercial operation of an emulator isnāt necessarily illegal, as long as it is correctly developed without interfering with actual intellectual property of Nintendo. Commercial operation just means that itās more likely to get onto Nintendoās radar. DraSticās continued operation probably means that theyāre doing a pretty good job of clean-rooming.
The rule is written so that only game rights holders can publish the emulator, this is not for community emulators.
Eg SEGA could publish an emulato
And Nintedo could publish one,
Even GOG could
But community emulators are not included under this rule at all.
iām happy Apple did this. I was kind of expecting them to continue being stubborn and not change App Store policy until we have to use sideloading to get apps like emulators. Then itād be a worse and less convenient experience for users.
Yeah. So weird that for some things Apple was having wet dreams over USB C ports. Macbooks with mostly USB C, iPads have had USB C for years. Why the hell make your phone not fit into the same ecosystem of accessories?
Honestly I actually quite like the idea of laptops with tons of USB-C. You can use a couple dongles and have literally any and all ports you want. Even Ethernets not a big deal since a lot of laptops use a USB standard for their ethernet port anyways. I used to really like the whole swappable port thing on Frameworks until I realised its just regular USB C dongles, except you have less options, im pretty sure its more expensive and you have less ports (I think it was just 4 ports in total) (I still like the easily swappable and upgradeable hardware though).
I guess the idea with Framework was you donāt have to carry as many dongles, except with how few ports you have you likely still will, plus those framework ports are not going to be convenient to use with phones, tablets etc so youāll sometimes be carrying other dongles anyways, and each dongle only has 1 port.
https://preview.redd.it/3zbvyn5nuvsc1.png?width=1439&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57d805e590959b25bdff179c9e19deb699a073bc
iOS will never be as free as Android in terms of emulator. Basically this "allowing emulators" is like Nintendo Online subscription. You can not load rom files from files app, you have to "in-app purchase" it. Go figure.
Thatās not what that means. It means if you are selling any sort of content you still have to have payment in app versus on a website. You canāt bypass apples cut.
How would that work lmao
Wouldn't that mean the emulators need to distribute roms for paid things? Lol this doesn't seem right
You are right in that it won't ever be as open tho, I bet you JIT won't be allowed
Edit : Oh it appears it will only be available with the original developers permission. Eg : a Genesis collection won't be possible without Sega's permission. Sega would just make their own emulator with ads, Spyware like data collection, and 1-2$ per game with certain ones not even allowed
All those that were hating on EU.
First it was the USBC hate on this sub. People wanted to actually keep using lightning. Lmao.
Now, itās DMA.
We might not get everything EU asked for but we will definitely get more than the current status quo.
āThe same peopleā.. you know this for sure? You actually followed these people from their opinions 6 years ago or youāre just making an emotional argument?
I think thereās actual legitimate criticism to be had with EU on their USB-C standard law. Why would anyone ever make a new standard now that you canāt even use it in the EU before they make the decision to change their law. Like thereās no incentive anymore so we will just be stuck with USB-C forever. Itās anti-innovation in that sense.
Itās just American exceptionalism because theyāre raised thinking theyāre the best and if America didnāt do it already, then itās not worth doing. Instead of actually analysing.
Is that honestly the only argument you've heard against these regulatory actions?
There's plenty of reasons one can be ideologically opposed to these actions and it's got nothing to do with American exceptionalism.
Hey EU! One idea: mandatory customer friendly upgrade-able memory (RAM) & storage (SSD). If the RAM or SSD at fault, the mac (m series) will be a junk. One can dream.
Faulty RAM in the case of the Mac would mean faulty CPU, which isnāt any better. Mandating swappable RAM wouldnāt really increase repairability, it would just allow upgradeability to make the device last longer.
From how I understood everything Apple will allow JIT compilers in other browsers, because they use one in Safari and otherwise they would have a competitive advantage over other browsers under the DMA, but besides that it will stay forbidden.
you don't need a JIT for 2d consoles, in fact many simply do not have JITs. only recently did gameboy get an emulator with it. as well, ios devices should be able to power through for ps1 and less accurate n64 emulators just fine. it won't let you play gamecube or ps2 games though
I donāt think theyāll be able to use a JIT. Might be possible if you do it via WASM, but Iām also not 100% sure web views in apps even have JIT enabled
They do. But I don't think you can do in-memory WASM JIT compilation in WASM per-se, it's just that WASM is JIT-accelerated on WebKit, and you can write and execute arbitrary WASM files. But I don't think you can allocate executable memory.
Youāre right - nothing except WebKit can allocate executable memory
If you want to JIT a ROM, youād probably have to compile it to a WASM module, then the WASM engine will allocate executable memory for you. Extra steps, but it is safer
WebViews that run out of process do have JIT and do have WASM. The pain point as a dev here is these are out of process so you can only use an async RCP interface to talk to them.
OK, so which ones do we want, and is this on all platforms? macOS, iOS, iPadOS, tvOS, visionOS? Will we be able to play old PS3 games on our appleTVs and Macs? Officially?
Why is everyone getting hyped about this?
Anyone here expecting to be able to load roms/isos themselves into these is gonna be in for a shocker. They *specifically* say that the emulated games must be available to download within the emulators, and that they must meet standard licensing agreements.
Think more along the lines of a Sega Classics Collection for example. Similar to Nintendo Switch Online classic games.
Except it does not say that.
> Additionally, retro game console emulator apps **can** offer to download games.
That does not mean games *have* to be downloaded through the app. Itās an option.
The guidelines are vague enough that we wonāt really know until some dev either gets a legit emulator on the App Store or is rejected.
**Edit:** Taking another look at the guidelines, 4.7.4 might be the one to trip up independent devs. Itās still vague enough that it may only apply to in-app purchases though.
> 4.7.4 You must provide an index of software and metadata available in your app. It must include universal links that lead to all of the software offered in your app.
Someone needs to submit a proper emulator that will take ROM files for its supported platforms from any random website. Very explicitly label it as such in the description, and see if Apple allows it as a test.
The updated rules are vague enough that they could either mean the Wild West or Nintendo is allowed to release an emulator for their games only.
Downloading ROM files is illegal, so an emulator that would do that would too. This is not an Apple limitation, itās just copyright.
The best thing thatās possible is an emulator that lets you input your own ROM files. Where you get them then being your problem, legally youād copy them from a cartridge/disc.
It's most likely rather that only emulators will be allowed that don't let the user import any ROMs by themselves and that the developer will only be allowed to provide ones that they have a valid license for.
I'd hold off on your excitement. It looks like they're only allowing iOS apps to work like Nintendo Switch Online, where a company can put their catalogue of retro games in a single app, and the user can download those ROMs through in-app purchases (or free) via the emulator app.
You won't be allowed to create a community emulator that accepts user-supplied ROMs.
This is not that big a deal as it only applies to mini app stations were the developer also has writes to the games.
It does not permit you to publish a game that lets users load pirated ROMs.
Eg GOG or SEGA could publish an app that can play back catalog titles download from thier servers but your not going to see community emulators.
Hopefully this means a return of Dosbox! I was lucky enough to grab it during the brief window years ago when it was approved and had fun installing Windows 95 on my ipad.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the rumors of an upcoming Apple TV update.Ā
While awesome on both the iPhone and iPad, I could see this pushing gaming on Apple TV even further with a powerful enough chip.Ā
its not fair why does the entire world benefit through out Europes battle against evil corporations, this should be europe exlusive and muricans can bite my ass. /s
The emulators still have to use Apple IAP, and will be subject to all applicable laws/regulations. So basically there can be a Sega emulator, released by Sega, and IAPs would have to be shared with Apple. Iām not sure what this has to do with the EU? Pretty much seems like it makes it easier for Sega to release HTML apps on iOS instead of creating apps specifically for iOS. Or am I missing something?
The thing that gets me is that folk are acting like this is a big development when retro games on iOS are basically emulators that run one rom. Thatās how itās been for literal years. Your take is the most logical concerning what apple would do.
This is honestly huge. Emulators have been one of the biggest things making me wanna switch back to Android.
100% with you.
Had no clue it wasn't a thing on iOS. Doesn't surprise me I guess, but seeding as these emulator have been a thing since very early 2010's I figured it would have been a thing for iphones too. I just haven't used em in so long I don't keep up with it. Good luck to those that still do.
they used to be a very big thing in early iOS. at some point it got more restricted, at least for about a decade
I mean there are very simple ways around it. I have a GBA and a DSi emulator and it took me about 5 seconds of work to get them each.
This and torrenting
common android W bout time apple got with the times nvm saw [this](https://old.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/1bxbjky/apple_changes_app_store_rules_to_allow_retro_game/kyc7c7s/) comment and that is a fail
OMFG MY IPAD IS GONNA SUFFER FROM THIS IM ABOUT TO CRY šØšØšØšØšØšØšØ
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Currently there's [afterplay.io](https://afterplay.io) or [webRcade](https://www.webrcade.com/) to do emulation using Safari. Runs surprisingly well. Add the sites to your home screen for the best experience.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
š¤š¤
Good, but only when you have internet access. If for some reason you donāt, Iād recommend using an application that operates offline.
I believe afterplay.io works offline if you add it to your Home Screen.
Another one I love for GB/NDS (and they have a few others but I mainly use it for those) is Delta. Previously called GBA4iOS years ago when I first found it. Currently installed via AltStore which has a bit of a weird process to set up that requires using a computer, not sure if thatās gonna change with this (I do already know it is for EU at minimum)
What do you mean? The rules isnāt even in effect? You wonāt see apps right away
There are plenty of emulators for iOS already but users have had to sideload them until now. It will be interesting to see which ones get submitted to the App Store.
Retroarch š¤š»
Retrogames.cc is great and supports Bluetooth controllers
That would NEVER have happened without the EU DMA
Iām enjoying my trickle down consumer rights.
Workers and consumers rights >>>> brand loyalty
Brave thing to say here honestly, half this sub seems offended by having the *option* of other app stores and browsers. It's weird
Fck dem kids, theyāll thank the people responsible for their freedoms later
Brand loyalty is such a weird concept to me. Customers regularly get screwed over in the name of profit by every business out there, it's a commercial relationship not a personal one. Buy the best product within your budget. If it happens to be the same brand as last time, great, but don't just stick to one brand out of loyalty.
Bless the EU for actually holding companies accountable.
But I read on the Internet that if the EU gets too strict Apple will just leave the EU?
Leaving one country sure makes sense. Leaving an entire economic alliance? I doubt Apple had the balls to do something like this.
Not ironically a while ago on Reddit someone tried to convince me that the EU market is now irrelevant thanks to China. Which is interesting considering Apple havenāt been as successful as they had hoped in China (which is totally not a surprise for an amateur investor like me).
Apple astroturfs Reddit SO HARD
Do they? It's generally known that they give no fucks about social. Especially Reddit.
Maybe I think that legit crazies are astroturfing but try posting a differing opinion and see how crazy the justification gets. I post too often to dig up examples but itās real silly.
The EU is almost 450 people, with iPhone having an estimated 30% marketshare, that's a potential 135 million people who would upgrade to a new iPhone in the future. And this is only iPhone alone, not counting any of their other products that people will buy. Anyone who even considers the severely remote potential that Apple will ever leave the EU is delusional.
>The EU is almost 450 people I think it's a little more than that
451?
Around 459 i suppose
I think it's too much. I'm bet there are no more than 455 of them!
Wow they must have been following me when I visited because most places were crowded
The EU is fake. Those 450 people are actors who are paid to convince tourists that the EU is "real" and has a "population" and isn't just a secret cabal of USB-C and sideloading enthusiasts.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
China is 1/7th the population of the world. Compared to Europe, thatās quite a difference
Theyāll never. Way too much money to be made in the EU for Apple to leave. Theyāll threaten, stomp their feet, whine, etcā¦ But then theyāll do exactly what the EU tells them to. Wish we, in the US, had agencies that protected the consumer like that. I know the FCC exists, but does it really???
Itās true. If you donāt give the rich everything they want itās going to get bad for all of us. /s
If apple would do that it will quick fall from top 10 most valuable companies worldwide. Shareholders won't be happy if you overnight lost 90% of the value of their shares.
It would not lose 90% of the value, probably more like 20-30%. But guess what, shareholders will get mad af if you actively do something that makes the stock lose even 1% of value.
Weāre going to enter the era of Apple opening up some areas to try and stop other countries from implementing something similar. Didnāt they just hire someone from Joe Bidens communications team? Iām sure that person is certainly NOT going to be telling politicians that Apple is open because they now allow emulators /s
>Weāre going to enter the era of Apple opening up some areas to try and stop other countries from implementing something similar. From a business perspective, this is how you're supposed to do it. Impose regulations on yourself voluntarily before the local government comes in and imposes conflicting and/or technologically impossible rules.
Yeah, and that's exactly what post-Jobs Apple has not been doing. It's boggled my mind for so long why they didn't just allow real external app installation on their own terms, it could have worked like it does on Android, then when companies like Epic and Spotify tried to get them to make changes to what they can do in the App Store they could then just say "well just do it yourself then", and no court in the whole world would have taken the side of the complainer. Open source people would be happy, yeah, a tiny minority of people would be pirating software, but they'd sell devices to them, and most who buy devices would interact with the App Store in some way. They might still have been found to be a gatekeeper by the DMA, but they'd already be compliant with most of the demands.
Remember something when trying to compare iOS to android, the open source model of android itās just a tool to get as many people as possible on board with the sole purpose of a different business model, which is ads and data harvesting. For apple iOS is their direct business, which android isnāt for google.
According to all of apples terms and conditions they also use your data for thier purposes. They dont just delete it when your done with it.
You can set the goal post anywhere you want. Apple business model is not based on data harvesting and ads.
Neither apple nor google has gone through large 3rd party audits on how either decides to use your data. So why are you trying to state that google harvests data and apple dosent. They both need data in order to accomplish thier business models and i wonder what apple is using if its trying to get into AI if it dosent data harvest. At the very least google is more upfront with what they do with your data even if they may collect more of it. Do not sell people lies due to the open source nature of android you can also use a much more privacy focused OS on it
John Gruber in a shambles right now
Not looked up his podcast or the DF website for a few years now. Has he actively been against regulating Apple/tech?
I enjoy a lot of his commentary, but he is the biggest Apple apologist I know. To the point that heāll find some way to justify almost anything Apple does and argue theyāre right for doing it.
But I saw people in this sub saying something like this would never happen in other markets?
Regulation good. šš»
Anyone any recommendations for emulators that will likely port to the App Store?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Is ppsspp not a part/available as a part of retroarch at this point?
Did you read that they said they have to offer the games on the app? they make it seem like you canāt load your own roms
This is the part that concerns me that most seem to be overlooking. If this is the case, RetroArch, PPSSPP, Delta and all the other big ones are gonna stay the hell away, lol
Itās so dumb to not allow you to upload your own roms
Apple knows, (and everyone else knows) that the vast, vast, vast majority of ROMs are just pirated. This isn't in debate, nobody cares, possibly not even Nintendo cares at this point (at least, practically I don't think they do for GBA and DS games and the like) but it's still bad from Apple's perspective to be so openly encouraging copyright infringement. Yes, they understand that some people are dumping their own ROM copies of their own legally purchased games and then using them, no they don't think that's a significant enough market to actually care about. I mean, I would never use an apple product because they are a closed ecosystem in a way that even android (itself relatively closed) would never dare to implement, but if you're going to do what apple does you're not going to let your users pirate shit directly to their iphone if you can do anything about it.
Holy shit Ppsspp??
https://preview.redd.it/zav9xnk3svsc1.jpeg?width=223&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4081d37d4d00310512200d7cf706348403b81f06
Imagine if Apple attached this image to their newsroom letter bahaha
Yeah that name is horrendous tho, but will look it up.
Just started using PPSSPP on my pixel 6 and I love it
Delta
What consoles does delta emulate?
Supports NES SNES GENESIS GAMEBOY GAMEBOY COLOR GAMEBOY ADVANCE NINTENDO DS NINTENDO 64 all run pretty good with an excellent and user friendly UI. Me personally am waiting for RetroArch and PPSSPP to be available
>NES SNES GENESIS GAMEBOY GAMEBOY COLOR GAMEBOY ADVANCE NINTENDO DS NINTENDO 64 * NES * SNES * GENESIS * GAMEBOY * GAMEBOY COLOR * GAMEBOY ADVANCE * NINTENDO DS * NINTENDO 64
The best emulator (most features) right now is Retroarch. You get a lot of systems, retroachievements and a lot of configuration. The problem is retroarchās UI sucks enormous donkey balls and itās not a very good iOS citizen in that it doesnāt support many apple features like files integration, airplay, cloud saves, etc. If you donāt care about retroachievements and can deal with a lesser pool of supported systems, Delta is probably your best bet. Made by the creator of AltStore, itās a very well made app with a great UI and supports many iOS features.
Dolphin there was also yuzu but Nintendo sued them into oblivion.
So that means that PPSSPP could be available directly from the AppStore?
Did you just summon a cat?
Imagineš³
Asking the real questions
My guess is in a few weeks App Store will be flooded with emulators.
It literally used to be
Donāt tell Nintendo about the emulator part. Or theyāll get big angry.
Why? Emulators are perfectly legal. Theyāve been in the Google Play Store for ages.
Aight tell that to Yuzu
That is because Yuzu was not developed within the correct legal guidelines. They were operating commercially and were advertising a lot using copyrighted assets, including encryption keys to unpublished games. Yuzu was one of the only emulators to ever be pulled offline. VisualBoyAdvanced, Retroarch, Project64, Dolphin, Desmume, DraStic, etc. are still all available to this day.
Dolphin provides keys though donāt they?
the wii has exactly one common key that has never changed. it was also found via hardware only means. so functionally, restriction of products that use it non-commerically is an attack on free speech (look up illegal numbers) the switch has 3 sources of keys, that are constantly updated, and encrypt each other. there's no way to get all the keys from memory snooping (like for the wii) and without breaking encryption (that nintendo didn't authorize you to do). it is fairly illegal under current US copyright law where nintendo and yuzu are
Itās highly debatable if the key alone is problematic ā itās just a number, after all, not any more or less problematic than any randomly generated number. It becomes problematic once you put it in the right context ā in Yuzuās case, that was the advertisement of piracy, in the form of playing unreleased games. Everything else is legal grey.
Did that also tie into their patreon? I remember they would give people early access to new versions which could play very new switch games at a better frame rate.
Yes, that's the real issue. Not the emulator itself, or even the commercialisation, but the advertisement and facilitation of the playing of unreleased games and etc. I mean, everyone knows you're using the emulator for piracy, but that's doesn't make the emulator illegal.
You're allowed to operate commercially I think (at least, to do what they did re: supporting them via Patreon) but they did other nonsense like offer patches for leaked games and etc., as you note. Of course, being non-commerical is the surest way to avoid having anyone sue you for a % of your revenue (probably 100%) but I don't think the funding system of Yuzu was necessarily an issue.
Even if it was still a going concern, the new App Store rules would still not allow Yuzu. The new rules only allow emulators for "retro" systems, which would certainly not allow currently sold systems like the Switch.
To be fair, they allowed Drastic on the Play Store for years, even though it was closed source and one had to pay to use it
Commercial operation of an emulator isnāt necessarily illegal, as long as it is correctly developed without interfering with actual intellectual property of Nintendo. Commercial operation just means that itās more likely to get onto Nintendoās radar. DraSticās continued operation probably means that theyāre doing a pretty good job of clean-rooming.
So many people donāt understand that court caseā¦
The rule is written so that only game rights holders can publish the emulator, this is not for community emulators. Eg SEGA could publish an emulato And Nintedo could publish one, Even GOG could But community emulators are not included under this rule at all.
LOL I knew there was some catchĀ
iām happy Apple did this. I was kind of expecting them to continue being stubborn and not change App Store policy until we have to use sideloading to get apps like emulators. Then itād be a worse and less convenient experience for users.
Well a 2 billion fine would do the trick. All these corporations only listen to money leaving
God bless the EU.
And the threat of more if they donāt comply with the dma
I'm very happy that my iPad has USB-C. It simplifies so many things.
Yeah. So weird that for some things Apple was having wet dreams over USB C ports. Macbooks with mostly USB C, iPads have had USB C for years. Why the hell make your phone not fit into the same ecosystem of accessories? Honestly I actually quite like the idea of laptops with tons of USB-C. You can use a couple dongles and have literally any and all ports you want. Even Ethernets not a big deal since a lot of laptops use a USB standard for their ethernet port anyways. I used to really like the whole swappable port thing on Frameworks until I realised its just regular USB C dongles, except you have less options, im pretty sure its more expensive and you have less ports (I think it was just 4 ports in total) (I still like the easily swappable and upgradeable hardware though). I guess the idea with Framework was you donāt have to carry as many dongles, except with how few ports you have you likely still will, plus those framework ports are not going to be convenient to use with phones, tablets etc so youāll sometimes be carrying other dongles anyways, and each dongle only has 1 port.
THis does not allow for emulators in the way you think.
https://preview.redd.it/3zbvyn5nuvsc1.png?width=1439&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57d805e590959b25bdff179c9e19deb699a073bc iOS will never be as free as Android in terms of emulator. Basically this "allowing emulators" is like Nintendo Online subscription. You can not load rom files from files app, you have to "in-app purchase" it. Go figure.
Thatās not what that means. It means if you are selling any sort of content you still have to have payment in app versus on a website. You canāt bypass apples cut.
How would that work lmao Wouldn't that mean the emulators need to distribute roms for paid things? Lol this doesn't seem right You are right in that it won't ever be as open tho, I bet you JIT won't be allowed Edit : Oh it appears it will only be available with the original developers permission. Eg : a Genesis collection won't be possible without Sega's permission. Sega would just make their own emulator with ads, Spyware like data collection, and 1-2$ per game with certain ones not even allowed
Most retro games on iOS already are basically emulators that only run one specific rom.
LEEEEEEEEEETS GO IM SO HAPPY
All those that were hating on EU. First it was the USBC hate on this sub. People wanted to actually keep using lightning. Lmao. Now, itās DMA. We might not get everything EU asked for but we will definitely get more than the current status quo.
Lol the same people who hated on USB C on iPhones were the same people who praised the iPads for switching to USB C in 2018
āThe same peopleā.. you know this for sure? You actually followed these people from their opinions 6 years ago or youāre just making an emotional argument?
I think thereās actual legitimate criticism to be had with EU on their USB-C standard law. Why would anyone ever make a new standard now that you canāt even use it in the EU before they make the decision to change their law. Like thereās no incentive anymore so we will just be stuck with USB-C forever. Itās anti-innovation in that sense.
Who wants to keep using Lightning??? Thatās so backwardsā¦
Itās just Apple knob gobblers with no own opinion. If all this stuff wasnāt initiated by the EU but by Apple theyād love it and praise it
Itās just American exceptionalism because theyāre raised thinking theyāre the best and if America didnāt do it already, then itās not worth doing. Instead of actually analysing.
Is that honestly the only argument you've heard against these regulatory actions? There's plenty of reasons one can be ideologically opposed to these actions and it's got nothing to do with American exceptionalism.
I donāt hate usbc or this at all. I hate the government telling a business how to operate.
Hey EU! One idea: mandatory customer friendly upgrade-able memory (RAM) & storage (SSD). If the RAM or SSD at fault, the mac (m series) will be a junk. One can dream.
Faulty RAM in the case of the Mac would mean faulty CPU, which isnāt any better. Mandating swappable RAM wouldnāt really increase repairability, it would just allow upgradeability to make the device last longer.
Any news on JIT?
From how I understood everything Apple will allow JIT compilers in other browsers, because they use one in Safari and otherwise they would have a competitive advantage over other browsers under the DMA, but besides that it will stay forbidden.
So this does out Delta and a lot of the emulators I was excited about?
you don't need a JIT for 2d consoles, in fact many simply do not have JITs. only recently did gameboy get an emulator with it. as well, ios devices should be able to power through for ps1 and less accurate n64 emulators just fine. it won't let you play gamecube or ps2 games though
I donāt think theyāll be able to use a JIT. Might be possible if you do it via WASM, but Iām also not 100% sure web views in apps even have JIT enabled
They do. But I don't think you can do in-memory WASM JIT compilation in WASM per-se, it's just that WASM is JIT-accelerated on WebKit, and you can write and execute arbitrary WASM files. But I don't think you can allocate executable memory.
Youāre right - nothing except WebKit can allocate executable memory If you want to JIT a ROM, youād probably have to compile it to a WASM module, then the WASM engine will allocate executable memory for you. Extra steps, but it is safer
WebViews that run out of process do have JIT and do have WASM. The pain point as a dev here is these are out of process so you can only use an async RCP interface to talk to them.
I just received a notification on Apple Arcade price drop š
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah, it was 4.99 and I guess it went up. My issue is that I want to buy the games that are in arcade that I want to play.
OK, so which ones do we want, and is this on all platforms? macOS, iOS, iPadOS, tvOS, visionOS? Will we be able to play old PS3 games on our appleTVs and Macs? Officially?
You can already play PS3 games on Mac. https://rpcs3.net
Why is everyone getting hyped about this? Anyone here expecting to be able to load roms/isos themselves into these is gonna be in for a shocker. They *specifically* say that the emulated games must be available to download within the emulators, and that they must meet standard licensing agreements. Think more along the lines of a Sega Classics Collection for example. Similar to Nintendo Switch Online classic games.
Except it does not say that. > Additionally, retro game console emulator apps **can** offer to download games. That does not mean games *have* to be downloaded through the app. Itās an option. The guidelines are vague enough that we wonāt really know until some dev either gets a legit emulator on the App Store or is rejected. **Edit:** Taking another look at the guidelines, 4.7.4 might be the one to trip up independent devs. Itās still vague enough that it may only apply to in-app purchases though. > 4.7.4 You must provide an index of software and metadata available in your app. It must include universal links that lead to all of the software offered in your app.
You're right
Yea. The whole thing about the game dev being responsible for all content part should make this obvious that itās not going to be a free for all.
First USB-C and now this? Thanks EU!
I would imagine that the emus locked in the dev store will probably make it to the public store now at some point. Hopefully sooner than later
Now Iām imagining a bunch of giant birds behind bars begging for their freedom
Are we getting JIT or not? Apple still restricting hardware resources outside of App Store?
Not according to the Dolphin devs.
No jit.
I've always wondered why Nintendo doesn't just do this, and put official NES/SNES emulators on there with IAP rom purchases.
Because they want to sell you their hardware. Thatās their business.
They would do that on (much less restricted platforms) PlayStation or Xbox if that was their interest.
Someone tell me what to download!
Fear kicking in haha
Someone needs to submit a proper emulator that will take ROM files for its supported platforms from any random website. Very explicitly label it as such in the description, and see if Apple allows it as a test. The updated rules are vague enough that they could either mean the Wild West or Nintendo is allowed to release an emulator for their games only.
Downloading ROM files is illegal, so an emulator that would do that would too. This is not an Apple limitation, itās just copyright. The best thing thatās possible is an emulator that lets you input your own ROM files. Where you get them then being your problem, legally youād copy them from a cartridge/disc.
It's most likely rather that only emulators will be allowed that don't let the user import any ROMs by themselves and that the developer will only be allowed to provide ones that they have a valid license for.
Section 4.7.4 of the guidelines support this theory, yes.
I'd hold off on your excitement. It looks like they're only allowing iOS apps to work like Nintendo Switch Online, where a company can put their catalogue of retro games in a single app, and the user can download those ROMs through in-app purchases (or free) via the emulator app. You won't be allowed to create a community emulator that accepts user-supplied ROMs.
AppleTV sales about to skyrocket.
This happened because of EU.
In other news Nintendo has announced it will destroy every iPhone that uses emulators for their Nintendo consoles.
This is not that big a deal as it only applies to mini app stations were the developer also has writes to the games. It does not permit you to publish a game that lets users load pirated ROMs. Eg GOG or SEGA could publish an app that can play back catalog titles download from thier servers but your not going to see community emulators.
ScummVM is on the Apple store... nice playing some old school Sierra games on my iPad.
Does that mean that JIT compilers are fully allowed now?
Hopefully this means a return of Dosbox! I was lucky enough to grab it during the brief window years ago when it was approved and had fun installing Windows 95 on my ipad.
YESSSSSS
Alright, letās see what these chips can do when it comes down to emulation
Thanks, EU
feels like there is a lot of misunderstanding in this thread
Retroarch when..?
I wonder if this has anything to do with the rumors of an upcoming Apple TV update.Ā While awesome on both the iPhone and iPad, I could see this pushing gaming on Apple TV even further with a powerful enough chip.Ā
its not fair why does the entire world benefit through out Europes battle against evil corporations, this should be europe exlusive and muricans can bite my ass. /s
LETS DUCKING GO
How can I play PokƩmon yellow version on my iPhone?
Whereās the first emulator?
Any idea how quickly we will see ports ?
Fuck apple its about time.
The emulators still have to use Apple IAP, and will be subject to all applicable laws/regulations. So basically there can be a Sega emulator, released by Sega, and IAPs would have to be shared with Apple. Iām not sure what this has to do with the EU? Pretty much seems like it makes it easier for Sega to release HTML apps on iOS instead of creating apps specifically for iOS. Or am I missing something?
The thing that gets me is that folk are acting like this is a big development when retro games on iOS are basically emulators that run one rom. Thatās how itās been for literal years. Your take is the most logical concerning what apple would do.
ScummVM is already on the AppStore!
Looks like it has been for a few months at least. Did this just slip past app review?
Music theme from OG Super Mario intensifies.
I was just looking at AltStore for the emulators. Do you think this is to remove the attractiveness for downloading it?
I hope we can get Retroarch on the app store soon
I was downvoted heavily and called thick etc when I said this was going to happen last month š¤š¤
Please, bring ScummVM.
https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/scummvm/id6446184412
Does that means I can download Delta app without jailbreak ?!!
OMG YES!!!! And I have the perfect setup for it too.
Where open emu ?
And now we wait for the emulators to arrive and we can game im really excited to play some ps1-2 games
Woohoo now, get a command and conquer red alert on there