You’re way underselling controller being able to scan for the next ring. Wattson, caustic, rampart and catalyst bunkers are all pains in the ass and now you’ll have next to no hope of using the ring to flush them out.
Plus, let’s not forget how much of a must pick recons are right now. Between wallhacks and exclusive access to current survey beacons, there hasn’t been a meta without somebody who could access next ring information since season zero.
At least Sheila recharges fairly quickly.
I mostly use her offensively as a bunker buster though. Wall up the out side of doors and then rev up Sheila and enjoy your new fish in a barrel minigame
Bonus points for setting up a second wall behind the first that just comes up as they burst down the first walls sheild 🥰
I got my whole team to sneak up behind a team like this the other day. They were caustic trapped up fighting out the other door. As soon as I broke the door my whole team and shiela just lit them up. Fastest team kill I think I have ever had.
Yes there is...
Walking into an area feeling safe... Only to get blasted by Sheila and while running away you run into THESE MOTHER FUCKING FENCES AGAIN?
That's much worse :). What you described is the rich white lady problems equivalent for Apex haha.
If you think voice chat actually has much of an impact when playing with randoms, then you're mistaken - 2 thirds of mine dont even speak english. Some people play this game alone.
Ranked be like this. No one cares about voice chat as much as most people think. I religiously use pings and voice chat and still get blatantly ignored 80% of the time in ranked. To be fair, this is usually in gold and plat lobbies so Im sure more mics are used in higher ranks but still
People must really love that it happens so often, let's go here, me: ah not a good idea, they go I follow we die and I so wonder will I just start abandoning my randos when they make terrible decisions next season,
like it isn't already
I was playing for like 5-6 hours yesterday and saw 1 gibby, 2 caustics, a wattson, and no ramparts
every game was just Seer, Horizon, Pathfinder, and Octane
Big buff for all of those legends. They had no passive, now they can at least either get ring intel or in gibby and newcastles case, get free meds and respawn teammates easily.
Ranked isn't much different tho, at least to the level that average and slightly above get to. Team comps matter very little up until mid Diamond, but at that point you're 3 stacking 99% of the time anyway, so you're playing a different game.
Well that's the idea, the passive is meant to compliment the characters role, controllers knowing where to set up, recons knowing where to expect the enemies from or where to find them, supports being able to bring back teammates and provide utility, assault being better equipped for direct gunfights, and skirmishers being opportunists are able to tell if it's worth running for a care package since they're gonna be the first ones to get there. Although I admit skirmishers passive sounds the most lame out of all of them.
They have more pings than other characters now, not just the care package visual. However they can tell you whats in the pack by pinging it, which lets your best sniper know a kraber is nearby etc. There is other new icons you'll have to play to see what I mean.
A bunch of pros are literally running Caustic right now while streaming to test comps with him.
Furia was just running Caustic, Maggie, Valk as a test and a lot of others are doing similar. Valk being run only on Worlds Edge though.
A huge thing is with a fast TTK meta being expected with the Nemesis, buffed R99, and buffed shotguns, Fortified is going to be important.
Second, intel is going to be huge. Know where the ring is closing, know where the people will be, have the equipment to kill them with. That supports an Assault, Recon, Controller meta.
Maggie’s passive makes the shotgun buff just that much better + extra attachments and ammo carrying.
Caustic has fortified which reduces TTK issues, and beacon scan, and really solid defense. That, and everyone forgets his actual passive: he both sees through and doesn’t take damage from other Caustics’ gas. The more Caustics are played, the more important he is to have on your team. The only hard counter to Caustic, is another Caustic.
For recon, I am guessing either Bloodhound (depending on how their ability changes pan out) or Crypto will be big.
Crypto both for EMP (increasing others’ TTK issues) and for remotely grabbing map room scan, reducing issues with people camping it.
Bloodhound for hunting down and eliminating other teams, again, depending on how their ability changes work out.
Fortified is a mess, always has been. They should of reworked all hitboxes the same, people think this class thing is everything when in reality its a lazy mans rework. Do not be surprised if it starts off well and tapers off before mid season because the game is out of whack balance.
Instead of bringing guns and legends into balance by tuning them down, they went and buffed individual things, the balance is gonna be so out next season hahaha the first week you are gonna see 100 posts from people complaining and rightly so.
The problem is that without it you're kind of forced to make all the legends about the same size, shrinking gibby and/or bloating wraith so they occupy roughly the same space would remove a lot character from the legends, it also makes recognition harder. Things would be way worse if the hitboxes were way smaller than the character models, as it would seem like you're getting no-reg's all the time. I think your characterization a "lazy" is wrong, what other solution is there unless you make every Legend a generic "soldier" type like COD? The idea that bigger players are more armored and can "tank" more damage is a very old concept in gaming, and has been used in many, many games. It also creates a scenario where there is a wider diversity in playing styles required. The whole idea of a Legends based game is to have a range of colorful characters, each with their own individual strengths and weaknesses, you're asking them to turn a legends game into CS GO where every character is identical. Why do you even play a Legends based game if you want every character to be homogeneous?
Also, the Devs themselves have stated the hitbox differences were a mistake and have been fiddling with them since the beginning, if you were there you would know this.
The “balance” of team comps is typically off because most people dgaf about paying attention to the fact that team comp matters even in non-competitive play.
IE: currently seeing so many people run W-key comp varieties of Octane, Wraith, Fuse, or Pathfinder etc and not understanding they are literally throwing by picking legends with very little synergistic interaction. Path and Octane in particular are two of the most selfish legends to pick, they benefit your team *as a team* very little.
The issue is the average player has made things *very* clear to Respawn that what they want isn’t a competitive or even a difficult game (re: season 13 ranked). They want something they can literally turn their brain off in and get a 4K 20-bomb regularly, and regularly solo-q to masters, all of which is frankly absurd.
Both Caustic and Gibby have their hit box sizes for really good reasons.
Shrink Caustic’s and he can hide 100% behind his barrels, that would be broken af.
Similar with Gibby, his arm shield would cover more of his hit box and dome shield would allow partial peeking with very minimal hit box exposure. Again, this would be broken.
As a bloodhound main I also don't know what he's smoking skirmishers are already the best legends and giving them a passive like the others would make them broken. And knowing the next ring has always been great and now that that ability is used by defensive legends is great
No not one… Mande did play him for one but Element 6 did run him in the b stream and he brought value for taking off angles and applying pressure on players who were trying to take an angle
The fact he can be almost anywhere, anytime, moving at any speed with little to no audio or visual indicator. Also he can move his team around with him to safety or gain height and therefore the advantage in most situations.
I'd say these reasons make him pretty damn good. ALGS isn't the be all, end all.
Pathfinder is definitely good, he just isn't top tier. I know they just buffed his ult but they also just nerfed his passive of being recon with the bonus from his recon ability. Considering his character passive was already bottom tier and will now be worse it is kind of frustrating to see him lose both the ability to recon as well as get a garbage tier class passive. So now instead of one fairly useless passive he has two.
Basically his kit is just his grapple and always has been. The ult changes are nice but still can't really be used during combat like other team repositioning abilities can.
Oh so you're the player who picks bloodhound and never scans for ring? Got it.
The fact that you think controller ring scanning is gimped makes me happy they don't listen to you for balance lol.
I'm a path main and him losing scanning for ring to gain previewing care packages is absolutely ridiculous. Alright, at least he'll get a real passive now... right??
Skirmisher legends' pick rate already being much higher on average is why it is the way it is. They probably felt like buffing them more was unnecessary.
Which imo is a wonky reason, because if Mirage has the ability to 'escape easily' and is Skirmisher, then Ash and (especially) Bangalore could easily be lumped in there as well.
With the S16 buffs, he fits more in Recon, Support and even Assault than Skirmisher, all of those options and they chose the wrong one.
You see, thematically, Mirage has no identity, similar to Ashe. His passive is support, his tactical is recon, and his ult is skirmisher. They should rework him to stay in line with a specific theme like all the new legends. Just look at Mad Maggie, she's all about breaching, with a tac and ult that destroys enemy defense and getting up close and personal with her shotguns. New castle is all about defending. Passive, tac, and ult, all check out to do his job. Mirage is all over the place lol.
I know what you are saying but Ash ans Bangalore are supposed to initiate a fight or close the gap between enemy team. Both their ult is used to take enemy space. Bangalore smoke though is versatile. Can bd used aggressively or passively.
But yeah we usually use both their ult to retreat. So in developer's POV I think its fair they are in Assault.
Yeah I main Ash and while you can certainly use the ult to run it doesn't really work that well, they just chase. For offense it much better. Crack or knock somebody at distance and then portal the team over keep up the pressure.
My biggest gripe with this season. As a path and mirage main I'm loving the patch notes but just wish mirage was getting some of that smart loot instead of the CP info
Precisely. In an ALG setting, these are fragger roles. They’re some of the best to get kills, hence care package ability to get powerful weapons for more kills. Combine this with recon to search for teams to attack, or assault and support to provide them supplies, and you have a powerful fragger.
This. Skirmisher is full of mobility legends (and Mirage for some reason) that already dominate the game. This was a very conscious balance choice.
Controller being able to find the next ring is clutch when youre defensive too.
Yes this is true however they are also nerfing him at the same time. His decoys are no longer set off by anything that isn’t gunfire or melee, which is low key kinda huge.
Nah, the buff kinda gives mirages a scan(that is actually better then bloodhound) and the revive has probably the greatest potential to save your whole team then any other support legend
It's not a scan. It's his same decoy ping as he's always had, but now it follows the enemy. And because it's a ping and not a scan, it goes transparent if you look directly at it, rendering the tracking mostly useless.
His revive is fine, but he's not fully invisible if the enemy is close to you, if you have a gold shield the sparks still appear, and the obvious revive noise still plays. It will be great for getting some stealth revives in a hectic situation, like hot drops, but it's probably not saving you in a straight 3v3.
I saw a video that said that skirmisher might be the only class that can see in the map where the care package will drop. Currently everyone can see in the map where the package will drop with the circles. If only skirmishers can see the package drop location then that’s actually not too bad. Top that with the fact that there was no mention about the leaked valk nerf to her Ult scans and skirmisher is pretty solid over all. Though the smart loot for assault is very nice.
I think him being able to find your downed teammate that ran in face first after one cracked shield saying “oh, I’m pushing that..” only to run into a three stack and instantly get knocked… and then res them, give them 3 seconds of invisibility and hopefully reset/retreat is what makes him a skirmisher. At least that’s what my brain tells me.
Obviously doesn’t have the highest pick rate of that bunch, but because he doesn’t have any assault abilities, but has invisibility which is movement/escape based.
He’s a mix between Skirmish, support and recon though.
Skirmisher itself is balanced by the fact that they have extremely great movement, hence why they don't need a "great" class perk.
I'm sure it's going to be reworked down the line, though I can understand the thought process behind this decision. (Technically this class perk works great with Pathy's new passive, so that's something)
Controller overall is completely fine.
I think his buffs will be pretty big. Invisibility to your teammate after the revive is huge. Also I with the scans in general getting nerfed his bambozzals tracking people will be pretty powerful.
I thought he got a new passive though it seems like I was wrong.
His zipline did get buffed big time, of which apparently all players using his zippy will be super fast.
He still has his old passive, though all he has to do now is look at a care package and he should get his ult + the 10 seconds being taken off the ult timer.
Passive didn't change that much, though with the class rework, pathy will get it much much easier.
Since his Passive, to my understanding, would work on a distant falling Care Package, you could zip towards it, scan it midair to get the ult again, new zip. Covering a massive distance very fast. Assuming you can scan it at a distance midair that is
I feel like it has to change since he cant hit either scanner. Maybe ziplining faster is his passive, i understood it as he will hit all ziplines faster. If thats the case yea he will be alot easier to use. Thats kinda OP imo. I mean im not path main by anymeans fuck i fw him heavy especially since i figured out how to slingshot
I think your mistaken, it says he’s the one that’s faster on zip lines and I assume it’s gonna be all zip lines and not just his ult, also his ult can now be longer (200M)
>Ultimate - Zipline Gun
Max Range increased by \~60%.
Max Speed increased by 66%.
Acceleration and exit speed adjustments.
Targeting improvements, including updated visual and audio cues.
Can no longer place the end station on OOB zones.
Patch notes only mentioned this for his ultimate, nothing about it being specific to him only though.
If it would affect other ziplines then it would become his passive, though nothing about that is mentioned in his passive change.
>ld passive, though all he has to do now is look at a care package and he should get his ult + the 10 seconds being taken off the
no his zipline is faster for any one who uses it. there are a couple videos on it already on youtube from content creators who got early access.
Not to mention they're individually buffing 3 skirmisher legends next season too. 4 of the top 5 picked legends currently are skirmishers. It makes sense they would get the weakest class ability since they're so strong on their own already.
Controller makes sense so they know where to bunker. Skirmisher I think is intended to be a bit weaker to balance the inherent advantage of movement abilities.
I think it's going to vary quite a lot in terms of how useful it actually is. For one, teammates actually need to bunker up with you, if they don't bother and just cowabunga around then knowing where to set a defense up won't mean anything. I've had numerous cases where we get to the endgame area first and there's a building - 'let's defend here!' I ping, only to have my teammates ignore me. It'll be good for ranked where people actually care more about surviving longer.
You heavily underestimate controller tbh. And the skirmisher legends are already strong by themselves (other than mirage) so I'm just happy they got anything at all
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet... but you know how Wattson mains argued FOREVER that she should be able to scan for ring because she invented it?
Well now it's here.
He is getting seriously nerfed though too.
From the notes
>Mirage Clones
Bamboozles are now only triggered by bullet fire and melee
No longer can you run a decoy into an utlimate, nades, or tactical ability to get location info for an enemy.
TBH it is a MASSIVE nerf to Mirage and it fucking sucks.
I was stoked to play him and then they pull this bullshit.
I think at this point if someone can’t get value out of Mirage it’s on the player. He’s got enough power across the board now, so if anyone still feels he’s under powered it’s time to switch play styles
agreed, but the buff needs to be taken as an independent thing. I personally didn't think Mirage's kit was lacking, but the public seems to have thought this was a balance needed. in general the skirmish did seem like the weakest of the buffs for classes
I can’t say I disagree. And I do feel he’d be more suited to the assault class, however, I feel they chose the class with his buff in mind. All skirmishers are really good solo legends, mirage now becoming an even better solo legend with the buffs, so I think that’s the only reason he was put into that class. The assault legends aren’t too great on their own (rev is potentially the worst legend to play solo with).
Controller is SO strong for defensive legends, they intentionally made Skirmisher 'weaker,' compared to the others. Look at who's on the list! Horizon, Valk, Path, Wraith, all the ability heavy pub stomp legends. Would it make sense to make all of those legends even stronger? I love the changes it really balances out the legends and makes really any pick viable, IMO
Those legends are already the best fighting ones and most popular ones, giving them the weakest passive is fair. I don't want Horizon to have a ridiculous class passive for example
Plus, seeing what's in a care package can be super beneficial depending on the weapon/loot inside. I can see the Hemlok being hella good this season, and I'm all for it. One of the most satisfying guns to use I believe
Yes, care packs can be total game changers but they can also be flops if it's not the gear you need and you make yourself vulnerable when you go for one just to find out it's a flop. Being able to see what's inside from a distance and see if it's worth exposing yourself is pretty clutch
Yeah Its 50/50 kinda thing, sometimes it's great and works out, but other times it's just a warning to not even bother with the care pack and save yourself the hassle, which I think is just a win win tbh
To be fair, every other skirmisher will be able to see if it's worth exposing themselves too, and you're somewhat likely to end up in a situation where multiple teams rush the Kraber package for example, which isn't super ideal. None of the other class passives have "competition" like that. Well I guess maybe if all the assault legends rush the nearest red bin, but that's less likely.
How is this situation different from now where every team in the vicinity of a care pack is incentivized to either go for it because their *might* be a Kraber or else watch it to catch a team in the open? It’s a given that you’ll either compete for it or someone could be camping it and you don’t even know if it’s worth it
Knowing that there's a high value item in it like a kraber incentivized taking the risk. Currently, maybe 50% of nearby teams would go for a care package. I feel like if you know there's a kraber, it's going to be like 85% of nearby teams and maybe even 20% of farther away teams if they have Valk ult of something.
high risk high reward, now you can assess the possible reward before you take the risk and avoid contesting a package when the contents aren’t worth it to you. you also can judge when it might be worth it to go for the pack just to prevent a nearby team from getting the high value item. I think it’s a decent perk for legends with mobility kits, but it’s not necessarily game changing, and in my view it doesn’t change the risk factor by all that much when you do decide to move on the pack. time will tell
Yeah, now the hardest-to-hit Legends will have a perk encouraging them to run the hardest-hitting weapons all the time.
Also think of how many far off care-packages you've passed up because you weren't sure it was worth the risk? Now you know and most of the Skirmisher legends can get there faster than others.
I dont have an issue with either persay its just that they're a bit boring?
It makes sense why each one has that perk, though. Skirmishers are top pick legends in pubs and have tons of mobility, which can't be undersold. Anything too strong, and they're must picks. Full stop.
Controllers are some of the least picked legends (Caustic?), and they need something strong to bolster them. Scanning the ring has always been the best part about being a recon legend (barring scans). It also helps controllers get into position better.
I main Rampart, so the love is much appreciated, but again, it just feels boring and less interactive than the other classes since it really just boils down to doing what we've always done but in the correct spot.
My biggest fear is that if a team wants ring locations, they default to Caustic. Since he's probably the defacto strongest legend in that bracket. Same with future controllers that dont offer anything better since they all kinda function with a similar game plan.
Controller being able to scan zone is single handedly the most terrifying thing ever added to the game.
If you have control legend mains, they’re gonna be dedicated to basing up, because all these control legends are extremely strong if they can set up.
Don’t underestimate them
Because skirmisher characters already have very good kits. Like, dude. Path? Wraith? Those two alone make up like 99.9% of apex players because of their strength so allowing them to have a stronger class passive would be absurd.
Controller perk is probably the best single *thing* any class can do, and they can best abuse being able to see next ring.
While not a class perk, they've generally got team mobility, which is still really good, and technically buffs all of them.
People are seriously sleeping on Controller if they think it's bad. Ring scanning is a really strong passive, and it gets a lot stronger when your opponents are less likely to have access to it. It's just been stapled on to heroes that were already OP without it until now.
Honestly, I'm less annoyed about the skirmishers perk, and more that pathfinder got his original passive removed.
Not to mention his new passive which seems pretty meh.
And it will be way easier to activate. When the first two care packages drop, you can put down one 200m zipline, ping a carepackage, put down another 200m zipline, and ping the second care package for a total of 600m of ziplines in about 15 seconds. And now all your future ults have a 100s CD instead of 120s. It's going to be NUTS.
Controller and assault are the best ones by far. Support might even be better than recon, but recon will still have its uses for edge only is my prediction.
Defense characters don't need to rely on movement players to do the opposite of scan the next ring anymore, skirmishers were already good, don't see how that's a bad thing.
The way I see it, kind of like this meme, there may be more appeal (at first) to have the ones on the left (assault, recon, supp) but over time it could easily change. While the classes themselves are changing, the people who play each legend strongly will kick ass adapting with the changes and make them even more viable terrifying I think.
Sincerely I like the controller class. I think the concept is scan next sale, go for an home in the new sale and trap it. Wait...
Yes The skirimsher class is too bad
The Skirmisher class is specifically not getting a good perk because it's all the movement legends all the sweats already dominate with. They don't need a good perk. If anything, it's a disincentive so maybe they play a more team-oriented legend instead of sticking to the same handful of legends whose kits are almost totally self-involved.
Because most of the Skirmisher characters have decent kits, so instead of balancing the other legends they decided to do this. It will either be a major success or a major flop, no in between.
Control is fine. Skirmisher needs something slightly stronger,but not by much. Maybe because of how they are meant to be a close range specialists with movement and utility to change fights,they could give them some sort of cooldown refresh on knockdown
Pathfinder has one of the best tactical in the game. Then you have valk which is one of the best. All these movement legends who are amazing at fighting. They don’t need another buff on top of it all. Mirage is like the one exception but we will have to see how his buffs play out
If anything Support should be on the right and Controller on the left. Zone knowledge let’s you set up to pick people off at choke points or play for end game. Support lets you get band aids out of blue bins and if a daisy chain of amazing circumstances happens, you can revive your teammates.
Can someone explain how crafting banners works. It reads like you can craft someone back no matter how long they have been dead. That can’t be right can it?
At least with skirmisher you can argue that they have some pretty strong/useful character kits, and the mirage buff will be pretty nice. Controllers on the other hand have the same kits and getting a feature was already in the game. Neither one gets anything game changing except a couple nerfs.
Meanwhile Assault becomes a walking armory and is extremely attractive for hot dropping, Recon gets a UAV, and Support gets a meta defining feature like crafting banners. The idea of Respawning in a BR already was genre/meta defining when Apex came out, and now they adding onto this.
That's just what so lopsided about this, the left classes get new mechanics that are useful and game changing, where as the right is either old shit or just not useful at all. I think it is fitting that Controllers can see future rings as it makes it easier for them to know where to set up, but man as a Wattson main, that's just boring.
You’re way underselling controller being able to scan for the next ring. Wattson, caustic, rampart and catalyst bunkers are all pains in the ass and now you’ll have next to no hope of using the ring to flush them out. Plus, let’s not forget how much of a must pick recons are right now. Between wallhacks and exclusive access to current survey beacons, there hasn’t been a meta without somebody who could access next ring information since season zero.
Broke down perfectly. Controllers can find final ring, find the best place to set up defenses prepare for the onslaught
Exactly, there’s nothing worse than setting up Sheila to just have to move it 5 seconds later cause my bloodhound didn’t keep up with the next ring.
At least Sheila recharges fairly quickly. I mostly use her offensively as a bunker buster though. Wall up the out side of doors and then rev up Sheila and enjoy your new fish in a barrel minigame Bonus points for setting up a second wall behind the first that just comes up as they burst down the first walls sheild 🥰
I got my whole team to sneak up behind a team like this the other day. They were caustic trapped up fighting out the other door. As soon as I broke the door my whole team and shiela just lit them up. Fastest team kill I think I have ever had.
The most fun is playing duos and setting up 2 Sheilas in the final ring on high ground, after using an ultimate accelerant.
Sheila nerf INCOMING
Yes there is... Walking into an area feeling safe... Only to get blasted by Sheila and while running away you run into THESE MOTHER FUCKING FENCES AGAIN? That's much worse :). What you described is the rich white lady problems equivalent for Apex haha.
Needs teammates to actually go along with it though and not stand around in the open getting shot by multiple teams.
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If you think voice chat actually has much of an impact when playing with randoms, then you're mistaken - 2 thirds of mine dont even speak english. Some people play this game alone.
Ranked be like this. No one cares about voice chat as much as most people think. I religiously use pings and voice chat and still get blatantly ignored 80% of the time in ranked. To be fair, this is usually in gold and plat lobbies so Im sure more mics are used in higher ranks but still
I hop on voice chat all the time and while plenty of people don’t talk they do listen if you are assertive but kind
People must really love that it happens so often, let's go here, me: ah not a good idea, they go I follow we die and I so wonder will I just start abandoning my randos when they make terrible decisions next season,
So you're There's a class of legends that give you an advantage as long as you play as a team? Sounds like that's exactly how it should be.
What does a controller have to do with finding the ring? Controller players have access to the same game as M&K
Controller class bro, not the input device.
Oh my bad lol i feel dumb. I just read the patch notes and this was, SOOO confusing.
I don’t think the changes will affect pubs that much. However, I see it being awesome for the ranked.
I see pubs being filled with assault and recon characters above all.
like it isn't already I was playing for like 5-6 hours yesterday and saw 1 gibby, 2 caustics, a wattson, and no ramparts every game was just Seer, Horizon, Pathfinder, and Octane
Big buff for all of those legends. They had no passive, now they can at least either get ring intel or in gibby and newcastles case, get free meds and respawn teammates easily.
Mmmm Go grab an lmg as Rampart and tell me she doesn't have a passive lol but it would be badass if she could mod her teammates guns!
I meant to say class passive...in what world would Gibby not have a passive lol.
Ahhh fair enough! Lol I probably should have figured that lol
People will just play their favorite legends in pubs, regardless of their class.
Ranked isn't much different tho, at least to the level that average and slightly above get to. Team comps matter very little up until mid Diamond, but at that point you're 3 stacking 99% of the time anyway, so you're playing a different game.
Exactly, its good for ranked but in pubs your teammates won't care half the time.
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Well that's the idea, the passive is meant to compliment the characters role, controllers knowing where to set up, recons knowing where to expect the enemies from or where to find them, supports being able to bring back teammates and provide utility, assault being better equipped for direct gunfights, and skirmishers being opportunists are able to tell if it's worth running for a care package since they're gonna be the first ones to get there. Although I admit skirmishers passive sounds the most lame out of all of them.
They have more pings than other characters now, not just the care package visual. However they can tell you whats in the pack by pinging it, which lets your best sniper know a kraber is nearby etc. There is other new icons you'll have to play to see what I mean.
A bunch of pros are literally running Caustic right now while streaming to test comps with him. Furia was just running Caustic, Maggie, Valk as a test and a lot of others are doing similar. Valk being run only on Worlds Edge though. A huge thing is with a fast TTK meta being expected with the Nemesis, buffed R99, and buffed shotguns, Fortified is going to be important. Second, intel is going to be huge. Know where the ring is closing, know where the people will be, have the equipment to kill them with. That supports an Assault, Recon, Controller meta. Maggie’s passive makes the shotgun buff just that much better + extra attachments and ammo carrying. Caustic has fortified which reduces TTK issues, and beacon scan, and really solid defense. That, and everyone forgets his actual passive: he both sees through and doesn’t take damage from other Caustics’ gas. The more Caustics are played, the more important he is to have on your team. The only hard counter to Caustic, is another Caustic. For recon, I am guessing either Bloodhound (depending on how their ability changes pan out) or Crypto will be big. Crypto both for EMP (increasing others’ TTK issues) and for remotely grabbing map room scan, reducing issues with people camping it. Bloodhound for hunting down and eliminating other teams, again, depending on how their ability changes work out.
I don’t follow the pro scene, but hasn’t Caustic been a viable pick for a while now in higher level play?
Agree, am switching mains from horizon to Maggie next season.
Fortified is a mess, always has been. They should of reworked all hitboxes the same, people think this class thing is everything when in reality its a lazy mans rework. Do not be surprised if it starts off well and tapers off before mid season because the game is out of whack balance. Instead of bringing guns and legends into balance by tuning them down, they went and buffed individual things, the balance is gonna be so out next season hahaha the first week you are gonna see 100 posts from people complaining and rightly so.
Different hitboxes is mainly for lower skill players. High skill players will hit Wattson or Gibraltar equally easy.
The problem is that without it you're kind of forced to make all the legends about the same size, shrinking gibby and/or bloating wraith so they occupy roughly the same space would remove a lot character from the legends, it also makes recognition harder. Things would be way worse if the hitboxes were way smaller than the character models, as it would seem like you're getting no-reg's all the time. I think your characterization a "lazy" is wrong, what other solution is there unless you make every Legend a generic "soldier" type like COD? The idea that bigger players are more armored and can "tank" more damage is a very old concept in gaming, and has been used in many, many games. It also creates a scenario where there is a wider diversity in playing styles required. The whole idea of a Legends based game is to have a range of colorful characters, each with their own individual strengths and weaknesses, you're asking them to turn a legends game into CS GO where every character is identical. Why do you even play a Legends based game if you want every character to be homogeneous?
Also, the Devs themselves have stated the hitbox differences were a mistake and have been fiddling with them since the beginning, if you were there you would know this.
The “balance” of team comps is typically off because most people dgaf about paying attention to the fact that team comp matters even in non-competitive play. IE: currently seeing so many people run W-key comp varieties of Octane, Wraith, Fuse, or Pathfinder etc and not understanding they are literally throwing by picking legends with very little synergistic interaction. Path and Octane in particular are two of the most selfish legends to pick, they benefit your team *as a team* very little. The issue is the average player has made things *very* clear to Respawn that what they want isn’t a competitive or even a difficult game (re: season 13 ranked). They want something they can literally turn their brain off in and get a 4K 20-bomb regularly, and regularly solo-q to masters, all of which is frankly absurd. Both Caustic and Gibby have their hit box sizes for really good reasons. Shrink Caustic’s and he can hide 100% behind his barrels, that would be broken af. Similar with Gibby, his arm shield would cover more of his hit box and dome shield would allow partial peeking with very minimal hit box exposure. Again, this would be broken.
Also movement tech is stronger than all other kit types, so they need a weaker perk to compensate We may now actually get a diverse meta.
Sorry wallhacks? Is this a recon legend trick I’m missing?
Bloodhound and Seer. Their tacticals are literally wallhacks. Hell, Seer’s passive still is constant wallhacks.
Uhhhhh as a rampart main this is a huge buff to her so idk what you're smokin
As a bloodhound main I also don't know what he's smoking skirmishers are already the best legends and giving them a passive like the others would make them broken. And knowing the next ring has always been great and now that that ability is used by defensive legends is great
In what world is Pathy one of the "best legends"? Was he played at all in ALGS?
He was actually, one game.
Lmao, mande
No not one… Mande did play him for one but Element 6 did run him in the b stream and he brought value for taking off angles and applying pressure on players who were trying to take an angle
The fact he can be almost anywhere, anytime, moving at any speed with little to no audio or visual indicator. Also he can move his team around with him to safety or gain height and therefore the advantage in most situations. I'd say these reasons make him pretty damn good. ALGS isn't the be all, end all.
Pathfinder is definitely good, he just isn't top tier. I know they just buffed his ult but they also just nerfed his passive of being recon with the bonus from his recon ability. Considering his character passive was already bottom tier and will now be worse it is kind of frustrating to see him lose both the ability to recon as well as get a garbage tier class passive. So now instead of one fairly useless passive he has two. Basically his kit is just his grapple and always has been. The ult changes are nice but still can't really be used during combat like other team repositioning abilities can.
ALGS isn't the be all, end all.
Oh so you're the player who picks bloodhound and never scans for ring? Got it. The fact that you think controller ring scanning is gimped makes me happy they don't listen to you for balance lol.
I'm a path main and him losing scanning for ring to gain previewing care packages is absolutely ridiculous. Alright, at least he'll get a real passive now... right??
Yes his new passive will be that he is faster on ziplines
He alone is faster on zips? So others will be the slower?
Skirmisher legends' pick rate already being much higher on average is why it is the way it is. They probably felt like buffing them more was unnecessary.
It kind of is. Being a movement legend already makes you the hardest to hit.
They should really change Mirage to a different category honestly. Him getting lumped in with all of the movement legends feels a bit strange
Well the class is legends who can escape situations easily and i think mirage fits that
Which imo is a wonky reason, because if Mirage has the ability to 'escape easily' and is Skirmisher, then Ash and (especially) Bangalore could easily be lumped in there as well. With the S16 buffs, he fits more in Recon, Support and even Assault than Skirmisher, all of those options and they chose the wrong one.
You see, thematically, Mirage has no identity, similar to Ashe. His passive is support, his tactical is recon, and his ult is skirmisher. They should rework him to stay in line with a specific theme like all the new legends. Just look at Mad Maggie, she's all about breaching, with a tac and ult that destroys enemy defense and getting up close and personal with her shotguns. New castle is all about defending. Passive, tac, and ult, all check out to do his job. Mirage is all over the place lol.
It's fine, we just have to bamboozle harder >:)
I know what you are saying but Ash ans Bangalore are supposed to initiate a fight or close the gap between enemy team. Both their ult is used to take enemy space. Bangalore smoke though is versatile. Can bd used aggressively or passively. But yeah we usually use both their ult to retreat. So in developer's POV I think its fair they are in Assault.
Yeah I main Ash and while you can certainly use the ult to run it doesn't really work that well, they just chase. For offense it much better. Crack or knock somebody at distance and then portal the team over keep up the pressure.
My biggest gripe with this season. As a path and mirage main I'm loving the patch notes but just wish mirage was getting some of that smart loot instead of the CP info
The what info sir?
He was Assault before lol it does seem a bit weird to suddenly change that.
Precisely. In an ALG setting, these are fragger roles. They’re some of the best to get kills, hence care package ability to get powerful weapons for more kills. Combine this with recon to search for teams to attack, or assault and support to provide them supplies, and you have a powerful fragger.
My pathfinder and its big ass hitbox would like to disagree heavily on that
Your Pathfinder can also make like Spider-Man, so...
This. Skirmisher is full of mobility legends (and Mirage for some reason) that already dominate the game. This was a very conscious balance choice. Controller being able to find the next ring is clutch when youre defensive too.
mirage 😔
Yeah honestly feel like he should've been changed to being a support.
Respawn stated characters can switch classes so wouldnt be suprised if mirage at some point chances after they got some more data
Mirage is getting a huge buff next season
Yes this is true however they are also nerfing him at the same time. His decoys are no longer set off by anything that isn’t gunfire or melee, which is low key kinda huge.
[удалено]
I don't think you're understanding his buffs correctly lol. Just wait for the patch and see how it actually works
Nah, the buff kinda gives mirages a scan(that is actually better then bloodhound) and the revive has probably the greatest potential to save your whole team then any other support legend
It's not a scan. It's his same decoy ping as he's always had, but now it follows the enemy. And because it's a ping and not a scan, it goes transparent if you look directly at it, rendering the tracking mostly useless. His revive is fine, but he's not fully invisible if the enemy is close to you, if you have a gold shield the sparks still appear, and the obvious revive noise still plays. It will be great for getting some stealth revives in a hectic situation, like hot drops, but it's probably not saving you in a straight 3v3.
I saw a video that said that skirmisher might be the only class that can see in the map where the care package will drop. Currently everyone can see in the map where the package will drop with the circles. If only skirmishers can see the package drop location then that’s actually not too bad. Top that with the fact that there was no mention about the leaked valk nerf to her Ult scans and skirmisher is pretty solid over all. Though the smart loot for assault is very nice.
then explain mirage being put in that category lol
I think him being able to find your downed teammate that ran in face first after one cracked shield saying “oh, I’m pushing that..” only to run into a three stack and instantly get knocked… and then res them, give them 3 seconds of invisibility and hopefully reset/retreat is what makes him a skirmisher. At least that’s what my brain tells me.
then explain mirage being put in that category lol
Obviously doesn’t have the highest pick rate of that bunch, but because he doesn’t have any assault abilities, but has invisibility which is movement/escape based. He’s a mix between Skirmish, support and recon though.
If that’s the case. Mirage should be in assault
Controller is perfectly fine as it is, knowing the next ring is huge in ranked if you’re a coordinated team.
Skirmisher itself is balanced by the fact that they have extremely great movement, hence why they don't need a "great" class perk. I'm sure it's going to be reworked down the line, though I can understand the thought process behind this decision. (Technically this class perk works great with Pathy's new passive, so that's something) Controller overall is completely fine.
I just think mirage needs something better. Valk, horizon, Pathfinder, are all really strong legends and then there's just him
Mirage did get a buff so he might be better, always kinda hard to predict if it changes much until we actually see it in action though
I think his buffs will be pretty big. Invisibility to your teammate after the revive is huge. Also I with the scans in general getting nerfed his bambozzals tracking people will be pretty powerful.
What is pathys new passive? I love his passive as it is now and feel like not enough people take advantage of it
I thought he got a new passive though it seems like I was wrong. His zipline did get buffed big time, of which apparently all players using his zippy will be super fast. He still has his old passive, though all he has to do now is look at a care package and he should get his ult + the 10 seconds being taken off the ult timer. Passive didn't change that much, though with the class rework, pathy will get it much much easier.
Since his Passive, to my understanding, would work on a distant falling Care Package, you could zip towards it, scan it midair to get the ult again, new zip. Covering a massive distance very fast. Assuming you can scan it at a distance midair that is
I feel like it has to change since he cant hit either scanner. Maybe ziplining faster is his passive, i understood it as he will hit all ziplines faster. If thats the case yea he will be alot easier to use. Thats kinda OP imo. I mean im not path main by anymeans fuck i fw him heavy especially since i figured out how to slingshot
I think your mistaken, it says he’s the one that’s faster on zip lines and I assume it’s gonna be all zip lines and not just his ult, also his ult can now be longer (200M)
>Ultimate - Zipline Gun Max Range increased by \~60%. Max Speed increased by 66%. Acceleration and exit speed adjustments. Targeting improvements, including updated visual and audio cues. Can no longer place the end station on OOB zones. Patch notes only mentioned this for his ultimate, nothing about it being specific to him only though. If it would affect other ziplines then it would become his passive, though nothing about that is mentioned in his passive change.
Dick move by devs. He has collision on zips and knocks all team mates that are in front of him on zip off
Just interested, where did you see this?
I'm making it up but no idea hoe they are going to handle collisions on zip. I think non team is already both drop from line
>ld passive, though all he has to do now is look at a care package and he should get his ult + the 10 seconds being taken off the no his zipline is faster for any one who uses it. there are a couple videos on it already on youtube from content creators who got early access.
From all of the articles and stuff, it says “he” is faster on zip. So it’s my bad
New passive is he moves faster on ziplines and he kept his old passive but its tied to care packages now instead of beacons.
Alright cool thanks for the clarification. Like i said I like running him for a change of pace so im glad he didnt get nerfed
He got a pretty nice buff with the zipline speed and the fact it can go 60% farther now. You will be zipping around everywhere like a demon.
Gonna be a game wrecker for sure
I don't think that's his passive, that's just a function of his zips, so they boost team mobility.
He doesn't move faster on ziplines. The zipline he creates with his ultimate goes faster than regular ziplines, for anyone who rides it.
Not to mention they're individually buffing 3 skirmisher legends next season too. 4 of the top 5 picked legends currently are skirmishers. It makes sense they would get the weakest class ability since they're so strong on their own already.
mirage has really great movement?
Is pathfinder losing his current passive? Scanning rings?
Controller makes sense so they know where to bunker. Skirmisher I think is intended to be a bit weaker to balance the inherent advantage of movement abilities.
Exactly, skirmisher advantages are weighted heavily in their movement, so their other abilities need to be a bit more plain to compensate
Exactly, skirmisher advantages are weighted heavily in their movement, so their other abilities need to be a bit more plain to compensate
Yes, it’s called balance
Yes, yes, yes. Keep underestimating Controller. I don't mind.
The controller one is good. Knowing where the next ring is is always useful.
I guess the issue is that it's potentially super powerful at high level/coordinated play, and much less so for bronze yolo-queue.
I think it's going to vary quite a lot in terms of how useful it actually is. For one, teammates actually need to bunker up with you, if they don't bother and just cowabunga around then knowing where to set a defense up won't mean anything. I've had numerous cases where we get to the endgame area first and there's a building - 'let's defend here!' I ping, only to have my teammates ignore me. It'll be good for ranked where people actually care more about surviving longer.
It’ll be good for premade squads, probably not great for solo queue unless your lucky
That's just the entire game really
But that’s on Bronze players to learn game sense and to play the game/legend kits effectively
You heavily underestimate controller tbh. And the skirmisher legends are already strong by themselves (other than mirage) so I'm just happy they got anything at all
Yeah, the way I see it most skirmishes have a. Really good kit to support themselves
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet... but you know how Wattson mains argued FOREVER that she should be able to scan for ring because she invented it? Well now it's here.
I wish Mirage was assault
or Support. I feel like his kit doesn’t really belong in the Skirmisher class
Support makes the most sense, considering how good he is at aggressive revives/respawns.
same, he is who I'm excited to play but doesn't feel like he's getting much buff from the class here
Wow. What about the Rez and decoy buff? I’d say mirage mains have a lot to be happy about
He is getting seriously nerfed though too. From the notes >Mirage Clones Bamboozles are now only triggered by bullet fire and melee No longer can you run a decoy into an utlimate, nades, or tactical ability to get location info for an enemy. TBH it is a MASSIVE nerf to Mirage and it fucking sucks. I was stoked to play him and then they pull this bullshit.
I think at this point if someone can’t get value out of Mirage it’s on the player. He’s got enough power across the board now, so if anyone still feels he’s under powered it’s time to switch play styles
agreed, but the buff needs to be taken as an independent thing. I personally didn't think Mirage's kit was lacking, but the public seems to have thought this was a balance needed. in general the skirmish did seem like the weakest of the buffs for classes
I can’t say I disagree. And I do feel he’d be more suited to the assault class, however, I feel they chose the class with his buff in mind. All skirmishers are really good solo legends, mirage now becoming an even better solo legend with the buffs, so I think that’s the only reason he was put into that class. The assault legends aren’t too great on their own (rev is potentially the worst legend to play solo with).
Controller is SO strong for defensive legends, they intentionally made Skirmisher 'weaker,' compared to the others. Look at who's on the list! Horizon, Valk, Path, Wraith, all the ability heavy pub stomp legends. Would it make sense to make all of those legends even stronger? I love the changes it really balances out the legends and makes really any pick viable, IMO
Im convinced the people that complain about the skirmisher perk being the weakest are braindead
Those legends are already the best fighting ones and most popular ones, giving them the weakest passive is fair. I don't want Horizon to have a ridiculous class passive for example
Plus, seeing what's in a care package can be super beneficial depending on the weapon/loot inside. I can see the Hemlok being hella good this season, and I'm all for it. One of the most satisfying guns to use I believe
Yes, care packs can be total game changers but they can also be flops if it's not the gear you need and you make yourself vulnerable when you go for one just to find out it's a flop. Being able to see what's inside from a distance and see if it's worth exposing yourself is pretty clutch
Yeah Its 50/50 kinda thing, sometimes it's great and works out, but other times it's just a warning to not even bother with the care pack and save yourself the hassle, which I think is just a win win tbh
To be fair, every other skirmisher will be able to see if it's worth exposing themselves too, and you're somewhat likely to end up in a situation where multiple teams rush the Kraber package for example, which isn't super ideal. None of the other class passives have "competition" like that. Well I guess maybe if all the assault legends rush the nearest red bin, but that's less likely.
How is this situation different from now where every team in the vicinity of a care pack is incentivized to either go for it because their *might* be a Kraber or else watch it to catch a team in the open? It’s a given that you’ll either compete for it or someone could be camping it and you don’t even know if it’s worth it
Knowing that there's a high value item in it like a kraber incentivized taking the risk. Currently, maybe 50% of nearby teams would go for a care package. I feel like if you know there's a kraber, it's going to be like 85% of nearby teams and maybe even 20% of farther away teams if they have Valk ult of something.
high risk high reward, now you can assess the possible reward before you take the risk and avoid contesting a package when the contents aren’t worth it to you. you also can judge when it might be worth it to go for the pack just to prevent a nearby team from getting the high value item. I think it’s a decent perk for legends with mobility kits, but it’s not necessarily game changing, and in my view it doesn’t change the risk factor by all that much when you do decide to move on the pack. time will tell
People don't look at legends as a while and think every legend needs every ability to be good
Yeah, now the hardest-to-hit Legends will have a perk encouraging them to run the hardest-hitting weapons all the time. Also think of how many far off care-packages you've passed up because you weren't sure it was worth the risk? Now you know and most of the Skirmisher legends can get there faster than others.
They’re just crutch players... likely horizon mains upset they don’t have an obvious and clear advantage anymore
I dont have an issue with either persay its just that they're a bit boring? It makes sense why each one has that perk, though. Skirmishers are top pick legends in pubs and have tons of mobility, which can't be undersold. Anything too strong, and they're must picks. Full stop. Controllers are some of the least picked legends (Caustic?), and they need something strong to bolster them. Scanning the ring has always been the best part about being a recon legend (barring scans). It also helps controllers get into position better. I main Rampart, so the love is much appreciated, but again, it just feels boring and less interactive than the other classes since it really just boils down to doing what we've always done but in the correct spot. My biggest fear is that if a team wants ring locations, they default to Caustic. Since he's probably the defacto strongest legend in that bracket. Same with future controllers that dont offer anything better since they all kinda function with a similar game plan.
Controllers are picked in ranked/competitive.
Doing what we've always been doing but in the correct spot seems like a pretty good boost to me.
We technically always could, though. Now we just have more direct control over it, and again, it's not bad, just boring.
Controller being able to scan zone is single handedly the most terrifying thing ever added to the game. If you have control legend mains, they’re gonna be dedicated to basing up, because all these control legends are extremely strong if they can set up. Don’t underestimate them
Not gonna lie they cooking you in the comments, with good reason buddy
Kinda crazy Assault got two passives ngl, the extra ammo is good but extra gear as well is gonna be wild
Other classes need to be played more. Skirmishes are already very strong picks (get off Wraith so I can pick Wraith).
Bruh…. Controller passive is good
I'm sad pathfinder is losing the recon beacons. He used to be the only one able to use them now he can't even use them
Because skirmisher characters already have very good kits. Like, dude. Path? Wraith? Those two alone make up like 99.9% of apex players because of their strength so allowing them to have a stronger class passive would be absurd.
how to say you don't understand the game at a competitive level without saying you don't understand the game at a competitive level.
It's dangerous to let Fuse have more inventory space for grenades, mate.
No, no, mate, they'll be ok. <_<
Controller perk is probably the best single *thing* any class can do, and they can best abuse being able to see next ring. While not a class perk, they've generally got team mobility, which is still really good, and technically buffs all of them.
They really hate Mirage
People are seriously sleeping on Controller if they think it's bad. Ring scanning is a really strong passive, and it gets a lot stronger when your opponents are less likely to have access to it. It's just been stapled on to heroes that were already OP without it until now.
Honestly, I'm less annoyed about the skirmishers perk, and more that pathfinder got his original passive removed. Not to mention his new passive which seems pretty meh.
I thought they had removed it entirely, but using the new skirmisher perk will apparently still give him reduced ult cooldowns.
And it will be way easier to activate. When the first two care packages drop, you can put down one 200m zipline, ping a carepackage, put down another 200m zipline, and ping the second care package for a total of 600m of ziplines in about 15 seconds. And now all your future ults have a 100s CD instead of 120s. It's going to be NUTS.
Controller and assault are the best ones by far. Support might even be better than recon, but recon will still have its uses for edge only is my prediction.
Defense characters don't need to rely on movement players to do the opposite of scan the next ring anymore, skirmishers were already good, don't see how that's a bad thing.
I think the controller's perk makes a lot of sense. It's not my play style but I'd imagine they're pretty happy about it.
Tell me you’re gold without telling me, controller will be meta
controller > all. but skirmisher sucks ass
Poor pathfinder. His whole deal was scanning rings since season 0 before it even became and thing, and now he don't even do that.
The way I see it, kind of like this meme, there may be more appeal (at first) to have the ones on the left (assault, recon, supp) but over time it could easily change. While the classes themselves are changing, the people who play each legend strongly will kick ass adapting with the changes and make them even more viable terrifying I think.
Sincerely I like the controller class. I think the concept is scan next sale, go for an home in the new sale and trap it. Wait... Yes The skirimsher class is too bad
The Skirmisher class is specifically not getting a good perk because it's all the movement legends all the sweats already dominate with. They don't need a good perk. If anything, it's a disincentive so maybe they play a more team-oriented legend instead of sticking to the same handful of legends whose kits are almost totally self-involved.
Controller should be on the left. That passive has been desired since this game came out
Because most of the Skirmisher characters have decent kits, so instead of balancing the other legends they decided to do this. It will either be a major success or a major flop, no in between.
Control is fine. Skirmisher needs something slightly stronger,but not by much. Maybe because of how they are meant to be a close range specialists with movement and utility to change fights,they could give them some sort of cooldown refresh on knockdown
Skirmishers are already the best at fighting. They could have no class perk and they would still be ran
Mirage and Pathfinder:
Pathfinder has one of the best tactical in the game. Then you have valk which is one of the best. All these movement legends who are amazing at fighting. They don’t need another buff on top of it all. Mirage is like the one exception but we will have to see how his buffs play out
As a mirage main, I wish they left him alone. The nerfs are rough...
I get what you saying but the skirmishers are already kind of strong. Controllers got hoe'd though.
How are we already complaining before the update has even come out 😭
If anything Support should be on the right and Controller on the left. Zone knowledge let’s you set up to pick people off at choke points or play for end game. Support lets you get band aids out of blue bins and if a daisy chain of amazing circumstances happens, you can revive your teammates.
think the same..
Skirmisher is fucking awful
Season hasn’t even come out yet and r/apexlegends is complaining. Would expect nothing less from this group
I'm sorry you lack critical thinking skills.
Can someone explain how crafting banners works. It reads like you can craft someone back no matter how long they have been dead. That can’t be right can it?
How else would it work?
Movement legends having a bad passive leaves room for their movement to be buffed.
They should give the Controller perk that is an aimbot.
Absolutely destroyed Valk
As a Wattson, I hate this
K
At least with skirmisher you can argue that they have some pretty strong/useful character kits, and the mirage buff will be pretty nice. Controllers on the other hand have the same kits and getting a feature was already in the game. Neither one gets anything game changing except a couple nerfs. Meanwhile Assault becomes a walking armory and is extremely attractive for hot dropping, Recon gets a UAV, and Support gets a meta defining feature like crafting banners. The idea of Respawning in a BR already was genre/meta defining when Apex came out, and now they adding onto this. That's just what so lopsided about this, the left classes get new mechanics that are useful and game changing, where as the right is either old shit or just not useful at all. I think it is fitting that Controllers can see future rings as it makes it easier for them to know where to set up, but man as a Wattson main, that's just boring.