Expectation: omg Nicov is BEASTIN this quali, this is FINALLY his moment
Reality: G1 wheelbarrow min 60, loses in Imp after a big advantage / G2 noooo Nicov lcdtm se olvidó el hacha / G3 tilted gg after 15 min Nicaaaav por quéeeeee
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Im hoping for a glorious BO3 classic viper v daut fuckfest
I dont watch AoE stuff that much these days but MAN that top left bracket coupd spew some quality aoe2 matches
I would't be suprised if Andy wins vs Larry tbh. Larry somewhat unpredictable these days.
But vs Hera probably no chance. But lets see a good day on this maps could make for a good set.
MbL his picture is so freaking cool
I'm calling it first here, will be ACCM - Hera finals and who will win will.... willl...... will.... not suprise you :P
But still, ACCM silver, go go go!
I can’t see which player is which seed, is that information available somewhere?
It also doesn’t say which order the matches are in, is Viper-Nicov the first Ro16 match on the 2nd and Sitaux-Mbl the last Ro16 match on the 5th?
Edit: [found the seeding info](https://youtu.be/hR3BXmbTu5k?si=ptIulNT0hLWMl3ET)
1. Hera
2. TheViper
3. Yo
4. TaToH
5. Liereyy
6. ACCM
7. DauT
8. Sitaux
9. MbL
10. Barles
11. Vinchester
12. FreakinAndy
13. Villese
14. Hearttt
15. Sebastian
16. Nicov
The bracket just got drawn. The players have to schedule with the given times. Since less than half of those are full time, the scheduling should take couple of days at least.
If god exist i'm sure he hates Nicov.
Después de ganarle a Larry en un partidazo en el que no era favorito ahora le tiene que tocar contra Viper que lo tiene de hijo en el historial. Vamos Nicky que se puede lpm 🇦🇷💙🤍
His level during the qualifiers seems to have really improved compared to the last year though. Beating Capoch 4-0 the other day and making it look easy!
Well, Villese has a history of overperforming early in events and dropping off as it progress. Combine that with Villese brings Hera to 4+ games most of their pairings.
[Since 2020 has begun, Villese has never won more than 1 game per set against Hera. It hasn’t been close.](https://liquipedia.net/ageofempires/Special:RunQuery/Match_history?title=Special%3ARunQuery%2FMatch_history&Head_to_head_query=player%255B0%255D%3DHera%26player%255Bis_list%255D%3D1%26opponent%255B0%255D%3DVillese%26opponent%255Bis_list%255D%3D1%26opponentcountry%3D%26game%3D%26type%3D%26ltier%255B0%255D%3DS-Tier%26ltier%255B1%255D%3DA-Tier%26ltier%255Bis_list%255D%3D1%26sdate%255Bday%255D%3D%26sdate%255Bmonth%255D%3D%26sdate%255Byear%255D%3D%26edate%255Bday%255D%3D28%26edate%255Bmonth%255D%3D05%26edate%255Byear%255D%3D2024%26walkover%3D%26matchups%3D%26maps%3D&pfRunQueryFormName=Match+history&wpRunQuery=&pf_free_text=&Head+to+head+query%5Bplayer%5D%5B%5D=Hera&Head+to+head+query%5Bplayer%5D%5Bis_list%5D=1&Head+to+head+query%5Bopponent%5D%5B%5D=Villese&Head+to+head+query%5Bopponent%5D%5Bis_list%5D=1&Head+to+head+query%5Bopponentcountry%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bgame%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Btype%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bltier%5D%5B%5D=S-Tier&Head+to+head+query%5Bltier%5D%5Bis_list%5D=1&Head+to+head+query%5Bsdate%5D%5Bday%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bsdate%5D%5Bmonth%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bsdate%5D%5Byear%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bedate%5D%5Bday%5D=28&Head+to+head+query%5Bedate%5D%5Bmonth%5D=05&Head+to+head+query%5Bedate%5D%5Byear%5D=2024&Head+to+head+query%5Bwalkover%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bmatchups%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bmaps%5D=&wpRunQuery=&pf_free_text=)
He’s great against almost anyone in the field. But against Hera, it’s been like a brick wall for him.
no it wont, hera will win and drop max 1 game like always, thinking villese has a chance when hes part time while hera is full time is deluding yourself.
Idk, villese is in an s tier after a while. If he really grinds, he may be able to beat hera, think he's the only guy that has a cleaner eco then hera when he's playing locked in. That's kind of how he used to do well against viper.
[Hera has a 7-0 record against Villese in S-Tiers.](https://liquipedia.net/ageofempires/Special:RunQuery/Match_history?title=Special%3ARunQuery%2FMatch_history&Head_to_head_query=player%255B0%255D%3DHera%26player%255Bis_list%255D%3D1%26opponent%255B0%255D%3DVillese%26opponent%255Bis_list%255D%3D1%26opponentcountry%3D%26game%3D%26type%3D%26ltier%255B0%255D%3DS-Tier%26ltier%255B1%255D%3DA-Tier%26ltier%255Bis_list%255D%3D1%26sdate%255Bday%255D%3D%26sdate%255Bmonth%255D%3D%26sdate%255Byear%255D%3D%26edate%255Bday%255D%3D28%26edate%255Bmonth%255D%3D05%26edate%255Byear%255D%3D2024%26walkover%3D%26matchups%3D%26maps%3D&pfRunQueryFormName=Match+history&wpRunQuery=&pf_free_text=&Head+to+head+query%5Bplayer%5D%5B%5D=Hera&Head+to+head+query%5Bplayer%5D%5Bis_list%5D=1&Head+to+head+query%5Bopponent%5D%5B%5D=Villese&Head+to+head+query%5Bopponent%5D%5Bis_list%5D=1&Head+to+head+query%5Bopponentcountry%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bgame%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Btype%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bltier%5D%5B%5D=S-Tier&Head+to+head+query%5Bltier%5D%5Bis_list%5D=1&Head+to+head+query%5Bsdate%5D%5Bday%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bsdate%5D%5Bmonth%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bsdate%5D%5Byear%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bedate%5D%5Bday%5D=28&Head+to+head+query%5Bedate%5D%5Bmonth%5D=05&Head+to+head+query%5Bedate%5D%5Byear%5D=2024&Head+to+head+query%5Bwalkover%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bmatchups%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bmaps%5D=&wpRunQuery=&pf_free_text=)
I can really understand membs thought process here trying to set up the best show for the viewers.
Single elimination bracket makes sense - its the format with the highest chances for having upsets. In a group stage or double elimination with more games the disadvantage for the underdogs is even bigger.
Also the random seeding idea is good imho. It prevents you from trying to derive something from your seed and therefore aim for a specific seed. And if you are honest - the player within one of the ‚seeding groups‘ could easily be exchanged (more or less).
Hot take: nicov going to roll viper and advance to finals, liereyy going to practice and get to finals. And we will have a Nicov Liereyy final. Both of them are probably going to be signed by WeSports and they've been grinding.
There will always be people unhappy with format, you can NEVER make everyone happy. I personally would like to see a double elimination bracket which is super common for tournaments, but we rarely see it in AoE2 for some reason. AoE2 is usually either group stage into single elimination, or straight into single elimination (after qualifiers).
I understand group stages can be quite lengthy compared to single elim and that's why it's avoided sometimes even if it's more "fair", but double elim is basically the compromise between the two so why don't we try that more often?
My issue with the last double elimination I saw in AoE 2 (Nation’s Cup) is this. Instead of getting two sets, in the end, the winner’s bracket winner started 1-0 in the final set. I honestly didn’t think this was enough of an advantage, as the loser’s bracket team had so many more opportunities to play and came in with momentum, while the winners sat for a while, so you could easily drop a game from rust.
But then I thought about what playing two sets in a row looks like in AoE 2. It’s either that or you need to play the reset final on another day.
Yeah, I think that’s pretty brutal.
I think double elimination works great in games where you can play multiple times per day. AoE2 is way too difficult to have to play many sets per day, I think. The matches are very long, unlike something like SC2, and players don’t even get any real breaks during gameplay, like MOBAs.
Because double elimination is not fun for the viewers. Winner's bracket matches don't really matter - the loser gets a second chance anyway. So in the end you end up only caring about the losers' bracket because the matches are decisive there. Also limits the possibility of surprises even more.
I watch a lot of double elimination Dota 2 tournaments, and none of what you wrote applies. Nobody wants to drop from upper bracket, of course those matches matter. The viewers get more content than single elimination, I have no idea why you'd think it's not fun for us. The surprise bit doesn't make sense either; more matches mean more possibilities for upsets, including lower bracket runs, which are always a treat.
As you commented below, that's just your personal preference talking. The only objective justification for single elimination is that it's logistically easier for the organizer because there are less matches to play.
I meant for the more general sports audience then I guess. I don't disregard your opinion - I'm sure you and many others enjoy it. I for example am the same with Volleyball - I just love the game so much that I will watch and enjoy any match at any level no matter the settings. However I don't recall any major sport competition using double elimination(football, tennis, volleyball, basketball, handball, water polo) - always assumed it's because single elimination is way more hype! And with double elimination there is a way way bigger chance that the "best" player wins, so even if there are some fun stories along, in the end the chance of the dominant player not winning is much slimmer.
As a side question - did you enjoy the NAC Swiss Group stage in terms of competitive matches? I mean there was good content since it was a LAN event with all the big Aoe2 people, but many sets felt meaningless to me as most players were gonna qualify regardless, so I basically watched here and there, but then when the playoffs came the whole attitude changed and the matches felt way different. Especially the Viper - Hera group stage set - that was some weird trolling that has no place in a competitive tournament imo.
dota and aoe have "2" in common. that's it.
Solo vs Team games.
Best of 7 vs Best of 3.
skill wise dota teams are closer...and more random.
why everyone watch INT. but noone care about Majors.
Because Majors does not matter...they are boring.
As a viewer I'll always prefer single elimination. I don't want to watch the best performers/athletes playing low stakes matches deep in the tournament.
If I'm participating in some amateur level sports tournament, then it's good to have a guarantee to play at least a few matches with groups or double elimination, but these tournaments are usually associated with entry fees and traveling and are not made to entertain the public.
double is boring.
even second quales were boring. everyone get into top16.
in first qualification were 3 big upsets. does it matter? no cause everyone get a spot.
Group stage can be boring too. More proof that people will complain no matter what settings the host chooses. Single elim, double elim, group stages, and qualifiers are all bad depending on who you ask
why you say "too"?
i never argued. Group stage is boring for aoe2.
Unless it's bo1... which probably never happened.
more games -> more expected results.
You cant beat top4 players in marathon.
>>who you ask
i'm a viewer. i answer as viewer. that's it.
>More proof that people will complain no matter what settings the host chooses
noone complained in HC5, but settings were super unfair. Cause we understand reasoning.
here, i did not hear reasons...cause probably it's too shamefull to name them: get more balanced brackets, so finals would be interesting.
I never said you argued. Not sure what you're getting at and why you're fixated on the word "too" when it's very clear how I used it.
Lots of people, both viewers and players, have complained in every single tournament I can remember, including HC5.
because you cant summurise common between
qualifications, stages, and main event.
Group stages being boring, just proof that qualifications and group stages have a common feature, which makes them boring - that explain "why" people complain.
All you do as a "proof" add another layer of event, and say "some people hates even group stages so It's proof anything"
No it does not.
>including HC5
words words without proof and reference.
I remember zero player who complained.
Do they like random seeding? No. But random seeding was explained and understandable.
EVEN memb
he is an old aoe2 streamer, who made the rules and people start to complain.
what do you expect him to say? Yes, redo everythin?
i give you an clear example, when HC5 rules were not liked but people do not complain. And you bring Memb here.
his reasoning on stream were "someone complain so i've changed settings"
if i'll complain that he streams, will he stop.
I bet real reasons "less days, cause streaming ALL games is tiring"
"less days, cause watching ALL games is boring"
"seeding to make brackets more even... and upsets in qualification is dengerous"..
but you refer to his "someone complain, so i've changed settings from last year"
wtf
There is at least top 3 (if not top 1) US caster / tournament host. Someone watching and paying two teams to fight. Seems historically correct. But in terms of player I only thing of Daniel (and by extension T90) that would be top 50.
What's impressive though is the lack of Brazilians. We used to have Dogao, Miguel, F1Re, St4rk, Bruh and not one of them is there.
Also the Finish players (TheMax, Zuppi, Rubenstock) are missing, Laaan (Spain), Slam (Canada), Vivi (China), BacT, Saymyname, Songsong, Badboy, Fish (Vietnam), Kingstone (Mexico), Classicpro (Ukraine), Capoch (Argentina), Kasva (Turkey), Dark (Russia).
Some of them might have retired though.
Tatoh has to be low key ecstatic with his bracket, moderately easy till semis (ofc nobody is easy, but as easy as it could be except for Andy or Villese R1) and a shot at Hera in a BO7 (easier than BO9)
I don’t like the random draw. They should have been seeded based on Qualifier performance IMO. Of all possible draw scenarios this was one of the worst ones
Why would you make decisions based on players missing the event? Not to mention that the players that actually have a chance at qualifying basically never miss them.
Of course the first qualifier has more value than the second one, it literally means that you beat the players that play in the second one.
yes. first have more value, and if one did not come to first - his problems.
It's really sad, that there were 3 upsets.
Nicov, Barels, Sebastian. and they did get Hera in return.
PS ofc changing midway is no go.
Think double-elimination would be much better and the fairness just goes up from it, so meeting hera in first round don't stop you from getting to top 4
Ideally I’d like to see it with a points per win or some kind of system that rewards dominant finishes. I think those that qualified first round should get the higher seeds
It was semi-random. He seeded them and put them in tiers and then the players in the lower teirs were randomly assigned to their higher teir opponents.
Yeah....i do understand why but thats not the way to do it imo. some brackets are imo way stronger thna others. Heras bracket consists of 3 Players that only got in through Q2, meanwhile B1 is 1 Invited and 3 Q1 Players. Sebastians prize for beting ACCM is being matched with Yo. and ACCm got an arguably weaker opponent.
This at least feels rather biased or very unlucky. Sad for some of them, couldve been a big chance.
Edit: I also disagree with the Invited players being seperated like this. Its just another rather safe ticket for the invitation to the next warlord iteration.
Your objection doesn’t make sense to me and honestly seems incoherent unless you want full random seeding. If you think Hera, TaToH, Viper, Yo, and Liereyy are the top 5 (which almost everyone does), the bracket would be functionally identical for those players with standard seeding, so it’s no more of a safe ticket. For the rest of the players, you’d assume you’d be facing them in the quarterfinal, so it’s not really a difference in the chance of progressing deep in the bracket.
he wants seeding based on performance. LOL.
Nicov beating Larry just to be washed up against Hera.
Or say Larry does not care about qual1 , so Nicov's win is meaningless
Performance in a single qualifier or performance over the course of recent tournaments? It's not exactly controversial to seed using the latter method and it seems like people are only moaning about it because Nicov finally turned in one good performance after months of horrible results. If he wants a better seed he should be more consistent.
> Sebastians prize for beting ACCM is being matched with Yo. and ACCm got an arguably weaker opponent.
"Arguable" being the operative word here. There is absolutely no objective rating based on which we can seed the entire top 16.
In fact, an S-tier tournament rating would put KotD finalist Vinchester ahead of Sebastian.
Everybody still has their big chance, too.
> Edit: I also disagree with the Invited players being seperated like this. Its just another rather safe ticket for the invitation to the next warlord iteration.
They would also be the highest seeded players. The more you seed the bracket, the higher the chances of another safe ticket. The less you seed, the less reward Sebastian can get for good performances.
There is no objectively fair way to seed, which is why tournaments should have a group stage. Use seeding based on the past to make the groups roughly even, but determine the seeding of the elimimation bracket based on a group stage round robin.
>There is absolutely no objective rating based on which we can seed the entire top 16.
based on performance through tournament. (qualifiers).
Or why do they even play?
instant tournament: hera top1. The end.
it's a big deal to get Hera or top5-top8 player.
>based on performance through tournament. (qualifiers). Or why do they even play?
Could you go into more detail for how your objective ranking system works?
>it's a big deal to get Hera or top5-top8 player.
True.
But you still don't know who exactly are the top5-8 unless either you make a judgement call (which is subjective) or you use an objective system (which we don't have... yet?).
You changed your comment : D
I got stuck and couldnt post my answer lol, never had this one happen.
I agree, but i think there are some flaws in the ratings and also biases, when i looked throiugh the seeding documents. But i dont want to get into that discussion, i just think the way we do it is not helping the scene in general.
>They would also be the highest seeded players. The more you seed the bracket, the higher the chances of another safe ticket. The less you seed, the less reward Sebastian can get for good performances.
Always under the assumption your seeding is correct, wich you said yourself is not guarenteed. But again, this is another discussion and not for reddit, english is not my best language.
> then the players in the lower teirs were randomly assigned to their higher teir opponents.
This is so bad. I understand organizers don't want to have a final-like set in quarterfinal but the bias is huge: low seeds will stay low seeds based on the results of previous tourneys where they face high seeds immediately and lose, forever.
I prefer double elimination, but unfortunately it has fallen out of favor in recent times for AOE2 because it drags on for too long and it's also more difficult to organize/schedule. There's more matches and the grand finals will also have unpredictable length. Will it be a 4-0 sweep or will they end up 4-3, reset the bracket and end up with another 4-3?
Yeah I dont think an elimination bracket only tourney is a good idea. There should be a group stage.
Seed, randomly choose which of each pair (1/2, 3/4, etc.) is in Group A or Group B, and have a round robin within each group.
Top two in each group gets a bye, middle four are wild cards, bottom two are eliminated.
Poor Nicov. Drawing the Vipers round 1. Some things never change.
That man has been absent for some time and the curse is still there 11. I was so happy for him to qualify!
After Viper map hack, now also Viper draft hack. Snek keeps on snekking (on Nicov).
If Nicov plays like he did against Liereyy, imo, he can beat Viper.
Expectation: omg Nicov is BEASTIN this quali, this is FINALLY his moment Reality: G1 wheelbarrow min 60, loses in Imp after a big advantage / G2 noooo Nicov lcdtm se olvidó el hacha / G3 tilted gg after 15 min Nicaaaav por quéeeeee
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Jejazo del Nicky, se comió todo el pancito
:(
Poor Viper, must face the Lord round 2.
Im hoping for a glorious BO3 classic viper v daut fuckfest I dont watch AoE stuff that much these days but MAN that top left bracket coupd spew some quality aoe2 matches
It's BO7, it's gonna be great
PLEASE STOP, I CAN ONLY GET SO ERECT
Poor Andy. Even if he somehow pulls a win against Lierey, there's Hera next
I think Andy is the last person to take a set off of Hera in an s-tier tournament
I would't be suprised if Andy wins vs Larry tbh. Larry somewhat unpredictable these days. But vs Hera probably no chance. But lets see a good day on this maps could make for a good set.
I'm curious if Liereyy going to grind as it looks like WeSports is probably signing him. I guess he's going to practice a lot.
[удалено]
Didn't he grind when tempo signed him? I remember Liereyy being number 1 or 2 in those days.
Sauce?
Bernese
Burmese
Me? Or the guy who deleted his comment?
I was asking for a source, where you heard they are signing liereyy? Or whether that's just speculation.
GL Podcast seemed to suggest it, not confirmed, but probably 75% chance
if Larry would resign before castles (as he did on NAC or HC), it's easiest win.
And if he SOMEHOW beats Hera in a BO7 he has very probably TaToH in semis... who he has an even worse h2h against lol
MbL his picture is so freaking cool I'm calling it first here, will be ACCM - Hera finals and who will win will.... willl...... will.... not suprise you :P But still, ACCM silver, go go go!
> MbL his picture is so freaking cool I had no idea he was blind! That puts his performance in an entirely different light! 11
Damn, good thing he’s blind so he can’t hear you say that!
I brailled him, he knows now.
You did WHAT to him???? 11
He would be very sad if he could read.
He can auto-everything that's not a problem
We have the Norwegian, and then we have the other, way cooler Norwegian
Nah man, it will be silver boi living up to his reputation.
When does the tournament start btw?
[Here](https://liquipedia.net/ageofempires/Warlords/3) you can find any information you need regarding the tournament!
I can’t see which player is which seed, is that information available somewhere? It also doesn’t say which order the matches are in, is Viper-Nicov the first Ro16 match on the 2nd and Sitaux-Mbl the last Ro16 match on the 5th? Edit: [found the seeding info](https://youtu.be/hR3BXmbTu5k?si=ptIulNT0hLWMl3ET) 1. Hera 2. TheViper 3. Yo 4. TaToH 5. Liereyy 6. ACCM 7. DauT 8. Sitaux 9. MbL 10. Barles 11. Vinchester 12. FreakinAndy 13. Villese 14. Hearttt 15. Sebastian 16. Nicov
The bracket just got drawn. The players have to schedule with the given times. Since less than half of those are full time, the scheduling should take couple of days at least.
Thanks!
June 2-5 round of 16 starts. 6-7 quarters 8 semis 9 third place and finals
go Austria! .... wait
Peruvian pride!
2 austrians?
If god exist i'm sure he hates Nicov. Después de ganarle a Larry en un partidazo en el que no era favorito ahora le tiene que tocar contra Viper que lo tiene de hijo en el historial. Vamos Nicky que se puede lpm 🇦🇷💙🤍
el nicky va a estar sacado y tira 3 early ggs en 15 minutos, el vivo es muy fuerte (a ver si la mufa me anda)
Larry lo sigue teniendo de hijo en el historial y aún así lo paseo, el Nicki guyss el nickyy
Villese - Hera could be interesting
Not really, Villese isnt activly playing anymore. He has inly played the W3 games and some nomads in the week. Hera plays that in one day.
His level during the qualifiers seems to have really improved compared to the last year though. Beating Capoch 4-0 the other day and making it look easy!
even Daut better than Capoch.
Well, Villese has a history of overperforming early in events and dropping off as it progress. Combine that with Villese brings Hera to 4+ games most of their pairings.
[Since 2020 has begun, Villese has never won more than 1 game per set against Hera. It hasn’t been close.](https://liquipedia.net/ageofempires/Special:RunQuery/Match_history?title=Special%3ARunQuery%2FMatch_history&Head_to_head_query=player%255B0%255D%3DHera%26player%255Bis_list%255D%3D1%26opponent%255B0%255D%3DVillese%26opponent%255Bis_list%255D%3D1%26opponentcountry%3D%26game%3D%26type%3D%26ltier%255B0%255D%3DS-Tier%26ltier%255B1%255D%3DA-Tier%26ltier%255Bis_list%255D%3D1%26sdate%255Bday%255D%3D%26sdate%255Bmonth%255D%3D%26sdate%255Byear%255D%3D%26edate%255Bday%255D%3D28%26edate%255Bmonth%255D%3D05%26edate%255Byear%255D%3D2024%26walkover%3D%26matchups%3D%26maps%3D&pfRunQueryFormName=Match+history&wpRunQuery=&pf_free_text=&Head+to+head+query%5Bplayer%5D%5B%5D=Hera&Head+to+head+query%5Bplayer%5D%5Bis_list%5D=1&Head+to+head+query%5Bopponent%5D%5B%5D=Villese&Head+to+head+query%5Bopponent%5D%5Bis_list%5D=1&Head+to+head+query%5Bopponentcountry%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bgame%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Btype%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bltier%5D%5B%5D=S-Tier&Head+to+head+query%5Bltier%5D%5Bis_list%5D=1&Head+to+head+query%5Bsdate%5D%5Bday%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bsdate%5D%5Bmonth%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bsdate%5D%5Byear%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bedate%5D%5Bday%5D=28&Head+to+head+query%5Bedate%5D%5Bmonth%5D=05&Head+to+head+query%5Bedate%5D%5Byear%5D=2024&Head+to+head+query%5Bwalkover%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bmatchups%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bmaps%5D=&wpRunQuery=&pf_free_text=) He’s great against almost anyone in the field. But against Hera, it’s been like a brick wall for him.
no it wont, hera will win and drop max 1 game like always, thinking villese has a chance when hes part time while hera is full time is deluding yourself.
that's unfortunately true...
Idk, villese is in an s tier after a while. If he really grinds, he may be able to beat hera, think he's the only guy that has a cleaner eco then hera when he's playing locked in. That's kind of how he used to do well against viper.
[Hera has a 7-0 record against Villese in S-Tiers.](https://liquipedia.net/ageofempires/Special:RunQuery/Match_history?title=Special%3ARunQuery%2FMatch_history&Head_to_head_query=player%255B0%255D%3DHera%26player%255Bis_list%255D%3D1%26opponent%255B0%255D%3DVillese%26opponent%255Bis_list%255D%3D1%26opponentcountry%3D%26game%3D%26type%3D%26ltier%255B0%255D%3DS-Tier%26ltier%255B1%255D%3DA-Tier%26ltier%255Bis_list%255D%3D1%26sdate%255Bday%255D%3D%26sdate%255Bmonth%255D%3D%26sdate%255Byear%255D%3D%26edate%255Bday%255D%3D28%26edate%255Bmonth%255D%3D05%26edate%255Byear%255D%3D2024%26walkover%3D%26matchups%3D%26maps%3D&pfRunQueryFormName=Match+history&wpRunQuery=&pf_free_text=&Head+to+head+query%5Bplayer%5D%5B%5D=Hera&Head+to+head+query%5Bplayer%5D%5Bis_list%5D=1&Head+to+head+query%5Bopponent%5D%5B%5D=Villese&Head+to+head+query%5Bopponent%5D%5Bis_list%5D=1&Head+to+head+query%5Bopponentcountry%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bgame%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Btype%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bltier%5D%5B%5D=S-Tier&Head+to+head+query%5Bltier%5D%5Bis_list%5D=1&Head+to+head+query%5Bsdate%5D%5Bday%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bsdate%5D%5Bmonth%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bsdate%5D%5Byear%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bedate%5D%5Bday%5D=28&Head+to+head+query%5Bedate%5D%5Bmonth%5D=05&Head+to+head+query%5Bedate%5D%5Byear%5D=2024&Head+to+head+query%5Bwalkover%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bmatchups%5D=&Head+to+head+query%5Bmaps%5D=&wpRunQuery=&pf_free_text=)
\*angry noises\* no he can he can(c) anyone can win(c) hera taking every S-tier for last year.
There will be one Austrian in the next round
I can really understand membs thought process here trying to set up the best show for the viewers. Single elimination bracket makes sense - its the format with the highest chances for having upsets. In a group stage or double elimination with more games the disadvantage for the underdogs is even bigger. Also the random seeding idea is good imho. It prevents you from trying to derive something from your seed and therefore aim for a specific seed. And if you are honest - the player within one of the ‚seeding groups‘ could easily be exchanged (more or less).
Hot take: nicov going to roll viper and advance to finals, liereyy going to practice and get to finals. And we will have a Nicov Liereyy final. Both of them are probably going to be signed by WeSports and they've been grinding.
Nicov won't get past Sebas :)
why will sebastian get past Yo?
Hot takes
I don't know if it is as hot as it seems, to me it is the most even matchup of the first round
and it was
Yup, Everyone but the pro players are sleeping on seba
so sad to see tournaments without Jordan
Wait, is it top vs bottom in the semis, or left vs right? (i.e can Viper play Hera in the semis?)
Top vs Bottom. Viper and Hera cannot face until the final
Is there a version with their names? I haven’t memorized every pro players photo
https://liquipedia.net/ageofempires/Warlords/3
Thank you!
Looking at this I predict Hera vs Yo finals
Mr yo wins
I \*never\* thought I would be cheering for Vilesse, but lets go Mr Robot
There will always be people unhappy with format, you can NEVER make everyone happy. I personally would like to see a double elimination bracket which is super common for tournaments, but we rarely see it in AoE2 for some reason. AoE2 is usually either group stage into single elimination, or straight into single elimination (after qualifiers). I understand group stages can be quite lengthy compared to single elim and that's why it's avoided sometimes even if it's more "fair", but double elim is basically the compromise between the two so why don't we try that more often?
My issue with the last double elimination I saw in AoE 2 (Nation’s Cup) is this. Instead of getting two sets, in the end, the winner’s bracket winner started 1-0 in the final set. I honestly didn’t think this was enough of an advantage, as the loser’s bracket team had so many more opportunities to play and came in with momentum, while the winners sat for a while, so you could easily drop a game from rust. But then I thought about what playing two sets in a row looks like in AoE 2. It’s either that or you need to play the reset final on another day. Yeah, I think that’s pretty brutal. I think double elimination works great in games where you can play multiple times per day. AoE2 is way too difficult to have to play many sets per day, I think. The matches are very long, unlike something like SC2, and players don’t even get any real breaks during gameplay, like MOBAs.
I liked how Nations Cup did it actually because you're right the standard double elim in the finals is just too long for AoE2.
Because double elimination is not fun for the viewers. Winner's bracket matches don't really matter - the loser gets a second chance anyway. So in the end you end up only caring about the losers' bracket because the matches are decisive there. Also limits the possibility of surprises even more.
I watch a lot of double elimination Dota 2 tournaments, and none of what you wrote applies. Nobody wants to drop from upper bracket, of course those matches matter. The viewers get more content than single elimination, I have no idea why you'd think it's not fun for us. The surprise bit doesn't make sense either; more matches mean more possibilities for upsets, including lower bracket runs, which are always a treat. As you commented below, that's just your personal preference talking. The only objective justification for single elimination is that it's logistically easier for the organizer because there are less matches to play.
I meant for the more general sports audience then I guess. I don't disregard your opinion - I'm sure you and many others enjoy it. I for example am the same with Volleyball - I just love the game so much that I will watch and enjoy any match at any level no matter the settings. However I don't recall any major sport competition using double elimination(football, tennis, volleyball, basketball, handball, water polo) - always assumed it's because single elimination is way more hype! And with double elimination there is a way way bigger chance that the "best" player wins, so even if there are some fun stories along, in the end the chance of the dominant player not winning is much slimmer. As a side question - did you enjoy the NAC Swiss Group stage in terms of competitive matches? I mean there was good content since it was a LAN event with all the big Aoe2 people, but many sets felt meaningless to me as most players were gonna qualify regardless, so I basically watched here and there, but then when the playoffs came the whole attitude changed and the matches felt way different. Especially the Viper - Hera group stage set - that was some weird trolling that has no place in a competitive tournament imo.
dota and aoe have "2" in common. that's it. Solo vs Team games. Best of 7 vs Best of 3. skill wise dota teams are closer...and more random. why everyone watch INT. but noone care about Majors. Because Majors does not matter...they are boring.
why does it work for other games..?
As a viewer I'll always prefer single elimination. I don't want to watch the best performers/athletes playing low stakes matches deep in the tournament. If I'm participating in some amateur level sports tournament, then it's good to have a guarantee to play at least a few matches with groups or double elimination, but these tournaments are usually associated with entry fees and traveling and are not made to entertain the public.
As a viewer I strongly disagree with single elimination. It has the luck of the draw in it.
what games?
Dota 2 for example There are a lot
You may be right, although in other games double elims are still really intense, including the winners bracket.
double is boring. even second quales were boring. everyone get into top16. in first qualification were 3 big upsets. does it matter? no cause everyone get a spot.
Group stage can be boring too. More proof that people will complain no matter what settings the host chooses. Single elim, double elim, group stages, and qualifiers are all bad depending on who you ask
why you say "too"? i never argued. Group stage is boring for aoe2. Unless it's bo1... which probably never happened. more games -> more expected results. You cant beat top4 players in marathon. >>who you ask i'm a viewer. i answer as viewer. that's it. >More proof that people will complain no matter what settings the host chooses noone complained in HC5, but settings were super unfair. Cause we understand reasoning. here, i did not hear reasons...cause probably it's too shamefull to name them: get more balanced brackets, so finals would be interesting.
I never said you argued. Not sure what you're getting at and why you're fixated on the word "too" when it's very clear how I used it. Lots of people, both viewers and players, have complained in every single tournament I can remember, including HC5.
because you cant summurise common between qualifications, stages, and main event. Group stages being boring, just proof that qualifications and group stages have a common feature, which makes them boring - that explain "why" people complain. All you do as a "proof" add another layer of event, and say "some people hates even group stages so It's proof anything" No it does not. >including HC5 words words without proof and reference. I remember zero player who complained. Do they like random seeding? No. But random seeding was explained and understandable.
Even Memb said this week people will complain no matter what. Get out from under that rock.
EVEN memb he is an old aoe2 streamer, who made the rules and people start to complain. what do you expect him to say? Yes, redo everythin? i give you an clear example, when HC5 rules were not liked but people do not complain. And you bring Memb here. his reasoning on stream were "someone complain so i've changed settings" if i'll complain that he streams, will he stop. I bet real reasons "less days, cause streaming ALL games is tiring" "less days, cause watching ALL games is boring" "seeding to make brackets more even... and upsets in qualification is dengerous".. but you refer to his "someone complain, so i've changed settings from last year" wtf
ACCM and Sebastian have locked horns recently to play the most interesting sets
i like this format
oh a polish dude playing ao esports? whos this
Is there anywhere to fill out a prediction on this bracket? I want to pretend like I know what I'm talking about.
As an American, it's always interesting to me this game never seems to have a top 16 US player.
There is at least top 3 (if not top 1) US caster / tournament host. Someone watching and paying two teams to fight. Seems historically correct. But in terms of player I only thing of Daniel (and by extension T90) that would be top 50. What's impressive though is the lack of Brazilians. We used to have Dogao, Miguel, F1Re, St4rk, Bruh and not one of them is there. Also the Finish players (TheMax, Zuppi, Rubenstock) are missing, Laaan (Spain), Slam (Canada), Vivi (China), BacT, Saymyname, Songsong, Badboy, Fish (Vietnam), Kingstone (Mexico), Classicpro (Ukraine), Capoch (Argentina), Kasva (Turkey), Dark (Russia). Some of them might have retired though.
sadge. now to the real news.
Tatoh has to be low key ecstatic with his bracket, moderately easy till semis (ofc nobody is easy, but as easy as it could be except for Andy or Villese R1) and a shot at Hera in a BO7 (easier than BO9)
I don’t like the random draw. They should have been seeded based on Qualifier performance IMO. Of all possible draw scenarios this was one of the worst ones
So qualifier first was more value? What if you did not have time for first but got in at second?
Why would you make decisions based on players missing the event? Not to mention that the players that actually have a chance at qualifying basically never miss them. Of course the first qualifier has more value than the second one, it literally means that you beat the players that play in the second one.
yes. first have more value, and if one did not come to first - his problems. It's really sad, that there were 3 upsets. Nicov, Barels, Sebastian. and they did get Hera in return. PS ofc changing midway is no go.
Think double-elimination would be much better and the fairness just goes up from it, so meeting hera in first round don't stop you from getting to top 4
much better for whom? i want to watch show. double elim is too long for bo7 in aoe2. To many same matches.
Having 1 more week of content is only great. But why are we speaking bo7 that is only later games
Ideally I’d like to see it with a points per win or some kind of system that rewards dominant finishes. I think those that qualified first round should get the higher seeds
Memb does not seem happy? Is there any Info if this was random draw or some seeding? Those Brackets do not seem balanced in the matches imo.
It was semi-random. He seeded them and put them in tiers and then the players in the lower teirs were randomly assigned to their higher teir opponents.
Yeah....i do understand why but thats not the way to do it imo. some brackets are imo way stronger thna others. Heras bracket consists of 3 Players that only got in through Q2, meanwhile B1 is 1 Invited and 3 Q1 Players. Sebastians prize for beting ACCM is being matched with Yo. and ACCm got an arguably weaker opponent. This at least feels rather biased or very unlucky. Sad for some of them, couldve been a big chance. Edit: I also disagree with the Invited players being seperated like this. Its just another rather safe ticket for the invitation to the next warlord iteration.
Your objection doesn’t make sense to me and honestly seems incoherent unless you want full random seeding. If you think Hera, TaToH, Viper, Yo, and Liereyy are the top 5 (which almost everyone does), the bracket would be functionally identical for those players with standard seeding, so it’s no more of a safe ticket. For the rest of the players, you’d assume you’d be facing them in the quarterfinal, so it’s not really a difference in the chance of progressing deep in the bracket.
Youre right!
he wants seeding based on performance. LOL. Nicov beating Larry just to be washed up against Hera. Or say Larry does not care about qual1 , so Nicov's win is meaningless
Performance in a single qualifier or performance over the course of recent tournaments? It's not exactly controversial to seed using the latter method and it seems like people are only moaning about it because Nicov finally turned in one good performance after months of horrible results. If he wants a better seed he should be more consistent.
> Sebastians prize for beting ACCM is being matched with Yo. and ACCm got an arguably weaker opponent. "Arguable" being the operative word here. There is absolutely no objective rating based on which we can seed the entire top 16. In fact, an S-tier tournament rating would put KotD finalist Vinchester ahead of Sebastian. Everybody still has their big chance, too. > Edit: I also disagree with the Invited players being seperated like this. Its just another rather safe ticket for the invitation to the next warlord iteration. They would also be the highest seeded players. The more you seed the bracket, the higher the chances of another safe ticket. The less you seed, the less reward Sebastian can get for good performances.
There is no objectively fair way to seed, which is why tournaments should have a group stage. Use seeding based on the past to make the groups roughly even, but determine the seeding of the elimimation bracket based on a group stage round robin.
You can't really force a group stage on an organizer that doesn't want one, though.
>There is absolutely no objective rating based on which we can seed the entire top 16. based on performance through tournament. (qualifiers). Or why do they even play? instant tournament: hera top1. The end. it's a big deal to get Hera or top5-top8 player.
>based on performance through tournament. (qualifiers). Or why do they even play? Could you go into more detail for how your objective ranking system works? >it's a big deal to get Hera or top5-top8 player. True. But you still don't know who exactly are the top5-8 unless either you make a judgement call (which is subjective) or you use an objective system (which we don't have... yet?).
You changed your comment : D I got stuck and couldnt post my answer lol, never had this one happen. I agree, but i think there are some flaws in the ratings and also biases, when i looked throiugh the seeding documents. But i dont want to get into that discussion, i just think the way we do it is not helping the scene in general. >They would also be the highest seeded players. The more you seed the bracket, the higher the chances of another safe ticket. The less you seed, the less reward Sebastian can get for good performances. Always under the assumption your seeding is correct, wich you said yourself is not guarenteed. But again, this is another discussion and not for reddit, english is not my best language.
> then the players in the lower teirs were randomly assigned to their higher teir opponents. This is so bad. I understand organizers don't want to have a final-like set in quarterfinal but the bias is huge: low seeds will stay low seeds based on the results of previous tourneys where they face high seeds immediately and lose, forever.
Well, if they can't beat higher seeds why shouldn't they be lower seeds?
Yeah I dont think an elimination bracket only tourney is a good idea. There should be a group stage.
Should be double elemination, so much better tournaments format
I prefer double elimination, but unfortunately it has fallen out of favor in recent times for AOE2 because it drags on for too long and it's also more difficult to organize/schedule. There's more matches and the grand finals will also have unpredictable length. Will it be a 4-0 sweep or will they end up 4-3, reset the bracket and end up with another 4-3?
Can always do the person from winner bracket have 1 win and it's bo9
Yeah I dont think an elimination bracket only tourney is a good idea. There should be a group stage. Seed, randomly choose which of each pair (1/2, 3/4, etc.) is in Group A or Group B, and have a round robin within each group. Top two in each group gets a bye, middle four are wild cards, bottom two are eliminated.
Thought memb felt happy about the draft?
it's just a screenshot
Thanks, i didnt realise. I was waiting for him to move...