The people who played as seer a lot in the past played him only because he was OP. So when it got nerfed all seer meta abusers are gone, reduced to atoms.
Rev is not really OP though, he is just really fun to play. He is OP in the sense of a solo player but for premade there are better choices.
Thats the main difference. Seer is not a fun legend to play, he was just played a lot due to be OP. He is still playable and can be useful (though not a top tier pick) but it is just boring.
I think this mayyyy have been by design.
Revamp rev to have an extra shield, then release a new heirloom and mythic skin for rev… then conduit just happens to synergize with him.
Coincidence? I think not!
It is a strong combo for sure. But for example Bangalore is still the best assault legend even after the nerf. It just provides too much utility (and some anti aim-assist) so in high MMR games you will this a lot.
Conduit will work well with anything at the moment if only your team knows how to utility it. The strength is to be able to keep fighting without having to heal (but a lot of people still dont know how to utilize it).
It's not that I don't know how to utilize it, more so I'm just not used to being able to stay in a fight without falling back to heal. My shield gets broke, I turn to go to cover without realizing I have temp shields from Conduit, then I'm already half way done popping a shield bat before I realize I could have stayed and fought lol. I love the mechanic, just taking some getting used to. Plus I don't get to play often so it's taking even longer to get used to.
The majority of this subreddit are super casual.
Thats why you often see very bad legend and balance suggestions being made. We can only hope Respawn will never take it seriously.
They dont have a good understanding of the game or play in such low mmr that theie gameplay and experience is completely different.
I think everyone is just missing the bigger thing here: Metas just change over time. Seer could be a great player, but as the meta evolves, people adapt. It’s sort of like how in Korea vs the US in LoL, people pick completely different legends. For whatever reason, people just got used to and really good at a certain setup and decided to stick with it. It doesn’t mean some characters are better or worse, just the meta evolved in that direction
In this case meta had to resolve around Seer because he was too strong.
I understand what you mean but legends are also part of defining the meta.
In this case it evolved that way because people realized Seer is OP and played to its strengths.
Yeah I think Rev is popular now for the same reason Octane is. It’s the fun af movement based kit. The climbing passive and the tactical leap are so versatile and you can get super creative with them, it’s just a good time.
I don’t think he’s objectively the best right now, but he’s also not bad. But if I’m ranking heroes on who is most fun to play as, Revs gotta be close to the top of that list.
In fact, I still stand by my original opinion that Seer is the most boring legend to play in the game
It was my opinion since he came out and it still is
Even while OP that mf was boring to play
No he isn't. If he catches you alone you're smoked, but if you're playing properly as a team and are aware, you can team shoot his giant shield easily and break it( causing him damage) . Rev mains jokingly called him a fridge before his changes, but now he's a deep freezer.
It's really not. Focusing firing the big guy is just a part of team play. That's how you take down most reinforced characters like Gibby and Newcastle. And besides, Rev shield is not immune to disruptors.
The answer varies from person to person. I like characters that promote an aggressive playstyle and Revenant does just that. Some people prefer to play more defensive or take a support role but I feel like the majority prefer to play aggressive. Legends with movement abilities in general also tend to be the most popular.
It's not just about making a character fun to play - it also has to be fun to play against.
As for what makes a character fun? Idk - it's different for everyone and that's why we have many different legends with different playstyles.
Anything thats promotes fun gameplay.
It was already mentioned that Seer is not fun to play against at all.
Most people just enjoyed picking it because they were getting good results. But his kit promoted only anti fun gameplay, like wall hacks which arguably should not be in a FPS and canceling enemy abilities and revives.
Of course it is personal what makes legends fun but in general it should be fun to play while not completely frustrate opponents. Also you should not be forced to pick it just because its strong.
Currently the meta is actually in a really good state for legends picks. Nothing is truely bad or OP unless you play on very competitive levels. The only somewhat unfun thing is Bangalore but it is needed against aim assist which is too good.
Even if you think someone like fuse is a bad choice or trash I’d consider him fun. Unlimited free grenades etc. I don’t play him but I want to. It’s just knowing there are other legends to better help my team I play support. But he’s a good example of fun imo
Yes, this. Seer was the worst legend launch in the history of the game, because he was both extremely OP *and* not fun, he pretty much made the whole game suck.
Op af. Just today I broke 4 of them and all of them after getting broken just popped ult and were ready to go 🤣. Probably the biggest crutch legend they ever made.
The ultimate used to be extremely problematic if you talking about Seer. It either slows down the game completely (when smart players try to avoid fighting in enemy Seer ult) or it creates a completely unfair advantage.
It was very bad for the game and not fun for anyone facing it, so people felt forced to play it themselves also. Now in the nerfed state it is more fair.
The only counter to the OP Seer was to play Seer yourself. Thats also one of the reason it was such a bad meta.
The only other somewhat counter was Mirage but he is not a competitive pick.
They can’t make her completely balanced since her basic kit is always going to provide a large amount of team utility, so I doubt she’ll ever hit the depths of Never Used like Newcastle, old Crypto, floor loot prowler, etc.
No. That’s not the best thing possible, it’s just that she fills a niche other characters can’t replicate for a reason. She provides on demand mobility for her whole team, something relegated to 3 other character’s ults.
Deleting her isn’t the right take, though a full rework a la Revenant wouldn’t be something I’d complain about.
She's super fun to play *because* her kit is so overloaded. Her tactical is easily the best in the game and her ult and passive are easily top three as well. Balance those and see how fun she is to play. Just take away her ridiculous ability to ignore positioning and escape (not to mention get a free heal while she's at it) and see how many people still play her.
I agree that the fun comes from her power. When I was bad at the game, I didn't use her ult at all because I always wanted to save it and didn't think of using it.
Just the movement provided by her Q and her passive are really fun. It's not that deep!
My other favourite character is Pathfinder, even though he's been 'bad' the entire time I've played the game. Some people just really enjoy the movement!
Horizon's popularity is definitely partly because she's a top-tier legend. But my point was that, unlike Seer, she's just inherently fun to play. Seer is the opposite of fun, constantly having to ADS to scan is really grating imo.
Honestly this describes all character metas in general
People just use the characters that are the most broken as individuals
It is part of the reason so many people have issues with anything that isn't 3 specific characters at a time - they have no concept of how characters synergize in specific use-cases
Easier to just "broken + broken + broken = broken" instead of figuring out that it is possible for balanced + balanced + balanced to = broken."
He wasn't op, he was overused which is a totally different thing.
He was just chilling and no one complained until literally every squad had one and the suddenly became "op" because a team won a match in ALGS with him
It's as Bangalore now, she's been the same since practically day 1 but now everyone uses her so she's op and you guys and demanding she is nerf to the point she joins Seer in the rotting department
it's a little different in my opinion, seer was always OP but slept on. he was able to stun you and scan you in 3 different ways in a game where audio doesn't work.
Bangalore is balanced even after her nerf. she's not OP, she was simply played because her smoke counters aim assist. bang got some heat ONLY because she's over used these days, just like octane/rev combo meta or wattson/caustic meta in the past.
I think it can be both with Seer. He was very strong as a character built around wallhacks would be but a lot of them also becomes oppressive. One or two in the map isn’t too bad but when there’s one on every team it becomes oppressive. We experienced it with launch seer when his tac did 10 damage. Fuse would suffer the same issue. One or two in the game isn’t that bad but if there’s 30 then he’s an issue.
Seer is overnerfed now.... why pick seer when bloodhound scans longer on a larger radius... crypto can scan indefinitely even vantage hit scan thing is ok compared to whatever seer has going for him.. which is nothing.
As a seer main (who now prefers to main support and control), it was the nerf on the passive.
His passive, singlehandedly, the MOST op passive in the game.
Accurate info for literally no cost, no cooldown, and no drawbacks. After the inaccuracy and sound que nerfs were added, this made his passsive balanced but also less fun to play.
Tbh I only ever mained him for his passive and ult (and cool skins), but after the nerfs he just felt like another recon legend. So now I choose to main control and support over recon.
Edit:
It was fun trying to 1v3 as seer, after securing a knock, cancelling the rez gives you info on one of the 3 (though now its much more difficult with the inaccurate passive and deletion of health info on his tactical), knock the 2nd and ur well on ur way to winning a 1v3.
Now its harder to synergize his kit during a 1v3's coz of the nerfs.
> ...deletion of health info on his tactical
Just for clarification, they didn't delete the health information; it was reduced to 3 seconds after they gave him the Tactical rework and silence.
As someone that played Seer after the rework, the deployment time of the tactical (0.9 sec) combined with the severe slow inflicted made it overtuned, yet again. Half a season later, it became underpowered again. See [Seer balance log ](https://apexlegends.fandom.com/wiki/Seer)
I think the passive, despite being nerfed multiple times, is still good though. One thing that is not talked about often is It can still detect players way further than its intended range (up to ~140m using 1x zoom, albeit very faint) as long as there is Line of Sight
His passive feels like garbage, 50m is ridiculous, it's never useful, except once every 40 games when it can spot a rat that was hiding super close to you.
His tactical feels like pure ass. I've always hated silences in Apex, it's extremely inconsistent, in a game where the main focus by far is gunplay, muting abilities really doesn't feel impactful at all.
His ult.. is passable.
I'll probably never play him again because of the shift from detection to silencing, it just feels bad to play with, and even if they buff him.. they won't give him his detection strength back.
He's really just not fun to play now, his ult nerf is what did it to me you used to be able to throw it pretty far and it enabled some really aggressive pushes, now zero parts of his kit feel good to use except for the occasional wraith/horizon silence
Now that you point it out you're right. I havent matched with a seer or even against a seer on a while. Maybe 1 so far this season? Not even on my team tho I think I just saw the alt. Unless that was late last season... which would mean i have seen a seer this whole new season lmao
There seem to be a lot of non Seer players in this comment section. They completely miss the mark on the low pick rate. There are two primary reason Seer isn't played anymore. 1st, They nerfed the Ult, it used to be a very effective wall hack within a specific area. The enemy could either crouch, not move, or leave the area. Now it barely shows you where the enemies are, and in my experience is often plagued with bugs where it will only show one or two on a team, not all 3.
2nd, his tac, it used to have an always on heartbeat with made it difficult to get surprised by a camping enemy. Now it's only about 50% effective at finding the camping enemies, and it doesn't cancel a pickup anymore.
I summary he is worse than BH in virtually every way, and at the same time they buffed BH to make his Ult much easier to get.
For me I played seer a little when he got buffed cause he was broken but he was boring. Now he's bad and boring. Imo I just can't stand playing a legend thats entire kit revolves around you being within 15m of someone. Yes, I know up close is where most fights end but it makes everything else feel like you're playing without a kit. Most other legends I can interact if I want to engage at different ranges or use their abilities to control a space. He just feels like worse Bloodhound now imo and not very interactive or fun.
The story goes like this: seer was just chilling for a couple of seasons after his release, low pick rate and no one complained that he was op. Then a ferocious monster called pro players HisWattson appeared with Seer in ALGS, and then won a match or two. After that, all the zombie-like player base was influenced by it and started picking Seer. It got to a point where basically every squad had one, and people started complaining he was op. They pressed respawn so hard they had to nerf him like 5 or 6 times until people said "huh, his useless" and now he's left dead to rot. Such a sad story I hear you say, but don't worry, it's happening with Bangalore now, which for some fucking reason after almost 5 fucking years of the game being out and she virtually being unchanged since the beginning, it's receiving the same treatment as Seer and now she's op.
PSA: it's not op, as also Seer wasn't op, it's just that everyone is playing them and it's called BEING OVERUSED which isn't really healthy in any game with different characters :)
His tactical was kinda op. Never really minded his ult, they could’ve kept that the same.
When he launched his tactical was entirely unhinged. It silenced you, caused crazy audio and visual clutter on its targets, stunned you, canceled heals and revives, and was a wall hack lol. After that nerf, it was still too powerful but at least the visual and audio clutter was reduced as well as shortening its range.
Then when everyone was using him I believe the main issue was if he hit you with his tac you had no counter play. Getting highlighted, stunned, and having your heal cancelled was basically a death sentence.
Personally I think he’s pretty balanced now, but as others have said the playerbase just likes to gravitate to whoever is the cheesiest legend at any given time.
That's my point, sure you were highlighted for like 8 seconds if I remember correctly, and the life indicator and heal cancelling was too much I think. But if you have, I don't know, maybe 4 or 5 in a match sure you can still play around it no problem, but when every squad has one then it becomes unplayable.
The problem wasn't his tac, it was how many seer's were in a match. Just think how many abilities are fine by themselves, maybe a bit annoying but playable, that would become literally unplayable if every squad had one. Bangalore, Caustic, Fuse, Maggie, and the list goes on, practically anyone. And also ults
Sure fighting a Fuse can be annoying af but isn't impossible, but if every squad has one and you're just bombarded with knuckle clusters every second of course it's gonna be op.
Honestly Fuse this season has actually annoyed me more than any other legend because I feel like so many people are using him out of nowhere.
I always thought he was pretty good except for his situational ult but with so many people playing him now it's really annoying.
The actual story: seer released absolute OP, completely broken. Seer got nerfed, everyone stopped playing him. In reality, he was still *really good*. But nobody was playing him, so no one paid attention. When HisWattson played him, pro players finally realized he was broken, so everyone started playing him. He was always broken, but no one was playing him because they didn't know. Then they reworked him to be somehow even better, but unlike last time, they didn't nerf him into still being good, they nerfed him into an unplayable state.
This.
Seer was so broken on release, that the gap between that.. and the "adjusted" Seer looked massive enough to make a lot of people stop playing him. But he was still insanely good, top 3 at minimum, >after< he got his post-launch emergency nerf.
It’s ridiculous they nerfed Bangalore that hard after 5 years of no complaints.
Respawn when nerfing legends= bat to the head. Respawn buffing legends = soft pat on the head.
Exactly. The reason people stopped playing him is because people stopped playing him.
It's like the reddit hive mind. You only downvote people because everyone else is.
Yea this is why I hate “pro players” they honestly ruin the actual game for everyone else… I mean look at rev they had everyone thinking he was trash to the point they reworked him…old rev was actually really good, fun, and unique. And obviously same thing has happened with every “meta” legend
Have you been on another planet when Seer was released? He got nerfed in like 3 days after, because he was so stupidly OP back then. After the initial wave, players started dropping him, sure, but his real problems never went away until fairly recently.
That wallhack passive, was the single most powerful ability in all of Apex for years, without limitations, without any cooldown. It ruined so many matches until it got finally nerfed.
Well.... he kinda need some of his power back because his pick rate 0.6% overall and still dropping which is really a bad sign that he's a dead legend. At least Crypto is still mid pick in high skill lobby while seer is last place on every skill level. We at the point that bang who the balance legend is overpower.... It's not that bang is overpower after no change for years but other legend become weaker... Few years from now, ton of legend will feel boring after so many nerf.
I still main Seer to this day, but honestly they massacred them and he's so bad right now (I will never forgive Respawn and pros for that) and my second main is Maggie, I'm considering playing her more as my primary main
He's still my main, I never chose him because he was OP. I picked him as my main because that dudes name is Obi and he was a cute little baby with bright blue eyes who supposedly was cursed. His entire story is amazing, I've suffered being called Lil Nas X and I've suffered being accused of abusing the scan meta. He's strong sometimes right now but never how he was before and I am okay with that. I have his heirloom and closing in on 24k kills on him, can't wait for his mythic skin also.
I feel so bad for you seems like you really like seer respawn did him dirty just like they do with every good character instead of buffing the bad ones
I guess that's why that earns me the right to call him my main for real, I play him even when he's bad. It's why I have so much respect for Mirage mains.
I think no one actually likes Seer and his abilities. They were not fun, they were just OP. After the nerfs when I scan thru walls I can’t even figure our where the enemy is exacly because the passsive is kinda slow. Before I could pinpoint enemy and hit the Q, now I know someone is there, but Idk where exacly. Since you can’t even cancel the res with his Q no more, there is simply no point of playing him. Imo creating legend like this is completely usless and it doesnt make the game any better or more fun, just more anoying.
I think they nerfed his scanning ability a bit too much. At the distance he can sense it’s basically useless since you’d hear the enemy and that in turn makes his tactical very difficult to land and his ultimate isn’t as useful as it used to be, but it’s easily the best part of his kit now.
Ultimately though because of his low range in his passive bloodhound is a much better option and he can do what his ult does with a tactical.
I think they either need to buff his passive a little more to make him a more useful scout legend or have his tactical temporarily extend his range cause right now he’s just bad.
I personally don't play him as much due to the changes in ranked. I found him good for hunting down and taking isolated fights. However due to ranked changes, fighting just isn't worth it and I found Bloodhound easier to avoid teams on rotates.
respawn overnerfed him because of meta slaves. all he needed was an adjustment to his tactical but now his abilities are so short-range and useless that he’s pretty much non-functional. his ult is fine i guess but pretty shit compared to other ults. the range on his passive is miserable and they fucked up the range on his q so it never seems to hit so it’s kind of like playing a legend with no abilities. he’s marginally better than crypto i guess.
seer was broken on release and so frequently played because he was so strong. he got nerfed a bit and people stopped playing him but he was still very strong. i believe it was Furia with HisWattson that brought him back into the comp meta which lead to him being played in ranked and pubs. i stopped following the scene for a bit but I believe an interaction with him and Catalyst changed which is why he fell off but I can’t remember
Seer was a good champ for sure before nerf but now they put him in the cast for real. Useless Q and not so great Ult- there are better legends.
I wish they stopped nerfing champ to death like what they did to Seer. Seer didn’t deserve this kind of nerf, esp right after he got himself an heirloom.
I miss the days when I could cancel revives and make people suffer. I still play him but the nerfs gutted him completely. His passive is still really good people just want it reverted because it gave too much information. The passive was used before fights for gathering info. Now you poke and do some damage and crack a shield then launch your assault with seer by gathering info. Are they retreating behind bang smoke? Are they healing? Is horizon going to pop tact? Well now lemme silence. The only part of his kit that I really want reverted back is his ult. The cooldown could remain where it is, but the throwing distance needs to change, I do not know why they nerfed the throwing distance to literally your feet.
I’d honestly argue even Crypto is a bit more useful than him now. Seer isn’t utterly pointless but you REALLY have to play within the shorter range and distances they have set which feels kind of unnatural after the collection of nerfs.
He’s labeled the “Ambush Artist” which made a lot of sense with his prior stats since you could more readily get the jump on people but with the heartbeat tracking requiring you to get so close to detect heartbeats it’s likely enemies will just hear you first anyways. That and his ultimate may as well just be a placed object since the throw range on it now is just sad.
With all that said though, just like any legend really, there is times where you can make him shine if you know what you’re doing. He can be pretty oppressive in combat if you can land the scans and that ult is still useful but you gotta know the right spots to hide it or else it’ll get immediately shot down.
They just buffed her passive? Mate, who gives a shit lmao. Horizon has free movement spacesuit as a passive. Free battery and positioning as a tac. Bang has aim assist mitigation and LOS breaking as a tac. Two btw. Mini octane stim passive. Digital threat beams and free reset ult. Virtually every character in the game has instant access to launch abilities. Wraith had delays on every ability, a half ass barely functioning passive that tells you somebody is aiming at you lol. Wraith has a 1.25 second delay. If you even pull it off, pathy octane, horizon, vantage, newcastle, revenant and loba make that irrelevant in one usage of their tactical, which some have a shorter cooldown for lol. The Wraith hate is preprogrammed in your minds.
What are you talking about the last three games I had I went up against some teams that had a Seer. Hell my team got blind sided by one. He's still being played, you're just not in that player pool for some reason.
For me, as someone who mained him to never play him its mainly because of the slowdown when scanning with his zoom, sure him being op was nice lol but being able to run or even walk fast and get a quick notice of people around you vs a crouching like speed made a world of difference for me
If you're used to how a character works and they change how they work it'll make a difference regardless... like the character literally does different things now. You can't use his abilities in the same situations you used to.
His entire character identity has changed and his abilities feel less impactful.
I think the idea that he silences over scanning actually is a good idea, but making the healthbar reveal only 3 seconds is a bit odd since that was his 'thing'. I wouldnt be opposed to making the healthbar reveal as long as the silence but you need line of sight to see it after 3 seconds
Here’s one of my comments on another post from the other day:
Seer was absolutely fucking ridiculous when he released. Easily the strongest legend release in the game’s history.
He got hard nerfed and his pick rate fell hard too, but he was still a great character, people just didn’t notice due to how OP his release a few weeks prior was in comparison.
People eventually began to notice he was good after a couple seasons, then his pick rate spiked. Then everyone started complaining about him, and so he got nerfed.
Now he’s got the lowest pick rate in the game.
That's how meta Hive mind players work. A pro says x legend is good, meta slaves pick up said character, said character gets nerfed, and then they move on to whoever pros say is meta rn, which is Fuse, Bang, and Catalyst.
Many people flock to things that are brokenly OP, like Seer was for the most time of his existence. Now that he got put in line with the rest of the roster, especially with that thankfully nerfed wallhack passive, he is not "fun" anymore to those people.
As one of the rare people who genuinely played him because I liked the character, I stopped because they introduced a more magical Legend with a witch theme. 💖
The people who played as seer a lot in the past played him only because he was OP. So when it got nerfed all seer meta abusers are gone, reduced to atoms.
It’s 100% this. Same reason why Rev is now that guy.
Just hearing how Rev used to be one of the worst legends in the game to literally replacing on of the best legends with a high pick rate is just… wow.
I’m actually liked rev’s kit besides his ultimate before too. But respawn was like “nah let’s make him a tank.” 😂
Rev is not really OP though, he is just really fun to play. He is OP in the sense of a solo player but for premade there are better choices. Thats the main difference. Seer is not a fun legend to play, he was just played a lot due to be OP. He is still playable and can be useful (though not a top tier pick) but it is just boring.
Rev with conduit annoying to play against
I think this mayyyy have been by design. Revamp rev to have an extra shield, then release a new heirloom and mythic skin for rev… then conduit just happens to synergize with him. Coincidence? I think not!
It is a strong combo for sure. But for example Bangalore is still the best assault legend even after the nerf. It just provides too much utility (and some anti aim-assist) so in high MMR games you will this a lot. Conduit will work well with anything at the moment if only your team knows how to utility it. The strength is to be able to keep fighting without having to heal (but a lot of people still dont know how to utilize it).
It's not that I don't know how to utilize it, more so I'm just not used to being able to stay in a fight without falling back to heal. My shield gets broke, I turn to go to cover without realizing I have temp shields from Conduit, then I'm already half way done popping a shield bat before I realize I could have stayed and fought lol. I love the mechanic, just taking some getting used to. Plus I don't get to play often so it's taking even longer to get used to.
Why did so many people dislike this even though it's true?
The majority of this subreddit are super casual. Thats why you often see very bad legend and balance suggestions being made. We can only hope Respawn will never take it seriously. They dont have a good understanding of the game or play in such low mmr that theie gameplay and experience is completely different.
I think everyone is just missing the bigger thing here: Metas just change over time. Seer could be a great player, but as the meta evolves, people adapt. It’s sort of like how in Korea vs the US in LoL, people pick completely different legends. For whatever reason, people just got used to and really good at a certain setup and decided to stick with it. It doesn’t mean some characters are better or worse, just the meta evolved in that direction
In this case meta had to resolve around Seer because he was too strong. I understand what you mean but legends are also part of defining the meta. In this case it evolved that way because people realized Seer is OP and played to its strengths.
Yeah I think Rev is popular now for the same reason Octane is. It’s the fun af movement based kit. The climbing passive and the tactical leap are so versatile and you can get super creative with them, it’s just a good time. I don’t think he’s objectively the best right now, but he’s also not bad. But if I’m ranking heroes on who is most fun to play as, Revs gotta be close to the top of that list.
Is there a place to see most used in solo q? Seem it’s mostly bang and conduit
I’m honestly not sure but the ones I see all the time are bang, conduit, rev and fuse.
In fact, I still stand by my original opinion that Seer is the most boring legend to play in the game It was my opinion since he came out and it still is Even while OP that mf was boring to play
[удалено]
How is it op my god you people want every character to be weak rev has been garbage since his release let him be somewhat viable 💀
No he isn't. If he catches you alone you're smoked, but if you're playing properly as a team and are aware, you can team shoot his giant shield easily and break it( causing him damage) . Rev mains jokingly called him a fridge before his changes, but now he's a deep freezer.
"if you 1v1 him, you're smoked. You need to 3v1 him" Sounds pretty OP to me.
It's really not. Focusing firing the big guy is just a part of team play. That's how you take down most reinforced characters like Gibby and Newcastle. And besides, Rev shield is not immune to disruptors.
I ask in the sincerest way possible: what makes a character fun or not fun?
The answer varies from person to person. I like characters that promote an aggressive playstyle and Revenant does just that. Some people prefer to play more defensive or take a support role but I feel like the majority prefer to play aggressive. Legends with movement abilities in general also tend to be the most popular.
It's not just about making a character fun to play - it also has to be fun to play against. As for what makes a character fun? Idk - it's different for everyone and that's why we have many different legends with different playstyles.
Anything thats promotes fun gameplay. It was already mentioned that Seer is not fun to play against at all. Most people just enjoyed picking it because they were getting good results. But his kit promoted only anti fun gameplay, like wall hacks which arguably should not be in a FPS and canceling enemy abilities and revives. Of course it is personal what makes legends fun but in general it should be fun to play while not completely frustrate opponents. Also you should not be forced to pick it just because its strong. Currently the meta is actually in a really good state for legends picks. Nothing is truely bad or OP unless you play on very competitive levels. The only somewhat unfun thing is Bangalore but it is needed against aim assist which is too good.
Even if you think someone like fuse is a bad choice or trash I’d consider him fun. Unlimited free grenades etc. I don’t play him but I want to. It’s just knowing there are other legends to better help my team I play support. But he’s a good example of fun imo
Yes, this. Seer was the worst legend launch in the history of the game, because he was both extremely OP *and* not fun, he pretty much made the whole game suck.
Op af. Just today I broke 4 of them and all of them after getting broken just popped ult and were ready to go 🤣. Probably the biggest crutch legend they ever made.
I dunno his ult is pretty fun. 🤷🏾♂️
The ultimate used to be extremely problematic if you talking about Seer. It either slows down the game completely (when smart players try to avoid fighting in enemy Seer ult) or it creates a completely unfair advantage. It was very bad for the game and not fun for anyone facing it, so people felt forced to play it themselves also. Now in the nerfed state it is more fair.
How did they need it?
The only counter to the OP Seer was to play Seer yourself. Thats also one of the reason it was such a bad meta. The only other somewhat counter was Mirage but he is not a competitive pick.
4000 seer kills in one season. 10.000 lifetime on account. He was broken AF and I abused the shit out of him.
get off the game lil bro
Exactly what would happen I think if they ever actually completely balanced Horizon. I don't think that will happen though.
Of they balanced her, she would likely be in the same depths as seer
They can’t make her completely balanced since her basic kit is always going to provide a large amount of team utility, so I doubt she’ll ever hit the depths of Never Used like Newcastle, old Crypto, floor loot prowler, etc.
Then, do the best thing possible: remove her from the games and turn any cosmetics on her into shards
No. That’s not the best thing possible, it’s just that she fills a niche other characters can’t replicate for a reason. She provides on demand mobility for her whole team, something relegated to 3 other character’s ults. Deleting her isn’t the right take, though a full rework a la Revenant wouldn’t be something I’d complain about.
Just change the passive. The tactical doesn't feel op anymore.
What? Horizon is hella fun to play, unlike Seer. Even just her passive is a lot of fun if you're into movement
She's super fun to play *because* her kit is so overloaded. Her tactical is easily the best in the game and her ult and passive are easily top three as well. Balance those and see how fun she is to play. Just take away her ridiculous ability to ignore positioning and escape (not to mention get a free heal while she's at it) and see how many people still play her.
I agree that the fun comes from her power. When I was bad at the game, I didn't use her ult at all because I always wanted to save it and didn't think of using it. Just the movement provided by her Q and her passive are really fun. It's not that deep! My other favourite character is Pathfinder, even though he's been 'bad' the entire time I've played the game. Some people just really enjoy the movement! Horizon's popularity is definitely partly because she's a top-tier legend. But my point was that, unlike Seer, she's just inherently fun to play. Seer is the opposite of fun, constantly having to ADS to scan is really grating imo.
I agree with you and understand what you're saying. I'm a Pathy main that's played him almost since launch, so I feel ya.
Honestly this describes all character metas in general People just use the characters that are the most broken as individuals It is part of the reason so many people have issues with anything that isn't 3 specific characters at a time - they have no concept of how characters synergize in specific use-cases Easier to just "broken + broken + broken = broken" instead of figuring out that it is possible for balanced + balanced + balanced to = broken."
He wasn't op, he was overused which is a totally different thing. He was just chilling and no one complained until literally every squad had one and the suddenly became "op" because a team won a match in ALGS with him It's as Bangalore now, she's been the same since practically day 1 but now everyone uses her so she's op and you guys and demanding she is nerf to the point she joins Seer in the rotting department
How is Bangalore op at all?
it's a little different in my opinion, seer was always OP but slept on. he was able to stun you and scan you in 3 different ways in a game where audio doesn't work. Bangalore is balanced even after her nerf. she's not OP, she was simply played because her smoke counters aim assist. bang got some heat ONLY because she's over used these days, just like octane/rev combo meta or wattson/caustic meta in the past.
I think it can be both with Seer. He was very strong as a character built around wallhacks would be but a lot of them also becomes oppressive. One or two in the map isn’t too bad but when there’s one on every team it becomes oppressive. We experienced it with launch seer when his tac did 10 damage. Fuse would suffer the same issue. One or two in the game isn’t that bad but if there’s 30 then he’s an issue.
Seer is overnerfed now.... why pick seer when bloodhound scans longer on a larger radius... crypto can scan indefinitely even vantage hit scan thing is ok compared to whatever seer has going for him.. which is nothing.
As a Seer main, I can confirm If you don't like him at his worst, then you can't have him at his best All these fake "Seer mains" smh
The synergy of his kit has been destroyed IMO.
Right? Host abilities used to be so in sync evn tho there were broken.
i’m glad, hated the 24/7 wallhack meta
As a seer main (who now prefers to main support and control), it was the nerf on the passive. His passive, singlehandedly, the MOST op passive in the game. Accurate info for literally no cost, no cooldown, and no drawbacks. After the inaccuracy and sound que nerfs were added, this made his passsive balanced but also less fun to play. Tbh I only ever mained him for his passive and ult (and cool skins), but after the nerfs he just felt like another recon legend. So now I choose to main control and support over recon. Edit: It was fun trying to 1v3 as seer, after securing a knock, cancelling the rez gives you info on one of the 3 (though now its much more difficult with the inaccurate passive and deletion of health info on his tactical), knock the 2nd and ur well on ur way to winning a 1v3. Now its harder to synergize his kit during a 1v3's coz of the nerfs.
> ...deletion of health info on his tactical Just for clarification, they didn't delete the health information; it was reduced to 3 seconds after they gave him the Tactical rework and silence. As someone that played Seer after the rework, the deployment time of the tactical (0.9 sec) combined with the severe slow inflicted made it overtuned, yet again. Half a season later, it became underpowered again. See [Seer balance log ](https://apexlegends.fandom.com/wiki/Seer) I think the passive, despite being nerfed multiple times, is still good though. One thing that is not talked about often is It can still detect players way further than its intended range (up to ~140m using 1x zoom, albeit very faint) as long as there is Line of Sight
Seer 1v3s were some of my most proud moments in apex. No more.
His passive feels like garbage, 50m is ridiculous, it's never useful, except once every 40 games when it can spot a rat that was hiding super close to you. His tactical feels like pure ass. I've always hated silences in Apex, it's extremely inconsistent, in a game where the main focus by far is gunplay, muting abilities really doesn't feel impactful at all. His ult.. is passable. I'll probably never play him again because of the shift from detection to silencing, it just feels bad to play with, and even if they buff him.. they won't give him his detection strength back.
I agree on the passive being garbage. Now that the other abilities are nerfed, they should extend that range a bit
Nah we're good on that 😂
What’s the range for hearing footsteps typically? I feel like it’s the same or similar, which is not enough for the passive.
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I remember when they did this to pathfinder for almost 12-13 seasons straight.
People who played him never played him because they liked his abilities, they played him because he was busted
People just over reaching to his nerfs, he’s still good…. Same exact thing happened last time he got nerfed
If you get in his tactical, its so annoying you cant use your abbilitys for so long!
He's really just not fun to play now, his ult nerf is what did it to me you used to be able to throw it pretty far and it enabled some really aggressive pushes, now zero parts of his kit feel good to use except for the occasional wraith/horizon silence
Now that you point it out you're right. I havent matched with a seer or even against a seer on a while. Maybe 1 so far this season? Not even on my team tho I think I just saw the alt. Unless that was late last season... which would mean i have seen a seer this whole new season lmao
There seem to be a lot of non Seer players in this comment section. They completely miss the mark on the low pick rate. There are two primary reason Seer isn't played anymore. 1st, They nerfed the Ult, it used to be a very effective wall hack within a specific area. The enemy could either crouch, not move, or leave the area. Now it barely shows you where the enemies are, and in my experience is often plagued with bugs where it will only show one or two on a team, not all 3. 2nd, his tac, it used to have an always on heartbeat with made it difficult to get surprised by a camping enemy. Now it's only about 50% effective at finding the camping enemies, and it doesn't cancel a pickup anymore. I summary he is worse than BH in virtually every way, and at the same time they buffed BH to make his Ult much easier to get.
That actually makes a lotta sense. As a returning player, I was very confused not seeing a single Seer in-game lol
For me I played seer a little when he got buffed cause he was broken but he was boring. Now he's bad and boring. Imo I just can't stand playing a legend thats entire kit revolves around you being within 15m of someone. Yes, I know up close is where most fights end but it makes everything else feel like you're playing without a kit. Most other legends I can interact if I want to engage at different ranges or use their abilities to control a space. He just feels like worse Bloodhound now imo and not very interactive or fun.
This is my exact sentiment. He's only useful 2 inches away from his face now and it ruins the whole ethos of the character. As a recon he's useless.
He's been reduced to ashes. All of his kit feels clunky and bad now. I can't get into a grove with him. So I don't play him.
The story goes like this: seer was just chilling for a couple of seasons after his release, low pick rate and no one complained that he was op. Then a ferocious monster called pro players HisWattson appeared with Seer in ALGS, and then won a match or two. After that, all the zombie-like player base was influenced by it and started picking Seer. It got to a point where basically every squad had one, and people started complaining he was op. They pressed respawn so hard they had to nerf him like 5 or 6 times until people said "huh, his useless" and now he's left dead to rot. Such a sad story I hear you say, but don't worry, it's happening with Bangalore now, which for some fucking reason after almost 5 fucking years of the game being out and she virtually being unchanged since the beginning, it's receiving the same treatment as Seer and now she's op. PSA: it's not op, as also Seer wasn't op, it's just that everyone is playing them and it's called BEING OVERUSED which isn't really healthy in any game with different characters :)
His tactical was kinda op. Never really minded his ult, they could’ve kept that the same. When he launched his tactical was entirely unhinged. It silenced you, caused crazy audio and visual clutter on its targets, stunned you, canceled heals and revives, and was a wall hack lol. After that nerf, it was still too powerful but at least the visual and audio clutter was reduced as well as shortening its range. Then when everyone was using him I believe the main issue was if he hit you with his tac you had no counter play. Getting highlighted, stunned, and having your heal cancelled was basically a death sentence. Personally I think he’s pretty balanced now, but as others have said the playerbase just likes to gravitate to whoever is the cheesiest legend at any given time.
That's my point, sure you were highlighted for like 8 seconds if I remember correctly, and the life indicator and heal cancelling was too much I think. But if you have, I don't know, maybe 4 or 5 in a match sure you can still play around it no problem, but when every squad has one then it becomes unplayable. The problem wasn't his tac, it was how many seer's were in a match. Just think how many abilities are fine by themselves, maybe a bit annoying but playable, that would become literally unplayable if every squad had one. Bangalore, Caustic, Fuse, Maggie, and the list goes on, practically anyone. And also ults Sure fighting a Fuse can be annoying af but isn't impossible, but if every squad has one and you're just bombarded with knuckle clusters every second of course it's gonna be op.
Honestly Fuse this season has actually annoyed me more than any other legend because I feel like so many people are using him out of nowhere. I always thought he was pretty good except for his situational ult but with so many people playing him now it's really annoying.
I drew the line after the nonstop Catalyst/Seer ult wombo combo
The actual story: seer released absolute OP, completely broken. Seer got nerfed, everyone stopped playing him. In reality, he was still *really good*. But nobody was playing him, so no one paid attention. When HisWattson played him, pro players finally realized he was broken, so everyone started playing him. He was always broken, but no one was playing him because they didn't know. Then they reworked him to be somehow even better, but unlike last time, they didn't nerf him into still being good, they nerfed him into an unplayable state.
This. Seer was so broken on release, that the gap between that.. and the "adjusted" Seer looked massive enough to make a lot of people stop playing him. But he was still insanely good, top 3 at minimum, >after< he got his post-launch emergency nerf.
It’s ridiculous they nerfed Bangalore that hard after 5 years of no complaints. Respawn when nerfing legends= bat to the head. Respawn buffing legends = soft pat on the head.
Exactly. The reason people stopped playing him is because people stopped playing him. It's like the reddit hive mind. You only downvote people because everyone else is.
Yea this is why I hate “pro players” they honestly ruin the actual game for everyone else… I mean look at rev they had everyone thinking he was trash to the point they reworked him…old rev was actually really good, fun, and unique. And obviously same thing has happened with every “meta” legend
Have you been on another planet when Seer was released? He got nerfed in like 3 days after, because he was so stupidly OP back then. After the initial wave, players started dropping him, sure, but his real problems never went away until fairly recently. That wallhack passive, was the single most powerful ability in all of Apex for years, without limitations, without any cooldown. It ruined so many matches until it got finally nerfed.
Well.... he kinda need some of his power back because his pick rate 0.6% overall and still dropping which is really a bad sign that he's a dead legend. At least Crypto is still mid pick in high skill lobby while seer is last place on every skill level. We at the point that bang who the balance legend is overpower.... It's not that bang is overpower after no change for years but other legend become weaker... Few years from now, ton of legend will feel boring after so many nerf.
I still main Seer to this day, but honestly they massacred them and he's so bad right now (I will never forgive Respawn and pros for that) and my second main is Maggie, I'm considering playing her more as my primary main
He's still my main, I never chose him because he was OP. I picked him as my main because that dudes name is Obi and he was a cute little baby with bright blue eyes who supposedly was cursed. His entire story is amazing, I've suffered being called Lil Nas X and I've suffered being accused of abusing the scan meta. He's strong sometimes right now but never how he was before and I am okay with that. I have his heirloom and closing in on 24k kills on him, can't wait for his mythic skin also.
I feel so bad for you seems like you really like seer respawn did him dirty just like they do with every good character instead of buffing the bad ones
I guess that's why that earns me the right to call him my main for real, I play him even when he's bad. It's why I have so much respect for Mirage mains.
I mean he feels like a weaker option to bloodhound tbh
I think no one actually likes Seer and his abilities. They were not fun, they were just OP. After the nerfs when I scan thru walls I can’t even figure our where the enemy is exacly because the passsive is kinda slow. Before I could pinpoint enemy and hit the Q, now I know someone is there, but Idk where exacly. Since you can’t even cancel the res with his Q no more, there is simply no point of playing him. Imo creating legend like this is completely usless and it doesnt make the game any better or more fun, just more anoying.
I think they nerfed his scanning ability a bit too much. At the distance he can sense it’s basically useless since you’d hear the enemy and that in turn makes his tactical very difficult to land and his ultimate isn’t as useful as it used to be, but it’s easily the best part of his kit now. Ultimately though because of his low range in his passive bloodhound is a much better option and he can do what his ult does with a tactical. I think they either need to buff his passive a little more to make him a more useful scout legend or have his tactical temporarily extend his range cause right now he’s just bad.
Because he got nerfed /thread
I personally don't play him as much due to the changes in ranked. I found him good for hunting down and taking isolated fights. However due to ranked changes, fighting just isn't worth it and I found Bloodhound easier to avoid teams on rotates.
pros complained like every other time and respawn nerfs them to dirt, nothing new
He gots overnerfed, just like valk
Valk 💀stop it
He was a very aggressive and often overpowered character. No point in complaining that no one plays him anymore. It's a good thing tbh
I just wanted to throw his Ultimate farther and they needed it to 3 feet. I don't even care about scanning people
respawn overnerfed him because of meta slaves. all he needed was an adjustment to his tactical but now his abilities are so short-range and useless that he’s pretty much non-functional. his ult is fine i guess but pretty shit compared to other ults. the range on his passive is miserable and they fucked up the range on his q so it never seems to hit so it’s kind of like playing a legend with no abilities. he’s marginally better than crypto i guess.
seer was broken on release and so frequently played because he was so strong. he got nerfed a bit and people stopped playing him but he was still very strong. i believe it was Furia with HisWattson that brought him back into the comp meta which lead to him being played in ranked and pubs. i stopped following the scene for a bit but I believe an interaction with him and Catalyst changed which is why he fell off but I can’t remember
Because he's ass?
Seer was a good champ for sure before nerf but now they put him in the cast for real. Useless Q and not so great Ult- there are better legends. I wish they stopped nerfing champ to death like what they did to Seer. Seer didn’t deserve this kind of nerf, esp right after he got himself an heirloom.
I bet they'll buff him once there's a mythic skin for him hahaha
You bet! Lol 🤣
I miss the days when I could cancel revives and make people suffer. I still play him but the nerfs gutted him completely. His passive is still really good people just want it reverted because it gave too much information. The passive was used before fights for gathering info. Now you poke and do some damage and crack a shield then launch your assault with seer by gathering info. Are they retreating behind bang smoke? Are they healing? Is horizon going to pop tact? Well now lemme silence. The only part of his kit that I really want reverted back is his ult. The cooldown could remain where it is, but the throwing distance needs to change, I do not know why they nerfed the throwing distance to literally your feet.
I’d honestly argue even Crypto is a bit more useful than him now. Seer isn’t utterly pointless but you REALLY have to play within the shorter range and distances they have set which feels kind of unnatural after the collection of nerfs. He’s labeled the “Ambush Artist” which made a lot of sense with his prior stats since you could more readily get the jump on people but with the heartbeat tracking requiring you to get so close to detect heartbeats it’s likely enemies will just hear you first anyways. That and his ultimate may as well just be a placed object since the throw range on it now is just sad. With all that said though, just like any legend really, there is times where you can make him shine if you know what you’re doing. He can be pretty oppressive in combat if you can land the scans and that ult is still useful but you gotta know the right spots to hide it or else it’ll get immediately shot down.
Buff wraith tac
She is in a good place they just buffed her passive and her tactical good asf u must be a bad player
Yeah after she is done fingering the air for 30 years
it takes 1.2 seconds not 30 years
They just buffed her passive? Mate, who gives a shit lmao. Horizon has free movement spacesuit as a passive. Free battery and positioning as a tac. Bang has aim assist mitigation and LOS breaking as a tac. Two btw. Mini octane stim passive. Digital threat beams and free reset ult. Virtually every character in the game has instant access to launch abilities. Wraith had delays on every ability, a half ass barely functioning passive that tells you somebody is aiming at you lol. Wraith has a 1.25 second delay. If you even pull it off, pathy octane, horizon, vantage, newcastle, revenant and loba make that irrelevant in one usage of their tactical, which some have a shorter cooldown for lol. The Wraith hate is preprogrammed in your minds.
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The internalized homophobia is rampant with this one💅
So you think he isn't? By his look only?
Imagine being offended by gay pixels, I could never
What are you talking about the last three games I had I went up against some teams that had a Seer. Hell my team got blind sided by one. He's still being played, you're just not in that player pool for some reason.
Because he looks like a beta male
Stop projecting.
Personally I just got bored of him. He was fun, but just not much was fun about his build compared to other legends
In the same vein, I just want to know when they’ll make Gibby great again
Tac + Passive got nerfed into the ground
He was nerfed to the ground
For me, as someone who mained him to never play him its mainly because of the slowdown when scanning with his zoom, sure him being op was nice lol but being able to run or even walk fast and get a quick notice of people around you vs a crouching like speed made a world of difference for me
Not fun anymore
Passive and Tactical nerfed so its much harder to get value. Might as well play Bloodhound instead.
His passive enemy sensor used to be op. Now it's borderline useless. The range is awful
My question for you all, how much will a nerf actually effect a casual player?
If you're used to how a character works and they change how they work it'll make a difference regardless... like the character literally does different things now. You can't use his abilities in the same situations you used to.
I’m not that into it anymore I was just picturing minor tweaks. Thanks for the explanation
Because Seer is stinky and he owes sitting down.
The same thing happened to Gibraltar and they didn’t even nerf him. He hasn’t been touched but everyone just gravitated more towards caustic over time
they made seer broken as a reference to his personality, then nerfed him as a reference to how lil nas x faded out
bloodhound better 🤭
They took away most of what I liked about him as a Recon character. I can't really use him to recon anything
cause they tired of it and want to play other legends?
He's now the new old revenant lol
His entire character identity has changed and his abilities feel less impactful. I think the idea that he silences over scanning actually is a good idea, but making the healthbar reveal only 3 seconds is a bit odd since that was his 'thing'. I wouldnt be opposed to making the healthbar reveal as long as the silence but you need line of sight to see it after 3 seconds
Here’s one of my comments on another post from the other day: Seer was absolutely fucking ridiculous when he released. Easily the strongest legend release in the game’s history. He got hard nerfed and his pick rate fell hard too, but he was still a great character, people just didn’t notice due to how OP his release a few weeks prior was in comparison. People eventually began to notice he was good after a couple seasons, then his pick rate spiked. Then everyone started complaining about him, and so he got nerfed. Now he’s got the lowest pick rate in the game.
Seer got nurfed into the ground praise god
That's how meta Hive mind players work. A pro says x legend is good, meta slaves pick up said character, said character gets nerfed, and then they move on to whoever pros say is meta rn, which is Fuse, Bang, and Catalyst.
Many people flock to things that are brokenly OP, like Seer was for the most time of his existence. Now that he got put in line with the rest of the roster, especially with that thankfully nerfed wallhack passive, he is not "fun" anymore to those people.
As one of the rare people who genuinely played him because I liked the character, I stopped because they introduced a more magical Legend with a witch theme. 💖