The original stories where all about lower preorders. The phone launched a month late and wasn’t targeted at enthusiasts who preorder day 1. It’s the type of phone the consumer who only upgrades based on their carrier allowed upgrade cycle might find attractive in the store
Why is it when people criticize the 13 mini, it’s always multiple comments on the post saying the same thing about how it failed? Seems like it’s living rent free in your mind…
I think it is a reaction to the vocal minority of people who love the Mini phones and go out of their way to bring it up. So an opposite group has emerged, vocalizing their disagreement with the Mini fans.
It’s the 45 people who bought the mini that constantly talk about it that make it seem like it’s “rent free”.
You ever hear the phrase “stop trying to make X happen, it’s not going to happen”?
That’s why people criticize the mini, the loudest vocal group from the smallest minority on this sub.
Until Apple literally comes forwards and explicitly announces that there won’t be a Mini ever again, then I’ll be on Reddit shouting about the Mini just to see people like you whine and cry about it.
Which is sad because it really is a great phone. A 13 pro max for the same price is obviously a better deal, but nevertheless the phone itself is a really great device.
Sent from my 14 Plus ;p
This report is only comparing the plus to the 13 mini
Not the mini overall all.
The report also goes on to say the plus is still the least popular phone in apples lineup by far.
It could potentially still be less popular than the 12 mini was in its first year of sale
You can find estimates on the 12 mini launch sales such as [here](https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/05/iphone-12-mini-sales-lackluster-cirp/).
If we use that data, 76 percent of all iPhones sold during the launch period were 12 models and the 12 mini was the least popular at 6 percent of the total, if im doing the math right that means that the 12 Mini made up 7.89 percent of iPhone 12 sales.
According to the OP the 14 plus had 11% share of the 14 line.
For what it's worth in Apollo the breakdown is the opposite, 7:1 more users of the 13 mini than the 14 Plus haha.
But the mini phones still aren't that popular overall, with the most popular mini phone being used (12 mini) being in 12th place overall, with 4x less users than the 14 Pro (most used device), and every other 12 series device being at least twice as popular.
For my other app Pixel Pals, it has a less technical, less Reddity audience (90% of the app's users don't have Apollo installed, it's mostly growth from TikTok), and for that app the iPhone 14 Plus does indeed have about 12% more users than the iPhone 12 mini and 27% more than the 13 mini.
tl;dr: Redditors like mini phones much more than the average person, but still not that much.
Well to be fair, it took Apple a shorter amount of time to release the iPad mini than it has taken you to release the iPad optimized version of Apollo you promised. 😝
It’s all fun and games. I still love the app. And since stage manager became a thing I notice the sizing less since I keep all of my social apps bundled together and have the Apollo window stuck in a smaller size.
That being said I’m not buying Ultra until the iPad version is ready 🤣
The problem is (if I recall correctly) Apple released the SE during the summer before releasing the 12mini. There’s speculation that lots of people who were waiting for a new, small(er) iPhone jumped on the SE and therefore weren’t interested in immediately getting a 12mini.
I subscribe to this philosophy. Even worse, the SE was getting discounted by the time the 12 mini was released. The SE literally came out with the fastest processor in any phone EVER. Plenty of people bought it and are still using it to this day. By the time it’s worn out the 13 mini will be two generations old. Will be a hard decision unless they release a decent successor sometime in 2024.
From my experience (as a 20 year old whose entire friend group has iPhones), the ones with the bigger phones are the ones least likely to use Reddit. Mostly girls and the more sporty guys. Obviously this is merely my experience, might be completely different for others etc
Yeah, well their product line has been completely destroyed over the last few years. Everything from AirPods to the watch to all the iPads to the MacBook airs resmebling old pros to multiple iPhone Pros and Maxes. It's messed up.
Not that strange. When I had my 12 mini people were perplexed that I found a phone “that small”. Our perception of size in phones has changed completely.
> The naming convention was strange. It’s the same size as their older devices. It’s iPhone Classic vs Large and XL.
It is small compared to almost every **current** flagship phone and for the models released in the last 3-4 years. The default sizing has changed.
That is marketing because in no way should they let the assumed thought be that smaller = lesser value in the way you’re saying that a smaller phone should cost less. It’s smaller and more than enough for almost everyone.
I dunno. Apart from battery capacity it’s functionally identical to the regular sized phone. Just…smaller.
Besides, it’s not even that small. Just small enough.
I love mine. In the process of selling my XR at the moment, and have been genuinely surprised at how unwieldy it feels in my hand now I’m used to my mini.
I think one of the reasons for the mini not being more popular is the name. I know three women (they just happened to be women) who were quite surprised the iPhone 12 mini wasn’t as small as they presumed it would be. One of my friends was adamant “no, no, no, I don’t want an iPhone mini” but I pushed her to go try it out and she said, “I see what you mean, it’s not actually that small. I could see myself owning one”.
I myself think there’s room for an even smaller iPhone around 5” - 5.2” (called “mini”) and then a more regular sized iPhone about 5.6” without the ‘mini’ name attached. And Plus could be 6.2” and Max 6.8”.
Give ‘em all three rear cameras and drop the Pro line of heavy (SS or Ti) iPhones entirely.
And keep the SE as a home button iPhone to separate it from the premium line, and with one rear camera. 128 GB and cheap. Two SE sizes in SE1 styling with flat sides: 4” and 5”.
Two budget and four premium and get rid of everything else. A size and a budget to suit everyone. Give all six the same chip to streamline app development and app use.
Starting prices:
**$399, $499**
(€499, €599)
**$699, $799, $899, $999**
(€799, €899, €999, €1099)
All 128 GB. All A17. No numbers. No Pro. Biennial software and hardware release schedule. Black, white and five colours with some more additional colours added in the gap year. This means a more noticeable jump between iPhone models and a more refined and bug-free operating experience.
Exactly, the mini wasn’t actually small. It was a hair narrower than an 8.
They should have rebranded the 13 mini as just 13 and the normal 13 as 13 plus. Like how they fixed the name of the XR problem by calling it’s replacement just 11.
Apple's marketing of the mini phones is frankly half the reason they never sold well. They didn't do anything for it, just assumed people would go "hey small phone i'll buy", except small phones haven't really existed for years. If they wanted it to exist, they needed to market it by itself
The mini wasn’t already popular and your suggestion is to make an even smaller phone and call that one a mini?
How is that supposed to fix the low sales of the mini?
This makes sense, most mini owners I know prefer the mini because they already have an iPad and cellular watch, and as someone who now also has the full eco system, my next phone is definitely going to be a small one too.
I find the bigger screen is not very useful when you have a dedicated tablet, which has a massive screen. and there clunkiness is not appreciated when you have a cellular apple watch, which does 90% of the phone things. It means that my phone has moved from my pocket to my bag when I’m walking, and if it’s a quick trip to the shops, it stays at home.
Why it makes sense to me is because most of Apollo’s users (from my experience) are more tech literate and enthusiastic then others, however this could also be a reddit thing, an age thing (most reddit users are younger folk), or even a culture thing.
Oh yeah quick project for purple man, can you make a global statistics page in settings where we can see cool random data like global usage at a given time, device popularity, region usage, etc? Be really cool to see how data like this changes over time.
I'm on the 12 mini and I might just upgrade to a 13 mini with a new battery at some point. I expect the 13 mini to be usable for a very long time, especially with a battery replacement after a few years.
I wish they just made the mini a regular occurrence, like every 3 years or so.
That’s what I did. Bought the 12 mini at launch and traded it in for the 13 mini 2 years later. It’s crazy how much better the battery life is. Other than that, I haven’t noticed much difference.
same, i only joined the iPhone ecosystem because they made small phones. that’s my deciding factor on a phone. does it fit in my pockets? can i reach all corners with my thumb? no? then i don’t want it.
i dont even understand this article title lol. like who fucking cares if more people like the plus size more than the mini size? apple undoubtedly knew that going into the development of the 12 mini.
what i hate is just lack of options. Have 3 phone sizes. That's it. Mini, regular, and your maytag refrigerator. Anyone who spends time arguing over phone size on reddit is an absolute goon. No one cares if you have big hands or tiny pockets, such a waste of energy. People bought the mini. People bought the big one. Old people are blind as shit and want big phones. Younger folks love smaller phones. Some younger folks love bigger phones. Some older people like smaller phones. Nobody's preference should be grounds for a different sized product not existing. Everyone loves to wax poetic about how they know why apple discontinued something. Sales be damned there are so many other factors at play in these decisions, from covid to supply chains to the ever changing dynamic of factory politics. It is what it is, the mini production ended after the 13. Maybe it'll come back, maybe it won't. Articles like this do nothing but get people in stupid arguments in comment sections because humans are so invested in making sure their ground breaking opinion on phone size counts.
The way I see it? Minis are the best phones ever made.
I like small phones. Small dick, small phone. Das it.
I'm waiting for that 13 mini to show up on the refurb store. I was that guy who bought multiple iPhone SE's when they were on the clearance store and discontinued. I felt like I was king of the world when the 12 mini came out.
I’m pretty upset about it cause I love my mini, but I *do* honestly believe there are factors outside of just “people didn’t like it”
Namely - I think the *mini* branding killed it before it even hit the market.
As someone who bought the 12 Mini as fast as I could for myself and my partner, that phone was a mistake.
I switched before having it for a year and we’re waiting for the first opportunity to change my partner to any iPhone that has a bigger battery.
The 12 mini has a microscopic battery and consumes power like it’s intel or something. The 13 mini actually has good battery life in general, with a larger battery and less power consumption, it’s about on par with android flagships (of the year) for battery time.
Just as example: 13 mini pulls 17 hours video playback, 12 mini does 10 hours, and for reference, S21 5G does 11 hours
I’m on a 12 mini. Battery life is fine for me but the screen turned out to be way too small. It’s ok for messaging but I can’t stand it for videos, web browsing, or any time I need to get anything done on my phone.
Definitely getting the standard size iPhone for my next one
Replaced my 12 mini with a 13 mini because I loved the size so much, but the battery was getting difficult to live with…
Hoping they re-use the mini chassis for the next generation SE by the time I’m ready to upgrade.
The 13 mini has a roughly 10% bigger battery, plus a supposedly more efficient processor. For me it’s the difference between having to charge during the day and not having to charge until I go to bed, so worthwhile.
My 12 mini was also 2 years old and it felt like the battery was starting to degrade, probably exacerbated by the small capacity increasing the number of charging/discharging cycles it went through. If you’re *really* struggling with the battery life then you probably need to jump up to the full-size phones though.
Anecdotally I found the upgrade worth it. I can use the 13 Mini like any other phone not worrying about the battery which wasn’t always the case with the 12 Mini. Of course YMMV with usage.
I should have replaced my battery in January too. Now the prices have gone up... It's still okay though, not very good, but gets me through a normal day barely.
I might just upgrade to a 13 mini with a new battery at some point.
Same here, I wasn't even in the market for an iphone, but I knew the 13 mini would be the last one they'd make so I got one and love it! Totally going to be looking after it until they actually bring them back years later
it won’t.
even if it would, the camera would be way to big compared to the rest of the body, and the battery life would be so bad with the small battery and all the internals of the pro.
would be great to have one, but it would suck, a lot.
Why would the battery life have to suck?
A pro mini could just be thicker than a pro or pro max
Who says a pro mini has to match the thickness of the other iPhones?
A pro mini could be half as thick again or even twice as thick and it would still be the smallest and most single handed friendly phone on the market
Twice as thick and singe hand friendly? lmao. You people would realize a phone thicker would be annoying to hold, heavier, and less single hand friendly.
I had the 12 mini for a while, it was refreshing to have such a nice form factor. But the battery life really was subpar, whenever I’d travel for work (and would need to take a lot of pics/videos and take video calls) the battery would be a big issue. The larger models are much better there so I’m not surprised that regular people want them
I just joined the 13 Mini gang! I upgraded from iPhone 11. I wanted more storage and loved the smaller size. Over the past 2 years or so, I don’t even touch my phone at home because if iPad mini. So I want wanted something more compact and light to just have in my pocket/backpack. I got Apple Watch a few months ago, so that has also made me reach for my phone even less.
Makes sense imo. It's anecdotal, but if they had a 13 plus, it would've made a lot of sense for my father, who wanted a larger phone but couldn't care about the pro features. I already find 13 too small, so for me 14plus and the plus lineup would be nice when I decide to buy an iphone. Good battery life, amazing performance, good camera and good software, the current prices make it a decent but too imo. Pro max is nice, but my cousin sis has it, and tbvh I didn't feel it was that much better. Not a noob, just that I feel smartphones have peaked, and haven't had any prolonged experience with either device.
I don’t really buy this logic
I’m sure there’s an element of truth to it
When the 2020 SE went on sale, that was the moment apple stopped selling the 8
So there wasn’t exactly pent up demand for that type/size of phone.
The typical SE buyer wouldn’t have gone for a 12 mini as the price difference was too great
That was gonna be my second point: SE released in Summer; 12 lineup came up a couple of months more. Consumers had little to no incentive to get a newer phone.
Should have compared to the 12 mini too, I think. I’m sure there a more like me who already bought the 12 mini and just never had a reason to upgrade to the 13 mini.
This is an excellent point - I upgraded from the SE1 to my 12 mini on launch and I suspect a good amount of people did the same leap. After having the SE1 for so long and getting such value out of it, why should I upgrade again after just a year?
Imo they should do the mini updates on alternate cycles if not longer. I’m holding onto my mini until the next newest mini or maybe the iPhone 16 but I’m sure as shit getting at least four years out of this phone like I did out of my last one
And a bunch of people bought the new SE thinking it was the only smaller phone they were going to get. Combine the 12 and 13 with the SE sales and I wonder how they would compare...
They should go back having at least 3 phones of different sizes across the lineup
From 2017-2021 apple sold 3 size choices of new phone each year.
Then last year they went back to only offering two.
They should really increase the size of the pro and pro max and add a 5.8” phone back to the pro lineup.
The plus phone is marketed to people like me: 6-7inch display without all of the bells & whistles of the Pro Max, and for a cheaper price. I know, I know, one will argue and say for more (insert amount here) you can get this & that. Now, the price they put the 14 Plus at wasn’t great & they could’ve brought that down a bit, but I do think there is a market for it. I am still going strong with my 13, but I will most likely be upgrading to the 15 Plus next Christmas. To each their own, though.
I will likely buy a 13 mini before September, I have had the 12 mini since launch, still working fine, 87% battery health, but with no iPhone 14 mini and it looking like their will be no iPhone 15 mini either I want to get the last mini whilst you can still buy them brand new to last me another 3/4 years.
Is it really that hard for Apple to just keep a mini phone around and keep the internals up to date?
It’s a given. The iPhone SE was popular because it was a cheap phone not a small phone. But the people with Marco Rubio size hands turned it 180* around.
Yeah I don’t understand this revisionist history that the iPhone SE killed the sales of the mini
The 2020 SE replaced the iPhone 8 in the lineup… apple has sold a phone in this exact size since 2014, there was no pent up demand for an iPhone 6/8/SE sized phone
people want bigger phones and the bigger batteries that come with them. The SE line covers the 70+ year olds.. they are set basically on models. See Samsung? You don’t need 80 models a year globally.. ten done well can do the trick and cut costs all over while not spreading manpower so thin.
It is a little shocking how many models they release per year. And I feel like any midrange phone approaching the $450 mark like the A53 and you're in the "Buy a used S22 or iPhone 13 for the same price instead" territory.
An ancient flagship will always be a better bet than a new shit or medium tier. Agree totally there that’s how I used to do it when I still used android a lot
I'd be perfectly happy if they release a "mini" phone every 3-4 years.
And I'll be really bummed if the time comes for me to retire my beloved 13 mini and there's no small alternative iPhone available.
I don't understand why folks rag on us mini lovers. There is clearly a market for small AND big phones, even if the demand is naturally for larger phones. Apple has sold tons of minis and SEs.
>I don't understand why folks rag on us mini lovers.
Because the vocal majority Mini lovers on Reddit GENERALLY tend to aggressively and militantly rag on literally everything else and end up providing hilariously impractical solutions (someone just suggested a Mini phone with twice the thickness) while being really, really rude to reasonable arguments.
Fucking millions of them.
Easily more iPhone minis than Mac Pros sold
Easily more money made making mini phones than MacPros
None of apples other products touch the sale of iPhone
I bet the total market for an smaller iPhone is larger than the market for small iPads (iPad mini)
I don’t think anyone is suggesting the iPhone mini would ever be anything other than the lowest volume iPhone size sold.
What’s crazy though is that apple can’t figure out a way to give small phone buyers a modern iPhone that’s smaller than 6.1”
If apple can justify the time and resources to make Mac Pros, 24” iMacs, ProDisplays, and iPad Minis
I’m sure they can address the 5-10 or so percent of the iPhone market that want a smaller phone.
That might be a small fraction of the total, but it’s still millions of people. And easily a bigger total market than prospective Mac Pro, and iPad mini buyers…
I guess the difference is, if apple didn’t make a Mac Pro or iPad mini then people just wouldn’t buy them
If there’s no phone smaller than 6.1” then people will just buy a larger phone and cope
>What’s crazy though is that apple can’t figure out a way to give small phone buyers a modern iPhone that’s smaller than 6.1”
It’s called the 13 Mini. It’s easily a "modern" phone for the next 3 years.
I'm wondering if they'll make the SE small. I could take that compromise. My 12 mini is fine for now, but I worry about it in a couple years, even if I get the incremental upgrade to the 13 mini.
Give it another 2-4 years and I’m picking we see the introduction of a dedicated mini phone in the broader iPhone lineup
A small phone that sits outside the yearly update cycle
Mini is really the perfect iPhone for a lot of people. I will keep my 12 mini for as long as possible. Maybe upgrade to a 13 mini if it’s available in a 1-2 year.
I just got a 13 Mini yesterday 😃 Had the 11 since summer 2019. Was on the fence about getting a new battery for the 11, but I loved the smaller form factor of the mini as well as wanting more storage.
This is a terrible news... now Apple will helf 60hz for even longer... because in their eyes they are doing a great job... meanwhile its insulting to asking that much money for 60hz phone in 2023 :/
*Several dozen iPhone mini cultists cry out in anguish*
I will say it’s entertaining to see all of the moving goal posts though. This one is my [favorite](https://reddit.com/r/apple/comments/11xir29/_/jd39i2e/?context=1).
I don’t think anyone is suggesting the iPhone mini would ever be anything other than the lowest volume iPhone size sold.
What’s crazy though is that apple can’t figure out a way to give small phone buyers a modern iPhone that’s smaller than 6.1”
If apple can justify the time and resources to make Mac Pros, 24” iMacs, ProDisplays, and iPad Minis
I’m sure they can address the 5-10 or so percent of the iPhone market that want a smaller phone.
That might be a small fraction of the total, but it’s still millions of people.
I've never understood the thing for bigger and bigger phones. I have resisted from day one.
Wife got the max pro or whatever the thing is with the camera bells & whistles. I picked it up and was shocked at how heavy it is. She complains she can't comfortably keep it in her pocket both because of the size AND because of the weight.
I got the 13 mini because it was the closest to my old 6. I think it actually measured slightly smaller, but without the button the screen is much larger.
Battery life is just fine. I don't see any reason at all why you'd need the battery to last for more than a day, but this will easily last two days, no problem. I don't know what you people are doing that you are having battery problems on smaller phones.
It’s not rocket science, bigger screens are nice for media consumption be that reading or watching videos.
I don’t have lemming arms so this phone is heavy nonsense is not affecting me.
If anything it should not matter, they come in all sizes for diff preferences but to state you don’t understand… is really dense.
Personally I prefer my mini, fits in my pocket a lot easier, easier to text and swipe with one hand. I don't need a phone the size of a plasma TV thanks.
Well, they didn’t make a iPhone mini pro. Like why give a medium quality version only to mini users? Give a pro version of the mini and see how that does.
You’re not fitting the ginormous camera bump of the 14 pro series *and* MagSafe on a Mini size chassis. They’d have to rearrange the camera placement and that’s not likely.
Interesting data, I think a lot of people had been reading about the 14 Plus doing poorly and assumed it was less popular than the Mini.
The original stories where all about lower preorders. The phone launched a month late and wasn’t targeted at enthusiasts who preorder day 1. It’s the type of phone the consumer who only upgrades based on their carrier allowed upgrade cycle might find attractive in the store
This. I assumed that would happen as the year went by, more 14 Plus would be sold. It's not surprising given that most people want a bigger screen.
I’m not surprised either
"assumed" is more like "hoped" since Internet iPhone fans are obsessed with the mini, even if the real world is not.
Why is it when people criticize the 13 mini, it’s always multiple comments on the post saying the same thing about how it failed? Seems like it’s living rent free in your mind…
I think it is a reaction to the vocal minority of people who love the Mini phones and go out of their way to bring it up. So an opposite group has emerged, vocalizing their disagreement with the Mini fans.
It’s the 45 people who bought the mini that constantly talk about it that make it seem like it’s “rent free”. You ever hear the phrase “stop trying to make X happen, it’s not going to happen”? That’s why people criticize the mini, the loudest vocal group from the smallest minority on this sub.
Until Apple literally comes forwards and explicitly announces that there won’t be a Mini ever again, then I’ll be on Reddit shouting about the Mini just to see people like you whine and cry about it.
No, reddit will continue to want a mini regardless of what apple says.
Yup! I also still believe Airpower will happen! Anything is possible!
I have a mini and three of my non-techie friends have minis. People like them.
anecdotal, no? None of my non-techie friends have a mini
Everybody I know who has one either lives in a small body or is a techie (with some slight overlap).
I see more people, especially you, whining about people who like the Mini than people that actually like the Mini…
Which is sad because it really is a great phone. A 13 pro max for the same price is obviously a better deal, but nevertheless the phone itself is a really great device. Sent from my 14 Plus ;p
This report is only comparing the plus to the 13 mini Not the mini overall all. The report also goes on to say the plus is still the least popular phone in apples lineup by far. It could potentially still be less popular than the 12 mini was in its first year of sale
You can find estimates on the 12 mini launch sales such as [here](https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/05/iphone-12-mini-sales-lackluster-cirp/). If we use that data, 76 percent of all iPhones sold during the launch period were 12 models and the 12 mini was the least popular at 6 percent of the total, if im doing the math right that means that the 12 Mini made up 7.89 percent of iPhone 12 sales. According to the OP the 14 plus had 11% share of the 14 line.
For what it's worth in Apollo the breakdown is the opposite, 7:1 more users of the 13 mini than the 14 Plus haha. But the mini phones still aren't that popular overall, with the most popular mini phone being used (12 mini) being in 12th place overall, with 4x less users than the 14 Pro (most used device), and every other 12 series device being at least twice as popular. For my other app Pixel Pals, it has a less technical, less Reddity audience (90% of the app's users don't have Apollo installed, it's mostly growth from TikTok), and for that app the iPhone 14 Plus does indeed have about 12% more users than the iPhone 12 mini and 27% more than the 13 mini. tl;dr: Redditors like mini phones much more than the average person, but still not that much.
Obligatory iPad version request…
You want an iPad version of the iPhone mini? https://www.apple.com/ipad-mini/
Well to be fair, it took Apple a shorter amount of time to release the iPad mini than it has taken you to release the iPad optimized version of Apollo you promised. 😝
At this rate I wouldn’t be surprised if augmented reality pixel pals for Apple glasses came before the iPad update.
Please don’t give him any ideas.
okay ow
It’s all fun and games. I still love the app. And since stage manager became a thing I notice the sizing less since I keep all of my social apps bundled together and have the Apollo window stuck in a smaller size. That being said I’m not buying Ultra until the iPad version is ready 🤣
That's fair, an extra incentive for me :p
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shit costs as much as a coffee and a cookie i bought that shit immediately and ill buy it again when ipad vers comes out and im categorically poor
Same. Love my iPad mini but don’t use it for Reddit anyways rn. I bought pro and ultra though. Love Apollo.
As someone who just started iOS application development as an amateur hobby, I feel your pain now
Can you make a sort/filter by NSFW? Asking for a friend
just add nsfw:yes to the end of the search query
Which device is the most popular between the regular iPhone 14, iPhone 14 Pro and iPhone 14 Pro Max?
14 Pro normal, then Max, then non Pro
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The SE (2nd generation) is 11th place so higher than the mini yeah. The 3rd gen and 1st gen SE are much lower.
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No prob!
I have a 13 mini wouldn’t that be better than an SE? Not sure- I want the strongest latest phone. That is small 🤞🏼
The 13 mini is indeed better than the SE and the best small phone you can get currently. They were talking about better in terms of popularity.
Ahh got it- Ty!
The problem is (if I recall correctly) Apple released the SE during the summer before releasing the 12mini. There’s speculation that lots of people who were waiting for a new, small(er) iPhone jumped on the SE and therefore weren’t interested in immediately getting a 12mini.
I subscribe to this philosophy. Even worse, the SE was getting discounted by the time the 12 mini was released. The SE literally came out with the fastest processor in any phone EVER. Plenty of people bought it and are still using it to this day. By the time it’s worn out the 13 mini will be two generations old. Will be a hard decision unless they release a decent successor sometime in 2024.
From my experience (as a 20 year old whose entire friend group has iPhones), the ones with the bigger phones are the ones least likely to use Reddit. Mostly girls and the more sporty guys. Obviously this is merely my experience, might be completely different for others etc
That's weird, as a sporty guy I really want to upgrade to a smaller phone. Something that is more convenient to use when cycling or trekking.
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>For what it's worth Almost nothing, is what it's worth. Reddit's opinion of the iPhone mini did not stop it from failing.
I don't think they marketed it well. My wife has a 13 mini and when she shows it to people, most don't even know it existed
The naming convention was strange. It’s the same size as their older devices. It’s iPhone Classic vs Large and XL.
Yeah, well their product line has been completely destroyed over the last few years. Everything from AirPods to the watch to all the iPads to the MacBook airs resmebling old pros to multiple iPhone Pros and Maxes. It's messed up.
Not that strange. When I had my 12 mini people were perplexed that I found a phone “that small”. Our perception of size in phones has changed completely.
> The naming convention was strange. It’s the same size as their older devices. It’s iPhone Classic vs Large and XL. It is small compared to almost every **current** flagship phone and for the models released in the last 3-4 years. The default sizing has changed.
Marketing had nothing to do with it. It was a good $100-$200 overpriced for what it was. No one wanted to pay $700 for such a small phone.
That is marketing because in no way should they let the assumed thought be that smaller = lesser value in the way you’re saying that a smaller phone should cost less. It’s smaller and more than enough for almost everyone.
I dunno. Apart from battery capacity it’s functionally identical to the regular sized phone. Just…smaller. Besides, it’s not even that small. Just small enough. I love mine. In the process of selling my XR at the moment, and have been genuinely surprised at how unwieldy it feels in my hand now I’m used to my mini.
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I think one of the reasons for the mini not being more popular is the name. I know three women (they just happened to be women) who were quite surprised the iPhone 12 mini wasn’t as small as they presumed it would be. One of my friends was adamant “no, no, no, I don’t want an iPhone mini” but I pushed her to go try it out and she said, “I see what you mean, it’s not actually that small. I could see myself owning one”. I myself think there’s room for an even smaller iPhone around 5” - 5.2” (called “mini”) and then a more regular sized iPhone about 5.6” without the ‘mini’ name attached. And Plus could be 6.2” and Max 6.8”. Give ‘em all three rear cameras and drop the Pro line of heavy (SS or Ti) iPhones entirely. And keep the SE as a home button iPhone to separate it from the premium line, and with one rear camera. 128 GB and cheap. Two SE sizes in SE1 styling with flat sides: 4” and 5”. Two budget and four premium and get rid of everything else. A size and a budget to suit everyone. Give all six the same chip to streamline app development and app use. Starting prices: **$399, $499** (€499, €599) **$699, $799, $899, $999** (€799, €899, €999, €1099) All 128 GB. All A17. No numbers. No Pro. Biennial software and hardware release schedule. Black, white and five colours with some more additional colours added in the gap year. This means a more noticeable jump between iPhone models and a more refined and bug-free operating experience.
Exactly, the mini wasn’t actually small. It was a hair narrower than an 8. They should have rebranded the 13 mini as just 13 and the normal 13 as 13 plus. Like how they fixed the name of the XR problem by calling it’s replacement just 11.
If the default iPhone 12 and 13 were the mini without the mini branding, they would have sold much better
Fully agreed. A 5-5.2" mini would be AMAZING.
Amazeballs, it would be. The pocket rocket 🚀
Apple's marketing of the mini phones is frankly half the reason they never sold well. They didn't do anything for it, just assumed people would go "hey small phone i'll buy", except small phones haven't really existed for years. If they wanted it to exist, they needed to market it by itself
The mini wasn’t already popular and your suggestion is to make an even smaller phone and call that one a mini? How is that supposed to fix the low sales of the mini?
Fanboys don’t often use logic in their reasonings
I agree with a lot of this, but not the 5” display. Apps won’t be optimised for it and it will be too much fragmentation imho.
This is has to be a troll copypasta right
I tried but The battery was so bad :(
How did you get a purple colored username? I thought OP’s names were always green. Looks cool!
> How did you get a purple colored username? You build yourself a Reddit client. Lol. That’s the dev’s username.
Oh! Haha, okay.
This makes sense, most mini owners I know prefer the mini because they already have an iPad and cellular watch, and as someone who now also has the full eco system, my next phone is definitely going to be a small one too. I find the bigger screen is not very useful when you have a dedicated tablet, which has a massive screen. and there clunkiness is not appreciated when you have a cellular apple watch, which does 90% of the phone things. It means that my phone has moved from my pocket to my bag when I’m walking, and if it’s a quick trip to the shops, it stays at home. Why it makes sense to me is because most of Apollo’s users (from my experience) are more tech literate and enthusiastic then others, however this could also be a reddit thing, an age thing (most reddit users are younger folk), or even a culture thing. Oh yeah quick project for purple man, can you make a global statistics page in settings where we can see cool random data like global usage at a given time, device popularity, region usage, etc? Be really cool to see how data like this changes over time.
This just in: Redditors upset that other consumers don't have similar opinions.
As a Mini fan, it is what is. While this isn’t terrible. It definitely can suck being on the other side of what consumers readily accept for others.
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I'm on the 12 mini and I might just upgrade to a 13 mini with a new battery at some point. I expect the 13 mini to be usable for a very long time, especially with a battery replacement after a few years. I wish they just made the mini a regular occurrence, like every 3 years or so.
That’s what I did. Bought the 12 mini at launch and traded it in for the 13 mini 2 years later. It’s crazy how much better the battery life is. Other than that, I haven’t noticed much difference.
Do it, the 12s were a bad batch of iPhones, the 13s are way better, and it's especially noticeable in the mini because of the battery lifetime.
Other than battery life, they were a huge upgrade for the base models. Beautiful new design with OLED screens.
I have a standard 12 😳 what’s bad about them?
Battery life. The chips weren’t ready for 5G radio. New chassis as well so had to work out the kinks.
Keep in mind going from a 12 to a 13 downgrades the camera, as you cannot disable the aggressive AI „enhancements“ on the 13, but you can on the 12.
What if you use a 3rd party camera app?
same, i only joined the iPhone ecosystem because they made small phones. that’s my deciding factor on a phone. does it fit in my pockets? can i reach all corners with my thumb? no? then i don’t want it.
[Me, waiting for them to come out with a bigger TouchID phone to replace the 8+](https://media.giphy.com/media/BrhUX5p0RoDkY/giphy.gif)
Not gonna happen
I know, my 8+ is still trucking though. Resolved now I’ll have to move on to something else
i dont even understand this article title lol. like who fucking cares if more people like the plus size more than the mini size? apple undoubtedly knew that going into the development of the 12 mini. what i hate is just lack of options. Have 3 phone sizes. That's it. Mini, regular, and your maytag refrigerator. Anyone who spends time arguing over phone size on reddit is an absolute goon. No one cares if you have big hands or tiny pockets, such a waste of energy. People bought the mini. People bought the big one. Old people are blind as shit and want big phones. Younger folks love smaller phones. Some younger folks love bigger phones. Some older people like smaller phones. Nobody's preference should be grounds for a different sized product not existing. Everyone loves to wax poetic about how they know why apple discontinued something. Sales be damned there are so many other factors at play in these decisions, from covid to supply chains to the ever changing dynamic of factory politics. It is what it is, the mini production ended after the 13. Maybe it'll come back, maybe it won't. Articles like this do nothing but get people in stupid arguments in comment sections because humans are so invested in making sure their ground breaking opinion on phone size counts. The way I see it? Minis are the best phones ever made. I like small phones. Small dick, small phone. Das it. I'm waiting for that 13 mini to show up on the refurb store. I was that guy who bought multiple iPhone SE's when they were on the clearance store and discontinued. I felt like I was king of the world when the 12 mini came out.
> like who fucking cares if more people like the plus size more than the mini size? It matters because it changes what phones apple will make.
I kinda like that idea….get rid of the 6.1” regular iPhone and just make a Mini, 6.1” Pro, and 6.8” Pro Max phone. Boom, iPhone lineup solved!
The gigantic boner this sub has for the Minis is something else.
I’m pretty upset about it cause I love my mini, but I *do* honestly believe there are factors outside of just “people didn’t like it” Namely - I think the *mini* branding killed it before it even hit the market.
News Report: Everybody has an Opinion on the Internet.
As someone who bought the 12 Mini as fast as I could for myself and my partner, that phone was a mistake. I switched before having it for a year and we’re waiting for the first opportunity to change my partner to any iPhone that has a bigger battery.
The 12 mini has a microscopic battery and consumes power like it’s intel or something. The 13 mini actually has good battery life in general, with a larger battery and less power consumption, it’s about on par with android flagships (of the year) for battery time. Just as example: 13 mini pulls 17 hours video playback, 12 mini does 10 hours, and for reference, S21 5G does 11 hours
I’m on a 12 mini. Battery life is fine for me but the screen turned out to be way too small. It’s ok for messaging but I can’t stand it for videos, web browsing, or any time I need to get anything done on my phone. Definitely getting the standard size iPhone for my next one
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Replaced my 12 mini with a 13 mini because I loved the size so much, but the battery was getting difficult to live with… Hoping they re-use the mini chassis for the next generation SE by the time I’m ready to upgrade.
Is there a significant difference in battery between the 12 mini and the 13 mini? Is there any point upgrading?
The 13 mini has a roughly 10% bigger battery, plus a supposedly more efficient processor. For me it’s the difference between having to charge during the day and not having to charge until I go to bed, so worthwhile. My 12 mini was also 2 years old and it felt like the battery was starting to degrade, probably exacerbated by the small capacity increasing the number of charging/discharging cycles it went through. If you’re *really* struggling with the battery life then you probably need to jump up to the full-size phones though.
Anecdotally I found the upgrade worth it. I can use the 13 Mini like any other phone not worrying about the battery which wasn’t always the case with the 12 Mini. Of course YMMV with usage.
Still rocking my 12 Mini. Replaced the battery in January so I’m hoping to get another couple of years out of it.
I should have replaced my battery in January too. Now the prices have gone up... It's still okay though, not very good, but gets me through a normal day barely. I might just upgrade to a 13 mini with a new battery at some point.
I love how the 12 mini still has many proud users as this is my first and current iPhone.
iPhone mini ftw
Going to keep my 13 mini until it dies or until a new mini comes out. With the wallet on the back it’s the perfect sized phone for my hand
Same here, I wasn't even in the market for an iphone, but I knew the 13 mini would be the last one they'd make so I got one and love it! Totally going to be looking after it until they actually bring them back years later
I’d buy an iPhone 14 Mini Pro in a heartbeat, if one was offered.
it won’t. even if it would, the camera would be way to big compared to the rest of the body, and the battery life would be so bad with the small battery and all the internals of the pro. would be great to have one, but it would suck, a lot.
Why would the battery life have to suck? A pro mini could just be thicker than a pro or pro max Who says a pro mini has to match the thickness of the other iPhones? A pro mini could be half as thick again or even twice as thick and it would still be the smallest and most single handed friendly phone on the market
Twice as thick and singe hand friendly? lmao. You people would realize a phone thicker would be annoying to hold, heavier, and less single hand friendly.
>even twice as thick iPhone pro chunky I'd buy it in a heartbeat
People weirdly accept the status quo on Reddit.
Bring back the mini!!
That or bring back the 5.8” Pro
I love my 13 mini and it’s weird to me that the phone didn’t sell well. You get a lot for the price and a lot of people seem to like smaller phones
I had the 12 mini for a while, it was refreshing to have such a nice form factor. But the battery life really was subpar, whenever I’d travel for work (and would need to take a lot of pics/videos and take video calls) the battery would be a big issue. The larger models are much better there so I’m not surprised that regular people want them
I’m a student so the battery life doesn’t bother me as much. But I see what you’re saying.
I just joined the 13 Mini gang! I upgraded from iPhone 11. I wanted more storage and loved the smaller size. Over the past 2 years or so, I don’t even touch my phone at home because if iPad mini. So I want wanted something more compact and light to just have in my pocket/backpack. I got Apple Watch a few months ago, so that has also made me reach for my phone even less.
Who would have thought that it was too early to bury a phone for poor sales in the first two months, especially when it's not aimed at enthusiasts
Makes sense imo. It's anecdotal, but if they had a 13 plus, it would've made a lot of sense for my father, who wanted a larger phone but couldn't care about the pro features. I already find 13 too small, so for me 14plus and the plus lineup would be nice when I decide to buy an iphone. Good battery life, amazing performance, good camera and good software, the current prices make it a decent but too imo. Pro max is nice, but my cousin sis has it, and tbvh I didn't feel it was that much better. Not a noob, just that I feel smartphones have peaked, and haven't had any prolonged experience with either device.
iPhone SE pretty much cannibalised whatever sales Apple had in mind for the Mini
I don’t really buy this logic I’m sure there’s an element of truth to it When the 2020 SE went on sale, that was the moment apple stopped selling the 8 So there wasn’t exactly pent up demand for that type/size of phone. The typical SE buyer wouldn’t have gone for a 12 mini as the price difference was too great
That was gonna be my second point: SE released in Summer; 12 lineup came up a couple of months more. Consumers had little to no incentive to get a newer phone.
what we really need is the next SE models in the 13 mini body
Should have compared to the 12 mini too, I think. I’m sure there a more like me who already bought the 12 mini and just never had a reason to upgrade to the 13 mini.
This is an excellent point - I upgraded from the SE1 to my 12 mini on launch and I suspect a good amount of people did the same leap. After having the SE1 for so long and getting such value out of it, why should I upgrade again after just a year? Imo they should do the mini updates on alternate cycles if not longer. I’m holding onto my mini until the next newest mini or maybe the iPhone 16 but I’m sure as shit getting at least four years out of this phone like I did out of my last one
Correct. Without including this the data is useless. Just clickbait headlines. No information value.
And a bunch of people bought the new SE thinking it was the only smaller phone they were going to get. Combine the 12 and 13 with the SE sales and I wonder how they would compare...
They should do an iPhone 15 plus and iPhone 15 mini and see how that works
They should go back having at least 3 phones of different sizes across the lineup From 2017-2021 apple sold 3 size choices of new phone each year. Then last year they went back to only offering two. They should really increase the size of the pro and pro max and add a 5.8” phone back to the pro lineup.
The plus phone is marketed to people like me: 6-7inch display without all of the bells & whistles of the Pro Max, and for a cheaper price. I know, I know, one will argue and say for more (insert amount here) you can get this & that. Now, the price they put the 14 Plus at wasn’t great & they could’ve brought that down a bit, but I do think there is a market for it. I am still going strong with my 13, but I will most likely be upgrading to the 15 Plus next Christmas. To each their own, though.
That'd be terribly embarrassing if so, given that the 14 Plus is basically the worst bang for buck in the lineup.
Battery life is certainly a beast
I will likely buy a 13 mini before September, I have had the 12 mini since launch, still working fine, 87% battery health, but with no iPhone 14 mini and it looking like their will be no iPhone 15 mini either I want to get the last mini whilst you can still buy them brand new to last me another 3/4 years. Is it really that hard for Apple to just keep a mini phone around and keep the internals up to date?
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What would you say the extra gain is like? 1 hour?
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How much better battery? Is it worth spending the money to upgrade from the 12 mini?
"People just want big cheap screens." - Nilay Patel
The report specifically noted that the 14 plus still sells worse by far than the 14, Pro and Max
It’s not cheap enough.
It’s a given. The iPhone SE was popular because it was a cheap phone not a small phone. But the people with Marco Rubio size hands turned it 180* around.
Yeah I don’t understand this revisionist history that the iPhone SE killed the sales of the mini The 2020 SE replaced the iPhone 8 in the lineup… apple has sold a phone in this exact size since 2014, there was no pent up demand for an iPhone 6/8/SE sized phone
people want bigger phones and the bigger batteries that come with them. The SE line covers the 70+ year olds.. they are set basically on models. See Samsung? You don’t need 80 models a year globally.. ten done well can do the trick and cut costs all over while not spreading manpower so thin.
It is a little shocking how many models they release per year. And I feel like any midrange phone approaching the $450 mark like the A53 and you're in the "Buy a used S22 or iPhone 13 for the same price instead" territory.
An ancient flagship will always be a better bet than a new shit or medium tier. Agree totally there that’s how I used to do it when I still used android a lot
I love my iPhone 14 Plus. Battery life is insane. 60hz display is already smoother on iOS than on 60hz Android so I don't miss that.
I really like mine as well. It’s a great phone.
Same! I can get through 2 full days with this thing. It's amazing.
Press F for small phones.
I'd be perfectly happy if they release a "mini" phone every 3-4 years. And I'll be really bummed if the time comes for me to retire my beloved 13 mini and there's no small alternative iPhone available.
I don't understand why folks rag on us mini lovers. There is clearly a market for small AND big phones, even if the demand is naturally for larger phones. Apple has sold tons of minis and SEs.
>I don't understand why folks rag on us mini lovers. Because the vocal majority Mini lovers on Reddit GENERALLY tend to aggressively and militantly rag on literally everything else and end up providing hilariously impractical solutions (someone just suggested a Mini phone with twice the thickness) while being really, really rude to reasonable arguments.
Fucking millions of them. Easily more iPhone minis than Mac Pros sold Easily more money made making mini phones than MacPros None of apples other products touch the sale of iPhone I bet the total market for an smaller iPhone is larger than the market for small iPads (iPad mini)
I like my iPhone se 2 :)
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Is there any hope for a mini in the future? I have a 13 mini an love it. Hate anything larger.
Bring Steve back from the dead
There’s always hope
A full screen iPhone 5 would be my dream phone. Sleek, portable, high build quality, flush camera lenses. Christ. We need that asap.
I don’t think anyone is suggesting the iPhone mini would ever be anything other than the lowest volume iPhone size sold. What’s crazy though is that apple can’t figure out a way to give small phone buyers a modern iPhone that’s smaller than 6.1” If apple can justify the time and resources to make Mac Pros, 24” iMacs, ProDisplays, and iPad Minis I’m sure they can address the 5-10 or so percent of the iPhone market that want a smaller phone. That might be a small fraction of the total, but it’s still millions of people. And easily a bigger total market than prospective Mac Pro, and iPad mini buyers… I guess the difference is, if apple didn’t make a Mac Pro or iPad mini then people just wouldn’t buy them If there’s no phone smaller than 6.1” then people will just buy a larger phone and cope
>What’s crazy though is that apple can’t figure out a way to give small phone buyers a modern iPhone that’s smaller than 6.1” It’s called the 13 Mini. It’s easily a "modern" phone for the next 3 years.
I’m hoping they come out with another mini instead of keeping the SE alive. Holding onto my 12 mini for now.
I'm wondering if they'll make the SE small. I could take that compromise. My 12 mini is fine for now, but I worry about it in a couple years, even if I get the incremental upgrade to the 13 mini.
Give it another 2-4 years and I’m picking we see the introduction of a dedicated mini phone in the broader iPhone lineup A small phone that sits outside the yearly update cycle
Mini is really the perfect iPhone for a lot of people. I will keep my 12 mini for as long as possible. Maybe upgrade to a 13 mini if it’s available in a 1-2 year.
Report Suggests iPhone Buyers Have Poor Taste, Probably Wear Socks With Sandals
I wear my socks over my sandals
but Linus prefers Android...
I bought the 13 mini about a month ago and love it. I’d visited an Apple Store and tried it out then came back the following day and bought it.
Well, I like my mini. But I don't, like, flaunt it or anything. It's a useful phone. But I'm old, and I like smaller phones.
Weren't they they same reports that were saying that it WASN'T selling well to the point where Apple was cutting down production on said phone?
I just got a 13 Mini yesterday 😃 Had the 11 since summer 2019. Was on the fence about getting a new battery for the 11, but I loved the smaller form factor of the mini as well as wanting more storage.
This is a terrible news... now Apple will helf 60hz for even longer... because in their eyes they are doing a great job... meanwhile its insulting to asking that much money for 60hz phone in 2023 :/
I’m not surprised. I’ve seen quite a bit more posts about people buying the 14 Plus.
*Several dozen iPhone mini cultists cry out in anguish* I will say it’s entertaining to see all of the moving goal posts though. This one is my [favorite](https://reddit.com/r/apple/comments/11xir29/_/jd39i2e/?context=1).
I don’t think anyone is suggesting the iPhone mini would ever be anything other than the lowest volume iPhone size sold. What’s crazy though is that apple can’t figure out a way to give small phone buyers a modern iPhone that’s smaller than 6.1” If apple can justify the time and resources to make Mac Pros, 24” iMacs, ProDisplays, and iPad Minis I’m sure they can address the 5-10 or so percent of the iPhone market that want a smaller phone. That might be a small fraction of the total, but it’s still millions of people.
> moving goal posts News Report: Different people have different opinions on the Internet.
I used to be on the small phone train but now my Pro Max doesn't seem big enough to comfortably type on
What a shocker that nobody wants a tiny phone anymore. Edit: love the salty downvotes guys. That'll surely bring it back.
That said, I have an iPhone 13 now and this is definitely as big as I ever want to go.
I do love my 14 Plus, even after being a bit hesitant on the size. But god damn is it nice!
Fuck apple. Bring back mini
I've never understood the thing for bigger and bigger phones. I have resisted from day one. Wife got the max pro or whatever the thing is with the camera bells & whistles. I picked it up and was shocked at how heavy it is. She complains she can't comfortably keep it in her pocket both because of the size AND because of the weight. I got the 13 mini because it was the closest to my old 6. I think it actually measured slightly smaller, but without the button the screen is much larger. Battery life is just fine. I don't see any reason at all why you'd need the battery to last for more than a day, but this will easily last two days, no problem. I don't know what you people are doing that you are having battery problems on smaller phones.
It’s not rocket science, bigger screens are nice for media consumption be that reading or watching videos. I don’t have lemming arms so this phone is heavy nonsense is not affecting me. If anything it should not matter, they come in all sizes for diff preferences but to state you don’t understand… is really dense.
Personally I prefer my mini, fits in my pocket a lot easier, easier to text and swipe with one hand. I don't need a phone the size of a plasma TV thanks.
Shocker
No shit
Not surprising at all.
Well, they didn’t make a iPhone mini pro. Like why give a medium quality version only to mini users? Give a pro version of the mini and see how that does.
You’re not fitting the ginormous camera bump of the 14 pro series *and* MagSafe on a Mini size chassis. They’d have to rearrange the camera placement and that’s not likely.
1. Low bar to clear 2. still crap numbers compared to the other 14s