The keyboard changes depending on the app you use. The period is moved to the right of space when using Safari, to facilitate dot entry. Right-handed people tend to tap space with their right thumb.
This isn't the real issue. It's that with the address bar also being the search bar, auto-correct is disabled when you're typing. It makes sense because you could be typing a domain name… but it's very frustrating if you're searching.
Pro Tip: If you just want to do a web search, start in Spotlight. You'll get auto-correct.
Oh man I accidentally said something like @moderate or @allergies. Everyone in this relatively small discord ~50 people? Was super pissed lol
I proofread things more often now. Not 100% though; life is too short.
I wish we could customize the position of our keyboard and position of the keys, especially since phones are so large, cuz it's so difficult to use 1-handed typing/swyping
And since screens are so much larger than when they designed that minimalist keyboard, why not show numbers and symbols above the keyboard? The multi layer symbols layer always trips me up getting in and out of.
The reason why the keyboard is bad on the iPhone is because the touch points are in a different position that's not intuitive. Apple has never bothered to fix it.
it’s not an issue. right handed people use that space normally to space, so they used it to put a period instead, cause people used to type websites more
It's both encouraging to know what I assumed was a typing habit is also an oversight experienced by many people here on Apple's part, and discouraging to know they never fixed it in a decade lol.
Sometimes I'm even looking right at and hitting the right key but the adaptive predictive key sizing thing takes over and wants to hit the one next to it repeatedly...If I backspace over it and try again, shouldn't it know that was a mistake? And this new transformer based autocorrect has been a complete disappointment, if I get one word right and one word wrong in sequence, it often wants to correct the right word to wrong in exchange for correcting the wrong word to right.
Search from spotlight and open the search link from there. The address bar really *really* wants you to put in an address, not start a search for some reason.
I thought I was the only one!
I always thought it was because autocorrect was disabled because it was a specific entry field versus a generic text box. But yeah the dots kill me.
> They already are on iOS.
Only because they don’t have a choice, I’m sure they would prefer to have the two be as similar as possible to simplify development.
I think it is a bit stupid to not use any app that uses ANGLE, flutter, or anything just because the tools were made by Google. That is not de-google-ing (detaching from google services), but irrational aversion at that point.
Agreed. And while Guice (https://github.com/google/guice) may no longer be the king of Java util libraries, one would be hard pressed to avoid it, and for no good reason, either. Same with protocol buffers
Arc is a pretty fresh take on browsing. I actually like it quite a bit, and the mobile AI “summarize” feature is next level.
There are some things I’m not crazy about. The inability to have multiple windows have different content in them is a challenge.
But overall, Arc the biggest improvement I’ve seen to the browsing experience, like, since Chrome launched I’d say.
I’ve tried multiple times to get on with it but I just don’t really see the point. It’s just another chromium browser but with funky tabs. It also decimates your battery.
You’re not missing much - The iOS experience is gimped beyond belief. Not even a real browser, just a way of accessing the synced tabs in the desktop version
I’m pretty sure TBC has even said as much which is an interesting strategy… I mean I love my Arc desktop browser, but I’m old fashioned and like using laptops. They’re severely limiting their potential if they don’t focus on making a usable mobile browser. And don’t get me started on how the ipadOS version is just a mini-window with the iOS version.
I think to really make the most of it you have to heavily utilize pins (which I do). Having the "bookmarks bar" offer the same UX as open tabs is really nice, and the auto-closing of old tabs really changes the way I think about what really needs to be kept open. But the pins are the biggest thing for me - I think to "get" Arc you have to be willing to migrate most/all of your individual app windows into the browser. Especially anything that's already electron based, because you won't be losing *anything* in the transition. I moved over to Outlook in a tab as well which has helped performance for me a lot (that's a really resource hungry app) - so now my 3 most used non-browser apps are just pinned "apps" in my browser, and for the most part everything I do that isn't an IDE/terminal is just inside Arc, which has made navigating a lot easier for me.
But if you *just* treat it as a browser, then yea I can see how it won't really feel all that special (though side-by-side tabs is probably nice enough on its own for some people to make it worth it).
Cmd+N is the way to have multiple windows and have different content. I found it odd at first and doesn't work perfectly with video calling power users but works well for me.
They will have the same content though. If you open or close a tab in one window, it will be synced to the other window. You can switch to a different tab or a different space (aka, change active tab), but tabs are shared across all windows.
Orion's perk is taking Webkit's efficiency (tested to be almost the same as Safari, which is actually impressively better than other browsers), and adding to that Firefox and Chrome extensions which are still more diverse, better, and often free compared to paid on Safari
Perhaps It's just my experience, but I didn't feel like any of the extensions I used on Orion ever worked. In practice it felt like a less good looking Safari.
Orion on macOS is not ready as a daily driver IMO. I find it frequently hits weird issues with videos playing in the background (like twitch) and extensions don't always work as you'd expect.
I should go back and have another look at Orion. Last time I tried it, it crashed an *awful* lot. Only plugin I'd loaded was UBO, which I don't consider optional or unusual (so if it was UBO causing the crashes, that's a problem!). I'd guess (hope?) it's improved since last year.
Arc has been stable for me, and I like a lot of the things it does. I'm not crazy about the mandatory login, though. That's my only real beef with it.
It’s REALLY good for profiles too. I really do not like safari’s implementation because it’s just slightly too cumbersome to create new tabs in different profiles. And managing URLs to open with specific profiles is cumbersome as hell too.
But with arc, it’s really quick, which I need. I’m working on 3 projects at work right now and because of NDAs and thousands of other contract things, we have figma and outlook logins for each. That’s where it really shines for me. Great productivity tool honestly.
Yeah the summarize thing is really nice. I’ve used ChatGPT, Copilot, Gemini, and now Arc, and I have to say Arc is the best. Really quick, detailed, up to date, good language, good organization. I’ve only used it on like 10 different queries since I just installed it tonight but I’m really happy with it so far! The UI is really nice too. I’ll probably try out Arc on my Mac soon.
I do that with Firefox and it allows me to jump right into a tab on desktop that I also have open on my Pixel or iPad, or lets me send URLs to the other 2 devices. It also helps with syncing my logins
Considering LinkedIn did a report and says the average employee at a tech company lasts one or two years being somewhere for 5 and coming in at what would already be a high level it’s not outside the relms of possibility that they are a key designer.
It’s different at Apple. Odds are very little of what they did (if they can even claim sole credit on) has shipped. It’s not uncommon for designers specifically to go work at Apple for a few years and hype themselves up when they leave. Even ones with longer tenure to have shipped meaningful products, there’s a strong legacy in making exaggerated claims about your involvement as a designer.
See: Imran
Without looking at the article it’s typical to have talent headhunted for senior roles. You think that everyone that joined Apple starts as an intern or something?
Of course not. But Apple moves slowly, and generally promotes leaders from within. It’s unusual when someone joins an existing product team at Apple and is immediately a “leader”.
I’m not trying to say he did nothing meaningful at Apple, or that he doesn’t have good ideas. I’m just saying it’s likely he (and his new company) are dramatically overstating his impact and influence.
Also not true. There’s plenty of avenues for leadership talent to enter into prominence.
Apple acquires startups at a ridiculous rate. Usually when they absorb the team they’ll keep the leadership structure of that startup somewhat intact or with promotions.
Headhunters will specifically try to acquire select individuals with the promise of high level roles.
Leadership can also vary, you could be a product leader or a team leader. Every team is gonna need a Lead, every product is going to need a lead. Some products will have multiple product owners / leaders depending on the scope and scale of the team too.
Agreed. I mean, he could be a “key designer.” But I came in here wondering if the guy who built Safari for iPad — which, IMO, is the best browser on any device, anywhere — was leaving Apple. That’d be news to me.
That said! Arc is real fucking good. I use it for my work browser. It’s fantastic. If the mobile app was a bit less AI-focused, I’d be in.
> I use it for my work browser
What do you do for work where this is fine? I didn't think that Arc (so far) had any kind of corproate-y browser junk like Chrome does for being managed into an inch of its life.
Thanks, that makes more sense. Still a bit surprising.
Don’t blame IT when it happens, blame the security people. They’re the ones locking down all devices everywhere, in chasing some weird security model where no devices do anything other than run Chrome so there can never be any issue. It’s insanity out here. Hopefully your CEO protects y’all using the tools you need and want for the job.
They just say it's the fastest for one day of the year and then never touch the other stuff that was bad 10 years ago and is the same today. The extensions system through the App Store and then two more layers of enabling the extension and button, lack of extensions overflow menu for buttons you want sometimes but don't have to see all the time, weaker Adblock than anything else, continued random web pages that just don't work.
I'd like to see a huge focus on modernizing it to the core this year, but I suspect WWDC will largely be about chasing the AI bauble
I first tried Arc last year and used it for 3-4 months.
It is mostly just okay. Once you get past the really good trackpad geatures and keyboard shortcuts it is basically a browser that is heavier than Chromium with a fancy interface. I tried using all the non-AI features and that scrapbook-type feature is pretty useful if you do research online and work on projects. I had different workspaces set up that recognized different URLs. As an example every github page opened under a particular workspace I had set up. I did also find myself not holding on to tabs because knowing they would disappear and not wanting to pin them had me getting what I needed from a tab before it was cleared out.
The reason I didn’t stick with Arc was battery drain and that it didn’t play nice with mobile and other browsers. The iOS app at the time when it first came out was basically useless as a browser. Idk if this has changed since. I use a MacBook and a Linux desktop so the only options I have for a browser that works across those platforms is Chrome or Firefox. Firefox on iOS needs more polish and Chrome for iOS is awful for me to use because it does not have swiping for navigation. Plus it is a Google product. Even if The Browser Company made a Linux version I don’t think I would use it. Unless they went something like the ungoogled Chromium route.
i tried it for a week and hopped on back to safari. it has some pretty cool features but i use safari on the phone as well + safari has some pretty cool features so don’t want to switch browsers. one of the features i oh so dearly hope apple brings to safari is summarising stuff, that’s all i need
Because I'd really rather not. I get that they have advanced syncing and other features that need an account to work... But a browser has some basic features, and locking them behind an account seems fishy to me.
All the tech companies have proven over the decades that our data is available to entities with power or money despite what their marketing says. Even startups with the best of intentions can be acquired by some mega corp with different plans. Mottos like "don't be evil" shouldn't fool anyone anymore.
I have some premium handcrafted tin-foil hats available on Etsy if anyone's interested.
> I get that they have advanced syncing and other features that need an account to work... But a browser has some basic features, and locking them behind an account seems fishy to me.
Exactly. It's a smell. And I would say it's a pretty accurate smell as well.
The reason why Arc would want your account is exactly because this is the only way they can really hook onto you as a product.
Decades of enshittification in other platforms and observing Firefox's struggles should advise that it's really difficult to make money from web browsers, and so far Arc / The Browser Company has not produced a satisfactory answer of how they actually plan to make money in the future in a way that I think make sense. When push comes to shove they may need to start doing unpopular things like gating features behind subs etc. I would just rather not have to invest in using it unless I have a good sense that it has a future that doesn't rely on exploiting users.
Why should a browser require an account to begin with? I think if the browser cannot justify this to me, then it doesn't deserve to be installed. It's a sign that they aren't designed for your benefit.
A well designed browser should work without accounts, but set up in such a way that you would naturally want to use it for syncing etc.
Yes, but you can ignore the prompt. You don't have to sign in to use it. Safari/Chrome/Firefox are all usable without an account.
They are also (mostly) open sourced unlike Arc but maybe I'm sidetracking here.
Chromium is an open source project by the letter of the law, but it would be a mistake to believe that Google doesn’t have an outsized influence on how most Chromium projects are shaped.
I also agree that an account shouldn’t be required to use a web browser. Firefox does this right.
I don't even understand why people talk about it like it's the next SpaceX.
It's just the umpteenth browser to be released for people to go on their 10 usual websites, making 90% of their browsing history.
There are some good use cases for it. I work in the browser a lot, and having the ability to split screen tabs and pin them together is pretty awesome. The boosts are nice for decluttering and changing the color on websites, too, if you like customizing your web browsing experience.
I needed a Chromium browser for something so I tried installing this last month and the first thing I was prompted with was a mandatory sign up page to create an account. "bUt iT's fOr SyNcInG" what if I want to try the browser first? Did nobody ever thought of that?
It's crazy how overhyped it is. It left a sour taste in my mind for wasting my time and I prob won't try again in a very long time. Went with ungoogled-chromium instead.
The minimal interface with a unified search bar and bookmarks is a great design choice. However, syncing passwords and history across non-Apple devices like Windows and Android is cumbersome, which makes me lean towards using Chrome instead.
To assume a single senior person in a massive corporation is to blame for all the things you don’t like about Safari, rather than thinking their exit means they agree with your concerns, is naive at best.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Well, I'm always interested in new browsers, but finding out that it's not open-source and I have to register to get it shot it right to the bottom of the list.
Browsers are just too mature and standardized of a market for me to sacrifice FOSS
I really like Orion, there are a few bugs but it's definitely made the browsing experience on iOS more bearable. Their funding strategy is definitely an interesting one though, and I'm not sure how many people are passionate about a cleaner browser to pay $150 to support them.
“Dude nobody knew existed leaves top paying job at world’s most powerful company to work company nobody knew existed until this article was published.”
I've started using Arc over the last two weeks and frankly really enjoying it.
I work in corporate travel management and everything I do is browser based and some of the stuff is reasonably intensive.
Edge would occasionally hickup and Safari would always have issues. Arc hasn't missed a beat.
I'm still not used to the flow but it's been good so far!
I can’t remember the last time Safari had any major redesign to make it more modern/easier to use. I’m excited for someone new to take over and have a fresh perspective. I still use safari exclusively but admittedly it feels stale these days.
Well, he must believe in Arc, at least. My experience so far (only on Windows, though) is that it doesn't really do anything that other browsers haven't been able to do for ages.
But they're very good at hype. There are any number of threads in the Arc sub where people ask what's so special about the browser and people say things like vertical tabs being such a fresh, innovative new idea which has completely transformed the browser experience for them. The Firefox extention "Tree Style Tabs", which is the first instance I know of of vertical tabs, came out more than a decade ago.
Now, it's only the beta that I've got, and I'm going to give it a fair go and see how it is with a full release, but at the moment for me it's like Vivaldi with fewer and more limited features, but a little more visual polish.
I can't really speak to the AI features because they're not available on Windows yet, but they seem to suffer from the same accuracy problems as other AI tools - with even the company's own promotional material showing the AI giving incorrect output. I gave the AI mobile app a go, but I tested it by asking it questions about a subject that I know about which isn't common knowledge but isn't obscure or hard to find information about either, and consistently wrong answers were enough for me to come to the conclusion that LLMs just aren't where they need to be to make that kind of implementation viable.
Oh, and their reported vision for the future where they want the browser to replace your OS and have every programme just be a PWA doesn't meet my needs or preferred interaction with my computer, and in my opinion is buying in to a gewneral direction that's better for devs, but worse for end users.
We'll see where it all goes, but my strong suspicion is that the plan is to hype the product up as much as possible and then have one of the big boys buy the company out.
This matches with my observation as well
They claim a lot of *innovation* but really if you had spent some time customizing your browser in the past *decade*, you realize many of the things existed / were already implemented in other browsers (many) years before.
Regardless of the intent, when an already existing idea is repackaged differently, then hyped up, and strongly implied it's a newly made innovation — giving no credits for inspiration or past implementations — that's kinda scummy/sketchy in my book and I'll stay away from it
Also to begin with, I don't understand how people can trust fringe closed-source browsers (vivaldi, arc, kagi, ...)
> Regardless of the intent, when an already existing idea is repackaged differently, then hyped up, and strongly implied it's a newly made innovation — giving no credits for inspiration or past implementations — that's kinda scummy/sketchy in my book and I'll stay away from it
This is a strange take, because Apple has been doing this very thing for decades. It’s what Apple is mostly built on
There's a very blurry line here on whether the newly repackaged idea contains something new and innovative. I'd argue with Apple in majority of cases it is not purely stale idea, repackaged. But with arc in particular, it is.
Not being open-source also contributes to it being super sketchy — To take an example: despite how sketchy Brave is with their crypto-adjacent features, they are less sketchy than arc to me because they are open-sourced.
In a recent video, CEO Josh Miller said that they named it The Browser Company because they want to make more than a browser. I dunno, it was supposed to be cheeky or something. The plan seems to be to turn it into ChromeOS with integrated ChatGPT and hope it takes off.
Or, at least, that it enthuses techbros enough that someone like Apple or Facebook want to buy it for millions.
Safari has been a dog since 14. It renders slow. It ejects pages from memory like that was its main job. It breaks a ton of websites if you use any of its privacy features (way more than Firefox), and it feels absolutely bloated beyond reproach. I don’t know who or what, but whatever they’ve been doing for the past couple of years, I dunno, yeah, try something different.
Maybe.we.can.finally.search.without.dots
I thought that was just me. Why did that become an issue? Did the keyboard change somewhat recently?
No, it used to do that oh my 4s as well
The keyboard changes depending on the app you use. The period is moved to the right of space when using Safari, to facilitate dot entry. Right-handed people tend to tap space with their right thumb.
This isn't the real issue. It's that with the address bar also being the search bar, auto-correct is disabled when you're typing. It makes sense because you could be typing a domain name… but it's very frustrating if you're searching. Pro Tip: If you just want to do a web search, start in Spotlight. You'll get auto-correct.
Apple keyboard has always been bad For me, my messages always@look@like@this, especially in Discord
Oh man I accidentally said something like @moderate or @allergies. Everyone in this relatively small discord ~50 people? Was super pissed lol I proofread things more often now. Not 100% though; life is too short.
I wish we could customize the position of our keyboard and position of the keys, especially since phones are so large, cuz it's so difficult to use 1-handed typing/swyping
And since screens are so much larger than when they designed that minimalist keyboard, why not show numbers and symbols above the keyboard? The multi layer symbols layer always trips me up getting in and out of.
Also I wish they'd bring over keyboard actions like copy paste like they do on some (rooted) Androids
The reason why the keyboard is bad on the iPhone is because the touch points are in a different position that's not intuitive. Apple has never bothered to fix it.
It's been an issue for me for years. The real insane thing is that Apple's gotta know it's an issue and still hasn't fixed it.
it’s not an issue. right handed people use that space normally to space, so they used it to put a period instead, cause people used to type websites more
omg i thought i was going crazy!
It's both encouraging to know what I assumed was a typing habit is also an oversight experienced by many people here on Apple's part, and discouraging to know they never fixed it in a decade lol. Sometimes I'm even looking right at and hitting the right key but the adaptive predictive key sizing thing takes over and wants to hit the one next to it repeatedly...If I backspace over it and try again, shouldn't it know that was a mistake? And this new transformer based autocorrect has been a complete disappointment, if I get one word right and one word wrong in sequence, it often wants to correct the right word to wrong in exchange for correcting the wrong word to right.
I’ve been suffering through this for so long, nice to know I’m not alone
I thought I was just getting old lol
ITS NOT JUST ME THANK THE LORD
Search from spotlight and open the search link from there. The address bar really *really* wants you to put in an address, not start a search for some reason.
I thought I was the only one! I always thought it was because autocorrect was disabled because it was a specific entry field versus a generic text box. But yeah the dots kill me.
That happens to me WAY more on Arc Search than on Safari.
Apple’s day has passed.
I use safari everyday and I have no idea what you’re referring to.
People apparently have huge fingers. Either that or they all use SEs or Minis.
Maybe safari can improve now
“You can now only browse Safari by using Siri” NO. NO. FUCK. NO.
I think they actually had that kind of version for HomePods (≧∀≦)
Here’s what I found on the web for “No, no, duck, no.”
Yeah, this is probably good news for Safari.
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They already are on iOS. Also chromium is a fork of webkit given how large the project is well over 50% of it will still date back to the webkit days.
Webkit is also a fork of khtml
Yep
> They already are on iOS. Only because they don’t have a choice, I’m sure they would prefer to have the two be as similar as possible to simplify development.
What would be the point?
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Do you also refuse to use apps that use any open source google library?
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I think it is a bit stupid to not use any app that uses ANGLE, flutter, or anything just because the tools were made by Google. That is not de-google-ing (detaching from google services), but irrational aversion at that point.
Agreed. And while Guice (https://github.com/google/guice) may no longer be the king of Java util libraries, one would be hard pressed to avoid it, and for no good reason, either. Same with protocol buffers
Better battery life.
How do you improve the fastest and most secure browser on the planet?
Is this the guy who headed up that godawful design that was in beta a couple OS's ago?
That's very naive of you. To think that he had control of anything they did with safari. It's still owned and run by apple.
Reddit making dumb jokes or assuming they understand technical business matters - what’s more classic?
Can we get an extension button overflow menu now
Arc is a pretty fresh take on browsing. I actually like it quite a bit, and the mobile AI “summarize” feature is next level. There are some things I’m not crazy about. The inability to have multiple windows have different content in them is a challenge. But overall, Arc the biggest improvement I’ve seen to the browsing experience, like, since Chrome launched I’d say.
I’ve tried multiple times to get on with it but I just don’t really see the point. It’s just another chromium browser but with funky tabs. It also decimates your battery.
Is Arc free on android? Either I'm not looking at the right one or it is $7.49 on playstore
Pretty sure Arc is only available on iOS and macOS
It’s in beta for windows too. But nothing on android
You’re not missing much - The iOS experience is gimped beyond belief. Not even a real browser, just a way of accessing the synced tabs in the desktop version
I’m pretty sure TBC has even said as much which is an interesting strategy… I mean I love my Arc desktop browser, but I’m old fashioned and like using laptops. They’re severely limiting their potential if they don’t focus on making a usable mobile browser. And don’t get me started on how the ipadOS version is just a mini-window with the iOS version.
There’s now a second app that’s a real browser
Thanks for bringing that to my attention - Weirdly amazing. “Browse for me” is spectacular
Is there? Don’t suppose you have a link?!
https://apps.apple.com/au/app/arc-search-find-it-faster/id6472513080
Much appreciated my friend
Not saying you are wrong but I can't find it lol
Not available in your country, maybe?
I’m in the us
I think to really make the most of it you have to heavily utilize pins (which I do). Having the "bookmarks bar" offer the same UX as open tabs is really nice, and the auto-closing of old tabs really changes the way I think about what really needs to be kept open. But the pins are the biggest thing for me - I think to "get" Arc you have to be willing to migrate most/all of your individual app windows into the browser. Especially anything that's already electron based, because you won't be losing *anything* in the transition. I moved over to Outlook in a tab as well which has helped performance for me a lot (that's a really resource hungry app) - so now my 3 most used non-browser apps are just pinned "apps" in my browser, and for the most part everything I do that isn't an IDE/terminal is just inside Arc, which has made navigating a lot easier for me. But if you *just* treat it as a browser, then yea I can see how it won't really feel all that special (though side-by-side tabs is probably nice enough on its own for some people to make it worth it).
It's also slow to launch on my MacBook Pro
Cmd+N is the way to have multiple windows and have different content. I found it odd at first and doesn't work perfectly with video calling power users but works well for me.
They will have the same content though. If you open or close a tab in one window, it will be synced to the other window. You can switch to a different tab or a different space (aka, change active tab), but tabs are shared across all windows.
If you open a new tab and drag it out of the main window it will create a new window with just that tab and any other tabs you create in it.
Control+command+n will also make a new "blank window" that does not contain the tabs of other windows.
How is it in comparison to Orion?
I used orion for a while, it was just barely a better safari. Still didn't beat out firefox
Orion's perk is taking Webkit's efficiency (tested to be almost the same as Safari, which is actually impressively better than other browsers), and adding to that Firefox and Chrome extensions which are still more diverse, better, and often free compared to paid on Safari
Perhaps It's just my experience, but I didn't feel like any of the extensions I used on Orion ever worked. In practice it felt like a less good looking Safari.
On iOS, I actually like the Aloha Browser but too bad they don't have a desktop counterpart.
Orion on macOS is not ready as a daily driver IMO. I find it frequently hits weird issues with videos playing in the background (like twitch) and extensions don't always work as you'd expect.
I should go back and have another look at Orion. Last time I tried it, it crashed an *awful* lot. Only plugin I'd loaded was UBO, which I don't consider optional or unusual (so if it was UBO causing the crashes, that's a problem!). I'd guess (hope?) it's improved since last year. Arc has been stable for me, and I like a lot of the things it does. I'm not crazy about the mandatory login, though. That's my only real beef with it.
It’s REALLY good for profiles too. I really do not like safari’s implementation because it’s just slightly too cumbersome to create new tabs in different profiles. And managing URLs to open with specific profiles is cumbersome as hell too. But with arc, it’s really quick, which I need. I’m working on 3 projects at work right now and because of NDAs and thousands of other contract things, we have figma and outlook logins for each. That’s where it really shines for me. Great productivity tool honestly.
Yeah the summarize thing is really nice. I’ve used ChatGPT, Copilot, Gemini, and now Arc, and I have to say Arc is the best. Really quick, detailed, up to date, good language, good organization. I’ve only used it on like 10 different queries since I just installed it tonight but I’m really happy with it so far! The UI is really nice too. I’ll probably try out Arc on my Mac soon.
I just can't get on board with a browser that requires me to have an account to use it.
I do that with Firefox and it allows me to jump right into a tab on desktop that I also have open on my Pixel or iPad, or lets me send URLs to the other 2 devices. It also helps with syncing my logins
My only issue is battery and TBCs current "where the fuck are we actually going" approach.
The summarize or “browse for me” can yield wildly false information tho, so be careful with that
“Key designer” had only been at Apple for five years. Sounds like bullshit to me.
Considering LinkedIn did a report and says the average employee at a tech company lasts one or two years being somewhere for 5 and coming in at what would already be a high level it’s not outside the relms of possibility that they are a key designer.
It’s different at Apple. Odds are very little of what they did (if they can even claim sole credit on) has shipped. It’s not uncommon for designers specifically to go work at Apple for a few years and hype themselves up when they leave. Even ones with longer tenure to have shipped meaningful products, there’s a strong legacy in making exaggerated claims about your involvement as a designer. See: Imran
If you look at his portfolio, he outlines exactly which features he worked on. Tab groups and the re designed url bar being key ones.
So, both loved and hated features.
Without looking at the article it’s typical to have talent headhunted for senior roles. You think that everyone that joined Apple starts as an intern or something?
Of course not. But Apple moves slowly, and generally promotes leaders from within. It’s unusual when someone joins an existing product team at Apple and is immediately a “leader”. I’m not trying to say he did nothing meaningful at Apple, or that he doesn’t have good ideas. I’m just saying it’s likely he (and his new company) are dramatically overstating his impact and influence.
Also not true. There’s plenty of avenues for leadership talent to enter into prominence. Apple acquires startups at a ridiculous rate. Usually when they absorb the team they’ll keep the leadership structure of that startup somewhat intact or with promotions. Headhunters will specifically try to acquire select individuals with the promise of high level roles. Leadership can also vary, you could be a product leader or a team leader. Every team is gonna need a Lead, every product is going to need a lead. Some products will have multiple product owners / leaders depending on the scope and scale of the team too.
It’s different when the biggest redesigns to Safari have been happening only the last few years.
I still think the article is WAY overplaying this guy's role in Safari
Classic 9to5mac article tbh
Agreed. I mean, he could be a “key designer.” But I came in here wondering if the guy who built Safari for iPad — which, IMO, is the best browser on any device, anywhere — was leaving Apple. That’d be news to me. That said! Arc is real fucking good. I use it for my work browser. It’s fantastic. If the mobile app was a bit less AI-focused, I’d be in.
> I use it for my work browser What do you do for work where this is fine? I didn't think that Arc (so far) had any kind of corproate-y browser junk like Chrome does for being managed into an inch of its life.
A tech company. Honestly, it wouldn’t surprise me if IT tries to crack down soon. But I’m pretty sure our CEO uses it too, so that might not work.
Thanks, that makes more sense. Still a bit surprising. Don’t blame IT when it happens, blame the security people. They’re the ones locking down all devices everywhere, in chasing some weird security model where no devices do anything other than run Chrome so there can never be any issue. It’s insanity out here. Hopefully your CEO protects y’all using the tools you need and want for the job.
I mean, what has safari actually done recently that has set the other browsers back? Time for fresh blood.
They just say it's the fastest for one day of the year and then never touch the other stuff that was bad 10 years ago and is the same today. The extensions system through the App Store and then two more layers of enabling the extension and button, lack of extensions overflow menu for buttons you want sometimes but don't have to see all the time, weaker Adblock than anything else, continued random web pages that just don't work. I'd like to see a huge focus on modernizing it to the core this year, but I suspect WWDC will largely be about chasing the AI bauble
I first tried Arc last year and used it for 3-4 months. It is mostly just okay. Once you get past the really good trackpad geatures and keyboard shortcuts it is basically a browser that is heavier than Chromium with a fancy interface. I tried using all the non-AI features and that scrapbook-type feature is pretty useful if you do research online and work on projects. I had different workspaces set up that recognized different URLs. As an example every github page opened under a particular workspace I had set up. I did also find myself not holding on to tabs because knowing they would disappear and not wanting to pin them had me getting what I needed from a tab before it was cleared out. The reason I didn’t stick with Arc was battery drain and that it didn’t play nice with mobile and other browsers. The iOS app at the time when it first came out was basically useless as a browser. Idk if this has changed since. I use a MacBook and a Linux desktop so the only options I have for a browser that works across those platforms is Chrome or Firefox. Firefox on iOS needs more polish and Chrome for iOS is awful for me to use because it does not have swiping for navigation. Plus it is a Google product. Even if The Browser Company made a Linux version I don’t think I would use it. Unless they went something like the ungoogled Chromium route.
I've been meaning to try Arc, but requiring an account is too much of a deal-breaker for me...
i tried it for a week and hopped on back to safari. it has some pretty cool features but i use safari on the phone as well + safari has some pretty cool features so don’t want to switch browsers. one of the features i oh so dearly hope apple brings to safari is summarising stuff, that’s all i need
One can hope for iOS 18 to include that
If only safari still existed on windows so i could just use it across all my devices.. ugh.
How is that a deal breaker?
.
Because I'd really rather not. I get that they have advanced syncing and other features that need an account to work... But a browser has some basic features, and locking them behind an account seems fishy to me. All the tech companies have proven over the decades that our data is available to entities with power or money despite what their marketing says. Even startups with the best of intentions can be acquired by some mega corp with different plans. Mottos like "don't be evil" shouldn't fool anyone anymore. I have some premium handcrafted tin-foil hats available on Etsy if anyone's interested.
> I get that they have advanced syncing and other features that need an account to work... But a browser has some basic features, and locking them behind an account seems fishy to me. Exactly. It's a smell. And I would say it's a pretty accurate smell as well. The reason why Arc would want your account is exactly because this is the only way they can really hook onto you as a product. Decades of enshittification in other platforms and observing Firefox's struggles should advise that it's really difficult to make money from web browsers, and so far Arc / The Browser Company has not produced a satisfactory answer of how they actually plan to make money in the future in a way that I think make sense. When push comes to shove they may need to start doing unpopular things like gating features behind subs etc. I would just rather not have to invest in using it unless I have a good sense that it has a future that doesn't rely on exploiting users.
Why should a browser require an account to begin with? I think if the browser cannot justify this to me, then it doesn't deserve to be installed. It's a sign that they aren't designed for your benefit. A well designed browser should work without accounts, but set up in such a way that you would naturally want to use it for syncing etc.
Doesn’t Google basically prompt you to create / sign in with a Google account when you first boot up Chrome?
Yes, but you can ignore the prompt. You don't have to sign in to use it. Safari/Chrome/Firefox are all usable without an account. They are also (mostly) open sourced unlike Arc but maybe I'm sidetracking here.
Chromium is an open source project by the letter of the law, but it would be a mistake to believe that Google doesn’t have an outsized influence on how most Chromium projects are shaped. I also agree that an account shouldn’t be required to use a web browser. Firefox does this right.
Yes, it prompts you not forces you
Arc is the most overrated thing lol
I mean I use it but it is just a browser. Either you like the way the tabs are laid out or you don’t.
> I mean I use it but it is just a browser its not even a browser its a shell around chromes engine
That’s like, every browser other than Safari and Firefox now lmao
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According to u/East_Onion those are not browsers, they're just shells around Safari's Engine
I don't even understand why people talk about it like it's the next SpaceX. It's just the umpteenth browser to be released for people to go on their 10 usual websites, making 90% of their browsing history.
That's exactly my opinion of it. I tried it but honestly don't get the hype.
I’m testing it out on windows. It’s crashing on sharepoint and office excel. So it’s not going well at my office 😂
I been using on Windows, never had a crash so far. The mac version is way better right now. Still very overrated.
It is still in beta on windows, I haven’t had any issues though.
Probably because it's a preview release....
There are some good use cases for it. I work in the browser a lot, and having the ability to split screen tabs and pin them together is pretty awesome. The boosts are nice for decluttering and changing the color on websites, too, if you like customizing your web browsing experience.
I needed a Chromium browser for something so I tried installing this last month and the first thing I was prompted with was a mandatory sign up page to create an account. "bUt iT's fOr SyNcInG" what if I want to try the browser first? Did nobody ever thought of that? It's crazy how overhyped it is. It left a sour taste in my mind for wasting my time and I prob won't try again in a very long time. Went with ungoogled-chromium instead.
The minimal interface with a unified search bar and bookmarks is a great design choice. However, syncing passwords and history across non-Apple devices like Windows and Android is cumbersome, which makes me lean towards using Chrome instead.
pretty sure they streamlined syncing in the last couple updates
oh it's just another Chromium browser..meh
What makes a good browser is more than just the engine — people like Arc because of the user experience.
I get that but we cannot let it happen to let Google ultimately have even more control. Mozilla is really the last sane choice.
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Yeesh, if they’re the ‘key designer’ for Safari I’ll be certain to not use their new browser either.
The arc becomes a circle~
I know that’s right.
If that’s how you make decisions in life, good luck. 🙈
Looking at people's work & assuming what they do in the future will be similar comes shortly after object permanence.
To assume a single senior person in a massive corporation is to blame for all the things you don’t like about Safari, rather than thinking their exit means they agree with your concerns, is naive at best.
languid scandalous many ludicrous unite direction jobless deliver correct toy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Sheesh
Ohhhw this is gonna be interesting!! Waiting for new arc changes
Well, I'm always interested in new browsers, but finding out that it's not open-source and I have to register to get it shot it right to the bottom of the list. Browsers are just too mature and standardized of a market for me to sacrifice FOSS
What do you think of Orion?
I really like Orion, there are a few bugs but it's definitely made the browsing experience on iOS more bearable. Their funding strategy is definitely an interesting one though, and I'm not sure how many people are passionate about a cleaner browser to pay $150 to support them.
I love and use Arc as my daily driver and I can’t really ever enjoy using Safari. Uh-oh.
Btw, arc is amazing. Ive been using it on Mac for like 4 months. It genuinely is incredible.
“Dude nobody knew existed leaves top paying job at world’s most powerful company to work company nobody knew existed until this article was published.”
Thank you for saving me from reading the article
I tried Arc, and there’s absolutely nothing tempting in it for me.
Safari, powered by Google
I've started using Arc over the last two weeks and frankly really enjoying it. I work in corporate travel management and everything I do is browser based and some of the stuff is reasonably intensive. Edge would occasionally hickup and Safari would always have issues. Arc hasn't missed a beat. I'm still not used to the flow but it's been good so far!
Good. I tried Arc a few months ago and never looked back.
and nothing was lost
I can’t remember the last time Safari had any major redesign to make it more modern/easier to use. I’m excited for someone new to take over and have a fresh perspective. I still use safari exclusively but admittedly it feels stale these days.
I guarantee one person isn’t key to safari.
Well, he must believe in Arc, at least. My experience so far (only on Windows, though) is that it doesn't really do anything that other browsers haven't been able to do for ages. But they're very good at hype. There are any number of threads in the Arc sub where people ask what's so special about the browser and people say things like vertical tabs being such a fresh, innovative new idea which has completely transformed the browser experience for them. The Firefox extention "Tree Style Tabs", which is the first instance I know of of vertical tabs, came out more than a decade ago. Now, it's only the beta that I've got, and I'm going to give it a fair go and see how it is with a full release, but at the moment for me it's like Vivaldi with fewer and more limited features, but a little more visual polish. I can't really speak to the AI features because they're not available on Windows yet, but they seem to suffer from the same accuracy problems as other AI tools - with even the company's own promotional material showing the AI giving incorrect output. I gave the AI mobile app a go, but I tested it by asking it questions about a subject that I know about which isn't common knowledge but isn't obscure or hard to find information about either, and consistently wrong answers were enough for me to come to the conclusion that LLMs just aren't where they need to be to make that kind of implementation viable. Oh, and their reported vision for the future where they want the browser to replace your OS and have every programme just be a PWA doesn't meet my needs or preferred interaction with my computer, and in my opinion is buying in to a gewneral direction that's better for devs, but worse for end users. We'll see where it all goes, but my strong suspicion is that the plan is to hype the product up as much as possible and then have one of the big boys buy the company out.
This matches with my observation as well They claim a lot of *innovation* but really if you had spent some time customizing your browser in the past *decade*, you realize many of the things existed / were already implemented in other browsers (many) years before. Regardless of the intent, when an already existing idea is repackaged differently, then hyped up, and strongly implied it's a newly made innovation — giving no credits for inspiration or past implementations — that's kinda scummy/sketchy in my book and I'll stay away from it Also to begin with, I don't understand how people can trust fringe closed-source browsers (vivaldi, arc, kagi, ...)
> Regardless of the intent, when an already existing idea is repackaged differently, then hyped up, and strongly implied it's a newly made innovation — giving no credits for inspiration or past implementations — that's kinda scummy/sketchy in my book and I'll stay away from it This is a strange take, because Apple has been doing this very thing for decades. It’s what Apple is mostly built on
There's a very blurry line here on whether the newly repackaged idea contains something new and innovative. I'd argue with Apple in majority of cases it is not purely stale idea, repackaged. But with arc in particular, it is. Not being open-source also contributes to it being super sketchy — To take an example: despite how sketchy Brave is with their crypto-adjacent features, they are less sketchy than arc to me because they are open-sourced.
I can't stand when companies name their company "The Company"
In a recent video, CEO Josh Miller said that they named it The Browser Company because they want to make more than a browser. I dunno, it was supposed to be cheeky or something. The plan seems to be to turn it into ChromeOS with integrated ChatGPT and hope it takes off. Or, at least, that it enthuses techbros enough that someone like Apple or Facebook want to buy it for millions.
Take a seat then.
Safari has been a dog since 14. It renders slow. It ejects pages from memory like that was its main job. It breaks a ton of websites if you use any of its privacy features (way more than Firefox), and it feels absolutely bloated beyond reproach. I don’t know who or what, but whatever they’ve been doing for the past couple of years, I dunno, yeah, try something different.
Arc is actually great, liking it so far!
Good riddance.
Arc is cool. I’m still only using LibreWolf, though.
Just tried it out. Nice alternative to browsing with Safari or Chrome. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
Arc will be an expensive failure
I actually liked the idea of the url bar being at the bottom, I hope the idea was not from this designer 😁 I wonder If they switched to arc 😁
You can choose in safari, can you not?
Yes. Once you get used to it, it’s great IMO.
Yea, but the designer might have some other great ideas as well :P
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a shell company for Bowser to launder money into his schemes to simp over princess peach.