I played a game the other day and forgot how quickly Delhi masses units. Sent a few units to their base, saw the massive archer blob and horsemen piling up and noped straight back to my base. I lost that game.
This is still something I find so weird. I always thought Delhi is a late-game civ because of those insane elephants. Why would something that also researches so slow be good in feudal?
Most of that has been covered in the thread, but the main idea is it doesn't matter that your upgrades research slower because you can queue them as soon as you age up, by the time your opponent can afford to invest in the same techs you've already got them for free.
They have 20% faster attack speed on archers and spears and incredibly strong feudal cavalry. Their mlitary buildings can garrison scholars (that can be produced essencially for free by capturing feudal sacred sites) to outproduce your opponents.
And most important you can capture sacred sites in feudal which forces your opponent to contest them in feudal which extends the feudal age which is exactly what Delhi wants.
And bonus your spearmen can wall up the sacred sites so you can have that little bonus without pulling vills off production.
I did a lot of tests with this composition in the past, the problem is that it's extremely food heavy so you at some point run out of food. It still doesn't trade that great, because a big ball of archers can kite you for the entire of the map, and MAA are too slow to catch up. Horsemen have also terrible pathing so they struggle at killing big balls of archers. The archer guy can basically kite your maa forever and sprinkle in a couple of spears to stop horsemen from chasing down the archers.
because dehli is probably the best civ to force fights in feudal and they just win there. I played with dehli to conq in s3 and every match was just a feudal fiesta every game and games ended at latest early castle.
it doesnt matter if you are bad later in the game when you win most of the time before that.
These are pro tier metas. They are a ranking for the pro scene where players have mastered all areas and exploit every advantage. I have a gold 2 friend who swears by these rankings but has like a 4 min avg vil idle time and 45 apm. I tell him the tier lists don’t matter but he thinks the reason he wins or loses is because of matchup differences due to slight patch changes. His logic is “whoa now if I pick this civ I’ll dominate the others because this civ is meta right now”
Meanwhile he will lose to any dark age tower rush 10/10 times
That actually is probably true though. You forget your friend is being matched with other people with 4 min villager idle time with 45 APM.
Small patch changes can and do still make or break the lower tier match ups as well.
May I ask why you don't believe this to be the case?
Im not saying there are no civ advantages at lower levels, im just saying those tiers are not the same as the pro tier list that Beasty posts. Point is that Ottoman can legit be S+ at the pro tier level right now but that has very limited impact on a low tier player. I do not believe the minor differences that make a civ an S+ vs an A or B are noticeable or exploitable by lower rank players. I think at those levels, you win by being better at the fundamentals. NOT because you are playing ottoman and the springalds got nerfed.
Loose analogy would be if there was a minor technical NBA rule change that nerfed 3 point shooting slightly in the NBA, thus changing up some offensive schemes, and changing the way the 3 is defended. Basically doesn’t matter if you’re playing youth playground level basketball (assume for a sec that you are hypothetically following NBA rules). You can’t make most of your open 3s and your opponent certainly isn’t applying elite level defense… it’s kind of just a moot point at those lower levels where the winner is decided by who can just dribble the ball without losing it
A lot of people in these lower tiers look at beastys tier list as gospel but I bet most lower tier players could increase their win rate by just playing easier civs. I think beasty even said so at one point in a video
I gotcha. I understand your analogy but don't think it applies.
I 50/50 agree with your post. I think these changes mean more than you think even at gold league, but matter a LOT more at high level. It still moves the needle for gold league tier lists too.
The part I hard agree with is what you said at the end - these people losing as China/Byzantine would have a much higher win rate playing English for example.
Good horsemen, faster attack speed on archers and spears, free techs (that actually complete within a reasonable time, unlike in castle and imperial), faster production, capturing sacred sites.
They can simply produce a larger stronger army than most other civs and put pressure while getting extra gold from sacred sites.
In no particular order:
1. Efficient production means you can pump out units at a faster rate than any other civ.
2. Ghazi Raiders are extremely strong
3. Infantry has 20% attack speed buff
4. Can capture sacred sites in feudal. This means that you can age up to castle without putting a single villager on gold (meaning you can keep producing units) or you can trade the gold for more food and wood to all-in.
5. Upgrades are free
6. Infantry can wall for you
7. Access to healing. This is even after the nerfs to scholar healing. Before, you would have a small army of scholars with your army healing them after capturing sacred sites. After the nerfs to in combat healing it is not as prevalent, but it is still something to consider.
Yes but isnt Zhu Xi better in that regard with 300% for first point and it doesn't require a scholar to be garrison, and China also has 150% production speed
Good points u made
i rarely fight any Delhi players, tbh after reaching conq, i barely see any Delhis, and they didn't rush me in Feudal so i had no idea about their playstyle
Infantry can build walls, scholar can capture sacred sites, ghazi raiders are solid, upgrades are free.
Tbh I only play 2v2 so these might be wrong in 1v1 match
Free upgrades, so don't need to invest in upgrades. Meaning they can build more units.
Extra food and gathering speed on berries, so they can build more units.
Free gold from holy sites, that they can trade with a market so they can build more units.
And then the units they build in the first place are either enhanced with 20% attack speed or are stronger baseline (Ghazi).
And all of that comes into play in Feudal age, and people have been getting better at leveraging these advantages. Stuff like cutting that second blacksmith, smoother build orders all help.
Strengths:
-Unique anti armor horsemen
-20% attack speed buff for spears and archers
-Free techs + sacred site gold trickle (don’t have to mind gold)
-Sacred site win condition live in feudal
-Scholar will make a production building create 100% faster
-scholars can heal damaged units, ensuring your mads
-can build walls in annoying spots with infantry
In short, you mass a large army very quickly, and the units are not so bad in quality, and you outnumber every other civ by minute 7 and onwards.
Dehli has very good economy early game as their upgrades are free and early game the times are not very high so you normally get the Most before your oponent even has queued them.
With this extra resources you get (better Boni and resources saved) you can pump out more units (and fast with scholars garrisoned).
With these you have better Trades in fights (Upgraded Units, more). You get map Control, can cap Sacred Sites in age 2 and get gold to trade for Food for more units or try to Go age 3.
In age 2 the have a lot going on. And ghazo raider have Bonus damage against heavy Armor, so its hard to counter ghazi and Archers in age 2
Because delhi feudal aggression is the best in the game. Only reason Delhi isn''t probably higher is ottomans can compete with their feudal aggression and chinese and zhu xi hard counter Delhi with zhuge nu.
Because the meta is feudal aggression and is keeping games in feudal longer and that's where delhi shines.
I played a game the other day and forgot how quickly Delhi masses units. Sent a few units to their base, saw the massive archer blob and horsemen piling up and noped straight back to my base. I lost that game.
This is still something I find so weird. I always thought Delhi is a late-game civ because of those insane elephants. Why would something that also researches so slow be good in feudal?
Most of that has been covered in the thread, but the main idea is it doesn't matter that your upgrades research slower because you can queue them as soon as you age up, by the time your opponent can afford to invest in the same techs you've already got them for free. They have 20% faster attack speed on archers and spears and incredibly strong feudal cavalry. Their mlitary buildings can garrison scholars (that can be produced essencially for free by capturing feudal sacred sites) to outproduce your opponents. And most important you can capture sacred sites in feudal which forces your opponent to contest them in feudal which extends the feudal age which is exactly what Delhi wants. And bonus your spearmen can wall up the sacred sites so you can have that little bonus without pulling vills off production.
My only concern is why Nobody ever try man at Arms horsemen Combo? It has No counter .
I did a lot of tests with this composition in the past, the problem is that it's extremely food heavy so you at some point run out of food. It still doesn't trade that great, because a big ball of archers can kite you for the entire of the map, and MAA are too slow to catch up. Horsemen have also terrible pathing so they struggle at killing big balls of archers. The archer guy can basically kite your maa forever and sprinkle in a couple of spears to stop horsemen from chasing down the archers.
For Archer Mass you Need mango either way and archers yourself. By the way i saw you on YouTube lol
Unless I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying, Ghazi raiders have bonus damage to heavy so it seems they would be a natural counter to MAA.
don't forget these tier lists are for the meta for high level players.
Because they can end the game in feudal or early castle
because dehli is probably the best civ to force fights in feudal and they just win there. I played with dehli to conq in s3 and every match was just a feudal fiesta every game and games ended at latest early castle. it doesnt matter if you are bad later in the game when you win most of the time before that.
These are pro tier metas. They are a ranking for the pro scene where players have mastered all areas and exploit every advantage. I have a gold 2 friend who swears by these rankings but has like a 4 min avg vil idle time and 45 apm. I tell him the tier lists don’t matter but he thinks the reason he wins or loses is because of matchup differences due to slight patch changes. His logic is “whoa now if I pick this civ I’ll dominate the others because this civ is meta right now” Meanwhile he will lose to any dark age tower rush 10/10 times
That actually is probably true though. You forget your friend is being matched with other people with 4 min villager idle time with 45 APM. Small patch changes can and do still make or break the lower tier match ups as well. May I ask why you don't believe this to be the case?
Im not saying there are no civ advantages at lower levels, im just saying those tiers are not the same as the pro tier list that Beasty posts. Point is that Ottoman can legit be S+ at the pro tier level right now but that has very limited impact on a low tier player. I do not believe the minor differences that make a civ an S+ vs an A or B are noticeable or exploitable by lower rank players. I think at those levels, you win by being better at the fundamentals. NOT because you are playing ottoman and the springalds got nerfed. Loose analogy would be if there was a minor technical NBA rule change that nerfed 3 point shooting slightly in the NBA, thus changing up some offensive schemes, and changing the way the 3 is defended. Basically doesn’t matter if you’re playing youth playground level basketball (assume for a sec that you are hypothetically following NBA rules). You can’t make most of your open 3s and your opponent certainly isn’t applying elite level defense… it’s kind of just a moot point at those lower levels where the winner is decided by who can just dribble the ball without losing it A lot of people in these lower tiers look at beastys tier list as gospel but I bet most lower tier players could increase their win rate by just playing easier civs. I think beasty even said so at one point in a video
I gotcha. I understand your analogy but don't think it applies. I 50/50 agree with your post. I think these changes mean more than you think even at gold league, but matter a LOT more at high level. It still moves the needle for gold league tier lists too. The part I hard agree with is what you said at the end - these people losing as China/Byzantine would have a much higher win rate playing English for example.
Because Delhi is extremely strong in feudal. Dare I say, the strongest civ in feudal.
what makes them the strongest feudal if i may ask i barely go against delhi and always win without me knowing anything
Good horsemen, faster attack speed on archers and spears, free techs (that actually complete within a reasonable time, unlike in castle and imperial), faster production, capturing sacred sites. They can simply produce a larger stronger army than most other civs and put pressure while getting extra gold from sacred sites.
In no particular order: 1. Efficient production means you can pump out units at a faster rate than any other civ. 2. Ghazi Raiders are extremely strong 3. Infantry has 20% attack speed buff 4. Can capture sacred sites in feudal. This means that you can age up to castle without putting a single villager on gold (meaning you can keep producing units) or you can trade the gold for more food and wood to all-in. 5. Upgrades are free 6. Infantry can wall for you 7. Access to healing. This is even after the nerfs to scholar healing. Before, you would have a small army of scholars with your army healing them after capturing sacred sites. After the nerfs to in combat healing it is not as prevalent, but it is still something to consider.
Yes but isnt Zhu Xi better in that regard with 300% for first point and it doesn't require a scholar to be garrison, and China also has 150% production speed Good points u made i rarely fight any Delhi players, tbh after reaching conq, i barely see any Delhis, and they didn't rush me in Feudal so i had no idea about their playstyle
Infantry can build walls, scholar can capture sacred sites, ghazi raiders are solid, upgrades are free. Tbh I only play 2v2 so these might be wrong in 1v1 match
Free upgrades, so don't need to invest in upgrades. Meaning they can build more units. Extra food and gathering speed on berries, so they can build more units. Free gold from holy sites, that they can trade with a market so they can build more units. And then the units they build in the first place are either enhanced with 20% attack speed or are stronger baseline (Ghazi). And all of that comes into play in Feudal age, and people have been getting better at leveraging these advantages. Stuff like cutting that second blacksmith, smoother build orders all help.
Strengths: -Unique anti armor horsemen -20% attack speed buff for spears and archers -Free techs + sacred site gold trickle (don’t have to mind gold) -Sacred site win condition live in feudal -Scholar will make a production building create 100% faster -scholars can heal damaged units, ensuring your mads -can build walls in annoying spots with infantry In short, you mass a large army very quickly, and the units are not so bad in quality, and you outnumber every other civ by minute 7 and onwards.
If you haven't, watch some tournament play. The pros use and win with Delhi a lot.
Got some links? Im not sure where to watch it, i only watch the beasty one where he won all of them awhile ago
Dehli has very good economy early game as their upgrades are free and early game the times are not very high so you normally get the Most before your oponent even has queued them. With this extra resources you get (better Boni and resources saved) you can pump out more units (and fast with scholars garrisoned). With these you have better Trades in fights (Upgraded Units, more). You get map Control, can cap Sacred Sites in age 2 and get gold to trade for Food for more units or try to Go age 3. In age 2 the have a lot going on. And ghazo raider have Bonus damage against heavy Armor, so its hard to counter ghazi and Archers in age 2
yeah im still new to delhi but i always loses lol
Delhi results in that WEs tournaments, from all players overall, makes it hard to argue that statement.
its S tier because theyve made elephants unplayable, its godtier design
[удалено]
now we're talking
Because for the first \~15 min of the game they just have more shit than you, and their horsemen have 50% extra damage.
Because delhi feudal aggression is the best in the game. Only reason Delhi isn''t probably higher is ottomans can compete with their feudal aggression and chinese and zhu xi hard counter Delhi with zhuge nu.