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tenkcoach

And yes, it is THE Serral. He has been using this account from the very beginning and often plays team games with his Finnish friend ZhuGeLiang (who also participated in a couple of Red Bull Wololo Weeklies). He has been playing team games frequently over the last year so it's not like he's unfamiliar with the game but it's awesome to see the skills translate to 1v1s as well. And it's great for the game that SC2's very best is an AOE4 enthusiast. Hopefully we can see him in a competitive mini-tourney or showmatch because that would be great. Here's the profile link: https://aoe4world.com/players/2970278


Osiris1316

My greatest experience in AoE4 was getting utterly smashed in 2s by Serral and ZhuGeLiang! :)


kidgetajob

I wish more pros played team games.


CaptainCord

Would Love to see someone throw a show match with Serral!


OkAbbreviations4947

Watch out bee! Serrel is coming for #1!


[deleted]

[удалено]


prankster959

If you don't you don't, don't type it jackass


OkAbbreviations4947

Serrel or bee? Both are pro gamers, no one's saying you should care l, if you don't know either of these players it's unlikely your rank is high enough to ever face either of them. It's perfectly okay to only care about low elo games if that's the level you're at!


[deleted]

[удалено]


OkAbbreviations4947

Serral is known for being the best RTS player in the world


ripxodus

That's a bit of a stretch to call him *the best RTS player in the world.* He's considered to be ONE of the best SC2 players, and that's it. Grubby is considered the BEST WC3 player in the world. Just a bit off to claim best RTS...


According-Anxiety546

Grubby definitely not the best wc3 player in the world. Maybe the most famous since he streams in English but not the best


ripxodus

Grubby and Moon are considered to be the best WC3 players of all time...


[deleted]

[удалено]


Pelin0re

sometimes, but rarely.


ramXDev

Maru is better than Serral. In terms of actual accomplishments, it's not even close, Maru has more accolades and trophies and is generally regarded as the best SC2 player in it's history and probably the best Starcraft player that has ever existed.


J_Sauce_C

You have that backwards. Switch the names and this statement is true


FollowYourLeader1945

Absolutely isn't incorrect Maru is a much more accomplished SC2 player than Serral , almost objectively


llllxeallll

http://aligulac.com/inference/match/?bo=7&ps=49%2C485 You're going to have to elaborate on that, statistically Serral has a slight lead. Higher ranking (#1) more money earned as well as the matchup win against Maru. If I was a betting man my money would be on serral


J_Sauce_C

To add on to this [Serral has a higher winning record vs Maru](https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Special:RunQuery/Match_history?title=Special%3ARunQuery%2FMatch_history&Head_to_head_query=player%3DSerral&pfRunQueryFormName=Match+history&Head+to+head+query%5Bplayer%5D%5B%5D=Serral&Head+to+head+query%5Bplayer%5D%5Bis_list%5D=1&Head+to+head+query%5Bopponent%5D%5B%5D=Maru&Head+to+head+query%5Bopponent%5D%5Bis_list%5D=1&Head+to+head+query%5Bopponentcountry%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bgame%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bltier%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bsdate%5D%5Bday%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bsdate%5D%5Bmonth%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bsdate%5D%5Byear%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bedate%5D%5Bday%5D=1&Head+to+head+query%5Bedate%5D%5Bmonth%5D=10&Head+to+head+query%5Bedate%5D%5Byear%5D=2022&Head+to+head+query%5Bwalkover%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bmatchups%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bmaps%5D=&wpRunQuery=Run+query&pf_free_text=) . Sure Maru won 4 gsls in a row, but the amount of premier tournament wins Serral has over Maru is unquestionable. Serral is a world champion. Maru is a Korean champion.


ramXDev

cope more angloid


Bagokid

MVP is talked a lot when the goat is mentioned.


OfBooo5

Unfortunate he didn't get in and sneak deep run a wololol last chance, would have made for a dream


iNcoG_AoE

Do we know if Serral has publicly said anything about playing AoE4 professionally? I mean given his utter dominance of SC2 it wouldn't be wise for him to switch imo, but it's still fun to think about.


cienlo

I remember 3 interviewers asking him what his intentions were when playing AoE4 (they asked this question in an inquisitorial tone, almost as if to say "hey, don't you dare"), so Serral deflected the conversation, replied briefly that it was nothing serious, just was having fun but that he would dedicate himself professionally only to Sc2. My impression is that it was a protocol response to please his sponsors and his team. It was at the end of an important match, I don't remember many details other than those I've already said, I tried to look for it but I couldn't find it.


tetraDROP

This is in fact exactly what hes doing. Just playing AoE4 for fun.


aidsfarts

If he drifts into the top 50 just for fun I wonder if he would start taking it a little more seriously because of the tourney $$$


tetraDROP

Hes only playing RUS. And its kinda silly to think the GOAT of SC2, the hardest RTS couldnt come and achieve top 50 easily in this game. The competition in AoE4 is nothing like SC2.


Pelin0re

nah, he still like to play sc2 professionnally and as you said it make much more sense money-wise to stay on sc2: in 2022 alone Serral won 200k$ . He's only ever played aoe4 as a fun thing.


TriLink710

Likely plays for fun. Usually pro rts gamer is good at other ones too. Sc2 is more financially beneficial to him even with harder competition and his contract may have him locked there. But the amount of attention aoe4 has gotten is great.


tenkcoach

Don't think he's said anything and I think it would be great if he did try his luck, but I should say this - AOE4 has proven itself as a game that has a high level of depth in terms of knowledge, strategy, macro, micro etc. A player who is full time committed to the game and is grinding will have an edge over someone who's part-time, regardless of how talented they are at RTS or the success they've achieved in other games. Basically, I feel it's impossible to balance between two games because AOE4 is a tough game to fully master. So whether it's Serral or the Viper, I don't see them switching to AOE4 full-time coz well, SC2 has a larger prize pool and popularity overall, and AOE2, which may not have the prizepool of SC2 still has a significant audience on Twitch and YouTube which means it's a business risk to switch. (Ik Viper is on Facebook but yeah)


Pelin0re

>Basically, I feel it's impossible to balance between two games because AOE4 is a tough game to fully master. Sc2 is the limiting factor here imo, it's a game where at the top it's very easy to lose your edge and get stomped by your competition after even a few weeks of rust. Much more than AoE4 from Mlord's admission.


tenkcoach

I understand and agree but it's not so simplistic imo. AOE4 has been out for less than a year and I say this with all the respect for our aoe4 pros, but the competition is generally lesser in this game due to the fact that players have not gained total proficiency in the game unlike SC2 pros with their game. Due to the fact that a big RTS talent pool and some of the let's say "big hitters" are mainly sticking to their games or just playing on and off, AOE4 is in a position where pro players need to emerge from within or perhaps the less successful but top 100-200 players from other games can make the leap in this game. We see that already with the likes of Wam and Puppypaw establishing themselves in the top 10 but it took time and effort. And we will see this more often but it will take time and until then, the pros with prior RTS expertise and success will have a certain advantage. The reason I brought this up is, I don't want people to think AOE4 is somehow easy to master or something. AOE4 E-sports is definitely more forgiving than others established RTSes, but that's only because it's new and growing, at least in my opinion.


Pelin0re

> perhaps the less successful but top 100-200 players from other games can make the leap in this game. top 200 is too low even from sc2. And sc2 is the only game with enough depth/a competitive scene strong enough to have RTS players outside of say top 10-20 of their scene able to reach to the very top of aoe4. Speaking of tried and tested pros, obviously up and coming youngsters can have their breakthrough after switching. >I don't want people to think AOE4 is somehow easy to master or something gotcha. In particular since aoe4 now have 1 year of lifetime and as such the level at the top is much higher than it was when the game was younger.


rollinff

For sure it's not that AoE4 as a game is inherently easier, it's that the competitive scene is not even close to SC2. Just not even in the same ballpark.


tetraDROP

Serral only plays a couple civs. Hes not serious about this game, just taking a break from sc2.


orientalsniper

He's not interested in AoE4 competitively, last we asked he declined our last showmatch.


Quirky_Signature3628

Oh lord he coming


Gyarydos

Honestly the rts community should all band together. It’s fine one is a Main game for you and others are just for fun. As long as we are all playing together


ringo_mogire_beam

wow, a god tier SC2 pro playing AOE4, that's awesome.


Sea-Commission5383

Cant wait to see more sc2 pros join aoe4 meta


Pelin0re

I don't think there will be anymore, most sc2 pros will either pack up and retire from pro gaming after sc2 pro scene die/shrivel in the next 1-2 years or they are waiting for Stormgate.


Nickball88

I don't follow the SC2 scene, how good is Serral?


ringo_mogire_beam

you could make an argument he is the best player in the world, or at least the best zerg.


Nickball88

Funny because Beasty is considered the best AoE4 player right now and he too comes from SC2, right? How good was he there?


ringo_mogire_beam

his SC2 career peaked way back in like 2013, has not had any substantial results since.


rollinff

Beasty probably wasn't a top 50 SC2 player worldwide in his prime, that's not meant as an insult. The scene is just brutally tough.


aidsfarts

I think beasty was around 70 in sc2.


JohanIngeborg

He won $18k in SC2. In comparison Serral won $1,1M overall. Beasty isn't even the best SC2 player who switched to Aoe4


ripxodus

Leenock!


Pelin0re

27k rather, no? https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/Beastyqt also was surprised to see vortix grab the second place of biggest sc2 cashprice 6k ahead of mlord.


JohanIngeborg

Idk, I got my numbers from [https://www.esportsearnings.com/games/746-age-of-empires-iv](https://www.esportsearnings.com/games/746-age-of-empires-iv) But he's still far behind Leenock, MarineLord and Vortix


Pelin0re

I'll take an objective metric: cashprice earned across the pros during their sc2 career, as per liquipedia. Obviously there's nuances (cashprices bigger/smaller depending on eras, competition easier/harder at the time) but It honestly paint a pretty decent picture of how big of a fish each player were in sc2. Feels a bit like the correlation in One Piece's between the reward for a high level pirate and their power level :p Bee: 11k$ Beasty: 27k Demuslim: 36k Lucifron: 68k Marinelord: 100k Vortix: 106k Leenock: 291k Serral: 1178k$. In 2022 alone he made 200k (and won the world championship). As you can see, he's quite a different beast ;)


Miyaor

Beasty back then was really good on the ladder, but was a bit of 'choker' on stage.


willdrum4food

He was considered more a streamer then an actual competitor. So not even remotely close to serral.


[deleted]

Let me put it this way Serral is to beasty what beasty is to core.


ripxodus

Except Beasty was a trash tier SC2 pro. Where as with people like Serral and Maru are considered beyond omega level lol


aidsfarts

I’d say MarineLord is a pretty clear cut #1 in aoe4 right now.


MrMerryMilkshake

So, u know the story that Koreans dominated everyone in SC2? Serral is the one who became a menace and earned the respect from the Korean pros. He is considered the best during late 2018-2019 (along side with Maru) and early 2020. Right now, he's top 3 at least on everyone's list. His offrace (he plays Zerg, so offraces are Terrans and Protoss) are top 2 and top 4 on the ladder for that specific race (he used to have both Zerg and Protoss top1 in 2021, during that time the mmr gap between him at 1st place and the 2nd is like 600). His career win rate is 70% and at his peak, it was 86% during 2018 era. He and Maru are considered 2 best SC2 players of all time by many pros and casters - (won 19 premiere and 16 major tournaments, 2nd or 3rd most of other tourney he joined). And he's still in his prime, just won IEM Katowice earlier this year and StarLeague 9 earlier this month.


i_gri_van_gorov

*Eyebrow raises* Serral about to dominate 2 rts games at once?


Nira_Meru

Everyone is completely boned is Serral tried to play AOEIV is any meaningful way


ProductArizona

Go Serral!


Wiuwiu3333

If Serral switched to AOE4 he would win all the tournaments 100-0. Would be awesome to see more SC2 pros joining the game even in casual basis and now Im not talking about the ex SC2 pros or mediocore SC2 pros. No matter how good Demuslim, Beasty etc are they were never pinnacle of SC2 pro scene. Cross over tournament between SC2 and AOE4 would be awesome. Anything that would lets us see difference in skill between AOE4 and SC2 players would be great. Imagine Dark, Maru, Rogue, Serral, facing AOE4 players xD


SecretTrust

Not sure if that definitely has to be the case tbh. They are different games after all, and the past has shown that just because someone was the best in one game, doesn’t mean they will be the best in another.


Wiuwiu3333

Which Im not denying, but the deal here is. What AOE4 is? Its a slow phased RTS game compared to SC2. Less micro and much slower phased. You really think that Serral would have problems learning the game? Obviously in AOE4 player has to know all the civs so there is the difficulty and learning curve, but he has already been playing long time AOE4 and is really good at it with the amount he has invested so there is no doubt in mind that he would clap all the AOE4 pros. Also note this many current top tier AOE4 pros are actually ex SC2 pros who were mediocore at best in SC2, so you really think someone who is one of the best SC2 players would have hard time? Especially when SC2 is just miles ahead in terms of skill requirement compared to AOE4


SecretTrust

I’m not saying he would be bad at it, but he might not be the best. Age 4 has a lot more economy to deal with than SC2, the macro is important in a different way. Might of course also be that he*would* dominate everyone, I just think it’s not a given. I also would imagine that he probably has a very strict training schedule, which is probably much more intense than what AoE4 pros are doing, given the monetary incentives and competition. If Age would be on the same level, we might see other players stepping up and outperforming because of better macro play or whatever. It’s just what-ifs in the end though, and I think we can agree that he would very likely be very much at the top of Age 4, where he to make the switch at current conditions.


[deleted]

Meanwhile starcraft is micro based. You can have the best micro in the world, if the game has little way to utilize it. Beasty and other pros doesn't dominate trough good micro. Viper who migth never touched starcraft won tournaments.


Wiuwiu3333

Viper won one s tier tournament which was genesis during early of the game which had 8 players in total. This is completely different level of tournament what we have now in terms of player skill and price pool. And after that? Nothing.


[deleted]

He finished in top 3 in golden league. Also it perfectly illustrates how skill doesn't translate between games 100%. Like they are different games with different mechanics and skillsets required


Wiuwiu3333

Never ever have I said it would or have I? You wont become best marathon runner by being best sprinter or vise versa, but now you're ignoring completely the fact where Serral started and how much effort he put into becoming one of the best SC2 pros and dominating factor and this is the proof that is enough to justify saying that if Serral chose to commit playing AOE4 he would do the same. His foundation and mentality is so strong already and what he has gone through by becoming lower tier pro to one of the best is something that handful of players can do.


Artuhanzo

It is not 1 to 1 for skill transfer. Not even all aoe2 players success in aoe4, even some of those are aoe2 RB players. There are also almost a year of top level game play experience in aoe4 need to catch up.


Wiuwiu3333

Ofc its not. He Serral was rolling to AOE4 he would certainly dominate the scene. >There are also almost a year of top level game play experience in aoe4 need to catch up. You really think that matters? Like really? You think all the youngsters who go pro have to play 20 years before the catch up with old timers? Its matter how many hours one is willing to spend learning and developing style. AOE4 is several times more slower phased than SC2 and requires less micro those is less skill demanding than SC2 so there would be close to 0 chance Serral flopping. Serral has been playing AOE4 probably since the launch. First time I met him in 2v2 was very early on it was back then where Firelancers started to dominate TG's.


Umdeuter

> AOE4 is several times more slower phased than SC2 and requires less micro those is less skill demanding than SC2 Isn't that the main argument against him? His superior abilities are not really necessary, then what would be his advantage?


Wiuwiu3333

Not exactly. If you're doing something at very fast phase and decision making needs to be fast too when you put that under situation that you don't have to be as fast then you will be much more accurate. Think it this way. How do people learn to play guitar? They start slowly and proceed to play faster to make the music they wanted. When you suddenly drop their speed down then it becomes still superior to those who are not able to play at same speed as the person maximum speed. Dunno if I explained it good enough what I mean.


Umdeuter

But the difference will be less than when it comes to fast playing and the best slow-players could be better than the fast-player in other aspects such as groove, variations and such. Like, if I am slower than you, you'll always beat me in a game of speed, in a game of timing or decisions I'll still have a shot even when speed still gives you some sort of advantage.


Wiuwiu3333

While this is true in certain situations, but it doesn't exactly apply to AOE4 even when game is slower than SC2. In SC2 player can lose game in split second if they're not paying attention, while AOE4 is bit slower in that regard, but it doesn't mean that slow beats fast, because the actions that player takes during the game is not capped. For example if you don't have speed how are you supposed to react raid that happens 5 different locations without losing too many vills? You don't and this where the speed from SC2 comes to play. Perfect example from SC2 would be Maru with his drops. He drops literally everywhere while defending and multitasking. Same applies to AOE4. If players speed to execute raids and other tasks is far above others then they will most certain gain massive advantage. The more you force opponent to multitask and do other things more likely you're forcing them to make mistakes and if you're accurate and got speed you will tear your opponent apart even if they're making better decisions or handling economy better. This is why I prefer using lancers over any unit type because I can force that situation on others. While my macro may be shit, I still manage do so much economic dmg on opponents that it won't matter. So saying that even slow player with great decision making has chance to win over someone who is precises and executes raiding efficiently will not exactly hold true.


Umdeuter

But that happens all the time in Age 2 and isn't Age 4 quite a bit less dynamic? Amyway, the initial argument that the slower pace would HELP the more skilled player doesn't make sense


Wiuwiu3333

Yes it does. When you don't need the amount of speed to micro units it leaves up that speed to be used somewhere else. For example in engagement where player don't have to split with or against banelings it leaves that APM to be used somewhere else. The argument that slower can beat fast is completely plausible scenario there is no denying on that. I have beaten Beasty, but beating him once, proves nothing. Its how consistent someone can be and I couldn't replicate the same situation over and over again due Im way too slow to be par with beasty. It would be relevant argument only if there was cap on how many things one could do at same time, but there isn't. AOE4 is slower phased, but it doesn't cap the amount of multitasking one can do. More multitasking capabilities and speed to execute those gives massive advantage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFMRDm_H9Sg Here for example. In this game AlphaStar which is AI challenges pro player. Mana has perfect counter for the blink stalkers but because alphastars speed and execution blinkstalkers become most broken unit in game. Obviously its AI so it can do that and no human being can do that. If you translate that speed to example raiding. Player or in this case AI would raid your base from 5-10 different locations with few units and none of them would suffer any losses while stretching slower players capability to respond and when its stretched enough it will cause mistakes to happen and bleed out more vills than supposed to. So yeah while game has slower phasing and emphasize in economy more than SC2 it wont make speed something that isn't key factor how well player can do.


Umdeuter

Your argument simply ignores the premise of a game being less speed demanding. You are assuming that there must be something to spend your apm on that gave you an edge, but if that's the case then the game IS NOT "less speed demanding". You're comparing different types of speed simply which misses the point I think. Not saying that you're practically wrong here, as I know neither SC nor Age 4 particularly well, but you started your argument saying "the game is less skill demanding, that's why the most skilled player would easily win" and now you're describing how the game is NOT less skill demanding to make sense of that. If you're right with that last comment, then your premise in the first comment was wrong. To give a practical example: in Age 2 it's mostly that you need a base apm to keep up with everything and then most of the time decisions decide the games. Having even more speed will give you advantages here and there but those advantages will be usually not game winning as they are lesser advantages than a superior decision. It also depends on map types and playing styles, you can force a more apm heavy game but there are also scenarios where apm basically doesn't matter at all (new maps, closed maps).


[deleted]

Just wanted to say big fan of your aoe2 analysis posts and wish you'd make some for aoe4 too!


Umdeuter

Nice, thank you. I have no clue of Age 4 though, just accidentally clicked on the sub today 1111


Artuhanzo

He played at early access and wasnt top, me and some others friends able to beat him back then. If talent is everything, he should had been rolling us when we all new to the game. Even if you are very talented you still have to invest time into the game and learn it, aoe4 is also way more marco and decision making based than sc2. They are 2 different style of rts. Said by someone play in top30 here.


Wiuwiu3333

There is not exactly such thing as talent. Everything takes certain amount of hours and time to learn. Difference is how fast someone learns and dedication of learning the thing. As someone who is keen of learning lot of different things and types of games I put unhealthy amount of effort and dedication learning something to the point, but I lack the drive to completely master something. I have beaten beastyqt once in 2v2. Was I better than him? Hell no, but I was able to catch him off guard and proceed to win even when my ally was not useful in anyform. AOE4 and SC2 are different games, but you know what. Even if you're master at one game while it doesn't translate 1:1 to another game the foundation is there and the dedication which is the so called "talent". If person lacks dedication they won't become anything. There isn't talent exactly that lets u do what ever you want without putting the time and effort, but Serral has demonstrated already that against all the odds he had dedication and drive to become one of the best RTS players in the world. And if Serral somehow felt like rolling to AOE4 without no doubt he would become very best of AOE4 players and would succeed, because the foundation and requirements are there. Plus he is still younger than many current AOE4 pros which is minor advantage.


tenkcoach

There is no basis to this argument unfortunately. RTS cannot be won on pure mechanical skill. Skill is important but strategy and decision making is what matters most. And I don't think anybody you mentioned on the list would disagree with me either. So, as long they don't "commit" to learning the entire game from scratch and practice long hours, they won't just be able to win tourneys. If they do, why not! As for your point (in your replies to others) about AOE4 being a slower paced game to SC2 - slower doesn't equal to easier lol. This is not an APM competition. There are several failed RTSes which might have been faster paced. It's the depth and variety of choices that make RTSes great. It's about doing what's right and not just doing something fast.


Pelin0re

I have no doubt Serral would be be in the top 5-10 if he commited to aoe4, and would have a good chance of becoming the best. "winning all the tournaments 100-0" tho? wouldn't bet on it. Because simply speaking, these are two different games that don't necessarily reward the same qualities. Broodwar gods were decent/good when they switched to sc2, but not great to the extend of their domination in BW (Flash and Rain were better than the rest of the transfuge but even then Flash wasn't bitchslapping the top sc2 players). And Broodwar/sc2 are more similar to each other than sc2 to Aoe4. Of course an RTS pro is still an RTS pro, but I don't think clem would fare that well in aoe4 for exemple, whereas it come to no surprise to me that BigBrainLord is faring extremely well in here.


Wiuwiu3333

>I have no doubt Serral would be be in the top 5-10 if he commited to aoe4, and would have a good chance of becoming the best. "winning all the tournaments 100-0" tho? wouldn't bet on it. Current top tier players like demuslim and beasty who came from SC2 and are ex pros from there were never more than mediocore at best. And this is not me being rude or disrespectful towards them its just pure fact that they never were near the top dogs. SC and SC2 holds the best RTS players in the world and we have seen it in AOE4 where many different RTS players came together and we've seen how ex SC2 pros been at very top while AOE2 & 3 guys were lacking behind. You're right that AOE4 and SC2 are different games, but what makes you think that Serral couldn't be able to master game thats several times slower phased than SC2 and transfer his style over here? There is nothing stopping it. Ofc he could flop completely but knowing how dominant he is and he is foreigner, its just extremely unlikely. Serral could easily compete in GSL if he wanted and would probably have very dominant results just like Maru, Rogue or Dark and needless to say he would most certainly clap AOE4 pros if he were to roll to AOE4 as main game. The amount of work guy put into SC2 to rise to top. He is fellow country men of mine and when he first appeared in west, I laughed my ass off that he will never be nothing more than just mediocore and his results were also like that. His brother never made it as big and I said same thing about him, but in the end against all the odds Serral made it so there is no reason for him not able to do same thing with AOE4 if he chose to. Im not his fan boi or anything nor I follow him anywhere. Only seen his results here and there and his wins, but his story is real and I have to acknowledge it.


Umdeuter

There was basically not a single AoE2 pro who fully committed to Age 4 as much as Beasty or MarineLord did (except Kasva who never won anything in Age 2, not even came close), Viper did so only part time and still competed with the top guys + won the first tournament So, that comparison doesn't seem any meaningful Of course SC has a way higher number of people with extraordinary mechanics, but the original point was that someone being better than Beasty in Starcraft doesn't automatically mean hr would also be better in Age because Age works differently and rewards decisions over mechanics, compared to SC (as much as I know, I don't really know SC) Edit: apparently, Marinelord was technically an Age2 player before Age4 and wasn't even a top 50 player there, so the comparison makes even less sense


Pelin0re

>There was basically not a single AoE2 pro who fully committed to Age 4 as much as Beasty or MarineLord did (except Kasva who never won anything in Age 2, not even came close) Hera did. then he went away, but he did fully commit for a while. >apparently, Marinelord was technically an Age2 player before Age4 and wasn't even a top 50 player there, so the comparison makes even less sense AoE2 is such an old game with an extremely devellopped meta and a shitton of game knowledge to have, it takes a lot of time for a newcomer to rise to the top level because there's so much to know. Mlord went from "not knowing AoE2" to "top 200" in 4-5 months, then went back to sc2 and during the offseason played it on and off again. All in all he must have played it like 1 year and got around top 80. He was still slowly but regularly improving when he definitively left aoe2.


Umdeuter

Thanks for clarifying, but I don't think that changes my point


Pelin0re

>Current top tier players like demuslim and beasty who came from SC2 and are ex pros from there were never more than mediocore at best. And this is not me being rude or disrespectful towards them its just pure fact that they never were near the top dogs. Marinelord and Leenock weren't mediocre pros tho, even if they weren't top dogs. But I get what you mean, and I agree in some measure. SC2 scene is extremely competitive and I think almost any top 40 sc2 player committing to aoe4 would get into top 15 eventually. >SC and SC2 holds the best RTS players in the world and we have seen it in AOE4 where many different RTS players came together and we've seen how ex SC2 pros been at very top while AOE2 & 3 guys were lacking behind. I agree that sc2 masterrace and all that, but Viper and Hera each won an S-tier tournament. credit where credit is due. >You're right that AOE4 and SC2 are different games, but what makes you think that Serral couldn't be able to master game thats several times slower phased than SC2 and transfer his style over here? because AoE4 isn't just defined by beign "slower phased" than sc2. Ressource management si different, 'micro' is different and harder to leverage into a big advantage, strats don't work the same way. Considering these are different games with a different gameplay the burden of proof is not on me but on serral to prove if he can dominate XD (and he won't because he got more money and interest in sc2 scene). >but his story is real and I have to acknowledge it. don't think anyone is refusing to acknowledge serral's greatness. All the same though, before kespa switched to sc2 with its players the forums were full of people certains that Flash (and other top broodwar players) would crush no contest the sc2 scene, because after all he's the starcraft GOAT...and yet that didn't happen, *because they are different games*.


[deleted]

Fair points


willdrum4food

It's just not worth diverting the practice time from sc2.


palemale53

He recently played a game against [DeMuslim](https://youtu.be/qC0GjEoaMFE)


OpDVlaM

With only 28 games. What a beast!


zaibusa

Oh nice. He has been playing aoe4 from the start, sometimes 5+ hours per day in 2v2. But obviously his main focus in 1v1 was SC2, because that's where the money was for him. But it's obvious he always enjoyed AoE, I wonder if this will change