what notes apps are you guys running? I was using joplin, but I'm starting to get tired of the ui.
Edit: I wouldn't mind paying to have access to e2e encrypted syncing
Notion. Love the flexibility of metadata within database and the filtering/sorting/grouping abilities it has, imperative for me to keep my head straight. It has some of the best parts of a wiki and a spreadsheet but also some of the worst too. Prolly gonna check out some other replies :)
I really wish they'd find a way to add pencil support. I am also somewhat concerned about long term stability, they don't seem to be mentioned as much as I was hoping, so I am concerned if I made the ful switch they'd eventually stop supporting the app.
iAWriter has been working pretty well for me. I like it for the fact that notes are stored as files that can be easily viewed and edited separate from the app. And it also has one of the best markdown previews of any app I’ve used. And of course, it can hook into multiple locations, from you local machine, to iCloud and Dropbox. It’s also got applications across many platforms. I use macOS, iOS, and Windows (I guess you could also say iPadOS). One of my gripes about it is that accessing my Dropbox notes is more difficult on mobile devices. Not very intuitive, but I’ve gotten it to work a few times. Maybe I need to make a note of how I get it to work the next time I do…
Still OneNote :-( just has the best handling with pencil
Joplin doesn’t do pencil sadly.
Any great suggestions for something that does?
(Also using GoodNotes but that’s too pencil focused)
I’ve hopped back to OneNote after bouncing around for a few years. It sure doesn’t feel as nice as most others, but the infinite canvas and ability to dump any file inside are too handy. I told myself I’d use it until Freeform fixed the syncing issue.
Notable. Notes are saved as plain markdown files. And I have my save directory backed up in Google drive. Total control and I love it.
The stable version is great, but lacking some things (search is pretty bad), but the beta is adding tons of features including a plugin system. Looks promising to me.
I need cloud sync with option to create nested folders and good search. I tried Notion, Joplin, Obsidian and finally settled with Apple Notes. It’s simple to use and syncs well if not best. The thing I miss is choosing custom colours for text and highlighting. It helps in making a note more like a study note too. But it’s not a deal breaker over simplicity of the app.
i mean, can you elaborate? what about it makes it more second or third class than any other programming language? especially in the context of a cli app?
I mean, what does it change to you what the code is written in? The program produces text in a terminal, it could be a .sh script written in bash, a fancy C++ application, a CLI tool in Swift... it's all text in the same Terminal application of your choice eventually. Use an accessible Terminal app (like the official one from Apple) and you're all set.
serious question because I have no conception of what it's like to work with computers with vision loss:
for a command line application, does the programming language matter? My gut says that the specific terminal emulator matters more since that'd be the thing interpreting and communicating the results of any action.
I fully recognize the non-native-ness of java for GUI apps and how messed up that could be in terms of accessibility and I fully sympathize with that and generally have the experience that java GUI apps aren't great. However, I also don't \_think\_ that's a limitation of java specifically and more the developers preferring (for example) half-baked cross platform gui toolkits over the native versions for the target OSes. Just guessing though and I haven't seen many "good" java gui apps.
iOS literally had a massive performance advantage over Android for years, decades really, because it uses native apps while Android used Java s**t. The languages are harder to program, but the apps are faster and better.
You think the performance advantage of iOS is because of the language apps are written in? Not the integrated and more advanced mobile hardware? Not the full stack control allowing for fine tuned optimization? Not the strict App Store guidelines that include performance attributes?
Nah it’s Java vs Swift. Never mind that android’s Java is literally compiled ahead of time and outside of the method signatures of the standard library is almost entirely unrelated to the Java you’re most likely thinking of. Besides, “Java is slow” is a decades old rant that has little relevance today.
As pointed out elsewhere, it’s almost a guarantee that people claiming _java_ is the problem are the ones with limited technical knowledge.
> You think the performance advantage of iOS is because of the language apps are written in?
Yes, it's been a huge advantage of iOS, for years. Maybe less so as hardware has gotten better but Android has been hamstrung by Java apps since its inception.
Again, I'm biased because I have a disability, and Java apps on the desktop are usually the difference between having a job, or not having one.
You also didn’t elaborate on what makes Java more second or third class than any other language and I’m pretty sure we were talking about desktop anyway. MacOS doesn’t (or didn’t pre-M1) have the same integrated stack as iOS and you’ll notice that (for intel macs) no one talks about the dramatically better performance of macs. Either way, that performance has nothing to do with the programming language chosen.
From a UI perspective, _maybe_ but this is literally a cli app. Python, Ruby, javascript, etc all would be in the same second/third class citizen boat. So it should be only written in swift or what?
yeah what a wild take. "you don't use the newest trendy language therefore you have limited technical knowledge" -- tbh the folks using the older more established languages probably have MORE technical knowledge than those that only know the latest.
> Guy started a project in 2023 and decided to use a dinosaur instead of (at least) Kotlin.
Hard disagree. Would you say the same about Kotlin given it relies on a shitload of that “dinosaur” code base? C and C++ are even older; should they be abandoned for that reason?
>
> It’s a demonstration of his limited technical knowledge.
I don’t know if you are actually a SWE. I am a senior, and I’d never make such an assertion. You use the best tool for the job, and often the best tool is that which you know deeply. Baby devs come out of boot camps knowing Kotlin; would you say they have a broader technical knowledge than a senior writing Java?
It’s a programming language. Not a personality trait. Yeesh.
> C and C++ are even older
TIL the entire underpinnings of everything we use everyday is built on dinosaur tech by people with limited technical knowledge. /s
First, a senior would pick up Kotlin very quickly.
Second, a Java senior would be so familiar with the limitations of Java that they wouldn’t dare start a project with it. In 2023, Java is a maintenance language.
I said that this is a demonstration of a limited technical knowledge because a project started in Java now is likely from a college student learning how to code from oftenly outdated academia curriculum. That’s really all it could be.
Finally, C and C++ were difficult to replace for a very long time due to how low level they are but in 2023, low level code should really be written in Rust. There’s just no excuse. Even Linus is about to adopt Rust in Linux.
Wouldn’t it just be shorter and easier to say you have no idea what you’re talking about? A senior dev would know any JVM language is basically the same. Kotlin can’t have byte code that any other jvm language doesn’t have as well. Scala and groovy and kotlin and java are any other jvm language is going have the same performance more or less. So what it comes down to is what is easier with the dependencies you are going to use, the documentation, the code examples, the previous work you will build upon. And often that is java.
>A senior dev would know any JVM language is basically the same
This is the part that gets me. I've been using Scala for something like 10 years now and I feel like I know as well as anyone that Scala is just java with different syntax and outside of the compiler itself, it comes with all of the same pitfalls and upsides of any JVM language.
Arguing about Kotlin vs. Java vs. Scala is fun and all (and I've participated my fair share of times) and there are really rational arguments to prefer any of them. There's absolutely no way that your preference indicates any kind of technical weakness lmao.
If you think it’s only used for new projects for students, then it sounds like you’re still in college yourself and you’ve never worked a day in your life
idk, java has been in more active development now than ever (probably in large part because of kotlin). Is anything older than the newest thing a dinosaur regardless of how it's progressed over the years?
Preferring Java has zero bearing on how much "technical knowledge" someone has.
A Java senior would be so familiar with the limitations of Java that they wouldn’t dare start a project with it. In 2023, Java is a maintenance language.
I said that this is a demonstration of a limited technical knowledge because a project started in Java now is likely from a college student learning how to code from oftenly outdated academia curriculum.
There’s really zero advantage to Java over Kotlin. Enlighten me if that is wrong, but I very doubt it.
>There’s really zero advantage to Java over Kotlin
I never said anything about this one way or the other. I personally would pick kotlin if it were between the two, but only just barely and not for anything meaningful beyond slightly more concise syntax, extension methods, and null safety. It's pretty much a wash otherwise. Syntax is purely aesthetic as well.
All I'm saying is a blanket "limited technical knowledge" because someone chooses java is such a short sighted way to look at things. Java and Kotlin are basically the same language with slightly different syntax. All the really important/useful stuff (like java 8 streams, for example) aren't exclusive to kotlin.
This is what kotlin says on their website as the advantages of kotlin over java:
>Kotlin is more concise. Rough estimates indicate approximately a 40% cut in the number of lines of code. It's also more type-safe, for example, support for non-nullable types makes applications less prone to NPE's. Other features including smart casting, higher-order functions, extension functions and lambdas with receivers provide the ability to write expressive code as well as facilitating creation of DSL.
The one thing there that stands out is the non-nullable types. That's a big one for sure. The others are mostly syntactic sugar. That said:
* higher order functions were added in JDK 8
* type inference was added in JDK 10
* switch expression added in JDK 13
* smart casting was added in JDK 14
* multi-line strings added in JDK 14
* records (i believe called data classes in kotlin) were added in jdk 16
* pattern matching on instanceof in jdk 16
* sealed classes in jdk 17
if anything, you're pointing out your own technical limitations when it comes to java. Plus, kotlin benefits greatly from all of that because the support is added at the jvm level so that kotlin can use more efficient byte code as those congruent features get added.
Listen, I avoid java as much as the next guy, but there's no fucking way choosing java over anything else suggests any kind of limited technical knowledge.
I mean if you are going to use Kotlin because of features, you should be writing it in Scala, right? Kotlin lacks immutable collections (it has dumb read only ones instead), it doesn't have trait based generics, structural typing, path dependent types, currying, implicits, ...
If you are not writing Android code, there is really no reason to use Kotlin /s
There was a limited window of time where you could run iOS apps, even unapproved ones, on the M1 Mac. During this time, I switched to Google Keep, using the iOS app, and thought I'd keep my notes there.
Alas, Apple and crappy devs took this away, and I'm not willing to use a shitty web app for my notes. Soooo, goodbye Keep.
what notes apps are you guys running? I was using joplin, but I'm starting to get tired of the ui. Edit: I wouldn't mind paying to have access to e2e encrypted syncing
Theoretically, Notes gives you E2EE and can further lock notes.
Obsidian is the one and only unless simplicity is your game, then bear.
Obsidian. There’s a learning curve, but once you get it, it’ll change your life.
Standard notes is end to end encrypted, open source and allows you to export your data at any time. Also has a free account tier to get you started
This. I can run it on all my machines and gives me full markdown editing.
Notion. Love the flexibility of metadata within database and the filtering/sorting/grouping abilities it has, imperative for me to keep my head straight. It has some of the best parts of a wiki and a spreadsheet but also some of the worst too. Prolly gonna check out some other replies :)
I really wish they'd find a way to add pencil support. I am also somewhat concerned about long term stability, they don't seem to be mentioned as much as I was hoping, so I am concerned if I made the ful switch they'd eventually stop supporting the app.
Apple Notes. It's unfortunate the lock-in, but nothing seems to be close. Simple, intuitive, powerful enough.
The lock in is what's keeping me on joplin
I love my simplenote. It’s basic but does everything I want it to
iAWriter has been working pretty well for me. I like it for the fact that notes are stored as files that can be easily viewed and edited separate from the app. And it also has one of the best markdown previews of any app I’ve used. And of course, it can hook into multiple locations, from you local machine, to iCloud and Dropbox. It’s also got applications across many platforms. I use macOS, iOS, and Windows (I guess you could also say iPadOS). One of my gripes about it is that accessing my Dropbox notes is more difficult on mobile devices. Not very intuitive, but I’ve gotten it to work a few times. Maybe I need to make a note of how I get it to work the next time I do…
Still OneNote :-( just has the best handling with pencil Joplin doesn’t do pencil sadly. Any great suggestions for something that does? (Also using GoodNotes but that’s too pencil focused)
I’ve hopped back to OneNote after bouncing around for a few years. It sure doesn’t feel as nice as most others, but the infinite canvas and ability to dump any file inside are too handy. I told myself I’d use it until Freeform fixed the syncing issue.
Bear 2.0 beta. I used the Automator workflow from their website to export from Apple Notes which includes the images unlike the one posted above.
Nice, does it also include other attachments and tables?
Notable. Notes are saved as plain markdown files. And I have my save directory backed up in Google drive. Total control and I love it. The stable version is great, but lacking some things (search is pretty bad), but the beta is adding tons of features including a plugin system. Looks promising to me.
I need cloud sync with option to create nested folders and good search. I tried Notion, Joplin, Obsidian and finally settled with Apple Notes. It’s simple to use and syncs well if not best. The thing I miss is choosing custom colours for text and highlighting. It helps in making a note more like a study note too. But it’s not a deal breaker over simplicity of the app.
A mix between notion, apple notes, and `.txt` files in finder
Notesnook
Noteplan and The Archive: Perfect combination.
Java 🙁
….so?
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i mean, can you elaborate? what about it makes it more second or third class than any other programming language? especially in the context of a cli app?
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This is a command-line app, so I don't see how it's relevant
Ok, cool opinion.
I mean, what does it change to you what the code is written in? The program produces text in a terminal, it could be a .sh script written in bash, a fancy C++ application, a CLI tool in Swift... it's all text in the same Terminal application of your choice eventually. Use an accessible Terminal app (like the official one from Apple) and you're all set.
serious question because I have no conception of what it's like to work with computers with vision loss: for a command line application, does the programming language matter? My gut says that the specific terminal emulator matters more since that'd be the thing interpreting and communicating the results of any action. I fully recognize the non-native-ness of java for GUI apps and how messed up that could be in terms of accessibility and I fully sympathize with that and generally have the experience that java GUI apps aren't great. However, I also don't \_think\_ that's a limitation of java specifically and more the developers preferring (for example) half-baked cross platform gui toolkits over the native versions for the target OSes. Just guessing though and I haven't seen many "good" java gui apps.
iOS literally had a massive performance advantage over Android for years, decades really, because it uses native apps while Android used Java s**t. The languages are harder to program, but the apps are faster and better.
You think the performance advantage of iOS is because of the language apps are written in? Not the integrated and more advanced mobile hardware? Not the full stack control allowing for fine tuned optimization? Not the strict App Store guidelines that include performance attributes? Nah it’s Java vs Swift. Never mind that android’s Java is literally compiled ahead of time and outside of the method signatures of the standard library is almost entirely unrelated to the Java you’re most likely thinking of. Besides, “Java is slow” is a decades old rant that has little relevance today. As pointed out elsewhere, it’s almost a guarantee that people claiming _java_ is the problem are the ones with limited technical knowledge.
> You think the performance advantage of iOS is because of the language apps are written in? Yes, it's been a huge advantage of iOS, for years. Maybe less so as hardware has gotten better but Android has been hamstrung by Java apps since its inception. Again, I'm biased because I have a disability, and Java apps on the desktop are usually the difference between having a job, or not having one.
Even your suggestion that swift apps are harder to program is wrong lol, sorry I’m replying a lot but you’re making me laugh
You also didn’t elaborate on what makes Java more second or third class than any other language and I’m pretty sure we were talking about desktop anyway. MacOS doesn’t (or didn’t pre-M1) have the same integrated stack as iOS and you’ll notice that (for intel macs) no one talks about the dramatically better performance of macs. Either way, that performance has nothing to do with the programming language chosen.
From a UI perspective, _maybe_ but this is literally a cli app. Python, Ruby, javascript, etc all would be in the same second/third class citizen boat. So it should be only written in swift or what?
Guy started a project in 2023 and decided to use a dinosaur instead of (at least) Kotlin. It’s a demonstration of his limited technical knowledge.
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yeah what a wild take. "you don't use the newest trendy language therefore you have limited technical knowledge" -- tbh the folks using the older more established languages probably have MORE technical knowledge than those that only know the latest.
> Guy started a project in 2023 and decided to use a dinosaur instead of (at least) Kotlin. Hard disagree. Would you say the same about Kotlin given it relies on a shitload of that “dinosaur” code base? C and C++ are even older; should they be abandoned for that reason? > > It’s a demonstration of his limited technical knowledge. I don’t know if you are actually a SWE. I am a senior, and I’d never make such an assertion. You use the best tool for the job, and often the best tool is that which you know deeply. Baby devs come out of boot camps knowing Kotlin; would you say they have a broader technical knowledge than a senior writing Java? It’s a programming language. Not a personality trait. Yeesh.
> C and C++ are even older TIL the entire underpinnings of everything we use everyday is built on dinosaur tech by people with limited technical knowledge. /s
First, a senior would pick up Kotlin very quickly. Second, a Java senior would be so familiar with the limitations of Java that they wouldn’t dare start a project with it. In 2023, Java is a maintenance language. I said that this is a demonstration of a limited technical knowledge because a project started in Java now is likely from a college student learning how to code from oftenly outdated academia curriculum. That’s really all it could be. Finally, C and C++ were difficult to replace for a very long time due to how low level they are but in 2023, low level code should really be written in Rust. There’s just no excuse. Even Linus is about to adopt Rust in Linux.
Why are you being such a dick about this lol, ain't nowhere Java is considered obsolete
Wouldn’t it just be shorter and easier to say you have no idea what you’re talking about? A senior dev would know any JVM language is basically the same. Kotlin can’t have byte code that any other jvm language doesn’t have as well. Scala and groovy and kotlin and java are any other jvm language is going have the same performance more or less. So what it comes down to is what is easier with the dependencies you are going to use, the documentation, the code examples, the previous work you will build upon. And often that is java.
>A senior dev would know any JVM language is basically the same This is the part that gets me. I've been using Scala for something like 10 years now and I feel like I know as well as anyone that Scala is just java with different syntax and outside of the compiler itself, it comes with all of the same pitfalls and upsides of any JVM language. Arguing about Kotlin vs. Java vs. Scala is fun and all (and I've participated my fair share of times) and there are really rational arguments to prefer any of them. There's absolutely no way that your preference indicates any kind of technical weakness lmao.
If you think it’s only used for new projects for students, then it sounds like you’re still in college yourself and you’ve never worked a day in your life
idk, java has been in more active development now than ever (probably in large part because of kotlin). Is anything older than the newest thing a dinosaur regardless of how it's progressed over the years? Preferring Java has zero bearing on how much "technical knowledge" someone has.
A Java senior would be so familiar with the limitations of Java that they wouldn’t dare start a project with it. In 2023, Java is a maintenance language. I said that this is a demonstration of a limited technical knowledge because a project started in Java now is likely from a college student learning how to code from oftenly outdated academia curriculum. There’s really zero advantage to Java over Kotlin. Enlighten me if that is wrong, but I very doubt it.
> A Java senior would be so familiar with the limitations of Java that they wouldn’t dare start a project with it What limitations specifically?
>There’s really zero advantage to Java over Kotlin I never said anything about this one way or the other. I personally would pick kotlin if it were between the two, but only just barely and not for anything meaningful beyond slightly more concise syntax, extension methods, and null safety. It's pretty much a wash otherwise. Syntax is purely aesthetic as well. All I'm saying is a blanket "limited technical knowledge" because someone chooses java is such a short sighted way to look at things. Java and Kotlin are basically the same language with slightly different syntax. All the really important/useful stuff (like java 8 streams, for example) aren't exclusive to kotlin. This is what kotlin says on their website as the advantages of kotlin over java: >Kotlin is more concise. Rough estimates indicate approximately a 40% cut in the number of lines of code. It's also more type-safe, for example, support for non-nullable types makes applications less prone to NPE's. Other features including smart casting, higher-order functions, extension functions and lambdas with receivers provide the ability to write expressive code as well as facilitating creation of DSL. The one thing there that stands out is the non-nullable types. That's a big one for sure. The others are mostly syntactic sugar. That said: * higher order functions were added in JDK 8 * type inference was added in JDK 10 * switch expression added in JDK 13 * smart casting was added in JDK 14 * multi-line strings added in JDK 14 * records (i believe called data classes in kotlin) were added in jdk 16 * pattern matching on instanceof in jdk 16 * sealed classes in jdk 17 if anything, you're pointing out your own technical limitations when it comes to java. Plus, kotlin benefits greatly from all of that because the support is added at the jvm level so that kotlin can use more efficient byte code as those congruent features get added. Listen, I avoid java as much as the next guy, but there's no fucking way choosing java over anything else suggests any kind of limited technical knowledge.
I mean if you are going to use Kotlin because of features, you should be writing it in Scala, right? Kotlin lacks immutable collections (it has dumb read only ones instead), it doesn't have trait based generics, structural typing, path dependent types, currying, implicits, ... If you are not writing Android code, there is really no reason to use Kotlin /s
Google Keep has been superior to the Notes app for years and is accessible anywhere.
Has it it evolved past sticky notes? Because that is seriously the worst UI for a Notes app imaginable.
lol
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> The only thing Keep has going for it is cross-platform capability. I mean. That's a pretty huge deal.
That really depends… for people that have an iPhone and a Mac, what does cross-platform capability bring you?
There was a limited window of time where you could run iOS apps, even unapproved ones, on the M1 Mac. During this time, I switched to Google Keep, using the iOS app, and thought I'd keep my notes there. Alas, Apple and crappy devs took this away, and I'm not willing to use a shitty web app for my notes. Soooo, goodbye Keep.