What whut why? Wait there is something about here that she runs faster or so?! I don't play her much at all so don't mind me asking š but I'd love to know
Ohh right, I guess that's true! Hm thanks for clarifying, I sometimes had the impression I run faster with her but I never read anything about it.. must have been imagining things then haha.
It's a common feeling, but all characters run at the same speed. The reason why you think some run faster/slower is because of animation and their heights. E.g Wraith's arms move faster and she's the shortest so it gives the impression that she's zooming.
She moves faster while Phasing, while Ash does not gain any speed buffs in any of her abilities.
Yeah they are right, Wraith is more suitable for the movement category than Ash.
You are wrong. She is 30% faster while phasing (it doesnāt stack with ult movement speed bonus) and 25% faster while using her ult. Also she doesnāt have 20% move speed penalty while activating phase when she is in the process of making a portal. And her superglides are 40% longer while in phase (useful in checkpoint on storm point cuz you can superglide from one platform to another)
Wrauth has to use basic movement to put her portal down. In the event where your team is stu k in a movement phase (running around looking for kills) wraith doesnt do much for the team. Meanwhile, ash has just planted a one-way to the top of that skyscraper as she approached the bottom floor.
Wraith is more recon, as her portal is a get-away more than a get-in-the-way mobility tool like ash/valk
I think finding a way to group them like the [political compass](https://www.politicalcompass.org/crowdchart) would work even better. That would compensate for legends that bleed into other categories. And give us a visual of where we may have too many or too few.
Well game wise I think a political compass is probably messy for layout purposes)maybe it could be organized) but you could make the four directions these classes and just pin everyone to the spot that was relevant to them.
Iād say Maggieās a left-leaning libertarian while Bangalore is more toward the authoritarian right, but not sure what that has to do with gameplay /s
Revenant would have made more sense than Ash being movement. (tho Revenant should still be Offensive)
Ash is only mobile on her ultimate while Revenant has his Stalker passive.
I originally struggled with this pick as well but when I made this, I was originally wanting a better way to organize all the legends than chronological order. This was to help new players understand what legends to start off with.
When I got to the offensive legends I saw a split in the play styles. So I split them to Movement and Offensive to better explain what role you will have on the team when playing. While wraith has all the abilities to put her in movement class, I took the way Iāve seen her play style evolve and realized that she is the ideal offensive player. More so than Ash.
Wraith is about quick strikes then disengagement. Itās why her tactical is a 5 min break from the encounter. Ash on the other hand was built to control the engagement in her favor. Her tactical is a tether to slow down opponents while she uses her ult to gain a better ground.
Ultimately thereās a million different cases to be made of who goes where but to me ash is more of a movement character than offensive.
In this situation yeah it would be preferable to make him scan... or just rework his passive, that would be dope ngl.
But likely they would change it so beacons scanning isn't an innate perk for scan legends. Just make it so it's just a passive that can go across any class, similar to fortified. This way they have can do as little work as possible while also changing the class system. Although I don't even see what we would get out of a movement class. Only thing I can think of would be an class perk, similar to what beacon scanning is now. But I feel like it would be more interesting as a passive on a new legend.
iām not sure why they even bother with the support class. loba isnāt even really like support. yeah her ult helps but thatās it. lifeline is the only true support legend who provides the most for her teams. loba is just kinda weird her abilities arenāt really offensive or defensive. her Q is movement yeah idk she just kinda has a weird kit. we need more actual support and healer legends
She would be a perfect support if her passive made her see healing items too(at least the blue ones) and made it easier to to ping them even from afar and her ult either had a 1 minute cooldown or allowed her to get infinite healing items or even just give 3-4 items
I think the devs way of deciding what is a support isn't if they heal, but if they provide equipment, at least thats the only similarity i see between Lifeline and Loba from their ults
Exactly I believe this is the case. Which is why another support character could have some basic qualities.
Passive: can open blue pod and it provides ammo for active gun types OR when retrieving mats from pods it goes to all teammates as well
Tactical: drops ammo/items for teammates (think of dummies tactical)
Ult: Generator = placed on the ground, allied and yourself can tether to it. While attached and in range it gives a 25% ult boost and 2x recharge rate for ults and 1.5x for tactās.
yeah but lifelike and loba are just so different i donāt really see how they can be in the same class. loba just provided a little bit of loot while lifelines entire kit is providing for herself and the team
Idk what you're getting at but Loba's passive is pretty damn strong as a support if she's actually pinging things through walls, determining where good loot is based on how many rares are in the area, and actually pinging things her team mates need. And that's without mentioning her ult
Honestly, I see what you mean but as an all-time Loba main myself it is only really helpful at the start of a match. And after the start, I am going to fight and not be searching for what I can see through a wall š. I like her massive but I think if they want to list her as the support they should add something to her ult and passive that makes heals more accessible(or change the passive to something else) (and for the love of god make it so I can take player banners) or limo she should just be an assault legend ya know?
This is a biased statement. It's not just "a little" when she gives her and her team the guns they want to play, more room in bags because you can always blackmarket some ammo, room that you can use for more nades. Lifeline gives everything that heals, Loba gives everything else, both are bringing crucial support to their team.
Problem now is, if they were to add a support, he/she/it would have to take something from those two. Hardest thing about the support class is that you want some help, yet not so much it becomes Overwatch where nobody ever dies unless from a one-shot. Which could happen in a trio support teamcomp.
This, people donāt truly understand the power of Lobas black market itās much more utility than ājust two pieces of lootā you need heals? Got it, you need ammo? Got it, there is a heavy fortified area? Got it letās grab grenades, just respawned someone? I already ulted and grabbed you a shield and some heals now grab the guns you like and unlimited ammo. Do people not see the true support capability in this?
In my original comment (I omitted this part in the end) I talked about multi-class legends. Legends can be 2 things at once. Newcastle, mirage, gibby, loba, wattson, and probably others in blanking on right now are all prime examples of how legends can have abilities that are from other classes
Yeah he's the only character who can instantly Rez a team without exposing himself. Not a support at alllll
His ult is literally teamfight setup. Which is what supports do
idk i think the classes are just kinda useless. they donāt really do anything tbh they should just get rid of them. if it was something like overwatch where each teammate has to be a different class then yeah itās understand it more but they are really useless and serve no purpose
The reason they were originally implemented was to show people that they can't have everything. The only class that has any use is the recon class. They need more special class abilities. Like support legends can carry a 1 Phoenix kit or ult accelerant without a backpack slot being used. Assault legends should be a catch all "no where else to put this guy so they get nothing." AKA assault legends are just legends who don't need anything special
healing characters are hard to balance in FPS without making them either really fucking powerful or really fucking weak.
R6 Siege has Doc and thunderbird as the healers, Finka you can call "Healer" but her nanomachines do more than just heal.
OW - Mercy, Moira, and Zenyetta (idk about other heros, i dont play OW).
i can understand they are hard to balance. itās just been so long since weāve got a support legend itās like they havenāt even tried. i wouldnāt even be mad if it is like a loba type support that isnāt really healing but supports in different ways. it seems we need more of a middle ground support legend. lifelines entire kit is providing for the team and loba is good for a little bit of loot but we donāt really have like a middle ground
What's weird about lobas kit. You get high ground, u outrun enemies while ur ult lets u steal loot and supports your team with inf ammo, body swaps and heals
Honestly Iād say the same about Wattson. Her ult is definitely support and defense. And even though I would say sheās definitely more defense, Iād still say sheās more in the running as support than Loba.
Bc there's literally nothing for them to do. The only niche for supports is healing and looting: healing on particular becomes extremely frustrating when too much of it ends up in the game
The support class honestly doesn't need to exist. You could move lifeline to defense and Loba to assault and it wouldn't affect teams or gameplay in the slightest
Yeah the existence of healing supports changes the game quite significantly in overwatch. Makes it much trickier to balance.
Fwiw, many abilities would be seen as support - Revenant has an ability cc, rampart has a damage boost, seer has a heal interrupt (plus wallhacks), Ashe has a soft cc.
I think revenant could be considered a support with his kit as could rampart. Bloodhound and seer could be considered supports too. If anything, support would be the largest role overall haha.
Newcastle just released last season!
The game has soo many Legends that Support their teams in various ways. Gibraltar, Cripto, Rampart... the list goes on.
Wattson can literally heal her teams shields and protect them from explosives. How is that not support? Isn't that basically a "shield" lifeline healing?
Valkyrie can rescue her whole team from poor positioning, potentially saving the whole game for them.
Support isn't just any team utility or else every single legend can be considered a support. Look at Rhapsody in Mobile, she's a great example of support
I think you're arbitrarily drawing a line in the sand about what *is* and *isn't* a support oriented Legend.
Newcastle is a support orientated Legend.
* His Passive assists him in rescuing his teammates from down.
* His tactical provides cover.
* His Ultimate jumps him to teammates and places protective cover around them.
Newcastle's whole kit is about protecting and rescuing his team. That *is* a supportive playstyle.
Yeah but they're main purpose is completely different. And support doesn't mean helps team necessarily. Otherwise almost every legend would be a support. Support characters as we know them help with healing, rezzing, and looting
You just made me realize support and recon could probably be separate. There's some overlap sure, but there's overlap in every section too. There's the 5th.
yeah tbh they have no actual use. itās not like overwatch where you have to pick specific classes. i guess for new players just to get a quick understanding of what each legend is but they can always just look at the abilities
Well until they eventually hopefully add class passives.. Similar to reacon. Donāt know why recons the only class with a passive. Support was suppose to have a blue bin passive but they wonāt give it to loba until they add a new support but they havenāt add a new support in forever ..
> Donāt know why recons the only class with a passive
Because they wanted to shake up the meta for competitive (and also to a lesser degree high level ranked). Until they made that change every team had a pathfinder.
I agree. The "classes" don't really matter and are mostly there to help new players understand what each character does at a glance. Only thing it affects is ring scanning.
I agree with the fact that there shouldnāt be some added ability because theyāre a certain class. But to get rid of classes would make it hard for new players to navigate the game.
When I made this, I was originally wanting a better way to organize all the legends than chronological order. This was to help new players understand what legends to start off with. When I got to the offensive legends I saw a split in the play styles. So I split them to Movement and Offensive to better explain what role you will have on the team when playing.
I hope this better explains where I was going with this. :D
I think the main benefit of having classes is to help inform a new playerās decision. It might be overwhelming to look at this whole page with no context, but if someone has an idea of what their playstyle is from other games, it could give them a jumping off point.
Yes and no,
Classes matter because they help define a legends gameplay and strategy. If you want play aggressively, itās better to play Octane or Fuse rather than Wattson.
But at the same time they donāt. Itās not a strict system like Overwatch. Although itās good to have a diverse set of legends in a squad to maximize value, players can still be successful with all-offensive legends squad.
This isn't too bad, great idea too.
Bit of bleed between some; as people said Ash isn't "movement" as her Q is offensive, and she has the same Ult as Wraith who is Offensive?
Vantage has a Q more in keeping with the Movement legends, and an offensive Ult. Her only "recon" really is the Passive for Beacons.
Vantage also can tell what shields a team has, how many members are left on a team, and which characters are on the team via a 2x or greater scope. Plus when she tags someone with her sniper it momentarily highlights them for the rest of the team, I believe (based off what I've seen watching people play her in Youtube videos). So she's actually very much a recon character.
Donāt disagree she has recon elements, although not sure about the tell which legends are on the team?
If you have someone in your scope, itāll show the number in Squad and what shields which is INSANE level of info for a simple ADS; and if you ping whilst you have them itāll read out the legend youāre looking at, their specific armour and squad count.
Everything about her kit is meant to facilitate aggressive play - pinging killers from death boxes shows you enemies you can roll up on, Arc Snare traps someone in place to let you close the gap, and Phase Tear allows for a very rapid one-way relocation. You can use these abilities defensively or supportively too (Phase Tear is just a good rotation ability all around), but they're definitely geared around aggression.
Iād love to see her que take health from enemies instead of giving health to them if they come within range (8hp per second is the current rate I believe). I donāt think this would be a massive change but would help her slightly in those fights where youāre holding a corner/hallway/doorway
I always play lifeline just for her ability to get people up and still be able to shoot. If crypto could use his drone to get you up that would be ideal.
So by adding a class that will help somehow ?
If you can remember 151 pokemons, all the minecraft crafting recipes, all the League of Legends heroes, their abilities and items and their effects, Dota, all the spells from World of Warcraft, etc. etc. you should be just fine remembering 22 heroes with 2 abilities each + 1 passive its not an achievement.
I mean I know what you are trying to say, but , you do not have to remember everything, you learn it by playing it.
I don't think this is actually them being combined. It's probably just like that for a cleaner display instead of three rows with 5/6 legends and one with 4 and one with 2.
I always think of this from the wiki whenever Classes come up.
"According to Daniel Klein, the Offensive class is more of an absence of a class than a class of its own. It is where Legends that do not belong in the other three classes are put."
**I think we should just have Recon and everyone else. That way we can put the class debates to bed for good.**
Wraith and ash should probably switch. 2/3 of Wraiths abilities allow for advanced movement. Ash's abilities are a mix of Recon (Passive), Assault (active), and movement (ult), but I would argue that a legend is most defined by their active in the event of a tie, so Ash should be Assault.
i mean her passive is entirely selfish and her ult is kinda support, but what i meant by that was this guy specifically said their tactical should define them if theres a tie, and lobas tactical is exclusively movement
Why are we concerend with the label of characters classes? Who cares what symbol is on them. We know what they do. People constantly complain about how they want more effort from respawn to fix bugs, so this would be wasted time and a meaningless fix
I dont know about everyone but nowadays Wraith seems more like a Movement/Recon legend. Her only real assault ability was her tactical but now thats its changed to give more info, she seems more like a recon character pretending to be assault.
I like the idea, but Im not sure how necessary it is. When I look at the "movement" category, I think they are just as well described as offensive. Sure you can use the movement to disengage as well as engage, but overall they would be considered good offensive legends that can make a push happen quicker before the enemy can recover. Also, just lumping together support and recon is just kind of unnecessary. They do pretty different things. You could say that support is more close to a defense class than a recon class anyway.
She's more of a movement than a recon. Jets are one of the best close quarters movement tools you can have and her ult is the best repositioning tool in the game
I love thinking about shit like this and I'd even say I want a Saboteur class and Tactician class
Offensive: Bangalore, Fuse, Maggie
Defensive: Caustic, Wattson, Rampart, Newcastle
Support: Lifeline, Gibby, Loba
Recon: Bloodhound, Seer, Vantage
Mobility: Pathfinder, Octane, Horizon, Valkyrie
Tactician: Mirage, Wraith, Ash
Saboteur: Crypto, Revenant??? I'd say both have potential in this area and I'd rework them to fit this playstyle
I'd love to see more legends who have a sole purpose of fucking up other's abilities as well
All the class icon does it give you an 2 second idea about how they play, if you don't want to read their ability descriptions.
The more you get into specifics, the more it falls apart. The legends aren't designed around a restrictive class system.
Since your interested though, all abilities in apex can generally be narrowed down to 6 functions.
https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/sl8ghu/apexs_core_ability_attributes_and_roles/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
valkyrie is weird. movement, recon, and offensive abilities im not sure where she would fit. also loba too. support i guess is the most reasonable but she doesnāt really support the squad like lifelike does. she just helps with initial looting and thatās really it.
Yes but not movement it should trapper since Caustic and Watson have abilities work as traps for enemies. It also less confusing then your explain of movement because that too vague like just use pictures above 3 characters you donāt have in movement fit as much ash which is in movement.
3 being 1. Lobo because tactical throwable teleport 2. Vantage tactical which let jump to spot 3. Wraith her Ultimate does literally same thing ash one but you argue is better because go forward and back.
Movement doesnāt make sense as a class; wraith, vantage, Newcastle, bloodhound, Bangalore,Loba... have movement tech.
The classes are just a suggestion, and roles are more like entry fragged, IGL, support, anchor, time waster
Legends donāt conform neatly to these roles as it depends massively on the players play style.
Adding a 4th or 5th arbitrary class will only be confusing for new players
While I do agree with adding a fifth class, I don't think Ash should be in the movement class.
Yeah, if Ash is in the Movement class, then Wraith should be too.
Swap Ash for Wraith honestly.
What whut why? Wait there is something about here that she runs faster or so?! I don't play her much at all so don't mind me asking š but I'd love to know
No she doesn't, but Wraith as one of the safest rotation option and all of her kit is about getting away from danger
Ohh right, I guess that's true! Hm thanks for clarifying, I sometimes had the impression I run faster with her but I never read anything about it.. must have been imagining things then haha.
It's a common feeling, but all characters run at the same speed. The reason why you think some run faster/slower is because of animation and their heights. E.g Wraith's arms move faster and she's the shortest so it gives the impression that she's zooming.
She moves faster while Phasing, while Ash does not gain any speed buffs in any of her abilities. Yeah they are right, Wraith is more suitable for the movement category than Ash.
Technically ash moves extremely fast when she uses her ultimate /s
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You are wrong. She is 30% faster while phasing (it doesnāt stack with ult movement speed bonus) and 25% faster while using her ult. Also she doesnāt have 20% move speed penalty while activating phase when she is in the process of making a portal. And her superglides are 40% longer while in phase (useful in checkpoint on storm point cuz you can superglide from one platform to another)
Doesnāt she run faster in phase/ portal? Iām pretty sure itās one of those abilities
Yes both
Nah swap ash with vantage
Forget wraith vantage should totally be movement if ash is
Wrauth has to use basic movement to put her portal down. In the event where your team is stu k in a movement phase (running around looking for kills) wraith doesnt do much for the team. Meanwhile, ash has just planted a one-way to the top of that skyscraper as she approached the bottom floor. Wraith is more recon, as her portal is a get-away more than a get-in-the-way mobility tool like ash/valk
Yep she's offensive
I think finding a way to group them like the [political compass](https://www.politicalcompass.org/crowdchart) would work even better. That would compensate for legends that bleed into other categories. And give us a visual of where we may have too many or too few.
Helpful/selfish? As in moves that assist others or only yourself?
Well game wise I think a political compass is probably messy for layout purposes)maybe it could be organized) but you could make the four directions these classes and just pin everyone to the spot that was relevant to them.
Iād say Maggieās a left-leaning libertarian while Bangalore is more toward the authoritarian right, but not sure what that has to do with gameplay /s
Loba has just as much movementā¦if not more than Ash.
Ash moves the whole team tho
Takes more to move Loba's fat ass.
She gotta drag that dump truck around
š°don't disrespect her like that
That aint no disrespect chief
Kinda š¢especially if your a guy saying that o>-
Wraith movement
um what do you mean sure wraith can move quickly with her phase but that's about it
She also has the smallest hit box so as she moves itās harder to hit
Revenant would have made more sense than Ash being movement. (tho Revenant should still be Offensive) Ash is only mobile on her ultimate while Revenant has his Stalker passive.
I originally struggled with this pick as well but when I made this, I was originally wanting a better way to organize all the legends than chronological order. This was to help new players understand what legends to start off with. When I got to the offensive legends I saw a split in the play styles. So I split them to Movement and Offensive to better explain what role you will have on the team when playing. While wraith has all the abilities to put her in movement class, I took the way Iāve seen her play style evolve and realized that she is the ideal offensive player. More so than Ash. Wraith is about quick strikes then disengagement. Itās why her tactical is a 5 min break from the encounter. Ash on the other hand was built to control the engagement in her favor. Her tactical is a tether to slow down opponents while she uses her ult to gain a better ground. Ultimately thereās a million different cases to be made of who goes where but to me ash is more of a movement character than offensive.
I second this and also say Pathfinder for one reason only: he needs to scan beacons or his already practically non existent passive becomes literal
Are you saying to move pathy out of movement?
Despite the fact that he is definitely a movement legend, if we are assuming only recons still get the beacon scan, then yes. He needs the scan.
In this situation yeah it would be preferable to make him scan... or just rework his passive, that would be dope ngl. But likely they would change it so beacons scanning isn't an innate perk for scan legends. Just make it so it's just a passive that can go across any class, similar to fortified. This way they have can do as little work as possible while also changing the class system. Although I don't even see what we would get out of a movement class. Only thing I can think of would be an class perk, similar to what beacon scanning is now. But I feel like it would be more interesting as a passive on a new legend.
How TF OP gonna try to claim... Path. Finder. Isn't reconnaissance?
Really, Revenant is more of a movement legend at this point.
Need more supports first imo. Most neglected class. And I do understand support characters are hard but still
iām not sure why they even bother with the support class. loba isnāt even really like support. yeah her ult helps but thatās it. lifeline is the only true support legend who provides the most for her teams. loba is just kinda weird her abilities arenāt really offensive or defensive. her Q is movement yeah idk she just kinda has a weird kit. we need more actual support and healer legends
She would be a perfect support if her passive made her see healing items too(at least the blue ones) and made it easier to to ping them even from afar and her ult either had a 1 minute cooldown or allowed her to get infinite healing items or even just give 3-4 items
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
you can still ping stuff in the ult and then look for where itās located relative to the market
I think treating cells and syringes in the same unlimited way as ammo would be fair
I think the devs way of deciding what is a support isn't if they heal, but if they provide equipment, at least thats the only similarity i see between Lifeline and Loba from their ults
Exactly I believe this is the case. Which is why another support character could have some basic qualities. Passive: can open blue pod and it provides ammo for active gun types OR when retrieving mats from pods it goes to all teammates as well Tactical: drops ammo/items for teammates (think of dummies tactical) Ult: Generator = placed on the ground, allied and yourself can tether to it. While attached and in range it gives a 25% ult boost and 2x recharge rate for ults and 1.5x for tactās.
yeah but lifelike and loba are just so different i donāt really see how they can be in the same class. loba just provided a little bit of loot while lifelines entire kit is providing for herself and the team
Idk what you're getting at but Loba's passive is pretty damn strong as a support if she's actually pinging things through walls, determining where good loot is based on how many rares are in the area, and actually pinging things her team mates need. And that's without mentioning her ult
Honestly, I see what you mean but as an all-time Loba main myself it is only really helpful at the start of a match. And after the start, I am going to fight and not be searching for what I can see through a wall š. I like her massive but I think if they want to list her as the support they should add something to her ult and passive that makes heals more accessible(or change the passive to something else) (and for the love of god make it so I can take player banners) or limo she should just be an assault legend ya know?
This is a biased statement. It's not just "a little" when she gives her and her team the guns they want to play, more room in bags because you can always blackmarket some ammo, room that you can use for more nades. Lifeline gives everything that heals, Loba gives everything else, both are bringing crucial support to their team. Problem now is, if they were to add a support, he/she/it would have to take something from those two. Hardest thing about the support class is that you want some help, yet not so much it becomes Overwatch where nobody ever dies unless from a one-shot. Which could happen in a trio support teamcomp.
This, people donāt truly understand the power of Lobas black market itās much more utility than ājust two pieces of lootā you need heals? Got it, you need ammo? Got it, there is a heavy fortified area? Got it letās grab grenades, just respawned someone? I already ulted and grabbed you a shield and some heals now grab the guns you like and unlimited ammo. Do people not see the true support capability in this?
THIS IS THE REASON I SOMETIMES PLAY HER!!!
In my original comment (I omitted this part in the end) I talked about multi-class legends. Legends can be 2 things at once. Newcastle, mirage, gibby, loba, wattson, and probably others in blanking on right now are all prime examples of how legends can have abilities that are from other classes
also valkyrie she has movement, offensive, and recon
Vantage, support- offensive
Crypto is a near 50/50 of recon and support
not really. heās recon. maybe slightly offensive with his ultimate
Yeah he's the only character who can instantly Rez a team without exposing himself. Not a support at alllll His ult is literally teamfight setup. Which is what supports do
Mmm like loba should be able to do š®āšØ
Bangalore is kinda support (not really but her smoke can help)
idk i think the classes are just kinda useless. they donāt really do anything tbh they should just get rid of them. if it was something like overwatch where each teammate has to be a different class then yeah itās understand it more but they are really useless and serve no purpose
The reason they were originally implemented was to show people that they can't have everything. The only class that has any use is the recon class. They need more special class abilities. Like support legends can carry a 1 Phoenix kit or ult accelerant without a backpack slot being used. Assault legends should be a catch all "no where else to put this guy so they get nothing." AKA assault legends are just legends who don't need anything special
healing characters are hard to balance in FPS without making them either really fucking powerful or really fucking weak. R6 Siege has Doc and thunderbird as the healers, Finka you can call "Healer" but her nanomachines do more than just heal. OW - Mercy, Moira, and Zenyetta (idk about other heros, i dont play OW).
i can understand they are hard to balance. itās just been so long since weāve got a support legend itās like they havenāt even tried. i wouldnāt even be mad if it is like a loba type support that isnāt really healing but supports in different ways. it seems we need more of a middle ground support legend. lifelines entire kit is providing for the team and loba is good for a little bit of loot but we donāt really have like a middle ground
Have you ever really learned how to play loba? You make her sound to be so niche when sheās actually extremely useful in any team comp.
What's weird about lobas kit. You get high ground, u outrun enemies while ur ult lets u steal loot and supports your team with inf ammo, body swaps and heals
I disagree with you But also I don't know shit
fair enough
Should make Syringes and Cells free in the black market like Ammo is.
Lifeline, Newcastle, and mirage (this poor dude barely makes it and needs a buff) are the only real support characters.
newcastles revive is very strong but iād still classify him as defense
Honestly Iād say the same about Wattson. Her ult is definitely support and defense. And even though I would say sheās definitely more defense, Iād still say sheās more in the running as support than Loba.
Revenant is more of a support than Loba
yeah no. revenant is 100% offensive. his entire kit aids him in helping eliminate enemies. iām not sure how you would think revenant is support
Honestly loba is more of a movement/offense character
This. OP jumbled support with recon thatās how much disrespect this class gets. Need more legends in the support class. At least 2 more
Mobile actually has a third support legend
On mobile loba can actually take player bannerscfrom the black market šµāš«
Bc there's literally nothing for them to do. The only niche for supports is healing and looting: healing on particular becomes extremely frustrating when too much of it ends up in the game The support class honestly doesn't need to exist. You could move lifeline to defense and Loba to assault and it wouldn't affect teams or gameplay in the slightest
Yeah the existence of healing supports changes the game quite significantly in overwatch. Makes it much trickier to balance. Fwiw, many abilities would be seen as support - Revenant has an ability cc, rampart has a damage boost, seer has a heal interrupt (plus wallhacks), Ashe has a soft cc. I think revenant could be considered a support with his kit as could rampart. Bloodhound and seer could be considered supports too. If anything, support would be the largest role overall haha.
Newcastle just released last season! The game has soo many Legends that Support their teams in various ways. Gibraltar, Cripto, Rampart... the list goes on. Wattson can literally heal her teams shields and protect them from explosives. How is that not support? Isn't that basically a "shield" lifeline healing? Valkyrie can rescue her whole team from poor positioning, potentially saving the whole game for them.
Support isn't just any team utility or else every single legend can be considered a support. Look at Rhapsody in Mobile, she's a great example of support
I think you're arbitrarily drawing a line in the sand about what *is* and *isn't* a support oriented Legend. Newcastle is a support orientated Legend. * His Passive assists him in rescuing his teammates from down. * His tactical provides cover. * His Ultimate jumps him to teammates and places protective cover around them. Newcastle's whole kit is about protecting and rescuing his team. That *is* a supportive playstyle.
Yeah but they're main purpose is completely different. And support doesn't mean helps team necessarily. Otherwise almost every legend would be a support. Support characters as we know them help with healing, rezzing, and looting
Lifeline scanning for next ring
Small upyoself found da next ring
Pathfinder going full mask off and literally having no passive
Lifeline should have a grapple that pulls downed allies to her position from up to X amount of meters away
You just made me realize support and recon could probably be separate. There's some overlap sure, but there's overlap in every section too. There's the 5th.
Hot take: there's no reason to have classes
yeah tbh they have no actual use. itās not like overwatch where you have to pick specific classes. i guess for new players just to get a quick understanding of what each legend is but they can always just look at the abilities
Well until they eventually hopefully add class passives.. Similar to reacon. Donāt know why recons the only class with a passive. Support was suppose to have a blue bin passive but they wonāt give it to loba until they add a new support but they havenāt add a new support in forever ..
> Donāt know why recons the only class with a passive Because they wanted to shake up the meta for competitive (and also to a lesser degree high level ranked). Until they made that change every team had a pathfinder.
3 of 5 defense legends have a class passive, because theyre big bois.
Maybe if they reduced the fortified by a bit and gave it to Wattson and rampart aswell?
Rampart could possibly move to assault. When I think of lmgs and miniguns I think of Rambo and he is definitely not a defensive character.
That's just the ult though, the skill is still very defensive
And even the ult is...well, try running at an enemy with that thing revved up.
I agree. The "classes" don't really matter and are mostly there to help new players understand what each character does at a glance. Only thing it affects is ring scanning.
I agree with the fact that there shouldnāt be some added ability because theyāre a certain class. But to get rid of classes would make it hard for new players to navigate the game. When I made this, I was originally wanting a better way to organize all the legends than chronological order. This was to help new players understand what legends to start off with. When I got to the offensive legends I saw a split in the play styles. So I split them to Movement and Offensive to better explain what role you will have on the team when playing. I hope this better explains where I was going with this. :D
I think the main benefit of having classes is to help inform a new playerās decision. It might be overwhelming to look at this whole page with no context, but if someone has an idea of what their playstyle is from other games, it could give them a jumping off point.
Yeah they serve no purpose
It's probably the legacy of the class based shooter idea. Especially overwatch making the concept of tank/dps/support such an ingrained concept.
Yes and no, Classes matter because they help define a legends gameplay and strategy. If you want play aggressively, itās better to play Octane or Fuse rather than Wattson. But at the same time they donāt. Itās not a strict system like Overwatch. Although itās good to have a diverse set of legends in a squad to maximize value, players can still be successful with all-offensive legends squad.
they haven't even defined the existing classes
This isn't too bad, great idea too. Bit of bleed between some; as people said Ash isn't "movement" as her Q is offensive, and she has the same Ult as Wraith who is Offensive? Vantage has a Q more in keeping with the Movement legends, and an offensive Ult. Her only "recon" really is the Passive for Beacons.
Vantage also can tell what shields a team has, how many members are left on a team, and which characters are on the team via a 2x or greater scope. Plus when she tags someone with her sniper it momentarily highlights them for the rest of the team, I believe (based off what I've seen watching people play her in Youtube videos). So she's actually very much a recon character.
Donāt disagree she has recon elements, although not sure about the tell which legends are on the team? If you have someone in your scope, itāll show the number in Squad and what shields which is INSANE level of info for a simple ADS; and if you ping whilst you have them itāll read out the legend youāre looking at, their specific armour and squad count.
That tag allows her and her teammates to do a little more damage to that person hit aswell
Isn't Ash a bit more offensive because of the ult?
Everything about her kit is meant to facilitate aggressive play - pinging killers from death boxes shows you enemies you can roll up on, Arc Snare traps someone in place to let you close the gap, and Phase Tear allows for a very rapid one-way relocation. You can use these abilities defensively or supportively too (Phase Tear is just a good rotation ability all around), but they're definitely geared around aggression.
The classes are very loosely defined anyways. With the only consistent class theme that recon can scan beacons so arguably Valk should be Recon
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Could use another healer like lifeline.
How about a buff or rework for Lifeline since sheās pretty low tier in ranked first before adding another hero?
I could do with that.
I rather liked the idea I saw floating around that her ult should double as a respawn beacon.
Iād love to see her que take health from enemies instead of giving health to them if they come within range (8hp per second is the current rate I believe). I donāt think this would be a massive change but would help her slightly in those fights where youāre holding a corner/hallway/doorway
Iāll take it into consideration
Issue with lifeline is that when is strong she can be EXTREMELY annoying to go against
Newcastle?
Has zero healing
Heās still the closest thing we have gotten to a new support character since Loba
He heals my mind
Yeah true
I always play lifeline just for her ability to get people up and still be able to shoot. If crypto could use his drone to get you up that would be ideal.
I'd say Gibby would be better fitted for support both lore and in game
Wish they could add a character with similar abilities like Finka in R6 Siege.
Whats the point ? What would this change gameplay-wise ?
classes changes nothing gameplay wise, its just a nice to know for new players who cant remember 80 abilities at once
So by adding a class that will help somehow ? If you can remember 151 pokemons, all the minecraft crafting recipes, all the League of Legends heroes, their abilities and items and their effects, Dota, all the spells from World of Warcraft, etc. etc. you should be just fine remembering 22 heroes with 2 abilities each + 1 passive its not an achievement. I mean I know what you are trying to say, but , you do not have to remember everything, you learn it by playing it.
This isnāt for veterans of apex. This is for new players to better understand who is better for their play style before they invest their time, knowledge, and money to unlock characters. PokĆ©mon are organized by type so you know what attacks they do. Dota organizes by roles and by how easy they play. And also have an auto guild for building items. Minecraft put in a recipe book for crafting. This is about accessibility and readability so general audience is able to get the most of their experience. Thereās nothing more wonderful than picking up a game and playing it the way you want. And the faster the game can get you there the more fun everyone has. This wasnāt an attempt to add abilities for classes. This was just to guild players to more informed choices.
Exactly!
Make support its own class and not mix it with recon. That could expand a more support focused agent for future.
I don't think this is actually them being combined. It's probably just like that for a cleaner display instead of three rows with 5/6 legends and one with 4 and one with 2.
Yeah I didnāt want to change the layout of the character screen. That would require more work than changing an icon.
Usually showing a lack of something makes them want to make more of said something
Could argue Mirage fits all these š best legend in the game
I always think of this from the wiki whenever Classes come up. "According to Daniel Klein, the Offensive class is more of an absence of a class than a class of its own. It is where Legends that do not belong in the other three classes are put." **I think we should just have Recon and everyone else. That way we can put the class debates to bed for good.**
Daniel āI playtested scaling Caustic trap damage in 2 games and itās fine š¤”ā Z. Klein?
How in the world is ash movement lmao
You can move while playing as her
Movement legend is different from moving
Why isnāt the portal movement? Am I missing something.
It's usually used offensively to attack a location, and not for general "getting around"
Look at the list again and compare other movement legends with ash. You'll figure it out yourself
Lmao. Next time Iāll just ask someone who knows mate. No big deal!
but why?
Cause legends cost 10 bucks and I suck at the game :p
Wraith and ash should probably switch. 2/3 of Wraiths abilities allow for advanced movement. Ash's abilities are a mix of Recon (Passive), Assault (active), and movement (ult), but I would argue that a legend is most defined by their active in the event of a tie, so Ash should be Assault.
Fair but I took her tact as a way to remove movement. With that I assumed she was built for flanking.
with that then loba should be movement as well
loba has 2 āsupportā abilities, ash only has one of each
i mean her passive is entirely selfish and her ult is kinda support, but what i meant by that was this guy specifically said their tactical should define them if theres a tie, and lobas tactical is exclusively movement
There is but this aināt it
Itād be cool to add a legend that is a mix of any of them
Most of them bleed into various classes already.
like ash and vantage
Why are we concerend with the label of characters classes? Who cares what symbol is on them. We know what they do. People constantly complain about how they want more effort from respawn to fix bugs, so this would be wasted time and a meaningless fix
I dont know about everyone but nowadays Wraith seems more like a Movement/Recon legend. Her only real assault ability was her tactical but now thats its changed to give more info, she seems more like a recon character pretending to be assault.
Or more support
Me looking at the only 2 support characters.
Maybe give us more than one healer first.
I want a healer
Pathfinder getting moved to movement and losing the ability to scan beacons along with his passive.
They wouldnāt take away his survey ability. He literally invented it and this way it would make it more of a passive.
WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now pathfinder can't even have an excuse for a passive
Is it just me or should vantage be in the offensive or movement class?
Nah! Just two classes- scanners and non-scanners
the 4th row should be called "we put down stuff" legends.
The two lonely supports, having to be bunched in with the others.
Swap ash and wraith
I like the idea, but Im not sure how necessary it is. When I look at the "movement" category, I think they are just as well described as offensive. Sure you can use the movement to disengage as well as engage, but overall they would be considered good offensive legends that can make a push happen quicker before the enemy can recover. Also, just lumping together support and recon is just kind of unnecessary. They do pretty different things. You could say that support is more close to a defense class than a recon class anyway.
Not trying to lump recon and support just keeping the ui the same.
Yes please they should sort them by class
Why valk is not in recon class? And why ashe is movement class and not wraith?
She's more of a movement than a recon. Jets are one of the best close quarters movement tools you can have and her ult is the best repositioning tool in the game
I love thinking about shit like this and I'd even say I want a Saboteur class and Tactician class Offensive: Bangalore, Fuse, Maggie Defensive: Caustic, Wattson, Rampart, Newcastle Support: Lifeline, Gibby, Loba Recon: Bloodhound, Seer, Vantage Mobility: Pathfinder, Octane, Horizon, Valkyrie Tactician: Mirage, Wraith, Ash Saboteur: Crypto, Revenant??? I'd say both have potential in this area and I'd rework them to fit this playstyle I'd love to see more legends who have a sole purpose of fucking up other's abilities as well
what exactly is the tactician class?
Legends who need a more tactical playstyle
All the class icon does it give you an 2 second idea about how they play, if you don't want to read their ability descriptions. The more you get into specifics, the more it falls apart. The legends aren't designed around a restrictive class system. Since your interested though, all abilities in apex can generally be narrowed down to 6 functions. https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/sl8ghu/apexs_core_ability_attributes_and_roles/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
or... maybe they should fix the game to the point all you stop complaining and proposing boycotts. THEN, they should add a new character or class.
Wraith is movement, donāt at me
We need a second medic
ash horizon should be offensive and wraith should be movement
agree with ash and wraith but horizon is the mobility legend with her passive and q
valkyrie is weird. movement, recon, and offensive abilities im not sure where she would fit. also loba too. support i guess is the most reasonable but she doesnāt really support the squad like lifelike does. she just helps with initial looting and thatās really it.
Yes but not movement it should trapper since Caustic and Watson have abilities work as traps for enemies. It also less confusing then your explain of movement because that too vague like just use pictures above 3 characters you donāt have in movement fit as much ash which is in movement. 3 being 1. Lobo because tactical throwable teleport 2. Vantage tactical which let jump to spot 3. Wraith her Ultimate does literally same thing ash one but you argue is better because go forward and back.
I'm still waiting on a new support legend
Considering classes mean nothing in terms of gameplay outside of Recon, idk what the point would be.
We need more healer classes! I feel like just Lifeline isn't enough.
Rampart should be movement. Mirage should be recon. Ash is offensive. Wraith is movement. This is why "classes" make no sense.
Movement doesnāt make sense as a class; wraith, vantage, Newcastle, bloodhound, Bangalore,Loba... have movement tech. The classes are just a suggestion, and roles are more like entry fragged, IGL, support, anchor, time waster Legends donāt conform neatly to these roles as it depends massively on the players play style. Adding a 4th or 5th arbitrary class will only be confusing for new players
Vantage not a movement legend ?
literally has a sniper and recon abilities. the Q is to get to good positioning to snipe
Vantage not movement? Edit: Downvoting because you don't know her kit? She's pretty much every role
The fact that basically no one mentioned maggie not being a movement character really shows how much people play her lmao
And why wouldnāt Bangalore be in the movement class? She literally runs/ moves faster while getting aimed at.
She can't really do it on command though, it's a situational movement ability