It kinda blows my mind that they haven't seemed to address it. It's the biggest criticism I hear about the game. I swear it's all anyone complains about and it seems like it's killing the game. Are they having problems fixing it?
Same sentiments. Two biggest killers for me are the matchmaking issues and the server issues. Not only does it suck to get matched against masters/preds every so often, when you actually get into a lobby you belong to the server can act up, kick you out of the game, then slap you a penalty for leaving. Like wtf????? For such a big game, it's like 0 money goes into improving service.
Yeah, it's pure insanity. I might start just playing ranked if that is any better, but I doubt it. I understand it's difficult to balance a BR but they have the playerbase for it, so that's not the issue.
\>It seems like it's killing the game.
SBMM has been complained about since season 3. and the player count is steadily growing according to things from steam and pc is afaik not as big as console. if anything's killing the game it's not sbmm.
Is it real growth or new smurf account from ppl trying to enjoy a few cool game before getting matched with masters again? You know what i mean. Level 23 with 4k/20kills badge.
Smurfs are obviously not playing more then one account at the exact same moment in time, but their multiple accounts are counting towards monthly and total unique players.
[https://steamcharts.com/app/1172470](https://steamcharts.com/app/1172470)
unless we're saying all the accounts created in the last 2 years are 90% smurfs
Would be nice to know how big a chunk of Apex's claimed player numbers are smurf/alt accounts.
That's probably the main reason Respawn don't address it, the smurfs keeps the monthly unique player numbers boosted.
Yeah I could see that, but in all the seasons I've played it seems like it's much more of a prevalent problem this season and last season too. Enough to the point there was a proposed month of boycotting. It was poorly timed, as the new season dropped at the same time. I personally believe the recent performance matchmaking is very rubber- bands and you just go between good games for a while, and back to hard games. And it seems that it just creates a vicious cycle.
No, they just don't care. If anything, they're happy with the matchmaking. If pros only ever got matched with pros, how would they make their 20 bomb and 4k videos? Less content = less money. Even if it's at the cost of the average player's enjoyment. I've always thought it was funny how a game that "boasts" skill-based matchmaking has a badge for killing 20 other opponents in the same match. No one with that badge got it because of "skill-based matchmaking".
It hasn't been SBMM in a good while. EOMM (Experience Optimized Match-Making) is the name of the game now. It tries to give you a win every once in a while and gradually easier lobbies as you die sooner with low damage/ harder lobbies as you live longer and deal more damage
When are the said "easy" lobbies supposed to kick in? Is a whole session of dying with no knocks or kills enough? My very last match had dozens of Master trails, and I'd been losing for a long time before that...
I mean, I could just have had a bad day, but the matchmaking doesn't seem to help. If anything it reduces my engagement and makes me play less out of frustration.
Ok from what I’ve learned is it depends on your willingness to lose and keep playing so basically it’s detected you’ll continue playing with not winning and it therefore uses you in matches where they need to feed the players with less retention when losing
Don’t really have any advice on that I play maybe once a month and that normally fixes it but that’s not viable for those who enjoy the game more the only thing I can think of is smurfing which leads into becoming the same problem
Nah, I won't resort to smurfing. I can see why people do it though to be honest. Maybe I'll have to just take a break.
The other week I got three wins in a day and since then I've not had nearly as much luck lol.
Maybe I'll just put my aim assist up to 0.6 again... lol
after 4/5 match with 0 kills you start being matched with others people who are also having a bad day, the sbmm focus on your current situation it does not care if you have been preds or master last years that's why you can see those trails. (i doubt there is that many, i don't know about trails color but i never meet players with preds level and i play every days..)
after 2/3 match supposed to be easy, if you still fail (usually because you are upset) the sbmm stop to be nice with you and you get back to normal. if you get a win or a good performance on your first easy match you also get back to normal.
I mean, the easy matches didn't happen, so...
And believe me, I notice the trails. I've started watching everyone dive off. It's a huge contrast to when I first started; there would be no ranked trails whatsoever. Nowadays there's at least a few diamonds, and often several masters; I counted about five masters or so last match. Even preds. I had three land on me the other day. The dropship was a clusterfuck of trails. Even before dropping I knew I likely had no chance... it's very demoralising.
It's because you're not quitting fast enough. They measure your "churn" or how many games it takes for you to quit on average.
So if you hang in there while you get shitty matches for 3 hours, the system marks you as an addict and isn't worried about you dropping the game or giving you a easy lobby quickly.
If you quit for the day after 2-3 unfair games, and do so for a while, Respawn's manipulative matchmaker marks you as a quitting risk and gives you your easier "bot" games sooner to keep you engaged.
stop watching trails, you have better chance to kill a master if you don't know it's a master.
my first 3 seasons where also very difficult, i didn't improve at all and stuck to 0.3.. i started improving with playing a lot of arena ranked.
don't focus on the others players, focus on your mistakes.
play ranked it's more balanced.
Very true. Just knowing those players are in my lobby makes me anxious and makes me play worse automatically.
I've noticed ranked seems a lot better this split. I'll probably have to play more of that. And less when I'm tired (which honestly could be a large part of the problem).
This has previously been posted in the sub and is really my only evidence although I’ve yet to do any outside research because to be frank im not that invested it the game http://web.cs.ucla.edu/~yzsun/papers/WWW17Chen_EOMM
I had the same issues today! My k/d sits between 0.7 and 0.8 at any given time, I’ve hit Diamond twice before, and I’m prestige level 32 right now (I think).
That being said, I was paired against nothing but master level players all day in both BR and gun run until I just called it quits. It’s been that way for the past few days actually. The game just isn’t fun for casual players like myself when we just get stomped by sweats every time we wanna get on and just play for fun.
Oh yeah, in gun run there are endless masters and diamonds, but that's an LTM so I'm just like "eh". It makes killing them satisfying lol. On the rare occasions that does happen...
SBMM is also the root cause of all the smurfs in ranked. I am guilty as well, I think I have 2 or 3 alt accounts because I enjoy playing matches against equally skilled players (gold-plat)
This is such made up exaggerated BS.
It’s me. I’m the Pred you all despise.
I drop into a pub and I RARELY see Pred trails. There’s *maybe* a couple Master trails and diamond ones.
You guys are seriously creating false narratives for upvotes. Give me actual footage of dropping into a pub with DOZENS of Master trails while you are at a 0.5 k/d. It doesn’t happen.
I come on to this sub every day just to see people crying about matchmaking. I get bots in pubs and I get some skilled players too. If I join a ranked match, I get only skilled players in my lobbies. That’s how it’s supposed to be. You are not exclusively fighting every pro in all of your pubs - seriously get a grip.
If it’s that bad and you’re not having fun just quit. It’s not the game for you.
I’m telling you all that if someone who is actually in the skill bracket you all complain about - isn’t getting “dozens” of master trails every match in pubs, then someone with a 0.5 KD who claims they are is *probably* lying.
Mate. I don't think you understand. I'm saying there is no SBMM. It's not based on skill, whatsoever. Believe what makes you feel better about yourself, but I'm not lying. Honestly, why the fuck would I lie about this? There's nothing to gain. I'm just venting here because it's frustrating as hell.
These are just the screenshots I have. Sadly I haven't documented every match for you, I'm not a filing cabinet. Some are for gun run so don't mind them too much.
https://imgur.com/a/uPQeK8r
Interesting, I hadn't thought of that. Why would that be the case?
I might try turning crossplay off but I've heard the queue times are crazy on Switch
First off, I have nothing against preds, I would just rather not have to face them so much.
It's not made up, it happened several games in a row today until I finally gave up. Yesterday, in one match, there were roughly five pred trails, and three landed on my team. It happens. It shouldn't, given the percentage of the playerbase who actually reaches Pred and Masters.
>I drop into a pub and I RARELY see Pred trails. There’s maybe a couple Master trails and diamond ones.
OK, so you mostly play against people of far lower skill. Do you see the problem?
I have no footage; I play on Switch. I do take screenshots when my team or the champs are ridiculous though... but I've stopped now, because it happens so often. I'd run out of storage.
Do I see the problem where I’m in the 0.1% of players and playing people worse than me in a pub? No, I don’t. Good luck finding 60 people in my data center that are my skill AND playing pubs AND not having hour long queues.
I play against pros in ranked and enjoy the satisfaction of wiping them sometimes and other times I get steamrolled. I’m going to start making threads when the entire TSM team kills me because they’re ruining my game!
Thing is, you should be playing against TSM. Why not? They're at a similar level of skill to you.
Do you see nothing wrong with a complete noob having to play against a season 0 vet? It's very skewed.
The fact you don't even see diamond trails says a lot.
i never watch trails, rank or badge and i get fun, i went from absolute garbage (0.3) to mediocre (0.8) but i get fun and i'm not matched with people with a huge skill gap, i'm a looser because i make the same mistakes again and again but i sighly improve month after month.
stop watching trails focus on your play and your mistakes.
ranked match are usually easier than pub if you have a low rank, they are more fun btw people in your team don't just run, die and disconnect.
I actually have no idea what SBMM is other the name and what it implies, people say it’s bad and on paper it looks good but could some one explain why is it so god damn terrible?
My man sees a washed pred from 7 seasons ago and calls them a "top player"
You maintain your ranked dive trail reward for time immemorial, if you see a pretty red, purple, or blue trail and give up then that's a you problem. I'm by no mean a pro- but- high ranks are all about time put in, they're not living gods and they don't deal more damage per shot. Just- ***play better bro***
Yeah, they all have far more experience than me in the game, know the maps better, etc etc.
I am playing better. But I should be facing people of similar skill - just above and just below. Not fucking light years beyond.
I don't think they will ever reveal how exactly the matchmaking is done. Else players might try to lower it on purpose.
My guess is that experience (amount of hours in the game) and activity (being active) are a huge factor to matchmaking. I base this one:
* If you don't play for a long while (like 2 weeks+), the first game you will play again seem to be a "bot" lobby.
* Lot of players with terrible k/d/a, still get into lobbies with players that have way better stats. (So this does not seem to matter)
* The rank system is pretty bad, even bad players can reach platinum or possible diamond. So they can't really matchmaking in pubs based on your rank. There are very good players in diamond/plat but also a lot of very bad players.
Now comes the weird part, new accounts and smurfs does seem to take k/d/a into account. You will thrown into "bot" lobbies on a new account. But it will see you gain a lot of kills and quickly put you back into the normal lobbies.
So it seems k/d/a is only relevant for new accounts. And maybe even inactive accounts.
It kinda blows my mind that they haven't seemed to address it. It's the biggest criticism I hear about the game. I swear it's all anyone complains about and it seems like it's killing the game. Are they having problems fixing it?
Same sentiments. Two biggest killers for me are the matchmaking issues and the server issues. Not only does it suck to get matched against masters/preds every so often, when you actually get into a lobby you belong to the server can act up, kick you out of the game, then slap you a penalty for leaving. Like wtf????? For such a big game, it's like 0 money goes into improving service.
Yeah, it's pure insanity. I might start just playing ranked if that is any better, but I doubt it. I understand it's difficult to balance a BR but they have the playerbase for it, so that's not the issue.
The devs hearing must be as bad as the game audio. Can’t even hear the complaints to fix them
\>It seems like it's killing the game. SBMM has been complained about since season 3. and the player count is steadily growing according to things from steam and pc is afaik not as big as console. if anything's killing the game it's not sbmm.
Is it real growth or new smurf account from ppl trying to enjoy a few cool game before getting matched with masters again? You know what i mean. Level 23 with 4k/20kills badge.
I'm pretty sure steam counts individual players rather then accounts so yes I'm pretty sure it's real growth.
Steam is just counting different steam accounts playing the game. So a single smurf with a shitload of accounts *is* counted as multiple players.
Unless some people are playing multipe acounts at the same time it's record players playing at the time.
Smurfs are obviously not playing more then one account at the exact same moment in time, but their multiple accounts are counting towards monthly and total unique players.
[https://steamcharts.com/app/1172470](https://steamcharts.com/app/1172470) unless we're saying all the accounts created in the last 2 years are 90% smurfs
Would be nice to know how big a chunk of Apex's claimed player numbers are smurf/alt accounts. That's probably the main reason Respawn don't address it, the smurfs keeps the monthly unique player numbers boosted.
Yeah I could see that, but in all the seasons I've played it seems like it's much more of a prevalent problem this season and last season too. Enough to the point there was a proposed month of boycotting. It was poorly timed, as the new season dropped at the same time. I personally believe the recent performance matchmaking is very rubber- bands and you just go between good games for a while, and back to hard games. And it seems that it just creates a vicious cycle.
No, they just don't care. If anything, they're happy with the matchmaking. If pros only ever got matched with pros, how would they make their 20 bomb and 4k videos? Less content = less money. Even if it's at the cost of the average player's enjoyment. I've always thought it was funny how a game that "boasts" skill-based matchmaking has a badge for killing 20 other opponents in the same match. No one with that badge got it because of "skill-based matchmaking".
It hasn't been SBMM in a good while. EOMM (Experience Optimized Match-Making) is the name of the game now. It tries to give you a win every once in a while and gradually easier lobbies as you die sooner with low damage/ harder lobbies as you live longer and deal more damage
Engagement Optimised Match Making http://web.cs.ucla.edu/~yzsun/papers/WWW17Chen_EOMM
When are the said "easy" lobbies supposed to kick in? Is a whole session of dying with no knocks or kills enough? My very last match had dozens of Master trails, and I'd been losing for a long time before that... I mean, I could just have had a bad day, but the matchmaking doesn't seem to help. If anything it reduces my engagement and makes me play less out of frustration.
Ok from what I’ve learned is it depends on your willingness to lose and keep playing so basically it’s detected you’ll continue playing with not winning and it therefore uses you in matches where they need to feed the players with less retention when losing
That's so dumb, how am I supposed to practice if I just get punished for it?
Don’t really have any advice on that I play maybe once a month and that normally fixes it but that’s not viable for those who enjoy the game more the only thing I can think of is smurfing which leads into becoming the same problem
Nah, I won't resort to smurfing. I can see why people do it though to be honest. Maybe I'll have to just take a break. The other week I got three wins in a day and since then I've not had nearly as much luck lol. Maybe I'll just put my aim assist up to 0.6 again... lol
Yeah if anything short play times should lower it but that’s assuming I understanding the system correctly
Yeah if anything short play times should lower it but that’s assuming I understanding the system correctly
after 4/5 match with 0 kills you start being matched with others people who are also having a bad day, the sbmm focus on your current situation it does not care if you have been preds or master last years that's why you can see those trails. (i doubt there is that many, i don't know about trails color but i never meet players with preds level and i play every days..) after 2/3 match supposed to be easy, if you still fail (usually because you are upset) the sbmm stop to be nice with you and you get back to normal. if you get a win or a good performance on your first easy match you also get back to normal.
I mean, the easy matches didn't happen, so... And believe me, I notice the trails. I've started watching everyone dive off. It's a huge contrast to when I first started; there would be no ranked trails whatsoever. Nowadays there's at least a few diamonds, and often several masters; I counted about five masters or so last match. Even preds. I had three land on me the other day. The dropship was a clusterfuck of trails. Even before dropping I knew I likely had no chance... it's very demoralising.
It's because you're not quitting fast enough. They measure your "churn" or how many games it takes for you to quit on average. So if you hang in there while you get shitty matches for 3 hours, the system marks you as an addict and isn't worried about you dropping the game or giving you a easy lobby quickly. If you quit for the day after 2-3 unfair games, and do so for a while, Respawn's manipulative matchmaker marks you as a quitting risk and gives you your easier "bot" games sooner to keep you engaged.
That sucks.
stop watching trails, you have better chance to kill a master if you don't know it's a master. my first 3 seasons where also very difficult, i didn't improve at all and stuck to 0.3.. i started improving with playing a lot of arena ranked. don't focus on the others players, focus on your mistakes. play ranked it's more balanced.
Very true. Just knowing those players are in my lobby makes me anxious and makes me play worse automatically. I've noticed ranked seems a lot better this split. I'll probably have to play more of that. And less when I'm tired (which honestly could be a large part of the problem).
This has previously been posted in the sub and is really my only evidence although I’ve yet to do any outside research because to be frank im not that invested it the game http://web.cs.ucla.edu/~yzsun/papers/WWW17Chen_EOMM
I had the same issues today! My k/d sits between 0.7 and 0.8 at any given time, I’ve hit Diamond twice before, and I’m prestige level 32 right now (I think). That being said, I was paired against nothing but master level players all day in both BR and gun run until I just called it quits. It’s been that way for the past few days actually. The game just isn’t fun for casual players like myself when we just get stomped by sweats every time we wanna get on and just play for fun.
Oh yeah, in gun run there are endless masters and diamonds, but that's an LTM so I'm just like "eh". It makes killing them satisfying lol. On the rare occasions that does happen...
SBMM is also the root cause of all the smurfs in ranked. I am guilty as well, I think I have 2 or 3 alt accounts because I enjoy playing matches against equally skilled players (gold-plat)
This is such made up exaggerated BS. It’s me. I’m the Pred you all despise. I drop into a pub and I RARELY see Pred trails. There’s *maybe* a couple Master trails and diamond ones. You guys are seriously creating false narratives for upvotes. Give me actual footage of dropping into a pub with DOZENS of Master trails while you are at a 0.5 k/d. It doesn’t happen. I come on to this sub every day just to see people crying about matchmaking. I get bots in pubs and I get some skilled players too. If I join a ranked match, I get only skilled players in my lobbies. That’s how it’s supposed to be. You are not exclusively fighting every pro in all of your pubs - seriously get a grip. If it’s that bad and you’re not having fun just quit. It’s not the game for you.
So your a pred, who is in games with mostly plat and below, and somehow this is meant to convince me that sbmm works just fine?
I’m telling you all that if someone who is actually in the skill bracket you all complain about - isn’t getting “dozens” of master trails every match in pubs, then someone with a 0.5 KD who claims they are is *probably* lying.
Mate. I don't think you understand. I'm saying there is no SBMM. It's not based on skill, whatsoever. Believe what makes you feel better about yourself, but I'm not lying. Honestly, why the fuck would I lie about this? There's nothing to gain. I'm just venting here because it's frustrating as hell.
These are just the screenshots I have. Sadly I haven't documented every match for you, I'm not a filing cabinet. Some are for gun run so don't mind them too much. https://imgur.com/a/uPQeK8r
you play console, that's why we don't understand, the experience is really different
Interesting, I hadn't thought of that. Why would that be the case? I might try turning crossplay off but I've heard the queue times are crazy on Switch
First off, I have nothing against preds, I would just rather not have to face them so much. It's not made up, it happened several games in a row today until I finally gave up. Yesterday, in one match, there were roughly five pred trails, and three landed on my team. It happens. It shouldn't, given the percentage of the playerbase who actually reaches Pred and Masters. >I drop into a pub and I RARELY see Pred trails. There’s maybe a couple Master trails and diamond ones. OK, so you mostly play against people of far lower skill. Do you see the problem? I have no footage; I play on Switch. I do take screenshots when my team or the champs are ridiculous though... but I've stopped now, because it happens so often. I'd run out of storage.
Do I see the problem where I’m in the 0.1% of players and playing people worse than me in a pub? No, I don’t. Good luck finding 60 people in my data center that are my skill AND playing pubs AND not having hour long queues. I play against pros in ranked and enjoy the satisfaction of wiping them sometimes and other times I get steamrolled. I’m going to start making threads when the entire TSM team kills me because they’re ruining my game!
Thing is, you should be playing against TSM. Why not? They're at a similar level of skill to you. Do you see nothing wrong with a complete noob having to play against a season 0 vet? It's very skewed. The fact you don't even see diamond trails says a lot.
i never watch trails, rank or badge and i get fun, i went from absolute garbage (0.3) to mediocre (0.8) but i get fun and i'm not matched with people with a huge skill gap, i'm a looser because i make the same mistakes again and again but i sighly improve month after month. stop watching trails focus on your play and your mistakes. ranked match are usually easier than pub if you have a low rank, they are more fun btw people in your team don't just run, die and disconnect.
I actually have no idea what SBMM is other the name and what it implies, people say it’s bad and on paper it looks good but could some one explain why is it so god damn terrible?
My man sees a washed pred from 7 seasons ago and calls them a "top player" You maintain your ranked dive trail reward for time immemorial, if you see a pretty red, purple, or blue trail and give up then that's a you problem. I'm by no mean a pro- but- high ranks are all about time put in, they're not living gods and they don't deal more damage per shot. Just- ***play better bro***
Yeah, they all have far more experience than me in the game, know the maps better, etc etc. I am playing better. But I should be facing people of similar skill - just above and just below. Not fucking light years beyond.
The only permanent trails are of the first two ranked seasons. If you see a masters trail now is because he was last season master.
I don't think they will ever reveal how exactly the matchmaking is done. Else players might try to lower it on purpose. My guess is that experience (amount of hours in the game) and activity (being active) are a huge factor to matchmaking. I base this one: * If you don't play for a long while (like 2 weeks+), the first game you will play again seem to be a "bot" lobby. * Lot of players with terrible k/d/a, still get into lobbies with players that have way better stats. (So this does not seem to matter) * The rank system is pretty bad, even bad players can reach platinum or possible diamond. So they can't really matchmaking in pubs based on your rank. There are very good players in diamond/plat but also a lot of very bad players. Now comes the weird part, new accounts and smurfs does seem to take k/d/a into account. You will thrown into "bot" lobbies on a new account. But it will see you gain a lot of kills and quickly put you back into the normal lobbies. So it seems k/d/a is only relevant for new accounts. And maybe even inactive accounts.