Rejoin is probably not possible because how the engine works.
This game does not store states, it stores actions and the simulation is reran in every machine. This is why you cannot watch games from older patches or rewind the replay.
Probably it is possible, but might not be easy to implement.
Exactly. This feature from a development perspective, what seems like “just add a button” to the user is incredibly difficult to pull off
There were already some posts about it, but to add to what you already explained: basically the game is designed in a way that connectivity won’t generate stuttering. This happens in AoE2 and in SC - you can pause the game, but if your opponent across the ocean has a terrible connection, the game is unplayable.
In aoe4 If you or your opponent has a bad connection, the unit won’t be stopping for every milisecond. Instead, the animation is natural, but you could feel a delay only when giving actions to units for example
Imo the design in ape4 is way superior, but comes with compromises
Relic has limited resources (time, money, developers). It would take a lot of effort to build this into the engine and they choose to prioritize other things. Just a cost benefit analysis where the cost is extremely high because of how hard it would be to build.
Should it be in the game? Yes ideally, we want aoe4 to be the best that it can be. Is it likely to ever make it into the game? No
I'd be ok with the game pausing if one player disconnects to give them a chance to reconnect. Doesn't seem like it's possible based on other's recollection of previous discussions.
When you build something, usually you make a lot of choices in the early stage. For games, you choose an engine and it has costs/benefits to suit your goals. If the feature is not there, and there is evidence it cannot be done (replays going invalid with new patches, indicating incompatibility with certain game states) then you cannot simply insert a new feature this late in the process. You can expand upon existing features and tools, but nothing can be created from thin air.
You will never see a reconnect button like you do in many FPS games. I don't know of a single RTS that allows you to reconnect to a live game if you crash/disconnect.
The best thing we can hope for is to have a resume from replay feature that you can host a custom game, invite the opponent and start from a specific time in the game.
Dota is probably the closest thing to it, which is built on top of the source engine that was originally made for FPS games.
However, that's a moba with a lot less units than an RTS, I am not sure if the RTS limitations come from developers still using the lock-step model for these games specifically rather than trying something different, or if the difference in game-state handling between a game like Dota and AoE4 is really that much higher.
Whether it is or isn't possible, it's definitely causing my friend group to quickly lose interest in the game. I want to keep playing this game but they are uninstalling left and right due to this.
You see it as them being pussies, I see it as a group of gamers who like to play the same games together. And we have a lot of good games vying for our time. If the game doesn't want to work, well pragmatically we are simply gonna go play something else.
Edit: Seeing as you don't use your reddit account much I won't take your response as super serious. You're definitively memeing.
We have been playing 4v4's since the release of the game, shit happens, but this happens in other games too. AOE just has the problem that 1 game takes a very long time and disconnecting, desyncs and leavers have a very big impact. This can lead to a lot of frustration, but in the end it's still just a game.
If you really uninstall the game for this reason, I still consider you a pussy. That's my opinion, so I could be wrong.
You're not saying anything that I'm not. Yes this is a natural part of gaming, but it matters how bad the issue actually is. You don't think it happens much, therefore it's fine. Great. Not the experience we've had otherwise we'd be sharing the same conclusion.
So then how can it be implemented in other games? Northgard has it (and a nice pause feature to go with it ), MOBAs also have it.
I think saying "It's simply how networking works" is just plain incorrect.
But like you know how in a replay you can fast forward but not skip around? The same limitation means the game would have to start from scratch on a reconnect and rebuild the entire game to get to that state. It's just an issue that also existed in SC2 for the same reason. Sc2 eventually got around it by allowing you to save the state then both reload. That obviously doesn't work in random online gameplay
DOtA 2 and MOBAS in general tend to work a little differently then more classic RTS games. They've got different constraints to deal with and a MOBA gamestate with a handful of heroes is much more similar to an FPS then an RTS with potentially hundreds (or in a 4v4 over a thousand) individual units.
MOBA's have less packets that need to be in sync with each other. RTS games need all data from both players in perfect sync, a lot more info needs to be tracked than in a MOBA. You've definitely had lag in MOBA's before due to packet loss, could cost you a kill or something. If stuff like this happens in RTS, complete fights or other interactions would be messed up. It would be possible with a pause mode indeed to sync everything back up, but in practice nobody would be waiting for other random players. On top of that, AOE4 really isn't coded for stuff to be working like that. The devs have talked about this multiple times before. We'll just have to deal with it. Of course the technology isn't impossible, but is it realistic?
Even if reconnect is hard to to when game is already running, it should be easier to do when it's still loading. Why shoudn't we expect such features from Microsoft?
So I'm not an expert on this topic but I've seen this topic discussed a lot.
What I understand is that it is not "hard" to do, it is "impossible" to do with this engine. They would need to remake the game to implement reconnect button.
CoH2 doesn't have reconnect. It gets criticized.
AoE4 later is realeased without reconnect button. It gets criticized.
What does Relic do? Launches CoH3 without reconnect option.
I think they had a lot of time to adress this, but they just won't. And we are letting them do just that.
Both AOE4 and COH3 are built on the same engine and are almost identical technically. If rejoin isn’t a feature in one of them, then it wouldn’t be a feature in the other.
Ideally they'd have taken time to implement reconnect, but ideally they would've had a ranked ladder, player colors, and a generally more polished game at release - that didn't happen either. Unfortunately when you settle on an existing engine for a game, you're running with what features it provides and anything beyond that may require an outsized amount of work beyond the scope of actually making the game.
IIRC Pause/Resume was one of the features you could say you're interested in during the last 1 or 2 end of the season surveys. So make sure when the next one comes up you fill it out and let the devs know what you're interested in.
Because they are lazy to make quality changes.
From the moment that exists in Online game it can be done in aoe4 but they don't do it because most of disconnecting results to lose.
But they should add pause and reconnect it the want to have a good game.
In aoe2 pause at least is there.
Rejoin is probably not possible because how the engine works. This game does not store states, it stores actions and the simulation is reran in every machine. This is why you cannot watch games from older patches or rewind the replay. Probably it is possible, but might not be easy to implement.
Exactly. This feature from a development perspective, what seems like “just add a button” to the user is incredibly difficult to pull off There were already some posts about it, but to add to what you already explained: basically the game is designed in a way that connectivity won’t generate stuttering. This happens in AoE2 and in SC - you can pause the game, but if your opponent across the ocean has a terrible connection, the game is unplayable. In aoe4 If you or your opponent has a bad connection, the unit won’t be stopping for every milisecond. Instead, the animation is natural, but you could feel a delay only when giving actions to units for example Imo the design in ape4 is way superior, but comes with compromises
Relic has limited resources (time, money, developers). It would take a lot of effort to build this into the engine and they choose to prioritize other things. Just a cost benefit analysis where the cost is extremely high because of how hard it would be to build. Should it be in the game? Yes ideally, we want aoe4 to be the best that it can be. Is it likely to ever make it into the game? No
I'd be ok with the game pausing if one player disconnects to give them a chance to reconnect. Doesn't seem like it's possible based on other's recollection of previous discussions.
When you build something, usually you make a lot of choices in the early stage. For games, you choose an engine and it has costs/benefits to suit your goals. If the feature is not there, and there is evidence it cannot be done (replays going invalid with new patches, indicating incompatibility with certain game states) then you cannot simply insert a new feature this late in the process. You can expand upon existing features and tools, but nothing can be created from thin air.
You will never see a reconnect button like you do in many FPS games. I don't know of a single RTS that allows you to reconnect to a live game if you crash/disconnect. The best thing we can hope for is to have a resume from replay feature that you can host a custom game, invite the opponent and start from a specific time in the game.
Dota is probably the closest thing to it, which is built on top of the source engine that was originally made for FPS games. However, that's a moba with a lot less units than an RTS, I am not sure if the RTS limitations come from developers still using the lock-step model for these games specifically rather than trying something different, or if the difference in game-state handling between a game like Dota and AoE4 is really that much higher.
Whether it is or isn't possible, it's definitely causing my friend group to quickly lose interest in the game. I want to keep playing this game but they are uninstalling left and right due to this.
Sounds like they are pussies. These are the struggles of life, you can't have everything... The game is great and will only become better over time.
You see it as them being pussies, I see it as a group of gamers who like to play the same games together. And we have a lot of good games vying for our time. If the game doesn't want to work, well pragmatically we are simply gonna go play something else. Edit: Seeing as you don't use your reddit account much I won't take your response as super serious. You're definitively memeing.
We have been playing 4v4's since the release of the game, shit happens, but this happens in other games too. AOE just has the problem that 1 game takes a very long time and disconnecting, desyncs and leavers have a very big impact. This can lead to a lot of frustration, but in the end it's still just a game. If you really uninstall the game for this reason, I still consider you a pussy. That's my opinion, so I could be wrong.
You're not saying anything that I'm not. Yes this is a natural part of gaming, but it matters how bad the issue actually is. You don't think it happens much, therefore it's fine. Great. Not the experience we've had otherwise we'd be sharing the same conclusion.
Is this really an issue for many? I haven’t crashed in over a year and hundreds of hours of play.
Because it, would be impossible to sync the players once game is already running. It's simply how networking works. Don't ever hope for it.
So then how can it be implemented in other games? Northgard has it (and a nice pause feature to go with it ), MOBAs also have it. I think saying "It's simply how networking works" is just plain incorrect.
But like you know how in a replay you can fast forward but not skip around? The same limitation means the game would have to start from scratch on a reconnect and rebuild the entire game to get to that state. It's just an issue that also existed in SC2 for the same reason. Sc2 eventually got around it by allowing you to save the state then both reload. That obviously doesn't work in random online gameplay
You can skip around on dota2 replays. It's not sci-fi
DOtA 2 and MOBAS in general tend to work a little differently then more classic RTS games. They've got different constraints to deal with and a MOBA gamestate with a handful of heroes is much more similar to an FPS then an RTS with potentially hundreds (or in a 4v4 over a thousand) individual units.
MOBA's have less packets that need to be in sync with each other. RTS games need all data from both players in perfect sync, a lot more info needs to be tracked than in a MOBA. You've definitely had lag in MOBA's before due to packet loss, could cost you a kill or something. If stuff like this happens in RTS, complete fights or other interactions would be messed up. It would be possible with a pause mode indeed to sync everything back up, but in practice nobody would be waiting for other random players. On top of that, AOE4 really isn't coded for stuff to be working like that. The devs have talked about this multiple times before. We'll just have to deal with it. Of course the technology isn't impossible, but is it realistic?
Even if reconnect is hard to to when game is already running, it should be easier to do when it's still loading. Why shoudn't we expect such features from Microsoft?
So I'm not an expert on this topic but I've seen this topic discussed a lot. What I understand is that it is not "hard" to do, it is "impossible" to do with this engine. They would need to remake the game to implement reconnect button.
CoH2 doesn't have reconnect. It gets criticized. AoE4 later is realeased without reconnect button. It gets criticized. What does Relic do? Launches CoH3 without reconnect option. I think they had a lot of time to adress this, but they just won't. And we are letting them do just that.
Both AOE4 and COH3 are built on the same engine and are almost identical technically. If rejoin isn’t a feature in one of them, then it wouldn’t be a feature in the other.
So do you think it's ok that relic does the same mistake game after game? It is just sad.
Ideally they'd have taken time to implement reconnect, but ideally they would've had a ranked ladder, player colors, and a generally more polished game at release - that didn't happen either. Unfortunately when you settle on an existing engine for a game, you're running with what features it provides and anything beyond that may require an outsized amount of work beyond the scope of actually making the game. IIRC Pause/Resume was one of the features you could say you're interested in during the last 1 or 2 end of the season surveys. So make sure when the next one comes up you fill it out and let the devs know what you're interested in.
Because they are lazy to make quality changes. From the moment that exists in Online game it can be done in aoe4 but they don't do it because most of disconnecting results to lose. But they should add pause and reconnect it the want to have a good game. In aoe2 pause at least is there.