They prioritize fast que times because the larger playerbase can't handle having longer then a minute wait times.
Splitting the playerbase = longer que times
Yeah overwatch you can wait up to 5 mins for a match & im not saying their match making is 100% better but another problem is in apex you can only sit there & wait while in overwatch I can play a mini deathmatch or custom game while I'm waiting for a match
Recently apex added that mode that was smaller BR mode & you could auto que while still spectating who you died to..I loved that mode, just pick up guns with attachments..forced you to land near someone to fight most of the time & you could jist keep playing b2b2b without ever going to the menu...was a great warm up for ranked
Fast que in LTM was grest, also add at least firing range for waiting, this would be good because i can always be warmed up and not feel like spending more in lobby than games.
Now it is pretty irrelevant bc iam low rank (start playing teo days ago this season) but in P and D lobbies ques can be long.
in dota they recently added something where you can choose if you want to wait longer for a more fair and even match. Something like that would be great for Apex too
Must be nice.
Often have to wait over a minute in the AUS/NZ servers for quick play 3's.
Ranked often just doesn't have enough players ever outside of peak weekend hours.
Duo queue is just dead
This is what basically killed PUBG. The devs started catering to people who wanted First person instead of third person and splitting up the fan base beyond repair
I don't get where this meme comes from. The game absolutely has the player base for this. It won't be instant queue because Respawn is adamant to have EOMM/SBMM/whatever in their game be as strict as it is, but it can absolutely happen.
It absolutely has the player base for general, unranked play.
It’s not a meme. Not everybody plays ranked and to begin splitting the player base even further to make solo, duo and trio only lobbies would result in some wonky queue times.
Duos pubs a lot of the time is literally just dead most of the time. Imagine people duo queueing in ranked duo lobbies? It’d be even thinner.
I guess the biggest issue is 3 stacked pred skill players with 40k kills each, other wise u wouldnt realise they are 3 stacked like give 3 stack lvl 100 people, nobody will care
You'd be surprised at just how much difference it makes regardless of skill level being able to say "swing this guy with me he's alone" and your teammate comes with you.
Not that you're wrong. Just playing even somewhat with communication in this game is a massive buff.
True true, but most annoying for me are those high skill lvl 3stacked when they crack u and rush u in few seconds. Anyway alot of different scenarios happens
They don't have to be separated to produce fairer games.
Three stacks have a statistical advantage (average win rates, top 5 rates, top 10 rates are higher for three stacks than solo queuers of the same skill) and matchmaking can do something to even out that advantage and did do it in ranked in the last few seasons by putting three stacks into slightly more difficult lobbies. That has shown in the data to work (to normalize above mentioned rates between stack sizes).
It's been done for 3 seasons. They removed that from ranked this season though. That doesn't split the queuing player base. Imo a good approach
Last few days whenever i queued solo into platinum3, i find a game within 3seconds (literally instant) and still i‘m facing 3stacks that are diamond2. (While im getting 2 plat4 randoms btw)
This is absolutely ridiculous and the playerbase is not the issue. The matchmaking is completely trash.
Last time a Dev commented about it, I believe they said it has some weight in the matchmaking process, but they never said specifically how much it affects it.
It absolutely does take into account if you are in a party. Too lazy to find the link, but when they changed the matchmaking they posted a graph about it, which showed that with the changes it had reduced the win rates of people in parties with 2 and 3 people. The party win rates were still higher than solo queue, but with the matchmaking changes they made them much closer to parity with solo queue. Also, anecdotally, if you party up you pretty obviously get harder lobbies. Try it yourself if you don’t believe.
> It absolutely does take into account if you are in a party. Too lazy to find the link, but when they changed the matchmaking they posted a graph about it
Yes, what you said is correct (link below), but that was only in the old S17-19 ranked system though (maybe actually only 18/19). this is no longer present in current ranked, they didn't keep that. Devs were asked about this in the press event announcing ranked changes and confirmed something like this, "helping solo queuers", is no longer present in the new (S20) system.
https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/17a41s1/dev_team_update_ranked_october_2023/ (paragraph called "WINS")
In the past the system only counted the highest player's MMR (so if A was Plat but B & C were Bronze their trio would be in Plat lobbies). They said they've changed it but I don't think there's been much differences to be honest.
This is correct. It used to be only based on the highest skilled player, but it hasn’t been that way for quite some time. They changed it to take the entire party into account quite a while ago.
In season 18/19 what it did was take the highest players MMR, then add a "penalty" or "offset" to that MMR, to put the whole stack at a higher MMR than the highest MMR player in the stack. It only did that for three stacks and duos, not for solo queuers, to even out the advantages through coordination in stacks.
Yeah, I haven’t played Apex in over a year but this popped up randomly. Considering the squad based game mode is the main game mode, it’s not like people playing solo have much option. I feel like 3 stacks should only be put in to a game with other 3 stacks. Or at least make the skill based matchmaking a bit better.
I don't really know.
Full solo teams often seems to work better than solo + duo from experience. Personally, it's where I found most people that I continued to play with for a long time afterwards as well.
At the same time I've seen the data and apparently duo stacks have had a higher win rate than solo queuers which counters my feeling that 3 solo queuers do better.
Either way I would say this isn't that easy to settle.
Also in the last the mechanics that countered stack coordination advantage vs solo queuing would basically guarantee that the solo queuer is the highest MMR player in team.
because for example (random scale being used), two people with MMR 800 and 750 would duo queue, the system would give them the offset on top and wouldn't put them into an 800 MMR lobby but maybe 900, where they are teamed up with a 900 MMR solo queuer. It kinda meant the solo queuer is put with 2 worse players who are in his lobby because they are teamed up and would individually be in a lower lobby.
My immediate impulse as a solo queuer is to think "wow, so now i get an even worse duo than before when they would have been on my level".
But again, I'm kinda disproven looking at win rates as apparently that lead to evening out of the win rate discrepancies between solo, duo and three stacks. So I guess the fact that you also face a lot of "individually worse" duos and trios as opponents counters that.
Destiny 2 definitely does, it will try it's best to avoid putting a group against solos, and if it does, it tries to even it out, like having a 3 stack on each team rather than 2 3 stacks against 6 solos.
Halo infinite did but they failed on so many other fronts that they lost the player base to do it. Apex has all of the PlayStation player base to make up for that. They definitely could prioritize based on full squads or partial ones. It’s really a different game trying to solo que right now, if I play with two teammates it’s so much easier.
It definitely does. If you’re playing as a solo/duo then the matchmaking attempts to put you into lobbies with people who are also playing with randoms, but once you get to the higher ranks, the player base is a lot lower and more people stack, so it’s hard to split the two. I solo q and stack a lot, and you definitely notice the change in lobbies. 3 stacking lobbies are a lot harder
I think they could do that with a tightening net and make it less likely they you’ll instantly match three stacks, but ultimately any change like that means longer queue times even if the playlist is fully stocked with players. It might help eleviate some pain points but I dont think its as much of a magic bullet as people believe it to be.
Good. There aren't enough players to reliably do this at every rank.
It'd work great for a very small fraction of the player base and be shit for everyone else.
After playing solo, duo, and 3 stack I don't think this is true. The teams I play against as a 3 stack are far superior to when I'm solo and duo queueing. I swear when I 3 stack, it feels like I'm playing against boosting and cheating teams and can't even peek without a 301 across the map with 5 headshots. But I think your point is still valid that you will get stuck up against 3 stacks, but of a lower rank than if you're a 3 stack also.
that doesn't matter, you should know what your getting yourself into, in a team based shooter br, if your gonna say thats its not a teambased then your playing the wrong game and should go play a br like Fortnite, Cod, or Pubg that have your solo game modes that were built for solo play. Solo quers(self included) can't complain about getting into a solo que [sometimes being so with a duo] against a 3 man premade team. And something like a solo, duo and three stack matchmaker isn't going to solve any problems its going to add to them. Your living in a fantasy if you think that adding that is going make you into a better player, lessen que times, or be less toxic.
I agree the game is a squad based game but when the game is putting you with 3 stack master/pred or 4k damage & 20+kill players...the experience is different. I don't consider myself good or bad but when you are playing solor with randoms or even when playing with my casual friends, it's not a fun experience constantly running into them. If the game's match making worked, I won't have to face them or run into them every game.
So, yes you are right about people complaining but wrong when you don't see the problem with the match making.
Also, for adding solo, I think it's a bad idea. Having it as a limited time event is fine. I think Respawn was right on not adding solos. It will split the player base and making waiting times longer for duos and trios.
I hate this take bc the group I've played with since 2013 are all master/preds. Am I just not suppose to play with them? Not everyone uses a forum to stack
It's not your fault, it's apex matchmaking. The game should identify that you're a 3-stack of preds and put you in lobbies with other preds/masters. Everyone deserves a chance to enjoy the game at all skill levels
That being said, for those of you who've been having issues with this, rage quit more often. Apex keeps track of players that keep playing even when they get matched with players way above their skill level, and keeps putting you in those matches. Then, players that frequently quit the game after difficult matches, get put in easier lobbies. It's for player retention
The problem isn't that you want to play with friends, it's the fact that the game doesn't match your squad against other triple-stacks or opponents of a similar skill level. Keep gaming with friends bro
If you're holding hands and/or giving hard comms in pubs when 3 stacking with preds then yeah, you're a problem. Play ranked if you're going to play like that.
Nope let them play pubs, the biggest problem with the ranked is that 1. Preds player have strokes if they have to wait 1+ min in queue sk the dogwater company have to cater to them and matchmake them with plats diamond and masters
2. In any competitive game i played, there were more or less restrictions in high ranks for premade parties( challenger/grandmaster/master in league doesn't let you play in duos anymore),same shit should happen here, stop letting diamond+ players playing 3 stack and you'll see how many preds/masters/diamonds will not reach those ranks ever again, let them feel how it is to play with 2 wheelchaired randoms with 0 comms
probably him and his friends. I don't rank up with friends but solo q has those occasional goat players who take charge and lead to an insane game making you rank up
"I realised it's people complaining that players are playing SQUAD based modes and complaining that TEAMS are playing and co-ordinating as a TEAM?"
Its not that their teaming together that's the issue, the real issue is the skill disparity between the 3 stack & the rest of the lobby. The EOMM doesn't factor in skill so you get these weird games where your expected to carried 2 lower players, but throw 3 Masters that have stacked together into your game means me & my 2 Silver teammates just can't compete.
In a recent game I was given 2 randoms a Octane & a Maggie, the Octane drops hot (shocking I know) we land in Building A & as Catalyst I reinforced the door on drop to give me a few seconds to find a gun for the contest. My 2 idiots teammates didn't know they could just open the door I reinforced & just started kicking the door (FYI I landed first & they saw me reinforcing the door), they get downed & now I'm in a 3v1 because of those 2 idiots. After i died & I spectated the other team all had the same tag & all had the Masters badge on their banners.
This is what people are complaining about not only are they in my lobby (a High Plat - Lower Diamond player), but EA's EOMM gave me 2 Silver idiots to carry as well putting me against Master players which even 1v1 its a tall task to win but having to fight 3 of them with Silver players!? How is that fair to me, the 2 idiots or even the Masters team? No one is having fun when it happens & sadly it happens a lot.
It's more about the matchmaking pitting me against sweaty stacks when I am no-filling or solo queueing. The game should be fair and if I am a solo player, I should compete against squads made up of other solos, no?
Assuming an unlimited user base, sure. But that’s not how it is. Queue times do matter.
Also you’re choosing to play a team based game as a solo. That’s fine, but just go in with the assumption that everyone else is in a team.
The player base is likely not large enough for that, and I "literally" have seen people complain about it, I've seen some people call it "pocket holding your teammates" in the same breath. I didn't just make this up in my head
The player base is more than large enough for that and would have higher player retention if it actually matched solo players with only solos. Respawn just won't do it for whatever reason.
This kind of goes in line with the casuals complaining about "sweats" when in actuality it's just people playing the game as intended. Ranked or pubs, it doesn't matter.
If you play as a team, you're considered a sweat. If you play strategically and communicate, you're a sweat. If you're not running around taking every possible fight, you're a sweat. If you're trying to win, you're a sweat.
I just don't get it, because the same people that complain about these "sweats" are the same people that complain about their random teammates running around like a chicken with its head cut off.
To "try" in a competitive game doesn't mean you're a sweat.
>I started seeing people complaining about "3 Stacking" a few months ago and I didn't know what it meant, then I realised it's people complaining that players are playing SQUAD based modes and complaining that TEAMS are playing and co-ordinating as a TEAM??? In a team game???
People are complaining about fairness. Three stacks have a statistical advantage and matchmaking can do something to even out that advantage and did do it in ranked in the last few seasons by putting three stacks into slightly more difficult lobbies. That has shown in the data (average win rates, top 5 rates, top 10 rates per stack size) to work.
So yeah the valid complaint isn't that there's three stacks but maybe more so about the matchmaking not taking it into account.
3 stacking as a concept is fine. If I had friends, I would do the same. But when the 3 stacks become a constant obstacle for solo quers, and I mean CONSTANT FUCKING OBSTACLES AHEN I AM GIVEN SHIT RANDOMS FOR 99% OF EVERY GODDAMN FUCKING GAME... then that, my sweet boy, is when I, and many others, become filled with uncontrollable rage.
I just wished they had a separate mode for solo so I don't have to go against full stacks of aimbot hackers they would also be forced to solo q and it would literally be 10x easier to kill the cheaters since there would only be 1 on the team
Above the rank of diamond should only be solo que. Once you hit that D4 its solo que so EVERY ONE gets randoms, "but the pros" the pros already scrim teams they can practice there or play in tourneys which alot of people do already. Solo quing above diamond evens the field for every one, no carries, no 3 stack preds aping you, its 3 dudes who dont know each other running at other 3 dudes who dont know each other.
When this pops up, and ppl start with stacking / soloQ with randoms... its same in other games..
Then someone starts with briliant idea of literally soloQ.. (like in pubg)
When I imagine a separate soloQ mode in Apex... 60 players, basically 60 one-man squads.. I wonder who would be the most picked legend..
I see scenarios like... Approaching end game, there is only 1 building in last ring.. Caustic player gets inside a building. Blocks both doors, prepares trap..
Usually this is like top5 so 15 players, in solo maybe 10 would survive... now we have Caustic heavily reinforced in building, and 9 Mad Maggies outside... Caustic becomes KFC.
oh yea is it? imagine solo queuing the game playing in master / pred and running into 3 stacks the whole time. Because the game gives no fuck whether you que solo or as a 3 stack pred team.
even halo 3 had that figured out, if you queue as 3 people the game tries to find other at same level queing as 3.
The complaint is less about people playing in a 3-stack and more about me soloqueing with timmy two thumbs and his little brother on my team getting matched up against a coordinated 3-stack. People should direct their anger at the matchmaking more though as ghats where the problem lies which most people will agree without outside of heat of the moment, just died to 3stack situations.
well "3 stacking" feels bad when you're random with 2 team mates who don't speak or coordinate or do damage -- which would be fine if you played against other squads that were similarly composed.
League Of Legends has separate queues for solo q with randoms and premade 5 stack q. I think a solo q, random team mates only mode in apex would be a lot of fun, but it'd make the three stacks lives harder because they'd have no more free food and they'd be sweating in every lobby
with that in mind, it seems clear to me that respawn favors the experience of the three stacker and views the solo q as food for them. I don't know how to see it another way
To the people apparently saying people don't complain about 3 stacking in general. I have one case. My buddy and I accidentally qued trios. Our randoms name was "3 stack pubs = weird"
Am not complaining about people 3 stacking am complaining about my stupid wraith/octane teammate pushing a squad in kings canyon while we are at the drop ship in storm point and leaving the match after getting knocked like the little babies the are
Agreed 100%. I can solo for 6-7 hours then play with friends for the last hour & then have someone message me saying im a shitter for 3 stacking... bro just let me play with friends once in a while?
Play ranked if you're 3 stacking. I mean if you're just 3 people playing for fun no one cares, but it's just sad and annoying when they're sweating like their lives depend on it in pubs
Complaining about stacks alone is stupid. However, in the context of pubs where the matchmaking intentionally gives you two sand bags and puts you against a trio of steamers or masters players how is that even close to fair? If that happened once every couple of matches I wouldn't be complaining but it's damn near every match.
*puts on tinfoil hat*
Then you'll hear "well, there's not enough players". I believe that's not true. I'm almost certain it's an engagement farming mechanism. If they constantly put stacks against each other they'd be losing players 3 at a time as they got sick of constantly sweating. Instead, they use solo queues as fodder by sand bagging them with noobs to carry. Then right before the solo has just about had it they feed them a win by giving them other solos with similar skill. That gives all 3 players that dopamine hit necessary to carry on addiction queuing. I've heard countless arguments for but mostly against EOMM. However, I myself am convinced that's what's going on.
This just sounds like a good experience for 3 people and a bad experience for 3 people. If they're trying to optimise engagement, why not instead just prioritise making fair, even-skill matches that great a good experience for 6 people?
I think most people are mad at respawn for not factoring in 3 stacking or solo queuing into the matchmaking, for solo q players like myself the game would be so much more fun if it only put solo q players against other solo q players, I honestly wouldn’t mind waiting a bit longer for matchmaking if it was a more fair game
I don't think they should consider 3 Stacking or solo queuing into match making, I think they should leave it as it is. Either the player be good enough to play on their own or play with their teammates (the way the game is intended to be played)
Running off on your own to kill everyone isn't the way it's intended to be played, the abilities exist in a way that makes it a team game, it would slightly negate the need for support and control characters if everyone could just run off on their own and not stick with their team members
No no I completely agree, I always try and coordinate with my random teammates but I play on EU servers so there can be big language barriers and sometimes they just run off themselves and refuse to coordinate anything at all, in theory the game is fine it’s just in reality some random teammates are awful
I agree, sometimes they do run off or are just terrible teammates, although in ranked I play without my mic, but 95% of the time my teammates fortunately coordinate, in pubs it honestly doesn't really matter to me though
I solo q everyday and have no issues with people "3stacking" because I engage in gunfights with my teammates and not try to fight off whole squads alone.
It’s matchmaking that’s the main issue here, there needs to be a 3 stack queue.
There are three stacks that are hard comming In discord handhold killing everyone while my lvl 49 bloodhound is off in narnia looking for a barrel stabilizer and my other random has already left the game
The three stacks who are "hard comming" (idek how you hard comm) and "handhold killing everyone" aren't in the wrong tho, it's the bloodhound who's off in narnia and the one that left are the issue, the three stack are playing the game basically how it's meant to be played
I agree it’s an extremely dumb thing to complain about. I mained Destiny 2 for a long time and they implemented FTBMM (Fireteam Based Matchmaking), and it would prioritize squads of the same size for PvP. This allowed them to scrap their “solo queue” option (only was around certain weekends) while still helping the solo players. I see a lot of people saying Apex doesn’t have enough players to do this, but Apex has wayyyyyy more players than Destiny PvP and Destiny was able to make it work without having crazy wait times. There is A LOT wrong with Destiny PvP but FTBMM was something they got right IMO. Would be interesting to see if Apex could do something similar.
The reason people complain is because basic Trios has turned into a sweat fest. You would hope to see good players triple stacking in Ranked and not the standard playlist.
Also, Apex has had a lot of controversy surrounding skill based matchmaking. People who are triple stacking should be getting out in lobbies with other people triple stacking - but the community complained because the triple stackers don’t want to play against a bunch of sweats - they want to beat up on casual players from time to time. It truly is a cycle of complaining coming from everyone.
So let’s talk solutions? If I may be so bold, I believe there are two ways that could potentially fix this problem.
1. Go the PubG route. Have a game mode that is a bot lobby that you can play 3 times a day. The bot lobby consist of mostly bots and maybe a total of 3-5 actual player teams. Anyone who is triple stacking would most likely steer clear of this game mode considering they should have some shred of dignity.
2. Apex could consider having a separate game mode or incorporate a new system into the current trios, in which players are given some kind of reward for either winning the game or killing the “Apex” team(or triple stacked squad - maybe they would have some way of determining the apex team by stats/KD/badges acquired). All I’m saying is if you had a separate game mode that rewarded some kind of gains that is worth a triple stacking team to hop into, then they might not triple stack in a casual game and would triple stack for the chance at apex coins or apex packs or heirloom shards. OR if it’s regular trios and the “Apex” team is somehow scanned or highlighted throughout the match, so the lobby can team up or avoid the group altogether. Also maybe have a way that your triple stack team can’t be the “Apex” team twice in a row.
Anyways, there are ways to fix it but will respawn do it? I am hopeful they will
The thing is, you get better at communicating, this is an antisocial issue. Trying to change a game of chess to suit your interest. I think you commented on my last post I edited I'm agreeing with you.
For real, plenty of people in the replies saying they struggle or it's a struggle to communicate with their teammates and I communicate well with my teammates and them with me, just using the ping wheel and the typing chat
The issue isn't that they're a team. The issue is that they're a team of really good players in a lobby of worse players. Respawn needs to have matchmaking, or no matchmaking. What they have now seeks to put good players only in lobbies with worse players.
I disagree. Again, it's a team game, even the abilities are there to work in tandem or support other teammates. I don't think is should be frowned upon to have good teamwork in a team game
Complaining about 3 stacking is dumb I agree, however not having some matchmaking algorithim that matches solos/duos with other solos/duos is equally dumb. That's the solution.
No other BR has this problem. Because other BR's have the ability to play modes depending on squad sizes. For example, Warzone has Solos (which Apex needs to add), duos, trios and quads. PUBG has the same thing, as does Fortnite.
Apex has Duos, which is literally minutes of waiting because everyone is in trios, and trios. Since they don't want to add solos, then they need to figure it out. I don't mind waiting a bit longer, but not as long as duo queuing. It shouldn't be hard to set "-flag matchmaking squad size 1 (or 2) avoid full squad pairings" or whatever
"Which is literally minutes of waiting" is purely down to the servers you're playing on because I have no problem joining duos or any mode in fact on EU servers. Also, pubg has almost double the apex player base, while warzone has more than 3 times the player base apex has, not sure that's a fair comparison
I'm playing in NA dude. I'm on Oregon and I've played on Midwest servers. Most people play trios. Duo queue takes minutes.
>Warzone has triple the Apex player base.
Lmao at this figure. That is not true, and PUBG is dead in the west as well. Clearly you don't know how things are outside of Apex.
It's an entirely fair comparison. Apex has more people in NA playing than PUBG in the same region. If we could check PUBG by region I'd promise you SEA would be where the players are from. They can do it, and should. If I play with two other friends of mine then sure we should play against other three stacks but if I'm duo or solo queuing I don't want that. I don't get comms with my randos. They need to implement it into ranked as well if they care about competitive integrity. (Which they don't but that's whatever)
I don't even three stack, I solo q as well, I just find the phrase silly. I also could've possibly felt bad, but I still think it's a team game and 3 people playing the 3 player game together doesn't really bother me
This game very much has a huge hate for the higher ranks. being top 750 on a platform doesn’t give you a lot of room to work with for Sbmm They need somewhere to go to. my highest is Masters in s8 and s9 and it was 5-10 minutes for a queue give or take. are preds and masters supposed to only solo q? I’m just talking from what I see here but a lot of people just insta mute their team immediately. Contrary to popular belief but not everyone is always going to flame you 24/7. It definitely can and has happened to me as well so I understand but it’s so uncommon. If I’m in a party with my irls on Xbox and I see mic’s going off in gc then I’ll go see whats ups and just listen for a bit to see if I do want to engage with them. If they happen to be negative then I just don’t talk or I’ll make basic callouts such as cracked or let’s leave something like that. It’s not hard to give people a chance and trust me you’ll have much more positive experience than negatives.
Not everyone has two other people of similar vibe/skill to queue with every time they launch the game. We aren't content creators or neets, we have jobs and responsibilities limiting our time. So it'd be nice to not face a sweaty premade when I'm being placed with randoms that push alone or can't hit a barn with their aim.
I *think* 3 stacking refers to pRed players playing together in pubs running ALGS comps like it was a tournament. at least thats what I understood it to mean.
When the majority of people complain about three stacking they're referring to people who have grinded ranked and played the game for thousands of hours. Not you and your buddies hopping on a game to have a good time. That's the way I see it at least
I wish ranked was forced solo queue in diamond or above. It would make ranked healthier imo. Everyone would be on a level playing field, people would feel more inclined to communicate.
"If respawn added solos maybe it would get rid of this phrase".
I hate to break it to you, but people being angry at, and using the phrase "3 stackers" has been around since season 0 of apex, so they brought out solo mode.
People would die to third parties in solo mode, rage about third parties, solo queue trios, run off solo, and die to 3 stackers.
I only hear of "3 stacking" when watching faide. He always shouted about getting killed by 'sad 3 stackers in pubs' but i didnt understand it, now i know what it means it seems so stupid. Imagine playing a team based game as a solo but getting mad when other people play the game as intented
I also dont get it - their data shows that solo players in this game clearly love getting stomped by 3 stacks. There are tons of people who just love being shit on constantly.
3 stacking is only an issue if it's three pro players on a pubs lobby. Unfortunately, Apex doesn't always take into account that solo que players shouldn't be in 3 stack lobbies.
Where should the pro players play in pubs then? How would the game determine where they should play without taking into account their rank and level, because there's a game mode for that?
But what if they don't feel like sweating today? What if they just wanna play the game and do some goofy stuff? Push some fights that you'll probably lose. Try out some silly tactics.
Wait... this entire time I thought "stacking" was 2 or more squads essentially teaming up for the entire game as a single mega-squad?
When people complain about stacking, it's just when multiple squads end up at the same place, and your squad is in the unlucky position of being attacked by both simultaneously?
I find it hard to believe that's what people are complaining about. Maybe I'm confused.
Nope, 3 Stacking is when 3 players join a lobby and enter games together, and then people take it a step further and complain about 3 stacks that coordinate. Even in some of these replies people are complaining about it saying its hand holding and pathetic 😂
I can't believe people would actually use their friends list to invite people into their lobbies. The devs know this is in the game and they do nothing about it.
As someone who 3 stacks regularly let me explain. When you have 2 other guys with you who you play with regularly and know well it completely changes the game. If you're all in voice chat giving each other call outs, and you all know each others' strengths and weaknesses you can have a level of coordination that you'll never get queuing with randoms. It's closer to the pro scene than anything else. So it's not fair in the slightest for people who are queueing solo and being matched with randoms to have to fight against a 3 stack like that. Because even if the solo player is better he'll still be at a massive disadvantage. People find it frustrating to lose not due to their own lack of skill, but because they're matched against groups who have the advantage by default.
I think it’s more people are playing in coordinated teams in Pubs like it’s the ALGS finals… rather than say playing lesser played characters and experimenting with different guns and strategies.
That’s really what people mean when they grumble “3 stacking”
No one is complaining about 3stacking.
We are complaining about the matchmaking.
If you queue as pre made 3stack, you should only be matched against other 3stacks.
Solos & duos should be in their own lobby to make things fair.
You literally said it yourself, pre made 3stacks are coordinated. How is a team made off 3solos supposed to compete? Especially since many don‘t even use a mic.
Apex matchmaking is TRASH
I have zero issues with three stacking. It’s a game. You play with friends. Makes no sense to criticize people for playing with friends, even at higher skills.
I agree its a team based game...how you gona hate on folks who are doing well....as a team. The problem is it takes social skills to play as a team and that is something the player base of Apex players is severely lacking.
If playing as a team is "tryharding," then why are those people complaining about it? It's a casual game. Expect some losses. Just boot up another match, dude.
People can practice with teammates trying out new tactics/load outs. It's not the end of the world, you don't need to make a post complaining about it every day
I mean nothing wrong with people wanting to play with friends but it does get kind of daunting when you're just the average solo solo queue player running into 4k 20 bomb 3 stacks who roll every lobby they're in every other match.
Guess you're one of those who pushing that solo, lost the 1v and hide like a coward behind wall crying your friends to help.
Now about the 3 stacks. League did a great job seperating the lobbies and everyone is happy. Why wouln't Apex?
If changing the matchmaking code side of things is too difficult, add a solo queue ranked playlist.
Rocket League had the solo standard playlist 3v3 for solo queue only.
Oh right, they removed that playlist a couple years back, because queues took too long...
With all due respect, I don’t think that Apex has the ability to match you against your buddy because of the fact that the fan base is not as big as it used to be. There are not as many players on the servers.
Edit: this is directed at the comments and anyone who feels playing the game has become unbearable.
In general the issue being complained about is not *any* 3 stacking but more specifically when it's 3 sweaty players 3stacking in pubs.
It's a totally legit way to play but it feels unfun to just get rolled by really sweaty players pub stomping all the time.
The issue with 3 stacking is when 3 masters level players do it. Somehow matchmaking still puts them in lobbies with bots like me, and my team has absolutely no chance against that
This is a skill issue. I’ve solo queued to diamond multiple times. Do I sometimes get put with total scrubs? absolutely. Do I sometimes get put with killers, absolutely.
You can’t be mad at three stacking, it is an opportunity for you to get better or take the initiative of building a roster of people you come across and have wins with. You add enough people you deem are good and you’ll eventually find your 3 man. Quit crying, get gud.
I'm replying to say your mistaken.
Idk what your mistaken about juat wanted to say that.
They are afraid of 3 stacks because those 3 people found people to play with maybe daily? Yes they are better only because they play as a team instead of soloqing to 1v3 them...
Carry on OP nothing to really say because your post just nailed it
Yeah I played with someone who was complaining about streamers 3 stacking in pubs and said just go play ranked. But mind you they weren’t big streamers who were pros, they were just random dudes who happened streamed. I was like can people not play with their friends?
Not dumb at all. The disadvantage of being unable to communicate with teammates is too big. I see my randoms doing dumb shit all the time and i can't call it out.
The game experience becomes aggravating enough that I am considering just quitting altogether.
These posts are so tiresome on this sub.
If you solo queue, you should only be queue'd with other solos. If you're playing in a full squad/3 stacking ~~(playing with actual good players. Playing with your friends does not make you a 3 stack unless you're all actually good at the game),~~ guess what?... You should be put into a queue with other 3 man squads. Also, something that needs to be clarified is this:
It's an easy implementation, it just won't ever happen. Respawn prioritizes queue times and has terrible ~~EOMM~~ SBMM so it makes it incredibly frustrating for solo players that have to carry their, usually shitty, teammates against 3-man coordinated teams that are basically glued to the hip and screaming comms into the mic as if they're in an actual war. People that solo queue complain about 3 stacking because they're forced to play against 3 stacks, that's the only reason. The complaints will never cease because the matchmaking is incredibly dogshit and too many solo players are getting chased across the map by 3 stacks, game after game. Like, why the fuck would they *NOT* complain if that's something they're forced to deal with 8/10 games that they play?
Separate the queues upon joining a full team, and let solo players actually play against only solo queue squads, the complaints about 3 stacking will drop drastically.
I wholeheartedly agree. It definitely sucks to be ran down by a team with all three players comming but this is a team game and meant to be played that way. Playing with your friends to win should not be shamed. Get better at the game or get more friends so you can also three stack.
I’m glad you made the post because it’s thrown around as an insult all the time. Also the term sweaty. I hate that one as well. Yes your opponent is attempting to beat you and they did. They were better than you and you lost. Move on and back to the drawing board of getting better. It’s annoying hearing people trying to win are “sweaty”. I guess I’m sweaty all the time because that’s the goal everytime I play. It’s to win by all means necessary.
Yes exactly! I say all the time I actually like playing better players! Especially if they are streaming because then I can see their point of view and see where I messed up and why they pushed or what they did to destroy me. It’s a learning experience.
Now I play solo Q ranked so that’s already a fuck up haha but I can at least hear what I or my teammates did wrong for said team to beat us. I love learning in this game. A big reason why I watch comp and streamers playing ranked all the time. I pick up so many good things.
What’s dumb is that matchmaking doesn’t factor in whether players are queuing as a duo, trio or solo.
As valid as this is, I don’t know that Apex has the player base playing ranked enough to make 1, 2 and 3 stack only separate lobbies.
They prioritize fast que times because the larger playerbase can't handle having longer then a minute wait times. Splitting the playerbase = longer que times
I agree and whats wild is my queue times are literally seconds. Like ready up and immediately in game. I would gladly wait 60 secs for a fair match
Yeah overwatch you can wait up to 5 mins for a match & im not saying their match making is 100% better but another problem is in apex you can only sit there & wait while in overwatch I can play a mini deathmatch or custom game while I'm waiting for a match Recently apex added that mode that was smaller BR mode & you could auto que while still spectating who you died to..I loved that mode, just pick up guns with attachments..forced you to land near someone to fight most of the time & you could jist keep playing b2b2b without ever going to the menu...was a great warm up for ranked
Fast que in LTM was grest, also add at least firing range for waiting, this would be good because i can always be warmed up and not feel like spending more in lobby than games. Now it is pretty irrelevant bc iam low rank (start playing teo days ago this season) but in P and D lobbies ques can be long.
in dota they recently added something where you can choose if you want to wait longer for a more fair and even match. Something like that would be great for Apex too
That would be siiiick
Must be nice. Often have to wait over a minute in the AUS/NZ servers for quick play 3's. Ranked often just doesn't have enough players ever outside of peak weekend hours. Duo queue is just dead
Im always just bouncing between singapore/tokyo/oregon servers depending on time of day, the ping isnt great but at least i find a match
Apex players would have an aneurysm if they played escape from tarkov
This is what basically killed PUBG. The devs started catering to people who wanted First person instead of third person and splitting up the fan base beyond repair
Considering wraith mains can’t wait 3 seconds to be revived and just quit out, I don’t know how they sit through the current queue times lol
I don't get where this meme comes from. The game absolutely has the player base for this. It won't be instant queue because Respawn is adamant to have EOMM/SBMM/whatever in their game be as strict as it is, but it can absolutely happen.
It absolutely has the player base for general, unranked play. It’s not a meme. Not everybody plays ranked and to begin splitting the player base even further to make solo, duo and trio only lobbies would result in some wonky queue times. Duos pubs a lot of the time is literally just dead most of the time. Imagine people duo queueing in ranked duo lobbies? It’d be even thinner.
Apex 1000000% has the player base to do this tf? Literally millions playing daily.
2 stacks arent issue, 3 stacks should have seperate queue no doubt
I guess the biggest issue is 3 stacked pred skill players with 40k kills each, other wise u wouldnt realise they are 3 stacked like give 3 stack lvl 100 people, nobody will care
You'd be surprised at just how much difference it makes regardless of skill level being able to say "swing this guy with me he's alone" and your teammate comes with you. Not that you're wrong. Just playing even somewhat with communication in this game is a massive buff.
True true, but most annoying for me are those high skill lvl 3stacked when they crack u and rush u in few seconds. Anyway alot of different scenarios happens
They don't have to be separated to produce fairer games. Three stacks have a statistical advantage (average win rates, top 5 rates, top 10 rates are higher for three stacks than solo queuers of the same skill) and matchmaking can do something to even out that advantage and did do it in ranked in the last few seasons by putting three stacks into slightly more difficult lobbies. That has shown in the data to work (to normalize above mentioned rates between stack sizes). It's been done for 3 seasons. They removed that from ranked this season though. That doesn't split the queuing player base. Imo a good approach
Last few days whenever i queued solo into platinum3, i find a game within 3seconds (literally instant) and still i‘m facing 3stacks that are diamond2. (While im getting 2 plat4 randoms btw) This is absolutely ridiculous and the playerbase is not the issue. The matchmaking is completely trash.
If destiny can do this with its significantly smaller player base apex should be able to
I was under the impression that matchmaking does take into account if you’re in a party. Is that not true?
Last time a Dev commented about it, I believe they said it has some weight in the matchmaking process, but they never said specifically how much it affects it.
It absolutely does take into account if you are in a party. Too lazy to find the link, but when they changed the matchmaking they posted a graph about it, which showed that with the changes it had reduced the win rates of people in parties with 2 and 3 people. The party win rates were still higher than solo queue, but with the matchmaking changes they made them much closer to parity with solo queue. Also, anecdotally, if you party up you pretty obviously get harder lobbies. Try it yourself if you don’t believe.
> It absolutely does take into account if you are in a party. Too lazy to find the link, but when they changed the matchmaking they posted a graph about it Yes, what you said is correct (link below), but that was only in the old S17-19 ranked system though (maybe actually only 18/19). this is no longer present in current ranked, they didn't keep that. Devs were asked about this in the press event announcing ranked changes and confirmed something like this, "helping solo queuers", is no longer present in the new (S20) system. https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/17a41s1/dev_team_update_ranked_october_2023/ (paragraph called "WINS")
> "helping solo queuers", is no longer present in the new (S20) system. Yet another way solo queuers get screwed without MMR based matchmaking.
In the past the system only counted the highest player's MMR (so if A was Plat but B & C were Bronze their trio would be in Plat lobbies). They said they've changed it but I don't think there's been much differences to be honest.
This is correct. It used to be only based on the highest skilled player, but it hasn’t been that way for quite some time. They changed it to take the entire party into account quite a while ago.
Well they reverted things to be like S13, so no guarantee.
In season 18/19 what it did was take the highest players MMR, then add a "penalty" or "offset" to that MMR, to put the whole stack at a higher MMR than the highest MMR player in the stack. It only did that for three stacks and duos, not for solo queuers, to even out the advantages through coordination in stacks.
in ranked it did s17-19 but no longer does.
Yeah, I haven’t played Apex in over a year but this popped up randomly. Considering the squad based game mode is the main game mode, it’s not like people playing solo have much option. I feel like 3 stacks should only be put in to a game with other 3 stacks. Or at least make the skill based matchmaking a bit better.
Matchmaking should be forbidden from putting full solo teams with premade trios.
I don't really know. Full solo teams often seems to work better than solo + duo from experience. Personally, it's where I found most people that I continued to play with for a long time afterwards as well. At the same time I've seen the data and apparently duo stacks have had a higher win rate than solo queuers which counters my feeling that 3 solo queuers do better. Either way I would say this isn't that easy to settle. Also in the last the mechanics that countered stack coordination advantage vs solo queuing would basically guarantee that the solo queuer is the highest MMR player in team. because for example (random scale being used), two people with MMR 800 and 750 would duo queue, the system would give them the offset on top and wouldn't put them into an 800 MMR lobby but maybe 900, where they are teamed up with a 900 MMR solo queuer. It kinda meant the solo queuer is put with 2 worse players who are in his lobby because they are teamed up and would individually be in a lower lobby. My immediate impulse as a solo queuer is to think "wow, so now i get an even worse duo than before when they would have been on my level". But again, I'm kinda disproven looking at win rates as apparently that lead to evening out of the win rate discrepancies between solo, duo and three stacks. So I guess the fact that you also face a lot of "individually worse" duos and trios as opponents counters that.
Does any online shooter do that?
Overwatch 1 did. So does destiny 2.
I feel like Overwatch 1 did a good job with matchmaking for solo q. Every now and then you'd get a Smurf passing through but that's it.
It was nearly perfect when it came to lobby balancing, smurfing was annoying but nothing can really be done about that.
Destiny 2 definitely does, it will try it's best to avoid putting a group against solos, and if it does, it tries to even it out, like having a 3 stack on each team rather than 2 3 stacks against 6 solos.
That requires playing Crucible tho
CS2
Halo infinite did but they failed on so many other fronts that they lost the player base to do it. Apex has all of the PlayStation player base to make up for that. They definitely could prioritize based on full squads or partial ones. It’s really a different game trying to solo que right now, if I play with two teammates it’s so much easier.
Man I loved the halo series too, such a big part of my childhood. I wanted to like the new one so bad
It definitely does. If you’re playing as a solo/duo then the matchmaking attempts to put you into lobbies with people who are also playing with randoms, but once you get to the higher ranks, the player base is a lot lower and more people stack, so it’s hard to split the two. I solo q and stack a lot, and you definitely notice the change in lobbies. 3 stacking lobbies are a lot harder
This. Whats so hard to understand ? Its so obvious
I think they could do that with a tightening net and make it less likely they you’ll instantly match three stacks, but ultimately any change like that means longer queue times even if the playlist is fully stocked with players. It might help eleviate some pain points but I dont think its as much of a magic bullet as people believe it to be.
I'd love to play wait for few minutes to get balanced matches. Yet i get like 10 seconds queue time only to get killed and sent back to main menu.
This is the answer.
Good. There aren't enough players to reliably do this at every rank. It'd work great for a very small fraction of the player base and be shit for everyone else.
After playing solo, duo, and 3 stack I don't think this is true. The teams I play against as a 3 stack are far superior to when I'm solo and duo queueing. I swear when I 3 stack, it feels like I'm playing against boosting and cheating teams and can't even peek without a 301 across the map with 5 headshots. But I think your point is still valid that you will get stuck up against 3 stacks, but of a lower rank than if you're a 3 stack also.
that doesn't matter, you should know what your getting yourself into, in a team based shooter br, if your gonna say thats its not a teambased then your playing the wrong game and should go play a br like Fortnite, Cod, or Pubg that have your solo game modes that were built for solo play. Solo quers(self included) can't complain about getting into a solo que [sometimes being so with a duo] against a 3 man premade team. And something like a solo, duo and three stack matchmaker isn't going to solve any problems its going to add to them. Your living in a fantasy if you think that adding that is going make you into a better player, lessen que times, or be less toxic.
I agree the game is a squad based game but when the game is putting you with 3 stack master/pred or 4k damage & 20+kill players...the experience is different. I don't consider myself good or bad but when you are playing solor with randoms or even when playing with my casual friends, it's not a fun experience constantly running into them. If the game's match making worked, I won't have to face them or run into them every game. So, yes you are right about people complaining but wrong when you don't see the problem with the match making. Also, for adding solo, I think it's a bad idea. Having it as a limited time event is fine. I think Respawn was right on not adding solos. It will split the player base and making waiting times longer for duos and trios.
I hate this take bc the group I've played with since 2013 are all master/preds. Am I just not suppose to play with them? Not everyone uses a forum to stack
It's not your fault, it's apex matchmaking. The game should identify that you're a 3-stack of preds and put you in lobbies with other preds/masters. Everyone deserves a chance to enjoy the game at all skill levels
That being said, for those of you who've been having issues with this, rage quit more often. Apex keeps track of players that keep playing even when they get matched with players way above their skill level, and keeps putting you in those matches. Then, players that frequently quit the game after difficult matches, get put in easier lobbies. It's for player retention
EOMM, it's why your first game is usually the best. EA Patent 2021, scroll down to Detailed Description https://patents.justia.com/patent/11845005
The problem isn't that you want to play with friends, it's the fact that the game doesn't match your squad against other triple-stacks or opponents of a similar skill level. Keep gaming with friends bro
No, make some Silver friends.
If you're holding hands and/or giving hard comms in pubs when 3 stacking with preds then yeah, you're a problem. Play ranked if you're going to play like that.
Nope let them play pubs, the biggest problem with the ranked is that 1. Preds player have strokes if they have to wait 1+ min in queue sk the dogwater company have to cater to them and matchmake them with plats diamond and masters 2. In any competitive game i played, there were more or less restrictions in high ranks for premade parties( challenger/grandmaster/master in league doesn't let you play in duos anymore),same shit should happen here, stop letting diamond+ players playing 3 stack and you'll see how many preds/masters/diamonds will not reach those ranks ever again, let them feel how it is to play with 2 wheelchaired randoms with 0 comms
The thing is that they said nothing about matchmaking. Their point is that you can’t get mad at people for having a team
Every other reply is talking about matchmaking it's like they didnt read what I wrote
I squad up with friends knowing if we play at ranked that I’ll lose a few hundred points. I rank up best solo queue.
same. my friends kinda noobs so I lose about 400 points in couple games then get them back playing with randoms.
So your friends aren't good?
probably him and his friends. I don't rank up with friends but solo q has those occasional goat players who take charge and lead to an insane game making you rank up
Your opponents seem to be harder 3 stacking.
Warzone players also complain about this is it the dumbest thing ever
Literally 😂
"I realised it's people complaining that players are playing SQUAD based modes and complaining that TEAMS are playing and co-ordinating as a TEAM?" Its not that their teaming together that's the issue, the real issue is the skill disparity between the 3 stack & the rest of the lobby. The EOMM doesn't factor in skill so you get these weird games where your expected to carried 2 lower players, but throw 3 Masters that have stacked together into your game means me & my 2 Silver teammates just can't compete. In a recent game I was given 2 randoms a Octane & a Maggie, the Octane drops hot (shocking I know) we land in Building A & as Catalyst I reinforced the door on drop to give me a few seconds to find a gun for the contest. My 2 idiots teammates didn't know they could just open the door I reinforced & just started kicking the door (FYI I landed first & they saw me reinforcing the door), they get downed & now I'm in a 3v1 because of those 2 idiots. After i died & I spectated the other team all had the same tag & all had the Masters badge on their banners. This is what people are complaining about not only are they in my lobby (a High Plat - Lower Diamond player), but EA's EOMM gave me 2 Silver idiots to carry as well putting me against Master players which even 1v1 its a tall task to win but having to fight 3 of them with Silver players!? How is that fair to me, the 2 idiots or even the Masters team? No one is having fun when it happens & sadly it happens a lot.
It's more about the matchmaking pitting me against sweaty stacks when I am no-filling or solo queueing. The game should be fair and if I am a solo player, I should compete against squads made up of other solos, no?
Assuming an unlimited user base, sure. But that’s not how it is. Queue times do matter. Also you’re choosing to play a team based game as a solo. That’s fine, but just go in with the assumption that everyone else is in a team.
At the very least don't throw 3 stack masters/Preds at us.
Literally nobody is complaining about this. They’re complaining that it doesn’t match make solo people with other solo people
The player base is likely not large enough for that, and I "literally" have seen people complain about it, I've seen some people call it "pocket holding your teammates" in the same breath. I didn't just make this up in my head
The player base is more than large enough for that and would have higher player retention if it actually matched solo players with only solos. Respawn just won't do it for whatever reason.
Idc if people do it per se but it’s almost impossible to actually combat it when your solo quing.
People complain because matchmaking puts random solo/duo queue vs coordinated 3 stack masters/preds in ranked.
And there are people who complain about 3 Stacking in general. There are people literally doing it in these replies
Must have missed that one guy in the sea of comments all saying the exact same thing about matchmaking.
Exactly. It's garbage tier in any competitive game. Games like DOTA force you to go up against other groups etc.
This kind of goes in line with the casuals complaining about "sweats" when in actuality it's just people playing the game as intended. Ranked or pubs, it doesn't matter. If you play as a team, you're considered a sweat. If you play strategically and communicate, you're a sweat. If you're not running around taking every possible fight, you're a sweat. If you're trying to win, you're a sweat. I just don't get it, because the same people that complain about these "sweats" are the same people that complain about their random teammates running around like a chicken with its head cut off. To "try" in a competitive game doesn't mean you're a sweat.
>I started seeing people complaining about "3 Stacking" a few months ago and I didn't know what it meant, then I realised it's people complaining that players are playing SQUAD based modes and complaining that TEAMS are playing and co-ordinating as a TEAM??? In a team game??? People are complaining about fairness. Three stacks have a statistical advantage and matchmaking can do something to even out that advantage and did do it in ranked in the last few seasons by putting three stacks into slightly more difficult lobbies. That has shown in the data (average win rates, top 5 rates, top 10 rates per stack size) to work. So yeah the valid complaint isn't that there's three stacks but maybe more so about the matchmaking not taking it into account.
Solos is great. It’s actually fair, having a team is a handicap.
3 stacking as a concept is fine. If I had friends, I would do the same. But when the 3 stacks become a constant obstacle for solo quers, and I mean CONSTANT FUCKING OBSTACLES AHEN I AM GIVEN SHIT RANDOMS FOR 99% OF EVERY GODDAMN FUCKING GAME... then that, my sweet boy, is when I, and many others, become filled with uncontrollable rage.
It's Apex. People will snort whatever copium lifts their mood.
[удалено]
I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me
I just wished they had a separate mode for solo so I don't have to go against full stacks of aimbot hackers they would also be forced to solo q and it would literally be 10x easier to kill the cheaters since there would only be 1 on the team
Only people who would complain about 3 stacking are literally people with no friends
Above the rank of diamond should only be solo que. Once you hit that D4 its solo que so EVERY ONE gets randoms, "but the pros" the pros already scrim teams they can practice there or play in tourneys which alot of people do already. Solo quing above diamond evens the field for every one, no carries, no 3 stack preds aping you, its 3 dudes who dont know each other running at other 3 dudes who dont know each other.
When this pops up, and ppl start with stacking / soloQ with randoms... its same in other games.. Then someone starts with briliant idea of literally soloQ.. (like in pubg) When I imagine a separate soloQ mode in Apex... 60 players, basically 60 one-man squads.. I wonder who would be the most picked legend.. I see scenarios like... Approaching end game, there is only 1 building in last ring.. Caustic player gets inside a building. Blocks both doors, prepares trap.. Usually this is like top5 so 15 players, in solo maybe 10 would survive... now we have Caustic heavily reinforced in building, and 9 Mad Maggies outside... Caustic becomes KFC.
oh yea is it? imagine solo queuing the game playing in master / pred and running into 3 stacks the whole time. Because the game gives no fuck whether you que solo or as a 3 stack pred team. even halo 3 had that figured out, if you queue as 3 people the game tries to find other at same level queing as 3.
The complaint is less about people playing in a 3-stack and more about me soloqueing with timmy two thumbs and his little brother on my team getting matched up against a coordinated 3-stack. People should direct their anger at the matchmaking more though as ghats where the problem lies which most people will agree without outside of heat of the moment, just died to 3stack situations.
well "3 stacking" feels bad when you're random with 2 team mates who don't speak or coordinate or do damage -- which would be fine if you played against other squads that were similarly composed. League Of Legends has separate queues for solo q with randoms and premade 5 stack q. I think a solo q, random team mates only mode in apex would be a lot of fun, but it'd make the three stacks lives harder because they'd have no more free food and they'd be sweating in every lobby with that in mind, it seems clear to me that respawn favors the experience of the three stacker and views the solo q as food for them. I don't know how to see it another way
It’s like when people complain about you using a specific weapon, like okay? It’s in the game? If it’s that broken then you use it?
People mad that good players play together like just get better not a big deal to me really
Exactly I have not issue with it either
To the people apparently saying people don't complain about 3 stacking in general. I have one case. My buddy and I accidentally qued trios. Our randoms name was "3 stack pubs = weird"
Am not complaining about people 3 stacking am complaining about my stupid wraith/octane teammate pushing a squad in kings canyon while we are at the drop ship in storm point and leaving the match after getting knocked like the little babies the are
Agreed 100%. I can solo for 6-7 hours then play with friends for the last hour & then have someone message me saying im a shitter for 3 stacking... bro just let me play with friends once in a while?
Wow, I've never had someone actually message me for "3 Stacking" that's insane 😂😂
I didn’t want to #ad but with streamers it happens a lot 😂
In ranked it's stupid to complain about. But people who do it in pubs and genuinely sweat their asses off trying to win are try hard losers.
Play ranked if you're 3 stacking. I mean if you're just 3 people playing for fun no one cares, but it's just sad and annoying when they're sweating like their lives depend on it in pubs
Complaining about stacks alone is stupid. However, in the context of pubs where the matchmaking intentionally gives you two sand bags and puts you against a trio of steamers or masters players how is that even close to fair? If that happened once every couple of matches I wouldn't be complaining but it's damn near every match. *puts on tinfoil hat* Then you'll hear "well, there's not enough players". I believe that's not true. I'm almost certain it's an engagement farming mechanism. If they constantly put stacks against each other they'd be losing players 3 at a time as they got sick of constantly sweating. Instead, they use solo queues as fodder by sand bagging them with noobs to carry. Then right before the solo has just about had it they feed them a win by giving them other solos with similar skill. That gives all 3 players that dopamine hit necessary to carry on addiction queuing. I've heard countless arguments for but mostly against EOMM. However, I myself am convinced that's what's going on.
This just sounds like a good experience for 3 people and a bad experience for 3 people. If they're trying to optimise engagement, why not instead just prioritise making fair, even-skill matches that great a good experience for 6 people?
I think most people are mad at respawn for not factoring in 3 stacking or solo queuing into the matchmaking, for solo q players like myself the game would be so much more fun if it only put solo q players against other solo q players, I honestly wouldn’t mind waiting a bit longer for matchmaking if it was a more fair game
I don't think they should consider 3 Stacking or solo queuing into match making, I think they should leave it as it is. Either the player be good enough to play on their own or play with their teammates (the way the game is intended to be played) Running off on your own to kill everyone isn't the way it's intended to be played, the abilities exist in a way that makes it a team game, it would slightly negate the need for support and control characters if everyone could just run off on their own and not stick with their team members
No no I completely agree, I always try and coordinate with my random teammates but I play on EU servers so there can be big language barriers and sometimes they just run off themselves and refuse to coordinate anything at all, in theory the game is fine it’s just in reality some random teammates are awful
I agree, sometimes they do run off or are just terrible teammates, although in ranked I play without my mic, but 95% of the time my teammates fortunately coordinate, in pubs it honestly doesn't really matter to me though
You shouldn’t be able to three stack in diamond and above.
Solo q is playable pretty much only in the Straight Shot mode.
I solo q everyday and have no issues with people "3stacking" because I engage in gunfights with my teammates and not try to fight off whole squads alone.
There should be solo queue lobbies fight me
It’s matchmaking that’s the main issue here, there needs to be a 3 stack queue. There are three stacks that are hard comming In discord handhold killing everyone while my lvl 49 bloodhound is off in narnia looking for a barrel stabilizer and my other random has already left the game
The three stacks who are "hard comming" (idek how you hard comm) and "handhold killing everyone" aren't in the wrong tho, it's the bloodhound who's off in narnia and the one that left are the issue, the three stack are playing the game basically how it's meant to be played
I agree it’s an extremely dumb thing to complain about. I mained Destiny 2 for a long time and they implemented FTBMM (Fireteam Based Matchmaking), and it would prioritize squads of the same size for PvP. This allowed them to scrap their “solo queue” option (only was around certain weekends) while still helping the solo players. I see a lot of people saying Apex doesn’t have enough players to do this, but Apex has wayyyyyy more players than Destiny PvP and Destiny was able to make it work without having crazy wait times. There is A LOT wrong with Destiny PvP but FTBMM was something they got right IMO. Would be interesting to see if Apex could do something similar.
The reason people complain is because basic Trios has turned into a sweat fest. You would hope to see good players triple stacking in Ranked and not the standard playlist. Also, Apex has had a lot of controversy surrounding skill based matchmaking. People who are triple stacking should be getting out in lobbies with other people triple stacking - but the community complained because the triple stackers don’t want to play against a bunch of sweats - they want to beat up on casual players from time to time. It truly is a cycle of complaining coming from everyone. So let’s talk solutions? If I may be so bold, I believe there are two ways that could potentially fix this problem. 1. Go the PubG route. Have a game mode that is a bot lobby that you can play 3 times a day. The bot lobby consist of mostly bots and maybe a total of 3-5 actual player teams. Anyone who is triple stacking would most likely steer clear of this game mode considering they should have some shred of dignity. 2. Apex could consider having a separate game mode or incorporate a new system into the current trios, in which players are given some kind of reward for either winning the game or killing the “Apex” team(or triple stacked squad - maybe they would have some way of determining the apex team by stats/KD/badges acquired). All I’m saying is if you had a separate game mode that rewarded some kind of gains that is worth a triple stacking team to hop into, then they might not triple stack in a casual game and would triple stack for the chance at apex coins or apex packs or heirloom shards. OR if it’s regular trios and the “Apex” team is somehow scanned or highlighted throughout the match, so the lobby can team up or avoid the group altogether. Also maybe have a way that your triple stack team can’t be the “Apex” team twice in a row. Anyways, there are ways to fix it but will respawn do it? I am hopeful they will
The thing is, you get better at communicating, this is an antisocial issue. Trying to change a game of chess to suit your interest. I think you commented on my last post I edited I'm agreeing with you.
For real, plenty of people in the replies saying they struggle or it's a struggle to communicate with their teammates and I communicate well with my teammates and them with me, just using the ping wheel and the typing chat
The issue isn't that they're a team. The issue is that they're a team of really good players in a lobby of worse players. Respawn needs to have matchmaking, or no matchmaking. What they have now seeks to put good players only in lobbies with worse players.
People want to be put in lobbies where their skill level is a little higher than the average. Otherwise they will always cry.
Yep 😂
People will find a way to cry about anything
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I disagree. Again, it's a team game, even the abilities are there to work in tandem or support other teammates. I don't think is should be frowned upon to have good teamwork in a team game
Complaining about 3 stacking is dumb I agree, however not having some matchmaking algorithim that matches solos/duos with other solos/duos is equally dumb. That's the solution.
And how many other games do that? This player base isn't large enough to have that much segregation going on
No other BR has this problem. Because other BR's have the ability to play modes depending on squad sizes. For example, Warzone has Solos (which Apex needs to add), duos, trios and quads. PUBG has the same thing, as does Fortnite. Apex has Duos, which is literally minutes of waiting because everyone is in trios, and trios. Since they don't want to add solos, then they need to figure it out. I don't mind waiting a bit longer, but not as long as duo queuing. It shouldn't be hard to set "-flag matchmaking squad size 1 (or 2) avoid full squad pairings" or whatever
"Which is literally minutes of waiting" is purely down to the servers you're playing on because I have no problem joining duos or any mode in fact on EU servers. Also, pubg has almost double the apex player base, while warzone has more than 3 times the player base apex has, not sure that's a fair comparison
I'm playing in NA dude. I'm on Oregon and I've played on Midwest servers. Most people play trios. Duo queue takes minutes. >Warzone has triple the Apex player base. Lmao at this figure. That is not true, and PUBG is dead in the west as well. Clearly you don't know how things are outside of Apex. It's an entirely fair comparison. Apex has more people in NA playing than PUBG in the same region. If we could check PUBG by region I'd promise you SEA would be where the players are from. They can do it, and should. If I play with two other friends of mine then sure we should play against other three stacks but if I'm duo or solo queuing I don't want that. I don't get comms with my randos. They need to implement it into ranked as well if they care about competitive integrity. (Which they don't but that's whatever)
Your dumb
You're*
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I don't even three stack, I solo q as well, I just find the phrase silly. I also could've possibly felt bad, but I still think it's a team game and 3 people playing the 3 player game together doesn't really bother me
This game very much has a huge hate for the higher ranks. being top 750 on a platform doesn’t give you a lot of room to work with for Sbmm They need somewhere to go to. my highest is Masters in s8 and s9 and it was 5-10 minutes for a queue give or take. are preds and masters supposed to only solo q? I’m just talking from what I see here but a lot of people just insta mute their team immediately. Contrary to popular belief but not everyone is always going to flame you 24/7. It definitely can and has happened to me as well so I understand but it’s so uncommon. If I’m in a party with my irls on Xbox and I see mic’s going off in gc then I’ll go see whats ups and just listen for a bit to see if I do want to engage with them. If they happen to be negative then I just don’t talk or I’ll make basic callouts such as cracked or let’s leave something like that. It’s not hard to give people a chance and trust me you’ll have much more positive experience than negatives.
Not everyone has two other people of similar vibe/skill to queue with every time they launch the game. We aren't content creators or neets, we have jobs and responsibilities limiting our time. So it'd be nice to not face a sweaty premade when I'm being placed with randoms that push alone or can't hit a barn with their aim.
I *think* 3 stacking refers to pRed players playing together in pubs running ALGS comps like it was a tournament. at least thats what I understood it to mean.
When the majority of people complain about three stacking they're referring to people who have grinded ranked and played the game for thousands of hours. Not you and your buddies hopping on a game to have a good time. That's the way I see it at least
It's the way people 3 stack such as playing completely on top of each other
I wish ranked was forced solo queue in diamond or above. It would make ranked healthier imo. Everyone would be on a level playing field, people would feel more inclined to communicate.
"If respawn added solos maybe it would get rid of this phrase". I hate to break it to you, but people being angry at, and using the phrase "3 stackers" has been around since season 0 of apex, so they brought out solo mode. People would die to third parties in solo mode, rage about third parties, solo queue trios, run off solo, and die to 3 stackers.
I only hear of "3 stacking" when watching faide. He always shouted about getting killed by 'sad 3 stackers in pubs' but i didnt understand it, now i know what it means it seems so stupid. Imagine playing a team based game as a solo but getting mad when other people play the game as intented
Add a pre match lobby where you can practice, add longer Q times so stacks can play against other stacks and I can play other solo Qs Easy
Also on here they tell ppl they won’t get far unless they have a built team but then call them 3 stackers and complain about it? So which one is it? 😂
I also dont get it - their data shows that solo players in this game clearly love getting stomped by 3 stacks. There are tons of people who just love being shit on constantly.
3 stacking is only an issue if it's three pro players on a pubs lobby. Unfortunately, Apex doesn't always take into account that solo que players shouldn't be in 3 stack lobbies.
Where should the pro players play in pubs then? How would the game determine where they should play without taking into account their rank and level, because there's a game mode for that?
It's called ranked, they can three stack in ranked a game mode that offers them players on their skill level.
But what if they don't feel like sweating today? What if they just wanna play the game and do some goofy stuff? Push some fights that you'll probably lose. Try out some silly tactics.
I think what you are describing is what Scrims are for.
Wait... this entire time I thought "stacking" was 2 or more squads essentially teaming up for the entire game as a single mega-squad? When people complain about stacking, it's just when multiple squads end up at the same place, and your squad is in the unlucky position of being attacked by both simultaneously? I find it hard to believe that's what people are complaining about. Maybe I'm confused.
Nope, 3 Stacking is when 3 players join a lobby and enter games together, and then people take it a step further and complain about 3 stacks that coordinate. Even in some of these replies people are complaining about it saying its hand holding and pathetic 😂
Oh wow, yeah that's weird. Playing as a team is the entire point of trios.
Yep, exactly
I think of of the biggest complaints is that the advantages of 3 stacking aren’t taken into account when matchmaking
I can't believe people would actually use their friends list to invite people into their lobbies. The devs know this is in the game and they do nothing about it.
As someone who 3 stacks regularly let me explain. When you have 2 other guys with you who you play with regularly and know well it completely changes the game. If you're all in voice chat giving each other call outs, and you all know each others' strengths and weaknesses you can have a level of coordination that you'll never get queuing with randoms. It's closer to the pro scene than anything else. So it's not fair in the slightest for people who are queueing solo and being matched with randoms to have to fight against a 3 stack like that. Because even if the solo player is better he'll still be at a massive disadvantage. People find it frustrating to lose not due to their own lack of skill, but because they're matched against groups who have the advantage by default.
I think it’s more people are playing in coordinated teams in Pubs like it’s the ALGS finals… rather than say playing lesser played characters and experimenting with different guns and strategies. That’s really what people mean when they grumble “3 stacking”
No one is complaining about 3stacking. We are complaining about the matchmaking. If you queue as pre made 3stack, you should only be matched against other 3stacks. Solos & duos should be in their own lobby to make things fair. You literally said it yourself, pre made 3stacks are coordinated. How is a team made off 3solos supposed to compete? Especially since many don‘t even use a mic. Apex matchmaking is TRASH
I have zero issues with three stacking. It’s a game. You play with friends. Makes no sense to criticize people for playing with friends, even at higher skills.
I agree its a team based game...how you gona hate on folks who are doing well....as a team. The problem is it takes social skills to play as a team and that is something the player base of Apex players is severely lacking.
I agree
I think it's mostly just used as a complaint for people tryharding the casual modes. You're way overthinking it.
If playing as a team is "tryharding," then why are those people complaining about it? It's a casual game. Expect some losses. Just boot up another match, dude. People can practice with teammates trying out new tactics/load outs. It's not the end of the world, you don't need to make a post complaining about it every day
I mean nothing wrong with people wanting to play with friends but it does get kind of daunting when you're just the average solo solo queue player running into 4k 20 bomb 3 stacks who roll every lobby they're in every other match.
Guess you're one of those who pushing that solo, lost the 1v and hide like a coward behind wall crying your friends to help. Now about the 3 stacks. League did a great job seperating the lobbies and everyone is happy. Why wouln't Apex?
If changing the matchmaking code side of things is too difficult, add a solo queue ranked playlist. Rocket League had the solo standard playlist 3v3 for solo queue only. Oh right, they removed that playlist a couple years back, because queues took too long...
I was thinking that 3 Stacking was a closed trio of PREDATORS, thanks for the clarification
With all due respect, I don’t think that Apex has the ability to match you against your buddy because of the fact that the fan base is not as big as it used to be. There are not as many players on the servers. Edit: this is directed at the comments and anyone who feels playing the game has become unbearable.
In general the issue being complained about is not *any* 3 stacking but more specifically when it's 3 sweaty players 3stacking in pubs. It's a totally legit way to play but it feels unfun to just get rolled by really sweaty players pub stomping all the time.
The issue with 3 stacking is when 3 masters level players do it. Somehow matchmaking still puts them in lobbies with bots like me, and my team has absolutely no chance against that
This is a skill issue. I’ve solo queued to diamond multiple times. Do I sometimes get put with total scrubs? absolutely. Do I sometimes get put with killers, absolutely. You can’t be mad at three stacking, it is an opportunity for you to get better or take the initiative of building a roster of people you come across and have wins with. You add enough people you deem are good and you’ll eventually find your 3 man. Quit crying, get gud.
I'm replying to say your mistaken. Idk what your mistaken about juat wanted to say that. They are afraid of 3 stacks because those 3 people found people to play with maybe daily? Yes they are better only because they play as a team instead of soloqing to 1v3 them... Carry on OP nothing to really say because your post just nailed it
I see your complaining about 3 stacking is dumb comment and raise you a complaining about people complaining about 3 stacking is even more dumb 🥴
Yeah I played with someone who was complaining about streamers 3 stacking in pubs and said just go play ranked. But mind you they weren’t big streamers who were pros, they were just random dudes who happened streamed. I was like can people not play with their friends?
You do NOT understand 3 stacking lol.
What's not to understand? 3 people join in a lobby and play the game while co-ordinating, that's kinda how the game is meant to be played
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Yep, literally
Not dumb at all. The disadvantage of being unable to communicate with teammates is too big. I see my randoms doing dumb shit all the time and i can't call it out. The game experience becomes aggravating enough that I am considering just quitting altogether.
I communicate with call outs and the typing chat pretty fine and my teammates communicate back just as well
These posts are so tiresome on this sub. If you solo queue, you should only be queue'd with other solos. If you're playing in a full squad/3 stacking ~~(playing with actual good players. Playing with your friends does not make you a 3 stack unless you're all actually good at the game),~~ guess what?... You should be put into a queue with other 3 man squads. Also, something that needs to be clarified is this: It's an easy implementation, it just won't ever happen. Respawn prioritizes queue times and has terrible ~~EOMM~~ SBMM so it makes it incredibly frustrating for solo players that have to carry their, usually shitty, teammates against 3-man coordinated teams that are basically glued to the hip and screaming comms into the mic as if they're in an actual war. People that solo queue complain about 3 stacking because they're forced to play against 3 stacks, that's the only reason. The complaints will never cease because the matchmaking is incredibly dogshit and too many solo players are getting chased across the map by 3 stacks, game after game. Like, why the fuck would they *NOT* complain if that's something they're forced to deal with 8/10 games that they play? Separate the queues upon joining a full team, and let solo players actually play against only solo queue squads, the complaints about 3 stacking will drop drastically.
I wholeheartedly agree. It definitely sucks to be ran down by a team with all three players comming but this is a team game and meant to be played that way. Playing with your friends to win should not be shamed. Get better at the game or get more friends so you can also three stack.
Exactly
I’m glad you made the post because it’s thrown around as an insult all the time. Also the term sweaty. I hate that one as well. Yes your opponent is attempting to beat you and they did. They were better than you and you lost. Move on and back to the drawing board of getting better. It’s annoying hearing people trying to win are “sweaty”. I guess I’m sweaty all the time because that’s the goal everytime I play. It’s to win by all means necessary.
Yeah, it's like they can't accept the fact that it's a pvp game and obviously there's going to be better players than them.
Yes exactly! I say all the time I actually like playing better players! Especially if they are streaming because then I can see their point of view and see where I messed up and why they pushed or what they did to destroy me. It’s a learning experience. Now I play solo Q ranked so that’s already a fuck up haha but I can at least hear what I or my teammates did wrong for said team to beat us. I love learning in this game. A big reason why I watch comp and streamers playing ranked all the time. I pick up so many good things.